963: The Return Of Saturn, The Future Is Good, More Cars Than Drivers

Love them or hate them. Everyone has an opinion on cars. But we believe we're all one great car away from a car enthusiast. So we're here to help you find a car you love. And let it take us to everything else in life. I'm Todd. I'm Paul. And this is the everyday driver car debate. Happy Friday everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. We are excited to be back talking with you guys about all of the car madness that is our life. And we just appreciate you guys being with us. If you haven't rated the podcast that does help us

or you didn't know whatever platform you're listening to it with. And we would love to get that rating and review because that helps more people find it consistently. When new people write us, they say they were looking for a car podcast. And they just looked up the list of what are good car podcasts. And we're listed because you guys rate it. So thank you so much. We have a few updates on the Nissan and Honda merger. Mitsanda, it is going to be Mitsanda if this news is right. I think so. They want no part of Renault. I was hoping to add Mitsando.

And they don't want Renault. They don't want Renault. What is that messy agreement going to look like? Separate those all out because the problem is Renault owns more than a third of Nissan. Yes. I know how do you buy all of Nissan and still make Renault happy. And I don't think Renault's gotten what they've needed or what they were promised out of the deal with Nissan. Yeah, I don't know what that deal looked like. Yeah, it hasn't been good. Yeah, I still maintain there's going to be a lot of bad engineering. Everything that's going to drive

the same look different, but drive the same is is our motto or here at Mitsanda, but especially with these EV platforms. We're seeing that already you cross brands and things drive the same. Yeah, right now you've got the Chevy blazer the Cadillac ionic and the Honda Pro log. Oh, and also the new Acura ZDX all essentially the same same platform. Our friend Jordan had out of spec who shot with us sometimes made a comment that he's figured out. You may have heard already that GM has dropped Apple CarPlay and gone with all Google because they want to

own data. Our friend Jordan has figured out how to get Apple CarPlay in a GM product. You buy the Honda. You buy the Pro log and it still has Apple CarPlay, even though it's a GM product. I love this. It's all work around, but it's all just tech at this point. Maybe they can call it Saturn because I think they're an outer space for that's excellent. I mean, at least that would have some like cash. No, that's the wrong word. It's the wrong word, but it, but it is the way to get it to make it seem space like it's not cash. It would be recognizable. There you go. That would be like, oh,

yeah, that's what I'll go into my film world and say Saturn is pre-established IP. That's true because they were all looking for partially the GM. You just you just want to have people have heard about it before pre-established IP is gold.

I mean, Midsand is going to be an uphill climb. But Saturn, we got you covered. I know that name. They're cheap, not that well built and made out of top wears. So yeah, it's only take one. I will absolutely push a shopping cart into the side of that. Why not? Other bits of news. Actually, good news on the enthusiasts side. You've joked for a while, Paul, because people have been saying save the manual save the manual save the manual and you've started saying in our last few reviews. Haven't we done this now? Did we do it? Aren't they safe? I mean, it feels like we are. Actually, motor one is reporting.

I've seen this information lots of places,

but they gave a really handy list here,

talking about the top 10 selling manual cars in 2024.

This chart I have in front of me shows both the take rate

and the number sold, the Honda Civic,

7% of buyers did manual transmissions.

That was over 17,000 total cars.

I'm gonna jump down here to number four,

the Toyota GR86, 53% of people got the manual,

that equals 6,000 cars, the Tacoma.

I find it funny that car is even available in a manual.

You gotta get the base, base, base, base version, okay?

Is there one below the base?

Three percent of buyers.

There was a lot of fanfare for the new manual Tacoma.

We talked about it as well,

because I couldn't believe they were gonna do it.

Three percent of buyers, that's 5,700 cars.

The Miata is 70% of buyers.

That's really cool.

5,700 cars from the Miata, the GR Corolla,

I shouldn't be on this list,

because it was only offered in manual until late at the end

of last year, so guess what, 97% were manual.

Of course they were, they didn't sell an automatic yet.

That's a little bit of a weird thing.

And then the BRZ is interesting.

The BRZ, 77, almost 78% of buyers did manual,

which is more than the 53% of GR86s,

but the key thing is that the BRZ doesn't sell very well.

That's only 2,600 cars.

But this is the top 10 or so.

I've only done the high points,

but what I like here is manuals exist,

and people are buying them.

And when the percentage is anything over 40%,

like here's the thing, the Golf R,

which is no longer gonna have a manual,

the Golf GTI, 41%, the R, 52%,

and they're killing the manual.

You would think you would course correct.

Is it Volkswagen that we're talking about, though?

It is, you're right.

Sorry, I lost my head there for a minute.

You did lose your head.

But you know, speaking of course corrections,

we have talked about the Subaru WRX,

there isn't an STI,

even though they keep throwing STI badges on things.

That has a CVT that, okay, it's the best CVT out there,

which is a backhanded compliment, but still true.

The result is that 87% of buyers

of the Subaru WRX got a manual.

Okay, good, okay, good.

They said we're not getting anywhere near that.

It's not like non-alcoholic beer,

where it's just beer-centred water.

It's STI line.

The STI line, it's got a similar badge,

but it's not an STI.

It's not what you're expecting,

but badge looks similar, not the same at all.

We have many cool hooked on driving events,

coming your way, and the Northern California region

is kicking off with February 8th and 9th.

That is a Saturday, Sunday at Thunder Hill Raceway,

and then the following week, Saturday, February 15th,

and Sunday, February 16th, 2025,

that is at Famous Laguna Seca.

If you've never driven at Laguna Seca,

that will be the full coaching staff there.

So two weekends in a row,

one at Thunder Hill, one at Laguna Seca.

We've also got Hedge Hollow, just southeast of Kansas City.

That is the new Midwest region.

The rampant of the April.

They're ramping up April.

And then, of course, do not forget the Northeast,

big July 4th bash at Watkins Glen.

That is a three-day event.

You can find out all the information on the national schedule

at hookedondriving.com,

and then, of course, find a date all summer long

in a region near you, and we're excited

to have the entire nationwide season kickoff.

There's stuff happening year round nationwide.

More so than when we took over the company.

This coming February will be one year,

which is crazy to say.

Paul and I will be traveling, again,

quite a bit this year to lots of regions,

but I also want to remind you, talk about travel.

We have that big Coda event, May 31st, June 1st.

There will be a road signature Coda and a road trip

away from Coda, and we're going to involve you guys

in both of those details on that are coming.

Also, our pilgrimage trip that is the ring and spa

in one trip, we try to make it as accessible

and affordable as possible.

But keep in mind, you're going to Europe

and you're renting a track car.

There's no way to do this cheap, folks.

Just letting you know, it is beginner-friendly.

That is happening the last week of April,

first couple days of May registration for that.

It's going to go up soon.

We will also have a larger Europe trip that is spa,

Zandvort and Amsterdam and the ring all in one trip.

That is happening the week after July 4th, as well.

Plus, we're going to have probably two more domestic adventures

from everyday driver.

We're just starting to put those on the calendar right now.

I have so much to talk about in half of it.

I can't even let you register for.

It's so cool. Bucket list trips.

You should do every year.

Yes. Come with us.

You can find out about all these events,

all the hooked on driving events at hookedondriving.com.

We'll, of course, keep you updated

with the everyday driver pilgrimage trip

that is coming soon.

I'm very excited for that one.

It's going to be great.

The Subaru Share the Love event is on

from November 20th to January 2nd.

During this event, Subaru donates to charities

like the National Park Foundation,

helping protect over 400 national parks.

When you purchase or lease a new vehicle

during the 2025 Subaru Share the Love event,

Subaru and its retailers will make

a minimum $300 donation to charity.

Visit Subaru.com slash Share to learn more.

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Martin P is in the UK

and he claims the future is good, everyone.

Martin also is close to my heart

because he has a yellow Lotus Elise.

Now, to Martin's credit, he has one

that was made after they stopped making them in the US.

He has a series three.

He's got a really nice, great one.

But he's got a really cool garage of old things

and then he has an interesting garage

of brand new electric things.

Martin, thank you so much for writing.

Thank you for listening.

We're glad for all of our listeners in the UK

and outside of the US, there's Australia,

big shout out to Canada, Germany, UK of course

and around the world.

I know the Scandinavian countries,

there's a lot of listenership there in Europe too.

Thank you all for listening.

We really appreciate it.

Send us your emails.

Martin is talking about his wife's Volkswagen ID3 lease

that is coming to an end shortly.

It's everything she needs and likes.

He did seats and steering wheel

and having never liked cars in the 30 plus years

that they have been together,

the EV thing has been a game changer.

Isn't that interesting?

The silence, no gas to purchase.

Car play.

For Martin, he is six months into an ionic five

and lease deal.

He's seen the future.

Tell anyone who asks, it's the perfect daily.

As Todd mentioned in his shed,

I like how all the brisks call their garage the shed.

It's technically an exceed.

He has, it's very nice looking.

Really proud of you.

He's got a nice shed and cool stuff.

The 350 sport, this is the one we only see

when we go to Europe and we go to the ring

and I drool on them

because the X-EG 350 sport

is a little tiny Elise with the camera motor

as the whole ton of power.

That's now what's in my amira in the Elise.

So it's a 400 horsepower Elise, essentially,

with all the latest and greatest forties

that I'm making it long after they made it here.

Can you tell I'm drooling?

He's got a bug-eye sprite.

He's got the classic mini and a Ducati 916 and 900 SS

and an 848 track bike.

And the photos were quite juicy.

The photos were great, but what's interesting is

that's the fun stuff.

That's the, I am a petrol head.

Okay, I'm gonna go British for a second.

He has an Ionic 5-in and he thinks it's amazing.

We have a video of the Ionic 5-in coming up

a little over a week.

I cannot wait to show you that

because we had a really interesting piece

and discussion where we try to kind of place that

in the market and in our mindset

and we actually put it with Ferrari

and it will all make sense, I swear.

But it was very cool piece, that's coming.

So we have Ionic 5-in review coming

and I can say that I can agree with him

that as EVs go, there's something special going on there

with the Ionic 5-in.

But think about the contrast here.

We have the ID-3 Volkswagen, which is an appliance.

And then we have the Ionic 5-in trying to be fun.

They're both least EVs to be their daily.

That ID-3 has been perfect for her.

He loves the in, he hates to give that up.

So this is where the dilemma begins.

Sensible math says, buy the ID-thread of the lease.

Payment, the full buy-outs looks like 16 grand,

somewhere in there.

He says pretty much the used value for an identical car,

but that's no fun.

You are one of us.

Absolutely, yes.

He says enthusiast math says it would be better

to put 13 grand towards a lightly used Alpine A110.

Yes, we like that a whole lot better.

Keep in mind, not because of used Alpine A110 is 13 grand.

We're putting it toward that car,

which is probably actually costing about 55.

He said, now knew they were 80,

so he saved a bunch of money.

This is car person math right here, I love it.

All the Chris Harris reviews, all the top gear reviews

we've ever seen, it's always not to 60.

This is not to poor, not to not gonna have any money left.

But I agree with you, why buy out the ID-3

or buy another car for 15, 16 grand

when you can put that toward an Alpine A110

and everyone's happy.

The ID-3 that she has, she actually really likes it

and even the ID-4 feels too big to her.

So the concern is, the Ionic 5 in,

which I have to say this real quick,

if you look at the Ionic in any trim,

it looks like a small hatchback, it is not.

That is a much bigger car if you stand beside it

than you think when you see it in photos.

The internet claims it's an SUV.

I still think it's a hatch.

It's a hatch in right in between.

It's a hatch in look, but in scale it is bigger

than it's appeared, which is very interesting.

What he's thinking is, what if the ID-3 goes away

and since he loves the Ionic 5 in and his wife likes EVs,

what if she gets the Ionic 5 in?

And then he takes what they aren't spending on the ID-3

and puts it toward, not buy out,

toward the used Alpine A110 so far,

I am 100% with you on this, Martin.

The problem is that every now and then

she's gonna decide that the Ionic is too big for her,

which point he's saying she could take the A110 on those days.

He says the sensible choice is don't try

to make the second daily too interesting.

Simply roll over the lease to a new ID-3.

That is the sensible choice, but we are not here

to be sensible when it comes to cars.

We are here to love what we drive.

The only downside is the one they have,

the range is about 220 miles on a 58 kilowatt battery.

It's 2021, whereas the new one has about a 300 mile range

and the interior quality is what it should have been

in the first place.

It's a lot of Volkswagen products.

Very nicely put, by the way,

Martin, you just gotta be that real casual.

I like it good.

But he says the lease rollover feels like dead money

particularly for the same car.

Agreed.

You know what, dead money is a house, but we'll get there.

Talk about that later.

We will get there, yes.

If he were to continue leasing a new EV,

he would prefer the new Renault 5 EV.

It's got the cool fun factor.

It's got the optional baguette holder.

It's exciting.

But the range is the same as their existing ID3

and having researched golf-size EVs at length,

there are very few with a 300 mile range.

I'm excited to share with my findings with you, Martin.

Good, I'm excited.

She must have.

He did seats, car play of course.

While the N ticks every imaginable box,

range is not one of them.

But he says it's the next box on wheels

with echoes of 205 GTI and a daily joy ride.

So his conundrum is broken down into two categories.

A and B.

What $55,000 approximately partner-friendly daily

should partner with the Ionic 5N?

It cannot be a Porsche.

Look at that.

He says nothing against Porsche,

but he's not a Porsche guy.

That's totally fine.

I think it's a Lotus disease.

I think those of us that really love low tire

like, Porsche's are cool.

Don't want a Porsche.

I mean, I realize I own two clients,

but I own no Porsche cars.

I'm just putting it out there.

I don't count.

They don't.

The only downsides to the A110 are limited storage

and that's coming from a Lotus owner.

Which is saying a lot.

The world is warped.

Prior to the end in the past four years,

his daily's were a GR Yaris, a Julia Quad,

and a V60 Polestar, the Super and Turbocharged one.

He says they were all fun,

but he kept wanting to try something else.

Though another Quadfolio is definitely on the list

as is the Amira because they're at rock bottom

prices in the UK now,

but he doesn't think his wife will ever want to drive one.

He says an M2 is on the list, but a bit Germanic.

I think you meant Germanic, but it was spelled Germanic,

which I'd like better, which is better.

You know, you may also have meant German.

It could be Germanic.

There's that as well.

The point is, the Germanic is excellent.

The M2 is not quite right.

It's just pure fun enough.

That is fantastic.

Option B is what EV to replace the ID3 at the end of its lease

that must have 300 mile range at least

and isn't as big as the Polestar 2 or the Model Y

and isn't a new ID3.

Now, side note, they have a Ford Transit Custom

decked out for family activities

and the motorcycle transport.

So what do we get?

He also says if we get an HOD Track Day organized

at Brands Hatch, that GP circuit,

he said he would like to meet us in person.

That is an excellent idea.

He would love that.

Brands Hatch.

That would be so cool.

You need to get HOD over there.

Look, I'll put it out there, all right?

We would love for HOD to be an international brand

with Track Days under that worldwide.

The problem is, we are currently trying to figure out

nationwide first.

Okay, there are priorities here.

I feel like we've done a lot this year

and things are in a good place.

It's gonna be such a good year.

Martin, I'm diving in first for option A.

Let's review quickly.

What $55,000 partner-friendly daily should go alongside

the Ionic 5N.

It cannot be a Porsche.

It should be a Honda Civic Type R.

That's good.

That's very good, actually.

I guess the problem with that now that I'm rereading

your requirements is that it is only a manual transmission.

Yes, it'll know how partner-friendly it is,

but it is not partner-friendly.

Perfect 50 grand daily.

Yeah, as far as daily's that are also fun cars,

that's way up there.

That's a good one.

I like it.

I'm gonna pivot to my option B because I like it better.

Since you lease,

I went looking at the brand new CUPRA, Tavaskin.

It is not the VZ, the high-performance model.

It's rear-wheel drive only up to 352 miles range.

It's still part of the Volkswagen Group

because it's under the Sayot Spanish brand.

It's designed and engineered in Barcelona.

But then, Martin, I found the CUPRA born on AutoCard.co.uk.

That is their EV of the year.

The new CUPRA born,

that is AutoCard's best electric 42024.

And if you go for the middle flavor,

that is a 77 kilowatt battery

that has exactly a three-and-a-mile range, it's tiny.

And both of the CUPRA's look better than the ID3.

I couldn't find any actual wheel-based specs.

I think the CUPRA is maybe slightly smaller

than a Model Y.

Or sorry, the Tavaskin is slightly smaller.

But then there's the born, which is sweet looking.

I have to jump in here because I have to remind all of you

that Paul and I do not compare notes.

And my wild card is the CUPRA born.

It is in VZ because this is, really, Sayot CUPRA's,

ID3 chassis usage.

It is the ID3 in a different suit.

But it is.

If you get the VZ, it is rear-wheel drive

with a ton of horsepower and torque

and almost 300 miles of range.

It's the ID3 that you're looking for that Volkswagen won't give us.

It is.

And I was actually reading about it in top gear

and they were big fans of it dynamically,

specifically in the VZ, the performance trim.

They were big fans of it dynamically.

It was more mundane or dramatic.

No, it was more mundane in the lesser trims,

but they were big fans of the VZ trim.

And it is.

It is the ID3 redone as a CUPRA where it looks more interesting.

It drives better.

It was my wild card.

It's amazing that you and I dug up the exact same car

and have it on our list for Martin.

Keep going.

That's amazing.

Well, I also looked over it forward in the UK.

Their Capri meets the qualifications,

but it's kind of dumb looking.

And then I thought, you know what?

I just, I don't have time in my life

for anything but honesty.

I really don't.

We're just going to cut to the chase.

Here we go, got it.

You could consider a Prius.

And then when I went to the Honda website, Martin,

I found an EV that I didn't know existed.

It is the ENY1 that Honda is using Max Verstappen to promote.

If you go to the Honda.co.uk site,

it says, back to where it all began.

The world champion Max Verstappen got his hands

on a different type of Honda power.

He climbed behind the wheel of the ENY1 SUV.

It's also kind of dumb looking, but still, yeah.

Max has marketing obligations to fulfill.

And so it's so confusing to me is I thought that Red Bull

actually bought the remnants of the Honda engine factory

and they're actually an F1 engine manufacturer.

So they're not really using Honda engines

even though they're using all the tech.

So I don't know.

Why does he still have obligations to?

Hey, Max has got to earn his millions somewhere.

All right.

Stand here in front of a not that interesting EV

and promote it and they're trying to tie an F1 to an EV,

but it doesn't meet your requirements.

It's all bad.

If you're going to have millions and millions of me,

as many millions as he makes, every now and then,

he can stand in front of an average car.

Be like, I endorse this.

Is that in my contract?

All right.

Where do I have to stand?

Yeah.

Six inches to the left.

Are we done?

Yeah, exactly.

I got to go back to sim racing.

I'm hungry.

Yeah, exactly.

I think the born is the one you need to look at.

Don't roll it over into an ID3.

I do like the Tavaskan.

I like the name.

I think the styling is really sweet looking.

It's a car that looks interesting to go drive it.

Makes you want to get in and go experience it.

And that's what I like about it.

But the born is really great too.

And here we are.

We have not driven it, but it's getting great reviews

from all the rabbit holes we've gone down.

Yeah.

I mean, this is how far we go, Martin.

Yeah, I dive in.

I love this.

Martin, I have other stuff for you,

but I think it's fascinating that that was my

Hey, Martin, you like electric hatches

and you've enjoyed the Ionic 5 and what about this?

And I wound up exactly where Paul did,

which is fascinating.

I have to bring up some others for you real quick.

I want to say another one I think is in contention

and another car we don't get.

The Mini E doesn't work for you,

even though I like the size of it

because there's not enough range.

But the new Mini Countryman electric does work.

It's slightly larger than the Mini E

and it has about 300 miles worth of range.

And the Mini quirkiness,

and I believe it's gonna be more fun to drive

than the ID3, the problem is,

have you looked just all of you listening?

Have you looked at Mini's current lineup of cars?

While the Cooper, the classic Mini

that we all think of, the two-door Cooper

still looks okay and related to the Mini's prior.

You were talking about honesty a minute ago, Paul.

When did the Mini brand just get ugly?

They're not good looking now.

The Countryman refresh doesn't look good.

The Clubman refresh doesn't look good.

I think either of them are possibilities for you,

the Countryman or the Clubman,

as far as electrics available in the UK

that could meet your needs.

I just am looking at them going,

Mini's should be better looking than this.

They're staring at the Ford Capri,

while they were searching.

I don't know, they got all of this and weird

and I'm looking at them.

They look like, you know how in Lego, and I love Legos,

but you know when Lego gives you a,

here's a super duper kit for a super car.

And it looks okay.

Well they're dealing with bricks.

Exactly, they're dealing with bricks.

And so it's some point they can't quite work.

It looks like you built the new Mini out of Lego,

where it's like it looks like a Mini,

but it's a little too blocky

and there's some weird creases

and why does that look that way?

I can tell you why it's because they're forcing

Mini's on top of chassis that exist elsewhere

because there you go.

You've got the British flag on it,

but underneath is it a little bit too germaniac for the taste?

It is too germaniac, I love it.

So that was one of my options.

I have questions for Fun Car.

If your wife gets the Ionic 5 in,

for sheer Fun Car, I have questions because, of course,

because it's forbidden fruit,

because you already like low tie and so do I,

because I keep lusting after the A110 Alpinas

a car that is on my personal shortlist for Must Drive

and think I might want to own,

even though I don't know how that works in the country.

Anyway, I want you to get an A110.

I do.

It's interesting.

You haven't had one.

Alpha quad, a new quad.

Yes.

Get the green one.

Quad down the line somewhere, but an A110 and a short term.

I love it, but I have questions for you

because you're talking about a wife-friendly car,

spouse-friendly car that can still be pure fun for you

but is also able to be a daily.

And that's the key thing because I love my low tie.

I love the stuff you've got in your garage,

but not a lot of them are daily-friendly.

I think the A110 would be good.

In fact, apparently Gordon Murray drives an A110 as his daily.

I find that amazing.

It's the best ringing endorsement you can possibly have.

But I thought about this.

What does your wife think of the current MX-5?

Is that too small?

Because she likes small cars.

And the Miata, as far as like pure fun cars go,

is about as just universally acceptable as you can get.

I mean, yes, it's small, but since she likes small already,

we've gotten over what I can think of as the only hurdle

for the MX-5.

Because a lot of people would say the spouse would say,

well, that car's too small, but she likes small.

True.

That is so easy going.

Look, as much as I have a Ford transit.

Totally.

As much as I like the MX-5 in manual and I do,

it's got a perfectly acceptable automatic.

I wouldn't buy it in automatic,

but buy an MX-5 in-D in auto that your wife can drive.

Anytime she doesn't want to drive the Onyx-5 in,

I think she'd love it.

What does she think of the MX-5?

Holy cow, Martin, if you had an N-D Miata,

the I-5 in and your Lotus,

and we put together a track day at Brand's Hatch.

It's like, I'm not sure what I bring.

I'd love you.

Get all three there, tone behind your transit.

The entire garage is coming.

And every run group, you can drive something different.

I love this.

So I have to ask about the Miata

and then because I don't know, my other thought is,

because I know it's been hard in the UK.

What is the actual status right now in the UK

for the GR86?

I thought they'd left.

I thought they were gone, right?

Yes, they're gone.

Are you talking very few were sold?

So how many autos were sold?

What are they, how available are they used?

That is a very easy daily

that seems to check the boxes for the kind of things

you like and the kind of things your wife likes,

but I don't know how available they really are.

Because I'm wondering if people bought them

and are hoarding them,

because they only sold them for like a year.

So I wonder about that.

That's my other thought,

because I want you to give her the Ionic 5 in

and you go buy a fun car.

But we've given you options here, Martin,

and I'm very curious to hear what you thought.

I just can't believe you and I both

landed on the Cooper-Born,

and now I want to kind of want to drive one.

I totally want to drive one.

All right, Martin, I've still got to work

on option A for you.

Imagine Civic Type R next to the I5N.

That is sweet, but it's not quite there,

so I've got work to do.

All right, let us know what you end up getting

and love the photos.

EverydayDriverTV at gmail.com.

Topic Tuesday's car conclusions, car debates.

This episode is brought to you by Nature's Bounty.

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Jeremy's writing in, he's saying he wants something funnish,

but then we get a couple of sentences into this email

and he says my favorite sentence.

We're looking to buy, he and his significant other,

are looking to buy a third vehicle.

There's just two of them, we're looking to buy a third car.

This is just music to my ears.

This is what we do on this podcast.

You have more cars and you have drivers.

That's a successful car person's life right there.

And they're hoping it to be their first kind of fun-ish vehicle,

something leaning toward fun.

He currently drives a hand-me-down 2011 Ford Escape V6 Frontwheel

Drive, 215,000 miles and still doing okay.

Those lasted that long?

His did.

His wife has a 2020 Volkswagen Atlas cross-sport V6

Ford motion, it's almost as bad as Volvo

with how long that name is.

But she got it last year with about 30,000 miles on it.

They have SUVs covered.

She thinks that the next car they get,

he should be excited about it

because it's gonna be a little bit more his than hers.

She recently started a new job,

requiring her to drive a lot about 400 miles total a week.

She works two, 24 hour flight nurse shifts

and then comes home.

Wow, interesting, all right.

She's starting to put a ton of miles on the Atlas

even though the third car, like Todd said,

is more for Jeremy, she would prefer to use it

at times to drive to her job instead of taking

the high mileage escape or her newer car.

Sure, yeah.

So really, she wants it to be for you

but she's gonna drive it.

She has to have access.

He can't buy something that she's not ever gonna drive.

That's kind of fun.

Yeah, I like it, that's good.

So technically, she'll have three and Jeremy will still have zero.

Well, once you're married, what's mine is yours

and sometimes that equation works your favorite.

Sometimes it really, really does it.

Fuel mileage is not a concern, reliability is the main concern.

She would really prefer it if this next car were an automatic.

So Jeremy's looking for something fun

but still comfortable for daily and under $25,000

cooled and ventilated seats would be a plus

because it needs to be an automatic.

He would prefer the car to have a nice auto

like a ZF or a DCT.

Okay.

Now Jeremy sends us his list here

and there's a bit of a through line on the list.

If you don't quite pick up, I'll tell you at the end,

it includes a Ford Mustang GT,

fairly recent, 2015 to 2019 GT 10 speed

or the 2014 and newer Dodge challengers V8s.

Doesn't really matter what the engine size is.

Hellcat's not on here, but V8s, for sure.

Thaft is a concern with this pick.

Second generation CTSV, probably with higher miles.

A C6 Corvette, that was wife hates the interior.

Which is a problem.

The Apaniac G8 GT, Alexis ISF,

the 2013 to 2016 Audi A7 or S7, three liter or four liter.

Okay.

I'll golf bars a bit of an exception.

But the 2012, yeah.

2012 2015 Audi S4, Cadillac CTS V Sport V6 twin turbo.

And the Q50, he says, but they seem pretty boring.

That's because they are.

But in general, I know where you're going.

In general, we're talking about big engine cars.

Big engine cars and all of these cars are big.

Yes, agree, yes.

Very powerful engines, they're very fast, but they're big cars.

Yeah, they're, you see, fun-ish.

I agree, yes.

We've got to redefine our decision-making paradigm here

to talk about, they're coming out of two SUVs.

True, true.

They're talking about something's fun

because it is more dynamic than an SUV,

which is a low bar, and it has a lot of power.

But you're right, you and I,

especially coming off the last car debate, for sure,

where everything needed to be small for Martin and his wife,

this is big stuff still.

Because I was thinking that after that, for sure,

going through Martin's debate.

Jeremy is looking at a 2018

and newer Honda Accord 2.0 Sport non-CBT.

This is if he goes front-wheel drive again,

which is kind of rather not, but yeah.

Well, fair.

Accord TLX, Volkswagen GTI, Genesis Coupe 3.8 from Hyundai,

and a 370Z Nissan.

What is he missing?

Jeremy, thank you for writing.

Really appreciate you listening.

I do have some choices for you.

Starting off, with two front-wheel drive choices,

the Hyundai Veloster N with a DCT would be a lot of fun.

And you could get them for that money,

and it would be great.

I agree with it.

It's excellent.

It's one of those cars where I felt like front-wheel drive

changes over.

The Civic Type R, you don't have to caveat it

because it's front-wheel drive.

The Veloster N was the first car that I thought,

this is a true enthusiast car,

and you don't have to make any apologies.

I don't care anymore.

And it's so fun, and you just don't care through the corners.

It's just so delightful to drive.

The other was the GR Corolla with the automatic

that 8-speed direct shift.

I mean, I don't want an indirect shift.

Yeah, true.

I want the direct shift, so it's a lot out of the budget.

So, weirdly, again, because you and I do not compare notes,

GR86 automatic for Jeremy.

That's good.

I don't have that here, but that's a really good thing.

There's the rear-wheel drive, there's the light weight,

there's the fun.

It's not a lot of power, but it is great.

We've loved that car so much.

It's unlike anything on here,

and I think it ratchets it from finish to Holy Cow.

I didn't know you could have so much fun driving a car.

Based on their experience, I agree with you.

You'd wind up with a car.

I think you'd fight over that car, I bet.

With 25 grand a spend, you could find an automatic GR86.

Thank you, right.

Yeah, you would let the fights begin.

That's very good.

Jeremy, I saw the listing that Paul noted here,

and that is a lot of big stuff.

You've said fun, but most of what you've asked for

is what I would call full-size cars, a lot of four doors.

I kinda stayed in that thread even though I cannot argue

with Paul's thinking at all.

I do think it's interesting at the bottom of your list,

you threw in the Genesis Coupe 3.8 and the Nissan 370Z.

Both of those are solid choices.

They're just different than the other stuff you've got listed.

And actually, start to lean toward just get a GR86,

I think you'd be happier.

I wanna caution you, and I realize we've all had

different life experience, but I wanna caution you

on assuming that powerful is better.

This is what the Miata proves.

This is what the GR86 proves and what the Lotus proves.

That power number isn't necessarily the key.

It's the way the power works with the weight

and scale of the car.

And smaller is often much more fun.

But I'm gonna go with the stuff along lines

of what you said.

First off, I looked at your list

and I have the following ideas.

First off, why not?

I think I'm contractually obligated to say this.

An Alpha Julia.

$25,000 you can get a Julia all day long.

Just like Max has required to smile in front of the E and Y1,

if you're almost required.

You are required to mention it at least one time.

By the way, there has never been a contract

and we have never been paid by any manufacturer ever.

But if Alpha Romeo would like to send me a check

because of all of the non-contractual endorsement

I have done, I will cash that check.

Maybe with the Nintendo Intense product line up.

Oh stop.

They will want to sell more cars.

I think with the junior, they may officially lose me.

But we'll see anyway.

So Alpha Julia, $25,000 you get the Turbo 4.

But that car is good to look at.

It's wonderful dynamically.

It is a real full-sized car, but it's great to drive.

Also, Kia Stinger.

You've got some big stuff on here.

Like the challenger and the CTS Vs and the A7 and S7.

The Kia Stinger, you can find for a song.

The thing I'm concerned about on a lot of your list

is a lot of this stuff is 10 years older, older on your list.

So the Julia would be newer than that.

And so would the Kia Stinger.

That's got a really great eight speed in it.

It's got a lot of power.

It's got a lot of space.

I really like that.

You had mentioned the Pontiac G8.

You don't want the G8 because for your budget

you can get the newer, better Chevy S S in auto.

The manuals are expensive.

The manuals are like 35 to 40.

Are they really 25 for like 25?

Are they?

30 for the nicest one out there.

You want the Chevy S S S?

Hey everyone.

Yeah, exactly.

Then it blows the budget for poor Jeremy.

But anyway, no, Chevy S S is better.

Because I mentioned the Stinger,

if you want to go a little smaller

and I also mentioned the Julia, I have to say this,

the Genesis G70.

You can actually get them for 25 grand.

Now here's the problem.

Most of the ones you're going to find

are going to be the two liter turbo.

They've gone up to a 2.5 turbo now,

which Paul and I like significantly better

for the base engine, okay?

That's a 300 horsepower 2.5 liter turbo.

We prefer that engine.

Most of the ones you're going to find

for your budget are the two liter turbo,

which is okay, all right?

But what's nice is, at 25 grand,

I looked on Autotempis.

Autotempis.com slash every day,

I found some of the 3.3 liter turbos

that weren't high mile for 25 grand.

And that's the engine you do want.

Because that's the version you want in the Stinger.

That G70, with the 3.3 turbo, you would love that car.

And then I just, I'm in wild car territory

because I don't like this as much as the other things

I mentioned, but you mentioned Jeremy,

the Q50, but they seem pretty boring.

I went looking and I found out something interesting.

The only version of the Q50 you are allowed to entertain

is the Red Sport 400, with the really good engine in it,

that they ended up putting in the latest version

of the Z-Car, okay?

It's a really good engine and it gives that car

a little bit of personality.

It's a much better engine than the car around it,

which is kind of how I feel about the ISF sport as well.

But the Q50 Red Sport is out there.

You can get them for your budget, the older ones.

But here is the thing I wanted to put out

to all of us on the podcast.

Dear friend Paul, on all of you listening,

did you know they're still selling the Q50 Red Sport?

What?

There are 24 model years out there.

I thought they'd stopped that car years ago.

There's 20, 24 is out there.

The Q Infinity Q50 Red Sport, basically the same one

as they were selling in like 2018,

still around, still being sold.

2018, you mean, 2008?

No, no, they're more recent than that

for the actual Red Sport 400.

But I found 20, 24's listed and thought,

wait, they're still selling that car, dude.

That's covering your own life.

You're allowed to entertain, so there that is.

The benchmark of sedan styling, according to them,

based on their website, yes.

Crafted with you in mind.

No, it's not.

I just marketing speak, we're just going to get lost

here for a while, yeah.

It's still on their website.

I know, that's what I'm saying.

How is that car still offered, dude?

Because it's Nissan, this is why Honda wants to buy Nissan

and have them cut that out.

Yeah, it's got a no-bore Q50 Red Sport.

Does that mean Honda takes on Nissan?

And therefore, Accurace will take over infinities?

What does this mean, people?

Yeah.

Ooh.

So hold on to their logo coming.

It's the Accure Infinity mashup.

Somebody send us that one.

Oh, my brain hurts.

All right, well, Jeremy, you've got great choices here.

Really appreciate writing.

We've given you some food for thought

and hope you come out with something

that you really enjoy and that is a notch above funnish, yes.

Hey, what's up, y'all?

Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair.

My favorite thing about the holidays,

decking out my whole house.

It's not a competition, but if it was,

well, I'd win the season with Wayfair.

Outdoor inflatable Santa, got it on Wayfair.

Trees, lights, and ornaments, Wayfair.

Hosting bus tabs, like dining sets, beds, sheets,

and towels, Wayfair.

For everything in your style, delivered

with fast and free shipping, visit Wayfair.com

or the Wayfair app to win the season.

But again, it's not a competition.

Wayfair every style, every home.

A cool message into us.

Thank you, Ralph from Facebook.

Ralph says he's thrilled he discovered our show.

He was looking around when he was just about to order

and try to build his 2023 C8 to order it.

And he found our Corvette C8 review.

And now he watches our reviews.

He loves our road trip films and he listens to the podcast.

Ralph, thank you.

Thank you for just saying that that's how you found us

for reaching out.

And also, I'm thrilled that you like our road trip films.

It's the most fun thing we do.

We love them.

We're very proud of them.

I wish everybody that watches road trips on YouTube

knew about ours and watch them.

So please feel free to share them

because we're very proud of them.

I hope to get more viewership for them

because we got big ones coming in 2025.

Still on Facebook, Aaron Galinsky says,

here ye, here ye.

Okay.

My principle of Prius isn't someone's speeding

in a Prius, a hypocrite.

I'm not sure.

I mean, we tried to speed in a Prius.

I mean, we did.

There was speeding, allegedly and officially.

It's fun.

It works.

It can speed.

Yes, it is capable of speeding, yes.

Well, he says, why might it be anytime anyone asks

about fuel economy and anything sporty, remotely sporty?

You get the conversation, you get the response.

If you want mileage, you shouldn't be driving

in that whatever car.

You need to go shop some other fuel efficient car.

Do other people not do the cost mile analysis

or estimation when shopping?

There's some level of just buy what you want

and it costs what it costs, right?

Yes, there is.

Especially when you listen to this show.

We are not a financial podcast.

Buy that car that makes no sense, enjoy.

Although he says he could get 30 plus miles per gallon easy

in his C5 vet.

He's loved it on road trips, absolutely.

And that's what I love about the C8 Corvette.

It's got the cylinder shut off.

It's not the best system ever, but it's decent.

And it shuts off and they claim 26

at least out of that mid-engine 6.2, not bad.

But nobody you're right is thinking

you've got a sporty car, like gosh,

I really hope to get 50 plus miles

of the gallon out of this thing.

No, I don't think I've ever entered your mind.

But you know what, Aaron, I've never gotten that

from anything, any sporty car that is in my driveway

and neighbors come by and talk about it.

If it's something interesting, sporty fuel economy

does not come up.

And I'm surprised that it has with you.

I'm surprised that people have tried to steer you

to something else and then they've missed the point

and it doesn't do what you wanted to do.

But I think in the last 10 years or so,

miles per gallon has increased so much.

There are so many cars that get great miles per gallon.

Things that didn't used to get good miles per gallon,

many vans, things like this have gone hybrid

and now get decent miles per gallon.

And they've gone up to like 19 MPG instead of 16.

No, but here's a thing, 10, 15 years ago,

there wasn't a lot of stuff averaging in the 30s.

Now there's a lot of stuff you can buy

at averages in the 30s.

So if you show up in a conversation

with a car that gets barely out of the teens,

people notice it shouldn't matter

because it's a fun car, but people like,

that only does 22.

I'm like, yeah, but have you driven it?

I mean, we had a decade of Hellcats.

We did.

Well, but now they're gone so that the general average

is rising, but yeah.

Like, do you hear that noise?

That's converting gas into noise.

Yes, it is.

Bruce B on Instagram has hit my current nerve on cars.

Okay, he's nailed it.

Really?

Since the days are getting shorter,

it feels like more people are driving

without headlights on, usually in new cars.

Could this be because of the displays in cars?

People don't need the backlight on the speedometer

to see it.

Bruce, it's that.

And it's also, we see it around here a lot

because you landed at the Salt Lake Airport

and you're going skiing with your family, okay?

And you get into a rental car,

so you're not used to the car.

And the rental car does not have the lights on auto mode,

but you turn the car on and all the screens are bright

enough for you to see.

And there's daytime running lights

and people assume the lights are on.

And I have, and I'm overstating this, but it's true.

I have chased as too strong a word,

but I have chased people on the freeway,

trying to get them to understand

that the reason I'm flashing my lights at them

is because their lights aren't on.

And in some cases, you idiots.

In some cases, they're flipping me off

or running away because they think I'm being a jerk.

I'm like, seriously, you're driving along

as this black hole in traffic.

And it's dangerous.

It is the combination of the fact that you're right.

The screens are bright enough

that people don't realize, well, I should have my lights on,

so I can see the gauges.

I can see the gauges just fine.

In fact, they're blinding if you have them on

as bright as they are on the daytime.

And the daytime running lights are casting enough light

that especially people that have rented cars have no idea.

I wish there was a way to solve this.

I wish we could come to an agreement

that we don't all hate each other.

And if somebody's flashing their lights at you,

they're not mad.

They're trying to help.

Okay?

But that's a thing that happens.

And it's, yeah, bugs me probably more than it should.

Panting Augusta, Patrick B on Instagram

is obsessed with the shooting break.

Sports car meets wagon.

Yes, but what makes a shooting break?

Two door or four?

Two seats or four?

Or whatever two plus two means?

And what car would we like to see as a shooting break?

Miata and LC500, GR6, all good choices.

Patrick, that came from Bentley and Rolls Royce

were among the first to do it, but I could be corrected.

I'm a little bit out on the limb there,

but it was to lay the long rifles in the back

when you were on a fox hunt or a hunting.

To lay the long guns in the back

and it was a selection under the blanket.

And you could choose for the day

what you were going to be doing,

what activity, what caliber.

And therefore, it became the shooting break.

So I look at it as a two door with the wagon,

even though there is the Tycon and the Panamera,

the shooting break, the Sport Toreismo,

but it's a shooting break,

but it's no longer used for that purpose.

And necessarily, I want it to be like the Z3 shoe,

the coupe.

Sure, yeah.

I would have loved to Z4 kind of the same thing,

but anytime there's a bread van looking thing,

remember the bread van GTO that's already built?

Yeah, yeah.

Cool is that.

Any car that has that is just a one off,

as a matter of fact, BMW did make that

for the Villa Diesta concept.

Just a couple of years ago, that BMW Z4 concept,

it was so cool.

Very much that.

It's not long enough for your rifles,

but yeah.

When all of their production cars are ugly

and their actual concepts are like, wow, that's gorgeous.

You're good.

Can we not connect the dots at all?

Come on, so anything really,

but it's looked at as just more cargo space nowadays,

which is great.

I mean, if it were like a Uber Eats or Dordash

or something like that, pizza delivery, don't care.

I would welcome that, but you know,

it's just not as popular.

So what we have are liftbacks these days.

Yes, we can't say station wagon.

Nobody in the US might know.

Christopher Lot is feeling the pain of screens.

He said, how do we feel about the eye

pedification of modern vehicles?

That is quite a word construction you've done there.

He loves technology and improvements for driving,

but he feels like so many modern vehicles

are losing their individuality and identity

and pursuit of screens and comfort.

Christopher, I'm not sure what I need to say.

You've pretty much said it.

That's the problem.

We've all gotten so obsessed with the screen

in our hand that is our phone that does everything.

And that's been around for 20 years now folks.

Think about that.

It's almost 20 years of the smart thing.

We're not quite there, but we're getting close.

Because of that reality, we are so used

to just touch screens doing everything.

Everything in our life is a touch screen.

Remember when ATMs first went to touch screens,

we were all like, what is this now?

How long till this breaks?

And that was before I was playing a tower with my money.

Exactly, anyway, that can't possibly be right.

Anyway, I love Apple CarPlay.

It's one of my favorite modern features,

but that requires a smartphone and a touch screen.

And now I have that in my little tiny sports car.

All right, I have a touch screen with Apple CarPlay

and my Lotus Amir back to where we started.

Which otherwise is trying to be very technologically

old school, but yet it has this stuff in it.

In general, this is because people like touch screens

use their phones and don't like to drive.

So when you flip the equation around

and you want like to drive first,

the screens are still there because that's the baseline.

And I wish more, and this is what this whole show's about.

I wish more people had had great driving experiences

so they were seeking out a car that was fun to drive first.

But all the way back to Martin's commentary

at the beginning of the podcast,

his wife has never liked cars.

And now that she has an EV, which is quieter

and drives like EVs drive and have all the screens

and all of that, she's connected with it.

So non-car people seem to prefer it.

That's what sells most of the cars.

Here's where we go.

On Facebook, Daniel N is asking me,

watch his whiskey and design question for my came of this.

I'm gonna put this off for a topic Tuesday

because this could be quite a lengthy list here.

What whiskey would I pair with my Cayman?

Watch what I pair with it and what's my favorite design.

I will tell you the favorite design element

of the Cayman Daniel and that is the fender humps.

The tops of the fenders are just so sculpture

and the radius is the variable filets are so beautiful

to my eye and I love the proportion about it.

I really like the styling of that 981 generation

and he says feel free to do it for the rest of your garage.

Yes, we'll do it for follow up questions

because I'm still deciding on the whiskey and the watch.

Does it need to be a Germaniac kind of whiskey or water?

Can it be something Swiss?

I'm still trying to think of that.

And I think in combination with that,

this topic Tuesday from Lamalina,

Liam 23 over on Instagram,

Liam D. Berkashakase says recreate your current garage

or build a dream garage with cars from your year of birth

when you got your license,

when you started everyday driver and when you purchased HOD.

Lamalina, I love this question.

I have an answer.

Oh, you do.

Okay, here's the thing.

I think there is a more thoughtful

topic Tuesday version of this where we maybe do

like all the cars from one of those years.

We have to like build it every time,

like build it from your birth, everything in our garage.

But what I did, I took all four of those years.

So that's 1973 year of my birth.

1989, the year I got my license,

2007, the year we started everyday driver

and 2024, the year we bought HOD.

And while there is, I will admit,

there is a more thoughtful version of this.

Here's what's funny.

Some of my current garage works here, 2024,

Lotus Amira, 2007, Lotus Elise.

Oh my gosh.

1989, the year the Nissan 300 ZX twin turbo

was introduced, boom.

I was gonna go for Caprice.

No, I'm not going there.

I was going Caprice, man.

The hard one for me was 1973

and I think I've landed there as well.

I want a K5 Chevy Blazer Total Restomod.

That four car garage,

Restomod K5 Chevy Blazer,

a first year Nissan 300 ZX twin turbo,

a brand new Lotus Elise and the Lotus Amira.

And I cannot believe how close I got to actual cars,

either in my life or in my garage,

while using those years.

I was astonished to do it this way.

That is a mic drop.

Wow, all right.

So we'll revisit that.

I need to work on that.

I'd like to do a more in-depth version,

but I was quite fascinated to get that close.

I think I need to do is do it again

and take off cars I've owned.

Fair.

But I couldn't believe how close I got.

Because you're in the current garage.

You could build a dream garage with the same,

because I was thinking dream garage

because of all the Porsches that I want in there.

But, you know, I'll keep it to maybe one, maybe two.

I should do it again

and nothing that I've owned can be on the list,

but I couldn't believe how well I did here.

We could have multiple lists,

some without Lotus, some without Porsche.

There you go.

Using them, the current garage or the dream.

You are a list guy.

We could have fun with that.

That's a great one, Lama Liam.

Thank you.

Guys, thank you for all your questions.

We sure appreciate it.

Right to us, everybody, driverTV at gmail.com

for all those cool topic Tuesdays.

Yeah.

The car conclusions are always excellent.

We've got an ongoing list there

and those car debates are very cool.

And of course, these social media questions,

I love the off the cuff.

I love the show for you guys involved with it.

It's great stuff, yeah.

Really appreciate it.

We're looking forward to next time.

Cheers everyone.

I love you guys.

Thank you.

I love you guys.

963: The Return Of Saturn, The Future Is Good, More Cars Than Drivers

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