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A beginners guide to winches
About this episode
Dive into the essentials of winches with a focus on beginners and Jeep enthusiasts. The hosts explore the history and evolution of winches from PTO-driven to modern electric models, highlighting key brands like Warn and Harbor Freight. They discuss winch sizing, mounting options, wiring best practices, and the pros and cons of synthetic versus steel cables. The episode also touches on practical tips for winching safely, mechanical advantage with snatch blocks, and common pitfalls with cheaper winches. Personal stories and community comments add a lively, relatable touch to this comprehensive guide.
Topics:
winch basics
winch history
electric vs pto winches
winch sizing
winch mounting options
winch wiring and safety
synthetic vs steel cables
snatch blocks and mechanical advantage
winch brands and quality
practical winching tips
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In this episode, listen in to why winch choice matters. Learn from Neil, Scott and Jeff about the different types of winches, ratings, and purposes. Scott may even find a way to hook to a horse while Jeff and Neil stick to houses. Tune in to hear about their shenanigans with winching and help identify what winch you should buy for your specific needs.
Thanks for listening, give us a review and check us out on YouTube -SFJ4x4 and visit our website to grab some great gear or products for your Jeep, SFJ4x4.com. Don't forget, you can email [email protected] for special content requests, blind react videos, suggestions, special guests, or general questions. Check out our Patreon patreon.com/ISpeakJeep
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Jeep Cj2A
"Just don't. That's unless it's a CJ2A, then I support you. I want to support you too."
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Jeep Gladiator
"...s and they're like, well, I've got a one ton J.T. gladiator. And so I need a 14, 18,000, you know, X, Y and Z..."
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SFJ 4x4 Studios presents, in my oversized four-wheel drive Jeep, a Jeep podcast starring industry
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Say that again.
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My name is Neil with SFJ 4x4 Simpson Family Jeeps.
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Jeff Shramani.
Sick as a dog.
Are you sure?
Nope.
I'm not sure.
It was off work on Saturday, folks.
It should have been off work again today, and so if I get sick, I'm myself and Greg
are the last to fall.
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Where Scott is somehow still sick, so you're stuck between two of us?
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Davey was ground zero.
Davey was ground zero.
Isn't he always?
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The savage is absolutely ground zero.
Every time there's a sickness, it used to be me, I get it.
So this guy didn't get introduced.
Who's the other person in the room with us?
The guy that helped build the sign.
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First.
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Can't wait to get there on Wednesday.
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Morning, good morning, good morning to everybody.
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We absolutely got called out, what was it, a week or two weeks ago?
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Yes, absolutely got called out because I didn't have it up at midnight.
Yep, you did a thing, or didn't do a thing, I guess quite literally.
Didn't do a thing, yeah.
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Charles is also saying good morning from Texas.
Good morning in Texas.
You know what they really need in Antarctica?
A purple recovery strap.
They do.
Two little penguins, you know, kind of tugging each other along with the purple recovery strap.
I support the penguins.
We are going to be re-releasing, relaunching our swag pack giveaway with Scott's famous
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We are continuing.
Second one.
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Roy says good morning and Beth says Archie says good morning.
Oh, good morning to my nephew Archie as well.
All right.
So we are going to be discussing winching 101.
And oftentimes, winch accessories or winching is one of those kind of given things and
we touch on it in little aspects.
And we have absolutely talked about it in part in previous episodes, but I was thinking
like this one should be for the new ones.
Maybe someone just got into Jeeps or they haven't yet bought a winch.
Why do you want one?
How do you put it on your vehicle and what would you use it for?
I think that's great because then there's there's also opportunity.
I did a YouTube's video about a year ago, a little less actually, honestly, it was in
the winter.
So a little less than a year ago where I did a winch.
We used Born Off-Road and we can talk a little bit about that.
And then I did it in an unconventional manner for a multitude of reasons and I do stuff
weird.
Yeah.
So we'll talk a little bit about that because we've never actually talked about it.
You do stuff weird because you're weird.
You do stuff weird because he wants to see how dumb he can make it.
That's fair.
That's not out of the question.
I mean, that's not out of the question.
I want to I want to spark conversation.
Well you like to push the limits and see how far you can take something, so.
That is absolutely true.
This is not meant to do this.
I'm going to make it work.
I am going to push the red button.
It doesn't work.
Huh.
That's fascinating.
Joe says winches are great.
We use it to recover other people all the time.
I love that he put other people.
Yes.
And then Charles said he's using Harbor Freight icon tools right now tearing down a 5.3.
And we'll talk about the Harbor Freight winch today as well.
Yes.
Yep.
Crowd favorite by today's standards.
So where do you want to start, Scott, since this was within a degree your concept?
I think it's important to note that when we were talking about this, you wanted to come
in with another tech heavy subject and I'm like, no, oh, no, I wanted to put you to sleep
talking about canvass communication.
I wanted to get in and just absolutely deep dive into the most arbitrary little minutia
driven which multi grounds low voltage pulse which we will get there just not right
now.
We've just done three tech heavy episodes.
We're not doing it.
I wanted to just lull you to sleep, folks, about canvass communication and modern day vehicles.
I got voted down.
Real quick, Robert says their local parking lot requires a winch.
I think that's fair.
At the mall.
And then we've got Matt saying, good morning, sorry, I'm late.
He better be sorry.
You better be.
Geez.
So anyway, so are you going to start with Bellevue winches?
Are you going to start with PTO driven winches?
Come on, old man.
Where do we start?
So I literally was thinking like, block and pulley.
He's going to want to talk about Bellevue winches.
You know I want to talk about Bellevue winches.
So the first winches, we're literally just dragging things with horses, which is
what we were doing last week.
I love it when you're like, you want to go all the way back the most.
He went back to horses.
Last time when we talked flat towing, he went back to towing and trailering
in general.
With horses.
Let's honestly, do you have a dream to own horses?
Because you bring up horses on every episode now.
He brings up horses every dang episode.
So anyway, so then we go into, you know, it'd be great if these were
somehow mechanized.
So the mechanical horses.
So then we went to if he's not trying to like love and be intimate
with vehicles, so he is daydreaming about horses.
His mechanical horses.
Is that like America round or the carousel?
He's got to have the mechanical horses that go up and down.
They started with, you know, PTO driven.
They did have the wagon ones on the carousel.
Which we're off the rails.
What can I say?
I'm going to drag him back.
So PTO is still like a big rig.
Still to the recovery.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
For the down low grunt.
Yes, we still actively use PTO driven winches.
Joe are one of our foremost recovery
individuals who's involved heavily with the business and is a great
customer of ours is a full time recovery person out of Pittsburgh.
And he uses, oftentimes he'll be in a rotator and rotators are
oftentimes still PTO driven.
Yep.
Have that mechanical advantage is massive compared to electrical.
And then we sort of figured out that, well, OK, now you need a certain
transmission or a certain transfer case to be able to drive this.
You need more driveshafts.
So someone was like, hey, I just need to electrify it.
And the first thing they started with was starter motors.
Yeah, I would love to to obsess on PTO driven winches.
But I think that we need not to for that vast majority.
That's why I'm just doing a quick run through.
I need I need to tell people we're not addressing them.
And if right now you have a PTO driven winch sitting in the back
of your barn and you're like, I'm going to put this on my Jeep.
Just don't.
That's unless it's a CJ2A, then I support you.
I want to support you too.
I want to support you too.
But God, it's so much easier just to put an electrical winch on your CJ2A.
Nate is asking if PTO means paid time off.
You could.
That's how much time you're going to need to winch your Jeep out of the ditch.
Yes, block and tackle it.
And he's, you know, back into those comments,
too, Nate had said he loves his Badlands Apex 12K winch.
He does, however, recommend not losing the wireless remote
before you even install it.
So there's that.
There's Daddy Jeep saying he uses his winch to recover himself
way more than other people.
If you don't, wheel harder.
Yes, that is. That's fair.
So anyways, we go into starter.
You know what? I'm going to stop because here's the thing.
Both Rob and Joe know each other.
I don't think Joe should wheel any harder than he already does.
That's fair.
And so for our listeners out there, if you're looking to follow people's
escapades or understand the nature of some of the people that you too
could be chatting with in the comments, I really think for the sake
of Joe's marriage, he should not wheel harder
because he wheels pretty darn hard.
It takes a lot to break.
Rob just happens to wheel a buggy.
And there is a difference there, folks, in wheelie styles.
Joe's basically a buggy at this point.
Well, he drives like a buggy.
We've got Charles saying he's used his wish to recover his
and I don't see what he means winch to recover his tractor more than his Jeep.
Clearly he meant winch, Jeff. Are you?
Well, maybe he's wishing. I'm reading the comment.
Oh, anyway, we have to stop reading comments and actually talk about winches.
So we are talking about winches.
And then that's when the Bellevue kind of hit the stage
with their starter motor technology.
The only downfall that is a starter motor is only supposed to work for a brief moment.
Yes. And we sometimes winch for long, just longs times, longs times.
So so then you were complaining about my wish.
Also, Bellevue winches.
So this would have been, you know, something period correct for the,
you know, 50, 60s, earliest 70s type era.
And that's a generality.
And there are exact dates and times out there.
Yeah. But the big thing is it didn't have
kind of breaking as we know it off the button that does.
Yeah. And kept life more exciting.
And it didn't have reverse or didn't have power out
is what I should say.
So Joe, Joe O'Brien says, Joe, who?
Yes. Exactly. Yes.
So. So then we get into the loved and adored 82 74.
There is no other winch as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah. Everything else is just an imitator of the 82 74.
If you don't know, now you know.
Yeah. And the 82 74 has such amazing
had a devotees pedigree and a long story short,
so much so that Warren had to re-release it in a couple times.
Yes. And any anniversary, Warren has just released,
re-release the 82 74.
Correct. And the big thing about the
74 is it's kind of a it looks vertical for the average viewer.
That's the one that kind of looks vertical.
But most importantly, the mounting surface
actually is in the front, front facing.
Yes. So you're actually pulling against your mounting surface.
And so you're the bolts are simply friction kind of
I don't want to say friction fit by just holding the resisting gravity.
Yeah, they're just resisting gravity versus when you are winching,
you're actually winching your standard winch by all other means.
You are actually winching against the sheer force
of the hardware that has taken to affix the winch to the vehicle.
Yeah. And the best use of a 82 74 is for decoration on a vintage CJ.
Doesn't even need to work.
That's true. And it doesn't need to be a nerd out.
You can go into serial numbers and find out when your your winch was born.
I am, in fact, in two 82 74 groups, they are actively used.
Actually, if you're watching any of the modifiers and the original ones,
correct? Yeah. And if you're watching any of the kind of the competitive
off-road events from from Eastern Europe to, you know, Southern Russia to
Egypt, wherever, you know, Asian markets, they actually actively use modified 82 74.
It kind of looks like at that point, one of those big tractors,
they pull at the fairs where there's motors hanging off every direction.
They've really taken it next level.
But anyway, it's a gear driven assembly.
You if you want the deep dive, you can.
And then you can also write warren a letter.
And I've heard they will send you a care package for your 82 74.
They they they do.
And they make all parts.
82 74 is one of the few winches that's still made in the USA.
And arguably almost all parts are available for the 82 74,
unless you get into some really obscure things.
The other piece is you can actually have a Jeep branded 82 74,
yes, which would have been a dealer manufacturer option.
And you you too can have one with a sticker swap.
That's true.
So anyway, so then we go into our more traditional winches.
Anybody that's been in the game for the last 25 years is going to recognize,
again, they both sort of down on the bottom versus 82 74.
Then we can get into minutiae of like, well, that one is restricting my air flow
and it makes my vehicle overheat and the Audi, Audi, Audi.
So now we've gotten into where we sink them into the bumper and all that good stuff.
Yeah, I think, again, I'm going to reinforce this is a one on one.
So if you're if you're listening, watching, enjoying this particular program,
this is a one on one. We're not.
I mean, Scott and I will absolutely nerd out with you.
If you want to reach out to us directly and email or text on the 82 74 groups.
Yes. And if you want to nerd out about PTO driven winches or drums or windings,
I can totally get into that and slay.
That's not what this is.
This is about putting a winch on your Jeep and going to the local meet and
greet or weekend wheeling speaking of which.
So they're looking at all the many options of winches from 1500 pounds
to, you know, 18,000 pounds.
How do they know which one they should use?
Well, my general
my general sentiment to people would be two and a half times
the weight or load of your vehicle.
And that's not what you think it weighs.
That's what it weighs. That's correct.
So this is your this is your call to action to go weigh your Jeep, right?
So we can we can do generalities.
And and so I think that's valuable to say that the vast majority
of the Jeep and off road community is for what we produce
and what we share is a generality, the bell curve of consumers, right?
And then it is a degree of your responsibility to deep dive yourself.
But we're happy to go down that path with you if you need us to.
But realistically, like air pressure, I can give you a generalization.
This is what the broad majority of people do.
So realistically speaking, it is my general opinion
that the majority of Jeeps weigh around 4,500 pounds.
Give or take a few hundred pounds.
And so an eight to nine five works for most of our T.J.
Y.J. C.J. vehicles.
Correct. But once we get into J.K.s, especially for,
you know, more doors for other people.
Yes, four doors for more people. Wow, Scott.
He wanted he wanted to make that the after hours.
He wanted. But I resisted.
Anyway, then we should get into a little bit more of a serious winch.
A robust polling power, yes.
And realistically, this is where the 10,000 and 12,000 pound winches
really kind of make their mark in our community.
Right. And so this is where we get into the heavier J.K.'s,
the J.L.'s and certainly the J.T.'s.
This is where we get all excited around 10 and 12,000 pound winches.
And I've seen people, J.T.'s go even above and beyond,
depending on how overlandy they are.
Oh, without question.
The other piece is a general a generality is cheaper winches
tend to kind of market themselves or exemplify
their immediate polling power.
So this is where I see a lot of the Amazonian winches
coming in on J.T.'s.
And again, it's specific J.T.'s because I think there's a lot of J.T.
owners who go to their local social pages.
Whatever it is going on there, folks,
there's a lot of misinformation largely on the J.
I mean, it's all over the Internet.
That is, of course, a world we're living in.
Yeah. But J.T. owners are more surrounded.
Nothing looks sweeter than like an 18 K winch.
But the cable is equivalent to a 9 K winch.
Yeah. Right.
And and so you're going on to these forums and they're like,
well, I've got a one ton J.T. gladiator.
And so I need a 14, 18,000, you know, X, Y and Z.
And fortunately, our Amazon markets will support you in that.
I don't know.
Now, here's a here's a piece.
And this is just from a one ton gladiator.
Saying this saying one ton gladiator owner.
I'm going to again, throw out a broad statement.
When we do cheaper alternatives
and I'm going to relate this to to tires,
I'm going to relate it to winches.
It's it's cheaper for a reason
and you have to sacrifice something somewhere.
And so like a cheaper tire that might have, you know,
be made out of a less quality rubber,
they add more radial bands to reinforce it.
A winch when it is an affordable 14 to 18,000 pound,
because that's what we're talking like a tow truck operator
should have a couple of those on the back of their swing.
And they're going to be thousands of dollars.
They're going to be thousands of dollars, three ish.
At least started for a commercial grade.
At least that's starting.
And you're finding one for five hundred dollars.
There's there's some they have given up something.
Something now in order for them to give it that weight rating,
they will give you a kind of a finite measurement
at which they have made that determination.
So typically speaking, that 12, 14, 16, 18,000
pole is based on some configuration.
They don't actually have to super disclose
unless they are trying to meet particular industry standards.
Most are the first wrap off the drum.
And it's for a brief second.
It's as a single line pole for a very short period of time.
Yes, they do not have a robust duty cycle.
And that is what is going to be really important
for the average consumer understanding what sets winches
apart via price point is largely going to be
duty cycle and longevity.
And and really the biggest takeaway from this is we're not telling you
not to buy a cheap winch, but just have your expectations appropriate.
If you want to experience the winch life and put one on your Jeep
and go pull some bushes out of your yard and, you know, try to pull a house
when I get stuck in the field, then then I actually that's fine.
But just be OK when it breaks and it no longer functions
like your purple strip.
I'm going to actually say I'm not OK with you putting
an Amazonian 18000 pound winch on your Jeep.
If you're that guy, I'm going to be like, you're that guy.
And I I support people being that guy or that gal in life.
That's OK.
But I'm definitely going to judge you.
So the other thing is the pulling bushes or trees out
is something that depending on your type of winch,
maybe you shouldn't do that.
I've seen plenty of times where the cable flies back at people
because they're that's true.
There they need to learn how to use the winch.
Yep. I'm all I was trying to say is like I had the difference
between a steel cable and a synthetic. Absolutely.
Well, we're going to get there.
We're going to get there in a in a gross.
The best way I can explain is I had a cheap winch on my ATV.
I totally abused it.
Totally broke it.
And that's where I learned.
And it was kind of OK that it was a, you know,
eighty nine dollars Harbor Freight winch at that time
because it didn't cost a lot of money to learn.
I didn't have a big thing.
That's all I was trying to explain.
I think what's super valuable is I'm not I'm not having any
consideration about price point on winches.
Like I that's not really something other than the fact that
I think that it's fair to say that around three thousand dollars
is a starting price point on a commercial winch.
I support you in buying a five to eight hundred dollar winch
all day long.
What I don't support is you buying a five to eight hundred
eighteen thousand pound winch for your Jeep.
That simply doesn't mean that you are uneducated.
You have not taken time to educate yourself and you're just
you're just buying the fad.
You're buying you're buying because you think you're buying something.
You're not.
And sadly, winches are something that there is a fad.
Like if you go on and you'll see even the cheap ones have to have
a wireless remote now, they're trying to put synthetic on them really.
Early in the price point, they try to have flashy colors and fancy
fairly very, very ergonomic ergonomic and pleasing body designs.
Yeah.
I mean, here's the thing, folks.
I mean, back in the day, a winch.
I mean, which is at its its most basic configuration is a motor,
which is an electric motor.
Again, we're focusing largely on the electric.
Again, the eighty two seventy four is gear driven.
So there's gears on one side of it.
But you basically have a motor and then a drum.
And in that motor, there is a series of windings, maybe a base gear reduction.
And a planetary of some sort.
There's a planetary of some sort.
Increases torque torque multiplication.
Same way your transfer case does for low range.
Right.
The biggest difference I've seen because I've actually torn
apart the winches I break is the cheaper ones will have
plastic or nylon gears inside them, which are about as strong as you can imagine.
Yep.
Step up from that is the centered or cast gears, which are yay,
they're metal, but not much better.
That's what breaks.
Right.
The motor will keep motoring.
The drum will still be a drum.
The planet and the gearing will just come apart.
Right.
And then ultimately, all you had to do is much like
an electric motor of any other sort, you basically have to give it power.
And that's that's what that control box is, is you either have, you know,
positive power in one direction and the windings go one way.
And really at one time, that was done with solenoids and of really
complicated looking wiring schematic with big cables.
And at this point, we've done solid state stuff that can do it
with relays relatively easy.
Yes.
And half the size and half the weight.
And so original winches.
So for an example, the Warn M8, which is also a USA made winch has this
and it's electric, which would be appropriate for the.
It's electric.
But I had to.
But but but but but but but but but but but but but but but.
I'm a little too far.
I understand that somebody had to.
So I just didn't expect it to be you.
So the big I mean, he threw the he threw it up and then I had to run with it.
Well, yeah, of course.
So the M8 is very simple.
I love the M8 because it means something to me.
It means that you have an understanding and appreciation for the Spartan
and and and kind of rugged nature that Jeep was.
You know, the M8 don't need fancy covers.
The M8 don't need your sass.
I mean, it doesn't apologize to anybody.
It's again, US typically, there is actually a now for price point specific.
There is an overseas M8000 available.
But but Warren literally last I knew had both.
And if you were undiscerning, the only thing that sets them apart
is about a thousand bucks.
Otherwise, they write and read the same the same way.
One is, you know, $2,000.
And one with that said, I've eight hundred dollars torn apart.
My entry level worn and inside, they're pretty darn good.
They they have to have a certain quality to have the big W on the front of them.
Sure. And and and so I think it is a value to mention that,
you know, over the course of the years, obviously,
Warren is one of the largest originators in our specific
market in an off-road industry, but that is Ramsey has focused heavily
on the commercial grade market and military contracts.
And and then Myle marker came on and has, you know, Myle marker,
one of the engineers at Myle marker was a huge driving force
in this kind of waterproof, submergeable winch market.
That's Smittybilt, 100 percent robbed from them with non
waterproof switches, 100 percent.
And so Myle marker certainly had its heyday and and and kind of engineering.
And I would say that's our first mousetrap of trying to be better
than the other winch without doing anything fancy, because really,
if we're down to it, any winch can be dunked in water and taken back out
and it will continue to work.
That's absolutely correct.
Now, should you, you know, clean it out and take care of it?
Yes, just like you should, your starter after you go and swim
in water pasture headlights, no one ever does.
But you should. Right.
And a little gasket maker between the motor and the case
doesn't really make a hell of a difference. No.
The saying, especially when your electronics aren't waterproof.
Smittybilt, I'm just going to keep one out there.
It is the thing. If you are a person who put a Smittybilt on your jeep
back 2015, you know, maybe 2018,
I just recognize that you went to four wheel parts
and that's the marketing that you subscribe to.
That's, you know, it's kind of in a similar capacity
when I see the 14 to 18000 pound winch on the front of a gladiator.
I would I would even argue that they didn't necessarily go to four wheel parts,
but they were on Quadratec or one of those big, big sites that just push.
Was a mass marketing, a kind of a cookie cutter design.
Now, the XRC H2O or X2, whatever, whatever, you know, they did.
That winch did work.
And so in their defense, it did work as the switches went bad.
100 percent. Another thing, again, when you buy an off winch,
you know, super winch or any of those kind of things,
if you go and break it, you pretty much have a boat anchor.
You're trying to not going to go get parts for it.
So Super Winch was a really reputable winch builder in the seventies and eighties
at one time. Once upon a time.
And this is also valuable for us to note, folks, that many of the winch
manufacturers that we are even Smittybilt of sorts,
was a brand that was here based in the States, right?
And then as global markets prevailed,
and I support global trade, the race to the bottom on price, the race
to the bottom on pricing affected our consumer experience.
And if you entered the market somewhere in the race to the bottom,
you don't have any other perspective.
You don't get to know what it was like before we were inundated
with these crappy knockoffs of name brand products simply because they
were trying to advertise to a price point.
I didn't have a winch 30 years ago because I couldn't afford one
until I found an old stinking Ramsey that I could kind of play with
because I was in the mindset at that time.
I needed a good quality one.
And the global market winches had just started to come on to the market.
You could get parts for that Ramsey and you could clean it up
and you could fix it and that kind of stuff where even with the Smittybilt
they it's one of was one of the biggest selling winches.
I don't know if it's still is or not.
Don't honestly don't care.
Right.
They have evolutions.
They keep adding, you know, vowels to the end of it and letters
and they are different than the previous versions.
Correct. And you're not going to buy service components for it.
Right. You break it.
It was cheap.
You go, well, that was fun.
And you throw it away and you start over.
And that race in the 70s was worn and super winch and mile marker
and Ramsey, they were authentically selling winches that could be rebuilt.
They were serviceable.
They were intended not to become boat anchors.
Yes.
Post use, you know, and really when they start cheapening up again,
like I said, there's motor quality, you have your gear train
that you even get down to coatings and protecting from salt.
That's one thing that I can speak from an experience.
So that's where worn cheapens up on their entry level winches
is the coatings are a little to be desired.
Yep. You get more corrosion on the outside of the winch.
In the comments here, we've got Nate saying he's got a new worn
VR Evo 10 S, but he's not sure about stepping down to 10 K
from the apex 12 K on his gladiator.
Just to put it out there, I have a 10 K on my gladiator
and I have winched many vehicles out, more random trucks and cars
than I have jeeps just on the sides of the road
and other than being a little dirty and crotty from driving it a lot.
It's it's it works and if you're and I have recovered myself with it,
I've recovered Scott with it like it.
It works had to put that in there.
Well, I'm well, you did, didn't you?
That was an unnecessary detail.
Well, that was an unnecessary detail.
Let me finish.
And Scott has the same winch and has recovered my gladiator with it.
I have off his JK when he had the JK.
So and I'm so cheap that I took it off.
We took it off the JK from the previous or the owner, new owner of the JK.
And it was tired and corroded and stuff.
And I'm so cheap, I took it apart, inspected it all,
cleaned it, sandblasted it all, put it all back together.
And it is currently on my JT.
Oh, my gosh, true.
So true. And here's the thing.
Well, there you go.
And don't don't worry about it.
It works previously winches.
The winch cases were, you know, primarily as steel or, you know,
a brushed aluminum body that was again, a quality aluminum housing.
And so corrosion on externally was less of an issue where now we're
more of a pot metal aluminum, which is powder coated,
but kind of a cheap powder coat so it comes off in sheets.
I can tell you why.
And we're we're seeing it across multiple manufacturers.
Now, I guess as we progress through this,
we've kind of outlined some of the mechanisms of which they work.
I want to make sure that we do talk about modern air
and how it applies to people and also the wiring capacity
or not wire capacity, but wiring in general.
I suppose the last piece I should mention
the 10,000 and 12,000 piece, in my opinion,
and I absolutely support people on the Apex 12,000
of the Harbor Freight.
I ran Harbor Freight winches and this sounds so dumb.
I ran Harbor Freight winches before they were cool.
Yep. And they're a great trailer winch.
Yeah, I mean, we've had them on trailers for years long
before the Apex, the Badlands stuff branding came out
and was was was utilized and marketed
because ultimately this this conversation about race at the bottom
when when we started the global trade market in the 90s
and we started to see an inundation of affordable winches.
Again, they weren't affordable previously.
That's why you had a tow truck company
and quite frankly, jeeps, not every single jeep owner
had a winch on the front of their vehicle.
No, it just wasn't what it is.
You had a winch, buddy.
You did. You had a guy in your group.
In fact, folks, it was a talking point of mine
when a club or one was going to have was going to happen.
I mean, I was still in in 2012 to 2014
when I was doing like how to clinics and stuff
and you were going to go out where recommendation was that
of your party, you had at least one winch equipped jeep.
Yeah. Now it's almost like having, you know,
floor mats in your vehicle to have a winch on your jeep.
Real real fast.
Since you mentioned trailering anyways,
Jeanie is in the comments saying now that she's done trailering.
Hi, everyone, and hope you had a great weekend.
And then I was going.
His 12 K is going to go to his kids, TJ, then,
and he just wants to put the fancy new one on his gladiator.
And then
Charles says, I got a tractor supply winch.
That's eight years old.
Absolutely. And so really my biggest problem
I have with current harbor freight winches
is the switch they give you
right at the battery to turn it on and off
and the big fuse relay thing that they try to do.
And if you look at any other brand,
you just hook directly to the battery and it's OK.
So to me, that means that either
they don't have confidence in your use.
They don't have confidence in their electronics,
having power all the time, something there.
But you cannot effectively fuse a winch
and then use it to the inch of its life
because you will burn something down.
Yes, things gets hot.
Yes, cables can smoke, all that kind of stuff as can happen.
But to me, that's just being not realistic
right out of the gate for the harbor freight winch.
Other than that, I think it's a good product.
Obviously, they have ran with the I need synthetic
canada fancy hook.
I need some plastic covers to make the winch look cool.
Yes.
With their brilliant as far as marketing
on their apex line, you get a lot for a reasonable cost.
Yes. With that said, I was shocked at the 12 K price
that we're basically in cheap worn territory, in my opinion.
And at that point, I'm just going to buy a worn
just because then I know the brand I'm buying it from
where Harbor freight in three to five years
are going to change the winch again.
And that winch you have is going to fade off into the sunset.
Right.
It certainly has been their modus operandi at this point.
You know what I mean, that that is what they tend to do.
You were talking about the talking points
with clubs and stuff and Rob is saying
ban on black trails require a winch.
So I went from, you know,
what somebody in the group needs to have a winch to know
if you're on this trail, you need to wait.
There's an interesting question for Rob is a size requirement
for black trails.
Do you have to have a certain size winch?
Because I know a guy that he's a little bit of a strange duck,
but he has a five thousand pound winch on his CJ five.
Yes. And he brings many blocks and tackles.
And if he needs to pull more,
he puts two or three or four parts of it.
Well, and so let's let's kind of talk about that for a second
because I we can't do two parts.
And I love this subject.
And I still want to talk about how we put it on your vehicle.
Correct. We need to talk about that.
And we need to talk about how winching used to be done.
And so back in the day, all of your Peterson rags or JPs,
it specifically stands out to me.
That was largely Australian markets.
And there was these really robust kind of world travelers.
I remember guys going into South America.
Where you really have to make it work with what you brought.
Correct, where you that the concept of prepare to self recover
was is is not just something you say, but something you live by.
Right. And you might be out in the middle of the desert
with no tree, with no rock and no other person.
And you're going to have to be able to create a land anchor
to winch off of. Additionally, I tell you,
it's almost a little bit like hiding underneath
with my desk or rolling when I'm on fire.
I thought that was going to be a bigger problem growing up from the magazine.
Quick sand, quick sand, quick sand.
Quick sand.
Dude, I probably needed a land anchor for a long time.
I was convinced I was good.
I know how to dig a land anchor because I obsessed over it
because Peterson and Rick Payway told me I needed to know
how to dig a land anchor in my land rover off in Australia.
You know, and I've got to tell you,
there's always been a tree or some other unmovable object so far.
Well, I want to know if somebody has dug a land anchor.
If one of our listeners has dug a land anchor
authentically because you had to, I'm going to give you a T-shirt.
I want you to email us.
I know you have to.
There was one time I could have done it and used other vehicles
and winch them into it just slowly making headway
until we could strap to something else and did not dig a land anchor.
Oh, my gosh, I really you're absolutely right.
It's like quick sand or or any of these other
childhood issues. Drop and roll.
Yes, or hiding under our desk in case of a tornado.
Yes, trapper keepers.
Land anchors.
OK, so I want to address your commentary about Harbour Freight
and their self-setting relay.
I absolutely think that it as a corporate legal jargon issue
that they include that as an insulatory manner
against the general consumer using their product.
Real fast, Rob did answer and says they do not have it documented,
but they did have a Jeep with an ATV winch once that they turned away.
Of course. Good for you, Rob.
I support you. Of course they did.
But here's the thing about winching.
And so back in the day.
And again, I'm going to get stuck on the old school stuff to the new age.
They didn't have tow trucks and what not.
Didn't have the robust, you know, nature winches that we currently have.
What they did was they they did mechanical advantage
through snatch blocks or block attack.
A pulley system through a pulley system.
And so the it slows it down,
but it multiplies your force, the mechanical advantage of the pulley system.
And so most, if not all of these weight ratings,
whether we say it's an eight thousand, a nine, a 10, 12, so on and so forth,
is a single line direct pull for a short period of time.
And that is how they rate the winch.
There are standardized rating processes.
But if that winch manufacturer doesn't give a flying fig
about having a particular certification,
which is enter the eight thousand pound winch conversation,
you can say that, yes, it pulls 18000 pounds
for six seconds on a single line pull.
That's all they need to do.
And then they market it.
They can back up their supporting documentation.
As they say, yeah, I pulled 18000 pounds
as a as a as a as a single line straight pull, nothing broke.
And it was seven seconds
unless they're trying to actually do an appropriate accreditation certification
process, there's not a there's not a standardized body
that stops people from just selling junk per se,
especially when everybody is worried about line line speed
and wireless remotes and how pretty the winch is.
Yeah. So there's there's quite a few people who can utilize.
And so back in the day, they did utilize these polies or snatch blocks
to add, you know, mechanical advantage
and it's a turbo for your winch.
Yeah, an increase.
So it's slow down the speed.
But, you know, kind of simple, simple physics.
It just it made you be able to pull anything
so long as the bolts didn't break.
And honestly, yeah, which is why there's less stress on them.
And they do 74 is actually an eight K winch.
Right. Back then you just added.
You know, that's box and box and got it done.
In fact, there's a guy on the Internet.
His name is Matt.
He was less popular than the Western version, but still, you know, pretty popular.
And he got a namesake for doing recoveries in the Southeast.
And he did some of the most gnarly recoveries I've ever seen.
But he would have no problem running, you know,
three or four snatch blocks and tripling or quadrupling his winch line.
And it was amazing to watch that happen.
Well, even going back to the basics of understanding
pulley systems and how that works, rope rescue in the fire department,
we would use multiple pulley systems to allow us to pull people up out of ravines.
Did you use a horse?
There was no horses.
He pulled a horse out of the ravine.
That's what and Joe Bryan's bringing up homes.
Homes, winches as well.
There's another commercial grade winch manufacturer.
There's a bunch of these old ones that I can totally nerd out on.
But as far as, you know, kind of creating redundancy in the line pole
and and then the the self resetting
again, relays of sorts that the Harbor Freight comes with their circuit breakers.
Yeah. Yeah.
How how would you like to encourage people to wire?
Because we've we've seen the good, the bad and the ugly.
We've seen people try to fuse them.
Yeah, don't don't fuse it.
Don't don't put the massive
will short out in anything.
It gets close to circuit breaker block attached to the battery.
Well, try to route your cables away from abrasion.
So here's the challenge then, right?
Because I get a lot of safety conscious
customers calling in or showing up with their jeeps or whatever.
And they're like, OK, but if I'm going to use a zero gauge wire
or two or four, you know, kind of starts to get too thin on us.
I say no winches or come with a single lot.
Right. So.
So if I'm going to use that big wire, you're going, OK,
well, you want me to go direct to the battery and then
travel all the way out to the front or to the rear, depending
what happens if it starts to, you know, make contact with the frame.
Right. So.
And that's when you have to appropriately route it.
You have to appropriately she that it's still the best way to
if you're going to actually use the winch, attach it directly to the battery
because you as you add things between the winch and the battery,
you're increasing resistance.
You're increasing places for it to be loose to create heat.
Increasing. I heard it.
He did it. Whatever.
And that will actually cause a fire when you go to ask the winch
to work, because now we are causing more spots to heat up.
Juggah Jeepers says they would run three or four snatch blocks
on some semi recoveries.
Why didn't we use snatch blocks for your house?
Because you have a snatch block.
Well, because I didn't bring the snatch box that I have.
And two, it was way more fun to daisy change heaps.
That was absolutely.
But so and and the rotator was really cool.
He used snatch blocks.
So the only snatch block I have is for my ATV.
So all right.
You use a purple strap to try to pull out a snatch box.
You really care about a little tiny snatch block at that point.
Anyways, any hoos.
Holy crap.
Understand that many of the affordable winch manufacturers.
I'm going to reinforce this are not sheathing the cables.
They're just they're they're saving pennies where they can.
Absolutely. And the wire material and the actual jacket around the wire.
Yes, there is so many ways they're cheapening up these.
And and and arguably that jacket or insulation or sheathing
specifically on the winch wire itself has to be a priority or concern for you
because as you are doing a sustained severe duty cycle,
meaning I'm doing a lot of winching, you're going to build up heat in that wire.
That's that's a given.
We don't we don't get to pretend that doesn't exist.
You're going to be to build up heat as heat happens in that wire.
Insulation naturally thins.
And so it's going to become more pliable and it's going to naturally thin.
If it has already been brazing, rubbing on,
I see a lot of people run them through their their grills back in the day
when we had metal grills.
If you're running them through a core support of the radiator,
you're you're running it down along the the frame rail.
And and now you've got something, you know, maybe you had a cruddy.
Oh, God, what did we see?
We saw somebody who went to another shop and got inner liners installed.
When they installed the inner liners, first of all, inner liners oftentimes
have sharp edges and almost always almost always.
That's why they're so cheap because they're not a finished product.
So if you've got cheap inner liners, you could have a sharp edge.
And and dose they had ran tech screws through the inner liner
and it was protruding out the other side of the inner liner.
So the self tapping screw was just not being thorough.
And again, when you go to use a winch at its limit or a lot,
either one, you should be inspecting your equipment.
Should be inspecting the cable.
You should inspecting the wire.
You should be servicing it correctly.
I know most people don't, but that's when problems around.
We've seen the winch wires, too, where it's half the wire is gone
and it's corroded and we're going, yeah, how is this not burnt down yet?
And and so that's the big thing I encourage you to go out.
And if you haven't looked at your winch wiring recently,
look look at it now just to ensure that that that you can.
If if a disaster can be
avoided, that you are, right?
And again, you're going to want good, solid connections at the battery
because if it's a loosey goosey anywhere that you do not have
a good connection or you have some abrasion or you have that corrosion,
you're going to create more resistance.
Increased resistance creates more heat.
It's an electrical version. Again, at the end of the day,
the Harbor Freight, they don't care about if you actually get the vehicle out.
They don't care how you routed the wire.
That's why they give you an on-off switch at the battery,
because that's an isolation for their legal team.
Yes. To not get sued when you run it past your tech screw
and their cheap wire burns your Jeep down.
Right. And you're not you don't blame, you know, the tech screw.
You don't blame the the inner liners that you bought that were flopping
around in the wind and eventually got caught on the wire itself.
And the worst part, folks, we speak to you from a position
where we've physically seen all of this, you know,
we we saw a winch wire on a customer of ours
and they're like, man, we put that on there.
I he's he's a smart character and he felt he did a very good job.
We I believe when he had originally installed it, it did.
And then as he continued to use it, it loosened, it moved
and it got into a position where it started to actually
kind of cut into the the insulation.
And then it fused itself, basically, to the ground, if I
around, you know, and so we were a use, you know, if he would have used
that winch hard, probably another time or two, that things happen.
You would have had an absolute dead short where we would have
Archie Sparky welded those wires together.
And from a position I had a family member who Archie Sparky
and welded his battery to his hood, the entire vehicle goes down.
Once you complete that circuit, there's no going back.
That's just the nature of the beast.
And so, you know, that's bad news bears.
Yeah. But again, that that's showing you where they're
cheapening up the product, how they're making.
How are they getting to that price point to race to the bottom?
It's back to the great parts, great responsibility kind of
conversation. Yes, yes, speaking of that.
So how am I going to put this thing on my Jeep?
So we have multiple ways.
And then again, this is kind of the wild west.
They kind of expect you to figure this out yourself.
Not all winches are made for all the aftermarket bumpers either.
That too.
Just sharing that.
So if you already have a winch or you're thinking about buying
a bumper or vice versa, you really need to verify that those
winches and bumpers have been intended to be utilized together.
And sometimes you can modify them, but sometimes you can't.
They're just not going to work together.
Sometimes they expect you to modify the Jeep when you go to put
a winch on it that you didn't understand when you actually bought
the bumper. If you are lucky enough to have a Rubicon bumper
on the JK on newer, they expect you to buy a tray
and remove the bumper to put the tray on.
It's not a yes, you're winch ready, but you need more parts.
That was the biggest misnomer.
Everybody who had a Rubicon or a three piece steel bumper was like,
I've got a winch bumper.
And it's like, nah, it's just you've got the base come a winch bumper.
Yes, you've got a bumper that could become a winch.
If you have a plastic bumper on your new Jeep, are you in trouble,
Jeff? Or are you have options?
You have options.
But they're they're not great options.
There's limit limitations to those options.
And that is basically you can put a plate over your bumper.
Yep. And now your your winch line is higher.
So now your winch is impeding on your grill and your air flow is restricted.
Ask me how I know. Yeah, but you can.
You can do it. That's how I run mine.
It's a stepping stone option.
And you've been running yours for a couple of years now.
And again, you've already talked about how much you've used your winch.
Correct. And and if you want your winch to be a tongue that sticks out
like eight feet in front of your vehicle, you can.
Yeah. So I he's done this.
I intentionally so I had an opportunity.
We released last year was a company called Born Off-Road.
And Born is my opinion is created to be kind of a competitive
with a Smittybilt brand, kind of a catch all of off-road accessories and options.
And it's a subsidiary of Mishimoto, which is traditionally a pretty good
manufacturer and pretty responsive to the off-road industry.
So, you know, decided to test out their product and they really like all the boxes.
They had a pretty cover.
They had synthetic cable colored synthetic cable.
Yes. I mean, that's right there in people's hearts.
And then they have a wireless remote.
They have a wireless remote.
It's nice ergonomic, lots of, you know, pretty easy to use and understand.
It's got a unique design to it.
It's quite similar to the Warren BR Evos.
Yep. Similar to kind of the market in general.
Really, really happy with the product in general.
But I couldn't just mount it normally.
I wanted to head bumpers.
Oh, yeah, 100 percent could totally have made it make more sense.
But I went with the kind of again,
something that I had read about or seen when we were younger,
thinking that we were going to also be digging.
You know, digging like crowned anchors was
the removable trays that insert into a two inch hitch receiver.
I remember people are like,
well, now I can use them on both ends of my Jeep.
That's 100 percent why I did it.
I was operating under the pretense
that I would put it on this tray.
And the advantage to that is that in theory,
you can unattach it from the front of your vehicle
and move it to the back because he has a hitch in the front
because and then I did a forward facing two inch hitch receiver
on the front of my vehicle.
And I actually took a JL bumper and relieved it to hook on to the JK.
So again, that conversation about plastic bumpers.
I went ahead and hung it off the front of the Jeep.
I think we weighed it between the the tray.
And I use the Harbor Freight tray
because, again, it's we're not lighting the world on fire
for what the product is moving houses anymore,
where, well, I wouldn't be against it.
Maybe we use stretch blocks.
And and and so I could put it on the back of my Jeep.
In theory, I could take it and I could go put it on another vehicle.
Now, the downside, as we had been talked about or, you know, shared
is that when you're creating length over that heavy gauge wire,
it creates resistance and and therefore
makes the the winch less efficient.
And and so there are these things called Anderson plugs.
If you're in the plowing community,
you know that an Anderson plug is this kind of heavy duty.
It allows you to connect heavier gauge wire together.
Now, I think that this particular winch actually is two gauge
and a lot of winches are actually two gauge.
But if you are going to run, you know, 20 to 22 feet,
you you need to step up the size.
You need to step up the size.
Now, I will be factual that rough country literally sells
a kit for you to attach Anderson plug winch cables
on the back of your recovery vehicle or plow vehicle.
And we've sold them to plow truck drivers who want this.
The the idea is that you're going to use this in a very limited capacity.
You're going to use it in a situation where you're looking to do
a straight line pole utilizing snatch blocks.
You're not doing an off the side pole.
If you're doing a side pole, obviously now you're putting a bunch of load
over that two inch, you know, hitch receiver and hitch mount.
It's a very finite manner in space.
It's kind of like talking about Jeff, Jeff going, there's options,
but they're not great options. Right.
You're not going to beat out the heavy attachment of a purpose built
bumper, that Rubicon bumper with the winch tray that they have
that sits down inside the frame rails, which gives you a heavy
serious mounting points.
It's even with the frame is a lot to like about it.
And that's how mine is currently done.
And that's what actually made me think about this topic, is we literally have
all three at the shop most times that you can see the very different
ways that this can be done right with its pros and cons.
Right. And yours is going to be the highest
utilization with best vehicular efficiency.
Jeff's is going to be good utilization with a depreciated vehicle efficiency.
Mine is the worst.
I don't I pull the punches, right?
Right. Like when I made the video and I still stand by it, I have a lot of fun.
And I actually I get a kick out of the fact that when I'm at the mall
or the Walmart with my winch hanging out there, because really,
that's the most I ever get to do with my winch, me and Robert Seaman.
We understand. Yeah.
That that realistically, I get a lot of people
like oh, looking at this weird tongue, this apparatus
that's hanging out at the front of my Jeep, it has it doesn't make sense.
It's hanging. It's it's a foot and a half off the front of the vehicle.
It creates weight way out there.
But I think what's interesting is when you look at exactly how you described it,
price point as well, yours would be the cheapest way to go.
Yeah. Mine's middle of the road.
His is the most expensive way to go.
Potentially. And here's the thing is that mine would have further
utilization if you are a fisherman or you lived in a coastal area where
you were going to run across the stand.
But ultimately, you know, I've seen some really nice pole holders
or fishing gear holders that go into the two inch receiver.
You would be able to do that in the winch
could hang out in the back or in the trunk.
You put your spare tire on the front.
You put your spare tire on the front.
And won't be 1982 again.
A hundred percent. I love that.
I know you do.
And so there are things that do make sense for a very
finite group of people.
It would not be something I recommend it to the average person who goes,
hey, I'd like to be a weekend warrior.
That this doesn't make sense to you the way that I'm doing it.
But I have used it effectively.
I've done and not exactly straight line poles, but off center poles.
But you would not be able to do a left or a right pole, right?
In theory, a winch can pull 180 degrees,
roughly speaking, based on the fairlead.
There are roller fairleads and Haas fairleads based on synthetic
synthetic winch line is a Haas fairlead.
And typically speaking, your steel
lines are going to be on a roller fairlead,
that more traditional type of fairlead.
And if you have cable, you need to inspect it.
Often, you need to have a pair of gloves with you because it will bite you.
And you have to winch with some smarts
because it is got a lot of energy if it was the break.
And once it starts fraying, it starts to be questionable and needs to be replaced.
Now, it can be repaired.
It can be rewoven.
It can be shortened, you know, but we really don't do that anymore.
As as a folks, we have more affordable alternatives
and we typically just replace the wire.
Absolutely. And then you can now get a synthetic cable pretty cheap.
If it was the break, the hook is your most dangerous part.
And that should be attached to something of the cable breaks, which I've done.
It just falls to the ground.
It does still have some energy involved in it, but it is far less than steel.
It is the same reason why we don't use chains for recovery.
Yes, chain has all of this potential energy.
And when it snaps, it goes just flying.
We talked about that last week and the flat towing
steel stainless steel cable has yet more energy.
And the the synthetic line has the least amount of recovery energy of which
that's another thing I've seen them cheapen out on is they use steel
cable, not stainless cable.
I was going to say. Yes.
And steel cable should be treated with some type of protectant
like a fluid film. Again, that's what we used to have to do.
As if you see an old like if you see an old school tow truck in the boneyard,
you're going to see that cables all flashed over.
That's because that would have been one of the things that they did.
They would have been responsible for oiling their cables,
replacing periodically and and maintenance in their cables.
They would pull the cable out.
They would have to inspect it.
That's when we took pride in our in our occupations or in our expectations.
Now it's this fast paced consumer based market and I and I get it, folks.
I do. As far as synthetics are concerned,
I still value the Spydera winch cable by worn as the cream of the crop.
It's awesome.
I do genuinely believe that that's still one of the best winch lines.
However, I mean,
oversee markets are great at producing unique products.
And so there is a lot of good synthetic, you know, stuff available.
So I don't have a lot of reservation that it has a lifespan.
Sun does not do nice things to it.
Keep it covered. Keep it covered.
It's kind of like tires.
They will age out and an affordable synthetic will age out faster.
It'll have it'll break down faster in UV exposure.
So if it's just there hanging on the front of your Jeep,
you're like, I've never used this, but you've had it on there for 12 months.
It might already start to fade.
Absolutely, especially if you go with the cool color, especially.
There's there's there's so much to this particular one.
And I I really appreciate the suggestion as far as a generalization.
We encourage you to have a winch.
I I'm not down talking to buy any standpoint.
I and I just for reiteration and summation
roughly two to two and a half times the the the actual weight of your vehicle
is authentically where your winch cable should be.
Check the specs as how they have rated their winches.
You know, single line poles, duration, so on and so forth.
Be realistic about how you are going to use your winch.
If you think that you are a person
who is going to become competitive with your Jeep,
you're going to want to pay for a winch that has a more robust lifespan.
By today's standards, the vast majority of people are choosing synthetic
over stainless steel, winch line, but choose whether it's steel or stainless
and and make sure that you are choosing a brand
that you believe has a appropriate volition and fall through from a consumer standpoint.
Now, I know we didn't get into how to winch and techniques and things like that.
Maybe in a future episode, we're not going to do it next week,
but maybe in a future episode, we'll break down more about how to do recovery,
how you should set the vehicle up and how you can do it safely.
Absolutely. Ground anchors and off straight line poles.
I feel like we need to do a ground anchor challenge here.
There's so many things that we would like to get to.
But we have a lot of Jeeps to build.
And we think so many of our great customers
and our patrons and our listeners and viewers
for ensuring that this brand continues to grow
and take on all our daily challenges.
Obviously, first and foremost, those physical Jeeps that we're responsible
for building are our biggest and greatest priority at this moment.
But as we continue our media pursuits, we're getting more and more demand.
Maybe some of those challenges and late night episodes
will become more of a realistic opportunity for us.
But until then, we've got a lot of Jeeps to build.
So Jeep on Jeep on Jeep on.
I just have to say the ground anchor thing.
Scott's building has the best and most robust ground anchors
or will out of anything I've ever seen.
Yeah, that's the funniest code issue.
And that I actually know the guy was responsible for that and everything.
I think that's just too much. That's just too much.
We're not in the Midwest and tornado alley.
So we don't need that.
I think Jagger Jeeper comment there about the Mini Cooper.
I did need a winch on it.
We'd actually talked about just as insight,
we'd actually talked about doing a follow up video,
just mounting up a dumb little like ATV winch on the Mini Cooper.
Anything is enough.
Anything is. Yeah, what?
Anything is an off road vehicle once.
So that's true.
I enjoy the Mini too much as far as a little sporty runabout.
But anyhow, speaking of weekend and personal things
on unrelated necessarily to the Jeep life per se.
Anything like your guys's world on fire.
Well, I know it was happy anniversary. Just got an Amy.
Oh, that's true.
Yep. Saturday was my 17th wedding anniversary.
So after work, we 17th, huh?
Yeah. OK.
Just getting up there.
We took the 36.
Just two of us went to the beach, wandered around, found cool rocks,
went home, grabbed the kids, stuffed them in the car.
And we took route 20 all the way to Erie
and did some shopping.
Then we had our Pomani brothers, cheeseburgers.
I was cracking up at your post.
I knew I was spilling it wrong.
I just I didn't see it. I missed it.
He wrote Pomani brothers.
Wow, it's whatever.
Anyway, and it was just so cool to be on our way home.
You know, obviously it's in the dark.
And I'm like, we're in an 89 year old car,
you know, just enjoying life.
And so many people I know that have vintage cars are like,
well, I got to be home before it's dark.
And I got to have this.
I got that.
You're just not enjoying it the way it should be.
The way you should be enjoying it.
Yep. And, you know, on the way home,
we did come across a pretty bad wreck.
And we had to figure out how to get around it.
And big thanks to our first responders.
We actually beat them there.
We were probably the second cars pull up
and thank you to the people like Jeff.
They came up and was like, hey,
you don't want to go past this accident scene.
You want to turn around and go back,
even though we were no idea where we were.
Thankfully, we pulled out the phones and figured it out
and took some twisty PA roads
and we're able to get up to five from 20 and continue home.
That's a beautiful drive to on a classic car.
Yeah, this time of year.
Amazing.
Yep, so amazing.
That was pretty much in the shell.
My big weekend update.
Nice. Nice. Nice. Nice.
I, you know, as I've disclosed on air
and I'm having my six weeks is allowing football to be,
you know, part of my life again with my son
and having that shared experience.
So I've been trying to catch some hours in the evenings
again. I feel like it's how I was with this business.
I don't know, five, seven, eight years ago or at any odd hour,
you can catch me here because I'm trying to get something
little done, you know.
So I am trying to work on on the Jeep that has the winch,
the winch tongue.
But I also have Rustington, the cheap Jeep,
and I poked away at that this weekend as well a little bit.
So I actually did get an opportunity.
I was really hoping to get Rustington,
despite the fact that he is 100% a basket case of a front axle.
I really was hoping to get him out to Sunnington Off-Road
this coming weekend.
I just don't see that actually happening,
though, based specifically on the season of life
with my family, just with the challenges of younger kids
and spouse priorities as well.
So speaking of football with them,
did you watch any NFL games with them?
Oh, man, you know, I got to be honest with you.
We watched NFL.
We watched College Game Day.
We listened to the Guardians win the division.
Yeah, that was pretty sweet.
That was a sweet way that they wanted to.
It was.
It was super cool.
And sealed the deal.
So it was a big weekend for a lot of that.
Like I said, I was kind of a wheel in constant motion
this weekend.
Still haven't quite caught up on all the things here
that I'm feeling that are critically important.
But man, I feel like we're making strides.
And so I appreciate and value that from all
the assistance from the guys.
And like I said, by my ability to come in off-hours,
I'm really kind of enjoying what I've
got to do jeep-wise again.
Yeah.
Hopefully you'll see me out there tearing up
Rustington.
If you don't know, it's this clapped out.
Because you know I love my pieces of junk.
It's a clapped out 97-98 TJ four-cylinder automatic Dana
35 rear end.
I mean, is absolutely one of the most undesirable TJs
that an individual can buy or own.
And I'm just head over heels about it.
Nope.
Till you break it and then fix it and then break it again.
But my weekend was me recovering from the plague
that Scott and Davey have passed around.
100%.
But the new laser that I talked about last week
did arrive on Sunday.
So I got to help get that set up for Kristen,
even though it weighed a bajillion pounds
and it was massive.
And I had to lug that upstairs with no energy.
But we got that set up for her.
She got to play around with it and really, really cool
that it can do so many different things than what she
was able to do before.
The clear acrylic I thought was really, really fun.
She did a couple pieces of clear acrylic
to put on like the LED bases and light them up.
And I mean, it turned out really good.
That's awesome.
Yeah, I saw the picture of the one.
That's a really neat, creative expression or opportunity
for her and for you guys.
That's a lot that can be done with that.
I think those are a neat gift.
And it came with its own enclosure,
so I don't have to build an enclosure this time.
There you go.
I was going to say, it's a really neat gift and or thing
that people should be able to offer
as part of her small business now
that new laser is able to do it so effectively.
Well, I think that that wraps us up, folks.
Again, we value so much for being part of this program
and for prioritizing listening to us.
As I said, we've got a lot of Jeeps to attend to physically.
Next week, we'll see you at the same time.
Same bad channel.
Same bad channel.
Jeep on.
Jeep on.
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