CarCast+Edmunds - New Mustang RTR. Edmunds supercharges their Dark Horse. Porsche Cayenne EV initial range test.

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Hello, welcome to the Edmunds Car Cast podcast.

I'm Matt, the moderator.

DeAndrew here with Alistair Weaver.

How you doing?

I'm all right.

Thanks, Matt.

Friday morning as we record this, the end of the week.

It is-

Crazy time.

It's a bit of Mustang day.

There's a new Mustang that came out recently.

There was a little event here in LA where they launched that.

I went to that event.

I think you had somebody there, but you were not there.

I was on kid duty, so yes, we did have somebody there.

I think Ryan from the team was there, but I was on kid duty that night, so missed it.

I wanted to follow up with you guys about your supercharged Mustang that you were working

on as well, now that you've done some testing and stuff on it.

We've spoken about it several times.

I know when Brian was on the show last time, we touched on it, but we didn't have enough

time to break down his video and the installation and the dyno and stuff.

Maybe we can get into some of that.

First things first is Ford has teamed up with Vaughn Gittin Jr.

His brand is called RTR, Ready to Rock.

He's been in the Ford family for 20 years now.

He was a young guy in 2005 and got a sponsorship with them for drifting and went on to win

a couple of championships and really built up something fun and interesting behind that

brand.

Along the way, he had developed a number of aesthetic upgrades and some performance upgrades

and wheels and things like that for the Mustangs.

It's all just been aftermarket parts that you would throw onto your car.

But now he has teamed up with Ford to offer a turnkey package from the Ford dealers that

is branded RTR.

This is the only time Ford has done that aside from Shelby, their GT500 and stuff.

Everything else that's been out there has been what we would call a post-title package.

A lot of you are familiar with that.

You would buy your Mustang.

You could take it to Saleen or whatever.

Saleen is a little different, but you can take it to the Shelby factory in Vegas and

get one of their Super Snakes or one of their big trucks, their Super Snake trucks, and

it's a post-title package.

You buy the car first and you go to them.

This is from Ford, built on the Ford assembly line and offered in Ford dealers.

So I would imagine how exciting that is for Vaughn Gittin Jr. to go, we finally got it.

We finally got a car we wanted from the factory and showroom floors that we got to participate in.

Yeah, and I think this is, I mean, obviously, look, it's a marketing thing, right?

This is why these partnerships exist and, you know, I think across so many different

sectors of the market now, you know, you see in fashion, you see collaborations, you see

it in, you know, headphone manufacturers do collaborations.

I think, you know, Bowers & Williams is one with McLaren and things like that.

So you see this all across the industry, it's no surprise that the car world is trying

to get into it.

And maybe we should do a show, so I'm going off a tangent here, but maybe we should do

a show where we look at like some of the collaborations over the years.

I remember like Gucci, I mean, Gucci did a Fiat 500, I think Armani did one a couple

of years ago.

There's been some really weird kind of collaborations.

This one feels a lot more sensible because it's kind of an extension of their motorsport.

And for me, what it's about is just trying to get younger people excited about a Mustang

and trying to produce a kind of cool, interesting looking Mustang that's attached to something

that even if the man himself is getting on a bit, you know, feels youthful at a price

and it probably an insurance cost, which is a bit more accessible.

It's interesting that it's based on the EcoBoost engine.

It's not based on the V8.

You know, hopefully, they haven't announced the pricing, but hopefully the pricing somewhere

in the 40s, which of course is not cheap, but it's not, you know, what do you think

that we paid about 70 grand for a Dark Horse Mustang?

I think this is an attempt to do something that's a little bit more interesting at a

price point that's a bit more accessible.

Yeah, I agree with that.

So I'm expecting this thing probably to come in around 45, 46 grand.

But yes, to back up, you hit the big feature.

The big feature is this is the 2.3 liter EcoBoost engine.

They're not starting with the V8 car because they have the Mustang GT.

They have the Dark Horse.

They're working on another high performance variant that, you know, could be a Shelby,

probably not a Shelby.

But there was not a lot going on with the EcoBoost cars, which is a fun car.

And one of the things that they really pointed out that the EcoBoost car is the closest to

a 50-50 weight ratio, this side of a GTD, like it has a good balance on that car, you

know, and something that, you know, like for you guys who do so much track time is why

you appreciate the Cayman Porsche, right?

You know, so much is compared to the 911.

911 is great, but there's just something about that rear mid engine basically right behind

you and giving you such great balance.

So 2.3 liter EcoBoost, there isn't any additional horsepower.

But Ford has a patent on this anti-lag technology, something they developed on the Ford GT that

spools up the turbos, especially in between gears to keep that thing basically on the

pipe, if you will.

And that's been implemented in this car.

Now, it's just a calibration.

It's a tuning.

It's just a lot of them, finite tuning on the ECU calibration to make this work.

And apparently it really kind of does its job.

At 315 horsepower and 350 pound feet of torque, there are a few other options or not options,

but upgrades that you get with the RTR package.

You can get it with the big brake package.

It's Brembo six piston in the front, four piston in the rear.

They got the wheels pushed out a little bit.

It's got a little bit more of a like a 30 millimeter offset to push it out.

It's squared up.

So it's got the same wheel and tire size on nine and a half inch wheels all the way around.

I think 19, nine and a half.

It's got their drift brake, which of course is what you'd expect with a Von Gittin Junior

car.

So the drift brake, we should explain the drift brake.

A lot of people are still wondering what the hell that is.

So this is basically, you have to, if I remember right again, it wasn't any last week I drove

one.

You have to put it, it's a feature that I think you dial up through the screen if I

remember rightly.

So it's not just there by default, but it basically means you've got almost like a rally

car handbrake that you're not having to push a button, yank it, a thing.

You just sort of pull and it locks the rear end and allows you to do handbrake turns as

we call it in England.

And what do you call it?

Is it still a handbrake turn over here?

What's it called over here?

Yeah.

It was called an e-brake turn.

That sounds ridiculous.

Yeah.

And then, yeah, I mean, I guess a handbrake turn or a drift brake turn.

It's also the idea.

Now we just call it drift brake, I guess.

Yeah.

And I've tried with, and I've used this at the track a couple of times.

So the idea is you can either do like a 180 or you can use it to basically kick the tail

out and then hold the drift.

That's the idea.

So you put a little, so basically you turn in, you put a bit of steering lock into the

car, then you yank the handbrake, the rear steps out, then you jump back on the gas and

then you're into a drift.

Now depending on how much power you've got, how much tire you've got, you know, that's

the same thing as basically getting to the, you know, to the, to the edge of front end

grip and then banging on the, jumping on the gas.

But it's an easier way of doing it.

And it's certainly a kind of, you know, if you're trying to show off in a car park or

something that I'd condone that.

But if you were, then this is an easy way of doing it.

So again, it's like a cool little fun feature.

And it also fits with, you know, Ford CEO Jim Farley has come out and said, we're not

doing boring cars anymore.

You know, this is all of these cars that we make have got to be kind of iconic.

So it sort of fits with where they're, where they're heading.

I kind of like it.

I think it's got a...

So it looks like it's a fun car.

And I like that they're, they're, they're saying we have some fun performance features

built into a car that's not the more expensive V8 cars of the dark horse.

Like if you get this thing in the mid forties, that's a, that's a fun car to get.

And you know, it is a serial numbered car and it makes it a little special.

I don't know if it's really going to become a huge collector's item, but I think it makes

it something that's kind of fun and accessible to, you know, Vaughn's audience is a younger

audience, but also something a little bit more affordable and a little bit more fuel

efficient and like you said, less probably an insurance cost.

So I think it's a fun car.

And on the issue of, of the, the drift brake, yes, I think what they're doing with that

drift brake as well is because you go into the screen and you put it in a certain mode

and then you have that handle, it's doing things with the calibration to make that drifting

process easier and safer.

It's not just a, you know, a hot shoe like yourself going in and going, I can just do

this with a brake or I can just flick the rear out or what you'd like.

If you don't have those skills, this makes it a little bit easier.

So you can learn those skills.

It's like having Revmatch built in on a lot of your manual cars where you can, you can

turn on...

Firstly, thank you for calling me a hot shoe.

I kind of like that.

So it's a long time since anybody called me a hot shoe, but I'll take that at my age.

But it's, yeah, all these things, you're right, the technology makes all, I mean, technology

makes all these things.

We're going to talk about the new Edmunds U-Drag series in a minute because that's coming

back next week.

But, you know, all the technology is making these cars easier and easier to sort of play

with.

And, you know, does it take away from the skill?

I don't know.

Yeah.

It makes, I think it makes it fun and accessible.

The only thing it doesn't have, right, it's got a drift brake.

What doesn't this car have?

Which I think is quite surprising.

It does not have a manual transmission.

It does not have a manual transmission because I looked at this thing and I thought this

is a 911T.

This is Ford doing a Porsche 911T, which is basically going to take a few little bits

from across the range and some of the higher spec models, bolt them onto an entry level

car, charge a little bit more for it.

But basically let's go for the real enthusiast with this car and use it as a halo and stuff.

And they did all that.

And then they're not selling the manual version.

And maybe they're just like the kids don't care.

Maybe the kids, you know, nobody's teaching them to drive a manual.

Nobody's interested.

Nobody's going to buy it.

So what the hell?

We'll just do the auto.

But it did seem, having come for something that feels a bit more like purist, purist orientated,

it's a bit weird then to say we're not doing the manual.

I'm guessing it's one of two reasons.

It's either one, the only way to really get the drift brake to work in this capacity and

in all of these cars well is to have the automatic or two, they just crunch the numbers and they

just don't sell any manual EcoBoost cars.

I was actually trying to remember, do they do, do they even do a manual?

Can you get a manual EcoBoost now?

I know I should know this, but can you get a manual EcoBoost now?

You know, that's a good question.

But I think you might be right that if you start doing all this stuff, then you start

to lose, you know, if you start playing around with the electronics and everything else,

then you need the control that an automatic box gives you.

I think this is what people don't, things got so complicated.

The emissions regulations aren't as severe in the US as they are, say, in Europe.

But like talking to Porsche, and I think we mentioned this on the show before, the reason

the manual gearbox is under threat at Porsche and the reason it's on so few cars now, it's

got nothing to do with building or the cost or the demand, it's all to do with the fact

that you can't control the fueling and you can't control the emissions in the same way.

So it becomes more and more difficult to have a manual box because you don't, you can't,

the computers can't do their magic basically.

And that's why when you put in a hybrid system, it gets harder and harder.

So there's a lot of, there's a lot of reasons why having a clutch and everything else becomes

more difficult.

But I just looked at it and I thought, you've kind of done a purist Mustang, I like what

you're doing here.

You're trying to appeal to the youth, you know, is this sort of like a 45 grand 911T

and it's almost.

Almost but drift brake would have been priority over manual transmission.

Yeah, for this audience.

I get it.

But yeah, it's it's I look, I think it's a fun car.

I think it's good that they're doing something, the EcoBoost, because I do look at the range

and you look at the Dark Horse and you think, my God, it's like a 70 grand.

And you know, we've just done, I mean, it's probably a segue into it, but I think we talked

about briefly.

There's a supercharging it.

But also we're bringing back Edmunds U-Drags after a short break.

We filmed it.

We filmed it last week.

First one's going live next Friday or next Thursday.

So this Thursday, as you listen to the show and that that first one is featuring our supercharged

Mustang.

But our supercharged Mustangs, we bought the Dark Horse with the track pack.

And then when you layer on 15 grand's worth of supercharger and installation, suddenly

you're up at like eighty five thousand dollars.

And let's face it, that's a that's an awful lot of money to spend on a Mustang that isn't

a Shelby.

Yeah, but does it perform?

So you guys installed this supercharger on the Mustang.

You took it out to the test track.

Brian Wong on your team did a good video on on getting this dyno tuned and get getting

the dyno numbers on it.

And that one's worth a watch, because if you're not familiar with that process and it's not

something that's normally what what Edmunds does, right.

You don't dyno tune all dyno test all of these cars.

But Ford claims the supercharger package is eight hundred and ten horsepower.

Now, the reality is we're in California and it's unlikely we get to see any of the numbers

that other places get to see.

And I found this out with my Mustang Mach one as well when we did the twin turbo package

on it, which is an emissions tested.

It might be emissions legal now.

Maybe they got the number, but it passed all the tests that are waiting for the paperwork.

It's an emissions approved carb legal 50 state twin turbo package, just like this.

This supercharger package is.

And that's one of the reasons why you guys went with the Ford performance solution is

it's it's 50 state emissions legal.

It comes with a warranty if you've installed by a Ford dealer or an authorized installer.

And then you basically get, you know, a supercharged Mustang that's not a GT five hundred with

a three or thirty six thousand mile powertrain warranty.

That's right.

And Galpin Autosports installed it for us here in L.A.

We've worked with them before, you know, obviously a very professional slick operation.

They did a nice job of of installing it, took it to the took it to the dyno, which is, you

know, I think the other thing, again, we don't get like too technical, but there's a big

difference between the power, the horsepower that a manufacturer quotes is basically at

the crankshaft.

But the horsepower that but the dyno is measuring what happens at the tires and they're always

losses in the in the sort of transmission process.

So you were saying Ford is claiming eight, 10 at the crankshaft, which compares with,

you know, that's how every brand basically announces their horsepower at the dyno.

And again, watching the video, it's a really interesting explanation of the process and

why it matters.

You know, we got six hundred and thirty horsepower and five hundred and twenty one pounds feet

of torque.

Yeah.

So maybe if you calculate back, it's a little bit down on the eight, 10 because we're in

California, but it's still quite a significant uplift.

And then the next thing for us was, right, how does what does this mean?

And we tested it at the test track.

You don't have launch control on this car.

So everything's on your right foot.

We took it down then to the Edmunds Utrecht track last.

It's an automatic.

Let's make that clear.

Automatic transmission.

So, well, of course, you can have manual and if you get the manual, this is perverse, really.

But if you get the manual, you can get the launch control that comes with launch control.

If you get the automatic, it doesn't.

For reasons.

It's weird because it seems so easy in the automatic, just left foot brake and hammer

down.

Good to go.

Nobody at Ford has given us, nobody at Ford has given us an appropriate or nobody at Ford

has really given us a proper explanation as why manual has it, auto doesn't.

The other thing about Dark Horse compared to the old Shelby, the old Shelby had a double

clutch transmission, which was fantastic.

The Dark Horse doesn't.

It basically just has a what I call a more conventional automatic, which feels right

now like the Wheat Link in the in the whole car.

But what the Dark Horse, what the Dark Horse does have, if you have the track pack, is

super, super sticky tires.

So Pirelli Trofeo RS tires, which are, I think were built for, if I get this right,

if I remember rightly, I think they were on the Pagani, they're on the 911 GT3 RS.

So they are a lot of tire for a Mustang.

I mean, they look like hand cut slicks.

There's almost no tread in them.

They're not good to drive if it's cold or it's wet.

Yeah.

You know, take an Uber.

You kind of need, like I did this on my Mach 1 too, I was like, you got to have a second

set.

I just got another set of wheels and tires and kept my R-compounds basically for more

spirited driving.

More spirited driving on a very warm day when you get a chance to warm it up.

It was, we just shot the whole series of Edmunds U-Drags.

We did 11 races, which was a really amazing team effort.

We did that in two days.

It's quite a, quite a thing.

It's quite an operation now.

And what was, what I think really stuck out for me was, everybody talks about like brakes,

carbon ceramic, not carbon ceramic.

We had a lot of very high performance cars, not going to kind of completely give the game

away here, but we had a lot of high performance cars.

Carbon ceramic or not carbon ceramic tires for me is the really big differentiator.

If you've got a set of super high performance tires on it, we just look at the numbers,

the braking, the cornering, the ultimate grip, huge difference.

If you prep them and, you know, you've got to get them warm, you've got to get them into

operating temperature.

You feel a bit like formula one, you know, it's all like, how was my outlap prep is different

determines, you know, whether my, whether or not it's a little bit like that.

It's like, if you sat in the start line and I know when the cameras goes down, it needs

to be a bachelor.

I'm losing tire temp and sounds silly, but it's, it really makes a huge difference.

And we had cars with ceramic brakes, which were a bit like on the braking and cars without

ceramic brakes, but had super sticky tires where you're like, Whoa, you can really lean

on this car.

Yeah.

So, um, we'll get into some of the results later when, uh, when the Udrax videos come

out, but you did have the car at the test track and compared to, let's say the normal

dark horse to the supercharged dark horse to the GT 500, it, it's definitely much closer

to the GT 500 as far as performance.

And I think you're like a 10th or two away, zero to 60.

I'm not quite sure where you are on the quarter mile, but, um, you know, even with trying

to, to baby it a little bit off the line and no launch control and, and you just being

the hot shoe that you are.

It wasn't me driving.

I had a quick Google while you were yabbering away and mocking me.

Uh, it, it's yeah.

Dark horse was supercharged on our track.

Three points.

So dark horse 4.4 to 60 Shelby GT 500 3.9 dark horse with supercharger three, sorry,

3.7 for the GT 500 with launch control, 3.9 for the supercharged dark horse without it.

By the time we get to the quarter course, less of a traction issue.

Yeah.

12.6 for the standard car, 11.3 for the Shelby and 11.6 for the supercharged.

So it only loses another 10th between, um, you know, between the, the 60, 60 miles an

hour and then, and then to the quarter, but breaking, you know, breaking 60 to zero on

those tires, 99 feet, which is really impressive.

Yeah.

Um, I mean that's up there with, you know, high performance Porsches and everything else.

And even the standard, you know, that, that's a, that's a very strong, very strong performance.

So just on, on the issue of power.

So out here, because you've got 630 horsepower to the tires and there's roughly a 10 to 20%

drive train loss, um, probably on average, 15%, maybe a little more through that automatic

transmission.

So I know Ford says it's 810 horsepower package, maybe out of state on proper fuel and the

right octane and, and yeah, maybe even that out of state calibration.

Yeah.

So, um, you're probably getting about 750 horsepower at the crank, much, much closer

to that seven 60 of the GT 500.

So the GT 500 to be two 10ths quicker, maybe zero to 60 in that quarter mile is really

probably just the function of that launch control and the DCT transmission.

I think that car's incredibly fast with that automatic transmission.

I agree.

So before we go to the, I'm going to also share the, the figures that we got from the

year.

So the Edmunds U-Drag, we have our test track, which is down in LA, which is more akin to

road tarmac, um, in terms of grip level, the, we bet for the Edmunds U-Drags where we need

a lot more, clearly need a lot more space and a lot more width is a different, different

exercise.

We use a, is top secret airfield, but being an airfield, it's very grippy and you start

to see that.

So like the zero to 60 drops from 3.9 to, to 3.7.

And that's really just to do with probably prepping the tires a bit better because we've

got a bit more space to, you know, there's a burnout section at the airfield where, you

know, everybody's laid a load of rubber down.

So it probably is two things.

I think it's prepping the tires and then a bit of extra grip from the airfield, whereas

the test track, we try and come up with numbers which are relevant to the real world.

So, you know, people aren't prepping the tires, you know, the traffic lights.

So we're trying, so a quarter is 11.5, what did I say it was at our test track, 11.6.

So yeah, we're only, we're only, we're pretty much matching it to the, to the quarter, but

you look at the, going back to the tire bit, I look at the maximum cornering on a grippy

surface 1.25 G, that's in the middle of the race.

That's a hell of a result.

There is a car, which we'll talk about on another show, which just done 1.37, might

have a very big rear wing on it.

So that's, but if I look, so if I compare that, I'm not, I'm not going to give away

the result of the first race because it's, we're launching it on Thursday.

So you've got a couple of, depending on when you listen to this, Thursday, the, oh my God,

what date is it?

Yeah, it'll be, it'll be out.

It'll be out.

Thursday, October the 23rd, probably not as you listen.

Oh no, not, not out yet, not out yet, yeah.

So we're going live on October the 23rd, 6am in the morning, if you're that excited.

So first race, I don't mind giving away Mustang Dark Horse Supercharged against Corvette Stingray.

In the last series, Stingray was, uh, Stingray comfortably beat the Dark Horse and we said,

then we're going to supercharge it.

We're going to come back.

Can Ford get its revenge?

I'm going to share a few figures with you.

So Corvette was unexpectedly way faster off the line, mid-engined, launch control, traction

control on, the whole shebang, 3.3 to 60.

And bear in mind, this is not the Z06, it's not the E-Ray, this is the entry level Corvette.

I know everyone's talking about Z06 and ZR1, but don't, don't sleep on, on the Stingray.

That car is amazing.

This car is like, cause we own, you may remember like Edmunds owned one.

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

You know, and then everybody would, you know, every, and then suddenly it, um, you know,

we had to, we had to get, we had to sell it.

Well, we didn't, you know, we, we, it's time with us was done, shall we say?

Um, but yeah, it's still an amazing car.

So 3.3, where am I with the figures?

3.3 to 60, um, which is an amazing figure.

11.7 to the quarter.

I mean, this is not, you know, this is the entry level Corvette now.

Uh, the finish line, it was doing what, almost 129 miles now on 28.6, but the Mustang 3.7

to 60.

So you see, you know, again, watch the video, but the Stingray just buff off the line Mustang.

It's really hard when you're driving it, you know, even if you're a hot shoe like me, um,

it's really hard when you're, when you're driving it, you've got your left foot on the

brake and you're just trying to basically build up a little bit of power in the talk

video of the right foot.

So you were kind of holding it around, I was doing around sort of 1700 RPM.

You can see it on the dashboard.

And then you're hearing in your ear, this kind of like, uh, the hearing in your ear,

this kind of three, two, one, and then you desperately watching this Corvette go away.

And you just got to be so patient because it's like, right, I've got to like feather

my left foot off, right foot on.

Don't get too excited.

Don't like the rear up and just drive it away.

And on a couple of practice runs, both Jonathan and I was doing the John L Fallon was doing

the other in the other case, but it was like really hard to like focus your mind to let

the other car go.

Cause you know, you're going to, it's going to beat you off the line, uh, but still do

a good launch and obviously be like, we managed to do 3.7 to 60.

So that's still a, um, that's still a very fast time, but that was the sort of mentality.

And then once it's up and running, then you get the, all that horsepower and you haven't

got the traction and then it's just mighty under the brake.

So as I say, 1.25 G in the corner, but the Corvette did 1.17.

I mean, that's, and that's not on such aggressive tires, but across the line, the Mustang was

pulling 138.1 miles an hour.

So what I would say it's well worth a watch because the Corvette it's the tortoise in

the head, the Corvette's gone.

And then, you know, but you get that top end coming in for the, uh, for the Mustang, it

was really exciting.

And of course it all sounds amazing too.

So, and here's a question for you because the, the GT 500 has been sold off.

You guys had it, uh, in, in the fleet for probably longer than most cars, but you guys

enjoyed that car so much.

It's really kind of what started the U-Drag thing.

Um, this whole, uh, you know, this whole adventure that you guys are doing with U-Drags was kind

of fueled by the GT 500 and it being such a fun car.

Is the supercharged dark horse fun?

Did you guys have fun with that car?

Yeah, we really, we, we really did.

We, we, I drove it on the track and I did the video of it on the track and I was like,

ah, is it really just that much better?

And it's not a GT 500.

I think some of that's the gearbox.

Some of that's just, it just, it's just not as sharp.

It's just, it's not a GT 500, but it is really fun.

It sounds ridiculous.

It the whole, you know, you, the fact that it, you, you know, you can turn all the stability

control off.

You've got enough power to slide it.

I mean, we did one race where, which won't make the cut.

It was more, you know, if we clearly get a false result, then we don't, you know, we

do another run.

That's common sense, but came out the bottom corner, got too excited, got too hard on the

throttle and just did like a massive slide.

And I haven't seen the footage yet.

I've been requesting it.

The editors, when they find it, but, you know, just did like a massive slide, tire smoke

coming off, engine roaring, lost the race, but like came back feeling utterly heroic.

And it's that car, you know, this is, you know, this is just a really fun car to knock

around in.

But then so is any V8 Mustang, actually.

I think, I think it's still, you know, it is a fun car and the supercharger and the

black dark horse just turns it up a little notch, but it is, it is a chunk of change.

The only bit I find difficult with it is, you know, it's, it's 85 grand for a non Shelby,

which probably the Shelby's hold that value pretty well.

I'm not convinced that dark horse with a supercharger is going to hold its value like our Shelby

did.

No, but it's the one you can drive if you're worried about putting miles on your Shelby

because of that value.

Dark horse, even with or without the supercharger, it's a fun car, drive it, have fun with it.

It is.

Yeah.

I think that's, I think that's absolutely right.

It's quite still quite usable.

It's quite practical.

Then you've got the Corvette, which in the trim that we had it, which had the performance

pack on it and everything else was pushing 90 grand.

So basically pretty much the same price, but totally different experience.

Mid engine feels like a proper, you know, it has that sort of supercar vibe about it.

Yeah.

Sat low.

You, you know, you've only got a little bit in front of you, you've got the engine behind

you.

Very, very different feel.

The Mustang is a bit of an old bruiser front engine, lots of power, too much power for

the traction Corvette is much more of a sophisticated sports car and it's great that you've got

that choice.

Yeah.

Uh, okay.

Well, uh, you drags next week.

We're going to be looking forward to that, um, when 23rd, October 23rd is first one.

I think we're going to probably do a show where we, we get into this in a bit more.

Yeah.

I think we'll, we'll, we'll talk about it more because we'll, we'll record it again

after one really nice moment to show that we had where we shoot is, it's quite wide

open and sometimes you have problems, particularly at the end of the day, you get like kids trying

to come on and, uh, you know, and all of it.

And we thought we had a trespasser and I hope maybe they're listening to the show, but we

thought we had a trespasser and he turned out to be somebody with binoculars who was

like a fan of the show.

I was like, Hey, we're up to something here.

Not so secret test track, not so secret test track, but I thought that's cool.

If you live locally, you'll recognize where it is, but it's, it's a, yeah, we sent one

of the production teams like, you know, go and figure out who the trespasser is.

And it was somebody with binoculars because they're a fan of the show.

So I really, I enjoyed that.

It's nice.

They probably couldn't find you until you, you went on your, your, your big drift unintentionally

in the dark or probably did a cloud of smoke in the air.

They're like, now we know where it is.

Um, I don't want to figure out how much you spent on tires on that Mustang.

That's the other problem with these tires is these RSs are fantastic, but they're very

soft and very sticky.

And you know, anybody who watches motor sport will know fast, sticky, soft tires don't tend

to last very well.

No.

And that's probably a thousand dollars a corner for that tire.

If you want to warm them up and burn some rubber to warm them up and then you lean on

them.

Yeah.

All right.

We've got to take a quick break and then we'll be right back.

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Okay.

All the fun stuff aside, that's not all we have going on.

You guys got into another vehicle.

You got into the Porsche Cayenne EV.

Porsche has been kind of up in the air.

It's like, are we doing all this EV stuff?

Are we not going to do this EV stuff?

Their boss, I guess the CEO of Porsche and VW that's kind of sharing duties, they just

announced that we're not doing that anymore.

He's going to maybe just step aside and do one thing or the other and it's not going

to be Porsche.

You and I have read the same press release this morning that, yeah, Olivier Blum, isn't

it, who was basically the head, I've got it here, was the head of the Volkswagen group.

I mean, people have these extraordinary jobs.

I mean, imagine being head of the Volkswagen group, oh, and by the way, you're also CEO

of Porsche.

I mean, it's like, okay.

So now they're changing it so Porsche is going to have its own CEO dedicated to the brand.

A guy who was actually Dr. Michael Leiters, who has recently been CEO of McLaren, but

ex-Ferrari, CTO of Ferrari, CEO of McLaren, but before that, he was a Porsche for a long

time.

He was in the sports car world.

Now he's now he's taking over Porsche.

Yeah.

I mean, that we we talked about before that they're in a bit of a mess.

If you look at the share price, they went all in on an EV strategy and now they're backpedaling

furiously to bring gas engines back into Cayennes and back into, you know, back into Macau sorts

of things.

You know, they're having and the problem is all this is costing them billions and I mean

billions of dollars.

Yeah.

And meanwhile, Volkswagen has been having layoffs and stuff as well.

So, you know, the Volkswagen Group, the Volkswagen Group often relied on Porsche's profits to

carry the overall company.

But profits are dwindling and then you're going to add tariffs on to that.

It's going to be this is this is the this is the challenge.

You're right.

I mean, if you looked at Volkswagen Group, what was holding the group up really was Audi

and Audi and Porsche, you know, because there's better margin in it.

Porsche's profit margin.

I mean, Ferrari's profit margin is way beyond anybody else.

But then Porsche is super profitable and Porsche is probably the only, you know, big sort of

what you'd call high, higher volume brand that turns big profits Audi, you know, much

more profitable than Volkswagen itself.

But now Porsche's, you know, it's tough because you could look at it and, you know, people

will be writing this history in a few years time.

You could look back at it and say.

Really stupid decision making to go all in EVs when you're a sports car manufacturer.

But at the time when they made those decisions and Volvo made basically the same decisions

as a family SUV brand, you know, by 2030 or worse, 2035, everything is going to be electric

anyway.

So if you're not building billion, you know, millions and millions of cars, you've got

to place a bet.

They were looking at it saying, oh, China's the big market, Europe, the US.

Let's go EV first and, you know, we'll ride out the wave.

Now, because of everything that's happened politically and everything else now, the US

has done this big U-turn.

Everybody's having to pivot.

Everybody's losing a ton of money.

So Porsche is basically in this world now where they're about to roll out.

The Cayenne EV, which was supposed to be the great hope.

Yeah.

And now it's going to come to market in a world where everybody's going to be talking

about the fact that they're trying to reengineering everything for gas engines, which doesn't

really take away from what the Cayenne EV will be.

I mean, we've just done not the Edmunds EV range.

This is just something with a prototype car on a Porsche route around L.A., but we did

well over 300 miles, which is what we'd expect.

I think it would be madness to launch a car like this with under 300 miles.

I mean, Tesla told me a couple of weeks ago that they will not do a car with an EPA rating

of less than 300 miles.

So we're going to go and see the Cayenne EV shortly in its undisguised form.

I think it's going to be a really strong car, but it's going to be a load of money.

And you wonder how big the market for it is because the Cayenne EV has, I wouldn't say

it's unloved, but it's not loved in the way that the gas Cayenne has been for a decade

or more.

Yeah.

And the Cayenne EV that you guys did, this prototype of the 328 miles, Porsche, of course,

always does several versions, right?

They do their base models.

They do maybe an S and a turbo or GT or whatever.

So what version of this is basically the base version.

So 328 miles is probably the most we're going to see out of a Cayenne EV.

Not that it's bad.

It's good miles.

From there, the more high performance variants are going to tick down a little bit in the

range department.

Yeah.

It sort of depends a little bit on, I think, I can't remember whether they're doing two

battery packs, but I think, yeah, at the moment, I think that's probably where it's going to

land.

And yeah, then they may well, you know, whether they've engineered to have more battery pack

or also as the car evolves, are they going to get more efficiency out of the battery?

So suddenly you get more power for the same space and the same cost, you know, as they

update the car through its life.

And, you know, this is one of the challenges that the technology is still, you know, is

still evolving.

And, you know, this is not going to be a cheap car.

This is going to be a hundred and fifty grand car.

I don't see how it's any less with everything that's going on in the world.

You know, we think that we paid a hundred grand for our Macan and that was a, you know,

relatively basic model.

Cayenne is going to be, you know, a lot more expensive than that.

Range Rover EV is going to be two hundred grand.

And, you know, we had a going back to the Edmunds Udrex chat, we did have a Carrera

S there without giving the whole game away.

And, you know, that was one hundred and eighty grand.

And I went through the spec and I was like, there's nothing really here that I wouldn't

have a Carrera S for one hundred eighty grand.

Like that, that was Turbo S money.

And this is why, you know, the tariffs plus all the costs and everything else, you know,

costs keep going up.

And then it's where's the, you know, are there enough people with one hundred eighty

grand to spend on a car, which is sort of mid-range 911, you know, the GTS.

And that's before you get into turbo and city turbos, GT3s are three hundred grand.

Turbos can be more than that and say, well, this is this is like serious, serious money.

I mean, you know, how many people have got four, you know, three hundred, four hundred

grand to spend on a car?

Well, it'll be interesting to see how that plays out, because for me, the appeal of

911 was getting such a well-sorted sports car with so much history and community.

And and for many models like certain 911 resale value and wasn't anywhere near like

Ferrari money, you know, and now it's it's all Ferrari money.

Well, apart from the fact Ferrari is now seven hundred grand.

Yeah, right. But I drove home.

We'll talk about the show.

I drove home and I've got an Audi SQ5 parked outside.

The new is the first time I've driven the new Q5 over 70 grand.

And it's kind of it's a little bit underwhelming for that money.

But I don't know.

We need to do a proper deep.

I think we should do a show where we really kind of dig into all of this, because for

me, you know, a lot of the the sort of mainstream brands, you know, like Hyundai

Palisade drove recently, even things like the new Volkswagen Touran, not the Touran,

the what's the little Tiguan Tiguan's funny names.

You know, that's a really nice car for like in the 30s.

And there seems to be now a lot of the mainstream brands are doing great products in

that sort of 30 to 40 grand range.

And the luxury brands often made overseas and all these challenges are suddenly like,

whoa, hang on a minute, we're 100 grand, we're 150 grand.

And they seem, you know, it's a it's tough.

It's really tough out there.

Yeah. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens to to some of these brands and

how it's going to pan out, like we said, with with tariffs and and just costs, you

know. Meanwhile, you know, there's like the Hyundai group, the Hyundai, you know,

Kia, Genesis.

It's like posting record sales, record numbers like they're just going gangbusters.

And they also I mean, they're doing great product, but they also have a slightly

different business model, which I think helps them to think a bit more long term.

Yeah. You know, you're not in the Volkswagen group situation in quite the same way

where you're just looking over your shoulder at the share price and you've got the

unions on your back and you've got this and you've got that politics.

And, you know, that is a messy job right now.

Yeah. You know, in the Chinese, obviously, the other thing is we don't have the

Chinese brands here in the way that you do in Europe, particularly in the UK.

And, you know, that's changing the landscape as well.

So, yeah, interesting, interesting times.

But, you know, Ford just brought out a new EcoBoost Mustang with lots of fluorescent

cream paint. So, yeah, it's called Hyper Lime, which is a hyper lime, hyper lime.

It's a term I learned about during that presentation.

But yeah, it's good.

It's fine. All right.

We're going to wrap up the marketing meeting.

It's not just lime.

It's hyper, hyper lime.

Well, I think they had that color already at the RTR brand before they brought it to

that Mustang. It was something that they were working on for, you know, probably

something they've had for a while because everyone had the hat and the shirt and

everything. I've got I've got the lime.

Give me more. Yeah.

And they were handed out shirts and they were hyper lime.

It's that fluorescent, fluorescent color.

And I was like, this shirt's perfect.

And if I'm going to go for a jog or a bike ride in the middle of the night because I

will be seen for nearly Halloween, you'd be fine.

Yeah, I've looked like I have one of those safety vests.

I just got off a job site.

But all right.

We're going to wrap things up next week when we're on the show.

The first of the U-Drag videos will drop.

So take a look at that and maybe we'll get into a little bit more of what's going on.

Anything else before we run?

No, apologies for yawning.

If I was on YouTube, I just had a massive yawn.

I'm just tired. It's been a long week.

Clicking on. Thank you.

Well, it's Friday.

So it's very weird this end of the day.

You're you're you're welcome to it.

I did. I need to take I did a presentation to the company yesterday.

There was there was there was.

Yeah, I know how many people online, a couple of hundred, two or three hundred or

something. And my computer froze in the middle of it, which is, you know, it's been

that kind of week. All right.

Well, hopefully have a good weekend.

All right. Thank you, sir.

Thanks, guys. Until next time.

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