00:38
SFJ 4x4 Studios presents, in my oversized four-wheel drive Jeep, a Jeep podcast starring industry
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With mad scientists, Scott Brown, used my drill press as a sort of lathe.
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Our host, Neil Simpson, if one leg goes off, they'll all go out.
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Silver's shenanigans.
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We are really professional with Jeeps.
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This is iSpeak Jeeps.
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Good morning, afternoon, evening, wherever, however you are joining us.
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This is the iSpeak Jeep podcast presented by SFJ4x4.com.
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My name is Neil with SFJ4x4 Simpson Family Jeeps, and I'm joined in Grandma's couch
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The maddest mad scientist, Scott Brown, sitting over there, looking fly with the American legend
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And that guy over there is the producer, orange spooky season hoodie.
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That signature, limited edition spooky season one we released a couple of years ago that
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we released, I know you do, when we release a limited edition, it's out and then it's
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You know what I mean?
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That's why I never wear mine because I don't want to ruin it.
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And when we do a merch drop, you got to get on it or you don't.
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We've got the creepin' it real t-shirt drop right now, which is pretty cool.
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And then I know that Savage has been working on a, specifically a Christmas one, I'll be
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honest with you guys.
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And so we once again, he intentionally skipped right over.
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So today, we're actually going to be talking about paint in jeeps.
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And I know that's not exactly a strong topic for you, which is ironic because of all the
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topics jeep, you would think you would know paint and you just don't care about paint.
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And I thought it was, you know, you guys had suggested the topic, you know, kind
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of communicated it to me and I love the idea and I love, you know, bringing kind of the
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depth of what you guys have prepared to our listening audience.
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But I am not a paint guy.
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But you are a history guy and we're going to start with the history of paint.
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And I love contextualization history, right?
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And we're going to talk about the future of paint with self-healing.
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And that's what you were talking.
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And I'm here for it.
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Of course, I don't expect people to be like, you joint crazy like I am or like grease and
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Like, so I kind of exist to like care about the stuff that nobody cares about.
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And then like paint, which seemingly a lot of people care about.
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I give, you know, two figs.
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So I'll be bringing that perspective.
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So if you like patina and rat rods and old school stuff and, you know, if you're
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just like, hey, it's got pinstripes.
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I know you, you, that's one of your favorite paint additions to your truck.
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Well, different kind of pinstripe, I think I'll be here to.
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I'll be here to kind of add that to the conversation.
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But mentioning, you know, our listening audience, we do want to take a
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moment to recognize everyone who has prioritized us as their listening
04:13
infotainment, understand that Jeff is about to jump into the comments.
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But if you are listening at a later date, you too can join us almost every
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morning, every Monday at 10, 19 a.m.
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In the comments, we go live standard time Eastern and we go live on the book
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of faces or the YouTubes and we encourage you to jump into the comments
04:36
and share with people and you may get your comment read on air.
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And we thank the people who do that.
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But equally, all the people who prioritize listening us in their ear
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holes across the world, six out of the seven continents and 90 plus countries.
04:52
Thank you so very much for making this podcast an important part of your
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Jeep and off-road and automotive experience.
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So in the comments, we got Billy Joe saying, good morning, everyone.
05:04
We got Jeannie saying, good morning.
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And she loves the creeping at real shirts.
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Geaga Jeepers saying, good morning.
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Mike Lentz saying, good morning.
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Missing remote says paint with an orange swatch.
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So they must like the color orange.
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We got Knight Rider Jeep saying, morning, gentlemen's.
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Good morning, good morning, good morning to everyone.
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I saw the best orange gladiator over the weekend.
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And it's not a common thing.
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That is not a common thing.
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In fact, my son and I kind of remarked, and honestly, the
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orange-ness that it was is the orange of of Jeffrey's hoodie.
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I mean, it was a bright orange.
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And I thought that was really interesting because I kind of
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don't remember that pumpkin-y orange color as a as an option for our gladiators.
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Well, that was kind of kind of fun personally to see that.
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And as far as paint goes, there are certain aspects of it that I can
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appreciate, but for the for the vast majority of the paint and exterior
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coating, I simply don't care.
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Now, that is coming from a guy who when I was 15, I had my first car at 15.
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I did paint my car.
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And I think that through that process, they had the classic 80s,
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you know, lifting clear coat.
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And it was that it was supposed to be there.
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It was supposed to be kind of a fire engine red.
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Of course, you know, always, always biased to that.
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And it had marooned out and all, you know, sun fade and sun beat.
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And in that process, I discovered not only do I not super care
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about the colors, but I absolutely hate personally painting a vehicle.
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Now, I got to ask, did you actually do the process
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where you sand it down to the metal, you prime it and then you paint it?
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Sure, he started that process.
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Well, so then and then the care got less.
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And so the reason I ask is because I absolutely did this with a Chevy
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Lumina that was faded out, and I sanded it all down, took the time
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to do all the sanding, right?
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Then I started with the primer and it absolutely drove around
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until I traded it in half primed, half painted.
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So I need I need you guys to know, I need you guys to know.
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And this is what I think puts me in a unique perspective,
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because I know that, Scott, your vehicles only ever make it to primer.
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Yep. And I appreciate your honesty and your story, Jeff.
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I need everybody to know I had this is one of the gentlemen
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that I consider to be an amazing mentor of mine
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in my automotive pursuits as a teenager.
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I actually work this from start to finish it.
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He wouldn't let you stop, would he?
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No, absolutely not.
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We actually we used his garage.
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We took about a week to do it.
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He literally took me to one of the reputable paint shops, you know,
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at the time, 30 days at the mass standing a car.
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It was the most awful experience of my life.
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Yeah, which is why I don't like it now, which is why I don't like it.
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Yeah, which is why I don't like it, which if you are a person
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who likes painting a vehicle, I mean, I actually know people
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who like the prep work.
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They find it therapeutic.
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They, you know, and they do beautiful work.
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They don't want fingerprints.
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And I'm like that God bless you.
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I mean, and I think that I'm self deprecating, but that is completely
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different experience that they like.
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But I did the whole process.
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He took me to the paint shop.
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I actually talked to the gentleman at that point in time.
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Again, we're talking it was a different world.
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You had specialists.
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You had people who who really cared about it.
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Not some of the modern day paint experiences were more conscientious of.
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We actually got to look got to look at and work with the mixer.
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We picked out the metal flake.
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We added the metal flake.
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I mean, the whole nine yards.
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And I thought that was cool.
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And we were just going to tape and spray.
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What we didn't do is remove all the handles and strikers.
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And we didn't do that.
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We did do all the things.
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And I still remember the bucket and the rawness of my fingers.
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Wet sanding down the eight classic eighties air quotes patina that it was.
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And then we sprayed it.
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I mean, it was it was cool.
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But I never did it again.
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So back to the comments real quick.
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Nate joined us as good morning.
09:43
Jerry Huber says good morning to the SFJ crew.
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Nate said punk and metallic is the best cheap color.
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Then you got Jeanie saying her favorite color.
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And she misses that color as well for that punk in her orange.
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And then we got Roy saying good morning.
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Jagadjeeper saying old school calico square bodies, yellow fender,
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blue door, red bed, black hood.
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I know that too well.
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Yes. Good morning to everybody.
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And I think it'll be fun.
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I always like to recognize Jerry's contribution to the Jeep community.
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Well, he just did a paint job.
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Well, he did on on one of his
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resto mods on his season you were talking about.
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But Jerry, prior to his prolific
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career working at the Jeep assembly plant,
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started in the paint shop for, you know, Jeep Chrysler at that time.
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Good. He can weigh in every time
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to make a mistake on paint.
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I'm counting on him. I'm counting on him.
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I know that's one of the fun facts about Jerry.
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So so anyway, I figure we should start where it all starts.
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And, you know, Bantam.
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No, no, actually, federal, federal regulatory.
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We're not quarter taught horses.
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He's bringing up horses.
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And we're off the rails.
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So he's bringing up horses, folks.
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Oh, you talk about, you know, back in the day,
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you could pick what color your horse was.
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And then you go into the early years
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to what color your horses.
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They're crushing up berries, making war paint,
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paint in the side of the horse.
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Hey, whatever floats your boat.
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But anyway, so I thought it'd be fun to be like,
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why were Model T's for the most part black?
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And now we're on his frigging Ford in six weeks of his Ford.
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So the reason why they're black is I'm going to go back to the title.
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They were black because he was the most frugal person
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and black is the cheapest color to spray.
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Red is usually the most expensive color.
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And I figured it would be just a fun way to bring in that little
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tip for those that don't know.
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There was also a time where there was some study done for insurance companies
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that red is the most pulled over color in the 80s and 90s.
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But they when you actually broke down the statistics,
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it was one of those where they changed the statistics to look the way they want.
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It was also the most popular color.
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So that was the most popular vehicle on the road.
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And for a while, statistically, of course, it would be the most.
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If you had a sporty car, it was red, right?
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So that was biased.
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I remember that whole life.
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So Henry Henry Ford after the horses.
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Yeah, when he works it in every episode.
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Absolutely. It's a game at this point.
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And right up to Jeff, I was like, I know what I'm going to do.
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I literally said, what are you going to use?
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Horsehair brushes to paint the cars or something.
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Yeah, I didn't see that coming.
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How he brought it in.
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Anyway, so really where we start thinking about Jeeps is World War Two.
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And we have all a drab color drab.
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Jeff and I just looked at us.
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So the other thing I thought would be fun that most people probably don't know.
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And only reason I know is because I had way too much six weeks of World War Two Jeeps.
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The original hood numbers that the Jeeps were born with were actually olive drab blue
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because they decided that that color would disappear in photographs easier
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than say bright white.
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So when you see a Jeep in a photograph and it has a white hood letters,
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that is in the barracks in and on the front lines getting painted
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because for those that don't know if you're not getting shot at or run or running
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or running to or from your painting things in the army.
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So at that time, at that time or greasing things or greasing things.
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And the other important thing is that we have people that are like,
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well, all of all of drab is all of drab is all of drab.
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No, there's a million different shades.
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And the Jeeps, when they were getting blown up,
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were a thousand different greens, basically, because, you know,
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they paint this fender and then, you know, they have to run.
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So they're not going to get over there.
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Do you have experience painting green?
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And again, for those that don't know, as the Jeeps progressed,
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as we went from one conflict to another, they actually changed the green
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depending on the area that they were stationed in.
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So, you know, we're 80s babies.
14:41
So we remember the tan Humvees and stuff.
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That's because we were in desert storm and we're in a desert climate.
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Korea has a little bit more darker green than the eastern conflict.
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So they had a different green, much to my dismay.
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If you had a gray jeep that was almost always a navy,
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I don't completely know why they chose that.
15:07
Right. I think they had leftover paint from the ships.
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And so they just painted the Jeeps.
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And I believe that the numbers on those were black.
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Again, it's kind of interesting.
15:21
There's literally people curating.
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There were two Jeeps and they take a layer of paint off at a time
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because they want to see if the numbers changed on the hoods as they go back in time.
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And they and when they find that blue number,
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they like are all related. Yes.
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And same thing, they go after the bumpers.
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They don't know what company or anything like that it was in
15:49
unless they actually uncover it.
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So it's it's like a history of the.
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Yeah, they're doing archaeology via paint at that point.
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And I and I appreciate that.
16:01
And my grandfather, who was just a good,
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you know, kind of grandfather figure who was into Jeeps
16:09
who had served in the Occupation Forces following World War Two.
16:13
And he was a tank gunner, but but I was going to lament
16:17
the whole painting things conversation.
16:19
Yes. You know, to understand people,
16:23
people's perspective may be shaped by today's
16:28
you know, framework in the sense that, you know, we think about going
16:33
to the paint store and getting an aerosol can might be a two part can
16:36
where you, you know, you bust a hardener in the in the bottom of it.
16:39
That's fancy paint. That's fancy paint.
16:41
Or you can get, you know, paint a tractor supply and your spray painting.
16:46
These guys had buckets and a brush.
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I'm going to go to the comments real quick, because Missing Remote says
16:51
they were in Desert Storm Desert Shield.
16:53
So thank you for your service.
16:59
And I mean, the thing with my grandfather and and honestly,
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both my grandfathers, you know, it was about if it was flaking,
17:06
you scraped it. Otherwise, you just put another layer on it.
17:09
It was a it was a gallon or a bucket and a brush.
17:12
And you just put another layer on, right?
17:14
And that is so foreign by today's overly specified.
17:20
You go to any Instagram real or any YouTube
17:22
and you're going to have a thousand comments flaming people
17:25
on the fact that there was not all this arduous prep work.
17:29
And you didn't you didn't scrub for 38 minutes and one.
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No, the the Jeep rolled up.
17:35
If they dusted it with a cloth, it was it was loved.
17:39
That was the most prep work. They got cheap.
17:41
That was the Colonel's Jeep.
17:42
And otherwise, they cracked open a can that had already been open for five days.
17:46
Yes. Skimmed off a little bit of a top layer,
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mixed it up and brushed it off because aesthetics didn't matter.
17:51
Then it was more about just getting some kind of coating for durability,
17:54
some kind of corrosion preventative on there.
17:56
It was for really durability at that point.
17:57
It was really just to make it blend
17:59
into the do the main area of what they were and that's fair.
18:03
And that very well could be, you know, there's probably more for just appearances
18:08
so they could look cohesive.
18:09
I know that easy to maintain in the field.
18:11
I guess I'm going with just my grandfather's like like their approach, though.
18:17
It was like if one coat was good, another coat was better.
18:20
I had raw iron railings that we had like 11 teen coats of black on there.
18:24
And I remember painting a house again.
18:26
They they had me painting at about 10, 11, 12, and you scraped it.
18:31
And that's how we paint it as a society.
18:33
We scraped just the big sheets and then you you layered on another layer.
18:36
Oh, yeah. And you get a chip of paint and you've got a crater now.
18:39
And you're like, well, why is there 10 layers in there?
18:42
So just kind of a different social perspective than by today's standards.
18:47
And I think that that's so valuable to to kind of keep in perspective.
18:51
So that fits us kind of into, you know, post World War Two.
18:55
Well, wait, wait, let's go back to the World War Two paint.
18:58
What kind of paint was it?
18:59
So I believe it was lacquer.
19:01
It was a single stage enamel.
19:03
Oh, it was enamel. Yeah.
19:06
Touche into the fifties.
19:08
I know they went to a lacquer style paint.
19:11
Does that is that in your notes?
19:13
The 45s to the 60s was a two stage paint with a primer and a top coat,
19:18
which would be more what you're talking about.
19:20
And what I was going to say about the the fifties colors is I think we
19:26
we kind of were tired of the black and the drab and the kind of suck
19:33
that World War Two was.
19:35
So I think that's why you see, you know, bright white cars, bright red.
19:39
That's where the reds, blues and yellows.
19:42
They were trying to liven things up and kind of not make it so suck.
19:46
And that's why, you know, when I think of a CJ two way,
19:50
the first civilian Jeep, most of them seem to be red
19:54
or I just found red ones for some reason.
19:58
There were some there were some brighter greens or some more desirable greens.
20:02
Yep. I think of the fifties having this.
20:06
I don't want to I don't exactly want to use the pastel,
20:08
but it has more of a pastel flavor as far as I mean, we don't have the series
20:13
worth we're totally well, that I was absolutely wanted to bring up the series
20:17
because I'm going to go back and we got corrected by Jerry like we expected.
20:22
The the most of the early Jeep for a single stage.
20:27
And I don't even know how to.
20:28
Alkyde Alkyde enamel on the early Jeeps.
20:32
Um, so just a more technical specification.
20:36
And then we got Nate of course,
20:37
saying he misses the lead paint because it tastes the better, but whatever.
20:40
That's what I was wondering.
20:42
Well, I think comments were going to come in.
20:43
I'm not overly surprised that they were enamel
20:47
because AMC used enamel.
20:50
I know that. Right.
20:52
But overall, well, I was going to say, I want to make sure we touch
20:56
on the series because there might be people who are unfamiliar
21:01
And as I was mentioning this kind of kind of introduction of pastels
21:05
into the fifties and sixties, and I think there was some cultural
21:09
relevancy as far as what you're saying, where we were in a rebuilding
21:14
process globally, and we wanted a little bit of a softer feel.
21:18
We didn't need this heavy military machine anymore.
21:22
And that's why some of the movies and stuff, you see a lot of beach,
21:26
a lot of fun, they're dancing, that kind of stuff.
21:29
And that's what the Surrey was made for.
21:31
It was two wheel drive, had a cool fringe top with stripes.
21:36
Yep. And I think there was pink, blue and yellow and yellow.
21:40
And I can't say Surrey without bringing up our interaction personally
21:45
with a Surrey was these twin sisters, sisters.
21:49
Their dad bought them a Surrey and they fought over it.
21:52
Yes. And the boys that would show for them around.
21:55
And yes. So later in life, they got a Surrey and they went through
21:59
the Willys group together, of course, with matching clothes.
22:05
Yes. And they were the sweetest.
22:07
They were adorable.
22:08
And it was one of the best Jeep community experiences that you and I had
22:12
that really rounds out the Jeep culture. Right.
22:16
And with the wide white walls of bright chrome hubcaps.
22:19
Yeah, because it wasn't just about off road.
22:21
It wasn't about just, you know, we get into the originality event.
22:25
These guys were like, well, it has to be exactly this.
22:28
This was about these sisters reliving the romance of their teenage years.
22:34
Quite literally and figuratively.
22:36
And they were just they had big personalities
22:39
and they brought the Surrey out for all of us to enjoy.
22:45
And it was such a beautiful representative or survivor.
22:50
And I think they ended up selling it
22:53
eventually to fund some health related stuff.
22:56
But that was a great time with it.
22:59
They had a great time
23:00
and they certainly made a huge impact on us.
23:03
And now we're sharing it with our listeners. Absolutely.
23:05
Their story goes on.
23:06
And so since we can't bring up
23:08
Blacker was for how paint was on Jeeps because they were cheap and used enamel.
23:14
I have to tell a little bit of a lacquer story
23:16
because my dad grew up in the 50s and the 60s
23:19
and he sprayed lacquer 98 percent of the time.
23:23
And that's where the fancy paint jobs, the the custom colors,
23:28
that kind of stuff really got their start
23:32
because he would spray like 10 coats of lacquer.
23:35
And you had to when you actually got done spraying it was almost opaque.
23:40
It wasn't really shiny.
23:41
And then you had to sand it and buff it out
23:44
in order for it to get that deepness and that shine that they're known for.
23:48
But the problem with lacquer is it's brittle.
23:51
And if you bump it, if panel gaps are quite not right
23:56
or if the body flexes, it literally cracks and starts to fall off in sheets.
24:03
So that is the downfall of lacquer.
24:06
The other thing I thought would be fun to talk about
24:08
that I found most people don't know.
24:12
And I believe this was a Jeep thing.
24:14
I don't think AMC created it,
24:16
but we always built Jeeps to be kind of a tool.
24:20
And we got to make sure they were put together and put out quickly.
24:25
So you put it together and then you spray it.
24:28
Yes. And that means that between panels
24:31
and that kind of stuff, you don't really have any coverage.
24:36
So if you take your fender off your CJ five
24:41
and it hasn't been taken apart before,
24:44
you're going to literally hear a pink oak
24:46
and you're going to crack that seal.
24:48
And there should be rust and bare steel somewhere
24:52
between that to that seam.
24:54
And they still basically do that today.
24:58
So that's why if you take your hinges off or any of that stuff,
25:02
there is no paint underneath that hinge
25:05
because they look at it as, well, we don't if we put everything together.
25:09
Now we're not marring the hardware.
25:11
We put a good coat of paint over it.
25:13
It seals that edge and off to the races we go.
25:18
Now in the comments here,
25:19
we've got Gino saying Mercedes Benz is developing a solar paint.
25:23
And we'll actually talk a little bit more about that
25:25
as we get through into the future of paint.
25:28
Yes. But I just wanted to make mention that we did see that comment.
25:32
We did. And we will attempt to address it
25:36
despite this riveting conversation about lacquer paint cracking.
25:39
I would love to take a moment and tell people about U-joints
25:42
if anybody would like.
25:43
Now we're going to continue on.
25:44
Oh, because we got to move into the 70s and 80s.
25:48
Yes, 70s was pretty much the same.
25:50
Still enamel, still assembling them, spraying them.
25:54
But we did have some bright colors come out again.
25:57
That's also where urethane base paints was introduced.
26:00
And that's the multi-stage coatings with urethane paint.
26:05
I just absolutely know nothing about enamel, lacquer, urethane.
26:11
I'm sitting through this podcast right now
26:13
recognizing how much I don't know.
26:19
So you don't know. I just don't.
26:21
And I love I love that through this business.
26:25
I've learned appreciation.
26:27
You know, obviously Greg, our lead performance mechanic,
26:29
worked in the paint and body world prior to coming here.
26:33
I recognize appropriate paint processes.
26:36
But because I just have no interest in it,
26:38
it's not something a knowledge base that I pursued.
26:42
You know, what I learned really early on trying to build my model cars
26:45
with my dad, if you spray enamel
26:48
and then you put lacquer over top of it, bad things happen.
26:51
Oh, it just slips off or something, right?
26:53
Wrinkles up like something.
26:54
Yes, because lacquer is hotter of a paint,
26:57
more solvent than the enamel.
27:01
I have I am conscious of those things,
27:04
but it's the beauty of why we are a highly functional business
27:08
and we have this process of quality paint companies that we work with.
27:14
And this is what I always try to tell people, like, we're not trying to hide anything.
27:17
We're not a paint shop necessarily yet.
27:21
And arguably we subcontract to a number plug there yet.
27:26
We subcontract to a number of high quality
27:29
business who are experts in their field, you know,
27:32
because I'm learning so much today in this process.
27:35
And the reason that your theme base was introduced
27:39
is because they were looking for a better UV protection.
27:41
And we talked a little bit about that with the UV and eating through.
27:44
Which makes sense that all these these incredibly muted colors
27:48
that I know the the 40s, 50s and early 60s they had.
27:52
But then by the time that, you know, they're prevalent to me,
27:55
they're very muted, they're sun-fated, they're baked, they're problematic.
27:59
And it is important that I really think the metallic start out
28:02
in the 60s and 70s.
28:04
That's where you see the really pretty blues with metallic 70s and 80s.
28:09
With the metallics and the pearlescent finishes began to appear.
28:12
I want to break it down.
28:13
What for our listeners?
28:15
When you say metallic, let's let's say they don't understand
28:18
because obviously I I painted my first car of metallic gray.
28:21
So what is metallic or or pearlescent?
28:23
So metallic is going to have actually a little metal
28:28
part like metal flake metal particular paint.
28:31
And when you go to spray that, you actually have to spray it
28:36
at the right pattern and and pressure to make that flake
28:42
stand up or lay down in the orientation that you want,
28:45
which is why if you have a metallic painted car
28:49
and you go to try to paint a fender, it's going to have a bad time
28:53
because you don't always know the way it was done before that.
28:57
And the more custom you do it, the harder it will be.
29:00
Same way with the pearlescent.
29:03
That is an additive that you add to the paint as you're mixing it.
29:08
And it gives it a pearl or kind of an effect
29:13
that, again, is only dependent on how it was sprayed, temperature.
29:18
All that stuff makes it basically get a one and done shot at it.
29:21
And it has to be, which, again, this first car that I did at 15
29:26
was a metal flake silver, which, of course, I mean, silver.
29:31
Silver has a lot of flaking at the start, correct.
29:33
And we added more flake to it. Of course you did.
29:36
Because if a little bit is good, then a lot is better in the Simpson,
29:39
you know, mantra. I'm really surprised you repainted silver from red.
29:42
I did. But it was a muted red.
29:45
And I was convinced that I was going to get pulled over constantly.
29:49
Of course you did. Neither here nor there.
29:50
That was that was a rumor.
29:51
And you did get pulled over constantly.
29:53
But that was not related to the color.
29:54
See, I did not need any help is what it comes down to.
29:58
I didn't need help in the process.
29:59
I also didn't use his dome light going down the road
30:02
because I didn't get pulled over.
30:03
I'm sure of it. That's 100 percent true.
30:06
Get out of my head, Scott.
30:07
So. So I absolutely.
30:10
And that was why our prep process had to be so rigorous.
30:14
Yeah, because when we're doing a full color change, we're doing a full color
30:17
change, but also the heavy metal particular, the heavy metal flake
30:22
when we went to shoot it, we needed to be able to shoot at one consistent rate.
30:27
And if you you haven't lived until you sprayed silver so heavy
30:30
that it runs the flake and you can see it really
30:35
gather in lows and highs on the paint.
30:38
That don't ask me how I know that.
30:40
I was going to say, that is not what mine looked like.
30:43
I would love to know.
30:44
I mean, I think that car has probably been turned into a pop can in Asia at this point.
30:48
But yeah, that's the fate of that car needed to be.
30:53
But I really would love to see what that paint looked like today.
30:56
You know, all right, you don't.
30:59
I've done such a good job.
31:00
So if we jump to the nineties.
31:02
Yep, that is the clear coat revolution.
31:05
Yes. And they didn't know how to properly do that.
31:09
I've heard a multitude of different reasons.
31:12
Reds and whites were really the biggest offenders of the clear
31:17
just falling off in sheets.
31:19
That's where we started finding our first vehicle
31:22
so you could literally take an air gun and blow out the paint
31:26
and it would come off in big chunks.
31:29
I've heard everything from the paint underneath.
31:31
The clear was too hard and the clear couldn't grab it.
31:34
That the clear wasn't well made.
31:39
Multitude of different things.
31:40
There are solvents still in the base coat when they cleared it.
31:43
Yes, 10 different businesses or individuals
31:46
who get 10 different stories. Absolutely.
31:48
But any event, they came off in sheets
31:51
and then that initial color layer
31:54
because they were able to put a clear protectant over it
31:57
was the crappiest paint ever.
31:59
So the minute your clear went away,
32:02
your base coat was was done.
32:06
And there's a myth that you can go and
32:09
read clear the base, not in my experience.
32:13
At least maybe if you like the moment it fails
32:17
because the base coat is gone and a blink of an eye.
32:21
And next thing you know, you have the cool rust patina.
32:23
And that's when Neil starts to like it.
32:25
Yes, that's only when I'm interested.
32:27
That's the the cutting creams and all of that came out
32:30
and you could move the clear around.
32:33
But really, you're just dragging the base and sparing it and made a mess.
32:37
I I still, you know, talking about exactly that,
32:41
I attempted to wax a car.
32:43
I had I had literally I had literally started
32:47
my automotive experience when I was 12 with mopeds
32:51
and go carts and stuff like that.
32:54
And then I, you know, I got my first car at 15
32:56
and then the Jeeps and whatnot.
32:58
And I did a Monte Carlo with a friend and a whole bunch of stuff.
33:02
I had this great mixed experience working in the automotive field,
33:07
not as a student, but as an enthusiast.
33:10
And I still distinctly remember attempting to wax a car
33:16
as like an 18 year old.
33:17
And I still remember like bringing the car to the high school.
33:19
Were you doing wax on, wax off?
33:24
You absolutely were trying to imitate that.
33:27
It was so terrible when I got it into the sunshine.
33:31
And I still remember like some guys walking over and being like,
33:34
look how awful that is, you know,
33:36
swirl the crap out of it, swirl the crap out of it.
33:40
And I still remember being like, I have done engine swaps.
33:43
I have rebuilt engine.
33:44
I was like, again, I didn't go to the Voed or the tech school.
33:48
It's a tough mistress, the pain.
33:52
automatically and I couldn't wax a car.
33:55
And really, that's a good way to tell what kind of paint
33:58
you have on your old car.
33:59
If you go to wax it and your rag turns the color of the car.
34:03
Yes, that's an ammo.
34:06
If you don't, then it's got a clear coat over top of it.
34:10
And if you suddenly do, well, guess what?
34:12
You've gone through the clear coat at this point.
34:14
Well, and that's I have no idea.
34:18
I kind of even don't remember the car, necessarily.
34:20
I just remember the feeling of failure because I was like,
34:24
man, I don't have any idea how to wax this car, how to work with this paint.
34:28
It was so easy to cut through that clear, though, on the accident.
34:32
I mean, I can't tell you how many times I'd be trying to do the wax job
34:35
and trying to make it look nice and clean and appropriate.
34:38
And as I'm waxing, I start to see the faint color
34:42
in this the slush of the wax.
34:46
I went too deep. Oh, God, right.
34:50
So we move through.
34:51
We also, I think it's in value.
34:52
I think it's valuable to mention that the actual metal,
34:57
the metal energy that we were using, obviously, in our oldest vehicles
35:00
was of such high high purity content.
35:03
We've talked about this to this day that we can remove hinges
35:08
and we can remove lug nuts.
35:09
We can remove bolts
35:11
despite the fact that they've been happily affixed for darn near
35:15
100 years in some situations, 60 years.
35:18
Yeah. And and other than cracking the paint or distorting it
35:23
in some capacity, you know, relatively unbolts and bolts back together.
35:26
Whereas are the metal
35:28
energy by the 80s and then the 90s gets watered down.
35:33
So as soon as we burn through that clear and base now,
35:38
that patina is not exactly that.
35:40
It's just flat out rust.
35:41
Yes. And rusting from the inside out
35:44
or the way that panels are layered, you know, is is challenging.
35:49
Think of your YJs and then, especially T.J.
35:53
fenders and the manner in which the panels are layered, the quality of metal
35:58
they were using, the way that schmutz can kind of get up and creep in
36:02
between the panels that literally rust from the inside out through the paint.
36:05
They added foam in between like on T.J.
36:08
fenders between the inner structure and the outer structure.
36:11
They literally put foam in there.
36:13
The cavities of Cherokees.
36:14
Yeah. And of course, because because as a society,
36:19
we were trying to make our vehicles less utilitarian and more mass consumption.
36:25
And so ultimately, we needed them to be a little quieter.
36:28
We needed them to have some sound deadening and some that kind of robust
36:31
sponge would have dried out quicker.
36:33
I am curious if Jerry has any way in on that,
36:37
if he has any, if there was a specific reason why
36:40
that kind of stuff started taking because they needed to sell them in our
36:43
deep in five years anyway.
36:46
So in the 90s is when we started seeing other cool colors again
36:53
I remember like T.J.
36:54
As we literally have a T.J.
36:56
on property, it's a purple pearl paint.
36:59
The guy was very excited about that.
37:01
There was I was going to say, I think we've done a tremendous
37:05
disservice to a large swath of Mopar enthusiasts and not mentioning
37:10
plum crazy and the well, that's the Mopar side, not technically the jeep side.
37:18
So there is a fringe group of our listeners.
37:21
If you want to be, you know, you want to talk about what I'll talk
37:24
about the big bad colors.
37:25
If we want to talk about actually are, you know, the right seam of things.
37:30
So before we get into the colors, Jerry did weigh in.
37:33
He says automotive paint is a true science and is very vulnerable
37:37
to so many failure factors that are continually being addressed
37:40
by the manufacturers as the materials evolve.
37:43
And I think that's exactly it.
37:44
The materials, both that with their painting and their painting with.
37:47
So just how they're being applied and who's painting it, right?
37:50
What's painting it?
37:50
Robots were started painting it by the, you know, at some point in the 90s.
37:55
So in the late 60s in the muscle car era,
37:59
we had to get people's attention by all means possible.
38:03
So we had to have loud exhaust.
38:05
We had a big motors and they have for the AMC side.
38:09
They had the big bad colors.
38:11
They had blue, orange and green that were used on the performance cars.
38:17
And then they also did red, white and blue cars for their racing and that
38:20
kind of stuff on to the Mopar side.
38:23
We had plum crazy purple at just because someone weighed in.
38:29
We got Brilla vision through trying to hold back tears.
38:32
Tank green as one of your big bad colors.
38:35
Well, I was getting there.
38:36
I know, but I really wanted to value his input as a listener.
38:40
And just we're about 20 years too early.
38:44
That's OK. Anyway, there was orange.
38:48
There was there were vibrant colors.
38:51
There were vibrant colors.
38:52
There's literally was an ad for this in the 60s for Chrysler that had a car.
38:57
It was chopped up into many different colors that were all about six inches
39:02
wide, and it was every color you could get on that model.
39:05
And it's the entire length of the car.
39:08
And so the only reason I really wanted to bring it up is because because in the 80s,
39:13
following who knows what the heck happened globally and domestically.
39:18
All of the vehicles turned to poop, brown and ugly red and like maroon.
39:23
It was a tough time.
39:24
It was a dark time.
39:26
And so when you talk about re-releasing colors in the 90s,
39:29
I wanted that perspective to go from the 60s and 70s
39:32
where we got to the pastels, the lightness, then the boldness.
39:36
Yeah. And then the poop browns.
39:39
So it did be fair because by the time we saw the browns,
39:42
they were not very attractive.
39:46
No, if you go in the golds, the whole thing, but not like a good gold,
39:50
like a mustardy, colonel mustard.
39:53
In the time of their era, you got to imagine what,
39:56
you know, shag carpet and all that kind of panel walls. Absolutely.
40:00
Yeah. But that specific brown with a high metallic that was clean
40:04
and shiny and pretty, like it would have been on the lot, brand new,
40:08
actually isn't that bad.
40:10
You let it age to the where we started seeing them in a field
40:13
and it's just brown and somebody's painted it 14 times with,
40:17
you know, red oxide primer and any brown they could find.
40:20
Absolutely. It took terrible.
40:22
But if you go back and you find the original untouched
40:25
and you polish it out, it isn't terrible.
40:28
I can understand we're attracted to someone to buy it initially,
40:33
just in age. Well, I feel like
40:36
now I just heard like you trying to explain to your child
40:39
why they should eat their Brussels sprouts.
40:41
That's all I literally heard.
40:43
Yeah, Brussels sprouts.
40:44
And I like Brussels sprouts, but I mean, explaining it to like a five year old
40:47
me like, well, they're not terrible.
40:49
If you put enough cheese and butter and hot sauce and bacon.
40:53
So in the late like 78, 79
40:57
and it's off topic again, but it's a GMC truck.
41:00
They had the most awful green was not metallic.
41:03
I was really hoping we were going to talk about fall guy, but OK.
41:06
That truck was brown. I know.
41:08
Well, I know that's why I thought you were going to fall guy.
41:11
And I was excited. I was there for it.
41:12
And then that green truck, the green got awful.
41:17
It was just there was nothing exciting about it.
41:21
It wasn't an attractive color green. GMC, you're saying.
41:24
Yeah, I don't remember this.
41:27
I remember the Ford green of that era.
41:29
Well, they had one as well.
41:31
That was also hideous.
41:32
It was like a forest, but not even an attractive forest.
41:35
Exactly. 100 percent.
41:38
Yeah, but you got me all excited.
41:39
I thought we were going to talk about fall guy.
41:41
I mean, who drove a poop brown pick em up truck,
41:44
but at least it was cool what he did with it.
41:45
I'm going to fast forward us a little bit in time into the 2000s now.
41:49
I was trying to keep us on track. I know I was not.
41:53
I like to hear about the viscosity and
41:55
all friction modifiers and oil.
41:57
We're getting the stuff that you actually know.
41:58
All right. Specialized coatings and powder coat.
42:02
Well, real quick, since we're in the 90s,
42:05
he said Jeff has thrown his production notes.
42:10
Let me talk about wiring and environmental
42:12
sealants on your wiring in the 80s and I would like to talk about that, folks.
42:17
There's a tie in. So of course, there's a tie in.
42:20
I started talking about on RTJs.
42:23
There was that cool purple pearl.
42:25
They also had a green that was also on the Cherokees.
42:29
That was a very cool metallic green, kind of like a rescue green, but not quite.
42:35
We literally, me and my wife went to try to buy a Cherokees specifically
42:38
because it was that color. What year Cherokee are you trying to tell me?
42:45
So not the green I had.
42:47
No, not because that was hideous.
42:49
Correct. OK, I was going to say,
42:50
don't try and tell me that color was good.
42:52
My my my 97 was ugly ascent.
42:54
This had some pearl in it.
42:56
It was a really cool color.
42:57
I only seen, honestly, like two or three cars.
42:59
OK, that color. That's fine.
43:01
You get into later.
43:03
We have the orange back again on the TJ.
43:06
So why I bring this up is we started to paint Jeeps
43:11
a cool color to get attention to get it to sell a new market demographic.
43:18
And as we pushed into the JK, they went off the rails with that.
43:23
100 percent. We had custom colors.
43:25
We that we then see the birth in the TJ of the Black Creek Jeep Group,
43:30
the White Jeep Group, the Blue Jeep Group.
43:33
And that just lit up even more in the JK, where we had special blues.
43:39
And then we had people arguing that you weren't blue enough for the blue group.
43:45
And and you're not actually gray or blue, so you can't be part of the gray group.
43:51
And but you're still not blue enough for the blue group.
43:55
I absolutely went off the rails at some point.
43:57
You know, it did. It did.
43:59
And I think it's so funny because I think you you marked it perfectly
44:03
in the sense that previously these were two utilitarian vehicles.
44:07
Absolutely. And as they wanted to further the the market demographic
44:13
of consumers, they recognized they had to attract people through paint.
44:19
Yeah, tire wheel packages and paint.
44:20
Because otherwise, those of us who are cut from the cloth where I am,
44:24
you basically got a handful of dull colors with the same aluminum wheel.
44:28
And you were supposed to be happy about that.
44:30
Yeah. And just for Joe, yes, they had tank green.
44:34
It was like a two year only color.
44:36
It was a homage to the olive drab, but it was shiny.
44:40
And there were literally just tank green groups.
44:43
Yes. Not all greens.
44:45
No. And if you went in there with a regular green and tried to post,
44:49
they would flame the crap out of you.
44:51
Yes. And make you leave.
44:53
You had you had a place in your heart for those tank green.
44:55
I did. You had a green Jeep at one time.
44:57
I did. And there was also a release.
45:00
There was a commando tan.
45:02
There was a tan Jeep that was released.
45:03
Yep. There was a gray as well.
45:05
They recognize the power of marketing paint and and color.
45:10
And and having that paint have a neat or cool name
45:15
that people then would come on to.
45:17
It was great marketing.
45:18
And they're still doing it.
45:19
And the paint was pretty decent.
45:21
We had actually started to get a number of things right
45:24
other than the actual metal products themselves.
45:28
As far as hinge, you know, aluminum with steel and no protection.
45:33
And and that is obviously where the where things go sideways.
45:37
We didn't learn anything from the TJ tailgate hinges.
45:40
No, which I mean, think about the the corrosion
45:43
and bimetal oxidation, which is basically when you're putting
45:46
aluminum and steel in a raw factor near each other.
45:51
We we dealt with this in TJs,
45:55
specifically with their tailgate hinges.
45:58
And yet we thought it would be such a good idea.
46:00
They would make the side the door hinges this way.
46:04
So wild, wild, you know, wild decision at the mothership level.
46:08
So then we get into, again, the craze, the JK starts.
46:12
You get all the aftermarket accessories.
46:15
Now, people can go put stuff on in their driveway.
46:18
And that's where the powder coating stuff starts.
46:21
Yes. And Jeffrey, you're off.
46:23
So powder coating was a more durable finish for off-road use.
46:28
And that's what they were marketing it for.
46:30
So it was designed with the intent to be more.
46:33
Is that better? Yes.
46:34
Designed with the intent to be.
46:36
That's a good way to rephrase that.
46:38
And you'll see that really took off on bumpers, skids and items
46:46
that were meant to hit stuff on the trail.
46:48
And really, it was more so the fact
46:51
that you could take a product that was made 15 minutes ago
46:56
and you could hang it on some hooks.
46:58
You could dust on this powder.
47:00
Walking into an oven and within a half an hour,
47:03
those parts were done and dry.
47:06
And then after they cooled off, you could then package and chip them.
47:09
That is where powder coat really got its.
47:13
It wasn't so much for the durability.
47:15
It was because of speed to market.
47:17
Well, and I think I think there is actually a conversation
47:20
to durability as well, because if powder coat is done right,
47:24
the science of it is a very durable totally.
47:28
But most of the cheaper aftermarket products
47:33
are not trying to do a quality powder coat.
47:36
They're doing the quick get a coat to get it out the door.
47:38
Even the most I worked at a place for a while
47:41
where they made tanks and they would shot blast the tank.
47:45
Not not not the kind that go boom in wars, folks.
47:47
No, like a like a air compressor tank or a propane tank.
47:51
And they would literally shot blast the tanks
47:54
and then powder coat them.
47:55
And some got called coded multiple times
47:58
because they couldn't see what color they were doing and things changed.
48:01
But anyway, they would still rust where anything was joined.
48:07
I think sharp edge.
48:08
You have less powder there where a weld is.
48:12
Yep. It just naturally pulls away from.
48:14
Yep. And they even with that nice process, it still wouldn't last.
48:19
I think part of the challenge
48:21
what from being in business professionally at that time,
48:26
I feel like powder coat was
48:30
a degree of immediate gratification or a
48:34
almost a direct push against cheap paint.
48:38
Well, because if you were a good painter
48:40
and you could honestly prep your prep that bumper, take the time.
48:44
So use your analogy of, hey, I just built this bumper.
48:47
If you were to actually go through the prep process
48:49
and buy the correct paint and spend the expensive amount of money and time
48:55
and do the paint process the way that you're supposed to.
48:59
I'd actually, I would argue, would be more durable
49:02
than most of the powder coat work we saw done takes a week longer.
49:06
Correct. To get to use that bumper.
49:08
Correct. Where like those tanks, for example,
49:10
they come off the the powder coat line
49:13
and they were immediately put on a pallet, shrink wrapped and going on a truck.
49:18
Now, something else that I'm going to bring up
49:20
that really started to come about in the 2000s, early 2000s
49:24
and seems to be launching even more now
49:28
would be your rhino linings and that kind of coating.
49:31
That really because if the powder coating was durable
49:35
and truck bed liner was durable,
49:36
why not paint our jeeps with truck bed liner?
49:38
And that's really where you first start to see that come out.
49:40
And the one thing that is kind of a resounding theme
49:44
of this whole of this whole discussion today is the prep work.
49:49
And we saw a myriad of businesses offering the truck bed liner
49:57
and they oversold it in massive conversations. Right? Yes.
50:02
This is I mean, you had Armadillo liner, you had hard liner.
50:06
Line X, line X, you had rhino linings.
50:09
And it is only as good as your prep work.
50:13
And that is just flat out the kind of the line in the sand.
50:18
And the next thing is, is how does that have tooth?
50:21
Which tooth means is how does it grip onto the surface below it?
50:25
Like on a bed, if you have a paint and even if you scotch
50:29
brighted it, if it didn't get down into the nooks and crannies
50:32
and wasn't able to grab onto that surface, it would come off in sheets.
50:36
Oh, yeah, you get the bubbling of the of it.
50:38
You literally have like the pocket, the pocket so you could poke
50:42
the liner and it would just kind of where and I've done this.
50:46
If you have bare steel that was like sanded with a pretty aggressive grit
50:51
and then you bed lined it, you could not take it off of the chisel.
50:55
Right. Because it is so here.
50:57
Now, the problem with that is that adherence makes you think, OK,
51:02
now it's protected from, say, water intrusion
51:05
because of the porosity of and the shape of the liner.
51:10
It was not designed to be all your coating in one.
51:14
It was designed to be a protectant on top.
51:17
So once you did that, if you laid it out there,
51:20
it would start to rust in the pockets of the liner.
51:23
And obviously I was using cheap liner because I was a kid
51:25
and didn't have tons of money and I wasn't spraying it professionally.
51:28
But you don't have the protection then.
51:32
So you still have to prime it.
51:33
You still have to have that underlying protection.
51:36
There's a conversation.
51:37
We use the the analogy DTM direct to metal paints.
51:41
Then there is a two part paint where you actually need an adhesion promoter of sorts.
51:47
And these are all things that Jerry had mentioned as far as
51:51
when the science of the science, there are development.
51:54
You can't just go to Walmart and buy a paint,
51:57
despite the fact that Instagram has made it wildly popular.
52:00
And by this paint and then all of a sudden shoot your patio furniture.
52:03
Willy-nilly, you you you arguably have to know what kind of paint,
52:08
whereas, you know, what environmental factors to be considered,
52:11
what kind of prep, you know, that kind of stuff.
52:13
There is more to it.
52:14
Sort of on Jeff's thing with the powder coat,
52:17
another craze that we went through was plastic dipping wheels and that kind of stuff.
52:22
And what plastic dip started as is you would have a pair of pliers.
52:27
The handles would be bare.
52:28
You wanted something of that kind of nicer to your hand.
52:31
You would dip it in there and let it dry.
52:34
And then you have a coating on the handles and someone somewhere says,
52:39
well, why can't I paint my car with that?
52:41
Put that into an aerosol.
52:44
And then the whole of like, oh, you can just remove it now.
52:49
It's actually not out there.
52:50
It's been in the sun and UV and all that kind of stuff.
52:53
And I mean portions of it removed.
52:54
Well, it depends on how patient you want to be.
52:58
So then we're going to fast forward
52:59
because we're running low on time to 2010s.
53:02
What became popular in 2010 era?
53:06
Well, I think he's kind of jumped around and said
53:08
I'm plastic dip was absolutely a big, a big push at that time.
53:12
Let's I'm going to emphasize.
53:15
No, I want I want Scott to guess because I think he could do it.
53:18
A I thought we were short on time.
53:20
A protective coating or protective coating, ceramic coating.
53:24
Ceramic coating. Yes.
53:25
Yeah, because I don't care.
53:27
But here I am. Yeah.
53:29
Yeah. Ceramic coating.
53:30
And it's still today is a I don't think that is pain.
53:34
I think of that as wax or protectant.
53:38
But they're actually painting a ceramic coating on at the factory level now.
53:43
So it is actually true because that is actually one of the big pieces,
53:47
as you were mentioning, of going forward.
53:49
Well, again, I was aware that there's some paint protection packages.
53:52
Right. They absolutely upsell them.
53:54
You know, a lot when you go to the dealership and they up church,
53:57
like it smells nice in your vehicle.
53:59
And that's like you pay extra like 50 bucks for that.
54:02
These paint protection packages.
54:04
I want to go to the deal if I'm going to buy the dealership,
54:06
which most people know, I don't.
54:07
But they don't sell patina vehicles.
54:10
They'll sell patina vehicles there.
54:11
But I'm just like you painted the vehicle.
54:15
You shouldn't have to upsell me on the fact that you did your job.
54:18
Your job was to paint the vehicle.
54:20
So it doesn't rust on me because I'm about to give you a ton of money.
54:22
That's a dealership trying to, again, show value for money or that.
54:27
To us, I think that's more of a dealership per dealership thing
54:31
more than the OE manufacturer.
54:34
But but OE even is trying to build in more protective
54:37
the ceramic protection with the hydrophobic properties.
54:40
And they gave us aluminum hinges on the side
54:43
and now aluminum doors that are corroding.
54:45
So of course, they have to do something to show that they care.
54:48
And somebody's a little salty over there.
54:50
They absolutely are as I as I oftentimes say,
54:54
humans are always kind of living in ripple effects.
54:57
And we absolutely are dealing with this ripple effects,
55:00
especially with the JLJT, with these massive corrosion issues.
55:05
My sting gray Jeep has a lot of bubbles.
55:09
How do we create consumer confidence?
55:11
We have to come up with upsells of we're going to now do a protective
55:16
ceramic coating at the factory, manufacturing level.
55:19
Just paint my vehicle.
55:22
If I'm paying you that much, I like pieces of crap.
55:25
But if I'm going to pay you that much money for a new piece of crap,
55:29
it should actually be nice.
55:30
Just paint it. That's your job.
55:31
Here's my call to action.
55:33
Someone, please, for the love of God,
55:35
make some steel doors and tailgates for these Jeeps already
55:39
so that the aftermarket can fix where the OE went wrong.
55:43
The sins of the OE and five to 10 years
55:47
when we have vehicles with doors literally rotting off of them.
55:49
But the rest of it's fine.
55:51
We can go buy this door, paint it and put it on the truck.
55:54
Right. Or the car or on the Jeep.
55:57
Some type of replacement panel.
55:58
So what's the future of Jeep look like, Jeffery?
56:01
Self-healing paint.
56:02
Jeep is rumored to be currently experimenting with self-healing paint.
56:08
There's it's kind of a few different options out there.
56:11
There's more of the elastic polymer
56:13
where the outer coating is actually softer
56:19
so that as it gets little scratches,
56:22
swirl marks, whatever, pinstripes, the sun bakes on it,
56:25
heats it up and it kind of molds itself back into place
56:28
and hides those sins.
56:30
Now, some of this technology exists already.
56:33
Yeah, I remember seeing a thing on that years and years ago.
56:36
Right. But now Jeep is experimenting with application
56:40
and different ways to make it work for Jeep.
56:43
And so you've got that.
56:45
There's the micro capsule technology,
56:46
which I was I was telling Scott a little bit about
56:48
if you think of a McGriddle from McDonald's,
56:52
it's got the little serp pockets in it at a micro level.
56:56
That's what this pain is.
56:57
It's got little pockets of uncured resin in it
57:00
so that when it gets damaged, those pockets rupture
57:04
and fill the void that was created by that damage.
57:07
You know what this means, though?
57:09
It could possibly the death of Patina.
57:16
It could. But there's I mean,
57:18
so you've got the ability for the UV or heat activation.
57:22
You've got the ability for the micro pockets.
57:25
There is the experimentation with solar,
57:27
which was talked about in our comments,
57:30
where the solar paint essentially has
57:35
the electromagnetic properties to create energy
57:40
just from being there.
57:41
Yeah, photogenic properties that absorb energy
57:44
and recharge a battery in the process.
57:48
Paints are ready, very, very expensive.
57:52
If we make it able to conduct electricity or heal itself,
57:57
how are we ever going to afford to paint it?
57:59
You know, I think it's but the value of that is
58:02
that you shouldn't have to continuously repaint
58:05
and you don't have to pay as exorbitant of cost
58:08
to have repairs done
58:10
if you're one that likes that flawless look.
58:13
I'm fascinated by, in general,
58:16
just as a piece that we can share with our listening base
58:20
that good paint is not cheap.
58:24
God, I don't actually understand that, right?
58:27
But from a business person's perspective,
58:29
I am conscious of that.
58:30
We don't sell paint ourselves,
58:34
but we're very in tune with what's happened in the industry
58:37
and an attempt to find suitable alternatives
58:42
to what's available.
58:43
You know, this is kind of a fun way to look at it.
58:46
So back in the day when we were growing up,
58:48
you'd always hear about Earl Scheib, 99, 99 paint job.
58:53
That is five thousand dollars at this point.
58:56
Yeah, I mean, a Mako job.
58:58
Earl Scheib eventually turns into Mako on a coast to coast
59:03
kind of acceptance.
59:04
So if you're listening to us, you might might have heard of Mako,
59:06
but Earl Scheib was the first.
59:08
Yeah. And you're right.
59:10
I mean, that's a two to five thousand dollar paint job.
59:13
And that you're just getting a spray in and go.
59:17
And if you want a really quality, nice
59:19
something we can be proud of it, it's going to last a while.
59:22
You're starting at ten thousand, in my opinion.
59:25
And you're going to almost 30, I would say.
59:28
And then you've got your really custom finishes go up from there.
59:32
Yeah, that's insane.
59:34
Correct. And which is why most of my cars have primer on them.
59:37
But but if you if you're looking at the future
59:41
and you're talking about why why would the self
59:44
healing paint actually be beneficial to get on some of these production vehicles?
59:50
Realistically, it's the resale value.
59:53
It's not I, you know, obviously my my truck, I'm going to go beat it off road.
59:58
I don't care about the paint.
00:00
I the bruises tell stories kind of thing.
00:03
But you're a patina guy.
00:05
Yeah. But if I was buying a hundred thousand dollar wagon here
00:11
and I want to trade that in in two years, three years,
00:14
like a lot of people do, you don't want
00:18
all those scratches and those flaws to be visible when you go to the trade in.
00:22
So if you've got a self healing paint on there,
00:24
it goes back to the dealership looking flawless.
00:27
That means it can resell for way more.
00:29
So the dealership is going to give you more for your trade in.
00:31
Yeah, so there's a long term value added bonus to that kind of.
00:36
Yeah, it does not depreciate the same way that our vehicles.
00:39
I mean, we used to consider a 30 percent depreciation
00:42
from the the point of leaving the dealership lot.
00:45
Right. And I think this changes it.
00:47
You can if you can, you know, kind of reduce some of that depreciation
00:51
for the consumer, they will arguably say, yes, I value this.
00:56
That's an interesting perspective.
00:57
Yeah. And I think you're going to see when that kind of stuff rolls out,
01:00
you're going to see it in the Jeep world and when it rolls out,
01:04
you're going to see it on the higher ends, the three ninety twos,
01:06
the wagon ears, the grand Cherokee limited, you know,
01:10
things that are going to cost more money to begin with.
01:14
I really like the idea of the the solar, you know, kind of process to be regenerative.
01:19
Again, that appeals to my kind of.
01:23
Industrialist nature that I want to push the bounds of electric electrification.
01:29
I think I think that one is further out because of the efficiency nature of it.
01:34
Definitely cool, though.
01:35
Yeah, it's really, really well.
01:37
And it would help sustain range issues that we oftentimes talk about,
01:41
considering we just talked about that last week or so. Right.
01:45
Well, there's a lot of different options for that as well.
01:47
As imagine putting a steel roof on your house that then somehow makes your house
01:54
I mean, there's a bunch of different options that that specific
01:58
you're going to be an industry onto itself. Correct.
02:01
And I hope that one day it does kind of become.
02:03
I mean, I see the the value and I think that probably as we advance our paint
02:08
technologies, we'll probably have to do one or the other initially.
02:12
And I think that Jeffrey talking about the self healing
02:15
probably will get advanced over the, you know, kind of the solar induced paint
02:22
just based on that, that valuation, that resale value and the ability
02:27
to it will maintain and keep my vehicle looking as new as possible.
02:32
That's a cool perspective.
02:33
I think over and this is my prediction over the next five years,
02:36
you're going to see a lot of solar paint options at shows and events.
02:41
But I don't think you see that roll out in the next five years.
02:44
I think you see the self healing paint rolling out in production
02:50
within the next five years of Jeep.
02:51
I agree with you, especially with a lot of these paint protection
02:54
and Jeep trying desperately to regain their relevancy
02:59
and jumpstart sales that have largely struggled over the last few years.
03:03
And I just wanted to reiterate we're specifically mentioning this on Jeep
03:07
because I know that these paint types exist out in other markets.
03:11
Well, we're always higher at markets, but they do.
03:13
We're always we're always learning from other higher other markets out there.
03:17
All right, this was a good one.
03:18
I hope that you cared about it because I certainly didn't.
03:23
And that you thought it was beneficial.
03:26
If you do, we would encourage you to
03:29
go ahead and and make sure you like and maybe leave us a review
03:33
on your favorite streaming platform.
03:35
Additionally, consider sharing it with a friend, family or your local
03:39
Jeep group to kind of get them into a whole snoozefest about paint.
03:43
Because, you know, this was Neil's least favorite topic of the year.
03:48
I know, I thought the guys did great.
03:51
And it is one that clearly our community cares about.
03:55
He's just bland because he's got a silver Jeep and just blends into the background.
03:59
It's just so boring.
04:01
I just today's paint is so
04:05
like the color palettes by the mass consumption is so bland and boring.
04:11
Which is why I love the series and I think that's why I love that Jeep's
04:14
been putting out those unique colors like Tuscadero or rain, which is a new
04:19
purple that yes, yes, you know, there's some really cool colors
04:22
that pop against the majority of which is of itself such a Jeep thing.
04:29
We are the the the enthusiasts, the community who is going.
04:35
We are driving point A to point B, but we want to do it with style.
04:39
We want to then know that if we're going to point A to point B,
04:42
we can also go off road in the process and still get to point B.
04:46
You know what I mean?
04:47
And Giaga Jeepers just made a paint drying comment saying, wasn't as bad as watching.
04:53
And on that note, Jeep family, Jeep on, Jeep on.
05:05
Couldn't have said it better myself, right?
05:07
I know that's why I had to share that last last minute comment
05:10
because I was like, I was like, wow, that's just perfect for you.
05:12
Yes. Oh, without question.
05:15
Let me suck down my my 11th cough drop.
05:17
I know, I'm not happy that I'm sitting next to you.
05:20
I kept going to them.
05:21
Can people hear me moving around in between my teeth?
05:24
Then like, am I crunching on it?
05:26
Yes, I can. Oh, OK, well.
05:30
They probably when they when they heard that we were talking about pay,
05:33
they probably shut it off 55 minutes ago.
05:35
So whatever, we got bigger numbers than we've had for a couple of weeks.
05:38
That's because I right.
05:40
Because again, I'm wrong.
05:41
All I know is that this is going to out do the flat telling episode.
05:45
Yeah, as it should.
05:50
So let me why don't you care about flat towing?
05:52
I want to know why does nobody care about flat towing?
05:56
Because paint's more fun than I don't understand it.
06:00
Why am I the weird?
06:03
Why am I the weird?
06:05
I just don't understand.
06:07
Why am I wrong? I don't know.
06:09
So anyway, I want to get us back on topic.
06:11
So Saturday, I it was a beautiful day
06:15
when I hadn't broke the 36 out of winter jail
06:19
and we went out for a drive, had a nice dinner.
06:22
You had it away for winter jail already. Well, you're the worst.
06:25
It's always on this time of year.
06:27
It's always this could be the last.
06:29
I mean, the fact that he's gotten better at this is very remarkable,
06:32
but you're still the worst. Yeah.
06:35
Anyways, so down to Sunday, Jeff came over
06:39
and got his working whip and got us done on the.
06:44
You were the one cracking the whip
06:45
because you just stood there watching.
06:46
What are you talking about?
06:47
You guys managed to do it before the monsoon.
06:50
We I was worried about you guys by two o'clock around.
06:53
Jeff was a machine.
06:55
Nice. It was very efficient.
06:56
Hour and a half of us.
06:57
I pretty much an hour and a half.
06:59
I was just trying to give him everything he needed.
07:02
Like, you need power. Here's some power.
07:03
Here you need some water. Here's some water.
07:06
He was a great errand boy.
07:08
He was a great co-co-co-co.
07:09
You wander around and just loosely tell you facts while you work.
07:13
No, it wasn't facts.
07:14
It was well, I'm really concerned that we're going to run out of this.
07:17
I think this is I'm worried about this
07:18
and I just had to keep reassuring as I'm going up.
07:20
We're got it. We we're going to make this work.
07:22
We had to count bags of concrete a couple of times.
07:25
Somehow we ended up with an extra bag.
07:27
I still don't understand it
07:28
because we were going to be seven short
07:30
and then we were one positive.
07:32
OK, OK, I made some changes to strategies
07:35
to make sure we utilize our materials appropriately.
07:38
And I was very worried because the ground was very wet
07:42
and we poured some in and it was just water
07:45
that was slightly gray colored.
07:47
And I said, I've done a trust.
07:50
You trust the process.
07:51
You're going to like to build there.
07:52
The first hole I dumped four bags of dry concrete mix in.
07:57
There was no evidence of any concrete in that hole.
07:59
Nice. And I'm like,
08:01
well, we need to modify what we're doing here
08:03
because this isn't going to work.
08:05
We are going to run out of concrete this way.
08:07
See why I was worried about concrete.
08:11
There was a lot of water.
08:12
My concrete guy was worried.
08:13
So I'm like, but the hole was very deep,
08:16
deeper than it needed to be.
08:18
And there was a lot of water in it.
08:19
And I'm like, this this might be a problem.
08:23
And I will tell you before the monsoon happened,
08:25
it did look appropriate.
08:27
And I am still very traumatic triggered.
08:31
We're going to have bad things.
08:32
I just had them body like Jeff's like,
08:34
once it's poured, water is good.
08:36
Once it's poured, water is good.
08:37
But we was I was it was pouring.
08:38
I was like, please, please don't hurt my concrete.
08:42
The nice thing is that they are underground footers.
08:44
So water coming down on the surface of it, it doesn't matter.
08:49
Yes, too much water is bad.
08:51
But as long as we got it poured and got it set and we did use the mixer,
08:55
we actually did mix most of the cement.
08:58
It was just the first couple bags of
09:00
there's so much water was to throw some dry in there to absorb some of this water.
09:04
And appropriately, he's going to have good solid footers.
09:08
One more. Good. Excellent.
09:09
So that that and that.
09:11
Sheldon and I just tried to prep for a pending doom of the four letter word,
09:17
cleaning things and throwing stuff away and finding homes for things
09:21
and that kind of stuff as well.
09:25
Give them shutters over there.
09:27
I don't understand you.
09:29
I mean, I get it. I do. But.
09:33
It gets dark so early and dark in the morning, the dark times.
09:41
Well, I'm glad that you guys got it done before the monsoon.
09:43
I really was thinking about you guys and, you know, hoping
09:46
that you had accomplished what you accomplished.
09:49
Now, the one thing you did mention about 36, which.
09:53
You know, folks who are falling along on your personal social media.
09:57
May or may not know, but I certainly recognized.
10:00
Yeah, was what I put the hood back on.
10:03
I didn't know you had a hood for that car.
10:10
I saw the photo. I'm like, what's on that?
10:13
He's got a hood for that.
10:15
We were moving stuff around the other day, not yesterday,
10:18
but a couple of days before that.
10:20
And Amy's like, can we just put the hood on the car?
10:23
Yeah, why did she want the hood on?
10:27
Gets it out of the way out of the way.
10:29
It's so much cooler without a hood on it.
10:34
But I was like, fine, it actually goes on pretty fast.
10:37
Like, literally, I started the car up back to the driveway
10:40
as it was warming up.
10:43
It's just been avoiding it because it was cool without it.
10:45
You don't have any side panels, though, right?
10:47
You can still I have them.
10:49
They're not primed to match the other paint.
10:51
And because of prior trauma of priming my vehicles,
10:55
multiple different colors and then hitting them called a cow.
10:59
Yes. I'm not doing that.
11:01
Well, OK, let's be honest.
11:02
And the thing is, folks who are following along
11:06
do not really get the appreciation of what your grandma
11:11
looked like, but your grandma did look like a cow.
11:13
It was blue, a gray primer and red oxide primer
11:17
until my wife, then what she was a girlfriend then,
11:20
sideswiped my dad's van and with the quarter.
11:24
And then we painted the quarters, reprimed them gray.
11:27
Yeah. So then at least it was just two colors instead of three.
11:32
It it it was it was not good.
11:35
And it was that way for 15 plus years.
11:38
It's still that way.
11:39
Oh, get out of here.
11:42
If anything was ever more AMC
11:45
gremlin than that, I don't know what is.
11:47
But that's just kind of embodies the whole vehicle.
11:49
So when I went to prime things on the 36, I was like,
11:52
I need to prime them a color that sort of blends in with the rest of the car
11:56
so it doesn't look God awful while I'd never paint it.
12:00
Uh huh. Well, I never paint it.
12:05
Yeah, I thought that was pretty interesting to see the hood back in in the mix.
12:10
And where do you have that stored for the impending snowmageddon?
12:16
Well, right now it's on the cold side of the garage.
12:18
OK. Tucked up as far as possible
12:20
because I thought I could sneak something in behind it, but the car's too long.
12:24
Yeah. So I'm currently going through an existential panic.
12:31
I'm hoping to have a structure to put it in before snow falls.
12:34
He thinks we're going to.
12:36
I've got I've got I mean, whoa, my God.
12:40
I love your look of determination, Jeffrey.
12:42
I told him I said at this point we're committed.
12:45
We can't let the snow fall and bury his holes
12:47
and start over in the winter or in the spring.
12:49
I've I've gone through the I'm in the grieving process at this point in the grieving process.
12:54
So Jeff is my little light at the end.
12:58
We got to get the framing up.
12:59
I was going to say, you can at least set the poles.
13:02
Yeah, let's we have no choice.
13:04
Well, set the poles and get the framing done
13:05
because if you set the poles and don't frame, all your poles are going to warp
13:09
and you're going to have a worse situation come spring.
13:12
I guess I was thinking of the poles being set
13:14
and and not trust, but correct.
13:19
I'm missing the word right now where you, you know,
13:22
where you have them straight up and down.
13:24
But yeah, the life of me, I'm losing the word.
13:26
Reinforced is all I can last year beat me so bad.
13:30
Yeah, it was like a spring day and then impending doom.
13:34
Yeah, well, have 10 feet of snow.
13:37
I am instantly hopeful the way we don't experience that again.
13:39
And I since I ran into that with my wife's boozy she shed.
13:44
Oh, it's Jeffrey and I started a year ago.
13:46
My to my project was to while I had largely had it dried in,
13:52
I did not have my door and door framing and all that kind of stuff.
13:57
So that was my weekend was to ensure that the she shed was completely dried in
14:03
and we could start moving her stuff in there
14:05
so that we could seek some organization to kind of restructure
14:10
as I've got tools everywhere from different projects.
14:13
And so I so the shed is officially winter usable.
14:17
The shed is officially winter usable.
14:19
And I'm thrilled about that.
14:21
And that was a big portion for me this weekend, of course,
14:25
having the the standard, you know, athletic pursuits and whatnot.
14:30
And I do want to just kind of give a brief shout out
14:33
not that anybody super cares about the sports balls among our base.
14:39
But I had a fun experience.
14:40
My kid playing fall ball baseball because he ended up playing
14:44
both football and baseball the same this year.
14:47
The organizers of Kingsville area Little League,
14:51
which is a neighboring town, which my kid played for,
14:54
had the most fun costume game yesterday.
14:59
So kids showed up to play baseball in costume.
15:04
That's fun. So what was the trend?
15:07
There was a lot of ninjas.
15:10
I was some zombies.
15:12
My my kid was a ghostbuster.
15:15
So one of the coaches of one of the opposing teams
15:17
came as a giant chicken inflatable, you know, kudos to him.
15:22
The older kids didn't indulge as much.
15:24
But like our shortstop plate with a banana head on.
15:29
And, you know, it was this deep sense of Americana.
15:35
And I guess I'm bringing it up because the weather was gorgeous
15:38
yesterday morning prior to the storm was was and as a whole,
15:43
I mean, there was four to six to eight games happening yesterday
15:48
among this complex.
15:50
And the games were supposed to happen later in the day.
15:53
They emergency messages came out to everybody.
15:56
Hey, we're moving everything up.
15:58
If you can get there, it's basically going to be shortened or, you know,
16:02
kind of in and out.
16:04
I think we actually only played three innings
16:06
in an hour and 20 minutes or something.
16:09
But it was this great mobilization.
16:13
And again, kids showed up to have fun and everybody, they played music.
16:18
And then they finished with a trunk or treat.
16:21
And I just thought, like, we need to celebrate
16:25
some of this, like where we actually came together in a unified capacity
16:31
to just enjoy some of the things that make us our culture.
16:36
Such a fun and unique and diverse experience.
16:39
Now, you got to come as they are, whether they wanted to be dressed up or not.
16:44
Everybody got to participate in the trunk or treat regardless.
16:47
And it was just a neat environment and a great way to end a very fun season.
16:55
That's awesome. Thanks.
16:57
I on Saturday after work, I ended up driving down to the Grove City outlets
17:04
to have dinner with my best friend from high school for his 40th birthday.
17:08
I had a good good time there.
17:11
And then we were we probably sat around that table for two or three hours and
17:17
drove back. It was 11 o'clock at night by the time we got back home.
17:20
So and then and then I was up doing concrete work.
17:23
You missed the best part of that experience.
17:25
Oh, well, I should share that.
17:27
Yeah, because I told him about it.
17:28
So while we were in, we went to Permané Brothers
17:32
and while we were there on the menu,
17:34
they have this really cool drink that's a duck drink.
17:37
So they're catering to Jeepers in that regard.
17:39
Sure. And I thought that was pretty fun.
17:41
I made a comment about it.
17:42
I was like, that's that's fun.
17:43
Maybe I'll have to try that drink one of these times.
17:45
And when we leave, sure enough, one of the Permané Ducks is on my door handle.
17:52
Oh, get out. It was it was just a little tiny baby duck.
17:55
And I'm like, I think I got ducked by Permané Brothers.
17:57
Yeah. I walk up and sure enough, it's got the logo on there.
18:00
I'm like, so either somebody got the drink and threw it on my Jeep
18:03
as they were leaving because they know that the Jeep community enough.
18:07
Or Permané actually is going out actively ducking Jeeps.
18:11
Sure. And it's important to know for our global listening audience
18:14
that this particular so Permané Brothers is a regional restaurant
18:19
started at Pittsburgh, yep, out of the Pittsburgh area and has expanded.
18:25
And this one is actually kind of on the outskirts of where
18:29
Bantam Jeep Heritage Festival takes place, the one that you were you were dining at.
18:34
Yeah, it was only 15 miles from there, roughly.
18:36
Makes makes perfect sense that they would kind of indulge this
18:41
highly motivated and organized group of enthusiasts.
18:44
And that's a super cool testament to them as a company.
18:47
Oh, and if you haven't been to Permané Brothers,
18:50
if you go to Bantam in June, go check them out.
18:53
There's several in the area, but they're affordable.
18:58
They've got great sandwiches.
18:59
You get some of that Pittsburgh feeling to it with the coleslaw
19:03
and the sandwich and the fries on the sandwich.
19:05
So just an all around unique experience to this region.
19:08
Yeah, love it. I've eaten at the the OG down in the city itself.
19:13
And and very fortunate that, you know, Western PA,
19:17
you know, supports them appropriately.
19:19
So all right, folks, we are going to cut it at that point
19:23
unless there's anything else for the good of the good of the masses.
19:29
We we've got a lot of Jeeps to build a lot of work to do.
19:32
We've we are less than two weeks away from SEMA,
19:37
where we will have two spectacular Jeeps on display,
19:41
a incredible testament to the very fiber of this business
19:46
and in both kind of celebrating both Scott and Greg's
19:51
diligence to the Jeep community and then ultimately the entirety
19:54
of our teams supporting that process
19:57
and bringing our customers dreams true.
20:02
And and so we're going to have those on display
20:04
on a global showcase, if you will.
20:06
So make sure you follow along some of the coverage for that.
20:11
And obviously, in that process, you can tune into Jeffrey
20:15
Jeffrey's Tuesday live updates and kind of see some of the projects
20:19
and some of the the the vehicles that we're working on at any given time.
20:22
So until next time, Jeep on Jeep on Jeep on.