965: A Superfast Brick, Interesting Since Zero, Cool Plastic Car

Love them or hate them, everyone has an opinion on cars. But we believe we're all one great car away from a car enthusiast. So we're here to help you find a car you love, and let it take us to everything else in life. I'm Todd. I'm Paul, and this is the everyday driver car debate. It is Friday, Happy Friday. Hope you had a good week. Welcome back to the podcast. You know what the world really needed, Paul? What we don't have enough of is a really fast electric SUV.

If only somebody would offer a really fast electric SUV, and here's the crazy part, once you offer a fast electric SUV, then you figure out how to make a faster one. Because a fast brick is one thing, but a super fast brick is extra interesting. I'm course talking about the Cadillac Lyric V. There has to be a hyphen in between the Q and the V, so it doesn't become one unpronounceable word. Well, they're unpronounceable anyway, because Cadillac for some reason right now is obsessed with all the good names in their lineup and history, obsessed with having everything in

IQ or Q. I just don't get it. But this, yeah, the Lyric-V with 615 horsepower, and I will say it again. I've said it before. We have never been in an electric car and gone, you know what this needs? More power. This needs not a single one, not a single one, even like the low end electrics, but I ate whatever fair. So this has 285 miles of range, apparently, is what Cadillac is saying 3.30 to 60 time for 80 grand. But if this is what the Lyric V, the performance version of the Lyric can

be, does that mean there will be a Honda Prologue Type R and an Accura ZDX Type S? That's excellent. And there

should be, but there shouldn't be at the same time. There should be. More important is this new drive

mode. They're talking about competitive mode, which allows skill drivers to push the limits of its

lateral abilities in a heavy EV. Yeah, that sounds fun. Why is this the thing you want to do the lateral

ability thing in? I mean, bring any car to a hookdown driving day, bring any car. We say, bring it.

Sure. But there's other more nimble cars that might be more satisfying than the Lyric V.

You can run a marathon or a sprint race in your dress shoes. You can. You can. I just really

don't recommend it. And that's where we are here. This is you brought. Look, Cadillac racing

is formidable. There are to be reckoned with. Absolutely. And I love that Cadillac racing program

is trickling down into all Cadillac products. Pretty much. Well, not all, but almost everything in

the Cadillac lamp. And so here we have the V, the new EVV. The EVV. There it is. But since it's

the Chevy. Thank you for coming everybody. Platform with Altim battery. And it will spawn some Chevy

SS. It'll be the blazer SS. Yeah, you're right. And then now Honda and Accura will receive theirs. And

they can call them the type S. We've got the prologue type S. Everyone apparently. That's what

this means, right? I guess I just I continue to think that these are huge overly heavy boats.

That's what EVs are because of the heavy battery. Yes. But because the electric motors they can have

crazy power. Remember, I'm sorry, but I know it went away at a blip and they're not worth remembering

really. But the Hummer EV had a three seconds zero to 60. And so many of the marketing department,

a GM was so excited about how to put a WTF button in a car by calling it Watts to Freedom.

Right. Which is a stretch. Okay. I don't care how much your license plate says,

America Watts to Freedom is a stretch. Okay. But you can make this brick go fast. I don't think

that's necessary. So we just keep doing this to ourselves. I mean, it's fast, but now you can

make a corner. But if we're going to make a fast EV that can really corner, it's called the

Ionic 5N. True. That's it. Yeah. We have already can kind of do what we're talking about.

True. We actually have a piece on that coming out next week. We're very excited about it next

Thursday. We have the Ionic 5N versus a Ferrari. And I promise you, it makes sense. It doesn't

on first blush, but I promise you to click it, send it to a friend and then send it to a friend you

want to have a card debate argument with to see if it doesn't make sense because I bet you it does.

It is a Ionic 5N versus a Ferrari on an amazing background that's coming on Thursday. We're very

excited about that piece, plus a lot of other good pieces coming soon too. We've got some amazing

events around the nation coming to you from hooked on driving. Yeah, we do. The track list is

extensive. The two that we really want to focus on are circuit of the Americas, that is May 31st

and June 1st. Yep. Come one, come all. That is a big two-day event. It's going to be what we call

event highs. There's the vendor row and it coincides with our 1000th podcast recording. I for one

can't believe that, but it is true. So we're pointing that. So it's an everyday driver plus

hooked on driving big two-day event, get on track, come for our cars and coffee, come to hang out,

come see us. Yep. We'll be there for that whole weekend and we will definitely describe what

we're teasing so far and that has been the road trip to Coda and the road trip afterwards. Also

the Watkins Glen event that is 4th of July for the hooked on driving northeast region that is

Mark Codian-Santi. 4th of July, 3-day event, 4th through the 6th, which includes a car show from

607 Motorsports and Friday night past. It's going to be a 3-day mega event. Besides vendor row,

it's got a fireworks night because it is July 4th weekend. A DJ, they are throwing it down,

we're excited about that. That doesn't even include the fact that we're talking about if you're

Pacific Northwest, Ridge, Portland International Raceway and ORP are all being covered by our new

Pacific Northwest franchisees. We're very excited about that. Of course, NorCalis continuing to do

Laguna, Sonoma and Thunder Hill. That is a 3-some of tracks in that area. Midwest is coming up with

Hedge Hollow multiple events there and more coming. Probably going to have something in Vegas this

year that is TBD but we're doing National Corvette Museum. New region and Mid-Atlantic is doing that

in June. We have VIR coming. That's just the tracks I remember. Hooked on driving.com right now is

where you go for all of that. But while we're talking about adventures and events, I have to stop

real quick and say, have you been to our adventure tab on EverydayDriver.com because everyone changed.

It's new things are there. It's EverydayDriver.com slash Adventures and the 2025 pilgrimage trip is

now available. You can find it there. Also, the Coda trip there and we're teasing the Bear Tooth Pass

Adventure for 2025 as well. So EverydayDriver.com Adventures tab in addition to all the fun

track days around the nation all year long. We're very excited to bring all of these events to you

and thanks to all the regional owners and they're really just doing an incredible job. So big shout

out to all the owners. They are and this pilgrimage trip just went live. Remember, this is Ring

and a road tour through Germany which is amazing and driving on spa all of the above in cars.

All you have to do is get yourself to Frankfurt. We take care of everything. It's total white glove.

We get you everywhere you need to be. We get you your meals, track time instructors, helmets,

the whole deal. It is available for people that are experienced in driving or you've never been

to a track before. Start at the top. That's all I'm saying. Start at the ring and stop. Let's just

start right there. Let's do that. That's available right now on our website. It's going to be awesome.

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Mike and Maine writes to us about a milestone birthday car. He recently heard us recommending an

NC Miata for a teen driver and his son bought an 07 NC-1 about a year and a half ago. It's been

perfect. He's done track events. He works with Mike, wrenching on it, safe fun, great dynamics.

It's almost time for Dad to get a fun car and occasionally track and autocross. We like to hear

that. It's something that has to have engaging driving dynamics that is sporty and under $40,000.

Okay. Okay. So all that is out of the way for his next paragraph where he tells us that he's driven

a Porsche 718 at a dream ride event. And Mike says it was underwhelming. I'm so underwhelming.

I'm just going to let you enjoy this. Yeah. Underwhelming. He says he should never have driven

a Porsche. Ooh. What? He was disappointed that the poster cars of his youth are now computer-aided

engine, Eric feeling. Ooh, Mike. Do you need a minute? I'm just, I'm smiling over here,

but I'm just worried if you might be the minute. Yeah, words. So he suggests perhaps a Lotus

Miata or something else that is light and rewarding to work with. He's also been into C5 and C6 Corvettes.

He's curious about those. He is out in Maine. So finding cars to test drive is hard. The vehicle

must be manual. He says automatics are right out. And he sends to us a decent list of cars that he's

owned over the years 1995 GTI VR6. He had a scout 800 from 1969. Very cool. What else? 1999

Super Impresed 2.5 RS. Those were so cool. That was the best looking one by far. Yeah. So great.

1956 Lincoln Premier. He had a 0-2 Tacoma 2-wheel drive regular cab, 2017 GTI with plaid seats,

2022 Honda Civic Si. That's his wife's car. And it looks like that's the current. And he's got

an 0-7 his son's car, the NC1 Miata. It says all but the Lincoln were manual, most were modified to

add performance or handling characteristics. So this next sports car must be the big one. The

turning 50 years old, turning 50 car that he really wants. They've got other vehicles for the day-to-day

thing. So what is a special treat to drive? Forty-care under. I'm going to scroll back up Mike. I'm

going to talk about your Porsche experience. You said you drove a Porsche 718 at this dream ride

event. Yes. And I will say not everybody's a Porsche enthusiast and that's totally okay if you're

not into them and you don't like them. Hey, everybody likes what they like. You know what? Fair.

I want to say we may be the only currently working automotive journalists who will tell you it's

okay to not buy a Porsche. And I'll go even further, most currently working automotive journalists

mostly will also tell you if you're going to buy a Porsche, you may as well just buy the 911.

We're over here being the the outsider voices and I say that knowing that Paul still a fan that

swims in the pool of Porsche. I do. You're still perfectly happy for you to not buy a Porsche product.

I know that's revolutionary. Somebody may take us off of the web for saying so. But there it is.

I am not going to suggest that you go buy one either. I'm just trying to get to the crux of the

matter where you say it was underwhelming and you should have never driven one. Yeah. Now,

you said you've disappointed that the poster cars of your youth are now computer-aided

and generic feeling. Your other comment indicates to me that you've never driven any Porsche product

before. I think you're right. So this was the first time at a sanitized event. Well, and also

frankly, this is Porsche post-electric power steering. Correct. I think things have changed over the

years from the very first car that has had electric power steering. That has gotten better,

true. Yes. I think it's only improved to put this blanket comment over all Porsche's. I want

to put a pin in that. I'll say I think you shouldn't write off all Porsche's right now and say I

should never have driven a Porsche. I 100% agree with you actually. I completely in agreement. In fact,

I have two Porsche's on my list for him to go find a drive. I do. In spite of that, it's quite

the comment because of the one he drove. You drove a 718 Cayman, which is dynamically and engineering-wise

brilliant, but I wouldn't call it involving more than other cars. I'd say well more than you bought

an SUV, but look at the stuff that he's driven and that kind of thing more than some other things

that are trying to be sporty. Certainly, but if you're driving that coming in out of clear nowhere,

because I've said this before and I know this is controversial, Volkswagen used to have fun,

fizzy, interesting, quirky cars. Now they have the tires. Everything became sanitized.

And I think that Porsche is on a 20-year trajectory tracking along behind Volkswagen. And steadily,

the Porsche stuff is losing all the stuff that made it interesting and weird and quirky and fun

and fizzy and all the whatever your term is and they're becoming more and more technically brilliant,

but less and less engaging. And he jumped into the pool of Porsche at the shallow end.

He just jumped in with a 718, which is electric power steering. And you and I've even

discussed, because we had them on track last year on our pilgrimage trip. You need to come with us,

because it's awesome. On our pilgrimage trip last year, you and I had a Cayman GTS.

We didn't like the tires that it came from in Germany on the from the factory where they were okay

tires. They weren't great. We both knew that the car handled better. Okay, it's a loving term.

But then later on in the day, somebody else on our group had a GT4.

Okay. Yeah. And they were done for the day. And they said, you want the rest of our laps in that.

It was a reset at 718 GT4. Yes. So it was the same gen, but it was GTS to GT4. And just that

difference was extremely noticeable on track. And those are not base 718s. What I'm hearing from you

is you drove like a 718 Cayman and it was fine. And you wanted it to be wow. And you and I noticed

from GTS to GT4 a jump. Yes. It was huge. I mean, the GT4 is set up to be a track car. Yes.

Yes. Yes. It's very different than something base. And again, when I hear a dream event or a dream

ride, all I can think about is like, well, you're sleeping a day dreaming, but still the picture point.

It's probably not a let's find the indicate sanitized. It's very curated. It's like a notch above

a dealership test drive that they have the course. Sure. They're going to pat you on the head

and tell you good job. Like you did exactly what we told you. And you got nothing out of this

because we controlled you too much. My guy doesn't feel like you've really ripped on it and gotten

what you needed out of it. But I won't suggest a Porsche. I will come back to that when we get there.

But keep going. And because you did, I'm laughing at my list now. Okay. All right. Because you've got

two Porsches to suggest. I have Lotus to suggest. Well, I have those two, but I did actually go into

Porsche. But keep going. I'm excited to hear this. I toyed around with BMW M235 Eyes. Mike

and I toyed around with Hyundai N vehicles. And then I thought about the Civic Type R. And I was like,

well, no, you've got an SI. So no, that's not going to work. So I went looking for cheap of orders.

Because you said, what about a Lotus? I thought, are there any close to 40K? Is it too much?

I found three, actually, using Autotempis.com. So I said, every day, I found the first one, 2011 Evora.

These are all normal evoras. Yep. Okay. 20,000 miles for 42,9, a 2010 for 44, 900, and a 2014

with 37,000 miles in Texas for $45,991. You want the most recent one you can get? That's my feeling

to 2014. Okay, 37,000 miles. But I think you would, it would be revelatory. I think you'd love it.

Car, yeah. The question I think Todd, only you can answer is longevity. The long-term ability,

the long-term viability of the first evoras because they only got better. The Evora that I

really like is the GT. But that was the best, the most focused, most re-engineered, last of the

evoras, they had a lot of time to improve it over years, decade, essentially. I mean,

their O9 and 2010s, my understanding is be careful because the O9s and 2010s,

clutch replacements are expensive. I don't know what they changed after that outcome of

research, but I don't know what they changed after that to know that after that, the clutch

replacement gets less expensive and extensive. But the really early cars, you can typically find

cheap and that is the lurking thing. Having said that, 2010, 2011, like these, having said that,

though, it's a Toyota Camry engine with a supercharger on it. The reliability on the car has been

very good. I don't think this was even supercharged, the ones that I found out. Unless it's an S,

unless it's an S, it isn't. I don't think they were S's. And the thing is you kind of want the S.

I think you have to go above 40 grand to get the Evora that you really want because you really

want the S. That car, I remember driving one on track in the base form, the 300 horsepower

form. And it was like a bigger 86. And I mean, that is a compliment and a detriment. Meaning,

it was so good, I was aware it could take 100 more horsepower. And then the supercharger one

does exactly that. So you kind of want the S. Now, the 400, I feel like, is the sweet spot in the

Evora lineup because the GTs are close to 100 grand. The 400s are everything they learned from

the early years put into the car and of kind of a mid-cycle refresh. And they're very, very good.

Below that, the higher years you can find of the S, excellent cars, you don't hear stuff about

drivetrain. You don't hear stuff about brakes and that kind of stuff. You hear stuff about random

little, this switch broke. You hear small manufacturer random electronics and, oh, that Alpine stereo

in the face really looks aftermarket, doesn't it? And wow, this stitching isn't great. This is the

stuff you hear. But you never hear this driving isn't good. Hydraulics steering,

bomb-proof drivetrain, I get the most recent one you can. But Evora is on my list for all of these

reasons. I mean, on one hand, budget is budget. And if that's the top end, that's fine. That happens.

On the other hand, you said the turning 50 car you really want. And the way you phrase that,

might mean it's really special. And so it's got to be special. And if we're gonna do it,

let's do it here. Let's get the Evora that you should get. I mean, there's the 400, the 410,

there was a 430, those are even rarer than they ended at the GT. The GTs are, what, still 70, 80 grand?

To 100, depending upon the one you find. You can find, you can find GTs for as much as a new

Amira. That's what's crazy. Fair. But could you find a GT? I'm doubling your budget, Mike. I realize

this. But if we're gonna get an Evora, that's the really the suite. And look, I really like the

Evora. When we had the orange one with the BMW M2 CS, that's a good choice. But those are 100 grand.

Still, I really like that car too. We're blowing budget. Here we go. Yep.

You know, I had this headspace of if Porsche didn't exist or I wasn't allowed to buy a Porsche,

which of these two would I get? And I love the BMW and I would take that Evora GT. It was so much

fun to drive. It was so special. So, you only, you can answer the question. When you hold both

of these up, one in each hand, the turning 50 special car that I really want. It can't be a

Porsche. You're not impressed. Fine. You've had all these other cars. Because if we suggest anything

that's in the $40,000 range, a Hyundai, a Lancer N, will you've got the Civic SI? It's a 2022.

That's a great car. That's a fun car. How much better will this mid-range super fun car be

against what you already have? What you already have available to you? Budget is budget. It might be

a hard stop. Yep. But when you look back and you say I did have that GT or had the 400 or something.

I'm looking right now. 400s are running 60 grand. Either side is 60. Okay. I'll compromise with you

Mike. If you can stretch for a 400, those are still so great to drive. A lot of stuff was sorted

out from these early cars that I found. The GTs are 80. Because I don't want you to collapse across

the finish line. Like I got the thing and I paid what I wanted and I wish I would have. I don't

want that thought lingering in your mind. Yeah. Yeah. GTs are running 80 typically. That's 400s are

running 60, 65. Fewer more than that if they're really little miles. But that's what I'm finding right

now on all the tempest. I mean, it sounds funny and I, you know, we talk about this all the time.

I blow your budget. Yeah. But I don't want you to, you know, if we're going to spend that kind of

money, just another one third of your budget gets you to a whole leap more. It's not just another third

of fun. Yeah. It's another 100% in my mind. It's another giant leap for not that much more money.

If again, I mean, we don't know this, but only you can tell. But the thing is that this is,

look, we're almost to a thousand podcasts. And I can't even tell you the overwhelming number of

car conclusions that come to us where you guys find the car you want. And it was more than you

wanted to spend any buy it anyway. As you said earlier, Paul, budget is a real thing. But budget

for cars is often like houses. Cars and houses were like, well, you know, that is 25% more than I

was planning. But we really do like this house. It happens a lot. It does. It does. I mean, you've

got me out of this. Meadows are, you know, world renowned for being one of the most fun cars ever in

the history of time. It's just sort of like meadows are just the most fun car ever to drive.

Your son has one. You've got access to it. You got a civic SI cool front wheel drive, great fun

car to drive. Excellent car. Yes. And then beyond that and Porsches are out BMWs that the ones I want

for you are just too expensive. Really. And it just seems like Lotus is such a sweet spot here

for the things you really want. You want to want to feel that texture of the road. Sure. Yeah.

When inspect it with your fingertips while you're going 90 miles an hour, whatever, you know,

the canyon. So I, only you can answer the question about projecting yourself into the post-car

purchase headspace. That is when you look back and you think, okay, I did it. Did I really do it

or did I, did I not spend enough to get what I crazy sentence, but I take your point, which is

a stupid, crazy sentence. And I might be completely wrong. Tell me where I'm wrong.

Well, I've got some options for you. And I really want to talk this through my because I think

this is fascinating. I, I hear you on the Porsche thing and I want to circle back to Porsche real

quick. And then I'm going to move on. Okay, but I know test drives are hard for you where you are.

I would like you to literally, this is a big decision. The big part of this is this is

the turning 50 car I really want. That's your term. Okay. So as Paul said, you have access to

a meana. You have access to a Civic SI. I could tell you Civic Type R is a stretch for your

budget, but it's close to what you already have. And just stay there for a second. Civic Type R

is brilliant to drive. I don't think anybody that likes cars and special management transmission

cars, you could put them in a Civic Type R and they get out of it and be like, eh, it's brilliant

to drive. But is it the car you envision as the I've made it car in your driveway? I don't think so.

Now you're a Honda fan. You love Civic. I get it. But it's just like you're talking about poster cars.

You've dreamed growing up. You dreamed growing up of having a Porsche. Is a Civic Type R that

I don't think so. I think a stretch for an Evora is. Look at that car in my driveway.

But the Civic Type R doesn't feel like it. So I'm leaving that. I could say ND Meata, but you have

an NC. So it's kind of close. The thing about the Porsches you've driven is you've driven electric

power steering modern Porsche. And I've said this about Paul's 2015 Cayman, but it's even more true now.

The thing about Porsche products now is below about 80 miles an hour, they could be a golf.

Now a golf's fine. A golf's well engineered. It's dynamically little. You're a little annoyed. I know.

But they're dynamically well done. There's nothing wrong with a golf. It's just you've got to get

60, 80, 100, 120 miles an hour before. Porsche's like, oh, I get it. Oh my gosh, this is amazing.

But the problem is at 40, it's a golf. I have joked about this before. My Lotus Elise backs down my

driveway and I'm smiling. I've gone walking pace in reverse. It's all I've done so far. I haven't

done anything cool. I turned straight. I get into first. I get to the end of my block. I'm like,

yeah. Uh-huh. I haven't even gotten out of first year. It's funny. That car is fun all the time.

So is a Meata fun all the time. And he's got you can do 100 in those. It starts to get a little

bit like I'm really going really fast. Whereas the other cars are just starting to get interesting.

The Elise has been interesting since zero. So now you've had 100 miles worth of whoa. So

the older Porsches are better for this. I would love for you to find a Cayman R, which is an early

Cayman. That's a great one. 21 or 12 or a 997 generation 911. Yes. Hydraulic steering before

the 911 got big. I think you would find some of the Porsche magic in those. And I kind of,

because this is such a big purchase, I kind of want you to fly to somewhere like Vegas or LA

and Turro bunch of stuff. Yeah. Just take a vacation. Yeah. To somewhere that's got good weather where

you can like multiple days in a row. Turro different things because you can find all those kind of

cars in those markets. Uh, maybe Scottsdale, Arizona is another option to do this kind of thing. We

go somewhere warm where you can turro anything you can imagine. And just that's your market

shopping. That's your test driving. Because I think this is an important enough buy for that. But

a 997 911. That's my favorite generation. The 05 to 2012 era. Now the later you go, the less you get

into the issues that those engines have, I think you got to go 09 and above. But the point is,

that's my favorite area of 911. It's still hydraulic steering. It has the Porsche magic. The

Cayman R is the same. I still don't know that Porsche is right for you, but those are the ones that

are going to get you closer to what you were hoping for. I like your C5 C6 Corvette. What you want

is a 06. That's the madness you're looking for. Yeah. That is the madness you're looking for. Possibly

a grand sport, but I think it's 06. I have two more. Paul already mentioned the Avore. The Avore is

excellent. If you want a more usable version of the car that's steering all of us in the face,

the Elise $40,000 gets you all kinds of Elise. Now a lot of the ones that are super pristine are running

in the high 40s. Believe it or not. But you can find one like mine with miles on it. That's been

lovingly but very much driven in the 30s. There isn't a car that does driver involvement

better than the Elise. There is just isn't one. It just doesn't exist. Unless you go to like

Ariel Adam or Caterham or something where you don't have a top anymore. You know what I'm saying?

So if that really is what you're looking for, it is Elise. Elise wins. But I think you're looking

for a slightly more usable car than that. That's what leans us toward Avore. But then my last

possibility for you that I have to put out there is and I think you can get options for your budget.

The BMW Z4 Coupe. It's the era of the E46 BMW. So it's a little bit older. There's

going to be maintenance going on. You could find them all day for your budget. That is

everything BMW did right. In a car you just don't see very often. That is also small. It's

before BMW got big. It's everything they did right that's still affordable. Yes,

I agree. Yes, because it's not a 1M, which is super wonderful, but super expensive. The

E46 you want is either junked out, which takes a lot of money to get it to even run, or so

expensive you can't afford it. There's nothing in the middle. Afraid to drive it. Exactly. So I think

the Z4 Coupe is the hidden one in their line up there. So I think you really need to look at that.

You may need to buy an Elise that might really be the answer. I don't say it because I own one.

I say it because what I'm reading from you is you need fun at 10 miles an hour.

But exotic, interesting, aspirational can still do 100 in a track day. Elise.

All right, Mike. The test driving part here is a bit of a challenge. It's hard. But if you decide,

you know what, take the family on a vacation. Maybe just you and your wife. You're significant

other. Arizona built more.com, my friend. I stayed there once. It's been a while, but I was in

the built more cottages. It was when I was working in tech. And I had an event there. So yeah,

I stayed there in the company's dime, but I got to stay at the Arizona built more. And it's such a great

hotel. You could book there. And then that's your home base of operations to go driving. You've got a

lovely vacation. You're in the warm weather. New car every day. Seriously, I like that for you.

So let us know what you end up deciding. Let us know about your trip. And we wish you happy hunting

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Spencer C is in Massachusetts. He needs the inspiration. He's been listening for a few years.

Spencer really appreciate you listening. Thank you for sharing the podcast. Thank you for listening.

He likes the show. How it gets down to the real car nerd part of the brain.

Yes, we do. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's exactly where we are. His question surrounds

replacing his one or both cars that he owns. Like I said, he's in Massachusetts. He works in the

city so usually uses public transportation to get to work because he's a college professor.

Okay. In his car ownership history, he has owned a 2004 Saturn ion red line,

which he calls a supercharged death trap. He says it was begging to die when it got junked.

But the tagline is cool plastic car, though, which is awesome. By the way, when was the last

and this is my test, all of you sin photos when I do this, when was the last time you saw a Saturn

ion red line? I'll be amazed if we get one photo. Ben a while. Saturn ion red line. I wonder

if somebody's looking at one right now. That is super niche. It is. It is. But you will be the only

one in the US looking at one right now because that's just not out there. After that, he had a 2011

Chevy cruise from his dad, anemic with a sloppy automatic transmission, but sloppy, relatively reliable.

That is your desperate attempt to be nice to the fact that your dad gave you a car. That's what

that is. That's like, Dad, I love you very, very much. So I'm going to be as nice as I can about

this thing that really should have never been given to anyone. That was your car history until

your first big boy purchase. You bought a brand new 2019 Subaru WX at the time. It was a truly

excellent car for New England. You sold it because of the ride and the seats eventually started to

bother your back. So it was that I've grown out of this moment. It felt like a better way to put it.

It was just like, I love this. And now you know what, Owl. So he sold it for that reason.

Spencer's two current cars are in 2021 Mazda 3 Turbo. He says, it's comfy. Plenty of torque.

Looks great. All we all drive. What's not to love? Well, it feels woefully soulless.

He said he knows that we like it and we do. But he's also acknowledging that that fun is in this

that's not this car's focus. And you know what, man, you're right. He says, the steering doesn't

communicate all that well. It feels like it's missing that fun car spark. Nothing wrong with it.

And it's paid off 55,000 miles. Is it worth 18 to 20? He wants to find something special.

So Spencer is selling his Mazda 3 Turbo. Everyone 55,000 miles well kept.

Reliable quick transportation. Just not the most fun thing ever. That's where we're at.

He knows that through line between these two emails, he's also got an O4 Mazda Speed Miata.

That was the first review we ever did. It was. And that is the only factory Turbo Miata.

Where the sold a bunch of factory turbos that was the Mazda Speed Miata from O4.

Scroll to the bottom of our original YouTube channel coming up on 18 years ago.

That's how long. C3 versus O4 Mazda Speed Miata. He got it in 2021 when he had a little money

to burn in a lack of sense. Love it. You've written to the right place. Yes.

It's so fun. Good drive. It's had its mechanical issues. Water pump tires, O2 sensor,

and likely needs the timing belt done. He just doesn't use it as much as he likes.

And it drives him to feel like it's sitting there at his dad's house when he's living in

his apartment close to work. He swaps it out, but it's always more of a pain than it needs to be.

Selling it, he could get 10K, 140,000 miles good shape, flying Miata blow off valve, exhaust,

insurance is cheap, so it might just be cheap to keep. I agree. Plus, I want to acknowledge real

quick, this is a turbocharged Miata that is coming up on 21 years old. And it needed a water pump

tires and an O2 sensor, and it might need a timing belt. Not bad. What you call that is reliable.

That there it is. Spencer is selling his Mazda's Mazda Zaron sale. Who wants his 2004 Mazda Speed Miata

right to us will pass you along to Spencer if he can be persuaded to sell it? Because he knows it's

financially savvy to keep both cars. He owes no money. No debt is a good thing, but he wants a car

that has the spark, the inspiration that makes driving fun, whether he keeps one or sells both.

He's looking for advice. Love it. He knows all the options out there, but he wants a second opinion.

He likes the new WRX. He likes the Elantra N. The GTI is a bit weirdly styled.

Have you been in the interior? Anyway, separate thing. His pharmacist by trade now teach says he should

have a sob. Okay, all right. So pharmacists have sobs. Good to know, but problem because those

don't exist anymore. That's an issue. I wonder if college professors have sobs, too.

People that wear sobs. Some of them have sobs. Folks that smoke pipes.

And guys that used to be fighter pilots because we all know born from jets. So there's a broad

spectrum of people that want something unique and they buy a sob and now they can't, which is a problem.

Spencer's 30 years old, maybe something a car that doesn't annihilate his spine, as you said,

wants to come out of this with equal money, but maybe finance up to $10,000. Okay.

New use doesn't matter. He puts all wheel drive first because of Massachusetts where he lives,

front wheel drive, second and rear wheel drive, third. What do we got?

Well, Spencer, first off, you know what I'm going to say? Tires. Oh yes.

Get the car you want and then get the proper tires for weather and go on about your life.

The Mazda Speed Miata is the trick here because I want you to drive it enough to justify

keeping it. There's not enough money. I mean, it's 10 grand, but there's not enough money in it

that you could get something else for the same amount of money that would be as fun.

Or it would be as much of a known commodity. That was a special generation of Mazda Miata.

And I'll be honest, the reason I don't like this because I don't fit in the second gen.

The people that fit in the Mazda Speed Miata's have got a special car. They're very cool.

Yeah. It's paid off. It's easy, but you could certainly find a buyer. So here's my challenge.

I've said it before. I'm going to revise it and say it again. If you have a car,

you the collective view, all of us listening that you put less than 2,000 miles a year on, sell it.

You're not pointing that finger at me. Are you? I'm pointing that finger at all of us, actually.

And it means you need to drive the 928 more. But hang on. Well, I have, I've taken it to all four

directions on the compass. You've taken it a lot of place. You, you stacked up a lot of miles

at a short period of times. You're still burning those off a little bit. But at some point,

the scale will turn, my friend. But this is my rule. Less than 2,000 miles a year. Why do you have

that car? Now you're telling me that you drive it only when the weather's right into cars and coffee.

That's what you told me. Yeah. Less than 2,000 a year. So take a real look at that Spencer and figure

out, I mean, not that what I say matters. But that's my rule. Okay. I'm putting it out there.

Will you drive this car? Because if you're not driving it, somebody out there will buy it and

love it. And that is money that's sitting there. I would love for you to keep it. But I don't

think you're going to drive it enough. So I recognize the boring nature of the Mazda 3 Turbo. Look,

it is a great car. But I understand that what you're looking for is a fun car. And I would not describe

the Mazda 3 Turbo as fun first. So you need to drive the new WX. You've had one. You like them.

Drive it. It is very cool. I don't know that it's going to be two things.

Comfortable enough for your back unless you buy the best seats they make, which the last time I

checked, I'm pretty sure you have to get with the CBT. And it's like 40 something grand,

which is a problem. So can you get a WX that's in your budget that is manual with the seats you want

that is going to be comfortable enough? And is that car, though it's all-wheel drive,

just pure fun enough that you will enjoy it? Because when I lay it alongside the Elantra N that you've

also talked about, we've put those cars together. We have a video on our main channel of putting

those two cars together. The Elantra N is more fun. So if you're looking for fun, I like the seats

in the Elantra better and I like to drive it better. So of those two, even though it's not all-wheel

drive, I would pick the Elantra over the WX, but you need to drive both. I have a stretch car for

you that I think is perfect and then I have a wild card. I'll go quick. There's a stretch car

because it is probably a little bit out of the budget you want to spend even if you sell both cars.

But it's the accurate and tegrit type S. That is. That's cool. That's pretty good. But you seem

saying that's a car that pulls in the parking lot and all you are is just a college professor who's

very conservative. Uh-huh. But it's manual and it's incredibly fun. It's more fun than people

realize. It's got gobs of power. That can go total stealth. The problem with it is the seats aren't

as good as the great seats in the Civic Type R. The problem with the Civic Type R is it's flashy

and it doesn't ride well. So you get the Civic Type R with the great seats and you embrace being

flashy. Please get the blue. It looks amazing. And then you get the suspension module from the

Type S and you make the Civic Type R ride like the Type S. Or you embrace the fact that what you

want is a sob and you get the accurate and tegrit type S. And you just enjoy being stealth while

having one of the best front wheel drive cars out there. That's my stretch car for you because I know

they're 50 grand. It's more than you're going to want to spend. Which leads me to my wild card.

They're out there. All wheel drive. A little bit of personality. Looks very college professor like

but it's also quite fun. A used Audi RS3. Oh that's really good. They're out there.

Or 40 grand. You can find a used one. We're talking like 2018. 19s, 20s. Yeah. Yeah. You're not

getting the latest and greatest, but an Audi RS3. That's everything you're talking about. That's

very professorial. Yes. I just bought a little Audi. I just bought a little Audi. Don't look at me

when I leave the parking lot. But right now it's just a little monster. Yes. Absolutely. And I'm done.

Wow. That's really, really good. I think you've done better than I did. But I will start with my

other weirdly engineed car. And that is the GR Corolla. That's good. It's good. All wheel drive.

Really fun. Makes really great farting noises. Aren't you a professor? I just drive a Corolla.

That sounds really crazy and it's yes. That's a little monster. The second car,

I'm endless. You'll notice all wheel drive, front wheel drive, rear wheel drive. So I got all

good for you. Good for you. Yeah. Second choice is the Mini Cooper, John Cooper works hard to argue with.

The problem, it's a weird problem in my searching. I didn't find that many for sale on there.

But if you could go new, the one we drove was like 44 grand. Sure. Yeah. Brand new. And I think I

cackled every time I just launched the thing. I'm sure you did. Yeah. It was so much fun. I mean,

if you want to save money, I found a no six Cooper S with John Cooper works GP package 66,000

miles for 25 grand. That's not the car you should get. You should get a new one. Spend the money.

You're a professor, right? Yes. Have the fun. What kind of car do you drive? Just a little

mini Cooper. It's just I should have mini Cooper. It's fine. That's cool. It's got gobs of horsepower

and it's really cool and fun to drive. And you're going to laugh and look forward to driving it.

And finally, so that's front wheel drive. Finally is the rear wheel drive version. And can you

entertain a GR86 because tires are the blanket conversation that overlay all three of these choices.

And that is a phenomenal car in the winter. We had the FRS. We had the GR86. Yes.

Excellent winter car. We drove the snot out of that thing in winter. And that most center of gravity

is actually better than all the SUVs and pickup trucks in the winter with proper winter tires.

So could you entertain a GR86? Aren't you a professor? That's your car. Yeah. Yeah.

Child inside, but I love it. You know, I can act like a professor occasionally,

except when I'm leaving campus sideways. Sideways in the winter. Perfectly in control and loving it.

Thank you very much. So there you go. GR Corolla all-wheel drive. Mini Cooper front wheel drive

and a GR86 rear wheel drive. All of those while the mini Cooper is a little bit outside. But

I made it up for the GR86 because that's under your budget. I think you did great. I think you did

very well. All right. Spencer, you've got some decisions to make right to us if you want to buy

Spencer's cars. The Subaru share the love event is on from November 20th to January 2nd.

During this event, Subaru donates to charities like Make a Wish, helping grant more than 3,900

wishes so far. When you purchase or lease a new vehicle during the 2025 Subaru share the love

event, Subaru and its retailers will make a minimum $300 donation to charity. Visit Subaru.com's last

share to learn more. Oh, the questions. Thank you guys as always for writing in and giving us

fun questions to debate. There's always great ones. I'm going to start with JR Schultz since we're

just talking about weather. Is it wrong to feel superior to people who drive in winter conditions

with the improper tires? JR Schultz can't help himself, but feels smug with his winter tires during

a snow storm. You know, I will tell you I have had this feeling. It definitely strikes me,

especially when I am driving a car that people have looked at twice. The lease, the 86,

something that people go, well, that's not a wheel drive. What are you doing? And when I feel

smug and I'll be honest, I'm not proud of it, but I can't help myself is when I see a large truck

or SUV struggling. That's my favorite moment. When they're on the all seasons, all four tires are

spinning. They can't figure it out. And I go by the rear wheel drive sports car like, hello,

that's that's a moment of pride for me because I know they're sitting there going, what happened

there? What magic is going on? And I'm just going, it's just the tires. I'm doing nothing special.

I'm not some great driver. It's just the tires work on Instagram. Andrew, known as Lincoln V8,

says with Ford 7.3 gas engine offering such a high towing capacity is the diesel option

still relevant for the weekend racer that needs a tow rig for 10 grand less. It doesn't seem like

a bad deal. You're right. For 10 grand less, diesels are the tow rig. Makes all kinds of

sense to me. Yes, spend less. Get the diesel, get your tow rig. The 7.3 is a monster.

Yes, for sure. Cool. And I'm glad you're housed at the track.

I'm just going to go ahead for a drink real quick. It's going to be great. Yeah. I brought it all.

See I've got the house and the kitchen and the garage with the car in it. I just brought it all.

Still 10 grand less. Yes. Absolutely. It is.

John Richter 5437 asks if there's any cars we've experienced over the years that we absolutely

loved driving. Even though you had the distinct impression, they might want to kill you.

In other words, cars that were super enjoyable and scary at the same time due to some

element or elements that felt unhinged or difficult to tame. I can tell you exactly what it is.

Which one? It's the C7-ZR1 Corvette. Exactly the top of my list. I felt that coming out of the

parking structure at LAX when we picked up the car. I felt like this thing doesn't like me.

It doesn't like the world. Yes. It had entirely too much power for the grip that was available.

You see why they suddenly went C8. You even talked about you were like people can buy this.

You could just walk in with your normal license and buy this, put down the money and they'll

sell it to you. Normal people? What? Yeah. That car was destined to hurt someone. Every time I drove it,

I was simultaneously really enjoying it and also going, let's not ever let this get out of shape.

I felt a little bit of that when you really dipped into anything hill cat-powered.

There was an element of that. Normal speeds, okay, but then you're like,

it goads it out of you. It pulls it out of you because you know you've got this crazy engine

and you want to hear the supercharger and you want to hear the exhaust. Of course you're going to

stick your foot in it and then it's sort of like, okay, that's what 700 horsepower feels.

That's a good note. Another one I just thought of. The Cadillac Escalade V.

That's a good one. Yeah. Not because when you're driving it, it feels like it's out of control,

but by the time you get it up to the speeds that thing could do in the short distance, it could

you realize, I'm enormous and I'm going light speed and that's going to take some bringing down.

That's why that got scary. It never really feels like it's out of shape, but it's just like,

why am I going this quickly in a house? John, I'm thinking this through and it doesn't

necessarily have to do with the power number. Even though that is an equation,

it really has to do with the chassis and how the car is set up and can it handle the power?

Of course, we all like to brag. Straight line, lots of power, you go fast, but that GT2 RS

from 2018 that we drove against. 700 something horsepower. Yes. That was the easiest,

easiest pie to drive. I agree. And keep in control and I think to myself, wow, this is 700 horsepower.

I mean, yes, I'm going very fast. Look at the number on the Spadamber. What on earth?

I shouldn't be able to do that, but yet I feel really in control. I feel very confident.

Any little turn in, anything, it's just right there. It's so good. It raised my confidence level

and raised my skill level. It pulled better driving out of me. So it really depends on the car.

I felt like that with the E92 M3. We hadn't driven it yet when it came out years ago.

Sure, yeah. We're like, what is this? Suddenly, I'm a better driver than I thought I was. No,

that's the car. Well, in contrast to that GT2, we had it with the 959. And the 959 has sequential

turbos. The second turbo was really high, like 1500 RPM before the red line. When the second,

when you're floor-boarded and the second turbo hits, it's that sensation of, I better get this

right. A couple times, I thought I hit it and I was like, okay, that's impressive. And then I

really discovered it. And that extra boost right there at high RPM before the red line,

the whole car takes on a whole other layer that was like, you better be in control of this.

Whereas you're floor-boarded in crazy speeds with the speed of just flying around the gauge,

like a fan in the GT2. And you're like, this is fine. You know that our turret that we had,

I didn't feel like I was out of control at any point. 670 horsepower, I think they have. It was

way up there. And what a car. I fell in love with that car. You know, it's the horsepower

bragging rights kind of thing. Sure, yeah, yeah. Okay, that's a lot, but that's not as much as my

800 horsepower supercharged Corvette or Camaro or something. Like, okay, it's still really quick,

but I'm I feel in control. I don't feel like I'm just, you know, living on the edge.

I'm at a slight variation on this. When we did our American original film, we drove all the

generations of the Corvette. The first one we drove was a C1 from the 50s with no seat belts.

And I had to crawl kind of in a weird diagonal to slide my thighs underneath the steering wheel

and put on my either side of the steering wheel because the steering wheel was literally half the

distance that I would like a steering wheel to be from my chest. I cut that distance in half.

So I've practically got a dinner plate just in front of my sternum. I have no seat belts and I have

a car that doesn't accelerate very quickly. I didn't feel like the car was trying to kill me.

Stop exactly. I didn't feel like the car was trying to kill me, but I felt like anyone else on

the road might at any moment. We drove that through nice neighborhoods. It worked wonderfully for

the shoot. It was a, it was a perfect specimen to start that film. But I kept thinking and we

actually planned the location because of thinking of this. I kept thinking the car is not trying to

hurt me, but everyone else on the road could without thinking. Richard on Instagram says that we bought

a lot of cars for personal use and to support the show. Have we ever had difficulty getting

insurance because of the car's age, rarity, cost, or use case. He says we must be expert. This is

at this by now. And you'd think so. I don't know that we've really had problems getting insurance.

It's been more long lines of either getting financing or something like that, depending on the age of

the car. But insurance, we've just treated it like, you know what, this is just car. They don't need

to know anything, but this is just my car. I mean, we've had pretty good insurance success. The

thing it's interesting always fascinating to me and sometimes my insurance agent as well is to see

what some random car actually costs to insure. The rarity stuff was like, well, that's surprisingly

expensive because you can't get a body panel for that car anymore. My sob92X had this problem.

I remember the insurance on that was surprisingly high. It was a WX. For being a cheap car. But because

the body panels were rare. So there's that. The problem I have, for example, I'm going to call

them out. Haggerty is known as a really good insurer for your special car, but the problem I have with

Haggerty insurance personally is I drive my car too much. Yeah, it's the mileage. They need it to be

a lower mileage vehicle for you. If you're driving your car 2000 miles, you're perfect. But I'm

driving on 8, 10, 12, 15. If we do big road trips, and that's that's too far beyond. So the difficulty

I've had has been surprisingly expensive because of rarity or too many miles. Daniel on Facebook says,

is magna ride for a Chevy SS a non-negotiable wind purchasing. Look, I'll be honest, I don't have

really recent memories of driving it with and without. Magna ride is brilliant. On anything

it's on, it's like, you must get it with that. But you've said, is it night and day for a twisty

back road? How twisty a back road? And what's your expectation? That car is just the chassis itself is

good. Leave the magna ride in its worst, softest, floatiest suspension mode and the car still drives

well. So if you have the standard suspension, I believe you would still enjoy it. I do think that

the magna ride in general is worth getting on Chevy products if you have the option because it

is a revolutionary system. So in that regard, I would recommend it. But I don't think again, the SS

would be bad without it. Question over here on Facebook from Kevin Burke asking if we have a

favorite, favorite livery on the Imsa cars this year. He's been quite fond of the Pratt and Miller

Corvette since the C8R entered the field, especially mentioned as well, to the AO Racing LNP2 car.

Yeah, there's some good ones out there and chance turn me on to spotterguides.com because

you can download the spotter guides for almost every season for Imsa. You can do F1. This is a

gentleman named Andy Blackmore who creates these for free. And it's cool because if you're watching

the race, you can know what the drivers are, what the car is and that you see the side elevation

of the livery. And there's some good ones. I mean, I do like the Porsche ones, but there's actually

a good Porsche that is just a single car team this year. Anyway, so they're all crazy colors and

that kind of thing. I don't necessarily have a favorite really, but I just like that you can see

everything and they're all different. Of course, I still think I like the GT3, the green monster

with the, I think that's Kevin Hester's car. I can't remember. Anyway, it's got the mouth on it

and it looks like any review mirror. It's coming to you. I think that's a, you know, it's kind of fun.

It makes it a little less, it's intimidating, but it's a little less serious. It's not taking

itself seriously. So, yeah, I see that. I think that's it. Adrian Lane says, why don't we recommend the

Cadillac ATSV or CTSV is the SS a better car? Adrian, this comes down to those cars styling-wise

and interior-wise aren't for everybody. That is the Q system era of Cadillac, which is a very

annoying interface on the inside. So, you have the acronym for annoying. You just have to decide

you're okay with the Q system. Also, I actually think the ATSV is a car that's kind of slept on.

I think it drives really, really well, but I know a lot of people don't like the styling very much.

And the CTSV, I'm not a big fan of the styling and it feels bigger than the SS does in my recollection.

I remember liking it, but feeling like the SS was a better, was one of those cars that as you

drove it faster, it got a little smaller and the CTS never felt like it did that. The ATSV

always thought was totally overlooked and is still overlooked, but you got Q system and a styling

but not everybody likes. Great. Guys, thank you for all your questions. We really appreciate it.

We look forward to podcasting. Hope you do too. And yeah, hooked on driving.com for all the

track events near you and don't forget the pilgrimage trip 2025 is now available. You can

read all the details everydaydriver.com slash adventures. And we hope to see you on the trip with

us. We're looking forward to it. Looking forward to next time too. Cheers everyone.

965: A Superfast Brick, Interesting Since Zero, Cool Plastic Car

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