Cars Dealers Can't Sell So They Are REVOLTING | Episode 1050

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It's noon here in Ventner City, New Jersey,

and our nation's capital, Washington, D.C.,

and this is Core Edge Live for Monday, April 13th,

two days before taxes are due, and you're host today or me, right?

Here in Ventner and Zach, that good-looking young man in Washington.

How are you today, handsome?

I'm doing well, Dad. Happy Monday.

Thanks for taking the time to join me for another episode of Car Edge Live.

I love getting to hang out with you and doing this today's show, folks.

We're going to be talking about car dealers who can't sell cars,

and so you know what they're doing, Dad?

They're revolting.

It is crazy what's going on out there in the car market today.

But, Dad, let's start here.

Today's show is brought to you by CarEdge.com.

For those of you that are unfamiliar, we are on year six here, folks,

of me, my dad, and our incredible team offering car buying services back at CarEdge.com.

We take care of research, dealer outreach, and even negotiations.

We learn what matters to you.

Contact dealers, compare real offers,

and help you get the best deal without the stress.

You can learn more back at CarEdge.com.

Go ahead, Dad.

Now, he's just going to say, yes, you can learn more.

And we obviously have CarEdge.com slash Beta,

which is our new car search where we are encouraging everyone to check it out

and share their feedback.

So, go spend some time over on CarEdge.com slash Beta.

I just loaded the page.

So, you know, the cars will show up in a second there.

Dad, let's start things here.

That's why it's Beta.

That's why it's Beta, baby.

Let's start things here, pops.

Goal-low dealers protest pressure to, quote,

take more cars as inventory bloats and Q1 sales dive 32%.

We got dealers who can't sell cars

and now they're revolting against their manufacturer.

What the heck is going on here, Dad?

And help us all understand what it means for these dealers to be

protesting against the manufacturer.

Well, what it means is that as the factory reps call each dealer and say,

hey, I need you to take just 10 more cars this month,

dealers will turn around and say,

I've got more inventory than I know what to do with.

Just because you keep building them doesn't mean I have to keep taking them.

And that's the protest.

When manufacturers build too many cars,

when they bet wrong on what the market's going to do,

they only have one way to relieve themselves of those cars.

That's their dealer partners.

Partners in air quotes because they're not really partners.

But they build them, they don't retail them, they only wholesale them.

And they wholesale them to their dealer network.

And when sales are off 32%, inventories are growing.

And let's face it, most Volvos are not cheap.

So it means they're more expensive to floor plan

because dealers pay interest to carry their inventory.

The dealers tend to not want to take more of them.

And they're looking for the manufacturer, in this case, Volvo,

to do something that would help the dealers actually sell some of this inventory.

So, Deb, this is partly a Volvos story.

This is also more broadly, like for example,

we were going to talk about Volkswagen and Audi today.

This is like across all sorts of automakers.

This is the dynamic between a multi-tier sales process.

You have the automaker, then you have the franchise dealer.

They have conflict.

And they have conflict often.

You and I have talked about it, what was it maybe a year or two years ago?

Stellantis dealers refuse to take on more inventory from Stellantis

because they were so overwhelmed with new cars.

There's a floor plan carrying cost associated with holding onto cars that don't sell.

And this is actually, we will come back over to it for a second here.

Deb, I'm going to go over to the beta for a second here and let's pull it up on the screen.

I'm going to sort here.

I don't know.

Actually, I'm not even going to sort anything.

But this first Acura that shows up here, 53 days on the market.

This is a $64,000 Acura MDX A-Spec.

The manufacturer invoices that to the dealership, sells it to them at invoice price.

But then the dealership pays for that with typically financing.

Like explain floor plan here and why that's a dynamic in this

and partly why these Volvo dealers are protesting taking on more cars.

When the manufacturer invoices the vehicle to the dealer,

sends the dealer the invoice, the dealer pays for it then.

And then I pay for it with cash.

They pay for it with a finance company's money.

So dealerships set up lines of credit so that they can carry and pay for inventory.

Lines of credit could be $8 million, $10 million, $15 million, $20 million.

It depends on the size of the store.

But the cost of that money for a vehicle that sits gets expensive.

If you just figure that it costs, I don't know, $5 a day, $10 a day.

Say $10 a day.

That's $300 a month that the dealership is paying for each vehicle that's sitting there.

Now, manufacturers will cover what they call floor plan assistance,

where they will pay the dealer X amount of dollars

to help them defray the cost of carrying that inventory.

When inventory sells quickly, for instance, at a Toyota dealership,

floor plan assistance can actually become a profit center.

Because you're selling the cars quicker than the interest is building up.

So the amount that you collect as floor plan assistance is greater than your expense.

Well, the opposite applies when you can't sell the damn cars,

when there is no market for the damn cars.

And so as the floor plan assistance runs out from the manufacturer,

then it's on the dealer.

And instead of that being a profit center, it becomes an expense.

And it can become a huge expense if you're sitting on $8 million worth of inventory.

And it's costing you $300, $400 per car.

You might be stroking a check to the finance company for $100,000 or $150,000.

Well, that's hard to do if you're not selling anything.

I mean, it's cash flow.

You need the cash to flow in so it can then flow out.

And right now, for Volvo dealers, it's just flowing out.

Now, Dad, I want to do a little bit of a live experiment here,

because yes, Volvo was the key brand that we're honing in on this morning,

because that's what the article in Automotive News is about.

Volvo dealers have become very outspoken and are pushing back again

on taking and accepting more inventory from the manufacturer.

Well, here, Dad, I want to do an experiment.

I'm over on the CarEdge dealer ratings website,

and I've searched for Volvo dealers.

And I'm very interested here, Dad.

We'll click on this first one right here.

We've got a Fields Volvo of Northfield.

I want to do a different one.

Let me find a different one here, Dublin.

We'll go to Dublin, California.

Yeah, perfect.

Is that California or Ohio?

This is Dublin, California.

Okay, yeah.

But here's what I was interested in.

Sure, they've got a good grade and everything.

I love that.

I wanted to see the breakdown, Dad.

Wow, the days on market for their inventory.

This is fascinating.

I was expecting to see more and more of their inventory be aged 180 days or 90 days.

I mean, still 25% of them are 90 to 180 days,

but that's super interesting.

Let's look at one more Volvo dealer here.

Let's go to Manhattan.

Yeah, this is more like what I expected to see.

So these are aging.

This Volvo Manhattan, Dad, has 148 aging, 90 to 180 days,

sitting on the lot cars at their dealership right now.

This is an example.

This is not what you would see at a Toyota dealership, for instance.

And I've got it over here on the car search as well.

You can see this is back in my neck of the woods, Bethesda, Maryland.

179 days on the market, 117 days on the market, 60.

That's relatively new, 179, 161, 134.

This is what dealers are revolting against because it's hard to make money

when you've tied up so many thousands of dollars in floor plan expense.

Look at just this one in particular, Dad.

I mean, 180 days on the market and it's a $75,000 vehicle.

The dealer invoice is 67.

There's still so much that they're paying in floor plan assistance though.

Oh, absolutely.

It makes sense why the manufacturers are getting pushed back from the dealers.

Well, and if you're a Volvo dealer, you only have three vehicles to sell.

Okay, you know, not that their sedans sold well, but you don't have many more.

Tariffs took care of that.

They just made those vehicles way too expensive to continue to import.

So you have three vehicles to sell.

They're all SUVs of various sort of sizes.

If your customer wants something other than that,

well, you better be in the used car business because you're not in the new car business for them.

And most of their models are design-wise, eight to 10 years old.

But the thing is that this is not just a Volvo store.

This is a more broad auto industry story right now.

And the implications are what Volvo is saying.

Dealers pushing back saying, hey, no masks, no more.

Ultimately, what are the dealers going to have to do here, Dad?

They're going to have to become aggressive in the deals that they take.

They're not necessarily going to make money on the front end of the deal, more than likely.

The front end being gross profit from what the vehicle cost them to what they sold it for.

In many cases, there won't be gross profit.

There could be negative gross profit.

Yeah, they'll lose money.

The hope will be that they can mitigate some of those losses through profits that could be gained

through financing and leasing and selling protection packages back in the finance office.

And they have to hope that the service department can carry them

while they're going through all this.

And I can tell you from experience, watching inventory grow and then turning down allocations

for manufacturers and the phone calls that you get from your factory representative.

What are you doing?

You need, I need you to take these cars.

And I used to have conversations with my GM at the Acura store one year on.

I remember they just wanted to keep pushing more and more cars on us.

Well, we don't want to annoy our manufacturing partners.

And when I said to my GM, I said to Jenny, I said, let me ask you one silly question.

At the end of the year, when our profit and loss statement is read,

are they going to stroke a check and make us whole and at least break even?

And the answer to that was they were not.

Okay, they're partners in the sense that they're going to shove as much inventory down your throat

as they possibly can and as much as you allow them to.

But they're not going to make you a hole when you don't make any money.

So on the product, because it's not desirable anymore or it's overpriced.

So, yeah, dealers revolve.

I used to revolve.

I used to have arguments with my factory reps,

probably why so many of my factory reps didn't care for me.

But it's got to be good for both parties.

It can't just be a one way street where it's good for the manufacturer.

They keep building stuff.

They keep pushing it on the dealers, but they haven't created a market for it.

So, yeah, it's a revolve.

Absolutely.

Do you think, Dad, that this is going to continue to expand throughout the auto industry?

And I bring this up in the context of the other headline and automotive news this morning

is about Volkswagen, a brand that you and I have been talking about a lot.

And we have another story this morning from Stellantis,

where they did more layoffs that we'll get to in just a moment.

VW Audi sales fall again, signifying their deepening US struggle.

So, do you think that this revolt is going to be transcending just Volvo?

Again, it was what, maybe a year or two years ago,

we even had at that time some Stellantis Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram dealers join us

for shows talking about how they would no longer take on new inventory from their manufacturers.

Do you think this is going to transcend just Volvo?

And for example, happened with Volkswagen dealers, Audi dealers.

You and I track the fastest and slowest and most of these popular cars for sale in the United States.

And we know Volkswagen is racking up a lot of wins, but the wrong papers of wins,

the wins on the slowest selling side and worst selling side.

So, do you see this transcending and impacting other manufacturers that and other dealer groups?

Oh, absolutely. There is, as sales dry up, dealerships have to make a determination.

Are we going to keep buying their product that they're not supporting,

that they're not creating interest in or a demand for it?

Are we going to keep being the ultimate buyer of it instead of the customer?

And at a certain point, dealers and dealer groups will push back because it's not sustainable for

the dealers. And I know there's nobody out there crying tears over when dealers struggle.

But they employ a lot of people and so you need them to at least be able to break even

so they can pay their employees who can help keep the economy going.

The manufacturer isn't going to do it. So, yeah, dealers will take a stand.

And we saw it with Stellantis a couple of years ago where they just got so fed up

that they were turned down inventory and ultimately what happened? The CEO resigned,

got pushed out because he wasn't being responsive to what the dealers needed.

And so, the new people that come in, what do they do? They increase incentives.

They make it easier for the dealers to take crappy deals.

They pay dealers to help them out in order to relieve themselves of all that excess inventory.

And then once they get inventory levels back to where they should be,

then you can turn around and you can start looking at other ways to make money.

But right now, if you're an Audi dealer and Audi has been suffering for two or three years now,

VW has been suffering for four quarters now where they've had declines in sales for the last

four quarters. As a dealer, that's not a sustainable position to be in. And so,

you need to have those tough conversations with your factory people. And this is when it's important

that the factory dealers associations, where they have the dealer councils,

where they actually sit and listen to what the dealers are suggesting because the dealers

are the ones that are on the front line trying to create a market for something that nobody

wants at the moment. And they're the ones that are struggling to figure out a way to create some

value for the customer. Dear crew, it's Toyota. With an adult-sized third row, everyone's welcome

in the Grand Highlander. From sports fans to eco buffs and movie fans. Seen back in the Sienna

with an available rear seat entertainment system. Slip into the RAV4 with available all-wheel drive.

And let's go. Toyota, find yours at Toyota.com. Toyota, let's go places. No wonder Audi dealers

we anticipate will be revolting and rejecting inventory when you have situations like this.

You know, still 2025 sitting out there, 115 days on the market. I know that. Yeah,

you used to work right next to it, 86 days on the market, 120 days on the market.

These cars just are not selling. And that's been the theme for a while now. Now, what's

interesting is that's where the shopping opportunities are. So it's these brands that

are desperately trying to sell their vehicles. Again, if the news story you're hearing from

car edges, dealers are revolting, you know what that means? That means go talk to your local

Volvo dealer and they're going to be so happy you showed up. So, so happy you showed up.

They might even, they might even offer you a premium coffee instead of their regular crappy

customer coffee. Well, let's run through a few of the brands here, Dad, that we think have, you

know, real good negotiability right now. Real good buying power for consumers. Obviously,

Volvo's on that list. They will still include Volkswagen and Audi based on the conversation

we just had there. I would also continue to say that's the Lanthus vehicles. So Chrysler, Dodge,

Jeep, Ram, Ford is on this list as well. Ford still has tens of thousands. Let's do the check,

you and I do this all the time, but let's do the check here, Dad. Give me one second. Let me

pull it up on the screen. Let's see how many left over 2025 Ford F-150s are still out there. So we'll

go make as Ford. We'll go 150 here. We need to go nationwide. And then we need to come all the way

down here to year. And we want to say from 2025, whoops, nope, 2025. There we go. And we'll

go as far back as we want there. Sure. We still have that. You can see it up there.

12,798 says 2010 Ford F-150s, but from 2010 to 2025. We still have 13,000 left over Ford F-150s.

So yeah, sure. We have some A-rated dealers out there that are looking to get rid of them,

but they have all the incentives in the world to get rid of these trucks because they've been

sitting on them for 200 days, 184 days, 184 days, 401 days, 393 days. I mean, Dad, this is

clear as day. This is an example of a brand here that is in the same predicament as Volvo. So

there's a lot of brands out there, Dad. Well, and I don't know if we have the update as to a day

supply by Monday. Has it come out yet? Has it come out yet? It will come out this week.

Okay. And I think the day supply has allegedly dropped at 81 days nationally. So any brand that

is higher than 81 days is struggling. And those dealers that are sitting on that inventory with

the associated carrying costs are highly, I shouldn't say that, most dealers would be or

should be highly motivated to relieve themselves of that inventory. There are unfortunately still

any number of dealerships out there that haven't gotten the memo, that would rather just sit on

this inventory than figure out ways to make it disappear. And for those dealerships, I don't

understand that. As a new car manager at a dealership, you are responsible. The main

part of your job is inventory management, not just watching it grow. Okay. It's not inventory

growth. It's inventory management. It's to understand what your daily sales rate is per model

so that you can make adjustments as to how many of each model you're willing to accept when your

allocation each month. And dealers need to realize at a certain point, it's in your best interest to

manage your inventory rather than allow the manufacturer to do it for you because the manufacturer

will just keep shipping the inventory. And then every time your factory sales rep shows up, he's

going to sit down with you and go, well, what are you doing to move this aged inventory? Okay. Well,

I'll tell you what I'm going to do in the future. I'm going to turn down every one of your damn

allocations. Dealerships need to stand up to their manufacturers. They just do. And again,

when that happens, the signal for our community, because most of the people that tune into this

data are people thinking about buying cars, the signal for our community is when the dealers

are standing up to the manufacturer, that means they've had enough. They've had enough and that

means they realize that they need to liquidate these giant metal contraptions on their lot.

They need cash. They need money. And that's exactly what the situation is that Volvos,

and that's why you get a headline in Automotive News talking about the predicament there. But

it transcends just Volvos, Volkswagen, Audi, Ford, it's the Lantus. There are many brands right now,

dad, where dealers are not as happy as they were a year ago, six months ago. And that creates

shopping opportunities for customers. The last thing a dealer wants is his inventory to turn

into paperweight. It's holding down the asphalt. With all those cars sitting on the asphalt,

that asphalt just can't rise up into space all by itself. As a dealer, you need to stand up for

what's best for you. I am telling you, from all the years I did it, not once did I ever see a

manufacturer stroke us a check to make us whole if we lost money that year. They just don't do it.

I know when these situations arise, it's great for customers, but it's only great for customers

who want those brands that nobody seems to want. Yeah, but again, if you're a deal shopper,

deal hunter, that's where you gotta look for the opportunities. Deal hunter, I like that. That could

be a new channel. From ARC Photographer, thanks for the kind contribution. We appreciate it. What

happens to the cars if a dealership closes down? A Nissan dealership by my place closed down,

and I knew Nissan and others are struggling. So what happens, dad? What happens when a dealership

closes down? They have inventory. Give it back to the manufacturer. Okay, if a dealership closes

down, in many cases they close down because, well, they're out of trust. They can't pay you off the

vehicles that they have when they sell them. It ties back to our floor plan conversation. Going

out of trust means you're no longer making payments on your loans, on your credit line,

so it does come back full circle. Yeah, and when you sell a car and you have like three or four

days after you've sold it to pay off the existing line of credit on that particular car, if you

don't do that, and sometimes when dealers really go out of trust, they don't do it at all, and that's

when the lenders come in, and ultimately they start liquidating the business, and the manufacturers

will buy back the cars, and everybody will move on. But yeah, when a dealer has no money,

when a dealer has no cash flow, and I'm telling you, cash flow is what allows a business to operate,

when they don't have that, they're done. And so, yeah, when dealerships close down,

the manufacturers ultimately take back the inventory.

Now, let's answer Dale's question here. I think this is a great question.

Is 300 days on the lot with no mild change in 200 days? I'm guessing it hasn't been tested in 200

days. How much should you be asking off? So, Dad, you're the sales manager. You ran dealerships for

four decades. If you've got a car for 300 days and there's been no interest in it, what are you doing

if a customer comes in interested in it? Well, if I have aged cars like that, I have them up either

in the showroom or right next to the showroom. I have created special bonus programs for salespeople

to encourage them to sell those, at least show those cars. And then what are you doing on pricing?

What are you doing on pricing? I'll do whatever it takes if I have somebody that can fog a mirror.

Okay? I mean, if somebody is legitimately interested and they're ready to buy that there,

my job was not to screw that up. Okay? And so, every sales manager's job, when they have a customer

who comes in that's legitimate, that actually has the wherewithal and the ability to be able to buy

the car, your job as a sales manager is not to screw that up and still allow that to happen,

to figure out a way to make that happen. And if you're sitting on aged inventory,

you do whatever the hell it takes. You take whatever profit or loss that's acceptable to

you. I mean, there were times where we lost four and five thousand dollars on an aged unit that

make it go away. So, yeah, how much should you be asking? Well, if it's 10%, it's 15%. But you

have to understand what the market is. And so, it has to be a quasi reasonable offer that you're

making. You can't look at a $50,000 car and say to them, okay, I know it's been on your lot for

300 days and it hasn't been driven. So, I'll offer you $30,000. No, they're not going to do that.

They could take it to the auction and sell it for more than that. So, it has to be somewhat

reasonable. And how do you determine what's reasonable? See what others have been paying in

the area and then try and get it for a few bucks less than that. Yeah. So, obviously,

we have some of that data back on the website, caredge.com. But also, Dad, I think just using

a barometer of a percentage off based on how many days it's been there is a good approach.

If it's been there 300 days, asking for 10% off, not that big of a deal. Obviously, if it hasn't

been there for 300 days and it's been there for three days, good luck getting that 10% off. It's

just got different supply and different demand. Really, really, really good question there

from Dale. Dad, now I wanted to turn our attention to one other story. We'll spend more time on it

tomorrow. But one of the things propping up the car market right now is access to credit. And I

know you didn't get a chance to see this yet, but it is remarkable what's happening in the car

market right now to keep things moving, which is we have an index here that tracks credit

availability and it is skyrocketing in terms of credit availability. And the scariest thing, Dad,

is that auto loan approval rates are the highest they've been in a long time. They're up at 70.8%

and the share of subprime borrowers is up to almost 20% 19.5% at the same exact time.

The share of loan terms, the share of loans greater than 72 months actually went down just a

little bit to 28.8%. So, that's some good news. But negative equity skyrocketed. Almost 60%

of car shoppers had negative equity when they went to get their new auto loans. So, this is

one of the big pieces that really drives a lot of auto industry is just approving people. You

said it yourself, Faga Mir. Approving people for auto loans is one way to keep the lights on. And

this data shows that it's easier than ever before to get approved for an auto loan.

So, what you do when you have people who can't afford to buy vehicles is that you approve them

for loans that they can't really afford to pay back. And that's what you do. And that's what we

see happening. To keep the Murray go around going, we see banks suddenly being willing to

approve people who they might not have approved in the past. And they'll charge higher interest

rates to do that. And people will agree to it, even though they know that more than likely,

they can't really afford it. So, it's one of the reasons why we see reposed skyrocketing.

It's like this fictitious way to try and keep the market going when the market should be

contracting and not expanding. And the market is contracting. I mean,

they're selling less cars this year than they were last year. And with prices continuing to go up,

you would suspect that, well, we will continue to see less car sales month after month after

month. But for those who are interested, who will help keep this Murray go around going around,

we'll make it a little easier for you to get approved for that car loan that you really can't

afford. That's one of the big takeaways from today's. You can probably go out there and get

approved for an auto loan. Whether you should take it or not, your decision, you can most likely

get approved. One of the other things you should approve of, folks, is going to caredge.com.

Now, again, a friendly reminder, my dad and myself with our incredible team started this

company six years ago. We provide a car buying service that takes care of research, dealer

outreach, and even negotiation. We learn what matters to you, contact dealers, and compare

real offers. I encourage you to learn more about our car buying service. And I encourage you

to meet our team of expert concierges. You can click on anyone's profile and learn more about

their years of experience in the auto industry and their recent deals that they've been able to

provide for car edge customers. So go learn more back at caredge.com. I encourage you again to

take a peek at our car buying services. Dad, we'll be back tomorrow with more car edge live. I'm

excited for that. We should have some interesting data on the used car side of things tomorrow,

so stay tuned. And we appreciate everyone that tunes in. Thanks for spending some of your Monday

with us. We're going to be side by side tomorrow. It's going to be side by side. Yes, yes, tomorrow

and Wednesday. And Wednesday, yep. We'll be side by side for the next two days. So stay tuned.

Tune in, please. We'll be live from my dad's apartment together. Yes, yes, yes. We'll try

and make room for Zach at the table. Appreciate it. All right, Dad. I'll see you tomorrow. Love you.

Absolutely. Love you too, handsome. Have a great day, everybody.

Dear crew, it's Toyota with an adult sized third row. Everyone's welcome in the Grand Highlander,

from sports fans to eco buffs and movie fans. Seen back in the Sienna with an available rear

seat entertainment system. Slip into the RAV4 with available all wheel drive and let's go.

Toyota, find yours at Toyota.com. Toyota, let's go places.

If you liked the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe.

It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.

Cars Dealers Can't Sell So They Are REVOLTING | Episode 1050

About this episode

Progressive

Toyota

Sienna

CarEdge.com

dealer outreach

Volvo

dealers pay interest to carry their inventory

invoice price

floor plan assistance

profit center

CarEdge dealer ratings website

days on market

tariffs

service department

overpriced

create a market

Volkswagen

ultimate buyer of it instead of the customer

manufacturer isn't going to do it

VW

dealer councils

days on the market

Chrysler

Dodge

Jeep

Ram

inventory management

manufacturer stroke us a check to make us whole

aged cars

supply and demand

rear seat entertainment system

Request an Explanation

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