CarCast+Edmunds - Genesis Magma GT supercar, G90 Wagon and entry into motorsports. Plus, the Porsche Cayenne EV.

AI agents are everywhere, automating tasks and making decisions at machine speed.

But agents make mistakes.

Just one rogue agent can do big damage before you even notice.

Rubrik Agent Cloud is the only platform that helps you monitor agents, set guardrails,

and rewind mistakes.

So you can unleash agents, not risk.

Accelerate your AI transformation at rubrik.com.

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

You chose to hit play on this podcast today.

Smart choice.

Progressive loves to help people make smart choices.

That's why they offer a tool called Auto Quote Explorer that allows you to compare your Progressive

Car Insurance quote with rates from other companies.

So you save time on the research and can enjoy savings when you choose the best rate

for you.

Give it a try after this episode at Progressive.com.

Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates.

Not available in all states or situations.

Prices vary based on how you buy.

October brings it all.

Halloween parties, game day tailgates, crisp fall air.

At Total Wine and More, you'll find just what you need for them all.

You'll find thousands of wines, spirits, and beers at the lowest prices.

Mixing up something spooky, Total Wine and More is your cocktail central for all your

Halloween concoctions.

You'll always find what you love and love what you find.

Only at Total Wine and More, curbside pickup and delivery available in most areas.

See totalwine.com for details.

Spirits not sold in Virginia and North Carolina.

Drink responsibly, B-21.

Hello.

Welcome to the Edwin Tarcast Podcast.

I'm NASA moderator, Deandre, here with Alistair Weaver.

Welcome back from a little Thanksgiving break.

Yeah.

It was great.

I'm feeling very refreshed.

Obviously, you're taking, given that was take two of the introduction, you're taking a little

bit of time to get it back into this, but my computer didn't want to start this morning.

It's amazing.

You take a few days off, stuff yourself full of turkey, and now nothing works.

Yep.

Is Thanksgiving definitely something that you guys have figured out?

Yeah.

I mean, look, I've been here seven years now.

I think-

Maybe more than that, right?

More than seven.

2018, I arrived.

2018, I got off the boat.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

No, no.

I mean, Thanksgiving's lovely, actually.

It's a really nice American tradition, which we didn't celebrate in the UK, which we really

embraced here.

So yeah, we had a nice little week in Mammoth as a family of four.

So it was good.

Lots of overeating, but a bit of skiing to offset it as well.

So it was good.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I stayed in town and met up with some friends, but looking forward to a couple of little

road trips in December, probably Arizona and possibly Vegas again, although I was just

there for the SEMA show.

And starting to think about what would be a good vehicle or good vehicles to take, but

you just...

I'm sorry.

Sorry.

It's not happening this morning.

Should I keep speaking?

If you're not watching on YouTube, Matt's having a bit of a cough and fever.

Are you all right there, buddy?

Yes.

You're good?

I survived.

My eyes are watering now, but I survived.

You just came back from your road trip with the family, and I want to talk about what

you guys drove so I can kind of figure out what it is that I should be taking on my road

trips.

Yeah.

Well, the Northern California where it is, I mean, Mammoth is for American geography

is sort of up near San Francisco, but obviously inland and in the mountains, proper ski resort.

We took...

We're very privileged to have the Edmunds fleet to call upon, and we took the Lexus

GX, which is the over-trail version, has the big off-road tires, and actually we thought

it was perfect for the job in as much that there'd been a dump of snow.

We didn't know whether it was going to snow a bit more.

So the ideal car, really massive trunk, throw everything in, fit for purpose.

And also like the fact that it's quite utilitarian, the rubber mats, everything else.

When you're going properly outdoors, you're throwing wet ski kit in, it is fit for purpose.

It's like reminds me of what a Land Rover Defender in some ways used to be, kind of

still is, but also kind of what it was in its original form.

But, and I think this is probably what I'm talking about, there are a couple of things

about it which irritate me and seem really kind of odd as part of the way it's been put

together.

Okay.

But firstly, I mean, the fuel consumption is bad.

And I mean, typically getting mid-teens, and it seems that it doesn't matter whether you're

cruising it around LA or whether you're taking it up the highway, you're getting somewhere

in the teens.

V6 engine doesn't have the hybrid that you get in the Land Cruiser.

Combine that with off-road tires, big heavy vehicle, body-on-frame vehicle.

So it's not surprising you don't get great fuel consumption.

But the problem is it also has a pretty small tank, 21 gallons.

So on paper, 15 times 21 gets you just over 300.

But in the manner of an electric car, you never quite go to zero.

So realistically, you're filling up every 250 miles.

So on a journey like Mammoth, it means that you fill up at the beginning, and you're going

to have to stop again before you get there.

Now, okay, it's a bit of a first world problem, but I mean, obviously, it's a lot of money

in fuel.

And you might say, well, this is an 80 grand vehicle, if you can afford 80 grand, you can

afford the fuel.

Okay, but, you know, still a lot of money.

But then the fact that, you know, you're just constantly fighting the range, it made

me laugh actually.

I was driving through LA to get up to the highway, and there's a big Toyota advert at

the moment for the Camry, which of course is a hybrid, and it's saying like 600-mile

range, and that's the big sell.

And I was like, yeah, I'm literally sitting in a Toyota, which does barely 250 miles of

realistic range.

So that was the first thing that's kind of an imitation.

The rear legroom, my six-and-a-half-year-old jumped in and had her booster seat in and

started complaining about legroom, which is crazy in a vehicle that's this big.

But the wheelbase is actually relatively small, and the rear legroom relative to the size

of the vehicle is not that great.

Massive trunk, rear legroom.

So if you're buying it with teenage kids and you're tall yourself, that's a challenge.

And then the third thing, now this really is a first world problem, but made me think

a lot while I was over there and driving back about like manufacturers that just kind

of get their product, little bits and pieces of their product that cause massive irritation.

When I was up there, they were selling off some of last year's demo skis for pretty much

no money.

So I bought some.

I was very excited about my bargain.

This is a car, there were loads of GXs up in Mammoth.

It's a great skiing car, apart from the fact it doesn't have a ski hatch.

So if you've got your kids in the back, you then have to start like putting the skis over

the top or trying to get a roof rack and other thing.

That is like a classic skiing car.

Lots of people in America ski.

Why when you specify, do you not have the ski hatch?

You know what I mean?

The little hatch in the back of the, in the rear seats, which let's face it.

And often it would have like the bag.

So like if you're, that way you don't get your car dirty.

Like the ones in the trunk would like have the ski port, you know, like you're talking

about.

And then have, it would turn into like a, like a waterproof bag so you can put your

skis, go through the back seat and not get everybody wet.

Oh, that's it.

I haven't, I haven't seen that.

I actually haven't seen it.

That's, that's particularly offensive.

Even if you don't have that, even if you put you in your own ski back to have, you know,

to have something where you can sort of slide the skis through the hatch and then build

around it.

You would think in a vehicle like you're up there in Mammoth, there's, I must've seen

like 20 other GXs and I'm sure in ski resorts dotted around the U S there's hundreds of

these things, thousands.

So it's like, so it's like, why, when you're planning out this vehicle, do you not think

about that?

Why do you not put that in?

Because then, you know, you're starting to say, well, I've got to buy a roof rack.

So my fuel consumption is going to get even worse or I've got to do this or I've got to

do that.

And it just made me think about like little things in vehicles that drive you nuts because

overall the GX is a great car.

It feels beautifully built, quality's good.

I like the utilitarian aesthetic.

I think it's a, it's a really cool thing.

And imagine myself buying them.

It's just these little details about it that, that let it down.

You know, we, we had this conversation a couple of months ago as well.

But with the Land Cruiser, I took the Land Cruiser to Monterey car week and you know,

we loaded it up with a few people and we took it up there and now that is the hybrid, but

the hybrid is supposed to get better gas mileage.

But the trade-off is now you got the 17.9 gallon fuel tank because you need space for

the battery.

And the trade-off wasn't quite there.

First of all, the floor in the trunk is raised up higher because of the battery.

So when you're standing there, you're like, it looks like a big trunk, but you realize

like the, like the floor is very tall, you know?

So it's a, it's actually a little tough to like get stuff in and out of if you're, if

you're short, if you know, if you're, I don't know, kids or whatever.

And then, yeah, I, I forgot what it took, however many miles, 300 miles or something

to get to Monterey.

And I was like, oh, we can't do it on a single tank with the battery charge.

Like we're not going to, we're not going to make it there in one, in one run.

And again, it was under 300 miles.

We couldn't get it done.

And even the hybrid version of the Lexus GS, which is the Land Cruiser, not that much better

as far as gas mileage, especially on the freeway.

Right.

Like you just can't do it.

So yeah, not, not necessarily the best for a road trip vehicle like you're talking about.

Yeah.

It's the Land Cruiser is supposed to, I mean, basically the same as the GX, but the Toyota

version, similar money.

And it's kind of interesting.

They sort of peppered the market with these two.

I think people, wherever I'm where I live, there's quite a lot of GXs because I think

it has that kind of sort of alpha aesthetic and the Land Cruiser doesn't, doesn't quite

by comparison.

It looks a bit Joe Strad was like the Stallone movie, Joe Strad, it has that kind of, that

sort of futuristic vibe about it.

I think it's a, I think it's a great looking thing.

I like the interior quality is great.

There's so much to like about it.

It's just these little niggles that, that are kind of a, you know, I was, I was talking

to a friend, a friend of ours, Brad Fanshawe that has a bond speed wheels.

And I do a podcast with, and he was, you know, he was genuinely curious.

He's like, I need a new vehicle and it needs to be large enough to carry gear, to carry

wheels.

So I go back and forth to the factory.

He's like, what'd you think of the Land Cruiser?

And I was like, I thought it was great to drive.

I just don't think it's going to get you the range.

And I know he does these trips like to Arizona and stuff.

And I was just like, it's just not going to be what you want for that, for that trip.

Just driving through, you know, and he's like, yeah, I guess, you know, he's like a

little disappointed to kind of hear that.

The other thing we had a lot of debate in the office and, and Jody who works for me

is like a big, not a fan of the ride quality because his body on frame and it has this,

it feels a little bit rugged in that way.

And that is the right cause.

It's not terrible.

It's not jarring or anything, but you definitely, it's not an SUV like a Mercedes GLE or something

like that.

You sort of feel the terrain.

And again, there's a, I think there's a psychology attached to it that the fact that it does

that and then it definitely feels like an adventure vehicle, not a luxury SUV for me

is like a double edged sword because there is something about that feel of vehicle that

makes you feel every time you go to whole food that you're like off an adventure.

It's kind of catchy to objectively the ride quality is not as good as a luxury SUV body

on frame.

It doesn't have that, doesn't have that control.

But there's also something kind of perversely that I find quite exciting about that because

I've been lucky enough to do quite a lot of off-road adventures and stuff, but it gives

me that feeling of, you know, endeavor, you know, a luxury SUV doesn't.

So I, one of my neighbors actually just bought a GX and he stopped me yesterday and cause

I have always different cars outside the house and the neighborhood, they always come and

ask me what I think of various stuff and he has a, he has a house in Mammoth and it actually

been up there.

It's a Rivian R1S and still does.

And he's just bought a Lexus GX, obviously doing pretty well for himself.

And I said, I said, I said, so you got the Rivian and now you've got a Lexus as well.

And he said, look, I've been driving EVs for 10 years.

I started with a Nissan LEAF.

They just got rid of the, I can no longer go in the carpool lane with them.

That's going, that's good.

It's going.

And he said, the infrastructure is not there.

So I don't want to take the Rivian to Mammoth because then I've got to charge it halfway

and then I've got to charge it when I get there and I've got all that stress and everything

else.

So I bought a GX.

I just thought that's kind of really interesting.

So he's now got an R1S, which is, which is all right, a three row, but sort of a similar

vehicle to a GX.

So he's got two kind of identical vehicles.

And there was a funny thing on Instagram I saw about, about ski week in February.

And it was just talking about the fact that all the Rivians get parked.

Everybody goes off in their RAV4 or something like that, their second car.

Yeah.

And nobody wants to, nobody wants to deal with it.

It's, it's, it's a really funny dynamic.

But your neighbor, like that's it, that's an interesting example of the person that's

buying the GX and he's literally buying it for the road trip.

He's taking it out.

So it is the guy that would use this, you know, the, the ski port through the seats

and whatever, like, you know, would use the things that you're talking about where some

of the flaws are there.

He would want longer range, even if he's not worried about fuel mileage, because he can

afford it.

But the, the hassle of stopping and fueling more often and yeah, some of the issues with,

you know, having to have like roof racks or some sort of gear, you know, attached to the

vehicle to, to bring the stuff.

He's literally using it for exactly what you were talking about.

And despite all those flaws, I guess decided still to get it, or maybe just hasn't figured

out, you know, you saw it, thought it was cool.

It was a step up from the Land Cruiser and said, I'll just get the GX.

And, uh, and then didn't realize what you're in for, it's a great vehicle, but it's still

a great vehicle.

And like, you know, you just buy a roof rack and you've solved the problem with the skis

and bother all the rest of it.

But it reminded me a little bit, we were talking on the show last week about the LA auto show.

I'd spent time with one of Nissan's marketing executives and, you know, conversations like,

how do you get like the cost of the cars down and how do you, you know, how do you still

make a profit selling cars at like 20 odd thousand bucks or whatever.

And, well, you know, Nissan has been well documented, has been desperately struggling

and said, well, one of the challenges is like, we, we got to build cars that meet the needs

of the consumer that we don't just like load on all these functions that we don't need

that they don't need, but exclude stuff that they want.

And it sounds super simple, but the number of cars you get into and you just go like,

you know, the product planning hasn't already, you know, all these manufacturers have armies

of people called product planners who in each market basically go through a vehicle and

say, right, we need, you know, Americans need a big cup holder so that for the American

market, we need like a big gulp cup holder and that's a given.

And then they basically, then the UK person will say, well, in the UK, you know, the roads

are very wide.

We need this.

And then in Germany, blah, blah, blah.

And so it goes on and then they all kind of, you know, go to the mother country, you know,

what country where it's being made or the ultimate decision makers.

And it's, it comes as a big sort of debating point.

And that's why you get different setups in America to Europe and everything else.

And everybody's saying, well, I need this functionality, not this functionality.

So all of this goes on in the background, but you definitely get into vehicles where

you think either they've just got it wrong or they've like lost the argument and now

they haven't got what they need.

You know, there's a, it gets passed off in marketing speak.

They're like when they start giving you like too many touchscreens and these features that

nobody asked for.

It gets sold to you as this is the future of the automobile, right?

It's going to do this.

It's going to self drive.

And there's going to be hand gestures.

You're going to wave in front of a screen and it's going to raise the volume of it.

Like stuff nobody asked for.

Well, that was the interviews, wasn't it?

Yeah.

Right.

Where you do like a little wavy finger thing.

Yeah.

Right.

So things you never asked for.

But it gets sold to you as this is the future of the automobile, right?

But where the automobile companies do the opposite is actually in the truck world.

Like Ram and Silverado and Ford F-150, their whole thing, every media thing we ever go

on to, they're like, we listen to the customer.

We listen to the customer.

You want big buttons on the outside so you can wear your gloves and tap your code in

to unlock your car.

You want, you know, you want grippy handles and you want the step that comes off the bumper

and you want the tailgate that flops in three different directions, you know, goes down,

goes to the side.

It's all when in the truck world, it's like we listen to you, we listen to you.

But every other car in the lineup, it's like we didn't listen to any of you.

This is what you're going to do.

You're going to flop your hands around and it's going to change the radio station.

You're right.

Tricks.

You're absolutely right.

I hadn't thought about that before.

The truck world is kind of where the clever thing is that, you know, like the tailgate

goes down and then you've got, you know, you've got the measuring sticks or in the

RAM.

I think you open the center console and then there's all that kind of conversion stuff

that goes on in there and, you know, little coin houses, just a lot.

Yeah, there is a lot of stuff because I, or Ford has like the fold out table and things

like that.

So you can have your, you know, you can do your laptop or eat your tacos or whatever

it may be.

And I think you're right.

The truck world is one area of the market where they properly listen to consumers and

try and outdo each other with stuff that's actually genuinely useful.

And to be fair, they sell a lot of trucks.

So maybe a little bit more listening to the customer and a little less twirling your finger

in the BMW to raise the volume.

I think it's the twirling your finger in the BMW.

So I think it's one of those things where you think this is never going to happen again.

Or, I mean, Volkswagen has been hammered for like the haptic controls and Mercedes is just

as bad.

I like the touch sensitive controls.

So you just sort of, you know, you slide your finger along a pretty nasty feeling piece

of plastic to turn the volume up.

And yeah, again, it's just, it's one of those things, you know, like, why did this, why

did this get through?

Who, who, you know, did somebody just say like, I'm the boss and this is happening.

And everybody said, oh, I better shut up.

But I don't know.

There's a lot of weird stuff that gets through that you think this is, this is madness.

And then other things like ski hatches where you think this is like the perfect skiing

vehicle.

So why is the ski hatch?

This is one of these examples that came up.

I'm going to have to show this to you guys on the, on the screen here.

For a long time, Tesla, it's like Tesla, you got to touch the screen, you got to do all

this stuff and you can't use the turn signals and that are, maybe now they're just bringing

back the turn signal stalk.

Yeah, well, that's it.

That's a good, I mean, actually, that's a great, I need to just show you one here, but

that's a great example that Tesla did actually say when I went down to the Gigafactory.

We did listen.

Everybody hates the buttons for the, for the indicator that, you know, the, the stalk is

back.

And that was a good example of, and you know, like Honda brought back the volume control

because everybody squeaked about the fact that they, you know, it's now really hard

to adjust the volume.

But yeah, when the, when the aftermarket has to solve for stuff, that's a, that's a bad

moment.

This is a genius little thing.

We're looking at this picture here.

It's a, it's the bottom of a Tesla screen and there's this button bar.

There's an aftermarket company for about 200 bucks.

This double stick tapes onto the bottom of your screen.

And I guess it's using Bluetooth or some sort of app or whatever, and it, and it grew,

it gave an actual buttons and turning knobs for, for like AC controls and temperature

and fan, uh, AC fan and unlocking the doors and stuff, just like things you just want

on a regular basis.

Fairly inexpensive.

It looks pretty good.

They gave it a good look to where I am curious.

I haven't read the piece, Matt.

Like how does it, how does it work?

Because there is no, I mean, is it Bluetooth?

Is it, um, I think it was, I think it was, how does it actually, how does it actually

sort of tap into the, to, to the functionalities using like the app?

I don't know.

How is it?

Or is it, is it basic?

Cause you can do those things through the app on your phone.

There's a way to like program the things through the app on your phone.

So this be becomes just a button controller for the app.

Oh, it becomes like a control bracing.

Okay.

Now I, now, now I get it.

There's a lot of clever people.

I'm not so right on this stuff.

Yeah.

So it goes through Bluetooth and then you're right.

It just kind of controls the apps so you can like fold the mirrors in and out.

And then I, so here it says that there's a, it plugs into the OBD port, right?

Right.

So yeah.

Unless it's super smart and they, you know, they sell it for 200 bucks, 207 bucks.

I love, I love the, I love the, and I just love the fact that it's called the control

bridge.

This is rubbish.

What we need is a, you know, and then actually having the, the peace of mind, the time and

the capital to go out and build something like that and sell it for 200 bucks.

I mean, yeah, I don't know like how many, maybe we should get them on cause I'm just

intrigued.

Like I think about it and think like how much effort has gone.

Okay.

We've got a problem here.

People don't like the touch screen.

So now I'm going to build a little thing.

I'm going to engineer it.

I'm going to make it.

I'm going to market it.

I'm going to sell it for 200 bucks.

Like, I don't know, I'm, I'm amazed at some of the business models.

You know, I, I, in my, in my older truck, my 95 F one 50, I have, um, my entertainment

system is, is from Alpine, you know, been around forever after market radio company

and it's a touch screen.

Um, but it has like on the touch screen, the volume controls on it and they're a pain in

the butt.

I hit it all the time.

The volume doesn't do anything.

They're just kind of flat buttons.

There's no knob.

Yeah.

And I'm bouncing around all the time and I'm in, you know, and, uh, soon after that was

released, they came out with a giant knob that is Bluetooth and has like a double stick

tape, you know, like pad on the back and you can mount it on the backside.

Like it has this tab, like, like a finger that sticks out on the backside of your touchscreen

or you can put it like on your dash or center console or your steering wheel or whatever.

But they were like, nobody likes our volume control.

We need a knob.

We don't want to reinvent this thing.

So we're just going to sell you an extra Bluetooth knob that you can turn.

So again, they had to solve the problem that nobody was asking for was flat.

Nobody ever says, I want flat buttons with no tactile feel that you're like on the screen.

You're like, nobody wants that.

So, um, yeah, that's another example.

But anyway, I thought I saw that Tesla, like little control bar, if you will, like the

bottom of like the control bar, the bottom of your Mac.

But it was basically, it is fun that you can do this now with, with software.

I mean, my Genesis GV60, my wife's car that didn't have wireless carplay.

And then they came out with an app in the, in the system and suddenly like it was there

and it's like, Oh, now we've got it.

Um, and it was free and all of a sudden there's some really, there is some cool stuff with

the software.

And then the other thing about the software is, Oh God, we made a mistake and we can now

like do it with an over the air update.

Whereas, you know, ski hatches and things like that is a little bit harder to get a

hacksaw to the rear view.

You see to something.

I mean, the idea of over the air updates, when that started happening, everyone was

like, yeah, big brother's watching me and you know, I don't want you tracking me and

doing all this stuff.

And then at the end of the day, I'm like, over the air updates is a genius idea.

Um, I, I really don't care if Ford knows where I'm driving or if it's tracking, like, I don't

even know what it is tracking.

I don't know.

I really don't care.

But uh, the updates and stuff that have been sent over, like if you think about, you know,

you guys mentioned lucid and uh, even my Ford lightning, like all of these vehicles have

gotten so many significant updates that have been useful and hopefully it's because of

feedback from, from customers going, you know, not just what's broken, but you think about

like your phone, it, by the way, like if my truck is tracking where I am, what difference

is that?

I have the phone in my pocket every time I'm driving the truck anyway.

Like we years ago, we don't use it anymore because we were generally on an app, Apple

in my household.

But yeah, we, we had, um, uh, we had, what's got Alexa, Alexa, Alexa, Alexa's listen to

everything.

I was like, yeah.

So is your, so is your phone.

So is your iPad.

So is, you know, like, I don't know.

I also like, I don't, what am I doing that?

So I can't think of anything tickling my life that is significant enough value that I care

too much.

Yeah.

That's what I think.

Like, where do I go or what do I do that?

I don't know.

My life's too boring, but I don't feel like I do or my now it's just like, if I have like

an idea or if I see something and I know if I say it out loud enough, I'll like get an

ad for it eventually or like when I, on, on like Instagram or something, you know, I'm

just like, you know, I like, I'll just be walking around going, you know, I, Vegas sounds

like a pretty good idea this time of year.

Maybe take a holiday break to Vegas.

It's not bad.

Las Vegas, Las Vegas.

Now, if I say it enough where I live in my apartment and near my phone, I'll start getting

all the ads for like, we now have like thousands of people that are listening to the show in

their car.

All of them are going to be served at Vegas ads because they've been that now fed those.

There you go.

And you told them that Alexa so many times that that thing's beeping.

I just heard it beep in the other room, but, uh, Oh, that's, that's true.

Yeah.

My kids are hilarious.

It's Siri.

Cause I've just programmed Siri for my voice.

It's obviously quite distinctive.

So like my kids keep shouting at the phone, Hey Siri.

And I was like, it's not going to hear you.

It's not going to hear you.

No, no.

Um, a couple of other things from the, from the LA auto show that came up, but, um, let's,

let's take a quick break and then we'll, we'll be right back.

Hey guys.

It's Matt again.

I just wanted to give a big shout out to everyone who's been coming out to our Bravago hard

seltzer tasting events and ordering online.

If you haven't tried it yet, here's what you're missing.

Bravago is lightly carbonated, stevia free and bursting with flavor.

And guess what?

It's not just great on its own.

It's a perfect mixer to throw in a splash of gin or vodka, and you've got yourself a

next level cocktail.

Find it online at drink bravago.com or at our next event.

That's drink bravago.com.

Are you scouring the web for the best black Friday and cyber Monday deals?

Stop it.

Get Rakuten.

Rakuten is a shopping sidekick that gets you cash back on gifts for everyone on your list.

Right now you can get up to 15% cash back at the stores you love.

You can even stack cash back on top of the biggest sales of the year.

That's savings on savings.

It's more time shopping and less time searching with Rakuten.

You're always saving at your favorite stores on the things you're already buying.

Cashback is automatically added to your account as you shop and you can get paid with gift

cards, PayPal or check or eligible American express card members can even choose to earn

membership rewards points instead of cash back.

It's truly a no brainer.

Now's the time to join up to 15% cash back ends on 12 two plus new members will receive

a welcome bonus after minimum qualifying purchases.

Just go to Rakuten.com download the app or install the browser extension.

That's R A K U T E N terms and conditions apply.

This episode is brought to you by progressive insurance.

You chose to hit play on this podcast today.

Smart choice.

Progressive loves to help people make smart choices.

That's why they offer a tool called auto quote explorer that allows you to compare your progressive

car insurance quote with rates from other companies.

So you save time on the research and can enjoy savings when you choose the best rate for

you.

You can buy after this episode at progressive.com progressive casualty insurance company and

affiliates not available in all states or situations.

Prices vary based on how you buy AI agents are everywhere automating tasks and making

decisions at machine speed, but agents make mistakes.

Just one rogue agent can do big damage before you even notice rubric agent cloud is the

only platform that helps you monitor agents, set guardrails and rewind mistakes.

So you can unleash agents, not risk, accelerate your AI transformation at rubric.com.

That's R U B R I K dot com.

Okay.

So before the break, before the Thanksgiving break, we talked about a little bit of a recap

of LA auto show, talked about scout, talked about the Hyundai concept.

I forgot what that thing was called.

Crater.

The crater.

That's right.

Yeah.

XRT XRT crater.

Yeah.

But what we didn't talk about was what Genesis was doing.

You did say it was sort of a simultaneous press announcement.

It was happening like in south of France and here because the cars weren't here.

Like the cool stuff wasn't in LA, but they announced it.

And that's their magma, like their high performance line that they've been talking about for a

while.

The GB 60 that you have, right.

That's a family car that you guys have.

They have the magma version, which is, I guess, kind of like the Hyundai Ioniq five and that

tech.

I would love one.

I love the Ioniq five.

And this is the Genesis version of it, which is basically, you know, like all Genesis is

slightly nicer inside, a little bit smaller actually inside, but, you know, just nicer,

nicer kit.

I think that's cool.

I think it looks really cool.

I think they've done a nice job just making it look sporty without kind of ruining the

ass.

Ruining the ass.

Yeah.

I mean, it's not going to be cheap.

Seventy five grand.

But, you know, 650 horsepower.

It's.

Yeah, I think it's cool.

I'm Genesis.

It's kind of interesting where they're going with this.

I think they realize that to be a proper luxury brand and compete with BMW, Mercedes, you need,

you know, you need a sports program.

You know, you need an empower.

You need an AMG.

You need a.

I was going to say Lexus, but I suppose even Lexus is doing it right.

They're bringing out.

And they're going racing.

They're going racing.

Genesis things, too.

Part of their big announcement is like, we're getting into motorsports.

We're going to go racing.

We're going to have a couple of different forms of that.

That's right.

And so the way they split it up is like Hyundai is like, you know, the mainstream brand.

So Hyundai is going to do rallying because that's where they, you know, they're seen.

And then Genesis is going to basically do high end world endurance championship racing.

So limo, IMSA, that kind of thing.

So high end sports prototype racing.

And that's where they're going to be.

So they're not doing Formula One, but they are going to do effectively my my world.

The next best, the next best thing, which is, you know, sports prototype racing.

Exactly this exactly the thing that Porsche is trying to pull out of at the moment because

it's too expensive and they need to save money.

Yeah.

So and this is all about giving Genesis, I think, that credibility, that cachet moving

themselves a little bit market.

So GV60 Magma is the first of it.

We're going to see we're going to see more of these things.

They get they've just launched the GT car announced that that is coming to fruition,

which is really exciting looking mid engine supercar.

So they're following like a tried and tested formula.

You know, Audi did it with the R8.

You know, we need to get into this market.

How do we establish the brand?

If you think what Audi did, they had the TT first, then they had the R8, then they went

to Le Mans and won a bunch of won it for years and years and years.

And it had now they're going into Formula One and Genesis is almost following that,

that playbook.

Let's go into racing at a high level.

Let's launch a supercar, this case, the Magma GT concept, which they are going to do in

production.

I think it looks fabulous.

And then let's have a range of performance cars act as a halo for the rest of the range

and create some noise.

And let's have a color, in this case, bright orange that kind of underpins the whole thing.

Except is McLaren going to be pissed?

Isn't orange the papaya that's kind of there?

This doesn't look like papaya.

Yeah, it's not quite papaya.

I don't know.

Yeah, I guess so.

But like, where do you go?

If you go red, it's Ferrari.

Green is Lamborghini.

Like, what do you, you know?

Yeah.

I don't know.

Where do you go?

But it looks cool.

And I think it's really, really exciting.

Again, it's like we talked about a lot on the show.

It's the Koreans leading the way.

This is a fantastic looking concept that they are saying is going to happen.

Then the GV60 Magna looks cool.

But then the weird thing about this whole unveil, they also had something called the G90.

They had a G90 wagon.

And I'm sure when they planned all this out, it was like, all right, this GT concept is

going to do this and this.

And it's going to get all this noise around the world.

And then we're going to do this wagon concept.

And now look at our Instagram.

We've got five and a half million organics, these non-paid organic views for

the wagon concept.

And about, well, it's about the top of my head.

It's about like 700,000 or something for the GT concept.

Because everybody just looked and said, this is cool.

This G90 wingback concept that just looks really cool.

And it's part, it's, it's, it's part of the Magma program.

So, but it's just not orange.

They released it in this green color, which was kind of a little confusing because the

Magma ones are like, they're doing this orange.

They're trying to get us into the orange, but they're like, but the wagon's cool.

It's probably not going to look good in orange.

So let's do it.

This, this really nice green.

It's basically a British racing green.

But yeah, what, what it basically, this is an Audi RS6.

It's a BMW M5 wagon.

It's a Mercedes AMG wagon.

And it looks really cool.

Talking to you, jumping back to it, saying I took a picture and shared it on my Weaver

On Cars Instagram of the, I saw the ultimate skiing car when I was in, it was just sort

of in the distance and it was following a Cybertruck, but it was an Audi RS6 on obviously

winter tires because it had non-standard alloys and a, and a ski box, a big roof box on top.

It just looks so cool.

It was white in the snow, massive gold light alloys for winter tires with a aerodynamic

roof box.

And I was like, that is cool.

That's really cool.

So Genesis plan is to probably make that wagon.

They're going to make the supercar, the Magma GT.

You know, we're looking at the concept version, so it'll probably be pretty close to this.

And then I, I, I think you were saying last week, you were like, Hey, are you guys going

to make the wagon?

And then he said, we can't confirm, but we're not really, we don't really do concept

cars was kind of their answer.

Although when you ask them, are you going to do the Hyundai Crater?

They're like, nah, that's, that's a concept.

No, I didn't.

The crater.

No, I think the crater is going to happen in some form.

I mean, that's a concept, but you know, we talked last week about the Ioniq 5.

Everybody went, oh, that's a concept.

And then they did it.

That wagon looks very, you know, that back wagon looks very production ready there.

You know, it looks very production ready.

And so, you know, are they going, I mean, this is a massively ambitious company.

You know, you think about what they're doing across the board from Kia to Hyundai to Genesis.

They, they basically want, want a piece of everything, you know, and now it's like,

okay, now we've got this luxury brand.

Now we need the sporting arm of that luxury brand.

We are off to go and do Lamorne.

We're going to do this.

We're going to do that.

We're going to launch a supercar.

I mean, they're just in it, aren't they?

They're, they're like, and of course, like their chief designer, Luke Donkervolk is ex

Lamborghini.

So it's, uh, you know, it's home territory for him.

It's, it's, uh, it's a, I think that it's a fascinating country, country and company

right now.

The, the whole company, um, all three brands, they have some momentum with car sales, with

financials, with revenue, where other car companies are having to scale back because

maybe they made some mistakes on, on the direction, you know, like, yeah, I don't know.

We were picking on Ram a while ago, but, you know, they're going to kill the, the battery

electric Ram truck.

Right.

So I, what's that going to cost them a billion dollars to, you know, there's a bit of a hit

there.

Some of the things that are working on it, it's possible by anything that they financed

a little bit, the company's a little bit different in how it's, um, financially set up.

So it's less beholden to that kind of short term is Wall Street mentality, you know, because

there's no question that if you're selling a Ionic five for 35 grand, you're taking a

hit on that.

I mean, that's just a, just a statement of fact, they just decided to put money against

that car.

And then, okay, we're going to sell enough Palisades and enough, you know, whatever's

over here to the fact that we're going to lose money ionics.

Now, not a lot of other people want to do that.

And if you look at what they all did during the 2008 recession, and then again, during

the pandemic, who were the big winners in that period?

It was Hyundai and Kia.

Pretty much the world over.

And the part of the reason that they won is they said, look, what happens in a, in a downturn,

people look to value, we can deliver value.

And if we back it up with a big warranty and everything else, once we get people into the

family, then we keep them, you know, we can kind of build that customer relationship and

that loyalty to, to start to build from there.

Now the challenge has been keeping getting the dealers to go on this journey as well

and make sure that, you know, if you're now selling, you know, luxury performance cars,

that everything comes, comes together.

And my experience with Genesis dealers hasn't been great, to be honest.

So, you know, there's a whole bunch of work that goes on in the, you know, goes on in

the background.

But it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a fascinating company.

It really is.

You know, how often we talk about these guys when, you know, compared to the sort of Toyotas

and I suppose we talked about it at the beginning, but, you know, it's, it's where the exciting

stuff is, is coming from much more than say Honda or something at the moment.

They definitely have a lot going on.

It's going to be interesting to see how they get into motorsports.

Motorsports can be profitable if you're, you know, listen, if you're Ferrari, right?

There's a business model there.

But yes, initially getting into motorsports just seems like a big hole to pour cash into.

I mean, well, the other part is per Ferrari, you've actually got to do well at it.

You know, Ferrari's poured a lot of money into it.

Like do very badly at the moment.

It is, it's also how like you structure it.

Because I mean, like we talked before, like Mercedes Formula One team, who I used to work

for in its previous incarnation as Honda, you know, that if you look at the structure

of that, well, Mercedes only owns a small portion of it now.

Toto also owns a bunch.

Jim Ratcliffe, who owns Ineos, owns a bunch of it.

So, you know, then you've got all the sponsorship money.

So Formula One's an interesting tech case because you get a ton of sponsorship dollar

if you do it right.

You can sell bits of your team, so you're not even having a big holding.

So the days when you just put like in 300 million and wrote it off were kind of over

because the exposure's there.

But Formula One is a unicorn in that respect.

Most of the forms of motorsport, very hard to see an ROI.

And I've looked at this a lot in my career.

There are very, very few forms of motorsport where you say, actually, this really makes

financial sense.

The World Endurance Championship, Daytona 24 hours, Le Mans, all that sort of stuff.

It's all about it's less about like who's watching the race and more about like what

you do with it afterwards.

The fact that you go into a dealership and you've got all these like cool posters of

this epic car.

And so it's more about the brand stuff than it is about everybody sitting down and watching

it and say, oh, look, the Mercedes won.

You know, I and I read something interesting recently about the Vegas F1 race got like

one point five million viewers on TV and they go, oh, it's great.

But doesn't compare by any means to like the Super Bowl or, you know, even the World

Series or whatever that I get 15, 20 million views on something.

And I go, I just think F1 is just more experiential.

I think they're just trying to get people there in so many different capacities.

From general admission tickets to the highest end, you know, million dollar packages where

there's a helicopter and it brings you to your hotel and, you know, just the things

that they can.

The extravagance of it, you know, I can is I think part of the the allure of F1, you

know, it's really that sort of exclusive club element to it.

And I think Lamont has a bit of that as well, you know, but a lot of sport doesn't.

So it's it is it's like when I used to work for like men's lifestyle, not just men's,

but general lifestyle magazines back in the day.

And the bits that I used to hate is obviously we used to do these parties and it be like,

hey, here's GQ and here's this party and here's the editor GQ at this party paid for

by X brand.

Yeah.

Hennessy or whatever.

And then you go like, hang on a minute, you're basically me as the reader of the magazine

is paying for a magazine so you can have a party to which I'm not invited, basically.

Yeah, I used to hate these pages, but they worked because everybody was like, oh, by

buying the magazine, I'm kind of there.

Yeah.

It was the weirdest, the weirdest like psychology.

And I think Formula One has a bit of that, too.

Formula One is especially like the celebrity aspect of it.

It's the event where you want to be seen.

Yeah.

You know, like Lamont.

Cool.

But if you're seen at Lamont, like the media doesn't really care.

Like this will care.

The car companies will care and go.

You must really be into motorsports because you were at Lamont.

But if you're, you know, Beyonce or Ben Affleck and you show up at F1 in Vegas, I think it's

just about whoever wanted you to be there or you needed to be seen there or whatever.

Like it's a it's a big part of that.

I didn't go this year because I went off to Mammoth the first year I was.

I heard in the media that you you skipped it this year.

It was people were going nuts.

I was not at F1.

Extraordinary.

Well, the first year I did go and I had.

Corporate access and I was wandering down the pit lane and blah, blah, blah.

And like that influencer type.

There's all these influencers taking pictures themselves.

I'm like, yeah, I got no idea when I am hopeless.

I have no idea where any of you people are.

Yeah.

And then like I took like this sort of like sort of photograph of somebody.

And I was like, look at this person like standing there doing a selfie.

And somebody said, that's X.

And they've got like 20 million followers or something.

And I was like, OK, but it is a bizarre.

That whole thing to me is utterly bizarre.

But it but it works.

It works for Formula One, which I think is unique.

IndyCar, IndyCar and NASCAR.

NASCAR has its own base.

But IndyCar, you know, is a strange is a strange beast for me because it feels a lot more kind

of grassroots.

But, you know, I listen.

After the the F1 race, Graham Rahal posted on to X.

And I love this is just perfect timing.

It's genius.

He was basically trolling F1 to get attention to IndyCar.

And it's worth it.

It was perfect.

It was great.

He was like, the race was kind of boring.

You just go there to be seen like you need more like lead changes.

You need it to be like IndyCar.

He's like, hey, F1, you should have IndyCar as your opening event to your F1 weekend.

And it just kind of blew up like media everywhere was just kind of picking up going, you know,

Graham Rahal says IndyCar is better and it should open.

I was like, you guys are doing exactly what he wanted.

So kudos to Graham.

Perfect.

You hit a home run with with the timing of it, your messaging of it.

He was complimentary of just going, listen, if you want but if you want real racing action,

you should have F1.

You should have IndyCar be there.

And IndyCar is going to have Schumacher next year, probably.

So that's kind of on his team.

He's on the Rahal team.

Yeah, so it'll be good.

All right.

I think you're good.

I think he's going to struggle, actually.

But I think it's I think it's it's a tough, tough to get into, you know, I think I think

his name will bring some eyeballs to the sport the way the way Tony Schumacher going to NHRA

brought a lot of fans, a lot of eyeballs to the sport.

And I think that's good overall.

And it turns out that, you know, he did it the right way and kind of worked his way up

and is actually a very good driver is a good racer.

But Tony Stewart's done so many different things and from sprint cars and dirt tracks

and all this stuff that it was I wouldn't I don't think he would say it was a natural

progression for him because the first time he got into it, he's like, this is nuts.

I don't like this is a crazy.

But overall, it's adding to it.

So if Schumacher can go.

Be competitive and and cordial with the others that are out there.

I think it can bring some eyeballs to the I think people and I think I think all of

that will be all of that will be will be true.

But I know the oval stuff is for any European getting into the oval stuff is is is a challenge.

I talked to one driver who was immensely successful in the UK and he said he got on an

oval and it just scared the hell out of him.

He was in a tin top.

He was not even in a single seater.

And he just said, I don't mind admitting to you like unless you've grown up on that culture.

And I'm going to Fontana in a GT 500.

I think when I first arrived in America and being on the oval, I was like, well, I nearly

understeered off into the wall and like my first I didn't realize like the radius tightened.

I thought it was just a genuine oval.

Yeah, there's a lot of like nuances that that I don't fancy.

I'll be honest with you.

I've raced quite a bit in Europe and I've done some circuits over here, but I don't

I don't fancy the oval stuff.

We've had several of the IndyCar drivers on.

And Simon Paginot, especially, has been on and talking about the difficulties.

You know, he's an Indy 500 winner.

And and I think if you still ask him now, he'll be like, oh, I like doing the road

courses.

Put me in Laguna Seca any day.

It's like, yeah, but just very you're right.

Very different and difficult in that respect.

I remember talking to Mark Blundell, who people might remember a long time ago, went from

Formula One to IndyCar.

And he was talking about these little air pockets that you sit in.

And then you get like an India sitting in these little air pockets, your car's like

floating around.

And he said, like, you just never get that in any other form of motorsport.

So, you know, you don't feel like you're quite in control.

And, you know, he hit the wall hard a couple of times and smashed himself up a bit.

So, yeah, he could he could speak from experience.

But we kind of got off topic here.

We were talking about Genesis going racing, but I don't know, like the marketing people,

everybody, everybody does it right.

So you've got to believe that everybody does the analysis and says this makes sense.

This works.

But you still look at some of it and go, is this accurate?

Accura's done IMSA and racing for years.

Does it does it sell more accurate?

I mean, they would argue they would argue that it does.

I mean, they must do the analysis.

Right.

But just on the outside, you look at it and go, yeah, people buying somebody buying an

MDX doing it because they, you know, they've raced at Daytona.

I don't know.

I mean, for for Acura, it's it's a little I don't know, it's a little different because

Honda Racing is a big program.

And and like we're talking about IndyCar, they're one of the two engine providers.

And then where they place the Acura brand just has to do with sort of the the audience

of that type of race.

Yeah, they're going up against Genesis now.

So that that's Genesis have looked at it and gone.

Audi had massive success with this.

Porsche's had success with this.

Acura's in this game.

Therefore, we got to be there, too.

Ferrari's obviously Ferrari won Le Mans this year.

Ferrari's there, too.

And, you know, the irony is Ferrari sports car program has been way better than the F1

program this year.

But all right.

So turning the page, I want to talk about the Porsche Cayenne EV.

Yes.

The Macan EV, I don't I don't know, for lack of a better term, they didn't nail it.

Right.

Like, no, very expensive.

Wasn't that great?

It is.

Yeah.

Is expensive.

Like to me, it's like it's already done, like they missed the mark.

They have to come up with something else.

So I don't want to say that it's dead, but it's there.

It still sells.

I don't.

Do you guys have one?

Do you own one?

We're just selling.

We're just selling the Macan, actually.

For me, the problem with the Macan is that they knew the Cayenne was coming.

So there's no reason for the Macan to be I don't get the Macan.

I think it's a strange.

It's a strange vehicle.

I was super excited when we bought one, and there are bits of it that's really nice.

It drives really well.

The quality is good.

There's lots of things that I like about it.

Don't get me wrong.

But a lot of fundamentals.

We were talking at the beginning of the show about like lots of little nuances that annoy

you, but there's some fundamentals in the Macan.

I just don't think it's big enough, particularly inside.

Yeah.

And when you think that Ionic five, which is also a two motor electric SUV, has way,

way, way more space inside than the Macan does.

And it's like, well, and I said, well, why is it so small?

And I just don't get why is the rear quarter so small?

And it's like, well, the other gas Macan's also small.

Yeah, but you don't need to be this small.

Like, you know, there are other examples of brands that very successfully build electric

SUVs with loads of room inside.

And part of the thing is, well, well, the Cayenne's coming.

So, you know, if you built the Macan to be big inside, then why would you buy the Cayenne?

So it's like, well, OK, the Macan's a bit small.

If you just buy the Cayenne and we're done.

But the Macan starting at, what, 110, is that right?

110, I think 160.

If I remember correctly for the for the turbo version, then there'll be lots of other examples

slotted in between.

But, you know, this and also it's a Porsche, so you're going to have to add options to

that.

So let's say that you're going to be paying like 120 plus for the standard car and then,

you know, pick your number for the turbo.

And again, it's like, OK, so awful lot of money.

So here's Cayenne, here's Porsche Cayenne.

Yeah, right.

And we got what the base model, we got the turbo model.

It's an insane amount of power, slot everything in in between.

And, you know, the turbo's got the turbo is basically picking on the Taycan Turbo GT.

So it's got like 11, 1100.

So the base is 435 horsepower, 615 pound feet of torque.

And then it's probably fine.

Honestly, I haven't driven it yet, but like on paper, I mean, that's fine.

Porsche claims 060 in 4.5 seconds.

That's already incredibly fast.

Yeah, turbo over underestimate.

The turbo jumps to 1139 horsepower, 1106 pound feet of torque.

Yeah, I'm a bit 0 to 60 in 2.4 seconds.

And they claim in under 10 and 9.9.

Yeah, it's a nine second.

Barely, but a nine second SUV is a quarter mile.

I mean, OK, but does this solve the McCann problem?

Is it?

I'm sure it does.

If you look at the wheelbase, it's bigger than the gas car.

I mean, the McCann's already like a good sized vehicle inside.

This is going to have more room inside.

It's got a bit longer wheelbase.

It's a little bit bigger than the gas Cayenne, but not by much.

So this is throwing in all the latest tech, right?

Like the most efficient battery, the longest range,

whatever they have, the fastest to charge, all of that.

There's a lot of stuff.

And they're saying like the initial take on this car is a lot of initial interest.

I mean, there was for the Taycan.

I think the challenge with these things is what does it look like in a year or two's

time when those early adopters have got it?

There's a lot of interesting stuff in this car.

It should charge because it's got this like what they call a conductive charging,

where basically you put a pad on your garage floor and then you can drive over it.

A bit like your iPhone when you throw it onto a charging pad.

Which again, nice idea.

Is it going to change the market dramatically?

I mean, saves the hassle of plugging it in at night.

But honestly, that's a relatively modest thing.

It's inductive charging.

It's a nice idea.

It'll probably catch on, especially if you put it on your garage floor,

drive over it, car charges automatically.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

But again, is that like a singular reason to buy this?

It's going to be interesting to see how this car is doing in a year's time.

And also what the residual values look like.

Because the residual values on the Taycan are pretty terrible.

Residual values on big Audi electric SUVs, pretty terrible.

My recommendation would be if you like this, you want to try this,

you're excited about it, probably lease it.

I think that's how they will be leased.

But I mean, that's what we've been saying about EVs for a while now.

But then if they put in the lease, the problem with leasing it is like,

what are they actually, what are they going to fix the lease cost out?

And this comes back to the whole equation.

Because if they reckon, if you look at a Taycan, you say,

OK, well, the residuals are going to be really bad.

You know, the residuals are not really good on this car.

Therefore, we have to build the fact that the residuals are not going to be on the lease.

That means the lease becomes really expensive.

Or you say, well, people aren't going to spend two grand a month on a lease.

Therefore, we need to factor in, you know, somehow we need to support it with money.

And this is the problem that everybody's facing.

The maths just don't work out.

You know, Porsche historically has always had great residual values,

particularly on its sports cars, less so on its Cayenne, actually.

The Macan has always had good residuals, the Cayenne less so.

So if you take all that, you know, you're saying, OK, but then maybe also, Matt,

we go full circle to my friend across the road who's just bought his Lexus GX.

Yeah. And you're going to go, OK, so I'm going to spend 20 grand more for the electric version.

It's got a bit more room inside.

It's the latest technology.

It's kind of cool.

20 grand more than the base gas one.

OK, then I've got the can I take it skiing?

Well, I could take it skiing, but it's going to be a bit of a stress,

particularly in the snow.

And it gets cold.

The range goes down and it's 20 grand more.

Should I do that?

Or I don't know what's what's residual is going to be, you know,

and it's just like and it's also that I'll buy the right.

I'll buy the gas one.

Your point about comparing it to the Macan is,

you know, in we're looking at the Edmunds website is.

Two inches longer than the gas engine vehicle,

the wheelbase itself, five inches longer because you can push them out further.

You don't have that engine, you know, the gas engine in the front.

So more, more room, more capacity, more luggage, you know, room all around

because they're taking advantage of not having that big gas engine in there.

Right.

So you can.

Yeah.

And that's that's what's weird about the Macan,

because the Macan has those advantages, too.

But it doesn't really capitalize on them.

They just didn't do it.

Porsche's got this weird thing where they're like,

we can't have the Macan be better than a Cayenne.

Like we can't have a Boxster be better than a 911.

And like in theory, we could probably get it there, you know, to be better.

You know, let's get better balance.

It's got, you know, whatever.

We just we just need to reel it in a little

until we can figure out how to make the, you know, the bigger version better.

Yeah.

I mean, it's also striking that everybody else is getting,

you know, Range Rover EV is delayed.

You know, there's a lot of people delaying, you know, what are its rivals?

Well, really, you're probably looking at lucid gravity.

I don't know whether Rivian is a bit of a different car.

It's more of an adventure vehicle.

Maybe there's some crossover in that.

It's kind of rich, rich EV adopters that are buying it.

But probably something like the lucid is an obvious rival.

But the lucid is a lot cheaper.

I mean, the lucid is like 80, 100 grand and pretty well specified.

And yeah, it's not a Porsche.

And there's some bill quality concerns and stuff.

And it's but, you know, there's what you think.

What else?

What else is there in that Cayenne market?

There's not there's not a lot out there for that big electric SUV.

And and that market will buy it because they want.

Look, they want the most expensive one.

Like, do you buy a $200,000 Range Rover EV when it comes out?

Because it's the most expensive one.

Maybe I think people will.

But I think people will buy it if they've got multi multiple cars.

I think that's why, you know, but I think.

And I, you know, the coastal areas, you know, when you've got multiple cars and this is your

you know, this is your go to work car, blah, blah, blah.

It's it makes sense then.

But I think it's a multi car solution for the for all the reasons that we've talked about.

I think a full size Range Rover EV would.

Would win the category if it had a range extender,

if they're doing like what scouts doing with a small

gas motor, not not a V6 under the hood like what Ram's doing.

But if they can figure out a small gas engine of some sort, you know, quiet,

you know, generator, if you will, to to give it a little bit more

range just to charging the battery.

I'm not saying it needs to have it like the Ram truck so it can tow,

you know, 15000 pounds or whatever, but just something for that road trip to go.

But then they've got but then their argument is, well, we got to we got to

plug in hybrid with 50 miles of range anyway.

So that that does that job.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm with you.

I'm with you, Matt.

And the problem then is like you're in from an engineering perspective.

Where do you put the engine?

You know, you've got to you've got to start with the you've either got a

massive vehicle, we've got room to play, or you've got to start with this premise

that this is what we're going to do.

I think electric Range Rover will.

I've driven the prototype.

I think it's it's a really nice thing.

And again, I think, you know, a lot of Range Rover customers have several.

Yeah.

So I think it's that probably.

If it comes in with some specs similar to the Lucid, if it can do 400 miles of

range, you know, but because it's also going to be twice the price of the

Lucid, that's the that's the other thing.

The Range Rover is going to be 200 grand.

This Porsche's, you know, the transaction price can be 130, probably for the

standard car, 120, 130, you know, pushing 200 if you really option up the turbo.

So it's.

Yeah, I don't know.

It'll be really interesting to see where this lands in two years time as we start

to see the first cars come on the used market.

You know, what is that?

You know, is it going to be like the Taycan where you get this initial

burst of enthusiasm?

I mean, you forget that when the Taycan came out, demand went through this

through the roof, was nearly outselling the 911.

Everybody thought it was a great product.

And now, you know, they're pretty cheap to pick up on the used market.

And everybody's very kind of cynical about them.

It's it changes really fast.

If you if you if Porsche is successful with a Cayenne EV, and I imagine they

will be for their EV products.

Do you need a Taycan anymore?

It's just like is Taycan selling well enough to keep it going or.

Well, I think they learned a lot and they're going to do the Boxster and the

Cayman EV.

Yeah, I don't know.

It's an interesting it's a lot of EVs in the Porsche lineup that I don't know

this is a big bet.

Right.

And this is why they're in trouble, because it was like the world's going to

turn EV and everything is going to be EV.

And then particularly in America, it's like, oh, actually, it's not, you know,

in these car companies, they launch an SUV because they want the added sales.

So, you know, McLaren has talked about their SUV, but Lotus did it.

They said, we're going to do EV and SUV.

And I don't think anybody bought one of those.

No, well, that's also even a different Lotus.

Well, they're built in China, so they've got the whole tariff problem.

But even in the UK, like they did a new budget last week and now they're

introducing because the biggest problem the government had was, oh, hang on a

minute, you've taken away all the tax revenue from the fuel and the fuel tax

in the UK is way higher than the US.

We complain in California, nothing compared to the UK.

So now they've got hang on a minute.

We've now sourced all these billions of dollars in fuel tax because everybody's

buying EVs.

Yeah, this is this is suboptimal.

So what they've done is say, right, we're going to charge you three three

pence, which is what, five, four cents, four cents a mile for driving an EV.

And and then it's like, well, how does that work?

Oh, well, we do it when you do the MOT, which is every if you had a vehicle

three years, it's like having a smog test.

But they go in and check the vehicles like roadworthy still.

It's like, well, I mean, if it's new, how do you do it?

So they haven't even figured out how they're going to do this.

So you're going to you're going to estimate your mileage.

And then at some point in the future, they're going to check the mileage and

then give you a rebate.

I mean, it sounds unbelievably complicated.

But basically, now, if you buy an EV for four cents a mile for the privilege of

driving an EV.

So they promoted EVs for so long as an environmental solution.

And like, oh, God, we got no tax money.

So like the world over, everybody's tripping themselves up.

It's a right mess.

I California wants to do it on all cars.

California wants to charge you for the miles you drive your car.

And just basically every year when you renew your registration, you have to

prove miles or claim miles.

And they're going to charge you.

It's going to be, I guess, I don't know if it's going to be baked into the

registration, which is already pretty expensive.

You're going to get a new you're going to get a new F-150.

You're going to get $1,100 registration fee.

And then they're going to go.

And also, you've, you know, you've used it.

You've used it, you know, and we're going to charge you more money for that.

I mean, some of me like philosophically, I don't mind the idea of

paying for use because if you're somebody who only drives a thousand miles a year,

why are you paying the same for road tax or whatever?

Then then the person who drives 20,000 miles, because you're just

not using the facility in a way.

But and in some ways, fuel duty is like that, right?

You drive 50,000 miles.

You spend X amount in fuel, and therefore you're paying a lot more tax.

It's just like when they want it every which way it gets difficult.

Yeah, it gets difficult.

And and it always comes up as we're charging you extra for this mileage now,

because that's ultimately what they want is the more money.

Never do they go.

You get $1,100 registration bill in the mail.

But if you've only driven it 2,200 miles, we're only going to charge you $600 registration.

It's never that.

It's always like we'll just charge you less extra.

Well, it's the only also the correlation between.

We're going to take this money off you and what you're getting.

Yeah, so it's not like I'm going to take a thousand bucks off you and I'm going to give

you a new TV.

It's I'm going to take a thousand bucks off you and.

Hypothetically, something will happen with the roads or a network or a railway or something.

And it's just it's governments.

I don't want to get political, but governments are particularly bad at spending money.

In my opinion, the way I think that's one thing we could all agree on.

They are terrible money managers, but terrible money managed.

Never my money.

If it's not my money, that's always a problem.

Right.

Anyway, we shouldn't get into politics.

On that, we're going to wrap it up for today.

Yeah, I think that's I think that wraps up our L.A.

Auto Show coverage.

Yes.

Right.

I think we got everything covered for L.A.

Auto Show.

So we're on to new stuff.

What's on the docket for you guys toward the end of the year?

Last few.

Yeah, we got a big two and a half.

We start shooting our award season now, which comes out in February.

But we obviously have to, you know, got to produce the assets that then get all,

you know, produce that do all the post-production in January.

So that's a really busy two and a half weeks.

So left and then a lot of wrapping up the year and reviews and all sorts of stuff.

And, you know, we it's we try and have a little bit of a break between,

you know, the holiday season.

So we all work like hell in November, December to try and give us a break over the

over the holiday season itself.

So a lot, a lot going on.

So I've got to jump off this and start going reviewing some scripts.

So I'm on jazz hands duty next week.

There you go.

All right, guys.

Thanks shape as well.

You know, yeah, maybe it's up to you.

Oh, you got to get to the host.

You're the on screen.

I'm the host.

I'm the on screen.

And some I hadn't shaved one day and I already started writing on YouTube about like,

I got neck hair or something.

Shave your neck hair.

Well, everyone's got thoughts.

Everyone's got thoughts.

They are not shy to share them.

All right.

We're going to wrap things up and we'll see you guys next week.

Until then, keep the air in the spare and the bag in the wheel.

AI agents are everywhere automating tasks and making decisions at machine speed.

But agents make mistakes.

Just one rogue agent can do big damage before you even notice.

Rubrik Agent Cloud is the only platform that helps you monitor agents,

set guardrails and rewind mistakes so you can unleash agents, not risk.

Accelerate your AI transformation at Rubrik.com.

That's R-U-B-R-I-K dot com.

Let's be honest.

The idea of buying a car is exciting, but actually doing it, not so much.

Dealers calling you, asking you when can you come in, bait and switch sales tactics.

Yuck.

And you definitely don't want to spend an hour listening to a guy named Rick

check with his manager.

That's why CarEdge's AI negotiator is a game changer.

It contacts the dealer and does the haggling for you.

And it costs less than a tank of gas.

It's powered by real time market data and trained to spot dealer tactics and pricing patterns.

So it knows exactly what to push back on to get you the best deal.

Here's how it works.

You pick the car you want.

CarEdge creates an anonymous email and phone number for you.

And then your AI agent reaches out to the dealer on your behalf

and handles the entire negotiation.

No weird phone calls.

No pressure sales tactics.

And no, quote, I can knock $200 off the price if you buy it today nonsense.

The AI goes back and forth with dealers until it hits the best price.

You get the full chat history, full transparency and zero headaches.

It's like sending in a car buying assistant with zero patience for sales tactics.

You can try it today back at CarEdge.com slash AI.

That's CarEdge.com slash AI.

If you like the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe.

It really does help the show to grow.

Thank you for listening.

CarCast+Edmunds - Genesis Magma GT supercar, G90 Wagon and entry into motorsports. Plus, the Porsche Cayenne EV.

About this episode

Mercedes GLE

Toyota GX

Tesla

95 F one 50

Lucid

Magma GT concept

G90 wagon

Mercedes AMG wagon

Genesis wagon

Magma GT supercar

Hyundai Crater

Ionic five

GT 500

Macan EV

turbo

Taycan Turbo GT

0 to 60 in 2.4 seconds