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AAA Shocks the Auto Industry | Episode 926
AAA Shocks the Auto Industry | Episode 926
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About this episode
AAA's recent report suggests that owning a vehicle has become cheaper, with costs dropping to $11,577 annually. However, the hosts express skepticism, pointing out discrepancies in depreciation rates and financing costs. They discuss how the value of used cars has risen due to shortages, leading to lower first-year depreciation. The episode also covers the rising costs of insurance and maintenance, questioning the validity of AAA's findings. Additionally, they touch on the struggles of Dodge with their muscle car lineup and the impact of upcoming EV tax credits.
Topics:
cost of ownership
depreciation rates
financing costs
insurance costs
Dodge muscle cars
EV tax credits
automotive industry trends
Today on CarEdge Live, Ray and Zach discuss the latest news from AAA. Tune in to learn more! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com
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Too Afraid to Ask
Car
Toyota Corolla
"... ownership. So you can see here for a 2025 Toyota Corolla LE, you should anticipate that it's going to cost..."
Car
Nissan Rogue
"...ther buyer negotiated a $20,500 price on a Nissan Rogue, but learned the promised monthly payments increa..."
Car
Dodge Charger
"... Dad, is Dodge is walking back, the idea that the charger and Daytona were going to be all electric vehicle..."
Car
Dodge Hornet
"...ng more into gas and production of the 2026 Dodge Hornet, one of our preeminent slowest selling cars in th..."
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It's noon here in Ventner City, New Jersey, and our nation's capital, Washington, D.C.
And this is Core Edge Live for Wednesday, September 17th.
With your host, me, Ray in Ventner City, and well, Zach, really, he's in D.C.,
although I believe his heart is in the red rocks.
How are you today, handsome?
I'm pretty stressed out, frustrated and tired.
Let's jump into it, folks.
Today's show is brought to you by Car...
Whoops, today's show is brought to you by Car Edge,
but we're going to talk about the latest and greatest data from our friends over at AAA.
At AAA, dad, new vehicle costs drop to $11,577.
AAA's shown us, dad, that maybe all that we're talking about with the car industry getting out of whack,
things are too expensive, people can't afford cars.
Maybe we're wrong, man.
Maybe we're wrong.
It's actually cheaper to own a vehicle over the most recent year than it was in the year past.
Good news for the auto industry.
I'm not buying it.
I'm not buying it.
I guess the biggest difference I saw when I was looking at the numbers is the amount of depreciation has dropped.
And the reason it has dropped is because, well, newer, lower mileage, higher quality used cars are worth more today than they've ever been
because there's been a shortage of newer, lower mileage, high quality used cars.
So if you factor in that the first year depreciation is less than what it normally would have been historically,
then yeah, I guess you can come to the conclusion that the cost of owning a new vehicle today is slightly less than what it had been in the past.
If we ever return to any sense of normalcy and depreciation reflects what has been the historic levels for depreciation,
then ultimately the cost of ownership will be higher.
So let's look at that data, Dad.
We've got depreciation here is costing on average.
And this is for vehicles over five years and 75,000 miles driven.
Next to costing an owner $4,334 a year and depreciation is what AAA found.
So that's interesting there.
Finance costs $1,131 per year based on a five-year loan with 15% down at the national average interest rate.
I think you and I both know, however, those people are financing for longer with less down.
So I think that's one of the first data points here that comes into a little bit of question, doesn't it?
We've seen that what the average transaction price today is about $48,000.
A little over 40.
Which even if I scroll up, Dad, I'll scroll up just for a second.
They're using an average sales price of $38,938 because they're going back to,
supposedly, if you bought this car five years, but it's still.
Well, we know today that the average transaction price is about $48,500.
We also know today that the average new car finance, the average amount financed is almost $43,000.
And we know that the average new car payment is about $765 a month.
So 10%, so yeah, maybe it's 15% down.
But I don't think that most people are putting 15% down.
You know, having spent 43 years in retail automotive, I can assure you that very few people really had a significant amount of cash or trade equity to put down.
And as long terms get longer, it takes even longer to, well, have any trade equity.
So typically today, people would have negative trade equity to put down and then hopefully some cash to show some participation to the bank.
Yeah, it is interesting, however, Dad.
I mean, this is on the finance side, this is one of the areas where we saw the actual estimated cost to own a vehicle go down.
But again, that's the big story here from AAA is that they've found that it's actually cheaper to own a vehicle today than it was in years past.
Estimated finance costs have decreased to $1,131 in 2025 down 15% compared to $1,332 in 2024.
Please note, sticker price decrease is partially due to new vehicles this year.
But I don't see how that actually can happen because the prices of vehicles have gotten more expensive in the other area where they've found that the cost of ownership has gone down significantly would be fuel prices.
The average fuel cost dropped to 13 cents per mile, a 12.8% decrease from last year, while regular grade gasoline for vehicles averaged 3.151 per gallon down from 3.53 per gallon.
Meanwhile, electricity prices for charging electric vehicles actually rose slightly to 16.7 cents per kilowatt hour up from 15.9 cents.
So these are the two areas.
But I mean, fuel share, that fluctuates wildly.
I knew that finance charges have gone down just as bewildering to me.
Well, I don't know how finance charges could go down as interest rates go up.
Yeah.
And that raises an end.
And go up.
Well, here's the worst part.
Not only have interest rates gone up, but the percentage of people who were financing for 84 months or higher is 20% of those out there.
So there is no way that interest payment is going down.
It's just none of that...
What's the saying?
That math don't math.
You know, you can't extend the loan term at higher interest rates and then say, oh, by the way, the amount of interest paid per year is going down.
It is not.
It is going up.
With less money down in higher negative equity.
I don't know.
I don't quite see it.
Another data point though I want to pull up here and then we'll switch gears just a little bit.
Another data point would be they broke this down by cost of owning different types of vehicles, different categories of vehicles.
And this actually, I love how they did this.
This might be something in the future we'd put on caredge.com.
You can see small sedans that cost on average when we factor in all the different pieces of cost, which again are right here.
Depreciation, finance, fuel, insurance, placement registration and taxes, maintenance, repair and tires.
You can see here it cost 55, man, this is tricky, 55.87 cents per mile.
It's hard to think about .87 cents.
So we'll just round these.
So it cost 56 cents per mile to be driving a new small sedan in the United States of America.
Look at some of the higher numbers here, Dad.
You're driving a, I don't know, half ton pickup.
Almost cost you a dollar per mile, 98 cents per mile hybrid vehicles costing you 64 cents per mile.
EVs costing you 71 cents per mile.
This is as good a time as ever to remind everyone that you can see this information for pretty much any vehicle back on caredge.com.
Just click on research, Acura, do MDX really quickly here.
It's going to take you to this page where you have your cost of ownership.
Shows you the depreciation, insurance cost, fuel cost, maintenance, interest, et cetera.
So a great reminder that we have this data available on a year-make model basis for pretty much all vehicles back on caredge.com.
I needed, somebody needs to help me understand how an electric vehicle that is less expensive to fuel,
because it's, you know, especially if you charge at home at night, that requires substantially less maintenance.
How that would be one cents per mile.
Now maybe that's because of the depreciation of them.
Indeed, Dad.
It's the big D.
The big E strikes the EV.
Oh, I like that.
Look at you.
You're Rhyman Simon at the moment.
What was that?
The big D is impacting the EV.
I mean, the big D is just penetrating the EV and it is taking away the potential, you know, resale value.
For savings.
I hate myself.
Yeah.
You should have stopped while you were ahead.
You know, timing is everything in life and you have to understand that.
You know, you just went a little too far.
It happens.
Can that happen?
It's, I just, any way you cut this.
Okay.
And I believe that some of these numbers are just a tad bit suspicious.
And the reason I say that is we know the cost of maintenance has gone up.
We know the cost to ensure a vehicle has gone up.
We know the cost of the cars have gone up and we know the cost to finance the
cars has gone up.
So when you take all those things that have gone up to suddenly come up to the conclusion
that, well, the overall cost has gone down.
I'm just, my logical brain is going, that doesn't make any sense.
But forgetting that for a moment.
What it says is it's costing you a grand a month to have a car.
And I don't, does that include the car payment?
Yeah.
Well.
So there you go.
It's $964.78 per month is what it costs on average to own a car in the United States
of America.
So that's a new, a new car.
I want to be very clear.
A new car.
So anyway, it went down.
And I think that's what's shocking here is AAA, which is to be clear.
AAA is a nonprofit.
They have no agenda as far as I'm aware.
They just want to sell you their membership so they can give you roadside assistance.
Well, that's a pretty big agenda.
Yeah.
But I don't think this research is really influencing that new vehicle cost drop, which just took
my breath away when I saw it.
Not what I expected at all.
But I think my dad calls out some pretty good points.
And I think in particular, what we're seeing on the depreciation side and the finance
side kind of makes me question how this could be real.
I'm right there with you.
I do think obviously the data on fuel makes a lot of sense.
Gas prices are not that high.
Insurance, man.
We haven't even talked about insurance.
Insurance prices have skyrocketed.
Yes.
I think we're saying cost of ownership has gone down.
I don't know.
It's hard for me to reckon.
You can't tell me that the cost of insurance, which has gone up about 20 to 25% that the
cost of maintenance of bringing a car in for service, which has probably gone up 20
to 25%, that interest rates, which we discussed yesterday.
And one of the words that was used in that Edmunds article yesterday was that interest
rates are at historically high levels, which by the way is pure BS.
I can give you historically high levels when they were in the 17, 18, 19% range.
So new car interest rates at 7% and used car interest rates at 10% are not historically
high.
They are high in comparison to what they had been just a few years ago.
Sure.
But you can't have maintenance go up 20%.
You can't have insurance costs go up 20%.
You can't have interest rates go up 20%, 30%.
You can't have the selling price of the vehicles go up 40% from five years ago.
And then tell me that it costs less.
You can't have all those increases and then have even a minor decline in the...
It doesn't compute in my simple ass little brain.
You got too many things going up for one thing to be going down like that.
How?
How?
How?
So again, want to remind everyone and then we will switch gears back on the CarEdge CarSearch
to go to CarEdge.com, click on Shop New or Shop Used.
One of the great things that we've incorporated into all of our listings is if you scroll
down here, we have cost of ownership.
So you can see here for a 2025 Toyota Corolla LE, you should anticipate that it's going
to cost you $35,108 over the next five years to own that vehicle, 37% of that expense is
going to come from insurance, 26% from depreciation, 19% from fuel.
We've got another 14% from your finance interest charge and another 4% from maintenance and
then you can click into any of these to get even more information.
You can even see here that annual cost of maintenance and likelihood of a major repair.
So this is some of the great information, even the maintenance schedule here.
You can see back on CarEdge.com and then all the rebates, really, really, really, really
strong data that I think you can only get back on CarEdge.com.
Heck, you can even plug this into our lease calculator.
Damn, we got a lot of good resources and it ties in directly here with what we're
talking about with cost of ownership.
So please folks, if you're not using the CarEdge CarSearch to find this information,
you should and obviously, it builds on top of that pretty crazy headline, cost and less,
less supposedly to own a vehicle.
Yeah, let's switch gears.
I think this is one of those classic examples where less is more.
Yeah, it could be.
Absolutely could be.
Want to switch gears, Pups?
Yes.
Alrighty.
Let's hop over here to Automotive News.
Two ex dealership sales managers settle FTC, Attorney General Lawsuit, accusing
them of deceptive practices.
Did you have a chance to look this one over?
Well, I did.
You know, go figure that suddenly there were extra fees and extra charges, especially
on lease buyouts.
Sometimes people got double charged for the certifications and just bogus fees and I'm
sure these sales managers have admitted no guilt, but they have settled.
Yeah, let's read through the article here in just a moment, but before we do, set the
stage, Dad.
We know a lot of people out there are afraid of buying a car, afraid of selling a car
back to a dealer, afraid of all sorts of things that can happen at a car dealership.
The FTC and your state's attorneys general are the folks that go after and try and regulate
this space and make sure that you as a consumer end up not getting taken advantage of.
At the end of the day, allow the responsibility is on you, me, to actually represent ourselves,
say no to things and know what's going on during the car buying process.
What we're going to share with you here in just a moment is a settlement and ultimately,
you know, no one did any any wrongdoing, but you know, there were no wrongdoing, but there
were obviously things going on that were unethical or took advantage of customers that
the FTC and these states, attorneys generals, you know, jumped on.
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Yeah, I believe this was, this particular dealership was in Connecticut, so it's the
Connecticut State Attorney General and the FTC.
The owners of the dealership also own several Nissan dealerships in New York where they settled
a case in New York for the same type of shenanigans.
This is the classic example of a staff at a dealership takes on the personality and
the philosophies of the ownership of a dealership.
If the owners believe that it is in their best interest to create greater profits by being
deceptive and taking advantage of customers, well then that's how their staff is going
to act with those customers.
This is just a shining example of a couple of owners who didn't necessarily have the best
interest of their customers at heart and have gotten caught.
Now, let me actually share with everyone what happened.
Sure.
Is that okay, Dad?
Yeah.
So yeah, you were right.
This is in Connecticut, Manchester, Connecticut.
This is a dealership that settled a junk fee lawsuit brought by the State Attorney
General and the FTC, bogus add-ons, double charges for certified Priam vehicles and fraudulent
government fees.
So that's something you've talked about on this show and back on CarEdge's main channel
many times.
Double check the government fees that the dealership's charging.
Go to your State's Department of Motor Vehicle website and find out what the charges are,
what the fees are for registration, for title, and all the other fees that DMV
might charge.
So, and print them off so you can take them to the dealership.
When the dealership says it's $324 and you can program it's $200, that might be enough
of a signal to walk out of the DM dealership, but that's just me.
So, Dad, like you said, these owners have already paid back $3.2 million in a separate
case in New York, the New York State Attorney General brought to them in restitution
and penalties because they overcharged more than 1,000 customers looking to buy out their
leases.
Now, we got the settlement that was just signed on September 9th, and this is to bring back
and suspended $4.8 million, so it's a penalty of $4.8 million owed back to the state
of Connecticut, which I imagine would then ultimately be put back into the hands
of those consumers.
And Dad, you can see here the attorney that represented the dealership has no comments
or anything like that.
And this suit came in January 2024, so this has been going on for a while.
Here's an example of the complaint.
The customer seeking a certified pre-owned car advertised for $15,700 was hit with a $5,296
junk, quote, inspection fee for a vehicle, the store already inspected.
Another buyer negotiated a $20,500 price on a Nissan Rogue, but learned the promised
monthly payments increased because the store tacked on more than $7,000 worth of add-ons
to the amount financed.
And yet another example, the customer's falsely told Connecticut registration and other fees
were $345 when they were actually only $208.
So these are some of the things to be very clear.
We make the same video over and over and over and over again.
Ask for the out the door.
When they ask you about monthly payment, don't say anything out the door.
This is why.
Do you need to do that at every dealership?
Probably not.
There's a lot of good salespeople, sales managers out there.
You could go and you could say, hey, here's my monthly budget.
Here's what I want to do.
Put the buy chance you run into this group.
No, you stick to OTD, you have all your information, like this is a prime example.
You have actors.
You insist upon a breakdown of every fee.
You don't want to just see the total.
You want to know how they got to the total after the door price.
You want to know what the selling price was.
You want to know if there's any rebates.
You want to know if there's any dealer installed add-ons, what those add-ons
are and what they charged for each one of those add-ons.
You want to know what the state registration fee was.
You want to know what the state titling fee was.
You want to know what the electronic filing fee was.
You want to know what the dock fee is.
You want to break down of every fee so that especially the state fees, you can compare
it to the posted state fees that you've gathered once you went to the state's
Department of Motor Vehicles website to find out what the actual fees should be.
And we have a lot of this on the Car Edge website as well.
Absolutely.
But I don't want to sit here and suggest that every dealer is going to inflate state fees.
I think most dealers would actually charge you what the state fees are, but you need
to know that there's enough bad actors out there that you need to check at whatever
dealership you go to and the good actors won't mind providing you with that information and
explaining to you where those fees came from and how they were calculated.
It's the bad actors that are just going to kind of sort of hide things on you.
So it's imperative that you always get that out-the-door breakdown as to how they
got that bottom line figure with a clear understanding of what the charge is for each and every fee
and line item.
If what we're talking about scares the crap out of you, this is why we offer car buying
services back on caredge.com, negotiation expert, or our full concierge service folks.
We at Professionals, this is all they do day in and day out.
It's almost like having a personal assistant who handles all of the headache and hard
work on your behalf, encourage everyone here who is disinterested in having to deal with
what we're describing, go ahead, check out those services back on caredge.com.
Dad, another story that's worth covering this morning, Dodge tries to balance electric
and gas power in muscle car lineup.
It is fascinating what's been going on over at Stellantis, a lot of changes.
What I found especially interesting here, Dad, is Dodge is walking back, the idea
that the charger and Daytona were going to be all electric vehicles leaning more into
gas and production of the 2026 Dodge Hornet, one of our preeminent slowest selling cars
in the United States being postponed, seems like Dodge is waking up and kind of reversing
how things were previously going, making some strategic moves on their manufacturing
process.
So they're postponing the production of the 2026 Dodge Hornet, I think it would be in
their best interest perhaps to just cancel it.
It is, I don't, I could be wrong.
But I don't believe that's a real profit center for most dealerships that are sitting
on 300 Hornets with three customers coming in and they're asking about them.
And I'm probably exaggerating the numbers, folks, for just because I can.
But my point is, is that if you have a model that doesn't sell and the manufacturer keeps
producing it and they keep sending it to you and you keep taking it at a certain point
in time to relieve yourself of that inventory, you're probably going to lose money or close
to losing money on each and every one of them that you sell, because it's not there.
So if they have proven since the Hornet first came out that there is not a market
for it, probably other than the rental car market, and my suspicion is that they
have clearly proven there's no market for the Hornet in this country, based
on the Afro Romeo that it's based on, that they should just instead of postponing it,
just, you know, hey, call it a rain out, cancel it.
Okay.
Don't even turn it into a day night doubleheader.
Just cancel it.
But that's what's interesting, dad, is when it comes to powertrain for some of
these vehicles, they are pretty much just cancelling it.
For example, you've got here the Dodge Charger, which they went full electric
on.
Well, now you can see they're going to be relaunching and bringing back gasoline
engines for these vehicles.
Here's an example of one, dad, we're back in Arizona, 271 days on the market.
Why is no one buying an $80,000, $79,680 Daytona Scat Pack four-wheel drive?
I think when it comes to muscle cars, that's not necessarily what people
are looking for.
This brand across the lineup, you've got the Charger not selling, you've
got the Hornet not selling, which the Hornet, just so everyone can see here,
you go to caredge.com slash slowest.
It's our third slowest selling car in the United States right now.
The other Atlantis products on this list as well, Maserati right above it in the
number two spot.
So all sorts of challenges there, no wonder they're having to think differently
about how they're approaching their EV aspirations and their whole lineup
altogether.
Well, realistically think about this for a second, who wants a muscle car
that really sounds like a muscle car?
And the only reason it sounds like a muscle car is because they have
artificially pumped in the sound of a gas-powered engine.
You know, if I want that sound, I don't want to have to hit a button
so it creates, I want to hit the gas and I don't know, the engine
actually revs and it resonates through the muffler system.
And you can feel it and you can sense it and you can hear it.
And, you know, I don't want to just, I don't want to just have to put
on headphones so I can hear it.
I want it to be real.
You know, it's sort of like you've probably heard me mention
virtual reality once or twice, you know, where people, you know,
they buy those virtual reality goggles and I think to myself, well,
you know, reality is like kind of strange enough.
What the hell do you need to live in a virtually virtual reality
world? Why do you need to live in a virtual sensory world where
they have to pump in the sounds to make it feel like you're in a real
muscle car? Just get a real muscle car.
Just put a big bad ass engine in it and make it what it was supposed
to be, not what you're trying to turn it into.
I think Dodge, going the way of EV muscle cars, may go down
as one of the biggest snafus.
I mean, this is not what anyone woke up and asked for.
And then obviously you see them not selling.
And now ultimately walking back on that direction that they were headed.
No one wanted that. No one asked for it.
No one wanted it. No one's buying it.
And I think that's the unfortunate reality for them.
Yeah. So this is not one of those situations where if you build it,
they will come. This is one of those situations where if you build it,
it's going to sit and it's going to sit and it's going to sit
because ain't nobody coming for it.
Now that being said, the final thing we'll talk about today,
EV registrations actually have increased significantly for legacy automakers.
And this is a direct function of the tax subsidy credit going away
at the end of this month.
So the advice stays the same.
If you're in the market to buy a new car, think about doing it at the end of the year.
That being said, if you're in the market for a new EV,
lease that thing before the end of this month,
because it's just going to get more expensive as we head into October
and the data is starting to show that people are heeding that advice.
I was looking back at some information that I shared with Justin
on our team about when to buy vehicles.
And I'm going to I'm going to find it and quote exactly.
And this is what I said.
Obviously, EV shoppers should take advantage of the federal tax credits
before they expire on September 30th, 2025.
So if you're looking for an EV, do it now, not later.
Otherwise, for all other cars, do it later, not now.
And I think that still holds true.
You you need at this point in time, if you're and if
EV registrations didn't surge after they passed the tax bill,
they were never going to surge.
So it it it makes total sense that we're seeing
EV registrations increase and seeing EV sales increase.
The big dilemma for all of these manufacturers
is what happens on October 1st.
And I don't really think that's going to be much of a dilemma.
I think we pretty much know what's going to happen on October 1st.
The sales of those are going to fall off dramatically, unless
and of course, the manufacturers step up and lower their prices
by the equivalent of that $7,500 federal tax credit.
We shall see.
I kind of doubt that the manufacturers are going to subsidize
or incentivize these things by seventy five hundred bucks.
They're trying all they can do right now.
Well, I didn't.
Lucid said they will.
But then again, you know, Lucid is used to losing
two hundred and fifty thousand dollars on every lucid that is sold.
Yeah.
So, you know, what the hell difference does it make
if you're losing two fifty or two fifty seven?
You know, it doesn't matter.
Yeah. Well, I do think that by the end of the year,
maybe in December, I could see some programs to try and move
the prior model year units to twenty twenty five.
So that'll be something we absolutely keep our eyes on.
Again, folks, if we can help you out with anything by car
without the headache, back at caredge.com.
You can shop for new cars, used cars or car buying services,
car edge insights, research vehicles, warranty.
What's my car worth?
All sorts of great information back on caredge.com.
Learn why shoppers go to caredge first.
Check it out caredge.com or do a quick Google search
and the website will pop right up.
Can they shop for those elusive every every vehicles in between?
Every vehicles in between.
We got you covered, folks, back on the website.
OK, pops, let's call it a show for today.
We'll be back with more car edge live tomorrow.
We appreciate everyone tuning in and spending some time with us.
If you enjoy the show, make sure you subscribe and enjoy a happy
Wednesday, September 17th.
Thank you, everybody, for being here.
Thank you, handsome.
Love you, and we will see you all back here tomorrow
and and maybe a few more folks know what your vehicle needs
before it needs it.
Visit your Chevrolet certified service center
and ask for a multi-point vehicle inspection.
Plus with the winter ready service event, get up to $210
and stackable rebates on batteries, brake pads and rotors,
cabin and engine air filters and wiper blades and participating
USGM dealers only.
Max rebate derives from collectible rebates
on all eligible parts.
Visit chevrolet.com slash service offers or see dealer
for full details.
Offer ends 22826.
Multi-point vehicle inspections vary by participating dealer.
Dermatologists have long highlighted the benefits
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Recommended by leading dermatologists,
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The best kind for your skin.
Go to getcanopy.co to save $25 on your purchase today
with Canopy's filter subscription.
Even better, use code serious to save an additional 10%
off your Canopy purchase.
Your skin will thank you.
If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant,
you know having a trusted partner
makes all the difference.
That's why hands down you count on Granger
for auto reordering.
With on time restocks, your team will have
the cut resistant gloves they need
at the start of their shift.
And you can end your day knowing they've got safety
well in hand.
Call 1-800-GRANGER, click Granger.com or just stop by.
Granger for the ones who get it done.
If you liked the show, please take a moment
to rate, review and subscribe.
It really does help the show to grow.
Thank you for listening.
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