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CarEdge Live Q&A | Episode 909
About this episode
A lively Q&A session where hosts Ray and his son tackle a variety of automotive topics, from manual transmission journeys to leasing strategies. They discuss the nuances of vehicle pricing, the impact of market conditions on used car purchases, and the complexities of leasing versus buying, especially for EVs. Listeners gain insights on negotiating prices, understanding fees, and the importance of doing research before visiting dealerships. The episode also touches on the challenges of the automotive industry and the hosts' personal experiences with flooding in New Jersey.
Topics:
leasing strategies
manual transmissions
used car market
vehicle pricing
negotiating prices
non-tax fees
electric vehicles
customer experience
buying advice
Today on CarEdge Live, Ray and Zach have a Q&A! Tune in to learn more! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com
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Toyota Camry
"is they are one of one. Yes, it could be a Toyota Camry and there are hundreds of thousands of Toyota Cam..."
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Mercedes-Benz Mercedesbenz Gla
"from test accounting here. Now, I'm considering selling my 2023 Mercedes-Benz GLA. I would break even at around $26,000."
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It's noon here in Ventner City, New Jersey
and our nation's capital, Washington, D.C.
And this is Car Eng Live for Friday, August 22nd
with your hosts, me, Ray, here in,
well, it's dry today, but there is the potential
for coastal flooding in Ventner City, New Jersey.
And well, my handsome young son in Washington, D.C.
And today's show is nothing but you get to ask us
whatever the hell it is you want.
Hey, I'm open to anything, ladies and gentlemen.
Feel free to just fire questions at will.
Yeah, that's the deal, folks.
We're just doing Q&A today,
friendlyremindercaredge.com.
If our team can help you out with anything, check it out.
And a friendly reminder, we are offering 20%
off Car Edge Insights and our car buying services.
We have an incredible team here
that serves hundreds and thousands
of customers every single month.
Please give us the privilege of trying to serve you.
Check it out, caredge.com.
All right, so Onus is on the chat today, Dad.
Onus, I don't even have a question to kick it off with.
Well here, I started the first comment for you.
Collar and shirts, is everybody okay?
I'm having a pretty rough day, if I'm being honest.
How are you doing, Dad?
I'm having great, buddy.
I'm having a phenomenal day.
It is, I mean, literally,
I was sending pictures to my children last night,
like every 15 minutes or so,
showing how far the water was creeping
into the parking lot here at the condo.
Now I can honestly say, at a certain point,
the entire parking lot was filled with water.
I had never seen flooding this badly in the inventor.
I'm sure there's been times when it's worse,
but I had never seen it.
And as I was explaining to Zach this morning,
I was watching people kayaking down the street, okay?
Not in the bay, just down the street,
because, well, the bay was in the street,
and in our parking lot and other people's yards.
And yeah, it was, yeah, it was lovely last night.
So why are we wearing collar shirts?
It got chilly, okay?
It's 68 degrees in my apartment today.
Yeah, no, it's definitely the weather's changed.
Let's keep it moving here.
We've got from believe in yourself.
Will my manual transmission journey be shared
as a documentary?
We actually got to execute on that.
I feel frustrated with myself
because we talked about doing it and then we didn't do it,
which is like a bit of a thing that I'm dealing with today,
like talking about doing something
that then not following through with it.
I'm feeling frustrated right now about that with myself.
So if we do it, sure.
Oh, let's rephrase it.
When we do it, it's not if, it's when.
We just don't know when the when will be,
but when we do it,
we will definitely document it, ladies and gentlemen,
because I think that could probably make
some of the most compelling video
that we've ever produced here at Carriage,
especially me fearing for my life, as I'm saying.
No, the clutch, the brake, the gas, use them all,
buddy, use them all.
Sounds like we're doing it, folks,
but I got to figure out how to make that happen.
Scuba Bob wants to know,
when's the next Mazda hybrid coming?
Like the press vehicle, is that the question?
I would think that's what the question is.
I don't know.
I don't think we have anything lined up,
which is a bit of a bummer, but that's okay.
I'm sure we can reach out to them and ask,
hopefully, they'll give us more press vehicles in the future.
XRP wants to know, do you guys look for a 7% to 10% discount
from MSRP?
Totally depends on the vehicle.
So it's totally vehicle dependent
and region dependent, right?
It's vehicle dependent.
It's regionally dependent.
It's brand dependent.
You can look for a 7% to 10% discount
from MSRP on a Toyota.
My guess is you ain't getting it on most of them,
whereas you can look for that 7 to 10
or greater discount on, say, a RAM pickup truck.
And I would guarantee you would get that more.
So it really is brand dependent and regional dependent.
Yeah, we have backoncarage.com on the car search,
target discount, which is the percent or the amount
that you should get as a dealer discount
from any vehicle you're searching for.
So check that out back on the website.
We've got this question, Dad, that just came in.
What is a non-tax fee?
A non-tax fee is typically a state fee.
And for instance, the state title fee,
the state registration fee, sales tax itself.
You don't pay tax on sales tax.
You don't pay tax on your title and registration fees.
Now, it's incumbent upon you as a customer
to go to your website, your motor vehicle website
for the state and find out exactly what the fees are
that the state charges.
Because I'm not going to sit here and suggest to you
that there are dealers out there
that don't inflate the state fees
in order to pick up extra money
because they figure you don't know
and you're never going to check.
And so if it's $132 to register the vehicle,
they might tell you it's $232.
And that extra $100 bucks is going to them.
So you need to check at your state motor vehicle website
find out what the title fee is
for titling a car or truck,
find out what the registration fees are.
And those are non-taxed fees.
Nice.
Good stuff, Pops.
Appreciate that.
As always, we've got here from Road King.
Pops, I felt leases.
How do we know what the residual value is
before negotiating?
Well, the residual percentage is set
by the leasing company.
Which we have on our lease calculator,
which is free.
So you can use our lease calculator
and it shows you the residual value.
So just Google search lease calculator car edge
and it shows you the residual value there.
Also, the dealership will share
the residual value with you.
They have to.
They have to.
I mean, if you tell them that you're interested
in the lease and whatever model it is,
you can say, well, what's the residual percentage
for this vehicle?
It's published and set by the leasing company.
So it's not a negotiable item, okay?
So if, and I saw a comment earlier today
when I was reviewing some of the comments
from yesterday's show.
And somebody asked the question,
well, isn't the residual value
based against the manufacturer
suggested retail price of the vehicle?
It is indeed.
That's where it comes from.
So if a car has has a $40,000 MSRP
and it has a 25% residual,
that means that $30,000 is the amount of depreciation.
And the customer's question was
or the commenter's question was,
well, but why would I want to negotiate
a lower price on the vehicle?
Well, the lower price you're negotiating
on the vehicle means the cost
to the leasing company is less.
And so if the car has an MSRP of $40,000
and a 25% residual, there's a $30,000 spread
for depreciation.
However, if you're buying that $40,000 MSRP
for $35,000,
well, suddenly there's only $25,000 in depreciation
from the selling price,
which would end up lowering your monthly payment.
So that's the residual set by the leasing company.
Leasing company, the reason you negotiate the prices
so that you can lower the cost to the leasing company,
which ultimately lowers the monthly payment to you.
Leasing is obviously more complex
than just financing a vehicle.
So again, Google search, leasing guide,
car edge, and we have all sorts of materials like that
that can assist you with that information.
That we've got here for For the Love of Rides
I'm on the car edge website right now.
I see the email template for requesting
the out-the-door price for a new vehicle,
but is there a template for used vehicles?
It's the same deal, same deal.
You're just asking for the out-the-door price,
all taxes, fees, things like that.
Butting the dealer, no, you're gonna contact
other dealerships too, you know, you're a savvy shopper.
So that information should be the same
between new and used vehicles.
We've got here, Dad, from Ray.
Following up on leasing,
EV always leased rather than by?
These days, the amount of depreciation
associated with EVs at the moment
is astronomical in comparison to most ICE vehicles.
Now, the caveat to that is if you are planning
on keeping that EV for seven, eight, 10 years,
then buy it.
If this is your first foray into an EV
and you wanna take a 24-month or 36-month travel time
to see if you like it, then that would be the way to do it.
So, and with the amount of depreciation there is
and the artificially high residual values
that the manufacturers are offering,
a lease is much, much cheaper.
And at least it gives you the opportunity
to experience an EV for 24 or 36 months.
And if you decide after that time
that that's what your future is, then buy the next one.
But the first one, I would lease it just to make sure,
A, you're comfortable with it
and you like it enough moving forward.
And B, you're not the one that's paying
for all that depreciation.
Pops from Joe here.
We're sticking on the lease theme,
lease versus certified pre-owned pros and cons.
I'm not sure how you can compare leasing.
You can't, they're two different things.
One is your CPO is a certified pre-owned vehicle.
Typically, you would purchase those, not lease them.
There are some lease deals that might be available
on some CPO vehicles.
But a CPO just stands for a certified pre-owned vehicle.
If you are looking at a certified pre-owned vehicle,
make sure it is a manufacturer certified pre-owned vehicle.
In other words, what I mean by that
is if you're at a used car lot and they have a used Toyota
and they tell you it's certified,
well that's a third party certification
which is completely different than say
what Toyota's certification program would be for a used car.
So you have to understand is it a third party program
or a manufacturer program and leasing
or it's not an apples to apples comparison.
From LT, what's the difference
between those non-tax fees you were talking about
before and a dock fee?
Those are totally different.
Oh, they are and a dock fee is taxable.
And so a dock fee is something you can try
and negotiate off of the purchase or lease.
Now, most dealers, if they will negotiate that with you,
will negotiate a reduction in the selling price
in an amount equal to or less than what the dock fee is.
But the dock fee will always appear on the buyer's order
and all the other documents associated with the deal
because they want to be able to claim
that everybody gets charged a dock fee.
So you can try and negotiate an equal amount
of the dock fee off of the selling price.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Let's keep it going here.
You think Chinese car brands will hit the US markets,
will they be a lot cheaper if and when they do?
We're getting geopolitical here.
Do I, do I, do I, you know,
I would think ultimately some year, some day,
maybe not my lifetime,
but eventually things make it here.
It is so hard to try and predict something like that
based on the current political situation
surrounding tariffs and worldwide trade.
So things are so, so much different today
than they were seven or eight or nine months ago.
So it is hard to imagine that we will see Chinese imports
in the United States anytime soon.
Would they be cheaper than comparable Asian brands,
Japanese brands, Korean brands or domestic brands?
You bet your sweet ass they will.
You know, even if the government of China
has to underwrite it, you know they will.
It's just, you know, that's the reality of the situation.
If they're going to enter a market,
they're going to enter it by having a huge price advantage
over everyone else.
Yeah, absolutely.
Dad, you've got to hear from Eric.
Is the best time to buy a used car now
or wait for prices to go down?
Used car market doesn't seem like prices are going to go down
anytime soon.
Macro sentence, you know, macro sentiment,
they're like, used car prices are just higher
than they've typically done,
but what do you make of this question?
Here's the best way I can answer that question.
If you can find a pre-owned car today
that you like at a price that works for you,
buy the damn thing, okay?
If you think you're going to time your purchase
perfectly as to when prices are either going up or down,
I guarantee you you will be wrong, okay?
You might be close, but you'll be wrong.
And so the concept of a pre-owned vehicle
is they are one of one.
Yes, it could be a Toyota Camry
and there are hundreds of thousands of Toyota Camrys,
but no other Toyota Camry was driven
and maintained the way that particular Toyota Camry was.
So if you find a used car that you like
at a price that you're good with,
just buy the damn thing, either that or I, you know,
just sometimes you just move forward and buy the damn thing
and put yourself out of your misery
because this is never really going to get better and better.
And it's as good as it's going to be for the time being.
If you find that bargain that works for you, just buy it.
This winter, know what your vehicle needs
before it needs it.
Visit your Buick Certified Service Center
and ask for a multi-point vehicle inspection
and take advantage of stackable rebates.
See dealer for complete details.
Multi-point vehicle inspections vary
by participating dealer.
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You may remember me as being the guy
you wanted to get money into the hands
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From Namrette, it seems to me
that the down payment of cash that's required for a lease
sort of nullifies the benefit of a lower price.
Is that true or not?
Well, the down payment that you see advertised on leases
is to lower the selling price of the vehicle
to the lease company, okay?
And they're counting on you to do that
rather than you negotiating
a lower price of the vehicle for the lease company.
And the reason they use cash down like that,
you know, where they say it's $39.99 down,
that's so it can fit into that cheap payment
they're trying to advertise.
Remember this, on a 36-month lease,
every $1,000 equates to about $30 a month
more in your payment.
So if they're advertising a lease of, say, $289
with $4,000 down, well, three times four is 100,
that would be 120, so $289 and 120,
you'd be at about a $409 a month payment
if you don't put the money there.
So think of it that way.
Do you, are you just buying the lower payment
or can you afford not to put that $4,000 down
as I like to suggest to people?
Take whatever large amount of cash you were planning
on putting down on a lease,
put that into a separate savings account, okay,
that pays next to nothing, but it pays something,
put it into that separate savings account
and every month as you write the check
for that lease payment, instead of the $289
and it's now gonna be $409, take $120
out of that special savings account
and add it to the $289.
So bingo, bingo, bongo,
it's like you're drawing down on that $4,000 every month
as opposed to just forking it over.
Another one from Rude King here.
How does Toyota get away with TSRP instead of MSRP?
Because it's the same thing.
Toyota suggested retail price is the same
as a manufacturer suggested retail price.
They're just calling it their individual manufacturer's name.
It's the same thing.
It complies with the federal laws
around a Monroney label or a Windows sticker
and they have to list either the manufacturer
suggested retail price or in this case,
Toyota's manufacturer suggested retail prices
in lieu of it just being MSRP.
It is very confusing.
I'm not a fan of this and I think they should just
to have it be MSRP and not allow the manufacturers
to brand it as something else.
It creates confusion.
So I'm not a fan.
I didn't say I was a fan of it either.
I'm just saying it's the same damn thing.
Yep.
I'm losing my voice today.
From Tech in San Diego, I leased a new vehicle in 2024
but the manufacturer has made improvements to the vehicle
since then that I would prefer is it possible
to turn it in early and lease a newer model
without a penalty.
How does this work, Ed?
The best way to describe this is leases
are designed to go full term.
Okay.
So can you trade out of a lease early?
Yes.
The way they figure out a payoff on a lease
is sitting down, folks.
They take your remaining monthly payments
and they add them all together
and then there's a little bit of interest savings
that they subtract.
But basically you're gonna make all those payments
whether you trade it in early or not.
So I would think you're gonna find that to be
somewhat of a penalty.
Leases are designed to go full term.
Take the damn thing to the full term.
Then you can get the latest and greatest
that comes out then.
And it seems to me that the latest and greatest
is really important to you.
Maybe you might wanna consider a one year lease next time
as opposed to a two or three year lease
because every year the latest and greatest
is gonna come out.
What about this dad from Josh?
How about lease takeovers?
They're gaining popularity and they're a neat idea.
Any thoughts on this?
Yeah, there are companies out there
that will help someone who wants to get out of a lease,
find someone who can take it over for them.
I am not entirely familiar with the process
as to how it works and how they get the bank approval.
Sometimes you can go to the lease company yourself.
Your lease company that you're using
without using a third party source
and say I have found someone who is willing
to take over my lease.
I would like to, if their credit qualifies,
would you allow us to do that?
And then you would just have to provide
a credit application to the leasing company
and they can handle the paperwork
that would accomplish that.
David wants to know our take on
when manufacturers will make vehicles small again
so they'll fit in normal garages.
I don't think that's happening anytime soon.
No, I think it will be make American garages big again.
Or bigger.
Bigger, yeah.
Okay, I'm pretty sure when they were building
all those mansions,
they weren't building them with small garages.
So, yeah.
Unfortunately, that seems to be what's going on
from test accounting here.
Now, I'm considering selling my 2023 Mercedes-Benz GLA.
I would break even at around $26,000.
What do you forecast regarding the GLA Mercedes SUV?
This thing is getting expensive to maintain.
It's always been expensive to maintain.
This is the first thought that comes to mind for me.
Dad, I think Mercedes is struggling
to sell a lot of their entry-level vehicles.
I mean, they're struggling on both ends of the spectrum.
So, I imagine you could get a quote-on-quote deal,
like a dealer discount,
but I'm not necessarily gonna get back into another GLA
after realizing that owning a GLA is quite expensive.
I think I would go to CarEdge and under Research
and put in a Mercedes-Benz GLA
and see what that suggests the future holds
as far as future values for that fear.
And then Pops...
You gotta be so proud of me.
Oh, that was great.
Yeah, for me being the one to say that,
you know, I actually pay attention on these shows.
From the reminder, folks,
we do have our 20% off discount back at CarEdge.com,
CarEdge Insights and our car buying services,
clicking into car buying services.
We have negotiation expert
and the full car buying service.
We're able to help save folks tons of money,
tons of time.
You tell us what you want.
We search, we negotiate, we do the whole thing for you.
So please go check it out back at CarEdge.com
and take advantage of that.
And like my dad said, click on Research as well
and you can do your vehicle research here
back on CarEdge.com too.
All right, Dad, we're gonna switch gears.
Okay.
From David, what is the meaning of life?
The meaning of life is simply that life
is a roller coaster, okay?
That some days you're gonna go up
and some days you're gonna go down
and then in a few more days you'll go up again
and then you'll go down again
and then you're gonna get sick of it
and you're gonna go, why can't I just be happy?
Well, the meaning of life is
that you should spend your entire life
asking that question
and then the day you realize what the answer is
is the day you're gonna drop dead.
So stop worrying about the meaning of life.
Damn it, just live it.
All right, there you go, folks.
Oh, oh, oh, I've got it now.
Boom.
Who needs that?
I agree with this one right here
from Mini Happiness Comes From Inside.
I think that's the right answer.
The meaning of life is being happy with yourself,
being by yourself, being happy.
So anyway, that's a...
Whatever, yeah, you know, the meaning of life
is a different meaning for everyone.
That's a really good point, really, really good point.
Yeah.
All right, we got any other questions coming in?
Questions, folks, for today's Q&A
with Pops and I from CarEdge,
I'll fill a buster for just a second here
while we're waiting to see if any additional questions come in.
Dad, any questions for you,
bubbling up right now that you wanna ask?
What's for lunch?
What are you doing today?
You know, I just, I keep thinking to myself
that, you know, we do this every day.
And...
That we do.
Live?
That we do.
Yeah, we do this every day.
And I keep hoping and waiting for the industry to go,
it's time to modernize.
It's time to become customer-centric.
And not that I want the industry to put us out of business
because they're doing the right things,
but that would be nice.
Because, you know, at a certain point,
the people spending the money deserve
to have a pleasant time doing it.
And for most folks out there,
they will not rank buying a car up there
as one of their favorite things to do
or pleasant things to do.
Because for whatever reason,
most folks have a pretty miserable experience doing it.
And there are many in the industry that will suggest that,
well, we're seeing to it that people have a miserable time doing it
because we give them all kinds of bad advice,
you know, about getting me out the door price and this and that.
And, you know, I see all the...
Well, the reason we ask all the questions
is because, well, we don't want the customers to land on the wrong...
No, the reason you ask the questions
is so that you can maximize the profit
because your pay plan is set up for you to get paid more
for the more profit you make.
So, the important thing for consumers,
customers to remember
is the tools that we share with you.
We share with you based on the fact
that you have done your research.
What do I mean by that?
You have established the maximum price of vehicles
that can fit into what, for most people,
is their monthly budget.
So, we try to educate you well enough
so that if you know the max you can spend
to be at your monthly payment
is $35,000 for a car plus fees
that when the salesperson asks you all the questions
that they're going to ask you
and you're going to continue to say,
I just want the out-the-door price.
It has to be based on the fact that you know
that you can't suddenly start looking at $40,000
or $45,000 vehicles or even more expensive.
So, the education we're trying to share with you
is to set you up for success
because you understand your budget
prior to ever walking into a dealership.
And if you understand your budget prior to walking in
and you only limit yourself to looking at the vehicles
that would fit into that budget,
then yes, the way we try and tell you
to answer the questions is the appropriate way
to answer them because you are sticking
within the guidelines of what will work for you.
If you are not going to do that research,
then answering the questions we tell you
how to answer them is probably just going
to prolong your misery
because you haven't done the work beforehand.
Okay, you have to do the work beforehand
because the salespeople have done their work.
They know what they need to do.
They know what questions they need to ask.
They know what answers they need to get
so they can tailor all this together
to find a car for you that works,
that maximizes their profit
so that they can be happy and you might be happy.
But so it's just imperative that you really do the work
prior to ever going into a dealership
and answering the questions the way we suggest you answer them.
Not sure how we're going to top that, folks.
Again, my role in today's show is just to remind you
to take advantage of all the resources
we give you to do that work back at caredge.com.
Dad, I'm enjoying doing these more Q&A-oriented videos
we did leasing versus buying the other day
which is open-ended Q&A.
I think when you tune in on Monday, folks,
don't be surprised if we spend more time
just doing these more intimate question and answer shows.
I think it's quite fun.
I know there's some additional questions in the chat
that Appian said, Pops, let's call it a show for today.
Okay.
And let's plan to come back on Monday
and do it all over again.
Well, that's my plan.
Yeah, no, no, if there's one thing you can count on, folks,
when the clock strikes noon on Monday,
my ass will be in this chair
and I will be going, it's noon in Ventura City.
There's not much you can count on,
but God willing, and the ocean don't rise anymore.
You know, or actually, in my case, the bay,
I'll be here Monday doing it.
Okay, so yeah, you can count on that.
Take that to the bank, dammit.
All right, folks, we're back on Monday.
Enjoy the weekend.
Love you, Pops.
Love you too, handsome.
Thank you, everybody.
Have a great weekend.
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on batteries, brake pads and rotors,
cabin and engine air filters and wiper blades
at participating US GM dealers only.
Max rebate derives from collective rebates
on all eligible parts.
Visit buick.com slash service offers
or see dealer for full details.
Offer ends $228.26.
Multi-point vehicle inspections
vary by participating dealer.
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That's noblemobile.com
and use my code yang10 to get paid
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If you're the purchasing manager
at a manufacturing plant,
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That's why hands down,
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they've got safety well in hand.
Call 1-800-GRAINGER,
click Grainger.com or just stop by.
Grainger for the ones who get it done.
If you liked the show,
please take a moment to rate,
review and subscribe.
It really does help the show to grow.
Thank you for listening.
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