Cars That Need A Comeback (A-M), The Fourth Car, Minivan Peer Pressure | Episode 1,013

All

right, welcome back everybody to the

podcast. We have all of our normal

stuff, news, car debates, we've got some

good cool car conclusions we'll

hopefully get to this time. Your

questions, lots of stuff,

>> but the topic is so good.

>> The topic is really interesting. Yes,

>> we're going to talk about cars that

brand should bring bring back. It's a

deep deep rabbit hole because we could

go

>> we could go crazy

>> all the fun stuff in the past.

limiting ourselves to just one car from

one manufacturer, whether it's a dead

name plate or whatever the car was, even

if they still make it. I kind of left

myself, you know, but this this springs

out of the conversations we've had in

the last few podcasts. This has come

very organically out of the last few

podcasts because the last couple of

episodes, if you've seen them or heard

them, we've talked about brands bringing

back interesting cars, something between

the super hypercar and the SUV. Where is

the stuff in the middle? And then a lot

of discussions have come up. Be it

Prelude, be it uh Zcar, be it whatever.

We've we've caught up those cars that

are legendary name plates, but we as

enthusiasts want them to come back and

be a certain thing. So, you and I are

going to kind of run the gauntlet here.

>> Bring them back.

>> Today is uh car makers A through M. I

didn't cover all of them, but A through

M, we're going to kind of each pick a

car and go, okay, this name plate should

come back and be like this. It's very

exciting. I'm I'm very much looking

forward. It's going to be really good.

But before we get there, we should do

news, including people having problems

getting out of their Model Y.

>> Switching over here to a actually this

is a 2025 Model Y, but for the 2021

Model Y's, a 174,000 cars are being

recalled at least because parents can't

get to their children. They're locked in

the car because of these handles. So,

like we discussed last time, the light

bars on the front of EVs kind of

becoming a thing. Now, recessed flush

handles have also become a thing.

>> I mean, from an aerodynamic standpoint,

designers and aerodynamicists like that.

They like flush body sides, nothing

protruding.

>> It makes for a better coefficient of

drag. I do understand that. And it looks

better. It's just a graphic and then the

handle appears, but

>> you know what? We've also heard about

handles that are icing up. Handles can't

deploy.

>> True.

>> Because it's too cold or the motor wears

out or it's something something gets,

you know, stuck, jammed. So the more

stuff that we have on our cars,

especially door handles that you should

be able to get in your car.

>> Well, but what what you're speaking to

here, what you're speaking to here, and

it's not just a Tesla problem, even

though Teslas are being recalled for.

These are solenoid handles.

>> So when you do something, electronics

are getting a signal and the electronics

are unlatching the door.

>> Yeah.

>> Now, you're required by regulations. You

can see it in a Corvette C8. Yes.

Exactly. Which is ridiculous. Entry by

wire. But you can see you're required by

law to have a mechanical backup to

release the door from the inside. But

what's interesting about this is that in

some cases what apparently is happening

and I have not seen an official report

from an actual person has happened to.

But this is what we're we're hearing

reported.

>> Parents getting out of the car, closing

their door now not able to get back into

the car. The child in the car can't get

to or doesn't know where to get to the

mechanical backup. So, you're standing

outside your car and in some cases

parents have broken the windows. Now,

it's not like, please don't get me

wrong, I'm not saying it's happened to

thousands of parents. This is like a

handful of people, okay? Saying Tesla's

with shattered windows all over the

place.

>> It's really weird. So, it's it's a

handful of people. So, it's not like but

but they were calling all of them to try

to solve this. But I I'm going to ask a

a weird question. What's wrong with

doors? Can't they just be a mechanical

thing? A knob, a latch, you pull it, and

the lock moves? Is this has existed

forever? Is this in the same category as

buttons then? Buttons coming back to the

interiors and design bosses including

Mercedes design boss actually admitting

buttons. Yeah, they're better and

Volkswagen has tacitly approved buttons

coming back to the interiors. Does this

mean it's the C change back to door

handles? Well, but but I've joked before

that apparently Elon Musk uh somewhere

in his past life was was somehow scarred

by doors because he just keeps wanting

to reinvent the door so he never has to

touch a door ever again.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. True. I don't know what the

problem is, but like you sit in the car

and it closes the door. You turn off the

car or you stop the car and the door

opens. He doesn't want to touch it. He

doesn't want to have a handle. I don't

understand what the problem was with I

turned the knob or I pulled the latch

and mechanics worked and the door opened

or closed. I don't see why that was an

issue. But I I get the recessed thing.

The recessed thing is cool if it works.

Now, like on my Amir, that is still an

it's still an actual handle.

>> In warm weather, it works.

>> You you push on one end and the other

side pops open. But yes, if you are a

place that gets sheet ice, you're not

getting your car this morning. You're

going to be out there with the kettle.

Your door handle got lake affected.

>> Yes, it did. That's terrible. Anyway,

frozen shut. We'll see where this goes.

I mean, I don't think Tesla's alone on

these door problems, but they're the

ones that got recalled for it.

>> Yeah, for sure. There's more news that

is a little bit personal for me and it's

in regards to Nissan because they are

restructuring as you know they're

closing their design studios. Well, two

of them at least. This is design work

done by Nissan Design fairly recently.

>> Mhm.

>> It's polarizing.

>> Ah, it's a it's a style. It's a choice.

Let's say it's a choice. Well, this

snowplow new concept of the GTR

>> very kind

>> designed for gamers. It was designed it

does look like it belongs in a video

game or a movie or something like that.

And I understand that that is the

sentiment, but this actually was

revealed in 2003. And you can already

see that it looks a little tired and

old. This style is already a little bit

played out. And so, even though I

understand that Nissan is exploring new

design language, I haven't seen any new

fresh designs. The Nissan Leaf has just

come out, but that is a very safe play.

>> Super safe. Yes.

>> They haven't really pushed on a new look

for Nissan, a new corporate look because

as of the new CEO and finally we're

restructuring. No, there's not going to

be any partnerships. We're on our own

and you know, we've got to reset the bar

and we need customers back. I haven't

really seen too much from Nissan. Their

CEO of design, Alfonso Albza, we have

invited many times to call into the

show. We want Nissan to make him

available because uh I I think it'd be

interesting to to really understand of

any design head. I would like to hear

from Nissan just what do you got for us?

What's coming? There's so much

enthusiasm for the Nissan brand. True.

It's it's just dormant right now. But

when you put out polarizing designs like

this,

>> it's hard to really get excited. And so

>> the Nissan Design Studio in San Diego is

actually one of the ones that is being

closed. And I was there so many times as

I worked for Autodesk because I was a

subject matter expert in the automotive

industry. And so I called on Nissan

quite a bit, visited the San Diego

studio. Many of my colleagues, I know a

lot of people at the studio. It's a

bummer because they'll lose their jobs

or they're going to have to move. It's

my understanding the Nissan's largest

design studios in China and also others

around the world are more prolific than

the San Diego studio, which put a

spotlight on them. It's also very

specifically built for car design,

meaning open courtyards to view cars on

turntables in the light.

>> It's got an entire color and materials

library and separate section of the

building. The middle of the building is

beautiful and open. So my question is

somebody who buys that building,

>> I think a maybe a really cool

restaurant, but it'd be way too big.

It'd be like four or five restaurants

>> or a boutique hotel, something like

that. But the building doesn't lend

itself because it's one story low and

level. The whole thing says go away. We

don't want prying eyes. Unlike most

hotel architecture which is look at our

beautiful building.

>> So I don't know what company would buy

that. And because the the entrance is

hidden, it's small. It's designed to,

you know, be secure, a secure design

facility.

>> So what do you do with this building?

They've got to unload real estate now.

And then people are losing their jobs,

which is quite a bummer. But I want to

see beautiful stuff coming from Nissan.

It almost doesn't matter to me what's

going on with the studios and what

buildings are closing and opening and

where the locations are. Even though San

Diego and the surf culture and the kind

of cool, fun California culture should

spawn great designs. I just don't see

that reflected in these designs.

>> Well, these designs you're showing and

and this whole discussion takes a weird

turn in my mind. And you're talking

about design in California. And the

reality is we notice this anytime we fly

from Utah to California. California has

very specific light. It's very pleasing

light. Yes.

>> And so and different places in in the

world. Like when we shoot in Utah, cars

look differently in sunlight than they

do shot in Southern California.

>> And there's lots of people that love to

cinematographers that love to shoot in

the Middle East because there's a

specific light in the Middle East that

you can't get elsewhere. So there there

is an interesting thing about California

light and design. But the thing I think

is interesting is this is on the backs

of Nissan talking about firing. Let's

just be honest. as many as 20,000

employees. Now, think about the scale of

a company that can absorb firing 20,000

employees. Most of the companies in the

world don't have 20,000 employees, and

Nissan's thinking about cutting that

many. So, of course, design has got to

be on the chopping block as well. But

the the most interesting part of the

article that you and I read about this

was the comment that Nissan's design

office in Shanghai is more productive

than its counterpart around counterparts

around the world producing designs with

a 30 to 40% reduction in hours. What

you've told me right there is we're

doing it with AI. What you've told me is

we are cranking out designs with AI with

no people involved. We are just

iterating tons and tons of options with

AI for some executive to go that's good

enough. And these designs you've shown

here on pictures. They all have kind of

an AI iterative look about them that

doesn't feel like anybody sat down and

went I've got an idea. Let me actually

be a human and design something. Yes,

you can crank out a lot more designs if

the computer is doing it for you, but

you're never going to get something. I

don't think that just stops people in

their tracks as like that's gorgeous.

And there's all kinds of arguments and

opinions with designers in any industry

about using AI because of what it draws

on. There's also using it as simply

another tool like a paintbrush, like a

pencil. You employing it as a tool.

You're you're sending it off in a

direction that you set and do iterations

for me.

>> That's different. But the biggest lesson

I learned as a designer in my career

from Richard Hullbrook, and this was

relating to furniture, is that most CEOs

when they hire an outside design firm,

>> you hire the designer for their

expertise.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And many CEOs, it's up to them to make

the decision and design managers to make

the decision in any industry, cars,

furniture, doesn't matter. But many

times they've hired the design team and

sometimes they don't know what they're

looking at. And so they'll say, "Well, I

like concept A, but I like a little bit

from C, and that thing from B is cool.

So, could you add that plus that?" And

like, let's kind of make a mish mash,

which is what AI is already doing.

>> But Richard always said, I presented the

CEO with one design.

>> You've paid me as a professional to

redesign the object that you want to

meet a market price, to sell in volume,

to increase your sales, to make money

for you.

>> Here it is.

>> Interesting. hired me to design the

thing.

>> This is what I've done for you after all

of my research and expertise.

>> This is what I think your solution is.

>> Instead of

>> tons of iteration and a lot of managers

and everybody has an opinion. Well, I

like a little bit of that. I like a

little bit of that and that's kind of

cool. Could we add that plus that? And

>> it happens like crazy. Yeah.

>> In any industry, I'm sure that happens

in writing when rewrites happen. I like

a little bit of that part. could we pull

some of that in and mish mash and well

that didn't make it better. It's just a

bunch of opinions alto together. So when

it comes down to one person

>> I'm not seeing that in Nissan corporate

design. I'm not seeing that. We haven't

really seen bold new stuff from Nissan

since these designs came out in 2023.

>> Be very interesting to see how all this

plays out. It isn't a piece of good

news, but I'm very curious to know where

it goes for sure. Maybe we need to

shutter all these design studios just to

>> just let AI do it. Just let that That's

really the answer. I mean, honestly,

this podcast before long will just be

you and I and AI and we're done. Yeah,

that's what we're going to do.

>> How do you know it's already done?

>> I mean, exactly true.

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We'll move on to our topic Tuesday and

again this is cars that brands should

bring back and it's those cars that we

as enthusiasts or we as people that that

have love for these name plates would

like to see return. And I I'm on two

sides of this equation, okay? because

I'm trying on one level to be a little

bit realistic. I'm aware of the fact

that the super small volume internal

combustion engine car made to be only

one thing by one manufacturer, that's

remarkably rare. Now,

>> cars are coming into existence because

of collaboration.

>> Cars are hybrid because there's emission

standards.

>> I'm aware of the fact that that we can't

just go, well, here's my perfect version

from a world of 1990. Sure. Okay. That

there there's not. Now, some of some of

mine are more pie in the sky and like

it'd be awesome if they do this and they

can't. And some of mine are more

realistic, but I've got

>> multiple hybrids in my dreaming. I've

got multiple collaborations in my

dreaming because I'm trying to think of

>> how could this actually come into being

on a lot of these.

>> Not just, hey, it was cool. Let's bring

it back.

>> Bring the same thing back and just

>> Yeah. It's not like I want another uh

MarkV Supra with a 2JZ. Great. It's not

happening. It's not happening. So, I'm

I'm trying to be a little bit realistic,

even though there's plenty of dreaming

here. We are theoretically going

alphabetical from A through M on this

podcast, which means we'll do the rest

of them on our next podcast, but we're

not necessarily covering every brand.

Did you do Acura? Cuz I did.

>> I did Acura. And I'm like you. I really

tried to filter it. You've got a good

idea about trying to come up with

collaborations. I was just trying to

think of the technology available or

cars that current cars that have a piece

of technology that could be used to

bring an old model back, but ultimately

it's got to go through the filter of

what I think will sell.

>> Car companies

>> still obviously need to sell cars to

make a profit, but cars are so

emotional.

>> Yep. Yep. They need to fit all of your

of your needs. But enthusiast fun cars

still have a lot of the emotional

component to them that makes people buy

them even though it's not quite

practical enough or it's not quite

>> good for the family or or whatever it

but it fills an emotional fun to drive

need that's still very much valid. But

ultimately it still has to come down to

>> a company has to make money. If this

were to come back,

>> yes,

>> we can't just bring a car back just

because.

>> Well, and also there has to be how do we

figure out the R&D? How do we figure out

the building? That's where I see a lot

of the collaborations happening because

then we can just amvertise out the cost

and it's not hurting either one of us. I

mean, that's something that happens as

well. Look at that with the Z4 and the

Supra

>> or Toyota's done this a lot obviously

the GR86 and the BRZ. I mean, that's

splitting cost, doubling product, and

making it not hurt anybody as much. And

then we get those cars.

>> My list is actually fairly long, but

>> mine is fairly long, but I'll try to go

fast.

>> I skipped quite a few. Yeah, keep going.

>> All right, so let's start off with

Acura. And I did choose the NSX, but

solely for the reason of being a

technology showcase. And manufacturers

in the future will need to have vehicles

where they're trying things, but they're

so aspirational that the early adopters

that want it will still justify sales.

>> Okay. Okay. for tech showcase, for

whatever whatever Acura is going to do,

for all-wheel drive, for hybrid

technology, for something that still

says sporty, fun to drive, but high-end

luxury. I feel like the NSX at some

level

>> is still valid to exist.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> It's still going to be expensive.

>> I also struggled with this because of

the latency between the first and second

generations

>> and what Acura did to tease everybody,

tease everybody, tease everybody. Well,

that one, that prototype burned down by

the side of the ring, that one didn't

work. Oh, we had to change everything

and then 10 years later after you talked

about it, finally we get one. And I

think the market had died before it even

hit the market. I for the second

generation.

>> The other problem is that people

expected it to be I I don't know another

way to put it. They expected it to be my

Amira.

>> They expected to be roughly 3,000 lb

rear wheel drive, mid-engine, and manual

transmission. And it came out much

closer to the Porsche 918 for a tenth of

the price than it did the original NSX

by being all-wheel drive and having

hybrid tech and all of the things that

it did that were incredible

technology-wise,

but we were so and and I I'm in the

group. We were focused on it being

something that it wasn't.

>> And I actually wonder about the the NSX

because I have it on my list, too. I

actually wonder, we all look fondly on

the original NSX. Yeah.

>> When it first dropped,

>> it wasn't instantly embraced. There were

those people that bought it. There was

the Senna stories and all that kind of

stuff, but it was like, what is this

now? And I think it took a little while

and certainly upon reflection now for it

to become an icon. Originally, it was

like a you you bought a what Acura's

doing which why would you do that

instead of a Ferrari?

>> You would have to justify it because

it's not quite the Ferrari. It's not for

our money, but it runs like a Honda

Accord.

>> Exactly. The people that bought it were

the outliers, and it wasn't instantly

embraced. I think we look at it as it

was perfect in its time. It was great,

but I think people warmed to it. And I

actually think the second gen is having

the same experience. I think in five or

10 years when these would come down in

price, I think we're going to look at

back on these second gen NSXs with a lot

more fondness than when they came out.

Mhm.

>> And I would be fascinated to see my my

pitch on the NSX is close to the Amir,

meaning available with a manual.

>> Okay.

>> But I think it looks like a more modern

R8.

>> All-wheel drive, cuz that's an Acura

thing.

>> Sure.

>> Honda's done it before. So, we need to

have hybrids with a manual. All-wheel

drive, hybrid, manual. It is kind of

what the second gen NSX was

>> with what the R8 is. Mhm.

>> And I think that as an NSX, especially

with a manual, could be compelling to

people

>> and that would again, it' probably be

$150 plus thousand car, but that's the

reality of where the NSX drops. But I

think they have to come a little bit

away from cutting edge technology. I

think they have to back off a little and

let some other brands be ahead of them

because I think that's what people want

from the NSX more than what they got for

the second gen. A little bit more old

school, a little bit more known

quantity. I guess. Yeah. But the wrong

term, but if it was, but seriously, if

they if they could crack all-wheel drive

like the R8,

>> but hybrid and manual,

>> nobody's really doing that.

>> That would be and and you know,

>> in a hyperarish. And the general

discussion is hybrids can't be manuals.

But I I point you back right back to the

Insight and the CRZ, both of which were

Honda products,

>> manual hybrids.

>> So, they've actually sold cars that way.

cuz I I'm with you 100% because I also

still see this as Honda doesn't have

necessarily a flagship and this was also

known as the Honda NSX and so for

>> technology showcase as uh we're we're

trying things we're not working out the

bugs obviously it's got to be sold with

a warranty but

>> hopefully yes

>> they're trying to do the trickle down

effect to other cars whether it's an SUV

whether it's a truck whe whatever that

is and use this as sort of the tip of

the spear much like what I had heard

from Polestar that I had such high hopes

for Polestar. They've gone full EV and

>> I think they're actually really good and

and a an excellent Tesla competitor.

>> Yeah.

>> I just still saw them as a higherend

rather than more of a something for

everyone kind of brand because it was

described to me as tip of the spear for

technology. And the very very first

Polestar one was $150,000. And I I saw

it going in that direction and I

embraced that. That's where I see this

kind of fitting in as well. But I do

take your point. and it still has to

sell and enthusiasts want to buy them.

>> That's where the the the legacy is of

the brand for sure. Yeah.

>> All right. Moving on to Aston Martin

quickly and

>> Oh, good for you.

>> Aston Martin is doing quite well.

>> They are.

>> I think they are offering excellent cars

for what the Aston brand should be.

>> Okay.

>> But what I do like is the DB5 and that

does hearken back to the continuation

cars that they're currently building.

But I think this is a 63 model shown on

screen here. It's a beautiful shade of

blue that I haven't seen. Every time I

see a DB5, it's always silver. Bond

silver. Yeah.

>> So, I like the DB5, but something maybe

uh not quite as on edge or as powerful

as the Vantage has become, but a little

bit more of a softer GT. Something that

is just, you know, an enjoyable, fun

cruiser.

>> Are you envisioning a down market from

the Vantage?

>> Down market place. And I just use this

as simply for styling purposes. Just a

classic, beautiful Aston shape.

>> Kind of the vantage, you know, vantage

light or something like that. Bring back

the DB. Everything is vword these days,

but bring back the DB as a lower lower

market kind of thing, more accessible.

And you know, leave the Valkyries and

the Valhalla to the crazy.

>> Somebody has just a V, one of those V

encyclopedias on their desk at Aston and

just goes, "What word have we used?"

>> For Audi, moving on here. And this is

the 2010 Audi Quattro Concept showing on

screen. It's it's in white. And I got

really excited when we saw this at the

LA Auto Show back in 2010, if you can

believe it's been that long.

>> Wow. It is amazing.

>> It's the Audi Quattro. Just bring back

the Quattro and call it the Quattro and

that's it. And put all your mojo into

this. Doesn't have to be the TT. This

can be 50 60,000 somewhere in there.

Again, good technology showcase. It's

not the flagship, but it's just

something accessible. I was so excited.

I love the styling.

>> It doesn't quite look outdated yet, but

Audi has moved on from this visual

design language at this point. But I

thought this was superb. I had high

hopes. It even looked somewhat

production ready. And no, they never

built the Quattro. So, I would highly

choose Quattro for this one. Uh I I

still really love the the design

language. It's just it really suits the

name Quattro and what we associate it

with Group Ball.

>> See that?

>> Moving on to BMW for me. And I've got an

interesting idea for you.

>> Okay.

>> Showing a Z8 on screen. Okay.

>> That's because I want more GT cars in

the market. This might be a personal

thing that might not sell too well, but

BMWs are known for building cars that

are built in small quantities.

>> Well, and then they make a hyper niche

of that. It'll be like they'll make a GT

car, then they make a GT car with a

one-seater cuz five people want to buy

them. I don't know what's up.

>> So, my idea for bringing the Z4 back

because I really like the Noya class

design language that we're starting to

see with all and that's going to go

across all EVs and gas powered cars from

BMW. If that were combined with the new

M5 hybrid V8 powertrain.

>> Interesting. Okay.

>> Now, I want to keep the Z8 small. The M5

is a large car and it's a big V8 with a

large battery and a lot of hybrid stuff

in it. And I'm not saying make it

all-wheel drive, make it rear wheel

drive. BMW might build a new Z8 that

doesn't have actually room for humans in

it. So, they might be able to pull it

off. It's a small car. We did it.

>> It's entirely remote. Yes. We you can't

drive it, but we did it.

>> Look at us. Yay.

>> That's my idea. If BMW could pull this

off with this amount of power in a new

Z8, small form factor, rear wheel drive

only, this 7 what 17 horsepower hybrid

V8 powertrain twin turboad in a new Z8.

I think that would be very highly sought

after in the market.

>> Moving on to Chevrolet. And I know this

is not a sports car. I'm showing the K5

Blazer on screen. This particular build

was done by Ring Brothers. It is called

the Bully.

>> Mhm.

>> And it is an incredible example. I mean,

they've gone overboard with this as Ring

Brothers does.

>> But my idea for the Chevy K5 Blazer,

let's bring that back in in it all of

its boxy goodness.

>> Sure. Sure.

>> Ford's had a go.

>> Yep. Yep.

>> Ram's been doing it for sure.

>> Everybody's been doing the boxy thing.

Bring that back.

>> Scouts coming back.

>> Yes. Scout.

>> I mean, come on.

>> The Blazer, it needs more respect behind

the name because just another SUV these

days. gas or EV, it just doesn't do the

Blazer name

>> just a you've thought this for a while

and I totally agree with you. Yeah,

>> Corvette has the ZR1X.

>> Yeah,

>> that engine.

>> Mhm. Okay. All right. Yeah.

>> Inside.

>> Okay.

>> A new Boxy Blazer.

>> Wow. All right.

>> To take it to the Raptor R.

>> Yeah, for sure.

>> And the TRX. Anything.

>> And the Bronco R, too. Yeah.

>> Yeah. The Bronco R. All of that.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. Maybe that's too far. Maybe that's

too much power. We could back it off to

some of their crate motors. So, how

about the LT4, which is the Camaro ZL1,

I believe, engine. The LT4 engine that

is also in the Cadillac Blackwing CT5V.

>> Let's do that's still 660 plus

horsepower.

>> It'd be enough to off-road with. Yeah,

>> you the car would move under its own

power with that engine. So, let's drop

the LT4 Cadillac Blackwing engine in

this. make an awesome boxy new cool

blazer that maybe just

>> you don't even have to call it the K5

Blazer cuz Kia will get upset and send

you a nasty letter because of the K5,

>> but they could just call it the Blazer

cuz they have that. They've just watered

it down and made it an SUV. Yeah,

>> this is, in my opinion, still an

enthusiast vehicle. It's just off-road

fun, but they've got incredible

powertrains, incredible engines, crate

motors. Pick a crate motor and drop it

in this thing. I don't care. What if it

had the ultimate? Then Chevy would be on

top. The ZR1X engine is in the Blazer.

>> Sure. Minds would melt. Even the Z06

flat plane in that thing would be

amazing. Can you imagine the sound of

that coming out of a Blazer? It' be like

when they did the uh LM2 for Lamborghini

where it's like, why does that sound

that way? And it's a truck.

>> Yes,

>> that kind of thing. I get it. Love it.

>> This is my idea. My goals for Chevy. And

moving on to Dodge. You are all going to

laugh at me because I am showing the

1984 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z on screen,

>> but it's actually the Matchbox.

>> You're showing the Matchbox version.

Yes. Uh-huh.

>> The reason is is because the Matchbox

looked better than the actual car.

>> Well, you know,

>> when the model looks better than the

real thing, you know you've got a

problem.

>> Yeah.

>> But this car left such an impression on

me because I got a ride from a family

friend who got his new Dodge Daytona

Turbo and I didn't know what turbos

were.

>> Sure. And my mind was blown when the

turbos kicked in, even though it was

like

>> it still 110 horsepower, something

>> anemic and weak.

>> I'm not saying the Charger Daytona,

nothing. It's just Dodge Daytona. And by

doing this, they can lean on a smaller

form factor. They can use a smaller

engine. It's not the Charger Challenger

big bloated whatever they've become.

It's just the Dodge Daytona. An

enthusiast fun sports car. Even kind of

looks like a 928 a little bit, but

doesn't have to be GT car, but something

cool, fun, lightweight, turbocharged

from Dodge, and then they still have the

bloated Charger Challenger, whatever

they're going to do.

>> For them for sure. I like it.

>> So, this is this is the Matchbox version

of that.

>> Moving on to Ferrari. I am touching

briefly

>> on the 246 Dino. This car is simple and

light.

>> Oh, yeah. And that would allow them to

drop a non-hybrid V6 with manual

>> and make it accessible to to

enthusiasts. This would still be a

200,000 plus Ferrari.

But this would be the full entry

levelvel lightweight small the tiny and

truly call it the dino. Yeah. What if

they could do it at a like 150 grand

start?

>> That's interesting.

>> And you know at Ferrari that means the

minute you put anything on it be 200

grand. But 150 grand start would be

really compelling.

>> V6 turbo still have a lot of power,

manual transmission,

>> beautiful, clean, styling, lightweight,

interesting. That's how you make

Ferraris lighter.

>> I thought the 296 GTS and GTB were going

to be the Dino. Everybody talked about

the second coming of the Dino,

>> and it wasn't. Bring the actual Call it

the Dino.

>> Yeah. Okay.

>> It's a cool car.

>> Yep.

>> All right. Moving on to Honda. Yes.

S2000. This is the 2008, I believe, CR

version that you're seeing on screen in

a lovely shade of yellow.

>> Yes, these are cool. Yes, Honda needs to

bring it back. It's got to be a sports

car. Honda is really good at doing this.

>> They're good at hybrids. They've got

some technology, but they're it's not

like they're Toyota and they're known

for Wow, we've really got our Prius

equivalent. I I suppose the CRZ,

>> you know, hyper mile cars. They've got

But the CRZ and the Insight were both I

have to hit it again. They were hybrids

with manuals. It's doable. It do. They

could do something like we talked about.

This is the next step up from Prelude. I

don't care what you call it anymore, but

something roadster rear wheel drive.

It's got to be this.

>> And the Hyundai Veloster N I've got on

screen. Even though that was recently

discontinued, I feel like this still had

legs in the marketplace. I feel like

people were just beginning to discover

it and Hyundai whacked it off at the

knees. Chopped it. Done. We're good. Add

the door. So, it's now four doors. So,

people are like,

>> "It's only three.

>> I don't get it. Make it four. Make it so

people can accept it and relate to it.

>> And make it a little bit more waggy.

Just slightly. Not too much bigger, but

just All right.

>> People are kind of wanting wagons. Many

people have written into the show.

They're wanting wagons. They want kind

of

>> some more wagon hatchish. Another option

in there.

>> I love hatchish cuz we do it a lot.

>> Something in there with you. Yeah.

>> The Veloster. It's a cool, fun, quirky

name. Whatever you do, quirky, I I don't

care. But continue on with the Veloster.

And moving quickly to Infiniti.

>> This is the project 9 here that I'm

showing on screen. It looks like an old

indie car.

>> It looks like an open wheel indie car

from back in the 30s.

>> Yep.

>> And I thought this was the most

compelling design that I've ever seen

from Infiniti because I don't want

actually anything from Infiniti to come

back except for this concept that they

explored. But if they did this car, that

would set Infiniti apart

>> as a boutique manufacturer. Also, maybe

a technology showcase for Nissan, that

would set the brand apart and make

people want to buy these that aren't the

supercar hybrid or just crazy hypercar

kind of stuff. The Bugattis and the Koix

eggs that exists, but this is

interesting. A single seat,

>> beautiful styling, open wheel car.

>> I find caterum.

I don't know

>> on a luxury high-end with lots of power

level.

>> Yeah. Okay.

>> That sounds compelling.

>> Okay. All right.

>> And moving on to Jaguar.

>> The one that I actually really like is

the XKSS.

And I'm showing a 2017 continuation car.

This is the SS, as you know, was the

Roadster version or the roadgoing

version of the type DT type race car.

>> And those are worth so much money.

>> So much. So, they've got a few of these,

handful of these continuation cars,

which I thought are superbly beautiful,

lightweight, fun, doesn't have to be too

expensive. Jaguar is kind of wanting to

be in more the luxury high-end level.

It's not what I'm saying here.

>> Whatever it is like they're doing over

there, Jaguar. Yeah.

>> Nobody's sure. Nobody can explain it.

>> We're all very confused.

>> So, XKSS needs to return lightweight

midenine. Beautiful. Something like

that. I mean, this is pretty much front

mid engine here, but yeah, something

really intriguing, compelling. I would

love to see the XKSS.

>> That would be very cool.

>> Jeep, you're doing great. Keep making

the Wrangler. We're good.

>> Everybody just thanks Wrangler. We're

moving on. That's very good.

>> Uh, you'll notice that I'm going

straight to Lamborghini because uh

Lincoln, there's nothing to see here.

>> There's nothing to see there, sadly.

Yes.

>> So, Lamborghini, if you brought the

mirror back,

>> if Okay. All right. All right. showing.

Well, this is the SV here from 71 and

this is the 6800.

>> Pretty car. This would revolutionize

Lamborghini styling for the better, I

think, if they used this as visual

reference and then brought into the

modern age with

>> maybe a few fewer creases of less

openings

>> possibly. Yes. Uh-huh.

>> Would be interesting, compelling. If you

could figure out how to turn that V12

sideways like this, I would welcome

that. But it doesn't necessarily have to

be. But engine behind you, a V8 behind

you, bring the Mera name back.

>> Mhm.

>> I think that would do well for

Lamborghini and people line up

>> like it car.

>> Lotus I touched on briefly because

there's many models that we could say

bring back. Lotus has been doing great

in my opinion for the lineup of cars

through history. The fun lightweight

sports cars

>> they've had. Yeah, they've stumbled

along and made great cars in spite of

it. Yeah,

>> you're right.

>> I mean, I hate to say it, but it's true.

>> You're right. That's the case now as

well, unfortunately.

>> The 340R from the year 2000, though

intrigues the daylights out of me.

>> Interesting. Okay.

>> No doors, F1 inspired rear wing. And the

wheels, they have little uh little tiny

fenders, little cycle fenders, but

they're exterior. They're they're not

part of the fender flares.

>> It's almost like the Lotus Aerial Atom.

>> It really is. This intrigued me. Why

can't we do more of these? Probably

because

>> safety or something.

>> Probably possibly. Yeah,

>> whatever. Moving on quickly to Maserati.

And

>> we covered Maserati. Look at you. I love

Maserati needs to bring back the Bora

that is shown on screen here or the

Moroc. They were very similar. They did

share some some components is my

understanding. But I love the form

factor of these.

>> And man, if you

>> It's like a hatchback supercar kind of

thing.

>> It really is. I think that could be

Maserati's sweet spot here.

>> So the Morocc something in there and use

that Nuno V6 again. Yeah, that that

engine's pretty cool.

>> We got the MC20. The styling, what this

could evoke could be really interesting.

Make it even smaller. You see a theme

smaller everything we need to do from

here on out. RX7 with a non-rot. We've

got a nice inline 6 from Mazda now.

>> Yes, we do. Yes, we do.

>> Hello, new Yep.

>> As cool as rotaries are, I think that

would prevent people from buying the car

>> in some cases. Yes.

>> But if it were the new inline 6

>> or a hybrid of some sort,

>> Yep. Make the RX7 again. That long hood.

Make it It's like a threequarter sized

car.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Superb to drive.

>> And then finally, McLaren, you're good.

You're doing good. Maybe the F1, but

you're doing good. You've got so much

choice. And

>> they're doing all right. Yeah. McLaren's

They'll be fine. What else do we not

worried about McLaren?

>> F1. I guess bring the F1 back, but I

maybe, but you don't need to because

you're doing

>> they're doing okay. That's very funny. I

like it.

>> And then Mercedes. Very quickly, the

C1112 concept from the year 1970.

They've got gullwing doors in a midenine

car. I thought, could we explore this?

Maybe there's a business case. But if

there's not a small, fun, lightweight

roster from Mercedes, make cool fun

things for Mercedes.

>> Bring the SLK back. Yeah.

>> That's light because Mercedes-Benzes are

gotten really heavy.

>> Very heavy. Very heavy. Yes.

>> Finally, Mini R53.

>> This is a 2004 that I'm showing on

screen. I love the Mini.

>> Yeah. This is the size.

>> I care what it looks like, but this is

the size you need to make. They've

gotten bloated.

>> They've all just gotten big. The minis

are now max. Yes,

>> for sure.

>> R53 is the size. I love the styling on

this.

>> Mhm. Mhm.

>> I'm not saying make this forever, but

bring the size back. Make it.

>> I think at this point they are still

trading on that styling and the the all

of the goodwill that was created by it.

They're kind of on the back end of that.

I feel like anyway,

>> like where do we go from here?

>> Yes, I'm showing you. I'm

>> here's where we go. Yes.

>> And finally, Mitsubishi Evo 10. You've

got so much room to run with bringing

the Mitsubishi brand back. The

Outlanders and I I don't even know what

they are anymore. They're just nameless,

faceless.

>> They look like anything and nothing.

>> The Eclipse has wound up back on on some

of their stuff with the Eclipse Cross.

Mitsubishi is lost in the wilderness. It

is so bizarre. Yeah, I hear you. Since

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>> Autotempest. All the cars. One search.

That was a great list. We might not get

through everything on our list on our

our whole intention here. We might not

do car conclusions again because this is

this is really cool. I like this. I've

covered some of the ones you covered,

but I'm what I'm pleased about is I

covered some brands differently than you

did and some other brands you covered I

didn't even cover. So, I'm excited

through this. So, here we go. Let's see.

I've got I'm going to start, of course,

same place you started. The Acura NSX.

>> Nobody's surprised, but yes. Okay. So, I

have the old one and the new one back to

back here on screen.

>> I like that you're showing them both.

>> They're gorgeous cars. They are gorgeous

cars. I still love the original so very

much. people needed the second one to be

the Amira and it isn't. But I really

feel like people are going to start

coming around on this second gen. I

think

>> it's it's headed that way.

>> Okay.

>> The other thing that was funny about

making these lists is I started to think

up cars I wanted them to bring back and

I started to be like what would a modern

version of that be be? And so I would

look up the old versions of some of

these cars and the next one I'm coming

to Alfa Romeo is this way. I'd look up

the old version of a car and realize

that somebody's already an AI created

what I was thinking. I'm not saying it's

right, but in some cases these old

marks, somebody has thrown it at AI and

made a new variation. And I want to go

to the Alpha Romeo Spider, which should

come back.

>> Somebody has made an AI version of the

Alfa Romeo Spider essentially on the ND

Miata,

>> of course.

>> And this is exactly what Alpha should

do. They should partner with Mazda. They

should have I mean I realize Fiat did it

with the 124. Yeah. But I'm thinking the

same kind of thing but it's now a Mazda

Miata and then above it because the

other thing is the Fiat 124 was kind of

stepping on the Mazda as far as price

was concerned and that kind of stuff.

This needs to be 5 to$10,000 above the

Miata. It needs to have Alfa Romeo

styling and it needs to have an Alfa

Romeo interior. But in its core it's the

next gen Mazda Miata. the Mazda MX5, the

next gen, whatever the NDE, the fifth

generation is going to be, there should

be an Alpha Spider version of that.

Since many people use the Miata RF or

MX5 RF or any MX5 as the GT car,

>> Mhm.

>> could this would this need to grow in

size maybe 10%, 20% to be slightly

larger, slightly more powerful, and

therefore a bit more luxurious in a

higher price point as well?

>> Here's the thing. instead of keeping it

so small.

>> The reality is it has to be something

they can build side by side on the same

uh assembly line. That's the problem.

Otherwise, it doesn't make sense from a

from a profit sharing, you know, effort

sharing thing,

>> money,

>> but but the reality is I as much as I

don't want the Mazda to get bigger, and

I really genuinely don't,

>> the passenger space in the current one

is poor.

>> It is.

>> And I and I do mean passenger, not

driver. So, I kind of feel like there

has to be some new thinking on packaging

anyway, but it still needs to be

mid2,000 lb. It still needs to be small.

It can't be a big car.

>> Mhm.

>> So, but but the Alfa Romeo Spider is a

historic name.

>> Let's get Alfa Romeo styling on a Miata.

>> If it gave a Boxster a run for its money

in the marketplace, that's interesting.

>> Yeah. And, you know, again, 10 grand.

It's a 10 grand delta between buying the

MX5 and buying the Spider.

and make it accordingly up market like

that. That's the other one I thought of.

Uh in in Audi world, I found a purpose

for the new EV Cayman. You remember when

Audi was making what became the Porsche

924 and then Audi scrapped the project

and became a Porsche? This is going the

other way.

>> Porsche doesn't know what to do

>> with the market

>> with their potential EV Cayman. Uh-huh.

>> This is your new Audi TT

EV. Try to keep it as close to 3,000 lb

as possible. All-wheel drive ED EV.

Change the styling to be more Audi. Make

it the brand new TT with a cool interior

>> because the TT name is storied.

>> People like it. It's a Cayman

alternative anyway. But anytime,

including on this podcast, when the TT

goes up against the Cayman, we pick

Cayman because it's more dynamic. Let

the TT be its own thing. This is where

your electric efforts for the came and

go. It's an Audi TT now. Although that

concept C that we just covered a couple

podcasts ago. Yes.

>> That I think is slated to be on top of

this plat or

>> who knows? It's trying to be like

combination TT R8. We don't know. But

>> that strikes me as a larger vehicle.

>> I think so too. I think that the TT

needs to be smaller and more accessible.

And there's an opportunity here for Audi

to have that as a kind of standalone

outlier on their lineup and you build it

on the back of the Cayman EV and then

the Cayman can be other things.

>> I like that.

>> That's that's on their leaving.

>> Moving on. I'm going to BMW and BMW

needs to bring back the one series. The

one Series. I'm actually showing the

twodoor hatchback we didn't get in the

US. And I'm not look the one series

right now in 2025 still exists, but it's

the mini chassis.

>> It's frontwheel drive architecture. I'm

talking about a generation plus back.

The one we didn't even get in the US in

the mid2010s. This is a 2015 I have that

I'm showing right now in a great blue.

This was a rearwheel drive two-door

hatchback. No one else on the planet's

going to do that.

And two-door hatchbacks are awesome.

Now, I don't know BMW can justify it

somehow.

>> Seriously, I don't know what business

case regulations exist because I I feel

like we've watched over the last 15

years, pretty much every dedicated

twodoor hatchback has died.

>> I think the Mini might be the only one

left.

>> Okay. So, it's not a common thing. But

what I'd really like BMW to do is BMW

are they are the king of parts cars.

>> Love it. Take a small four-cylinder.

Shoot for 3,000 lbs on this tops. Make

it rearwheel drive hatchback two-door,

maybe four-door, but hopefully twodoor

and available with a manual. This is

your new entrylevel car. BMW has the

history and the knowhow to do this at a

level nobody else can. Don't even need

to go above a four-cylinder. Just make

it the four-cylinder. It's going to have

roughly 300 horsepower anyway.

>> Throw it as a B48. Drop that out of the

Supra. Drop that in. Yes. So, this is

what BMW needs. They need a a bottom of

the market little hatchback that says

this is what BMW does. And the 1 Series

is waiting to be that. And it shouldn't

be another front-wheel drive almost SUV

variant of the Mini. It needs to be

rearwheel drive, manual driver's car.

Hopefully, two-door hatch. That's for

BMW. Moving on to Cadillac, who really

ought to bring back the XLR.

>> You think so?

>> I think they do. When when Chevrolet

does the next Corvette, the C9.

>> Crazy.

>> Yes. When they do that,

>> Cadillac needs a variant of the C9 that

is aiming directly at the LC500 crowd.

>> Little bit of a price bump,

>> leaning toward luxury. You can't get a

track variant. It's not what we're doing

anymore. It's the Cadillac. It's the

XLR. It comes in convertible because

these did. It comes in convertible. It's

based on the C9 architecture. I'm I'm

leaning forward to the next Corvette.

Comes in the C9 architecture. It's

automatic only. Maybe it's even

all-wheel drive, but this is this is a

luxury variant of the Corvette, and it

is leaning fully toward being a luxury

variant. It is trying to be the Lexus

Corvette.

>> So, there there's no high perform. It'll

be plenty high performance because it's

going to be based on the the base C9,

which will be powerful and drive well

and have Magnaride,

>> of course. Yes. So, let the Corvette

lean into being hardcore. And also, I

think there's a possibility here of

possibly freeing up the architecture. If

you really want the golf bags, Cadillac.

>> If you don't need the golf bags,

Corvette.

>> I like that a lot.

>> But I think there's an opportunity here

for let's actually make under those two

brands that they have the car for the

people that want it.

>> That's okay. You're making a case

and make it really highend luxury. Very

luxurious.

>> Yes. Very classy car.

>> Absolutely. With a Cadillac badge on it.

The XLR was essentially the C6 Corvette.

>> Rebodied convertible, made under

Cadillac, very boxy styling. There's one

that actually drives around my

neighborhood every now and then. I see

it. I go, "Oh my gosh, there it is. Oh

my gosh, there it is."

>> I think the styling was the Achilles

heel on this.

>> Well, and I and I never fell in love

with it. It was their thing at the time.

>> Yes, it was their very when we had

aren't super boxy escalate. It's that

same era. Yeah, it's

>> that same era where everything was just

they only had rulers at at Cadillac. So

anyway, so the XLR would be very very

cool. I think that should come back.

Moving on to Chevrolet. Who needs to

bring back the Solstice? I know it was a

Pontiac,

>> but the Solstice. And here's why. Take

that name. They already have that name.

That name means small sports car from

GM. It's a good name. It's a great name.

Sell it underneath Chevrolet. And here's

what you do. I'm showing a Solstice

Coupe on screen right now. But

>> I've never seen one of these in person.

>> I haven't either. I've only seen one at

like an auto show and they're very cool.

Part of me, this is like the weird The

only part of me that has any kind of

collector car interest wants a Solstice.

>> Coming soon to an auction near you.

>> Wants a Solstice Coupe. They're not

worth buying. But anyway,

>> here's the reason I I brought it up.

This was Bob Lutz and GM attempting to

make make a Miata competitor. And for

first blush, they got pretty close.

Yeah, they got pretty close. It's not

great, but it was surprisingly good.

They sold very few of the coups. The

coups were all target removable top.

>> The turbo version of this was like 250

horsepower and torque. Drove pretty

well. The base models drove pretty well.

Here's what I'm thinking. This is the

car you position below the Corvette.

For the people that still like the

Corvette, this needs to be 80% the size

of the C7.

>> Roughly the size of a G8 GR86. Roughly.

Maybe actually because it's GM, probably

a little bit bigger than the GRD6, but

not by much.

>> Almost like supersized

>> somewhere in that in that area.

Superized it. Somewhere in that area.

Very funny. But it needs to have the

same target roof as you see on the

Solstice Coupe or the C7 Corvette. So

target roof.

>> And it needs to have a a turbo

four-cylinder in it. It needs roughly

300 horsepower.

>> Yeah.

>> Come in at about $40,000. Call it a

solstice. Make it available with a

manual and an automatic. Doesn't even

need a DCT. like manual and automatic.

You're competing with the GR86, maybe

just below the Super, right in that

area. Like $40,000 is the target here.

This is an 80% scale C7. Take the C7

design and thinking, bring it forward in

in in design, make it 80% scale, four

cylinder, $40,000. Call it the Solstice.

Hello GM, come on Chevy. Because that's

the car below the Corvette. What do you

have?

>> Nothing.

>> Nothing. The Camaro's gone and was

getting too big and was always a two

plus2 muscle car. Anyway, there's a

sports car opportunity here from

Chevrolet. It's a parts bin idea. You

use they've got 2.5s and 2.7 turbos that

are running 300 horsepower that they put

in other cars.

>> Well, what I like the most about this is

because this would have to be its own

platform. And the cars that we love to

drive the most are their own platform.

And I don't know how you advertise that

and make it make sense, but I think

there's an opportunity below the

Corvette at GM and I'm thinking the

Camaro is so connected to muscle cars,

even though it'll probably be re

resurrected as an SUV, but it's so

connected to muscle cars. The Solstice

is a small lightweight, fun car, sports

car. Solstice for Chevrolet, for GM,

>> Ford. Ford. Oh, Ford folks at Ford, the

Fiesta ST was brilliant. It was

brilliant. It was great. The Fiesta,

here's the thing. The Fiesta was based

on was even okay. Wasn't great, but it

was okay. It had a weird transmission in

the automatic. That's a separate thing.

Whatever.

>> We didn't get the second gen Fiesta ST.

And everyone I know that I trust as a

journalist in Europe that drove it said

it was better than the one we got. And

the one we got was brilliant.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. Ford, like GM, they don't sell

cars anymore. They certainly don't sell

entry-level cars. And the problem with

the Fiesta when it was out prior, the

one we got here, is that the interior

was very cheap.

But I'm thinking about the current, I

know this is weird, but I'm thinking

about the current Nissan Sentra, which

we drove recently. That car was

surprisingly inexpensive and didn't feel

cheap inside. My theory here is that you

can actually at the low $20,000 thing,

if you do it right, you can do a low

$20,000 entry-le car that no longer

feels cheap. It feels inexpensive. You

know, you didn't get luxury, but it

doesn't feel like army man plastic

cheap, which was the problem with the

Fiesta ST. It was just just army man

plastic everywhere and like the worst

quality piano black over the stereo, but

it drove so great.

>> Yeah.

>> So, what's the version of the Fiesta

that Ford could come out with that's

just in the low 20,000s, like the bottom

of the car market, and then the Fiesta

ST is just under 30.

>> Yes.

>> Turbo goodness.

>> Yes. They have proven they know how to

do it and to kill it. I cannot believe

the Fiesta ST no longer exists. Ford

Fiesta ST is the play. It needs to come

back. I Here's the thing. I don't want

to focus. I don't want to focus RS. I

don't care about other variants of the

Mustang. Let's make the good variants of

the Mustang and below that Fiesta ST and

we're done.

>> I mean, I think the Mustang needs to be

completely rethought from here on out

for the rest of time.

>> That's a whole topic Tuesday of its own.

>> GTD. Cool. Want to drive it?

>> Whole topic Tuesday of its own. Yes, I

hear you. I love this idea. Moving on.

Honda S2000. You mentioned it already

there. What is the new S2000? Just

Honda. What is it? Is it the S3000? The

S2200? I don't care what you call.

>> Clearly, they're working on something.

>> You would like to think so, wouldn't

you? I mean, what what here? Here here's

the other thing I think is happening.

The the blowback on the Prelude, the

discussions that happen around the uh

current Civic Type R, which is

brilliant, the current uh Civic SI,

which is very good. I feel like all the

enthusiasts are are hoping and buying

around the the S2000, hoping at some

point there'll be an S2000 they can

actually buy.

>> We're all hoping for this for Honda. So

that we both

>> I know there's a lot of enthusiasts that

work for Honda a ton.

>> Yes, for sure.

>> Pretty much everybody who works there is

an enthusiast who probably wants 2000.

Here's the thing. This could be and I'm

I'm going to hit it again because

Honda's done it before. This could be

G86 sized whether it's convertible or

not. G86 size. You could make it 2

plus2. This could be hybrid manual

again.

>> Yes,

>> I think Honda could do a hybrid manual

S3000

>> and it would work.

>> The thing they can't do is offer it

without a manual cuz this is one of the

cars that is the most iconic cars for

having a manual transmission. But I

think they could totally get away with

hybrid tech manual transmission S3000.

It's a little bit heavier. It's low

3,000 pounds. It's the size of a GR86.

And I think that would be lauded and

people would snatch them up. And here's

the thing, the S2000 introduced the

start button to the basses. Can we

introduce a key again with the new one?

Just straight back to a key in the

ignition. Anyway, sorry, I'm dreaming

now. But anyway,

>> daring of you.

>> Yeah, the Honda now has a key. Moving

on.

>> Wow.

>> Follow me. The Hyundai Tibberon. Huh. It

was a front-wheel drive, questionable

styling two generation first blush at a

sports car from Hyundai. But hear me

out.

>> Okay, this is where Hyundai does a GR86

competitor.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> A rearwheel drive cuz the only one they

had was the Genesis Coupe, which is the

worst name ever. It's just brand name

coupe.

>> They had a phase.

>> They had a phase. They went through a

phase. They were trying to get Genesis

off the ground. But Tibberon, you

remember the commercials? Tibberon. The

name means shark.

>> Okay. It was kind of a goofy commercial.

They actually now mention it. They

actually dragged the shell of a first

generation Tibberon behind a boat and

had it come up jaws style behind the

boat. And it was Tibberon. The name

means shark.

>> Ambitious,

but terrible. Okay,

>> people. We've got some money to spend.

>> But the point I'm making here is that's

a cool name. It's a cool idea for a name

for a car. For a sports car, it's named

Shark. That's cool.

Let's make a rear wheel. They have rear

wheel drive experience doing the Genesis

brand. Yeah.

>> Okay. Let's do a rearwheel drive G86

competitor from Hyundai and call it the

Tibberon.

>> And absolutely like like the mood board

is just GR86's just that's your target.

Doesn't need to be convertible. It's a

small 2 plus two. They've got their 2.5

L engine with 300 horsepower.

>> Yes. That's in the engine 70. You're

talking 2.5.

>> It's all the same related platform

stuff. We're all talking about the same

>> powerful engine.

>> Yes.

>> My point is Hyundai Genesis are related

already anyway. Let's make the Hyundai

Tibberon. And then what you can do now

that I'm here, I jump back in the

alphabet to Genesis. You make a more

luxurious version and you call it the

G50

>> and you start here at 30 30,000 to

40,000 and you make the Tibberon over at

Hyundai. And then you make the slightly

more luxurious version, the lexified

version for Genesis and you call it the

G50. It's a two plus two, not a

four-door uh four seat.

>> Well, see, the SUVs are GV, the sedans

are G. So, maybe the GC for the coupe or

something.

>> No, but but it could just be the whole

new line.

>> Well, maybe, but it could just be the

G70 cuz that suggests car versus truck.

>> So, the G50 would be below the G70.

>> G70 coupe.

>> We're back to No, no, no, no, no coups.

No coops. Anyway, this is where I'm

going. My strange Hyundai thinking as I

move on.

Infiniti. Where is your G37?

I know after the G37 it became the Q

whatever. No, nobody cares. Nobody

remembers the Q lineup of Infiniti.

Don't shut the design studios. Make the

Infiniti version of the new Z. The the

the the reality is this helped justify

the 350Z.

>> From a parts perspective, from

amortization of the budget, this helped

justify it. And it was the luxury alt.

And in some cases, some years, I got to

be honest, I I vacasillated. Some years

I was like, the G uh the 350Z is really

cool. Other years, I was like, you know

what? I'd rather have a a G37 or a G35.

>> Use what you've built on the base Nissan

Z, which means you can have 400

horsepower, that great engine, manual

transmission or automatic, but now a 2

plus2 Infiniti styled body. And go back,

go backwards and call it the G35 or G37.

This is what people know it to be.

Called it the G40 since it's now four a

different engine with 400 horsepower.

>> That's Genesis G50.

>> Now G50. I'm I'm I'm cutting cutting it

tight here. But my point is Infiniti.

People know your good sedans and coupe

as being the G something. Yeah. So we go

backwards. New G37 based on the current

uh Nissan Z. This should come back.

>> And they have I think they have the

brand equity. I think people would

welcome it. Mhm.

>> rearwheel drive, good-looking luxury

luxury 2 plus2

>> there. That nobody makes that in the

mid- $50,000 range. It just doesn't

exist anymore. There was the uh this and

the the Lexus RC and they both just

vanished. Okay, so Infiniti G37 exists.

>> I'm going to go someplace crazy for

Lexus. I'm showing a G86 on screen.

>> What?

>> Follow me for a second. I'm showing the

G86, but I'm going to go two places at

once because after Lexus comes Lotus, so

follow me.

>> Okay.

>> For the next gen GR86,

we have the current gen.

>> Yeah.

>> Theoretically, based on what we

understand, there will probably be a

nextG. We don't know when. We don't know

what, but

>> I'm ready to drive it already.

>> But Toyota has we we believe there'll be

a next gen. Okay.

>> The G86 has been well refined in this

second gen. under 30,000 horsepower

rearwheel drive chassis.

>> Here's what you do with the nextG

Toyota.

>> Maybe if it gets bigger, it gets tiny

bit bigger, like fractionally bigger

because it still has to be under 3,000

lbs. Yeah.

>> You make the 2 plus2 GR86 nextG,

>> but you build the chassis in such a way

that you can make a four-door version

that is now sold as the base Lexus. And

your target for the Lexus is essentially

making a modern version of the BMW E36

because it's going to be roughly that

size. Roughly 2900 to 3,000 lbs. Small

rearwheel drive biased four-door. It's a

four-door. You make Lexus styling on it.

It's based on the same chassis as the

new GR86. It's a four-door.

>> But here's what you do.

You have that four-door means a small

back seats, but it still now is the car

that people ask us about almost every

podcast. Essentially, they say, "I'd

like a G86, but I'd like four seats and

four-doors

>> or sometimes a four-door Miata." What is

a four-door Miata? Could it

>> doesn't exist? There's nothing on the

market.

>> A G86 chassis. If thought about from the

beginning, you have the Lexus four-door

version and you have the G86. Now, it

relates because you help this get made

by getting handling help and chassis

help from Lotus, who now sells

a four-door version with Lotus badging

and Lotus tweak styling over at Lotus.

And they have a new four-door rearwheel

drive Lotus product as well. Because the

Lotus customer, you can sell one that is

tuned closer to the handling first

aesthetic of the G86, but is four-door.

>> At Lotus, it's going to be $20,000 more

than the G86, so it won't bother that

market. But the Lexus one is the softer

suspension one.

>> So, the softer suspension buyers go to

Lexus.

>> The people that want reliability, was

built with Lexus, but also want more

focused handling, go buy the Lotus

product. And those might step on each

other, but it's a different buyer. So,

I've taken the GR86 and I've made a

four-door Lexus product and a four-door

Lotus product, all from one car from the

NextG.

>> I love product planning for cars. I love

it.

>> We're We're insane, but we're having

fun. So, there's what I did with the GD6

for two brands at once. Moving on.

Mazda, just make the Ionic already.

>> Yes.

>> Just make the Ionic and put the straight

six in it and call it a product. It

needs to be above the MX5. Basically,

Mazda just needs a product above the MX5

with the straight six in it with a long

nose and a great gorgeous styling. Mazda

knows how to do styling. Well, this

Ionic is fantastic. We get away from the

RX, which you already mentioned. We get

away from that. It doesn't need to be a

rotary.

>> Why did Mazda make a straight six

engine? I have to hit on this one last

time. Toyota, when they decided to bring

back the Supra, Toyota is one of the

largest car makers on the planet. Yeah.

And Toyota came to the conclusion with a

lot of accounting, I'm sure, we cannot

afford to make a straight six engine.

Mazda, one of the smallest car makers on

the planet, some day after a bad lunch,

decided, you know what we should do?

Straight six engine. And they made a

straight six engine for their SUV. Who

knows? Yes. But my point is, what is

Mazda doing that Toyota hasn't figured

out? They have that great straight six

engine. It's it's dying to be in a

rearwheel drive biased vehicle. make

this fantastic looking car above the

MX5. The MX5 maxes out at roughly 40 45.

This starts at 40 and goes to 60.

>> Well, luxurious. I mean, you and I are

in alignment. This is what I envision

for RX.

>> Exactly what needs to happen with it's

this.

>> It's It's going to be a little bit

bigger than a GR86. It's going to have

that long straight six in the front. I

This is where Mazda needs to

>> figure out a way to buy one.

>> I I don't just

>> I am all about this. I totally agree.

to our friends at mini.

They need to remember

>> what is that thing?

>> That is a uh that is an AI creation

concept. Yes.

>> Mini needs to remember that their name

is small. They make small cars.

>> Yes.

>> As they continue to blend with BMW, the

cars are getting worse. Okay. They're

just getting worse. Mini needs to make a

twodoor smaller than they're making so

far. Now they are holding the line with

the Cooper as a twodoor.

>> Yeah.

>> But they need to actually move back to a

small car. This needs to be on the same

chassis as the new Ford Fiesta. This is

how you make them both justified. And

again, the Fiesta is the low model

price-wise and the Mini is the higher

model. The Fiesta goes from the 20s to

the 30s. The Mini goes from the mid-30s

to the mid-40s.

That's a way both brands can bring back

a brand new smaller chassis that's

front-wheel drive, two-door hatch. It's

the Fiesta on the low end. It's the Mini

on the high end. Combine their thinking.

Small car. Genuinely small. I'm talking

like 2700 lb is the tops.

>> It's in the name.

>> It's in the name. There should be no

large car called mini

there. No, it shouldn't happen. It

should be It should be outlawed somehow.

>> Mini XL. No, no, stop it. If you've seen

a new Countryman, they're just they're

just an SUV now. It's just that's an

SUV. I don't care what the brand says

brand and they forgot what the name

means.

>> So, get with Ford. New Fiesta ST for

Ford, new Mini Cooper for Mini that is

genuinely small, frontwheel drive, and

fun. That's where I'm going for Mini.

And my last one, of course, we reached

Mitsubishi. We got to bring the Lancer

back.

>> Yeah, we do.

>> The Lancer needs to come out again. And

I'm going to say the same kind of things

that were going on over in Centralland

where you can make a mid20s car now that

doesn't feel really low rent and then

you make a an actual Evo. Now this needs

to be for the for the Evolution the

Evolution 11. I guess it needs to be

all-wheel drive hybrid DCT because as

much as I love the Evo and I do it's one

of my all-time favorites. The reason you

drive an Evo is not because it's manual.

you drive an Evo because you cannot

believe the tiny little package and how

well it handles and scrabbles through

everything and it's just it's fun going

10 miles an hour.

>> So, that has to do with the way the

all-wheel drive works. It has to do with

how the steering works. It has to do

with the the wheelbase.

Anytime I drove an Evo with the

five-speed manual, I like a manual, but

there was nothing about that manual I

was like, "Thank God this has a manual."

Anytime I drove the DCT, I was like,

"This is every bit as fun." And in fact,

I sometimes argued that the DCT was more

fun because it had a sixth gear, which

meant it quieted down on the highway.

You weren't running like 4500 RPM.

>> So, the the the brilliance of the Evo is

not the manual. It's everything it does

in the running gear. So, let's make an

all-wheel drive hybridized

>> new Lancer Evo. And that brings people

back to that brand. And I'm done. I'm

out. Screenwriters are turning to old

scripts again and they rename the movie

the same thing with the new date after

the title.

>> If you really want the thing,

>> if you really want to freak yourself

out, look up the recent movie that

Bradley Cooper did called A Star Is Born

and figure out they've done it about

every 20 years.

>> They just keep redoing it's the same

premise. We're just going to do it again

because this generation hasn't seen it.

>> This version, the Thomas Crown Affair,

>> you know,

>> 1960s and early 2000s. Yes. Steve

McQueen. Very good. Very good. Yes.

Pierce Broen in the, you know, they just

put the new date after. It's the same.

>> We just remade it to make more money.

>> Yep.

>> But this is justified. Absolutely. But

we have a pact to make as enthusiasts.

>> Okay.

>> If we do this,

>> we have to buy them.

>> We have to spend the money.

>> If they were to do any of these, we have

to buy them. We have to stop buying

silver egg 5seat SUVs.

>> We're going to keep buying those, but we

have to buy the sports car in addition

here. Here's the thing. Next time we'll

do N through the end of the alphabet.

We'll do a bunch more. So, this will

probably go over time then as well. But,

we're having fun with it. We're just

we're dreaming here, but we're trying to

dream and product plan, which is one of

the things that we simultaneously are

great at and terrible at. So, we love

doing it. We'll keep doing it. That's

what that's about.

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Hooked on driving updates for late

September, early October 2025. Reminder

for Friday, September 26th at Soma

Raceway. We've got Motor Motorsport Park

Hastings, Nebraska coming up Friday,

September 26th through Sunday, September

28th. Then moving on to Ridge

Motorsports Park Friday, September 26th,

Saturday, September 27th. Wherever you

are in the country,

>> you can get to one of these tracks

>> this weekend.

>> Yes, true.

>> This coming weekend, welcome. This

coming Friday and weekend, that's those

three tracks are all running. It's

great. Moving into some early dates for

October, so you got them on your radar

so you can put them on your calendar.

Portland International Raceway is

Saturday, October 4. The Northeast

Region

event at Watkins Glenn is coming up

Friday, October 10th through Sunday,

October 12th. This is going to be a

fantastic event. We were there last year

for this event and we're going again. We

are planning on being there. So, if you

are coming, come out and see us.

>> Yeah, come say hi. It'd be really cool.

It's going to be a huge event. it. Look,

it's not just a track day. They're doing

drifting. They've got a band coming. I

mean, they're making it very family

familyfriendly and broader than just a

track day. Watkins Glenn is involved in

it. I think they're doing a car show as

well, if memory serves big event. We're

excited to be there. That is a huge

blowout for the fall event for our

Northeast franchise of Hooked on

Driving. You have to be there. October

10th through 12th. Here's the thing.

>> If you're considering running Watkins

Glenn in the fall,

>> this is your event.

>> This event. Come on out. We'll introduce

you to Santi and Cody. They run the the

Northeast region. They're doing an

incredible job and they've got even more

plans for 2026. But come out and meet

these guys. See what's going on at

Hooked OnDriving event. Get your car in

track. Hooked ondriving.com for a track

day near you.

>> So here on the car debate, we cover

everything we can think of as far as

kinds of cars, kinds of budgets and

situations. And Sal's writing in with

one that doesn't happen often, but is

super fun. And that is the fourth car.

Doesn't need a commute car. Doesn't need

it to really do much but be the fourth

car. Who says that? I need a fourth car.

>> Sal S Sal does. Apparently. He has a

2024 Honda Civic Type R. So, the current

Type R that we all love.

>> So, he can do track day. He can do

dropping off his two oldest girls. I

mean, this car does everything. He loves

it. One of his favorite cars ever. He

says it's the greatest driver's car he's

owned in his history. And it can do so

many things. And it's fun at the limit.

Back roads, track days. He loves the

thing. He's getting winter tires for it.

Bravo, man. to run it in Minnesota

winters. So, I am so excited for you

that you have this car. But they do have

an SUV because of course they do. The

2022 Toyota Highlander Platinum. They

have that as well. That is one of their

cars. But wait, where does the third car

come from? That is his wife. I I cannot

believe the sentence I read here. That

is his wife's 2020 Porsche 718 Cayman S

with PDK and all of the options. Nice.

>> This was

>> nice.

>> I can only I'm envisioning this. The

writer in me is envisioning this. This

was her hear me now. her push present

for their third child.

Are you really telling me, S, you and

your wife, who is now listening, are you

really telling me she's uncomfortable in

a hospital gown with a bunch of people

standing around her, probably hates you

in this moment, in a lot of pain, trying

to give birth to your third child, and

you said to her, "I'll get you a push

present of a Porsche." in that moment

when did that happen then? Because I'm

not sure that's the right time to do

that,

>> but it worked.

>> It worked.

>> They got kid number three.

>> They had kid number three and Porsche

racing yellow

the Cayman. Oh my gosh. Fantastic. Well

done. Well, he says he's got two amazing

cars and this has spoiled him in ways as

you may imagine with modern sports cars.

But he says this has got him feeling a

sense of lacking in terms of feel. M

>> he wouldn't say sterile but both cars he

writes hide certain feelings from you in

different ways in from a driving

perspective

>> I actually agree with that you've bought

fant look at think about it the Civic

Type R and the current 718 Cayman are

both brilliant

>> but if you compare them to analog cars

of just the 80s let's just go there 80s

early 90s there is some stuff lost some

stuff that you're not getting even

though both of those cars are brilliant

yeah I get it

>> well S also writes that he's driven many

top- end Porsche cars so he's sure

that's ruined him as well like a 992

Carrera T,

>> okay,

>> and a 981 GT4. The current plan is to

keep all of the current lineup because

they work and they're in love with all

of their cars.

>> Okay.

>> Now, Salah's history includes his first

car being a 2013 Subaru BRZ, his first

cool car out of college. He only drove

on cool road cool curvy roads and taught

him what a driver's car should feel

like. He moved to a bigger city, got a

2012 Honda Civic SI, which made him fall

in love with Honda and naturally

aspirated engines with a K24. After CO,

he had too much time on our hands. So,

he sold the Civic SI, bought a 2011 WRX.

This was his co project. Yes.

>> And spent a bunch of money. We'll just

say that. Parts.

>> Yep.

>> Modifications, big turbo, all the stuff.

>> But what this all brings him to, they

love their car lineup, the the three car

lineup.

>> They need a fourth car. They're looking

for the fourth car that that S can leave

in the driveway that he doesn't have to

worry about or care about or be precious

with during the summers that has more

the raw feeling that he's missing.

>> The concept here is he's actually

looking for a car to play with. The

concept here is buy it,

>> have it for the whole summer, park it in

the driveway, take it to anywhere and

park it and not worry about it, and then

maybe even sell it at the end of the

summer. This is a play car to try to do

the thing that other cars can't do,

which is be brilliant, be modern, be

well cared for. Now, not that he wants

to trash this car, but the concept is

where's that raw feeling I don't have?

And he's aware enough that he's going to

spend a little bit of money on it,

hopefully get rid of it down the line

because it's just an experiential play.

It's not a fourth long-term car. It's a

car that does what I don't have. Very

interesting. He has things listed right

here. He's got a 987 Porsche Boxster

base manual. He said he wonders if this

might actually step on the toes of his

wife's Cayman and be too similar, but he

knows that's the more analog version.

What about old BMWs? E36 coupe, E46

convertible. He's always kind of loved

these in in the MC car form. So maybe

that's the right answer, but he's

worried about maintenance and

modification history on the one he'd buy

or the one he'd try to keep. That's

concerning. Or he goes old school with

his Honda love and goes Acura Integra

GSR. He says it's a throwback, but he

has that Acura Honda love. What about

some old school naturally aspirated

VTEC? What about that in the driveway?

What are our suggestions for

essentially? This is how I titled it.

His raw summer only car. S I have an

answer.

>> Okay, good. This is your cheap summer

beater.

>> Yep. Your your summer vacation cottage

by the lake.

>> There you I like it.

>> You don't have to worry if bird crap

gets on it. You don't have to worry

about even washing it the entire time. I

can't believe I just said that.

>> Please don't do that. That Paul would

not justify that at all.

>> I would not justify that. But if you own

this,

>> get charged extra for that.

>> If you own this Z3 cheap to run, they

just run well under your $20,000 budget.

>> Yeah, true. Easy true.

>> Easy money for this. Go get yourself a

fun Z4.

>> Sorry, I said Z3. I meant to say Z4,

too, because

>> you identified these on a couple podcast

episodes ago. These Z4s were slept on

and they're all under 20 grand and

they're goodlooking, fun to drive.

Interesting, fun, great sports cars.

They're luxurious.

>> I think you should go get a Z3 or a Z4.

What are you looking for? Z3 is a little

bit smaller. Think out of size, but fun,

chuckable, great. Z4 is a little bit

more luxurious. You can park them on the

street. You can leave the keys in them

and

>> don't just park it on the street. Leave

the keys in it and see if anybody wants

it because they probably won't. That's

really funny. Yeah,

>> of course. GT86 is on my list as is

GR86.

Maybe be pushing on your budget a little

bit for a GR86, but absolutely worth it.

I think you should definitely consider

one of these.

>> And my outlier since it's so completely

different,

>> the Abart version of the Fiat 124

Spider. Okay. So, the the Italian Miata,

the Fiata,

>> because I think these are cheaper.

>> Nobody Nobody really wanted these.

>> Nobody thinks about them. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

>> Go get one of these. It's actually a

different engine, turboed. Great fun to

drive. Miata, but different styling. And

like I said, I bet you could pick one of

these up a little bit cheaper because

everybody seems to want the Miata, the

MX5.

>> Yep. Yep.

>> Go get yourself one of these. It's cool.

Interesting styling. It's just It's just

the now car.

>> Yeah.

>> That's the key right now car. It's it's

it's buy it, have it for maybe a year.

>> Yeah.

>> And and it's the fourth car to get a

different experience. That's the key

thing that I really settled on here, S,

is that you're looking for that raw

summer car. And and I I don't want to

say disposable car, but the concept here

is there's no reason to be precious.

>> You just you want to have it for a time

period, get a different experience out

of it. I decided on the perfect car for

you, except that I really blew the

budget. That was the problem with me.

And that is to really really do this

correctly. The answer is a caterum.

He wants a raw car unlike anything he's

got. And the answer is a caterum. Now

the problem is there's not very many

caterums in the US.

>> So when I looked on AutoTempus today,

they were all over 50 grand.

>> You can get cater in all kinds of

different engine choices. What I find

fascinating, because we don't get them

all here in the US, but what I find

fascinating is any time that all of the

automotive journalists in Europe drive a

caterer, the British especially, they

always end up driving multiple on the

same day. They drive the super high

power one and they drive the one with

like the average amount of horsepower of

an iron. I mean, nothing.

>> It's got like bicycle tires.

>> Seriously, bicycle tires and like

couldn't even run your generator kind of

engine. Okay. And almost across the

board, they like the low power one more

because they're foot to the floor,

sliding around corners. You and I have

driven one of the very high power ones.

It was like 350 horsepower, whatever.

Cool.

>> Cool. Frightening. Didn't need that much

power. Still very cool. But my point is,

this is your answer. You want raw summer

car. Don't have to worry about catering.

>> Well, if you want to park it on the

street, just take the steering wheel

with you. Security defeat device.

>> That's perfect. The problem is it's

above your budget. So that's I can't go

here. But this is really the one I think

is perfect. So I went here, the MR2

Spider.

>> These are cheap chuckable.

>> 10 grand for the nicest one in the

country. Okay, it drives totally

different than what you've got, but it's

still related. This is proper mid-enine

handling. This is going to run. They

they there's nothing precious about this

car.

>> And they're all out there well under

your budget. Get the manual

transmission. The automatic is terrible.

The interior is not that great. But this

is also one of those cars that nobody's

offended by this and nobody wants to do

anything aggressive. It's just car. It's

super fun. This is absolutely

fundamental fun car. You don't need to

worry about the MR2 Spider. They're out

there. Look at one very seriously. The

later models are a little bit better if

you can get one, but you can with your

budget 20 grand. You can get the nicest

one in the planet. But I gave it a lot

of thought and I went looking s

considering your backstory because you

are a Honda guy. You're a Honda fanboy.

You want a different experience. And

let's review it. Your Civic Type R,

>> your Boxster, and your Highlander. You

want a different experience that's more

raw. I can't believe it. But with

$20,000, especially since you want to

actually buy it and then sell it again

later, you need a Honda S2000 first gen,

the AP1, before they revised it. I

looked it up on Autotapist right now.

Can you get them under 20? Here's the

crazy thing. The AP1s

between 75 and 150,000 miles are on

either side of 20 grand all day long.

>> Are they really?

>> So since you're buying a car you're

going to have for maybe a year, you

don't want to be precious. You want to

buy it, drive it for a little while, and

sell it again. This is going to resell,

too.

>> True.

>> People are going to want these. The

eight-month car. Seriously.

So, I think this is where I was

surprised, but it's AP1's with high

miles. That's the key.

>> So, roughly, but you're going to buy,

look, you're going to buy a 100,000 mi

S2000 and at the end of the summer, it's

going to have what? 120,000 on it.

>> How much are you going to really drive

this thing?

>> You buy it at 90,000 and you break a 100

while you own it. Who cares?

Okay. S2000 gives you your natural feel,

your VTEC, your different experience of

manual transmission. I mean, it's still

electronic power steering, so you don't

gain anything there. But this is a much

more classic feel than the stuff you

own. And it gets you that Honda VTEC

stuff that you want. Civ. Imagine the

driveway. Civic Type R,

Honda S2000, and brand new Cayman. That

is a fantastic garage. And S, I'm out

there because I think I'm done.

>> You did really well, S. Thank you for

writing to us. If you've got a debate

like salves and you need a fourth car,

>> a fourth car,

>> fifth car,

>> by the way, if you need a first car, we

do that, too. Yeah, we do a lot.

>> We could just replace the car you have.

>> We can for sure. Yeah.

>> But if you need a seventh car or

>> everyday driver [email protected],

>> we're having another long podcast cuz

we're just enjoying ourselves. We hope

you guys are as well. That means we're

probably not going to do car conclusions

again, but we will create we'll come

back to them when we have a shorter

topic Tuesday. I swear that's going to

happen. But EJ is writing to us from

Sacramento. He's feeling pressure for a

minivan.

>> He tweeted to us back in 2021 when his

son Teddy was born. They were watching

the Evora versus M2 video a few hours

after his son was born.

>> I do remember that. If memory serves, I

remember asking you, "Does your wife

need anything?" Because it was like

she'd just given birth. He's like,

"We're watching this right now. My son's

been born like 15 minutes." I said,

"What? Where's your wife?

>> Don't know what else does. She needs

something right now, but make sure she's

taken care of." Anyway. Yeah.

>> Well, his son is three and a half now.

Their fleet includes a paidoff Mark 7.5

GTI with the DSG 2017 Outback and a

manual ND3 Miata with the BBR package.

That's fantastic. ND3.

>> All of their friends have a second kid

or one on the way. Second on the way.

>> Yep.

>> Two of them have a Sienna

and they're feeling pressured to buy a

minivan or an SUV.

>> Okay.

What EJ wants is a wagon with a third

row. Yep.

>> But it doesn't look like the new V60

Polestar, V90, RS6 Avant, M5 Touring,

and the new E-Class E-Class wagons have

an optional third row. Like none of

them, he says, with the grandparents in

town often, seating five in the GTI and

and the Outback is a little snug for

trips longer than 60 to 90 minutes. I'm

surprised you last 10.

>> I'm surprised that 60 to 90 minutes was

the end of that sentence as well. I

agree. Yeah. He says he could go back

five years and have a budget of up to

$100,000.

Technically up to 120 or 130 if they're

looking at an RS6 Avant. I'm so glad we

pushed on the budget. I mean, you you

already knew I was going to and of

course

>> you did it for me, so that's great.

>> He enjoys tinkering tinkering on cars.

He'll probably have to sell the GTI or

the Outback because a new wagon would

make one, if not both, redundant.

>> But he do wants to have a third car when

the family visits. He is also acutely

aware that what they could do is just

rent a minivan as needed for those five

or more people family visits.

>> Mhm.

>> But he's really interested in the third

row wagon options.

>> Okay, I've got some stuff here for sure.

I have many things as well. Let's go

ahead and dive right in. Most of these

are SUVs. Okay.

>> Because

very few manufacturers make current

modern wagons with a third row, just

like you just named all of those.

>> Yeah, he he identified the problem for

sure. Yes. don't exist. So, I'm going to

get you as close as close as I possibly

can and I think I have your winner and I

think you're going to not mind. I I

think be really excited.

>> Really? All right. Good. Starting with

the Kia Tellide. They're not $100,000

even new. You could buy two Tellides for

this price.

>> You could actually. Yes.

>> Moving on to the new Palisade or sorry,

Santa Fe. O

>> Palisade was on my list, but I chose

Santa Fe mainly because you get those

cool Vanigan rear lights. It's an

acquired taste. actually defending the

Santa Fe cuz I just can't justify it for

anybody

>> only because of its usefulness and

that's it.

>> It is useful and it comes in your eyes.

It's just Uh-huh. It is a It is what a

box is.

>> Yes.

>> Let's just say I'm acknowledging its

presence.

>> Okay. That there. I like that. That's

>> it's on the market because I didn't want

you to say, "Well, did you know the

Santa Fe has three rows?"

>> And it's hybrid and Yes. Uhhuh.

>> I know. It gets good gas mileage.

>> It does. Yes.

>> And it's useful.

>> And I talked about it before. It's It's

the car that doesn't bother you. It's

just you're just driving. Yeah.

>> Moving right along to the Genesis GV80.

This is a cool car. It is beautiful.

>> Easy under your budget. Easy. You could

almost get two of these for your budget.

But Genesis GV80, find it in that nice

green. The beautiful green. And I think

you would really like these. The back

seats, the third row is not huge.

So maybe 40 minutes, 45 minutes they'll

last. People will last back there. Maybe

not 60 to 90.

>> They're doing 60 to 90 in the back of a

GTI. I think they could go cross country

in the Genesis bike.

>> Shut up and we'll be there soon.

>> What we're doing. Yeah, there's some

conversation going on there.

>> You know, if we're going to spend

100,000.

>> Okay.

>> If we're going to spend 120 or 130.

>> Yeah.

>> Let's get something with space. Let's

get something with power. Let's get

something with presence.

>> An Escalade V. It starts in sport mode.

>> It's angry. It's fast. You will giggle

because of the exhaust cackle. You'll

turn into a child. It's fantastically

unnecessary is really what it is.

>> Which is the whole reason I'm suggesting

>> I understand. I get that. Yeah.

>> But what is necessary

is the GLS63 because third row it's an

SUV.

>> Mhm.

>> Lots of power.

>> They drive very well.

>> It doesn't drive like an SUV and that's

why Mercing it.

>> I agree with that. Yep.

>> So you could consider even slightly used

GLS63.

These are superb. Fully loaded. You

won't believe that this does the things

that it does. Okay. But the final car,

this is the one, EJ. This is it. I don't

think you're ready.

>> MDX Type S. MDX Type S. It's not a van.

It's got an excellent third row. The

engine, the 3 L is superb. Lots of

power. Brand new. They were $73,000.

Again, you could almost buy two of these

used for what your budget is, but you

will still feel like you're getting your

money's worth. So, I'm saving you money.

Awesome to drive. Gobs of power. third

row, not a minivan, and your neighbors

will be like, "Huh, maybe we need to get

an MDX Type X."

>> Not only do I agree with you, I agree

with you so much it's on my list as

well.

>> Awesome.

>> It was actually the place that I landed.

So So you've already landed in the right

place. That I want to say this to you as

well,

>> EJ. This is surprisingly good to drive.

We We talked about it on our review.

It's almost as good to drive as some of

the performance versions of the Cayenne,

but the difference here is it does have

a third row.

>> Yes.

>> So, this is a genuinely good to drive

SUV. Again, below your budget. I think

you nailed it with the Type S.

>> I think that's the car. That's

>> I think if you're going to break into

SUVs, I think this is the way to go. But

I have a couple other things I do want

to talk to you about. And that is I do

want to show you, believe it or not, I I

had to see the photo for myself. The

E-Class sedan

used has a third row seat that's halfway

decent

>> or wagon. E-class wagon, right?

>> Yes. The wagon, sorry. The wagon has

actually has a halfway decent looking

childrenly rear seat. That's not bad,

actually.

>> So, you could do that. Just get a a used

model. Now,

>> I I do want to acknowledge the elephant

of the room for a moment, and that is

you could just rent the van. I mean, if

look, how often are the in-laws or your

parents coming? If it's twice a year,

rent the van. If you like your current,

here's the question. I don't know how

much you like your current stable. If

you like your current st, I'm fine with

this. Then the reality is the financial

reality is you rent the van you don't

have to worry about.

>> You rent it from the rental counter, not

Turo, rental counter. Yeah. Rental

counter van. Drive it for a week. You

don't have to like it. You don't have to

return it. Nice. It's just van. If you

really are looking for a bangaround for

the family for the time that they come

in, that is the answer. You don't have

to own a minivan. You rented it and you

don't have to worry about it. Your

neighbors with the Siennas, they got to

pay insurance. They got to put gas in

it. They got to make sure that it runs.

Take it to the dealer and oh my gosh,

the kids threw up in it again. None of

that matters for you. You rented a van,

you turned it back in. What's that

smell? Don't care.

>> I guarantee you it's going to be a

Pacifica, though. It's just going to be

Pacifica. That's where they all got.

van is still the like financial and

stress decision is still rent the van

but

>> this is what the E-Class look like which

is pretty cool but you know what I think

might be the answer because you can

probably get them cheap and for your

usage it might be perfect and that is an

early Tesla Model S.

>> They have a rearfacing childonly

third row that folds up out of the back.

The first one we ever drove had this. I

have a picture of you squishing yourself

into the back of this trying to film

somewhere.

>> Well, and we have a whole joke in our

original Model S piece where we actually

closed it with me sitting in it and I

had to hunker because it was not

designed for me. You were not happy.

Yes. True. But we we actually when we

first ever drove one of these, it was

owned by a family of seven.

>> That's right. And we have a shot of the

entire family getting out of this

vehicle and watching all the doors close

automatically behind it. My thinking

here is yes,

>> you could get one of these used

>> and it becomes the third car you only

use in specific situations. The chest

Tesla charging network is excellent.

>> Places you're going to go with people

are probably going to be fine for

charging.

>> Yeah, use these are still great. Yeah,

the way this works, I think, is perfect

for you. And I think you can find a much

better deal on one of these than you

could the E-Class,

>> and it becomes it it'll be good at

exactly what you need it to be good for.

So, that is kind of my wild card, but

also kind of my favorite if you don't go

where you went, Paul, and that is the

answer might just be MDX Type S.

>> It's an SUV. Whereas, I like this cuz

it's not. It's deliberately not.

>> This really gets it done. I can't

believe it. And I have to say, go watch

our original, it's like 10 years old

now. Watch our original Model S review.

We were genuinely impressed with the

fact that they did this at all. And it

does work. So, I think used Tesla Model

S, which is probably going to be not

even half your budget for a used one.

>> Yep.

>> With the third row seat, and call it a

day.

>> Everyday driver TV atgmail.com. Topic

Tuesdays, car conclusions, fourth car

debates,

>> fifth car debates,

>> first car debates, fourth car debates,

all the debates,

>> filling your garage. We will get back to

car conclusions, but we have run long

yet again, and we're loving it. We We

should run some audience questions,

though. One of these is a topic Tuesday.

You see Kyle's question, lightning

round, most fun car under 5K, 10K, 20K,

50K, and 100K. Oh my gosh. But then he

says, "No Miatas, no G86s, no Porsches."

>> That's a topic Tuesday right there.

We'll have to come back on that. I like

that a lot. Jared says, "Were there any

cars on Tale of the Dragon that in

hindsight we wish we could have driven

or done a piece on?" There was a 1980s,

early 90s that white Thunderbird. He one

of our Discord people on Discord had it.

It's an '90s Thunderbird

that has been retrofit with all Mustang

parts.

>> And he kept rumbling up and down the

Dragon. And I was kind of intrigued by

that car. I was enjoying driving my own

car on the Dragon, but I kind of kept

thinking if we had more time, I would

have loved to driven that because it

sounded awesome. It was atypical. That

would have been very fun to actually

hoon up and down the dragon. That was

actually one for sure. And then

honestly,

the folks with Miatas, that would have

been cool. I would have done a Miata up

and down the dragon with the top down.

That would have been actually really

cool. Yeah, you're right. The Bruce B on

Instagram says, "For SoCal traffic,

which cars have the best interiors,

comfortable seats, and easy to use

infotainment?

I just want to be in a Mercedes AMG. I

mean, you didn't give me a budget in

here. There was just point

>> which cars have the best interiors.

Mercedes AMG, whatever. I don't care.

And the interior is easy to use and it's

just comfortable and the

>> scent with the stuff and the cooling and

the stuff and you just want to be there.

Lovely, lovely place to be.

>> You know what? Another one in that

category, depending upon are you being

driven, what's going on. You know what?

The Genesis G90, we really like the

interior in that.

>> That's great. Yes. Genesis G90.

fantastic place to be and you can

actually save some money off the

Mercedes. Also really good.

>> Bella B1029 says, "Hey guys, uh

submitting uh for the have you seen this

car section few few days ago, Bella saw

an early 2000 Subaru Outback sedan."

Whoa. I'm a little Yeah. Okay. Now that

I think about it, I I remember what that

looked like. And it looked a little high

riding. It was like the Subarus really

looked high riding. Yeah.

>> That's right. Little ways ways back.

Those were always ungainainely because

they felt like they were up on their

tiptoes. Yeah.

>> And then they took that for inspiration

for the new WRX.

>> Of course they did. Yeah. That works

well as well. Dami actually asked last

time, he said, "In our discussion of the

$50,000 GT cars, is there a reason we

passed over the Jaguar XKR and picked

the Type F instead?" He thinks the XKR

is much more of a GT car. What Dami

doesn't say, and if my memory serves, is

I'm pretty sure Dami owns a Jaguar XKR.

I think you're right.

>> Which is why he brought it up.

>> So, first off, Dami, I'm really glad you

like your car and that's very cool. The

reason I didn't pick the XKR instead is

because I personally prefer the look,

the dynamic and weight, and the interior

of the F-Type over the XKR. But the

F-Type is actually more expensive than

the FKR in many cases used. And the XKR

is a steal of a used buy. If you have

one that's running well and you like it,

and I'm pretty sure you do, I think it's

a great car. I just prefer the F-Type.

On Instagram, Mystic Negro George has

said, "No one has disagreed that the

Camaro V61LE is the best E46 M3 that you

can buy. The Miata is univers

universally considered the best British

roadster, unless you're tall, and the

Chevy SS makes a strong case as the best

ever E39 M5."

>> Okay.

>> What are other cars that are the best

version of completely unrelated cars?

You've always said the Supra is the best

car BMW builds, which I've always found

hilarious. I think right now it's the

best BMW on the market is the Supra.

>> Absolutely.

>> I fully agree with that.

>> Well, George, you could also make a case

for say a Veloster N being the poor man

Civic Type R. I mean, I I think that's

interesting. Possibly the Elantra N

definitely sorry, the Elantra N. Yeah.

Yeah. Elantra definitely

possible. Travis asks, "What's the best

next car after the GR86? Needs to be

light and playful with a manual

transmission. He loves the GR86.

favorite car he's ever owned. But of

course, we all have the disease. What's

next, Travis? If you're going to go from

GR86, I think where you have to go next

is probably C7 or C6 Corvette.

It's the idea

>> writ large. You've got similar dynamics,

similar actual space, etc., just a

little bit larger. And the idea of all

all of your learning in the GR86, all

that translates to those Corvettes. I

think that's the next step up. Last

question for me on Facebook. Gregory

Tullson says he's curious our thoughts

on the six-pack Charger Daytona. Do we

think this car will ever be a steal in

the used market? I think it already is,

isn't it? When Hemi enthusiasts crater

the resale value, do we believe the car

will be an amazing value since it's got

420 horsepower in the lower output 550

in the Scat Pack and a straight six. M

>> will this be an amazing value in

comparison to say a BMW 340 or 440i or

S4S S5 Audi or will the weight of the

Charger Daytona be a significant

problem? I think you've hit on that

Gregory. I think the weight I it's so

big the form factor itself just the

proportions of the car the footprint is

so much bigger than the other cars you

just you said they are large

>> and that will absolutely affect it. It's

almost unrelated to power output.

>> And I Yeah, the market has

>> really not embraced these cars. I feel

like Dodge just went too far. They

>> the new platform and trying to do both

and now they're trying to resurrect it

and hey, we put the six-cylinder in and

please don't go. Please come back.

>> Yeah, I'm really curious to see what

people's take is on that and if they

like it better and if it if people start

circling back or not. I'm fascinated to

drive one for sure. I think because they

had plans, Stalantis had plans for this

platform for Alpha and others and buyers

did not line up for this. That's why we

haven't seen anything new like a new

Giulia from Alpha anytime soon, but that

would be way too big.

>> Be way too big.

>> Any other cars? I think

>> they were trying things and it didn't

really work out for them and they're

trying to resurrect it, but I don't

think that's a good thing because it's

not just a parts car. It's just we

started in the wrong. started going down

the road. It is it's that it's that you

started the huge floor of dominoes and

one that's one of the starter ones just

fails and the whole rest thing sitting

there in anticipation it isn't going to

go. It's that

>> it's the domino that didn't fall and now

what do we do? Yeah. Anyway

>> guys, thank you for all your questions.

We really appreciate it. Thank you for

being with us. We are on Spotify audio,

Spotify video and hopefully you're also

watching this on YouTube, our main

YouTube channel. Really appreciate you

watching. Thank you for your questions.

keep bringing your excellent ideas for

topics. We're uh we're going to

definitely cover

>> A through Z.

>> Yeah.

>> A lot more coming. Yep. And we're

looking forward to next time, too.

Cheers, everyone.

[Music]

Cars That Need A Comeback (A-M), The Fourth Car, Minivan Peer Pressure | Episode 1,013

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