977: Where Fun Goes To Die, Avoiding Crappy Plastic, No Mechanical Sympathy

Love them or hate them, everyone has an opinion on cars. But we believe we're all one great car away from a car enthusiast. So we're here to help you find a car you love. And let it take us to everything else in life. I'm Todd. I'm Paul, and this is the everyday driver car debate.

We've got some great tracks for hooked on driving. Definitely one of our favorites for Pacific Northwest, and it is the place where we did lemons. F1, a road to F1 piece. We've gotten some big stuff done there. It's a really cool track. And with Richard Grail, just recently, I mileage champion. I mileage champion. Our ice cream run, we ended up there, because we just needed some word to just run everybody dry. Of course, I was long dead. Spoiler alert. But watch that. Watch that. You came back. You were just waiting for us to burn up the. Watch that piece. We ended up there as well. So we actually love that tracks.

We're enjoying that with hooked on driving. There are a lot of really cool hooked on driving events coming up. But I want to say again, Coda, that is circuit of the Americas. That's in Austin. That is the only purpose built F1 track in America. They do. Yeah, they do others. I know. But this is purpose built. And it is an amazing facility. Also one of the longer tracks in America. We are doing our biggest event of the year for both brands. That's why I keep beating on this everyday driver and hooked on driving are converging May 31st June 1st. We're doing a road trip down. We're doing our 1000th podcast there. We're doing track.

Days for two days. We're doing cars and coffee food trucks. It's going to be enormous. You must come. You must have friends. You should try to get on track. Coda is an expensive tractor rent an expensive track to get on. Doesn't matter who you go with. But we'd love to have you on track with us. It's I'm just very excited. And I realize we're in the March. It's coming soon. Can't believe it. Speaking of coming soon. Last call for the everyday driver pilgrimage 2025 to the ring and spa late April early May 2025. Go to everyday driver.com slash adventures to find out.

More if you've been on the fence. If you've been waffling waffle no more come with us. We would love to bring bring you on this trip. It's a single day on the ring. A day on spa and a road tour in between. So you get some de-restricted autumn on time. You get some car sharing. Lots to do lots of fun. We'd love to have you everyday driver.com slash adventures. Oh Volkswagen. What has that rot? What have you done? Well, but you you've you've heard right because I don't think both wagons heard yet. You've heard right that electric cars are

selling well. You heard this. I have heard this. Yeah, Volkswagen has not heard this by the way. They did not get that memo. Yes. Uh-huh. This is the world premiere. Everybody. I'm sure you've seen in any car news that you follow the world premiere of the ID dot everyone. But in small superscript. Oh, one. So it's the every one. Oh, one number one. It's the ID one. The first of the every one. They've done an ID three. They've done an ID four. This is the ID one which suggests smaller. But it's the every one for about 20,000 euro. I have

seen in various places. It's about 17,000 euro. So it the point is it's a cheap entry level EV for everyone. The people, the masses. It's a let's be honest. It's kind of the Volkswagen polo done electric. It's that kind of size vehicle. And let's see if they can pull this off. And let's see. Also, here's my big question. I'm genuinely asking. How will this sell? Because, you know, this is clear. This is kind of what the world has asked for. And that is a good inexpensive electric commuter.

Yes. But those have not sold well. The ones that have existed so far haven't sold that well. So this is Volkswagen offering another one. They're also going, you know, it's they have an ID two. This is smaller than that. Okay. It's concept only. So they're talking 2026, 2027. It's supposed to be really inexpensive. Will it be good? I don't know. And but my biggest question with the shift. Not not shift. The the retraction. I want to say for so many brands on on all EV world is this.

It's a success because it leans into what I think the electric world should be doing. Yeah. Or does it continue to suffer from the folks that don't want EVs? I don't know. You know, I'm not seeing groundbreaking technology. Oh, no. What I'm seeing is a groundbreaking price point. If anybody is to do it, it should be Volkswagen. So for that Volkswagen bravo. And you know what? The styling is actually quite clean. And just like, for example, Mercedes would use the S class.

As the car to set the future direction for styling for all of their product portfolio. Volkswagen is the opposite. They use the most inexpensive, the smallest, the cheapest car to set the styling tone for whatever new product. Also, anything Volkswagen names a car in the future. It's just the name preceded by ID period. So come up with a name. A number. Don't care. But that's there. Apparently they're new naming convention. They're leaning into it. Pretty hard ID buzz today. Yes. What is it?

It looks like a futuristic version of the old 60s van. It's exactly what it looks like. We all knew this. Yeah. Oh man. If they only put a flat six in the back of that thing. All wheel drive. But you know, but what if they put a super super powerful electric motor in it? I actually think that is a EV victory. I haven't driven one. We've climbed around in one extensively. And I think for what it is, that should be EV. I think that actually is one of those works better. I think I think it just should be EV. The original ones were terrible engine wise. The drivetrain was what?

Yes, true. So let's just make it EV and embrace it and it allows you to have designed to the four corners of the body work. I'm actually all for it in EV form. That is one of the places where the platform works completely because it's a box. Because it's just a box on wheel. It's essentially really looks like it looks like a brightly colored loaf of bread on wheels. That's its shape. Take a loaf of bread out of the bag. Look at it ID buzz. Somebody's got to put the license tag wonder. There you go.

Yeah. Somebody's got to do it. Our listener Bruce B finished watching the recent Tows video and wrote to us asking, how does the Volkswagen group with the brands of Porsche Audi Bentley and Lamborghini do so poorly with Volkswagen the brand? If the premium brands can identify and know who their customer is, why can't Volkswagen? The other brands can't be siled that badly. Bruce, yeah, definitely great observation. And here is Volkswagen leaning into what they think the future is, but you know what they might not be wrong here because they have leaned

certainly into EVs and bringing the masses. Everyone the cheapest, lightest, and it's got to be interesting to drive. That's the problem here. It's built on the MEB platform, which everything else EV is built on the MEB platform. So I don't have high hopes from a driving perspective, but maybe they'll put some kind of interesting handling. How about a GT3 steering rack in that everyone? There you go. That's funny. I like it. It's good stuff. GT3 steering racks for all and we stuck it in this thing. They can't be that much more expensive than

what you already install over here. Just bring those over here and the steering is superb and amazing and everybody loves driving it. Because if it is quirky, fun, interesting, that will sell. That was the original beetle. Sure. It was underpowered, really not that great to drive, but you know what? It had charm like no other crew. So for this, the smiley face on the back, the new, you know, it's clean. It's kind of the same. It's just a smooth, refined shape of what we know looks like.

And styling to be, but I think it could be successful. I am giving Volkswagen a note of hope here. But I have a counterpoint to your thought here, Bruce. And I submit to you the following. You're right. Volkswagen owns Porsche Audi Bentley and Lamborghini. And they do seem to know who that customer is, but I submit to you, Bruce. They also perfectly know their Volkswagen customer. Unfortunately, the current Volkswagen customer wants an appliance. They don't want fun.

And I hate to say this, but this is exactly the transformation that we've seen that has made Subaru successful. What was Subaru? Subaru was quirky. Subaru was quirky, cheap performance for the longest time. You want all-wheel drive or you want an STI WRX, you want something that's got rally breeding. They have walked away from that, but they've walked away from that to their own success. They have seen their audience embrace the fact that they've leaned into where the safest out there. They've kind of stolen that from Volvo. They've leaned into CVTs. They've leaned into all-wheel drive.

They've leaned into safety, and now Subaru has an owner. We can all picture the Subaru owner, okay? 20 years ago, it was flat caps backwards because we wanted to rally. Who is the Subaru owner now? It's those folks grown up, okay?

That's where the Subaru, and they've been wildly successful in the US, more successful in the US growth wise than anywhere else, because they know they're buyer. And their buyer is not a, I want something that's great to drive.

And I think Volkswagen knows that their average customer doesn't care how it drives. It needs to feel like a Volkswagen, and they're all built on the same chassis, so they do, and it needs to work, which I have heard, and I look at this anecdotal, I have heard that the European ones built in Europe running Europe, typically are more reliable than the ones over here, heard that anecdotally, but it needs to be affordable in the size that they want and just work.

Fun wasn't on the list, folks, and I think unfortunately Volkswagen knows that's their buyer, and the result is things like the T-Rock and the Touse and the T-Whatever this week, which drives us mad, yes, but this is why they keep selling. The problem is they're not going to break out of that cycle unless they do what Toyota did in the early 2000s. They recognize, all right, well, we've got that market, but nobody likes us.

We're selling cars, but nobody likes us. We should do something revolutionary, and I think the closest they've gotten is that ID buzz. Maybe these little EVs can bring some flavor back because it's flavorless, but they're fine.

The color's nice. Yeah, yeah, I actually like the color. It's sort of a muted, sophisticated tangerine. Are you prognosticating that in the future, when someone walks into a Volkswagen dealer, they will be greeted by whomever.

The person at the front desk, whoever that is, and say, are you here for fun? Well, yeah, I thought, what do you got? I'm sorry. You will have to leave. You will have to go to someone else in our dealer group. Don't you dare come here for fun.

Where fun dies. Oh, you're looking for fun? Not here. Sorry. If you're not looking for, do you hate us? Come on in.

The tagline is where family cars were fun, capable to die. I don't know. Anyway, yeah. Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void.

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Daniel's writing in trying to avoid crappy plastic. Aren't we all aren't we all I mean truthfully we were on Volkswagen. I got to go back. This is the thing that Volkswagen's done for years.

They've done a really, really good job of putting the nice touch materials up high where you see them or you might touch them. And then if you it's like strata if you're a geologist anything about strata of the earth, the lower you go, the worse the quality gets the stuff down by the floor board isn't even army man quality.

You never touch it. So that's how they get away with your feet might bump it's exactly it's going to get scuffed at some point you're never going to clean that part. So that's works out.

But the problem is not all brands do that well. And sometimes you have like crappy plastic visible in the cabin. This was the right to the original 86. Yeah he wants to avoid that. Maybe if Volkswagen coats the instrument panel and some sort of textile.

So it's like slightly less spray on Alcantara. That would look good. It would be like that spray on stuff that used to put on ceilings. You have the popcorn ceiling. It's the Alcantara equivalent of that.

Maybe like right on Alcantara. I should trademark that right now and make at least a dollar anyway.

At least Daniel recently sold his favorite car to date, which was a 2016 Mercedes C450 AMG.

His past cars included an E92 and E90 BMW 328i. And the love of his life was a 1965 Plymouth Valiant V200 with a 273 V8.

We won't tell him I did not see that coming. I didn't need it when somebody winds up with the love of my life.

The rest of that sentence is not that. I mean Plymouth Valiant. But very, but not what I expected. Never would have guessed that.

Daniel, I like that because it's so different. And that right there is the key to the whole car debate.

Because you're looking for something so out of the ordinary, different, not mainstream, not like everybody else.

And I love that that's your love. The car you love. He's been on the hunt for his next daily enthusiast car.

And it's been a frustrating process. Twice now, the cars he wanted got away from him, a 2016 Lexus GXF, GSF, and a 2018 Jaguar XFS Sport Break.

Both of those are very unique as well. They are. Just don't see him that much.

The Lexus, of course, reliable, naturally aspirated V8 rear wheel drive. Fantastic handling, fun without bringing fragile.

2018 Jag, the Sport Break, gorgeous styling rear wagons, surprising performance but more of a wild cart.

But with those off the table, he needs to rethink his search while keeping the essence of what he loved about them.

Initially his budget was 50 grand, but he decided to drop it back to 25 because he's shouldering the cost of a mortgage right now. He's paying for grad school.

So what he's looking for include fun, fast and engaging. Something that makes him excited to drive every day. That's what we preach.

We're all about. He loved the acceleration noise agility of the C450, but he wished it was crazier.

That, but more nuts got it. Something that handles well doesn't have to be a track car, but he wants something rewarding to drive.

Interesting styling. He wants to turn back to look at it when he walks away and smile without seeing something like it. Park nearby.

Not an obvious choice. See that planet valiant. For sure.

Absolutely. He ties in here. He loves something that flies under the radar or has hidden potential.

Something relatively practical. Number five on the list. He doesn't need massive cargo space, but he wants usable daily livability.

He bought a mid century modern house. Fantastic. Well done. He said it needs some runs to him from the hardware store.

So he says he's got to rent a truck sometimes, but just to get the parts home, but you live in a mid century modern house. That's so great.

You've got furniture, great furniture in your future, my friend.

Yeah. That's a whole separate podcast just for you and Paul talks about separate budget. Yeah. Oh, yeah, it is for sure.

Speaking of which, $30,000 max, ideally something that won't tank in value over the next three few years. Listen to this.

The C450, Daniel writes, went from 40,000 when he bought it six years ago to 11 grand when he sold it the week after he wrote us.

That's horrified. 40 grand six years to 11k. I'm guessing you bought it slightly used. I don't know what number owner you were.

But at this point, he's not looking for something German. He respects love. He's enjoyed them. He's owned them, but he's driven them for the last 15 years. He's up for something new.

He says, though, Porsche could be fun. Yes. It could be. No Germans. Well, Porsche. But Porsche. Yes.

But Porsche is the tagline for sure. Nothing painfully high maintenance. He doesn't mind wrenching a little bit, but he doesn't want to babysit the car.

He does miss stick shift, but it's not a deal breaker and some tech because he makes long four mile drives each way five or so times a year.

So things like car player and lane keeping are nice, not required. He is the same height as you and I Todd six from three all torso.

I feel you on that for sure. Comfort. So he's in the DC area. If he must suffer the traffic there, he preferred to not be enveloped by the crappy plastic. There it is right there. Okay. Got it. All right.

For context, Daniel's dream cars include a 1969 Dodge Super B 440. Okay. Volvo P 1800 E. You never see those. And they are those are showstoppers. When the one of those pulls into cars and coffee, everyone wants to know what it is.

There doesn't even matter if it barely runs. Those P 1800s. You never see them and they are absolute crowd stoppers.

Cadillac CTS V manual transmission wagon. Yes. Excellent. Those are cool. So Daniel's open sedans wagons SUV trucks. Whatever. He says manuals at a plus, not a requirement.

But if it's quirky, overlooked and capable of being an unexpected enthusiast car, he is interested. Love it.

All right. What do we have for Daniel? I've got multiple choices. I've got some wild cards. Actually, I have things that you might not be expecting because I went shopping for your budget. Okay.

And I thought Daniel is Lexus really off the table. Why is it off the table? I scrolling back up here, looking at your email and you said, well, it's off the table. Why? Why is the GSF at this point?

The GSF why is it not still on? Yeah. Cause can he still get them for his budget? I didn't look at those. But if you wanted it badly enough, you'd make it work.

That is really the motto of how we all buy cars. Frankly, yeah. Furniture houses. For sure. Yes. You're right. You're right. I thought of the. My first choice before you, Daniel was the Nissan Z performance or even a sport. Those are still 40 grand. Sure. Yeah. It was my starting place. And I thought, you know what? Where else is that engine located?

Good. Good. Okay. You can find that three liter V6 twin turbo and the infinity Q50 red sport 400 found at 2017 was 78,000 miles for 21 grand. Those are not expensive at all. There's your total under the radar. And luxurious. They are. They're decent. I mean, the tech is a bit old, but those are forgotten cars. And he likes that quirky. So it might work out.

Okay. If that's slightly too old, I bumped you up to an infinity Q60, which I think is better. I think it's drives better. Styling's better. Looks better. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

2019 3.0 Lux version with 50,000 miles for 26 grand. Okay. Yeah. Not bad. There's no second buyer for infinities. That they're one of those brands where it's like, please, cup, take this, use the infinity. And they keep running. Well, that's a sweet spot. Because you said you don't want German. So I'm actively avoiding any German cars. Takes a lot of stuff off the table.

It does. But for that luxury feel that you're wanting with a lot of power and that comfort, a lot of amenities. And they were expensive new, but they've dropped off.

So the thing that happened to your Mercedes, I kind of want you to go take advantage of. That's where infinity lives in today's market.

But Todd, you recently found alpha male Julius that were shockingly inexpensive. Yes, agreed.

Cheap is too strong of a word, but I didn't realize they were this accessible. Let's put it that way. You had pages of pages of under.

Absolutely. For sure. Yeah, it was amazing. So I put those on my list, Daniel, for a Julia, go shop. Julia is the one that you found that we laughed at. It was like 130,000 miles and was 11 grand or 11 grand. Now, don't buy that car. But on the other hand, alpha, Julia's go for 130,000 miles.

True. True. So what's the problem? Most of the ones with 60,000 miles were like 20 something. There you go. Awesome. Henlin carb. Beautiful.

I'm going to stop there real quick because my note on this car debate was how long do I have to wait before I recommend an alpha Julia? That was my note because it perfectly works here. Daniel, you have lots of options for your price point.

I don't think your 30 grand is going to get you into the quadrifolio, but I think you're going to be surprised by the power we always have been in the base turbo four. Get yourself the sport. Get you one. Get you one properly spec. That's a car you'll look back at. It's not a car everybody drives.

It checks almost everything you're talking about except for manual transmission. I really think it checks almost every other box you're talking about isn't German handles great.

But it's got enough tech that you can just drive somewhere. Now I will admit some of that interior is more plastic than the competition at the same price point. I will admit that.

But I think it's it's modern than some of the other stuff we're going to recommend and it does do car play and all the stuff that you're going to want to have it be a just forget about it highway cruiser alpha Julia can do that.

But a back road or sit in a parking lot or you just got it washing even man. That's a pretty car all alpha Julia and a typical. I really think that's a front run. I have others but that's a front runner for me here.

The ones that you found were those 2020 and newer 18 19s in the occasional 20s.

Okay. Okay. Still ones. They didn't make any changes. No sheet metal. I stylistically speaking. So I think that's really high in my last.

My last option for you Daniel is the Genesis G 70 found you 2022 3.3 turbo all-wheel drive 56,000 miles for 31 K now it's outside of your budget.

But the two liter engine is much less and those cars are great to drive under the radar Genesis very great luxury great place to spend time and you can find those in the low 20s up to 30 31 like I said.

So you've got some stuff to drive here. None of those are German and they're all luxurious great places to be but if you can go get a GSF still go pursue that because I feel like you're you're writing here and you it's sort of like you've been denied.

True. Yeah. Yeah. That's the tone and I do wonder how close to your budget those GSF go. I should actually go on up here in a minute but I do think that's still a worthwhile one. That also led me to this one Daniel and that is Chevy SS.

Now the the man and when you want is not in your budget. The autos are the bottom of the market for those in automatic is right around $30,000.

They are modern enough. They've got decent tech. I mean we're talking about you know 2015 16 kind of that kind of range. So they've got some modern tech. They are you like under the radar cars. That's an under the radar car.

Hey nice Malibu not a Malibu handles incredibly well. Put some and I've actually seen this I've got a whole page of my auto tempest right now you can put some cool wheels on it starts to stand out a little bit but that's got that's got the Corvette motor in it.

You get magnet ride and automatic and that is a total sleeper undercover sports sedan. Nobody knows how good that is and they are phenomenal. I do think you could find one of those so Chevy SS I think has to be on your short list.

And then I have two others the reason I before I move on to two others reason I like the two I've listed is they are modern their sedans they're unique.

All the other things is about the Julia but also the depreciation's done the Chevy SS is going to stay where it is and the Alfa's have already plummeted so you're safe there to you're not going to have another German experience where you buy it and it is a quarter of its value in a few years it's not going to have with either of these.

So that's that's that but I did think about a typical manual good seats odd ball that might be perfect for you Daniel a little bit different part of the market.

Go find yourself a manual transmission fun color the lost or in that's great three door manual it's the a launcher in a quirkier package they're out there for well inside your budget there's a great red there's that really nice blue they've got a black there's a ton of cool colors available for that car.

That is a car you just don't see anymore I don't know why it's the same drivetrain is the launcher in that we love but it's much quirkier and more interesting.

Veloster and I think you love that and we've roadtrip that car to locations where we filmed it and everybody thought over the lost and it was still fun on the back road.

Veloster ends hiding man that's a great choice Daniel I found a 2016 Lexus GSF in cold spring Kentucky 89,000 miles for just under 36,000 dollars okay well there you go so little above your budget but not up to 50 little yeah not quite as much as you were thinking initially.

It's white that's not the best but I'm sure you know I bet you could find others like that start digging you know being the Lexus 89,000 miles does that really scare you not in the least.

If it had 189 like okay maybe it needs an oil change finally something I don't know I'm kidding but you know this is done yeah.

Daniel wishing you happy hunting thank you for your email right to us topic Tuesday's car conclusions car debates.

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Nicholas writes to us because he's given up on jeeps.

Nicholas is looking for car ideas and hoping we can provide suggestions.

Nicholas thank you for writing. He's got a 2016 Wrangler that's starting to give him more trouble than it's worth and he's finally decided it's time to move on from jeeps.

Who would like to buy a 2016 Jeep Wrangler?

I think Nicholas has dumped a lot of his money into it so if you're looking for a Wrangler.

He said it's sad moving on from jeeps as his first car was a 96 Cherokee but he's gravitating from off road to more fun on the road driving.

He's got a regular commute that's about 45 minutes each way on the highway.

He's in the mid-Atlantic area with lots of back roads he wants to explore and enjoy and let's be honest a Wrangler is not a commute car.

It's going on but that's not what it's good at at all it's not.

Let's see he's rented sedans that he's found enjoyable a five sport back BMW four series Mercedes C250 and while he doesn't think he wants an SUV and a crossover

maybe there's something with an exciting driving experience.

Nicholas is open to ideas with a few requirements must have four doors comfortable for all passengers.

He prefers brand new under 60k 60k sounds like our top the new under 60k with those requirements that actually pairs this down quick.

Yeah it does.

Alright jumping back in with my Genesis G70 you'll get yourself a new one Nicholas 2.5 rear-wheel drive or all-wheel drive with this sport prestige package that puts you just under 50 we love that car.

The Genesis G70 is on my list as well or jump up to the V6 it's probably a little above your budget but not much.

Not much more power and a life that even more the Genesis has got to be way high on this list.

You've got to go look at Acura's Nicholas the TLX type S or the Integra type S go drive both of them I think I mean I know the one that I would prefer to be the Integra but both are superb to drive

they're a lot of fun they're 60 grand you and I are 100% aligned so far lists exactly match so far keep going.

Alright I've got wild cards good first wild card is it used Cadillac CTS V blackwing.

Yes I agree.

Here's the other point I was looking them up the CT4 blackwing the brand new one starts it is budget and goes up so what is it one year old one of those.

Now you could go manual CT4 blackwing sedan now we're really talking the problem is they start like the beginning MSRP is like low 60s and then they go up.

Yeah so you got a shop smart but slightly used you know I've had it six months ahead of the year barely drove it wasn't for me perfect car.

Okay my super wild card is a used Alpha Julio quadrifolio.

Yeah you could get here's the thing 60 grand you have choice the problem is they're not brand new.

They're not brand new but low miles and they're nice condition they're probably two or three years old maybe you can find one of those green ones.

Oh the green is sexy green is sexy.

My mega wild card though is a 2016 BMW 550i.

Oh that's interesting our friend Dale actually just got one 445 horsepower twin turbo V8 and they range get this everyone from 10 grand to about 24k.

Not kidding. Found you at 2016 550m sport with 57,000 miles for 23,000 dollars.

Nicholas you indicated in your email you'd love to get to a hooked on driving event someday so if you spend less you're rocking a little bit more used 550i comfortable.

Little bit of German maintenance in there but take it up to 100,000 miles.

Yeah yeah yeah and that leaves you room in your budget left over or something fun.

Really fun. I like it it's good.

I am turning your 60k into two cars get a BMW 550i monster power out of that V8.

Yeah yeah it's good.

And also maybe a boxer or a used Cayman or something that is fun on tracks you've got two.

Why not?

When you could have two Nicholas that really should be the subtext of this entire podcast why get one car you have to love it.

My point is Nicholas let's say you're not open to that idea you at least have to know that 10 year old 550i's are inexpensive and you can find them with actually pretty low miles from like 40 to 60,000 miles.

That's not too bad put some maintenance into it drive those things they're built to be driven they're really luxurious fun great place to be.

I like all of these I'm going to throw in a couple others Nicholas one I want to say to you is the you talked about BMW's you drove a couple.

I should point out that the four series grand coupé which actually really like I like the grand coupé a lot except for that knows that in 430 form which is more power than it suggests but not the big powerful engine you think you want.

That's right in your budget brand new and so is the 3 series the 330 is the same the problem is I don't like the front end of the 330 more it has the more normal nostrils not the big beaver teeth it has the more normal kidney grills of BMW but then below it it's got like this snow shovel.

So the 330 has its styling issues the force series has its styling issues which do you like of those two but both of those what I'm always surprised by when heavy either one is they have genuine backseat space and I think the grand coupé is a great looking car except for the beaver teeth.

And I like the roof shape it's got good backseat space so those you could have brand new.

You already brought up the integrity type S that is the hidden car at this price point.

I have an enthusiast car you can take on track but you can use it as a commuter type S but I have to bring up the alternative.

Civic type R yeah that's more hardcore but if you so if you're looking at at back roads but again you said four doors comfortable for all passengers the integrity and the civic type R it's the same chassis and the back seats are shockingly big.

60 thousand dollars in your pocket you could go get a brand new one right now the civic type R is awesome but you obviously want a more hardcore experience than you do in the integrity type S and we have heard including from some friends on on YouTube that do POVs that you can take the civic type R and put in the suspension module for the integrity

type S and make it more worthwhile as a daily and still plenty hardcore on track so that's that may be the play but I have to at least bring it up.

See if you spend like twenty three that leaves you what you really want him in two parts for something Porsche flavored something we got back to Porsche bring it to a hooked on driving event you can shoot go get yourself an

ND three me on a brand new one sure for thirty six yeah oh yeah you could get a new one brand new yeah for sure then you've got a five fifty I and a brand three and the

ND three is superb I see where you and if he fits it'd be great oh necklace here to spend your money that's what we do everyone.

Ford blue cruise hands free highway driving takes the work out of being behind the wheel allowing you to relax and reconnect

while also staying in control enjoy the drive in blue cruise enabled vehicles like the F-150 explore and Mustang Mach-E

available feature on equipped vehicles terms apply does not replace safe driving C4 dot com slash blue cruise for more details.

I've got tons of great questions from today you posted that piece on the Tesla Model 3 that test drive is coming to our test drive channel this coming Sunday was really

interesting to drive the new one and to talk about it look we've had commentary on Elon Musk forever but this is not a political

discussion it never is we drove it as a car okay so we're going to discuss it as a car dammy actually asks if we think they should have called their

their smart cruise control something like advanced cruise control instead of autopilot or full self driving of course they should have

dammy but this is a company that likes to say things that don't exist yet because the stock price goes up

and people get excited so now we're watching the tech catch up so that's going on but the thing I think is interesting

about these questions we're going to dive into all kinds of stuff all over the map here's one as far from the

Model 3 as possible Daniel says tips to minimize rollback when driving a manual and you're stopped on a hill he's a new

manual driver he's been watching our video about teaching it it has helped him I'm thrilled to hear that because it doesn't

get watched much but people seem to like it so thank you the trick here Daniel this is the number one place where

you're going to miss not having a manual parking brake the parking breaks you have to hit

though you can't operate them fast what the perfect scenario of this is you got to the top of the hill right and you

pull the parking brake click click click click until you got stopped and now the car is sitting on the hill on the

parking brake and then when you release the brake it's sitting on the parking brake so you have time to push in the

clutch balance the car on on the clutch and release the parking brake as you release the clutch and the car goes

where that's the perfect world but now we have a world where where my manual parking brake go but have you

noticed that when the manual parking brake went away most manual cars got hill hold in response where the car is

now doing what I'm talking about for you if you don't have hill hold hopefully you have a manual parking

brake because that is the trick they also said when going in reverse do you ever actually get your foot

fully off the clutch well I don't know how fast you reversing I mean probably not you're probably

clutch a little bit because you just need to eat your way out but I have a long driveway and so yeah

you let it out sometimes get on the throttle I backed out of the driveway of the night halfway down the

drive by wife looks at me it goes you fly down this drive was like what you get it lined up I've got a weird like

deceiving the drive way once you get it lined up though it's a straight shot to the street and she was

like you're flying I was like yes but I always come to a full stop at the end of the drive because you just

never know but yeah you get it lined up let the clutch out let's go

there's no side alerts on your release there isn't there there's no alerts at all on the Elise you got a

look there's looking Seth K asks if we as car enthusiasts are always looking for the next thing is there

any point to having a dream car after all while it may not disappoint won't we ultimately get

bored of it Marcus T answers actually comes in with a comment it says who said that a dream car

can't always be the next car also dream cars don't always have to be super exotic or expensive

you're right Marcus and Seth the dream car might change true true just like our tastes in food

change over the years the flavors that we never liked as a kid suddenly as an adult you like different

flavors yeah I find that I like mustard a lot and lemons and different things that I never liked as

a kid I turn my nose up yeah so our taste change our tastes and everything change so if you allow

yourself to say you know what my dream car is no longer what I thought it was I aspire to a bronco

raptor or something like that because your taste of change your lifestyle has changed that's totally okay

and to attain that and use it for the time when you you've wanted it you got it and you're enjoying it

as soon as you stop enjoying it well sure it doesn't have to continue to be the dream car I mean my

dream cars as a kid some of which you and I have driven Todd yeah and in some ways they're sort of like

the the velocir in launches better the clutch is lighter and sure a little bit quicker off the line

than this thing sure yeah yeah on the other hand wow dream car and it's still in a it's still up

there for me portion 959's and that kind of thing you know there's still weight up there but

there's other cars I aspire to now alongside of it so can the list grow can the dream car remain

that whether you drive it or own it or not can it remain that and can your satisfaction be

slaked by owning another car that's cheaper better yeah whatever you know I look forward to the

return of the MR2 I mentioned it before but if Toyota brings that back what a recipe yeah and

and I like I like to comment here that the next car can always be the dream car I agree with

that because to your point Paul we are kind of constantly changing in what we want but I think

I think it's possible to have a dream car which is one of those cars you can't imagine ever having

the opportunity to own and if you get to own it that is dream realized and now it becomes a

financial discussion of can you continue to appreciate it or are you scared of it that happens

all the time people reach for the dream car and now they don't ever drive it because what if something

happened but you're supposed to drive it so does the dream car own you that's a whole separate

discussion but I think it is possible to attain a car you never imagined owning and to continue

love it indefinitely and then still want something different to drive I think that's perfectly

valid and the dream this is why Jay Leno owns so many cars the dream is you keep that car that you

can't believe you ever had a chance to own and you still buy the new whatever that you're excited

about because we have this disease we just we would like a new car experience but what I find

interesting is when you do find those cars in life and for every person it's different that you just

every time you're in it you go oh yeah uh-huh I think the 928 is that you just drove it this past

weekend it's just going to mention that because there's so many cars that are better sure quite

frankly sure yeah yeah but it still really does it for me when it's in its groove and its sweet spot

I still love how it looks I still love how it drives it's thick it's heavy a lot of body roll you

know the things that you could change but that was what 1983 was about and it was this long distance

super comfortable and when I dip into it it's just oh the V8 it's it's so great I still can't get

over how they packaged a V8 in such a low nose that's what baffles me and I'm in love with that

thing weirdly but you know it's it's not the daily it's not the track car it's not any of those

things but well I would submit along these lines your dream car has far surpassed that car the cars

you dream about oh if I could only own whatever is way past the 928 but to my point you get back in

that car and you appreciate it fully again and that's where I think these dream cars that we have

if we can realize them and keep them and really appreciate them it doesn't mean we can't move on

to something else Seth can our dream cars change as our skills improve who can our dream cars

be more aspirational our skills improve so my skills want to aspire to this new thing that promises

such performance and power because that's the direction of cars unless car manufacturers finally

build some sort of meata again sure low power lightweight fun to drive sports car will every

manufacturer make that know but if some of them do and then they have the peak 1500 horsepower

EV or CR1 or whatever that is crazy cool I appreciate it but you know it doesn't have to be the

most expensive most powerful thing to be the dream car so our driving skills make that fun low power

car perform better but then you're still good for your driving skills when you do get to drive

a high performance machine Ted Adam Green touches on the Mustang here real quick I don't feel like we

covered this before but the question is Mustang sales are down even more you're right I mean it's

not selling well how would we change it if Ford gave every day driver the job to redo the Mustang

for the next version from the ground up make it smaller make it smaller yes yes that that is the

headline step one the issue that the Mustang has struggled under is the fact that the Mustang

has become the sports car for Ford I know they've made the GT and other things but right now they're

trying to get the Mustang to be an entry-level car that competes with the GR86 and they're trying

to make it a super car with the GTD that competes with the 911 GT3 and I think we can all agree that a

911 GT3 is a fantastic track car as is the GR86 but they are not the same true okay trying to have

one car cover that span isn't ever going to work it's going to be compromised at every step the

Mustang originally let's go back to the Carroll Shelby quote a nice little secretaries car

but it started a revolution the thing was it was a small car without a ton of engine but it had a

good dynamics and a lot of personality let's make that the Mustang again I'm not suggesting a

Mustang 2 because the Mustang 2 was a disappointment performance wise as well but it needs to be smaller

and it needs to be targeted right down the nose of the GR86 in size in price in dynamics that should

be the target for the Mustang if you want something above the Mustang let's find another thing in

your storied lineup you can make a different car at 7080 grand or a different car at 200 grand

that is your sports car but let's take the Mustang back to small light affordable and let's make it

great at base model that's the thing that the GR86 also does is the fact that between the two models

they kind of drive the same it's extras okay the the base Mustang is because you couldn't afford the

better one let's be honest and it's a decent car but the reason you buy a turbo Mustang is because

you couldn't afford the V8 and you keep as your aspiration is for the bigger one all right yeah

the Mustang little focused direct GR86 competitor and that it would be interesting okay well consider

that the Camaro is dead yes it's out of production huh pony car muscle car whatever you want to call it

the prior challenger hit a real nerve hit a sweet spot in sales yeah good it was the right size

with the Hellcat engine with you know it drove decently yeah it's a big heavy monster big heavy

muscle car real one you know it really struck a nerve with a lot of buyers and you know what they

are cool absolutely but now the Camaro's out of production the charger that replaced that

challenger is now back to Tudor and it's bigger and heavier whether it's an engine an ice engine

or a V yeah and I don't know what the sales numbers are but I haven't been reading good things

so customers aren't really flocking to the bigger car yeah yeah yeah Camaro's gone so now Mustang

can reinvent itself agreed you don't have to keep doing the same thing you don't have Camaro's

competition so you don't have to look at Camaro's and now Chargers to say well that's our competition

we got to make something that is big and heavy as fast as that maybe that muscle car era gets

tabled I'm not saying dies but maybe lighter more nimble better to drive all resonates with customers

more nowadays than it used to will there be that market again maybe so maybe the Camaro will reinvent

itself and it'll come back as a Ford or SUV or something it's going to come back as an SUV it is you

know yes but something I just think those three cars those hallowed cars they're not really

competing against each other anymore true now is the time for Mustang to reinvent itself yes

Phil says when is it safe to whoon your car after a cold start does the engine have to be at a

certain temperature the short answer here Phil is yes if you mean I would like to wind my car out

and get every possible bit of horsepower out of it you got to wait till it warms up now some cars

I'll go back to the E46 BMW if you first started one of those yeah the the actual gauge the tack

brought the red line way down to like 4,000 and slowly as the car warmed up it showed you more

that was available you're like oh that's interesting but you know what the Amira does it too

when I start the Amira on a really cold morning that car red lines at just over 6,500 oh

when I started on a really cold morning that red line digital gauge shows me about 3,500 4,000

no kidding and as it warms up and it happens pretty quick it starts shrinking you can actually if you

I don't try to do this too much but you can actually watch it shrink back because it's a digital

gauge it starts shrinking back toward 6,500 is the car warms up the short answer here is you want to

be close to operating temperature before you're ringing that car out your longevity will thank you

I'll give you give you one story we were at pilgrimage one year a few years ago and the cars

are sitting there in the cold mist and there's fog hanging on the field outside RSR it's a cold

morning but it's gonna be a great day on the ring sun's just coming out trying to set the picture

because it was cold but it was one of those days you're like this day's gonna be awesome I can't

wait for more that sounds amazing people from our group started climbing into cars and they got

excited and they did that thing where we just started the car I want to rev it to hear what it

sounds like and the mechanics came running yeah guys guys guys guys guys guys because the cars have

been sitting cold on it there's please don't rev them until they warm up yes and these are the

guys that are in the shop every night making sure they run well tomorrow so there you go they're

wrenched on quite a lot they're taken care of very well but they're driven by a lot of different

people in a lot of different ways yes Phil that's what that temp gauges for if your car has an

actual oil temp measurement number a lot of the Porsche's do so you can watch the temperature rise

and you can see the temperature up to 194 degrees is your baseline at least for my came and you want to

wait till it reaches 194 degrees and then you're good to go but yeah wait till your temp gauges in

the you know in the sweet spot it's norm operating normally and then that's what it's for but when

you start yeah start driving your car right away yeah you just start it and drive away it gets

it up to operating temperature gets the oil splashed into everywhere in your car in your engine far

more quickly and that's what you want on Instagram part is asking a question that aims is toward

politics and I'm going to try to miss the target his question is do we think the current pending

tariffs are going to cause another wave of high used car prices there's tariffs being discussed by

this administration for things going in and out of the mexico canada border and a lot of cars go

in and out a lot there's lots so there's a lot of potential increase in cost at the moment this

is sounds good as I stand here at the lectern and give a speech it's a bit of saber rattling and I

say it because even though just this week the discussion was these tariffs are happening then I

read this morning that all the us car makers have been given at least a one month reprieve so the

point I'm making here is we don't know how this is going to shake out we don't we have no there's

there's no actual here's the new price of car X we don't know right now right right if these tariffs

cause major spikes in prices there's going to be continued backdoor dealing for how to get around

the tariffs what can we do there's going to be all kinds of stuff I don't even want to guesstimate

to try to solve this but if that let's say all cars across the board in the us go up $5,000 let's

just assume that that's the case all right I don't think it's going to increase the price of

used cars but I think it's going to decrease the depreciation I don't think we're going to have

a covid spike we're now everything is so much more expensive than it should be let's hope not yeah

agreed that was terrible but I do think that what it will do is curb depreciation of the things

that are two or three years old and ban on an instagram asks if something like a synod hybrid would

be better candidate than a Prius to be an eco track car because of its traditional automatic rather

than an ecbt you know what makes for a good track car really is tires yes it's not necessarily

about the transmission although you're going to not love the cbt but look we had that Prius on track

and it was surprising with good tires because you just keep your foot in it and the engine just

keeps screaming and it's the cbt that is taking the brunt of all that that torque constantly yeah

and sure and a traditional automatic sure you can you know definitely drive on track hard to say

that I think that's a wash but whether or not we've had the hybrid on track this is not a hybrid

yeah whichever choice you make I think tires are the biggest thing to think about but look we've

tracked both cars and they're fine they're not meant to be tracked it's not their habitat but they

do okay they'll be that cbt will be screaming it won't like it but okay get it out there

Brad asks on Facebook is the BMW 1M a cul-de-sac car and if not what are some alternatives I want

to come back to the cul-de-sac car problem is you bought a car and there isn't a well now that you

have that you should step up into when it's just in a lips there's no obvious next I think the

one in might qualify and I say that because it is a definitive Frankenstein BMW it was a you know

what we could do from the BMW boffins at the time that that that car was out there they took all the

stuff I like that word yeah I do too they took and I shouldn't say boffins because that means

British engineers but anyway the point is I'm gonna go with it I'm leaning in anyway but that

was all the stuff from the e90 era BMW shoved into the smaller car and they made it work that's

somebody's like weird late-night fever dream project and it worked and it's it's one of those

things like a bulldog where it's so unattractive it works again it's like oh that's kind of

cool looking you know what I mean so it is a definitive BMW also it still has hydraulic steering

the stuff that the M2 took away it still has I think BMW that is that is a turning point for BMW

BMW starts moving toward where they are now which is their internal combustion engine cars and EV

cars are blindingly quick and dynamically good but they just drive the same the one M does not

drive the same as every other BMW get into true so if as a BMW I think you've hit a call to

that car as a driving machine there are lots of other things I'd recommend but they're fundamentally

different than the one M back to the top of the podcast I think if Volkswagen took this

approach for every one of their low low-cost entry-level inexpensive cars from carrying okay they took

one element from all of their other brands for that car it's the new Volkswagen ID dot every one with

Bentley seats sold sold from the real welto Lamborghini whoa totally cover on it like a missile

launch yes whoa this new Volkswagen that what was the second one the ID 2 the ID 2 yeah it has a

two yeah this has the GT3 steering rack every go people would line up with this is by those things with

the old sob 9 2x that I had it was here I go through the parts bin and going let's take the STI

steering rack not the WX and steering rack and we'll make it better just one thing yeah we've got to

keep the cost down but you know what this has the Bentley seats okay some sort of like not full Bentley

but half like they're quilted and not all the power machinations but

steering rack what from howdy could be crib how we'll drive some quadruple from the quadruple why not

see then Volkswagen you can claim that marketing people we are giving you gold here because you can't

just say it's another car that starts with a T and the zero to 60 is X yes yeah oh look this has

five seats and it has is an SUV like the 20 others that we sell that everyone oh one GT3 RS

perfect something that no that that rolls off the time it's perfect guys thank you for your

questions really appreciate it right to us everyday driver tv at gmail.com top Tuesdays

car debates car conclusions we look forward hearing from you and we're looking forward to next time

too cheers everyone

977: Where Fun Goes To Die, Avoiding Crappy Plastic, No Mechanical Sympathy

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