Bonus: Autocar Meets Mission Motorsport's James Cameron

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I'm Matt Pryor and this week I'm talking to James Cameron, who's the CEO and founder

of a charity called Mission Motorsport.

Please enjoy the pod.

Well, I'm delighted to say that I am joined by James Cameron,

founder and CEO of Mission Motorsport.

James, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks very much indeed.

Where are we today?

Oh, I love this place.

We're in, well, we're in Bista, very local to you.

But of course, we're in Bista Motion.

We're in the bit called Bista Heritage.

And we're in the bit of Bista Heritage, which is the Haggerty community space that they've got here,

where they're hosting a lovely Mission Motorsport event today that we run regularly throughout the year.

For those who don't know, I imagine most people listen to this,

we'll have heard of you and we'll have heard of Mission Motorsport.

But for those who don't, tell us what it is.

Directly, a couple of films, you know, that sort of thing.

Do you get that on social media?

People dropping you a note, going, I hated that film you did.

No, I don't know.

I think people tend to realise, but it is one of those, yeah,

I bet you've never heard this joke before.

But they always quote the wrong films, because I love James Cameron's work,

but absolutely for me, you know, The Abyss, The First Terminator, that's where it really was.

But now my background is I was an army officer who did 17 years,

I was in the Royal Tank Regiment, and when I was serving actually,

I founded a service charity, and when I left military service,

I then subsequently found myself running it, terrifyingly, for coming up to 14 years,

which feels like a very long time.

But it's an absolute joy, and it continues to develop and evolve as an organisation,

and that's very much sort of, I don't know whether it's kept me out of trouble,

but it's definitely kept me engaged.

And what does it do?

Mission Motorsport is one of the avenues of recovery sport,

but it's there for those who've served and their families,

and that's a really big audience.

We've got about 2 million veterans in society, plus their families,

that's a huge audience, but we do sports recovery.

So we focus our efforts on those who are most in need and where we can be most impactful.

We can get the biggest bang per buck for charity spend.

The charity's called Mission Motorsport.

We do very little actual motorsport.

It's all about that love of machine and using it to help people on a journey of recovery,

because ultimately, we're trying to make people successful civilians,

and a successful contributing part of society.

The tools that we use for it tend to be four-wheeled in the main,

but we've got just trying to spread positive influence as much as we can

and connect up people who are part of an armed forces community

to people who love automotive and love things with wheels

and to use that as a tonic for recovery.

Do they come to you? Do you find them?

A mixture of both. Some come to us because we do do some shiny things,

and that's important to come and attract people and to get them off the sofa and engaged.

The wounded injured and sick, I think people understand that sort of help for heroes narrative,

and people particularly think about amputees from Iraq and Afghanistan.

But mental health is the thing in which we spend most time and effort.

We never really struggle with people with physical disability

within reason, because motorsport and motoring are completely adaptive.

It's just engineering, and it's only convention that tells us that it's a

H-Pattern gear lever and a clutch brake and accelerator in a certain order.

You can drive a car using a PlayStation controller,

so people are pretty familiar with that.

Physical disabilities, yeah, absolutely we cater for and help people who are on that journey,

but the mental health piece is the biggest bit, which underpins all of it.

Some people arrive because of the shiny stuff,

so a week on Monday we're running an amazing event called the National Transition Event at

Silverstone. Downstairs, when we take over the whole of the wing,

fill it with armed forces communities who are there supporting others who are coming

along behind us, driving networking and behaviors that actually aren't common in the military.

But downstairs, we've got a thing called the Troops Track Day.

We'll have a hundred amazing sort of sports and supercars that are taking people out on the

GP circuit where they see Lewis Hamilton, Lando Norris, race and win on GP weekend.

You use things like that as the attraction tool, and that makes, if it breaks,

the traction of the safer and people come along themselves.

Others are brought to us by defence directly through those who are still serving,

who are on some kind of a recovery journey to help them with that.

Some get brought by friends, some get brought by their spouses,

led by the ear roll as they're sort of dragged towards positive pro-social behavior that's

all about really kind of helping them. So we get people referred to as all sorts of routes.

You say there's people downstairs doing stuff that is behavior that doesn't come naturally

to them in the military. Is that because they don't? Why is that?

Well, the tools of HR that are used most often for hiring are the CV and performance-related

interview. And the CV is entirely written in the first person when you're talking about yourself

and how fabulous you are and the things that you've done and how great it is. In the military,

they're drumming out you talking about I from week one, day one training.

And instead the languages of we and what you're doing as part of a collective,

rather than you singling yourself out as going, you know, I was the best.

So I commanded a squadron of the Royal Tank Regiment. It would feel really counter-cultural

for me to go, yeah, absolutely. I was the finest squadron leader the Royal Tank Regiment

has ever had. The people who were serving at the same time as me, I was head and shoulders

above them. And for everybody before or after me back to 1917, you know, I was a glowing example

of the of the brief. It's horrible and counter-cultural and genuinely gives people difficulties

because they've never done an interview. They've never but they've never written about themselves

in the first person. You just you don't do it for annual reporting, you don't do it for promotion

reporting. So they culturally actually lack the language of being able to talk in terms that

everybody else is ingrained in from the moment that they sort of leave school. They've had a

very different sort of journey. They are less likely to have a degree, more likely to have

significant life experience of things that other people don't get to do. But it's very easy to

feel out of place and out of water when you are leaving one really all-encompassing culture

and being dropped into the civilian world that lies behind. And some people,

some people need some help. The vast majority go on and do absolutely extraordinary things. But

I think thanks to the IRA, they're almost invisible to society. And that's a really

weird thing. In the Second World War, we all, everybody understands what war is. But the IRA

from the 1970s onwards changed our language and it changes society in the way that we think about

things because we hid service from society. So the Second World War era, people had, we still

had rationing in 1953. We sent our kids to the far West Wales in order to be educated for their

safety because they were literal Nazis in the skies above our heads who were trying to kill us.

The whole of the UK experienced deprivation and the harshness and the tension and stress that

comes with that. Whereas in later life, we had these sort of wonderful benefits of the Cold War,

largely saw people serving overseas, so they weren't physically seen. And because of the IRA

threat, domestic terrorism threat, you didn't know if somebody served. So if you and I met in a

pub and you go, what do you do for a living? I tell you all sorts of things that weren't,

I'm serving in the army. And when I first started, that was kind of the way things used to be. So

the 70s, 80s and 90s, you've separated service from society. And we all know what a war is. But

if you say the war, oh, he's talking about the Second World War, he's talking about the Great

War, that was the one before it. And so when you talk about a veteran, we all tend to think about,

we tended to think about that older, the greatest generation that fought in that.

And so we're on earth with all of the people who had served in the interim con. And when they left

the military there, ID cards were taken off them. And they definitely didn't put it in their LinkedIn

profile. And off they went and they forged careers after the military, but they're almost invisible

to society. So when you think about who's a veteran that I know, the chances of you contextually

knowing somebody who lives near you, drinks in the same pub, all of the rest of it is dramatically

reduced. And we need to reconnect that a bit. Help for heroes were extraordinary because they

captured the country's sort of zeitgeist around the Afghan and the Iraq era stuff. But it was

very much about those who were most in need, who'd had a really terrible experience, who were wounded

in some way, and it was awful. And we tend to, if you're a BBC scriptwriter and you want to write

a veteran role, a contextually on, then you go down a tick list of going, yeah, okay, so

real difficulties are fitting into society, perhaps alcohol abuse, domestic abuse and PTSD.

I'm like, I've got that t-shirt. But I wasn't left with that. I think the thing that we're left with

is post-traumatic growth. And that's not talked about or reflected in the same way.

What is post-traumatic growth? Well, if we physically train you, literally break muscle

putting yourself through stress, and it builds back stronger, because you've experienced that

tension, that trauma, you become stronger and more able to be able to be broad and cope with

things. And for my own personal experience, I mean, I was, I'm clearly a product of my genetics

and they're not bringing in leads. I remain blunt to an absolute fault, much to the agony of, you

but I'm also really shaped by 17 years in the army and what that kind of did for us.

And it's not for the worst in a lot of ways. You're enriched by that. If you leave a soft

and sheltered existence, you tend to be more selfish in your outlook. You've got less empathy

for the plight of others. Whereas if you've experienced some of that and you've seen some

of those things and experienced it yourself, you're much more likely to have a different view on life

that could be really positive. And post-traumatic growth is my overwhelming personal experience,

but also the tens of thousands of veterans that we've actually seen through the charities programs.

And these people are awesome. I've got the easiest job in the world because I bask in their

reflected glory. They are incredible and they never cease to amaze me. And I've got the easiest

job in the world because all I do is just try and seek to use the levers that I can to shine a

light on them so that people can go, yeah, they really are. They're brilliant. And that's very

rewarding. Do some of them have skills they don't know are as useful as they are?

Totally. And they're almost incapable of talking about themselves in certain positives.

Everything is very sort of self-deprecating. I mean, the ridiculous thing about that whole

not writing about yourself in the first person, the only time you would do is for me was when I

was ordered to write an article for Tank Magazine, the sort of regimental journal. You're like,

oh, God, really? And you had to write an article. And if you'd quoted yourself in it or put your

own name in it or worse, there was a picture with you in it, your peers would crate you. So you would

actually get fined to create a booze for showing off. And so, yeah, coming from that kind of culture,

you tend not to be that brilliant at sort of going, yeah, absolutely. I've done, you know,

extraordinary things. And there's one guy, we're here in Bista, which was the home of the pioneer

call for many years. There's a guy I met called Gary Dunning in my last posting. And Gary was an

extraordinary bloke. He was also one of the most self-deprecating people I'd ever, ever met. And

he was in a temporary position. But you tried to get him to explain what he did. And he's like,

yeah, no, I'm RCMOs assistant at HQ Arc. Well, okay, hang on, let's pull that apart. What does

that actually mean? Because he'd tell you he's a pioneer. So he digs trenches for people to have a

pee in. You know, if you if you're really boiling down what the pioneer could do at the least

attractive level, then yes, it does that. And the job he was doing at the time was.

So I said, okay, so you're the, you're the HR managers, director, assistant for a NATO headquarters

of how many people and he's like, it's 400 and tiddly bomb. And you're like, okay. And how many

of those are you responsible for? And he's like, well, I deal with all of the NCOs and stuff. So,

you know, it was then a subset of like 100 and tiddly bomb people. And how many different trades

are they from? And it was 20 something different trades and avenues and all the rest of it. Okay.

And what do you do for them? Do you give them advice on their careers? Do you give them feedback

on stuff? Do you load them on courses? Do you help them with that? Yeah, all of those things.

Brilliant. What's the RCMO's name? And he looks at me like I'm daft like, sorry, the

the careers management officers, his boss's name. And he looks at me and he goes,

well, you know, it's gapped. I'm like, okay, so you're actually stepping up, you're filling in for

the guy does the hole. He's like, yeah, how long have you been doing that 18 months? Wouldn't have

even thought to mention it. But you put that in civilian terms. What the guy was doing as a bloke

who would tell you that his job is to dig trenches was quite extraordinary. But he doesn't only lack

the language to be able to talk about it in terms that an HR person would understand. But he culturally

would not for all of the reasons of why he just wouldn't recognize that that was extraordinary

and unusual. And I know it's not all about jobs, but is the car industry

aware and receptive? And the the charity began in 2012. We an extraordinary thing happened in 2014,

which is the first Invictus games. And we I had mates in Jaguar Land Rover.

And in powertrain in Jaguar Land Rover at the time, I think they had the best part of a

remew battalion of reservists who were working in powertrain. But it was incredibly difficult

to get people into jobs there. It was like it was lit camel through the eye of the needle,

they had to have a degree, they had to fit the right profile, regardless of any military experience.

So it was possible, but only with a minority of people. And there were some real frustrations

of people who who failed to fit through that needle for various reasons where you could just see

the quality that was being lost by by the company that was filtering them out without

realizing it. The first Invictus games happened, and we were parachuted in at the last minute to

help with a thing called the driving challenge, which was basically an opportunity for one of

the sponsors, Jaguar Land Rover, to put vehicles alongside competitors and things like that.

It was wonderful. Nobody knew what Invictus would be like, and it was extraordinary,

it was life changing for so many people. And as JLR reflected on how well it had gone,

I'd been invited to the wrong after action review and had ended up in a much bigger

boardroom up in Whitley instead of, I think I was supposed to be in an operational after

action review in Gaiden, and interrupted the chap who turned out to be the HR director who

was busy reassuring the CEO that JLR were absolutely committed to hiring those who'd served.

And I interrupted him, so it was really interesting you say that because your HR

procedures are custom designed to exclude service people and you don't realize you're doing it,

and at which point all went very quiet and everyone turns around the looks like, what the hell.

But I had the opportunity to explain ourselves, and I'm incredibly proud now that Jaguar Land

Rover, one of those companies that really took it seriously. And since the first of January 2015,

more than 1,600 veterans have been hired by that company. And that's extraordinary. It's

extraordinary that they know, it's extraordinary that they count, and it's extraordinary that they

care. And they've achieved it. Actually, we don't do that work for them for more than 10 years. We

have been instrumental to help run their Armed Forces Engagement Program, but what we did was

harness the veteran community within that company itself, so that when a Navy CV landed in front

of them, it's very difficult. I'm in the Army, so I don't know what the Navy ranks are. I faintly

know that they've got pointy ships and flat top ones, and that's about the limit of my,

some lean in and out. I quickly get lost. So I couldn't add value to that. So what hope as

an HR professional got of learning all of the ranks and complexities of our military.

But if they know where to go within the company to go and find somebody who would go,

oh yeah, hang on, you need to have a chat with this. And chances are they've applied for the

wrong job, because they don't know what a level four engineering test supervisor bracket's omissions

is. Is that a Lance Corporal's job or a Brigadier's job? I don't know. If I don't know,

the Lance Corporal and the Brigadier haven't got much hope. So they've probably applied for the

job on the basis of a couple of keywords, my safe project management, location, salary,

but otherwise it's a bit of a swag. But if you've engaged your veterans within the company to be

able to go, actually, there's somebody who's really we're talking to, but they've applied for

the wrong job, they really need to be over here, then you have got the opportunity as a company

to tap into talent that otherwise you might have overlooked. And that's been something that the

automotive industry has wholeheartedly embraced. With the support actually of SMMT, Society of

Motor Manufacturers and Traders, from 2019 and taking it seriously, there was a mission automotive

initiative across the automotive industry. And it means that we've helped lots of companies to do

this from, yes, the biggies, all the way down to the SMEs who through the advocacy of their industry

body find out that you don't pay national insurance contributions as an employer for the

first year of somebody who has just left the military. And they don't find about that from

the government because who listens to the government's sort of detailed bits on anything.

Small Bob's widgets of Peterborough doesn't, but they listen to SMMT because they pay money to SMMT

to harness best practice from elsewhere. And if that helps save a company six grand, which results

in a veteran getting a opportunity that perhaps they otherwise wouldn't have had, then we're

nailing it. And we're helping British business as well as those who serve the country.

Is it hard? Yeah, it's, well, I've been helped by having this sort of religious fervour, which has

been really helpful. There's only so long you can sort of do that. But the joy of my job isn't

the big things. I mean, we've done stuff with the Royal Foundation. We've done things with,

you know, obviously, Invictus is really exciting. And we've got Invictus, which is coming

back to the UK for the first time next year. It will be in Birmingham 10th to the 17th of July,

2027. We will be hosting an Invictus Games back in the UK. And that's huge and wonderful and

exciting. And there's lots of great stuff that kind of comes with that. But it's the little

wins that keep me alive. They're lovely. And today, we've got a four by four event on here,

low level edge of the airfield, you know, stuff with someone's conveniently dug some holes,

which, you know, we've just been out watching Land Rovers and Aerial Nomads, you know,

find their way in and out of. But the conversations which are happening in here are wonderful,

because we've got some volunteers who are coming in who happen to be really good in IT.

And we've also got some beneficiaries here who happen to be in real need of a job

in that exact thing. And it's the conversations that are happening in the round

are absolutely joyous. And the families that come together for these things are lovely.

That community bit, I adore it. And that's, yeah, that's the real lifeblood.

Do you have you noticed a change in

the kinds of people and the kinds of conflict they've been involved in, the kinds of service

they've been involved in over the past 14 years? Yeah, absolutely. And it's a real responsibility

for us and for me to make sure that are the things that we're doing not right for

how we were in the past or even how we would have liked for us to have been in the past.

But that we're relevant. People do look out and there's sporting elements of it. I mean,

there is a real broad spread of what we do. And I'll talk in grand terms about sort of

changing the way society perceives veterans. And that's really moving some big levers in society.

And at the other end, you've got people who are driving here for the first time on hand controls

in a field on the outskirts of Bista. That's quite a big spread of stuff.

But we've got to make sure that we are attuned to the needs of our audience. And from 2012,

you know, where you've got people who had lost limbs within that calendar year,

people who've still got sand behind their ears coming back from Helmand through to now,

they don't look the same anymore. They are more bearded, he said sat here with a beard.

They are fatter, he says sat here putting more pressure on the chair than I would have a few

years ago. And their needs are different as you go further down the line. And the mental health

piece, there's a real lag to that that you don't necessarily see straight away, but you then

subsequently see popping up down the line too. And the families, how do we meet the needs of

those two? I'm really proud that we've gone from 8% females on a lot of our events to last year in

in 2025, we were at 24%. And that's because we're we're engaging families much better than we

we have in the past. And we've got an offering that's that's also helping the spouses to

because if you can make the whole family work, and you can make that piece work, it makes the

individual much more likely to succeed, because they've got all the stuff around them that helps

make you a complete person. Should we talk cars? Yeah. When did you what when how?

If this was a job interview, which I clearly have got no experience of doing, and they go,

well, you know, what are your weaknesses and your modesty, or honesty, that's a weakness.

I don't give a shit what you think is lovely. I think my honest one would be cars. Yeah, man,

yeah, I've always loved automobiles. I'm still, if I could have all of the money that I've wasted

on cars, I would waste it on the car. I mean, that's 100% true. And so I think I've ticked,

I've ticked a lot of boxes along the way of stupid things, which I've owned, crashed, had to

rebuild, rototip seals, you know, pretty much everything I've had an Italian. The only thing

I haven't had a, I haven't had an Alpha, but I have had an Integrale, and I have had a Maserati

and a V8. So I think I, you know, I tick those. Landrovers have been a bit of an affliction because

when I was a student, the only motorsport I could afford to do was off-road trialing,

which you could do in something which you could also drive as your daily. Now, by the time I

left university, I'd stretch that to a bit of an extreme, and I had a 1965

Unimog X-German Army crew cab. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, it didn't have a roof, perfect

student set of wheels. You could fit 32 people in it in the centre of Newcastle when they won the

league. We drove to Holy Island when the tide was in. Yeah, it was glorious. I swapped it for a

1978 Camaro, which I nearly, that was nearly the car that I turned up to Sandhurst in that would

have just caused apoplectic rage, I think, amongst the household division. I think I've only personally

owned, I get away with it a little bit through Jude, my wife, but I've only ever owned one front-wheel

drive car, so rear-wheel drive, okay, four-wheel drive stuff, and that was really my thing.

And I've done a lot of racing. I've been lucky enough to do it over the years for various people

and alongside various people, and it was that love and knowledge of motorsport that when I was

coming back from Afghanistan in 2012 and saw this proliferation of sport being used for fantastic

good, and you see things like Invictus come out of it. Motorsport was being used, and it was

like the Wild West, there were people doing all sorts of things and causing more harm than good,

in some cases. Spending their own money, crashing, doing things that were way beyond

where they should have been, or getting extra bits, sawn off them as a result of an infection

they've received because they're out hill rallying because someone's told them they're a hero and they're

going to go and do Dakar. So people make, cars are shiny things, so people make emotional decisions

instead of rational ones, and if we are to use them as the powerful tool that they can be for

positive good, then it's got to be done responsibly, and that really manifested itself in the charity.

So, yeah, that responsible use of something that's really emotive and cool is kind of where it is.

But yeah, when I'm not in cars or when I have a spare moment, I am on the auction sites,

where I'm reading various bits and pieces, or I'm listening to automotive podcasts,

all of the rest of it. My wife's largely given up on me as a sentient human being,

but she quite likes a quick motor too, which is one of the reasons why she tolerates me.

Excellent. I've got one last question here, because I know I've seen you talk about this before.

Some people say, here's a picture of a tank, and you go, that's not a tank.

For the listener, what's the difference between a tank and not a tank?

So everybody thinks that anything on tracks is a tank, or anything armoured on tracks,

therefore, is a tank. But there's lots of, if we're really talking about tanks,

then it's a main battle tank. And a main battle tank is not there to transport people from A

to B, and its main job is actually destroying other tanks. And yeah, big turret, big gun,

but used in the direct fire role. So there's other things that look like artillery pieces, which are,

yeah, for the sort of chaps who like to go to war, where you have to send your laundry forward,

that's for them. Anyone in the artillery now hates me, more than I would do.

But yeah, main battle tank is absolutely, is a front line kind of thing.

And scorpions and simeters and things which fit in your garage are not tanks.

Oh, really? No, no, no.

Super. James Cameron, thank you very much for your time.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for joining us. Steve Cropley and I will be back on Wednesday with our regular

My Week in Cars podcast. Meantime, thanks to our sponsor Anderson,

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Bonus: Autocar Meets Mission Motorsport's James Cameron

About this episode

adaptive motorsport and motoring

H-Pattern gear lever

clutch

Silverstone

National Transition Event

Troops Track Day

Lewis Hamilton

Lando Norris

powertrain

Jaguar Land Rover

Invictus Games

driving challenge

SMMT

Lancia Delta Integrale

off-road trialing

Unimog

Chevrolet Camaro

four-wheel drive

rear-wheel drive

hill rallying

Dakar

auction sites

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