Affordable 21st-Century Performance on BaT

Hello everybody and welcome back to the bring a trailer podcast Alex coming to you from bring a trailer headquarters in San Francisco joined today by Randy and Howard. What's up guys? Hey, Alex street rod versus hot rod. What's the difference? Let's not even use that. How are you going to fire it? Just like live wire. Touch the third rail. Howard, when was the last time you were on a podcast? Oh man, that was a while back.

Two or three months. It's been too long. You're fresh back from New York. You said you just did a car event in New York. I've been promoted to an avid listener of the podcast. Not a co-host. That's a promotion. Went to a cool event in New York City this past weekend held at the Brooklyn Navy Yard, which is a cool destination. It was wheels NYC, which I'd never heard of before. 69 Veloce was showing some cars. He tipped me off to it. What he bring? He brings something crazy. He brought the cars were pretty cool. He brought a best car. He brought was a black.

Kuntosh gold wheels, which is probably the star of the show. Good little real estate right in the center there. And he put a Renault five turbo. Wait a minute. We'll color. Not an R5 like the. Oh, his little. Yeah. Turbo. Yeah, it was cool. Yep. I didn't know they put turbos on the front-wheel drive cars. They did. Interesting. But yeah, sufficiently hipster rat music. Blair and really cool psych. Kind of an old warehouse with some outdoor parking. Maybe you know, 100 cars there. I was gonna say it's like old military base. That's the vibe.

Yeah, yeah, this is the Navy Yard situation was cruising around. One guy had an absolutely phenomenal 78. Sob 99 turbo that I was gawking over orange. No, like kind of graphite gray. Silverish. There was a guy sitting near it. The look that he could be the owner. So I kind of sauntered up the hand and said, Hey, is this your car? He said, yeah. I said, this is absolutely fantastic. It's the best thing here blah, blah, blah. He said, yeah, yeah, it's a good one. And I said, yeah, and I worked for bringing trailer.

So if you ever poke around on there and he just looks at me, he said, Yeah, I mean, I hold three solvable records on me. I was like, Oh, tell me more. He was like, yeah, I'm 99 EMS on orange one. That's why I was at the car. I think he sold that car. He's like, I have the 9.0 SPG record. You know, and this guy was in a absolute beauty of a guy.

I love that EMS pop right into your head. Red is the red SPG, right? That went for something huge. I can't remember the numbers huge number on that car. That's amazing. I liked it. He was so dismissive on it. Oh, yeah. Of course, of course, the one at the show is going to be the fourth record whenever he brings it right set it up. He said that was personal car, but that one's not for sale for sale. But it maybe could be bought for a world record price.

That's fantastic. I love that. I love the idea of car events in New York. Read if you've done any car stuff recently. I know we got some exciting stuff coming up, but you got anything that you've done since last time we were on the mic.

Not too major other. I mean, just wrench it on cars and keep in cars running and small checks and blah, blah, blah. But was at the LA. We had an amazing. We can talk about that. Or did you already talk about the LA event?

I don't think I talked about you and me trying to be a perfect airport in a rush with Rose and its own amazing story. I was exciting. A little too much excitement. But the event was that was one of the most favorite, most fun.

BAT events. I've been at it a long time. The LA one hundred people was just man, it was people. And a lot of stuff I had never seen before cars. I had never seen before. So anyway, that one is top of mine for me. And then just the upcoming calendar is what I'm super excited about.

But yeah, kind of getting back after we got some. There's a rally leaving out of San Francisco this weekend's tapers are on. There's other big events that are starting to take off April and May start to be up good months. Don't they totally.

Have you ever been in the ballroom at the museum? I have not. Oh man, it was great. I was rifling through that photo gallery. Good stuff.

Wobb's facility was amazing too. And I would love to say that Howard's back just for our company, but you've got an event coming up too. So we've got snowball. We got some of our buddies going on snowball. And you've got your old event coming up.

Yep. The California Miele kicks off this upcoming Sunday, April 27th. So I'm pumped for that. What are you driving?

Hoping to be driving an Alfa 1900 pin and freeing a coupe early early 50s alpha. So if that isn't the first one on the flatbed, then we'll be in good shape.

Ready. That's I feel like that's a phrase you have either uttered or thought about are hoping to be driving. So yeah, big BAT calendar coming up next one on deck for us.

Is the quail moto event, which we've sponsored a couple years. I can't remember. Have you gone to one of those Randy? I have not. I've never been to the moto gathering, but our staff is all over it.

We kind of tend to send our moto guys, which you and I are not, but that is an awesome event. And that is on May 17th. So that's coming up quite soon. I believe the sign up is live for that. And then we have two in June.

One of what you've gotten before you want to talk about zandvort. Yeah, we're doing zandvort again. We did it last year. It was our first European event. And we're going to be back there.

This year, which is super exciting at the F1 circuit in zandvort, which some people in the BAT community have driven and talked about and reached out to us. And then we met a bunch of cool folks. We met our next local part of our Belgian local partner.

We met that's where we met. They like rolled up and said, I want to be a local partner and we started talking about stuff.

So it's always fun to go to new places and see new things and meet new folks. And that event is trying to think what to compare it to here.

I mean, the circuit is the draw there because you see on TV and stuff and it's right by the beach. And it's like a really neat environment.

But also just sort of size and scope. Yeah, it's like a medium level, but very competitive, right? The Europeans win their vintage racing.

They're not totally like bang indoors, but it's not far off of that. It's very different than a Monterey sort of feel.

It's more like East Coast, US racing than West Coast. So anyway, super great event. And we hope we get some European listeners out there and BAT bidders and buyers and sellers.

But also Americans like if you're looking for an excuse to go to a far away cool car event, that ought to be on your list.

The further east you go, the harder core of the vintage race against or maybe the further west you have the softer.

I see. I don't what I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just a spectator, but that kind of seems like that's a reputation.

Well, that's a good segue into our big blowout event, which is going to be a vintage race in Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin.

We're all three of us will going and we're Howard. I hope we'll be racing. But we've been told the racing is pretty aggro there at the road America vintage event.

You've been before Howard. Oh, well, only the spectators is the racing aggro. I haven't heard that.

That's what that was. Now the numbers take, wasn't it? Somebody just told me like if you have a west coast car, you have kind of no business being being there or east of there.

Maybe I shouldn't say that to you, Howard. Not that this maybe doesn't get any more modern stuff. I don't know that that's the case.

But like in the vintage stuff. I think that's the case.

You know, part of one of my tasks on back in California is to get the cup car down off the lift, but the spare tires in the car get it stays.

You're ready to go for the truck to pick it up. So you can take it to a track day first.

Nope, straight in. No, amazing. That's so fantastic. I'm trying to find folks to pit with.

Not there's a shortage of kind of regional race support, but I've called a couple of these guys.

And they're kind of like, yeah, we're full. Yeah. Call me in a month or two. I have a better idea.

So anyways, if you're listening and you want to support. That's our road America.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Put the shout out here or somebody else. Somebody will reach out. Totally.

I just need help with the belts on the pre grid and maybe a little nut and bolt and that's about it.

I can't be your mechanic, but I can come help you get strapped in. I can at least do that part.

I know I remember how to do that. It's been a while, but I can probably still do that.

I'm really excited for that one. We're going to have about 17 or 18 staffers there.

It's two nights. This is kind of first for us. So we're sponsoring the evening time.

This is largely based on you saying how amazing the downtown Elkhart Lake piece of this weekend is.

So we'll be sponsoring the downtown race car parade where all the cars coming to downtown.

Everyone takes over the downtown location and super quintessential Midwest Lake town and Seapkins is the old classic.

Yeah, racer bar and it's an event unlike any other that I've been doing the US honestly.

And this is about seven or eight miles outside of the racetrack down in the downtown Elkhart Lake where the original course used to go through before they built the proper race course in 1957, which is road America.

But yeah, I'm I'm punt response for that. And we've got our alumni gathering at the track, right?

I know the next day. Yep. That's exactly right on the inside of the backstray.

Anything is where it's located. That's right. A lot of turns on that track. I don't know what's turned that is when grass.

We on dirt out there Midwest has got to be grass. It's got to be a big, very sure you're right. I think it is.

I remember we didn't event there one time ago and I saw the gallery of that.

The huge grassy knoll with all our cars spread across it. So anyway, I'm very excited.

I've never visited that circuit in my life. So this will be first time for me.

I am excited about that too. Wisconsin. I love Wisconsin. We were in Ayola and we've done some other stuff there.

But this is going to be great. It's going to be a blowout. Very excited.

We also just had our Florida event, which none of us went to but was by all accounts.

Another blowout. So we're having a good run this year.

Biggest headline there is the 250 GTO showed.

What's he out about? Totally. Interesting.

Did you hear that? No.

Guys were sending the photo around. Yeah, I could LaMose.

Class 62 GT class winner at LaMose. I can't remember the chassis number.

Was there color? Red, blue stripes.

Not BAT alumni. Not yet.

Not yet. Wow. No, I don't know.

Anyway, that was a by all accounts amazing.

And our first seven Florida, which obviously a lot of people commented on.

We've been trying to get down there for how long?

Six, seven years ago, Florida. We made it to Jupiter, Florida.

Shout out to K2, our partner down there who said it all up and will.

Local partner. The manager, local partner.

And everyone singing the praises of will, the manager there.

So great stuff. Any other event talk?

You want to chatter about anything else before we dive into the meat of our convo today?

What else is going on? I'm in the Netherlands for an event with our local partner there outside of Amsterdam.

We'll be there. That is on the 17th of March, also, which I think is the same.

Same date as a US one. We're also doing a euro one.

This is like a small cars and coffee sort of event that we're having over there,

which we're excited about. Look for an update on.

March 17th of May. May.

I said, okay, got me.

Oh, same. Same as the quail.

Same as the quail.

Other side of the earth.

I don't think those will conflict too much.

But anyway, yeah, it's a cool stuff going on.

I'm excited to get back over there.

And then yeah, the calendar is just rolling.

Yes, correct stuff to do.

So come join us. Come meet us.

If you have a suggestion for another event, whatever you got, reach out to us.

And more to announce to the back half of the year.

I think we're going to end up with over 10 official events this year.

So pretty great stuff. And we love obviously seeing everybody.

Okay, so the meat of the convo today is a topic that Howard's want to talk about for about a year.

And so I didn't want to miss this opportunity of him being in the office.

Affordable 21st century performance, Howard.

Tell me about how you came up with the idea why you wanted to chat about this.

Honestly, this is just such a natural part of our daily weekly discussion around the office,

seeing cars sell every day for, you know, and we can define what affordable means.

But I feel every single day we have stuff going through.

And you say, man, like I could have bought that for 21.5.

And then on the other spectrum, there's stuff that you think is like nuts.

And, you know, the value prop maybe is lower.

But all of us are chatting and texting each other every week, thinking about talking about this stuff going through.

And kind of the evolving market and what can be had for prices that you might think are lower than possible.

So I've got to chat about what's on my mind for that.

Alex, I think you got a list of some sleepers there.

I do. I have a long list of things that came to my brain.

But I'll preface this by saying people are going to probably be like, oh my god.

I thought of 50 other cars.

They're affordable from the 21st century that are kind of performance cars.

Randy, we're talking about B5 outies today is a 1.80 a performance car.

Ready?

That's a turbo on it.

It does.

So it's it had a sport package.

Was it a quad car too?

Yeah.

It's just like when I was in some of these like kind of price dislocations in the market.

Like for 15 grand is getting you into like still takes 15 to buy a nice saturn eye on red line.

Oh my god.

Yeah, totally.

A nice 10 year old mini Cooper ass.

I've got the Solstice sky kind of towards the end of my list.

What's the thing to talk about?

It's a hot turbo.

A nice one.

You're not getting that much less than 35 bro.

By the way, this just for the this is not my list of affordable classics.

My point is if you if you bump up the price point five or 10 grand right you get into a right nice black black 0406 for 25 grand.

Totally.

I mean, in fact, maybe that's as good a place to start as any that first thing came to my brain.

I don't know if it did you guys is Corvettes like C5 C6 Corvette, particularly C5.

That's the first place I went.

Hold on.

What year are we talking?

You guys are throwing out like the names of centuries.

Like what what?

2004 2000 to today 2000 all the way to today.

Anything in that range.

Most of the stuff.

Right.

So let me tell you about affordability.

Most of the stuff that came to my brain and I looked at is like really the 2000s and maybe the beginning of the 2010s.

Because once you get into the 2020s even like those are relatively new cars and even though like

things that are maybe on the margins of performance aren't actually that cheap.

And obviously the dreams defined something with a ton of miles but great service history.

So you get the full mileage discount.

Not to pay for any of the service.

And that's the dream.

So that's some of this way based on that fantasy scenario.

Correct.

Some of these cars like for instance C5, 06 range.

I mean those cars are like all over the place.

We've sold some for a C5, 06.

We've sold some for like 60 grand, right?

Because they're really really nice ones with like 1000 miles.

I don't forget the no miles.

They're talking about real world.

You know cars got 68,000 miles on it.

I mean up to like 2022, a C5, 06.

They were like 20 grand all day long, right?

Howard for 405 horsepower.

Great.

You want to talk 60 to 90k miles.

Let's start with 05 to 07 continental GTs.

Oh, right.

Hold on.

What's the cheapest continental GT we've sold?

I have like 25 model pages of continental GTs.

One of those for 30 grand.

Yeah, less, less.

Yeah.

And let's think about Bentley's man.

I'll Bentley's all have miles, which is great.

A number of them.

Yeah, mid 20s.

And we've had some big twos under, under 20.

Oh, man.

And we've listed a lot of those with 100,000 plus on the cloud.

How can you sell that card?

It goes for like 21,000.

Right.

You want an 05 Wrangler for 20 or do you want an 05 CGT for 22?

Because that's like a real question.

That's amazing.

We've had some results recently for like you're not kidding.

I would like shockingly cheap.

And I haven't really moved on a long time.

Here's a Japanese market 06 Bentley continental GT in Canada for 19 grand.

That was sold less than 22.

But you also said a Japanese market in Canada.

How many?

What a resume.

The discount.

Well, hold on.

That's the second Japanese market.

Bentley continental GT in Canada that we've sold in the last two weeks.

Who's pulling those in?

What's the trade?

The other one was 24 grand.

Oh, man.

I just pulled up.

Yeah, I mean, there's just devastating things like like a 2010 M6 for Ryan Grand.

How recently was that?

It's bidding.

It's got a little bit of time left.

But man, do you forgot?

I didn't even think about six series.

That's another good one.

Oh, man.

This is exactly what I opened with.

You're looking like, oh, 10 M6?

Oh, can get this for 11 750?

Yeah.

You can.

Yes.

Oh, my goodness.

That's amazing.

I mean, but everybody's gonna say, oh, you guys are talking about it, but it's suicide, right?

Like, nobody'd ever do that.

I don't think that's true.

I mean, you get into the non-Z06 C5.

So like, I like the fixed roof coups, the pre-Z06.

It's like got the fixed roof in the shortback window, but it's not a Z06.

Nice little Z51, but a stripper.

But still, you can still get a nice one for 10 grand right now today if you want one.

10 or 12 grand for one of those.

They're all six speeds.

They're 350 horsepower.

They don't weigh that much.

They're all Z51s.

Like, some of those have been just crushed by their rotors, right?

I mean, they're just like a disaster vehicle.

But some of them are great.

Some of them are just like I say, a driver, you know, 60 to 80,000 miles on the due to added

or the lady who added just drove it around.

Like, that's not that big a deal.

They built 2,000 of them.

There's nice ones and rad.

Rad.

Totally void.

That's our hour of Zeg.

You want to find the one that's like right between the two.

It's got miles with somebody kept it stock.

So you get the mile discount without the kind of track rat discount.

Mm-hmm.

For more like luxury cars, stuff like older Panameras and S550s, even like the 0708 S

sourds, 65s, like that was like a 200k car new.

I was looking at R230s, like all of the V8 folding hardtop Mercedes.

Again, 15k, 12k.

Okay, 20.

These are real results.

I'm going through the results page.

This is today.

2012 650i convertible sport loaded 24,000 miles.

It's all for 25 grand.

There you go.

What's the ARC's on that?

I don't know, but that's so much car.

That's a V8.

It's a 650.

V everything.

I don't even know.

I don't know what's in it anymore, but it doesn't matter.

Because it's a paddle shifter, whatever it is, but it's a cruise around car.

And man, that's so much 25 grand.

25 grand is like a new, what?

Yes.

Anything?

No, I don't think you can get anything about that.

Also in the 25 and under talking about Audi S5 RS5, which is a very cool car.

Yes, it is.

Great looking car.

And I've driven my old man on RS5, actually.

Awesome.

I mean, you can pick up one of those with 80,000 miles for what?

19 to 22?

Probably.

I was looking at RS4s, the 0708 RS4s.

And those are cheap.

You can pay a lot, again, for like a low mile of perfect one, but cheap for like 18, 19 grand,

for like a, that's 420 horsepower, revving V8 manual.

Here's a car.

Let's pay the back to performance a little bit.

This car is bright yellow.

Also sold today.

09, 370 Z6 speed.

Got them on my list.

Sold for 12, 5.

Wow.

That is a super cool car.

Yes.

I agree.

I also think, I mean, I'm sure 350s are even cheaper, right?

The 83 Camaro beneath it's sold for 17, 5.

So you get the discount on the 370 Z.

Price dislocations, people.

The other thing in the 370 Z family, which I always liked, was a nice G37 coupe, 6-speed.

I know.

Yes, totally.

You want to talk IPL back on those or on the 11, like those are dirt cheap.

Chewbacca exhaust.

I can still hear one of those when they go past.

You know what I'm talking about?

I knew.

That Nissan is having that term, but now I know what you're talking about.

Yeah.

You've heard those cars go past before.

But yeah, 370 Z.

I've always really liked them.

And yeah, I mean, I'm looking at them.

There's a supercharged one for 18 grand.

Here's another one.

Just on the price, though, that one that's sold today.

What an incredible.

I know.

Totally.

And you know, like, 04 R32s are still pretty strong for a nice one.

But you go to, like, an 08.

The second gen.

So what's a 04, mark 4 or 5?

Yes, the mark 5 is just cheap.

But then you go to the 08s.

And there's a fast too.

Fast.

What is that?

3.2 non-turbo.

I don't even know.

I think the mark.

I just saw on the other day I was talking about how rare it was.

I think it's the same powertrain.

So it's still the V6, NA V6, and all-wheel drive.

Yeah.

The 302, 50 or something like that.

They also have a cool sound.

But that's like mid teens.

Totally.

Maybe less with 160K on the clock.

Here's what I heard for you.

This is kind of maybe one of the more odd ball ones that came up for me.

The first, I always like these.

The first generation CTS-V, which is a cool V6.

And a 6-speed and 400 horsepower or whatever.

And I was looking those up in there like 20 grand for a really nice low mile one.

I thought they're less.

I'm sure you can get one with high miles for less than that.

The first gen, the interior is a horrific, but those are cool cars.

It's just core vet powertrain in a sedan.

We're talking about non-sports cars.

I knew it was even crazier.

A nice XLR V is like 10 to 15 grand more than a CTS.

Those are a lot.

I just scrolled past one of those.

And I wasn't going to mention it because the price was actually pretty expensive.

What about a non-sport V?

Yeah.

2006, one just bid didn't meet reserve at 30K.

I was like, wow.

Yeah, much more expensive than the sedan.

But you can get like a mid mile XLR for like 14.

Which is, I think essentially a C6 core vet, but with a North Star instead,

with a North Star instead of a LS.

XLR.

That's bokeh, Jupiter spec.

A lot of those.

Showed up at K2.

Last recap.

Preferably gold.

Man, that's so good.

Oh, Howard, you're dropping all kinds of heat.

I didn't think of any of these.

I have a really weird list, but none of these crossed over.

Another one that's really cheap that I was looking at are the C-Class Mercedes Erats,

really 2000s, that's both the Supercharge V6 or the V8 AM.

Reversion.

C32s and C55.

They're the same body, but two different engines.

I like them.

Here's like them too.

There's the last part.

Four results on those 17 grand, 7 grand, 13, 750, and 15, 5.

That's 7 grand when it was a dog.

What happened on that one?

200,000?

Probably.

But love those cars.

I like them in the V8 and the Supercharge V6.

I do.

That's Howard.

What else comes to your brain?

If you step up the price point a little bit like a non-R, 15 to 17 GT3, 15, those are

getting cheap.

Those are like dipping into the 30s now.

Oh, that's a car.

I was like, I got the flat plane first year, first couple of years.

What's that?

Like 17, 16?

I mean, you could get it.

I think 15 was the first year they rolled out the GT3, 350.

Man, I've always liked those a lot.

That's for a non-R, which is what I would want it to be.

Yes.

And those are cool.

Those are super cool.

Same price point.

I was looking at C6 Corvette's too.

0.6's are still what?

40-ish for a nice one.

Something like that, Howard?

For a C6, 0.6, 500 horsepower, that's a 200 mile an hour car that you can get for about

40 grand.

And I feel like the difference between like an 0.9 up to like a 15, like Vets are pretty flat

in those years.

So it's a ton of options and something that really pays off if you hunt around and find

the one you want.

You drive one of those, Randy?

A C6, 0.6?

I've never driven one, but I always liked it.

A C6, 0.6.

I didn't drive a C6.

You're a family friend to hand one.

Oh, OK.

I drove a normal one.

I just touroed one in L.A.

You remember when I did that?

Oh.

Yeah, I touroed it.

Just a standard C6?

Yeah.

With an auto or a stick?

No, stick.

Interesting.

Yeah, it was fantastic.

I mean, those cars are like 11, 5 in the quarter, like 3.2 seconds, 16, 200 miles an hour.

And you can have it 40 grand.

It's crazy.

Another thing that may be as scary as a C32 or C55 is like 0203 asked in DB7s.

Oh, that's before the V8 comes out.

Is that only in the 20s?

And pretty cool.

Yeah, cool car.

Or you can get like a later like DB9 vert, Vellante 078.

And that's still kind of 25.

30s?

Vantages were pretty cheap for auto.

I don't know if that's changed.

Where's the market there, Howard?

A little bit?

They were mid-20s.

0708s are a little more expensive.

Zach could probably tell us why.

But the earlier 1.0506 are cheaper.

They kind of start at 30.

One of the other things that I kept thinking about as I was looking through cars is

what are the makes and models where you get the big discount for vert or auto, right?

So I was looking at 996s, right?

Right.

For nothing.

Totally.

Yes.

Totally.

If you can live with the convertible or the automatic or both, then it's like half.

What a six-speed arc is worth.

That's an interesting question.

I like that.

Yeah.

996 is one where I was thinking about it.

There are a couple cars where you get the tip-tronic discount or the convertible discount.

I mean, RS4 cab is maybe part of that.

Totally.

I know that's tough, but could you do RS4 vert?

Ready or do you need sedan?

I don't know if I can do that.

You can do that if you have, I don't know.

Beach house somewhere and some sort of reason, but come on, RS4 sedan.

Or you want to spend 12, 13 grand get a nice little, like you made late 2000s Z4 roadster,

even with the three-liter.

Yes.

It's not a bad car.

That's also coupe and vert.

Can you get the non-M coupe for about the same as the vert?

But the crazy, if you step into like a really nice Z4M, like 0607, then you might be paying two or three X.

What the, just stripper Z4 is.

So, is that worth it?

Well, maybe Randy's of enough of being doing so.

There's a high revving version of that three-liter non-M engine that makes more power.

And those, it's like 250 horsepower or something.

Yeah, they have like an IS version in a lot of different models, including the Z4s, I think, right?

You could get like this sport model.

Were you at BMW still in those came out?

What year were we talking?

Oh, five.

Oh, everything.

I was in leach till 2010.

Okay, interesting.

So yeah, I was around for the release of those cars, driving them around, cruising them around, fixing them.

How about Howard?

You were talking about some kind of a red line Saturn, but the Saturn sky red lines are dirt cheap.

So are our solstices, solstices are under 10 grand.

Yeah, it just got me a neon SRT4, man, that's still cool.

No mufflers.

Those are a lot.

Now, nice ones a lot.

I don't think those are still cool.

No?

Do I have them cool?

I will concede that they were cool at one time, but...

Maybe the memory is better than...

Is that like an adult riding a BMX bike?

Like BMX bikes are cool, but you see an adult on it and you're kind of like...

That has to be a tea date.

That's a problem.

That's fair.

Right?

Is that his child's car?

I love them.

I'm not degrading it.

Just like I'm not degrading BMX bikes, but like that thing was a moment in time, right?

And it's like...

I don't know.

It's tricky.

Sometimes that's a tricky balance to walk.

Or a nice little city car, are we good?

Like for you, you have a kid coming up in his license soon.

This is maybe not for him, but like a little stripper BMW 128 coupe 6-speed?

No.

Yes.

It was a great car.

But more than you guys in the family, my dad and my sister.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

But I believe it was in the one series.

Yeah.

100 bird spec.

His was blue.

And it was a...

Normally asked not a turbo car.

Right?

Yeah.

I don't know.

I think it may be a turbo.

But anyway, those are pretty cool drive-well.

Does he still has it?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, interesting.

I'll grab that big driver.

It's amazing.

Is it sticker or not about it?

It's an auto.

That's great.

And then if it speaks to you, there's like a ton of options.

And they're like, oh, nine to fifteen challenger Camaro world.

Oh, man.

I don't know if we're ready to go there.

And probably wouldn't be near the top of my list.

But you can get...

Yeah, a lot of car in those eras.

Educate us.

What's the...

It was a 392.

What's the biggest motor you can get for a piece?

Oh, man.

You can go...

You can go with or without the SCAT pack.

And I'd be a later.

That's your favorite, Alex.

I love a SCAT pack.

A little SCAT challenger.

Yeah.

That's right.

But yeah, I mean, they only made what?

Five million of those combined.

So no wonder that they're readily available.

What happens to the two of you when I say the word?

Chrysler.

Crossfire.

I was just looking at what...

Did you see the one that sold like two days ago?

No, I didn't do that one.

But do you know how many we've listed out?

If you had to guess how many crossfires?

Oh, it was fires.

Yeah.

I mean, I would guess 38.

I would say more like 200.

How many?

Yeah.

Right in between you guys.

142 crossfires have been on, bring a trailer.

Man.

Coops, Verts, SRTs, all the different risks.

I'm not subscribed to that category.

So I don't keep a finger on the pulse on that category.

But I just did scroll bot.

I'm trying to look at this era

and actual results that have happened on BET

and once sold for what?

Like 13, 5 and it's perfect.

I mean, yes.

There's also what they came in a stick.

So this was yesterday

a 37,000 mile non-SRT just only aspirated one.

But with a six speed,

a coupe sold for $9,500.

I don't love crossfire.

Another question is, yeah, what's the mileage threshold

on a crossfire to get a reserve?

It's low.

It might be 6,000 or less.

That's a little market insight, right?

The last one with a reserve was in January.

So we've had four, eight, 12.

I should tell you how to roll in and say,

I gotta get my number.

We've had 15 straight at no reserve.

So cross the curation team.

The SRT, I believe, is the same engine as that C32.

I think it's the Super Church V6 out of that Mercedes.

I think it's the same motor.

Yeah.

O5 crossfires and O1 Cherokee's

needing an 185 reserve is a fast track to not suddenly.

But that's a conversation we have to have.

Clearly quite often with 142 having good on the site.

Truth, truth bombs.

One car we haven't brought up yet is Miata.

NCs are probably the buy.

What do you think, Howard?

Tell me more.

What era of the NC again?

Previous to the current one.

So this is, I think, about O5 to 15.

Maybe something like that.

The one I like is the one that has the power retractable

hardtop.

I think you can get a nice one of those for in the teens

or maybe around 10 grand.

First gen Miata's are like nice ones are on par

with NCs now.

Correct.

That's funny.

I think about it.

It's cheaper than the 1990 cars, which is fascinating.

Right.

What's a great O4 Mazda speed?

That might be 25.

Oh, they're probably up.

Really?

Oh my.

Those, right?

That's the second gen still with the turbo on it.

Randy, what are you scrolling past right now?

I'm scrolling past all sorts of results that are just

magical.

Um.

Oh, nine, sob, nine, three, sport, vert.

Thanks for reading.

Oh, it's interesting.

What's it?

Yellow.

Sold for 17.

I mean, it seems like all these cars, there's like a

10 grand to 225, which is a 90% swath of the market.

Yes.

So many of these cars that were listing.

Like, if you have 18 grand to spend on a car, like,

the world is yours totally.

Okay.

Whatever you want.

It's your oyster.

Which is so crazy.

Turbos or V8s or today after convertibles or whatever you want.

A couple of other cars on my list that are right squarely in that zone are first gen WRX

is not STI's, but just the wagon or sedan in the normal WRX.

But we can get a nice one for in that price range.

V70 and S60 Rs.

That's another one.

You can get those with that weird manual transmission.

Dude, V70 Rs.

Hold their value incredibly well.

Guys come in with a 170,000 mile car and it's still 175 all day.

But they're like always 75, right?

That's like the permanent number form.

That's why this topic.

I love so much because there's all these forgotten models and we're like 40 minutes in.

We're like, dude, sob 93s.

Yeah.

You know, exactly.

What's a good dig at?

What's a bigot?

I've always wanted to be like, bigons are on.

Is that one on the end?

Yeah.

If you had a low mile of digging, you'll get 35 grand for that, won't you?

Whoa.

But like a 9-free turbosick speed.

Like, is a cool car.

You hit a cool car.

It's cool enough.

And it's 15 to 50.

I still, I'm holding two really weird ones in reserve.

What else do you guys got?

Oh, you want us to try to guess?

So what's the country of origin and era?

They're both Japanese and they're both kind of forgotten.

And one of them we've only listed to ever.

Is one a Honda product?

No.

Neither are Honda products.

Are you going weirdo?

Like, where are you going?

It's a B-sheet.

It's not a Mitsu.

You know what?

I looked up EVO's.

EVO's are pretty expensive actually for what they are.

I think kind of an STI's get a lot of money too.

No, so one of them, and this is really weird.

I don't even know.

Power it will probably remember this.

This is from reading too many car mags in the OTS.

Is the Ultima SER.

The Nissan Ultima SER.

What was like the fastest front-wheel drive car of the day?

It's like, have we ever listed on who only?

Oh, okay.

There's six speed only, 300 horsepower front-wheel drive.

They've probably all rust.

Oh my gosh.

We've had two.

One sold for 16 grand, 44,000 miles.

And the other one.

16 K.

Yeah, for that car.

That was in 23.

And then we listed one in October of last year

that didn't meet reserve at 9 grand.

What was sticker on those new, I wonder.

Oh, I bet the 44K mile car has the window sticker

if I went and looked at it.

I bet they were about 35 grand.

Oh my gosh.

Yes, that's so much money.

We don't have the window sticker on that one.

Unfortunately.

One of those.

I mean, it was like the top of the line Nissan product.

You know what I mean?

That was like a 350Z motor, but sideways.

More Chubaka.

Talking about Japanese and a ton of car for the money

is first-year ISFs.

Oh, what are those down?

Another really like forgotten gem.

Those are forgotten gem.

We haven't listed one in a while.

What was that?

Maybe 08?

I think that's right.

They've got the stacked exhaust.

That's what I always remember.

I've always looking for.

It's actually kind of hard to tell one apart from a regular IS.

IS 300 was great.

Totally.

Chrono data check.

Yep.

Yep, yep, yep.

The WAGs and the manuals.

Manual WAGs.

Last weirdo one that I'm holding in my back pocket.

And these are quite cheap.

Is the Mazda Speed 6?

Oh, yeah.

Remember those?

All-wheel drive Mazda 6 with a pretty big turbocharged 4-cylinder.

And I think they're manual only.

The Mazda Speed 3 is also could be

just absolutely crazy torque steer on those.

Totally.

That in not in a good way.

But the Speed 6 is interesting.

Totally cool was behind the scenes at Mazda Speed.

We should, whoever knows in the BAT community,

like who was the product manager for Mazda Speed

and argued with people to get those cars to go to market?

We want to interview them.

And then we got fire and toilet.

Got run out of town.

Zoom, zoom, the whole thing.

We want to talk to that person.

I would love to take their brain about how that worked.

Mazda Speed 3 is a great, yeah.

I hadn't even thought about that.

I totally want to talk to that person.

Totally.

I love the Mazda brand.

I'm such a fan.

Yeah, man.

Do you remember reading the articles about these?

How they had to limit the torque in like first and second gear

to try to handle that horrible torque steer?

I just remember when I was an employee at Carn driver magazine

in 2011-2012.

We had like the new Mazda Speed 3.

And I drive that around and didn't love it.

But it was cool.

And you love it.

I just, I was put off by the torque.

Maybe I was just being a 22 year old moron

and like stopping on the gas and like feeling like it was unwieldy.

I mean, the last four of these that we've sold

08 Mazda Speed 3, 7200 bucks.

Original owner, 2010 Mazda Speed 3, 7800 bucks.

Original owner, 2010 Mazda Speed, another one for 4800.

That's too cheap.

And then a 30,000 mile 07 Mazda Speed 3 for 13.

Yes, I just put a pin on that like in 2011.

I think I more frequently jumped in the Nissan Juke 6 speed,

which was a delightful car.

Oh, that's interesting.

11th speed.

Take that back.

Have we ever listed a Juke?

Tell me we've never.

Oh, I'm sure we have.

I'm sure.

Another sleeper, man.

I don't even know if we have.

Have we?

Well, they made some race cars and stuff.

Didn't they?

No.

Not out of that.

We've listed a jukebox.

We've never listed a jukebox.

Oh, right.

Now, Remezion is still in test.

Is your face restored to power?

It is still intact.

Thank you, curation department.

That's rare to find a motto with zero results.

Totally.

When my wife was pregnant with her first kid

and I had to sell my S2000, I was like,

Hey, take a look at this car.

And I showed her up juke with the 6 speed in a turbo

and she was like, no, thank you.

High five for her next time I see her.

Totally.

Come on.

That Nismo badge didn't do justice.

Totally.

I think Randy brought this up.

We haven't talked about it.

We should even though it's like such an obvious answer.

But boxers are so cheap.

And you were saying, you know, nine grand for a boxer S.

I don't know.

I don't follow them super close.

Let me cool that out.

They bottomed and are going back up.

I think going back up, but there's got to be some generation

that's still in free.

A non-S 986 is still really cheap for a nice one.

But even an S is like 15k for a nice one for a 986.

And then even 987s aren't that bad, right?

Howard came in and boxed her.

Yeah, but is owning a 97 boxer with some miles?

Is that a death sentence?

That's all right.

There's a question.

All of these are fascinating.

And again, huge swath of them is between 10 and 20 grand.

But is there any one of these that they're not on the downslide?

Because they all got here because they were on the downslide.

But are any of these you buy it?

And like in 10 years, people are going to be like,

I can't believe you got that car.

Or is everybody going to be there on the downslide

and they're still making their way?

Crossfire's ran.

Crossfires might be on the downslide.

They're headed to 2 grand.

It's just you're catching it all the way down.

Are these bottomed out in our golden places?

Your first gen CTSV today?

I mean, are those ever going to be 30?

I don't know.

I mean, some of these cars we're talking about

because I think we can't imagine they'd ever go lower.

And that's why we're like, they're jumping off the page.

I go back to a super nice C5C6, 06.

Is that poised for some appreciation?

Or they made so many of them that this is just their natural resting place?

Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, there's a finite number of really good ones at some point, right?

And that probably turns things around.

People start getting excited about the good ones.

And then the mediocre ones kind of get lifted by the same forces.

0203 DB7 Vantage Coupe 6 speed.

I think that's a car.

Like, if that was 45-50 grand in a couple of years,

is anyone going to look at that cross-side?

Probably not.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Is there anything that comes to your run that's still on the downslide

that's not a solstice or a crossfire?

I would say you're ultima call.

Those are headed for the bow yard.

Those are good ones.

There's none of those.

There's none.

They don't exist.

I mean, I think they built a ton of boxers, right?

And so they get dragged up by the rest of the four things.

Like, 996 is used to be cheap.

And I thought we would have a discussion about 996's here.

And it's like, actually, it's like 30 grand for like a nice C2 coupe

with like non-GT, non-turbo.

But that can't be 15 grand anymore, right?

They're not.

But there's still a lot of them.

But it also shouldn't be.

Agreed.

But I think that's not cheap performance anymore, right?

No.

They're not grand.

Yeah, right.

S-281, Celine Mustang.

Is that good?

Being me.

Performance per dollar.

You will not.

A fuel economy does not score points.

Ready.

But everything else does.

Ready, you'll take two, please.

Oh.

That's interesting, like, tuner tech cars.

I was excited to hear you say that the flat plane crank Mustang, the GT350s

are cheaper because I've always really liked those.

Yes.

That's a great one.

What else, boys?

I'm just scrolling through the box or category.

It's like, whiplash.

You hit, I know, 2024.

And it's like $200,000 for some special satellite.

And then you're like $90, $8,300 for a $2,000 box or five speed.

Totally.

$8,300, dude.

Yeah.

It's sold.

You could have sold it last week.

You could have cheap.

It's a good spec.

Yep.

If you'll take the five speed, the five speed non-S.

Oh, yeah.

I didn't look.

Yeah.

Because here's one that's like, I can't even imagine it got through on the website.

And it's because it's a tip-tronic.

Yeah.

For $41.

There you go.

That's in belief.

But like, what's amazing about that car is for $4,100, that's still a mid-engine Porsche chassis

with a Porsche 6-cylinder in it.

And it's a convertible.

I mean, it's pretty wild.

That is wild.

Yeah.

$4,000.

Yeah.

Is that a performance car?

It is.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Okay.

Absolutely.

You're skeptical.

I think absolutely.

No, it is.

I agree with you.

Great topic, Howard.

I feel like we'd go on forever about it.

And there's probably so many things that people are thinking of that we didn't even...

Yeah.

I want to hear about it because I'm telling you, that is a huge swathe of what's going through

both BET and just out in the market.

When Howard first brought this up, the first thing I thought of is like, what's the maximum...

Because performance can mean a bunch of things, right?

Like that tip-traumatic boxer would still probably be pretty fun on a back road.

But what's the like most HP you can get for the cheapest?

What was it, an M6 for 9 grand?

There's like 500 horsepower for 9 grand or whatever?

That's crazy.

We need that as a leaderboard on BET.

Like, dollars per HP.

Dollars per HP.

You'd used to think that like bad old muscle cars with huge V8s and numbers on them.

But now it's this era.

It's like 2000s twin turbo V8, whatever.

It's a CDM.

Yeah, these will be for 71 under bucks.

That's got to be where the HP per dollar is.

Yeah, or a little high.

What would be like a Beater, like 09 GTR talking about twin turb.

I guess that's 6 cylinder.

Oh, that's a GTR.

Oh, Nissan.

Yeah, those aren't cheap though.

Are they?

No, they're not 20s.

I don't know.

I don't know that we've had a 16-year-old one.

We've had some newer ones.

It used to be that you could get when I first worked here.

996 turbos were pretty cheap.

Yeah.

It's kind of over.

That's kind of over.

But like, that was a lot.

That's for comments for pretty cheap dollars.

Yeah.

All right.

What's that?

That's an R35.

What's our lowest R35 result?

Under 50, they sell for under 50.

And those had how many horsepower?

Other 600 horsepower.

Something like that hard?

About 50, maybe?

Crazy.

And then, yeah, people pump them out to 900 plus.

Our most recent one is a modified O9.

It's sold for 56.

And if it's modified, you know it's HP.

Yeah.

That's a little heavy.

That's a little outside of our affordable discussion.

Yeah, totally.

But it is interesting.

I mean, once you start talking about dollars per HP.

I think that's a hilarious metric.

I wonder if that should be under every photo on VAT is dollars per day.

Then you have to add the fear factor to it.

Like, if it's a, you know, and you have a 21-window bus,

which is 200 grand for 39 horsepower,

that one is in the different.

Or something like first gen Cayenne Turbo.

Those are aging well, I think,

and some not insignificant HP.

Totally.

Cayenne GTS six speeds, like those bottom last year.

And people were scooping those up for under 20 with a ton of miles.

But that's a legit cool sport activity vehicle.

Totally.

I took my mom to Porsche of San Luis Obispo this week.

What the heck for?

Well, she wants a new car.

And she wants a BMW X3.

And I was like, at least go drive a Macon.

And interestingly, both the BMW dealership and the Porsche dealership

have no new inventories.

So they've moved.

They're used inventory out front so that it doesn't look like their dealership is empty.

Interesting.

I think in the inventory, because everyone's scared of the tariff.

So they've stopped shipping cars.

So, uh, time to buy used cars.

Time to buy.

Well, old boxer.

Do you have daily dealership?

They were drooling.

They were like, so excited to make a sale.

But at the Porsche dealership, they were a little more calm and even keel.

What does she want?

You're going to get her a Macon or something?

She was like very skeptical of it.

And then she drove one and she was like, oh, this is two-year-old Macon.

Yeah, probably.

It had a couple new one still.

But she loved it.

Had a Mojave beige interior.

It was a jave.

Mojave.

So it was a client who'd ordered.

But then they didn't take delivery.

It was a $97,000 four-cylinder Macon.

She'd got like every option you can get.

Wow.

I know.

Wild.

My mom's still driving her 17 Macon S.

Right.

Like 50,000.

Talk about something.

Great.

If we're helping the Macon marker right now, because everybody's mom drives me.

Is that what that rig is?

Honestly.

Fantastic car, though.

They are fantastic.

I'm getting a little scared of it now.

I'm coming up on 10 years.

I have like that age as well.

Yeah.

Maybe the four-cylinder would be better.

I ran one in Palm Springs and I loved it.

I was like ready to convert.

They're hand-to-root.

The Institute for Your Mom.

Yeah, that's right.

That's right.

She took it into the dealer.

She's like, isn't too car literate.

But in a nice way.

And they gave her an estimate and told her she needed breaks and rotors.

And they wrote her up like an $18,000 RO.

She was like, you just take a look at this.

Like, should I do this?

I was like, do not do not do this.

Whatever you do.

This is Mill Valley.

This is Saunin.

It's a formerly Saunin course.

It's still called Saunin or Saunin.

And they cashed out.

It's who's who?

No, no.

Now it's just Borshamer and Borshamer and Saunin.

They're like, we can't keep fresh inventory, but we'll make money.

Yeah.

18G's for a set of breakpads.

Okay.

Right.

How many little ladies in Marin County are going in there?

And they're like, all right.

Yeah.

Great.

Do that.

Yep.

Valve cover gasket.

Sure.

Transmission mount.

Our whole conversation has basically been about how you can spend $18,000.

Yeah.

Very different way that you could get a boxster for that or she could get her Macon service.

Four.

Take chronic boxsters.

Just every German breaks.

You dumps there.

You can actually be an amazing driveway.

It's four tip-tronic boxers and you're all in under 20.

Or get the brake service.

That's your Macon.

Yeah.

That's pretty amazing.

So today is like, yeah, what happens when someone goes wrong and you get your service bill?

That's basically equivalent to your price of entry.

100%.

That's a factor.

Boy, some of the worst case scenario occurring there and happens to come to Volkswagen

ownership.

Totally.

Yeah.

The first thing that Brady brought up that like BMW, that's all cheap or the AMGs that I brought

up.

It's because people are anticipating that first service bill.

Totally.

B5A4.

You know, buy the car for 6 grand.

First repair bill.

It's like it's clockwork.

But they're price.

Yeah, but they're so good.

Well, that's why you get in so cheap.

That's fantastic.

Well done.

I think we did this top of justice, Alex.

I think we did, but I think we still want to hear from the audience of all the things

we were missing.

What are we missing?

I don't know.

I mean, we said GM, right?

We said all the vets.

I don't really know.

Camaro's up that air.

Is there a cheaper way to go 200 miles an hour than a C60 OS X 200?

Those M5 and M6s, they go almost that fast, I think, if you take the limiter out, those 500

horsepower V10 cars.

Sure.

I mean, I'm sure they're capable.

The question is where and how they would pull that.

I'm just like, I'm curious about those kinds of statistics.

Also, the, I think Howard mentioned these, those twin turbo AMG Mercedes with like 700 pound

feet of torque, like these wild things that were so expensive when they were new and

are so cheap.

Now Bentley Continental GT is another interesting example of that.

What do we miss?

And maybe like mid 2000s, what Lincoln LS V8, those, I think I made those with a manual.

Oh, yeah.

The one that was the same platform as a Jaguar S type and a Ford Thunderbird.

The V8 Thunderbird, retro Thunderbird, a car that did not come up in this description because

I don't know if that's a performance car.

But those are cool.

I like those a lot.

There's cheap Jags, like what is the supercharged V8 XKR?

Those are probably super cheap.

One that I was sold yesterday.

He scroll.

I was just looking.

No, I was looking when I was scrolling.

I didn't bring up.

Yeah, I mean XKR, XK8.

But the XKR is like J, none XK, XJ sedan.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

And those are cheap.

But the XK is the vert sports car thing is like 375 horsepower.

Remember last year we had that crazy run of those XJR portfolio additions that all went

for like 90 to 100 K plus.

I don't know what that was about or maybe we haven't had those since.

That was like a moment in time.

There was like a run on the market of the portfolio.

Yeah.

I had to get an XKR portfolio vert and that's like a cool cheap car.

That's also Jupiter, Boca spec, total, they're all down there.

Great stuff.

Well, Howard, it's a great topic.

Appreciate you bringing it to this table.

I'm sorry, it took so long for us to get to it, but it's a good one.

You missed.

Hi, my old Panos Esperantes.

And what else did we miss to them?

My gosh.

Do we have that?

You know the first?

I mean, I went back one of those up for under 30 when I was looking at results.

I was kind of trying to go right down the middle, but there's a whole other thing

where it's like, this is a car that's actually usually pretty expensive.

But if you find the right example of it, it gets cheap.

Right.

Ram SRT 10 4-door with miles.

Those are, I think, having a bottom of your bench, such a narrow, deep cut.

I love that.

The two doors, the two doors still bring some cash, but people don't really want the four doors.

Yeah.

That's great.

Well, thanks, gentlemen.

I appreciate you doing this.

That's great.

For all of you who listen, we would love to hear what we missed.

There's a lively discussion to be continued here, I think, and we appreciate, as always,

your listenership.

Please send any feedback or additional, uh-oh, A-Barth, 500s.

That's a cool looking car.

I think.

Oh, another no muffler car.

I know.

It's an E-I-A problem.

SRT neon.

2013.

Just to tell everybody.

It's 13th Fiat A, about, uh, 517,000 miles on a white, white wheels red mirror caps.

That's a cool car.

Oh, I thought, I always thought of that.

I thought I was going to get some retribution from you, so I kept, I kept, I kept mums

the word, but you like those.

I actually think that's a cool car.

I like them.

You can hear them or they're boring in some colors, but this one, I mean, if that was

part of that side, you're like, okay, that doesn't look like a Kia, like everything else

that's sold today, you know, that looks like it's actually interesting.

I think they're cool.

Yep.

I've always liked them.

And it's weird as a first year bentega bottom.

We have not seen it yet.

I think though it might be today, I mean, it's rapidly declining.

I think those might bottom in like the flow fifties, when it's all said and done.

Holy moly.

But why would they bottom?

Like why don't they go to 30 exactly?

They might.

You might, I mean, and then 20, and then 10, maybe 50s to generous, okay, yeah.

That's interesting.

It's on the same depreciation curve as those, like SL 65s and S 65s or 18 V8 bentega.

Look out.

What was the sticker on those when they were like 300?

They made the 12 cylinders and a bunch of other trim packages, but it was a lot.

Or just buy a Hyundai Genesis SUV in it.

Base bill looks like it.

I still get those confused running around New York when I see one.

And on that note, thank you for listening.

Feedback to podcastatbringantrailer.com.

We'll catch you next time.

Affordable 21st-Century Performance on BaT

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Saab 99 Turbo

Alfa Romeo 1900

Z51

Mercedes-Benz S550

Aston Martin DB7 Vantage

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