Colin Clark. The Voice of Rally.

I think you've got to be critical and you've got to be a little bit skeptical.

Um, you know, if you take everything at face value, then what's the point?

Today on that car show, it's Colin Clark.

And if you follow rally at all, you know his name and you know his voice

from his beginnings, sponsoring the famed 555 Subaru World Rally

team and rallies larger than life personalities to his work now with

dirtfish and the sport's exciting resurgence in the United States, we

covered all and if like me, you don't know the first thing about rally,

that's okay too, because Colin's just a hell of a nice guy and his

enthusiasm for the sport will turn you into a fan by the end of the episode.

It's Colin Clark, the voice of rally and it's that car show.

Welcome to this week's episode of that car show and we have a bit of a

special one around motorsport.

I'm joined as usual with Ryan.

Hey, Ryan.

Hey, it's good to see you this week, Ryan.

I am going to give you an education on rallying and I brought a subject matter

expert to come and help me do that.

Before I, uh, before we talk to Colin, let's do a quick introduction.

Uh, if you followed modern, if you followed modern rallying, I said that again,

it's good job we record, isn't it?

If you follow more, I can't say the word modern.

I have these moments.

It's fine.

Sometimes I can say introduce yourself, Colin, but let's do you right.

If you follow modern rallying, you've heard his voice.

Our guest today is one of the most recognizable voices in the sport.

Rally commentator, journalist and lifelong car obsessive, Colin Clark.

Colin has covered the highs, the heartbreaks, the politics and the

personalities of rallying at the highest level.

He's interviewed world champions after victory.

He's navigated on unpredictable service parks and he's brought fans

closer to the sport.

Colin, welcome to the show.

Wow.

Well, I've never had an introduction quite like that, Dan.

That was magnificent.

Thank you very much for inviting me on your show.

Just one point, Dan, journalist.

I think, I think maybe you're pushing it a bit far, describing me as a journalist.

But it was a lovely intro.

Thank you very much.

Have you seen those, those LinkedIn posts that say what you did and then

what you put on LinkedIn?

So it's almost like I made a cup of tea, but in, in essence, I conducted

a scientific experiment where I boiled water to a point and then applied

a third party material to that water to create.

So anyway, we're available for any intros if you ever need us, Colin.

Yeah, well, I know I love that.

No, I just always feel guilty.

I mean, a journalist is, is, is, uh, I get called a journalist a lot,

but, you know, I'm not a journalist.

You're trained to be a journalist and journalists of particular skills.

My biggest skill is that, um, I've always got an opinion.

And I'm not, I'm not sure that qualifies me as a journalist.

That's the most important part.

Right.

You don't want to hear from folks that don't have an opinion, do you?

So, and your opinion is, is, is created by a set of experiences and a set of research.

So I think you are a journalist.

That's fair enough.

And, and, and I guess, you know, I'm quite fortunate in that my experiences in

rallying, uh, certainly from the media side of things cover both sides.

You know, I started off in rallying on the other side as, as a sponsor.

You know, I was in charge of the, uh, the 555 sponsorship of the, the

Superworld Rally Team and its second iteration in the early 2000s.

Um, so I've kind of seen it from both sides.

I've seen it from the, you know, the sponsor side and I've seen it from

obviously the, the, the, the, the media side, the presenter, the commentator,

the inverted commerce journalistic side of it.

I've seen as well.

So yeah, I guess it is a reasonably unique set of experiences that I have in it.

And I always think it, you know, it does qualify me to comment on, on what's

going on in the sport.

Yeah.

Very much so.

Now, Ryan, I know we were talking about the world, the word rally and it gets

used in so many different ways, doesn't it?

It does.

Um, so Colin, how would you describe, I guess, what

I would call the noble sport of rally rallying is, is, is the purest form of

motorsport in my, my books, you know, these are cars that, um, you can more

or less buy in the, the, the showroom on the Monday morning.

Um, okay, you know, there's the argument with the space frames at the very

highest level.

We've moved away from that.

Uh, but we're on proper roads.

Um, we're, we're, we don't have arm course.

We don't have sand traps.

We don't have runoffs.

Uh, it is man and machine against the elements.

Uh, the roads.

And, and I think that is the absolute purest form of motorsport.

You know, when we see road racing on motorbikes, well, it doesn't really get

much more real for bikes.

Well, this is the same thing I suppose for, for cars.

And, and you know, this is the interesting thing for me, Ryan, is, is, is, you know,

you're, you're a big, obviously motoring person.

You, you, you're deeply involved in cars and in motorsport.

And I just, I wonder why rallying has struggled to take off in America.

Cause for me, it's so well suited for the Americas.

There's adventure.

There's excitement.

There's drama.

There's big cars with big engines.

There's jeopardy.

There's everything you could want, you know, as an American kind of motorsport

fine, but it struggles to, it struggles to get any traction.

And I wonder why that is, Ryan.

I don't know because it is great racing and there's a little bit of everything.

And I think the level of skill is arguably much higher than other forms of racing.

And I think it's so social media friendly too.

Right.

I mean, it's, it's made for like 2026.

Right.

It's, it's, uh, I don't know.

I don't know.

Maybe we just, we have a spoil of riches here in the States.

Right.

And, you know what, yeah, but, but you've absolutely hit it on the head

with the social media friendly side of things.

And I'm sure we'll get onto this as we talk a bit further, but you'll

see a lot of, a lot of discussion, a lot of debate, a lot of, um, you know,

there are controversy over the promotion of the sport just now.

And we're, we're just in the process of changing promoters.

And for a sport that is so, so right for the picking when it comes to social media.

Um, we let ourselves down by ugly and we're not, and that comes from the very top.

You know, we, uh, company I work for, Dirtbush, we do a fantastic job of it,

that you'll be sport itself.

The promoter, the WRC needs to be doing a whole load, load more than they are doing.

And it was, um, uh, who was the last guy, the English guy that ran the FIA a few years ago?

Help me out, Dan.

Um, a lot of controversy around him when he got caught in a slightly

compromising position.

Uh, what was his name at the FIA?

Oh, not mostly.

Max Mosley, mostly, Max Mosley, Max Mosley.

And, and, you know, whether or not you, you, you agreed with a lot that Max Mosley

did or said he was quite an intelligent guy who understood motorsport.

And one of the last things he said before he retired was, and this is what, 15 years

ago, I guess, Dan, that you retired must be 50, maybe more than that now.

15, 18 years ago, he said, um, in terms of all the assets that the FIA have, all the

championships that they cover, he said rallying is positioned perfectly to take

advantage of, and he was a bit of a visionary to take advantage of this

explosion in social media.

Now, social media was hardly a thing.

Well, it was, but not such a big thing 15, 18 years ago, but Max Mosley

recognized that, um, and we've, we've, we've let ourselves down as a sport.

We have let ourselves down and it's a shame, um, because we could have been, I

suspect, a lot more popular in places like the States and other parts of the

world if we'd actually jumped on that social media explosion and exploited it.

The thing I don't get is the elements that have originated in rally have made

it big in the U.S.

So you look at the Jim Carna series, for example, original with Ken Block and

obviously more recently with Travis, um, and the skills that they are using have

originated from their rally skills, but they get multi, multi million views.

The rally piece just doesn't seem to get picked up.

Well, I'll give you a story.

I'll give you a story which looking back seems almost unbelievable, but it's why

the current promoter has been so, um, so widely castigated for the lack of vision,

the lack of ability.

Um, Ken Block, you know, uh, a man that I watched for many, many years, he

competed in the World Rally Championship regularly.

And I remember when he first appeared with Travis 2006, 2007, so we're doing

the second level, if you like, and then Ken progressed into the top level.

Um, but Ken, at that point, you know, I remember going to Mexico and you

couldn't move when Ken and Travis were around.

They were absolute superstars.

Forget Sebastian Loeb as it was at the time and Pettus Allberg and the

top names in rallying.

You only could quite happily walk through the streets of Mexico.

Ken Block, Travis Pastrana.

It was the closest thing to, uh, your adulation that I've ever seen.

It was incredible.

You know, there were huge names around the world in the, the, the early days

of social media and Ken went, you know, when he progressed to the highest

level of sport, he could see there were issues and he went to the promoter

and offered his services said, I can help you with this guys.

You know, maybe one of the most six remember Ken, Ken was an older guy.

You know, he wasn't one of these young upstart, you know, upstarts that kind

of, uh, you know, the young kids basically affiliated with it.

Ken was a bit older.

He understood these things and he said, I can, I can help you with this.

And he said, uh, thanks very much.

No, thanks.

It's just, it's just inconceivable to think that anyone would turn down Ken

Block with all his ability to understand social media, to harness all of the

potential of that, you know, and this is when, you know, Jim Khanna was

already a big success.

So, so that's, that's just an indication of, of where we've, where we've

stuffed up along the way, sadly, but we're looking for a brighter future.

I think it's there.

The great thing is that rallying has all of those assets you need to be

successful in a, in a, in a modern media environment.

It's got all the assets, you know, and we're just waiting to, for someone

to come along and say, this is how you exploit it.

Yeah, yeah.

You take someone off, you know, take an alien off a UFO and put them down and

show them, I don't know, NASCAR and show them rally and they're going to go

rally every time, right?

I mean, the product is, is superior.

I mean, truly, right?

You've got all the elements.

It is.

And, and it's, it's, you know, the, the product is superior, I think.

Um, uh, and I think the drivers, as you already mentioned, they're superior as well.

There's another great story about, um, uh, Ayrton Senna.

No, it wasn't Ayrton.

It was Michael Schumacher.

Michael Schumacher, who had a home in Sweden, very close to where, um, Subaru

were testing for rally Sweden, middle of winter.

And Schumacher turned up at the test.

Schumacher turned up.

He was a Subaru World Rally Team.

Betta Solberg was testing and Schumacher just came along.

He heard there was a test.

So they got him in the car, uh, with Peter, uh, and they had a few runs.

And apparently Michael got out of the car and said, uh, he said,

there is no way in the world that I could do what you are doing.

He said, but I fully suspect that you can do what I'm doing.

That's what he said to Peter Solberg.

So from, from maybe the greatest Formula One driver that there's ever been,

uh, it shows the level, the level of kind of appreciation that these guys have

of what the rally drivers are doing.

But, but yeah, it is odd.

But do you know, I think it's, it's such a cultural thing with the states,

you know, you guys love social occasions quite clearly.

And you love sporting social occasions and something like NASCAR or any of

your big, roundy, roundy races, um, you know, it just offers a great, a great,

a great social sporting occasion.

Doesn't it?

Rallying is a little bit different.

It's more adventurous.

It's more smaller groups.

You've got to get out into the forest and you're always on the move.

You're always chasing the cars.

Remember Dan, that event we did.

Always chasing the cars around the countryside.

It's not such, um, I'm not saying it's not social because it is social.

You know, the weekend in Sweden, I was in a spectator area and there was

so much fun being had there.

It was nuts.

Yeah.

But, but maybe not quite the sort of social environment that the American

motor sport fans are looking for.

But I think you can learn, Ryan.

I think you can learn.

I think, and I think we can teach you and we can help you learn.

I'm an individualist.

I mean, this, this is appealing to me.

I don't really want to go sit in a big stadium, you know, under the

baking sun and drink, you know, 23 Bud lights.

I mean, that's just not really me.

You know, I mean, something like this really appeals.

Being in Colorado started going to, to the Pike's Peak, you know, race every

year, the hill climb rather is what they say.

And it's very much, I think what the rally experience must be like in that,

you know, you're in one place, you see one car go by and then you do a

little hike and then you find a new corner or something and you're in the

woods and it's great and it's, you know, I mean, yeah, so you don't have a

food truck, you know, 50 feet away or whatever, but it's an adventure to your

point and you know that you're stuck there until the race is done.

It's kind of great.

It did it a good time.

Yeah, it was fun.

It was, it was fun.

We got up way too early, but other than that, it was, it was a very good experience.

But did you get to the top, though?

Did you get right to the top of the mountain?

Is that an effort?

Been before, done it before, but on that occasion we stayed at the bottom

because you could get access to the service path, you could actually talk to

the drivers, you know, you, we had press passes.

So we then hiked up and we were able to take photographs on corners and stuff.

But yeah, not right to the top.

But it was an interesting year.

It was two years ago and it was a long day.

So the drivers that got up there.

So is it Danny Sandano?

Who's the, he's a WRC driver.

Oh, Danny Sordle, Danny Sordle.

Yeah, he was, he was there in the Hyundai.

Was he?

So he was, he was complaining because he was stuck up there for like nine hours.

Oh boy.

I spoke to him briefly at Goodwood afterwards and he was like,

I was there for nine hours at the top and there was nothing to do.

So, but the actual spectating of watching it is awesome.

Yeah, you need to come and cover that one, Cole.

Yeah.

No, I do.

I absolutely do.

And you know, I've talked to various people that have done it and they all say the same thing.

It's just one of the world's great motorsport challenges.

You know, when you talk to Michelle Mouton about it and she'll, she'll,

she'll tell you some great stories about bike speak, about how the Americans,

for sure, didn't she win it and she was disqualified or something?

So you had some controversy.

Yeah, yeah.

And I think it was 40 years ago last year.

Yeah.

But she was like, they didn't want a woman to win it.

So they put as many boundaries in the way as they could.

But things have changed a lot since then.

Amelia Hartford did very well last year, I think, Ryan.

Yeah, yeah.

Lani Yonser has done very well.

What are the cars they're using?

I mean, I'm thinking back to the days where Monster Tujima used to do it

in a ridiculous Suzuki with like a thousand horsepower

and that perjure they made for Sebastian Loeb to drive up the hill.

Are they one-off designs that one-off builds these days?

It's, I think, the most diverse group of cars you'll ever see at a single event

because there is homebrew stuff.

That's like the most amazing part about bike speak, right?

You know, it's families.

It's fathers and sons and grandfathers and granddaughters and things.

And they're running stuff they've built literally in their barn.

And then you mentioned Hyundai and these factory teams where, you know,

they're all in the matching outfits and they're, you know, they're

fielding eight cars or whatever.

And, you know, the EVs are a big part of it now.

But you have, you know, pickup trucks from the 1950s with 900 horsepower

and a big stack sticking out of the front hood, right?

And, you know, the next car is a 240SX, right?

That's struggling to, you know, you know, at the higher at the higher altitude.

So it's a mix, you know, I think as far as what's been winning recently,

it's a lot of EV stuff, right?

I mean, Ford very famously ran that that bread van thing a couple of years ago.

I've been in that. Have you really?

Oh, my God, what did they call that?

It looks like with the mass, with romantic mass.

No, I was in it with

Manfred Stoll and we did.

We did a stage of the Catalonia rally in Spain.

So we went through before the rally cars came through.

It was the most bizarre experience.

It looked to me like the Scooby Doo van.

And that's what I call it.

That's a very similar profile. Yeah.

It looked like the Scooby Doo van.

But what did it have?

It had a thousand plus horsepower and it was it made me feel quite sick.

I have to say, it was a strange, strange experience.

But we were actually following Michelle

because Michelle was the the safety commander on the stage.

And we were following her through the stage

and she did stop us at one point and say,

you just need to be a bit careful with this thing.

And Manfred, who is a fabulous driver?

He just let her get, you know, seven or eight corners in front.

And then we floored it and it was bonkers.

Absolutely bonkers.

Yeah, a kind of experience that you kind of you get out of and go,

yeah, did I enjoy that?

I don't care.

Is there a hell of an experience?

You've had a few interesting experiences

with professional drivers and cars, haven't you?

Can you talk about any of them?

Yeah.

Yeah, look, I am.

You know, I was I was in the Disney Park here today.

And my favorite ride was the I can't remember what it's called.

But it was in the kids kids part of Magic Kingdom

because it was a really gentle roller coaster.

You know, I'm not going on anything else.

I'm the world's biggest coward.

The world's biggest coward, the world's biggest coward.

But yeah, I had a crash a few years ago in a car

with a guy in Australia called Brendan Reeves.

And it was odd because I knew we were going to crash.

And I had a really uneasy feeling about this.

And Brendan had been on to me all week about going with him.

And he's a fabulous driver,

one of the best drivers in Australia.

And this section of road we were on,

he'd driven it eight or nine times that morning without any problems.

And we got in the car and there's a video of me saying, you know,

I shouldn't be doing this.

You know, I've always said I'll never get into a little car again.

And then five minutes later, we're up in the air at 90 miles

an hour spinning around and having smashed into a bank.

And we got back and my cameraman producer said to him, I said, look,

I said, and you, and you were going to crash.

And he went, yes, so did I.

He said, I had the feeling that you drove off.

He told me and we could have had a little discussion and we couldn't.

But no, I've had a few.

I've had a few like that where it's all been

a little bit entertaining.

But you know, any of those things,

whenever you get into a car with a professional driver,

whatever type of car it is,

you understand what they do and it gives you such a better understanding.

Particularly if, like me, you know, you're paid to commentate

and you're paid to understand what's going on.

The best way to understand is to get in a car.

I'm not suggesting the best way to understand is to have a crash.

Maybe not ideal, but no, I've been lucky over the years.

I've been in some some cars with some of the world's best drivers.

And and I wouldn't say I've enjoyed every minute of it because I am a coward.

But I've appreciated every minute of it.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, I read somewhere, Colin,

that you say that you have the best job in the world.

And I tend to believe that.

But how did this all start?

I mean, for you, go way back.

What's was your path?

I am fortunate, Ryan, and that, you know, I have seen the other side.

You know, I did work in corporate life for 12 years,

working for a tobacco company.

I worked in marketing that I worked in in promotion.

I moved from brand marketing for tobacco company into promotion.

And we it was part of our promotion portfolio.

We were involved in sponsorship and, you know, we sponsored, for example,

the it was at a time where we had our own Formula One team.

So it was the B.R. Formula One team.

And remember, we had that ridiculous car with the split livery that was zipped up

the middle with the five, five, five. Yeah.

Yeah, it was a large time. So the nineties, you know, five, five, five,

one side and Lucky Strike on the other side.

So we as a company, as a company, we had our own Formula One team.

I don't think this is protected information.

I think it's well known.

But in the three years, the first three years of that project,

they spent, we spent one billion dollars, one billion dollars

and achieved nothing, absolutely nothing.

So. So basically what happened was the boss, the big, big boss of BAT,

the big marketing director.

There's a guy called David Richards.

Have you come across David Ryan?

David Richards runs a company.

He runs a company called Pro Drive.

Oh, sure. Absolutely.

And he also has also been involved in Formula One.

So our boss wanted David Richards to come and run his Formula One team

because even by tobacco standards, a billion dollars and three years

with no, no results is difficult.

It's a lot of cigarettes. Yeah.

It's a lot of cigarettes to sell.

So David Richards, who had the Subaru World Rally Team at the time,

he said, yeah, I'll quite happily come and run your Formula One team.

And he took the whole of the rally team.

So the sporting director, the marketing director, the sales director,

the engineers took them all, moved them to Banbury,

which is where the Formula One team was based.

And went out to dinner with Rymyshevsky, the head of BAT.

And Rymyshevsky's, you know, quite got a big, bluff bloke scared me,

scared a lot of people.

And he asked David whether everything was OK.

And David said, yeah, yeah, yeah, fine.

We're all set to go Formula One team, all the people in place.

So we've got a small problem with the rally team.

And apparently, Rymyshevsky turned around and said, what's rally?

What's a rally team?

You very little about it.

David said, your biggest, your biggest rival is looking to

well, they've offered us a lot of money to sponsor.

And he said, it won't look right.

It won't look right if your biggest rival sponsors the rally team.

And I'm working for your Formula One team.

And Rymyshevsky said, well, how much? How much?

And the story goes that Richard said,

well, it's a three year deal and it's five million dollars.

And Rymyshevsky just said, OK, I'll give you 15 million for the three years.

And Richard's meant five million over three years.

So so basically this this happened on a Wednesday night

on the Thursday morning, I got a phone call saying,

we're going back on the side of the Subaru, you know,

and no one else in the company was particularly interested in rallying

because we had this enormous, really sexy involvement with Formula One.

So I'm told it was it was it was very late in December.

You know, we're going back on the side of the Subaru

and we're launching in Monte Carlo in a few weeks time.

And that was the time I had an interest in all motorsports,

but not not a particular passion for rallying.

But I went to Monte Carlo, set all up.

We got we got going with internal kind of launch

and then the external launch.

And I turned up and my first morning was in a helicopter at Monte Carlo.

I'd never been in a helicopter in my life.

And as I've already said, I'm a complete coward.

We're bumping our way up the hall between.

I'm thinking, I want out. This isn't this isn't fun.

You know, I really want out.

And there's a little Irish guy next to me and he's going, you'll be all right.

You'll be fine. Don't worry about it. A little old Irishman.

So he'd be absolutely fine.

He says it's your first time.

So no, first time in a helicopter, first time at a rally.

And he starts telling me all about the rally

and starts telling me a lot about your Monte Carlo rally about the cars.

And we get down to the stage we parked part as you do with the helicopter

parked at the side of the stage.

And he's talking me through the cars.

He's going, I'll just watch the line of this car.

And I turn around to my events.

I went, you seem to know an awful lot about this.

And he went, I won this event in 1964 in the mini.

And it was it was a legendary Paddy Hopcock.

And I've been sitting next to him for an hour.

Discussing, he'd been educating me.

So I spent my first morning rallying with Paddy Hopcock.

And it was just the best way.

It was the best introduction.

And at that point, it was like, oh, yeah, yeah, I think I could quite enjoy the sport.

And yeah, and we had went about a year.

Then then the UK government banned tobacco sponsorship.

So so I left took my redundancy.

And then then started missing rallying after about a year of being redundant.

And I set up a website selling motorsport ringtones.

And you boys are probably just about old enough to remember.

Sure.

People were making a lot of money from ringtones.

And I was going to become a ringtone millionaire.

I love it.

I have this brilliant idea.

It was speedtones.com, right?

So if you were a fan of Pedersalberg, if you were a fan of Jack Villeneuve,

you could have the sound of his car as your ringtone.

What could go wrong?

You know, brilliant idea, instant millionaire.

It didn't quite work out like that.

But I needed to record some sounds.

So I went to a rally and a friend of mine said, well, you know,

borrow some equipment from the guy who does the radio.

He's got some really good sound equipment.

So I went to speak to him and I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, you can borrow my equipment,

but you've got to do me a favor.

We're short of staff this weekend.

So I want you to help me out and do some interviews.

I can do this.

Yeah, why not?

I need these equipment.

So I'll just I'll just I'll just say yes to it.

And and I tell you what, I remember it was it was actually Cyprus.

And I stood at the end of the first stage and I've never known anything like it.

It was so totally intoxicating.

You've already been around rallying for a while,

but in a slightly more rarefied sort of atmosphere as a sponsor.

And just seeing seeing the damage to the cars,

you sensing and smelling the emotions and the fear at the stage

and from the drivers.

And at that point, I thought, no, speedtones can be someone else's million dollar problem.

I'm off to do I'm off to do radio.

And that's how I got involved.

It's a very long story.

That's fantastic. That's how I got involved.

That's how I got involved in rallying.

That was 20, 25, 26 years ago.

And I've been very, very lucky in that, you know, every year since then,

someone has wanted to pay me to work in rallying.

So it was a very fortuitous way in, I have to say.

But yeah, I must have been good at something because I'm still still here.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

So few people get to do something they love, right?

We seem to have a lot of them on the show, which is cool.

But but most people just.

You know, that's so special.

It is special.

And when when your job doesn't feel like a job, it's special.

But when you can really appreciate it as well.

I'm not saying that, you know, not everyone goes jobs like mine.

Appreciate them.

But you know, I did work in corporate life for 12 years, 15 years, you know,

so to come from a job we should do, you know, a lot of us are kind of prostitutes

to our work, aren't we? Yeah, you know, we don't love it necessarily,

but we do it because it pays well or whatever it might be.

It's convenient, whatever it might be.

But to actually be in a position, you know, I grew up wanting to be a golfer.

I grew up wanting to play, you know, the open championship is in Andrews.

But I get that feeling every week, every time I go to a rally now, you know,

I get that I'm, you know, I'm in a position where I'm part of what I think

is the greatest motorsport in the world.

And I'm privileged to be able to talk to the drivers, to talk to the fans,

the team bosses and it's like that.

It's like playing playing in the open of the Masters every time I go to a rally.

I get that kind of buzz is wonderful.

It's very, very cool.

I can't remember who said it, but someone said travel broadens the mind.

And with the World Rally, which obviously you cover, you know,

one week you'll be in the coldest part of Sweden.

You know, the next week you'll be obviously on vacation in Florida,

but the week after you'll be in Africa covering.

So you get to travel the world.

We have a lot of fans in Peru.

Are there any rallies near Peru that you've been to?

Yes, fully enough, then there are.

Yeah, there's, well, the Dakar went to Peru, didn't it?

But we go to we go to Paraguay and we go to Chile.

So I don't think that's too far from Peru.

And then we used to go to Mexico.

So that's a bit north of Peru, I guess, isn't it?

But no, we do go and rallying in South America is really, really popular.

They've got a really strong rallying community out there.

The level of rallying in South America, particularly in places like Paraguay

and Chile and Argentina, obviously, is really, really high, really high.

Our timing is perfect.

Having you on, yeah, let's do a shout out to everyone in Peru,

because we are number one in the automated podcast in Peru.

So we're not quite there for the US yet.

But I believe that Peru is always a leading edge listening group.

So it's only a matter of time, right?

Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you. What's your favorite rally to cover around the world and why?

Um, I do know that's a really difficult one

because I genuinely do enjoy them all

and I enjoy going along, I enjoy the the diversity in rallying.

And it's, you know, it is so diverse, it's quite difficult to pick a favorite.

But there was a time where I could all I could never tell you what my favorite was,

but I could always tell you which one I would miss, which my least favorite was.

And that was rally GB, my home rally.

I hated it for so many years, so many years.

I really disliked going to rally GB,

not because of the quality of the rallying, because the stages were magnificent,

but purely because of the people that ran the rally.

It's like anything, you know, the culture that the the the the organizers create

quite often is is how the rally is perceived.

And GB used to be a horrible one for me, really horrible.

Just disliked it, really dislike going.

But if you said, where do I like going?

I love going to Australia. I do quite a lot of work in Australia.

And sadly, there's no there's no round of the World Rally Championship in Australia just now.

But I cover the Targa series.

Dan, I'd love to see you down there for Targa one year.

I tell you, we should try and do something where we get there's a wonderful experience,

the Targa tour, five days, thousands and thousands of kilometers.

Oh, my goodness, it's great fun.

But, you know, I love those events.

More and more as I'm getting a little bit older and I'm getting a little tired

of the politics of, say, the World Rally Championship.

I kind of find myself gravitating towards more local events.

I do an event in South Australia called the Heartland Rally.

It's a blind rally, so no pace notes, just route notes,

which is quite a skill in itself to be able to and requires a lot of commitment.

But that's 550 Ks over two days of just, you know, in the Australian outback.

And it's astonishing, just a great community.

It's a great, it's a great leveler, you know, you're sitting around the campsite in the evening

and you're the bloke across there.

She sold these business for one and a half billion.

The guy next year works for $10 an hour.

And they're all sitting, they're all sitting, having a beer and a chat and talking about shared experiences.

And I love that.

I love getting back to the grassroots, the rallying, the basics.

And it's just, it just reminds me what's great about the sport.

Politics gets in the way of any sport, any sport.

And I find that more and more over the years at the very highest level,

politics has been a real hindrance to the World Rally Championship.

But, you know, as I say, I think things are changing and moving on.

But yeah, in terms of my favorites, if I had to name one, if I had to name one.

No, I couldn't. Sorry.

But probably one of the ones that were in Australia and New Zealand.

The Otago, let's say the Otago Rally.

Let's say the Otago in New Zealand.

I absolutely, Blumen, love that event.

It is, it is just a special event with special people and special cars.

Mark II Escorts, if you're a fan of the Mark II Escort,

the Otago Rally in New Zealand,

you'll see 40 or 50 of the best Mark II Rallying Escorts you'll find anywhere.

It's astonishing. There we go.

Let's talk about the cars a little bit, if we could.

How have they changed in the 25 years that you've been at this?

Look, you know, we've seen various different manufacturers

come and go from the sport over the years.

And yeah, particularly in the 20 or 30 years I've been involved, 25 years.

But, you know, the DNA of rallying was what I talked about earlier on.

The fact that these cars were always based on the chassis of the road cars.

So even at the highest level, our world rally cars, you know,

they were all irregistered, you know, the focus is the Volkswagen's.

They were all road going car chassis

that were then turned into these incredible, you know, machines on the stages.

That's changed over the past three or four years.

At the top level, it's now space frame based.

For the purest, that's a problem.

It's not such a problem for me because these cars still look like the road going versions.

But, you know, we'd be slightly held back, I think, by when we had the chassis.

There was certain segments within the motoring industry.

So, you know, we were talking about Volkswagen Polos.

We were talking about Ford Fiestas.

We were talking, you know, Citroen DS3s.

You know, these are small cars and very specific to certain markets.

With space frame, the manufacturers can put whatever they like on, you know.

If you want to put a Ram 500 into a world rally car, you can do it, right?

You can do it, it'll look blimmy strange.

The aerodynamics might not be great, but you can do it, you know, you can do it.

So, so the biggest change is being this shift towards at the top level,

space frame chassis and that's been a bit of an issue for the absolute purest.

But as I say for me, it's not an issue.

You know, what we have to do is we have to be as appealing as we can.

And that's in terms of the segments that we were allowed to to rally.

And in terms of the, you know, for a while, we were heading as a lot of motorsport

was headlong towards electric.

And then it was like, you know, this really isn't something

that's achievable in the near future.

So the new regulations they brought out, they covered just about any type

of of trans of, you know, of engine, you know, it can be electric,

it can be hybrid, it can be diesel in the first year.

It'll be a first few years, it'll be a standard ice petrol engine.

But, you know, the regulations will allow for the manufacturers to say,

this is where we're going and this is how we would like to prove our cars in rallying.

You know, and if it is electric, we'll come along and the regulations will allow that.

So it's becoming a lot more inclusive in terms of the type of cars that are involved.

And we've learned that from Dakar, you know, Dakar basically said,

you'll whoever wants to come, you bring what you want and we'll we'll find

the equilibrium in terms of the sporting side of it.

And they did it very well in Dakar and I think they can do very well in rallying.

Yeah, yeah, because they had Okta debut this year for Dakar, didn't it?

The Land Rover Okta, the Defender Okta.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was a factory team from Land Rover.

I think they did pretty well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

OK, Sarah Price, Sarah Price is driving for them.

What a fantastic example of, you know, the system in America.

She is, she's done a great job just working her way through the ranks and proving herself.

She's a hugely talented girl, really enormously talented.

I saw her winning her first stage at Dakar and I think she was only the second

or third woman to win a stage out, not outright in her class.

Yeah, Dakar and when someone does that, you sit up and take notice.

Sarah is a very talented girl.

Well, you're a Land Rover, but we go back a few years at Dakar and we had Audi

with their supposed electric vehicle that wasn't electric.

You had four DTM engines, basically powering the electric motors.

But, you know, Audi wanted to run Dakar as a marketing and, I guess,

an engineering experiment and the Dakar organizers said, yeah, bring it in.

And we'll we'll find we'll find a way of not not so much balance of performance,

but, you know, our equalization of technology, but we'll find the way

of making it all fair and it worked. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You talked a bit about, you know, the cars going to space frame and this kind of thing.

Something Dan and I have talked about is the cars being based on the cars

that, you know, you knew growing up and we didn't have that here in the States, right?

A lot of these cars were foreign to us, right?

So I think that's changed.

I think every 10th car here in Colorado anymore is a WRX, right?

But it probably isn't.

It's probably a Forester, but there are a lot of them, right?

I feel like that is sort of a climate has changed.

Where the car we now know the cars, right? We now know the cars.

But, you know, Dan talks about, you know, what was the car you lusted after as a as a kid?

Was it a I think we had it was the Mercurre, but it was it?

Well, yeah, the old Sierra Cosworth and the Sierra Cosworth.

And it just didn't, you know, we just grew up with different stuff, too, you know.

But that's so important, though, isn't it?

And I guess, yeah, that could be part of the reason, a good part of the reason

why maybe rallying hasn't quite as yet taken off in the States.

You know, there has to be something that's recognisable and desirable there, isn't it?

You know, we were running the fiestas for years.

And did you ever have the fiestas in the States? I'm not.

We did. I don't think it was the same same car.

We had a little three cylinder in the 90s, right, which was kind of the bottom barrel,

tiny little thing, you know, I don't think we've really had the good fiestas.

But until recently, until recently, until with the SD and all that.

So this room is that next year, there may be a WRC round in the US.

Do you think that's going to happen?

Yeah, look, it's enormously important.

I mean, how can you have a top level worldwide competition without the US?

Well, unless it's all American football.

I was watching the Seahawks won the Super Bowl the other week

and there was a bus that went through the centre of Seattle.

And sorry, we'll come back in a minute.

But this is important to me because the bus, the front of this bus,

had Seattle Seahawks, world champions.

They won the Super Bowl, but no other country was allowed to enter.

Yeah, yeah.

But going back to your point, sorry, Colin.

But that's, yeah, that's, that's an interesting concept, isn't it?

How do you can be world champions?

An interesting concept.

Yeah, for another day, a debate for another day.

I can't remember what I was saying now, Dan.

Yeah, we were talking about where they come to Chattanooga, Tennessee.

Yeah, yeah, look, you know, last time we were in the states was the Olympus rally.

And that was what, 30 years ago?

I don't know, it was a long, long time ago.

And we were never in the States on a regular basis.

It's a project that's been ongoing for many, many years.

And I love rallying in America.

But there are issues, there are issues with, obviously, the geography.

You know, you're on a championship in Britain, and the most you're going to have

to do is drive 500 miles to get to an event.

You know, you've got guys that are driving three and a half thousand miles

across America from one event to the other.

You know, the level of rallying and the championship in the States,

you know, it's taken a little while to build it and to build up to a level

that could then perhaps translate into a round of the World Rally Championship.

But there have been some really big efforts from some very talented people

to find the right place to rally in the States.

That's another big issue.

To find the team to put the rally on, maybe even a bigger issue.

And then to find your way to sell that, to sell that to Americans.

And it's looking really positive.

There's a really strong team that have been put together by,

I forget the guy's name.

You might know his name, Dan.

The guy who's heading up.

Is Lance involved with it?

Lance involved, but not Lance knows.

It's a guy who's got a tremendous background in promotion and sports promotion,

not of motor sports of other, which I think is great.

I think part of the problem with rallying is we've got too many people.

Yeah, we need people with outside ideas.

But yeah, Chattanooga is looking good for the base for the rally.

There is what they call a candidate event.

So a test event, if you like, taking place in June this year.

And fingers crossed, they'll confirm that the US will be back on the calendar

after WRC next year.

And that'll be the first time in 30 plus years.

And it'll be exciting, exciting just to see, you know, how well it's received.

And then what the legacy is, there needs to be a legacy.

And the legacy for me has to be rallying in America and the growth

and the strength of the American Rally Championship.

And I'm hoping that there are a lot of positives come out of the WRC coming to America.

But we have to be there. Goodness me.

We've got Hyundai or however you guys say it, I say it differently

from most other Scots people.

So I don't know how you pronounce Hyundai, but you've got Hyundai big in the US.

Ford, obviously enormous.

We've got other manufacturers looking to come into the championship.

If we've got around in America, it really does strengthen that proposition

for them as well. So it's so important that we come to America.

It's so important that when we do come to America, we get it right and we do it properly.

I'm excited. I'm excited already by it.

Absolutely. So Colin, you're an American like you're showing up.

Brian, sorry. I would love to.

I would love to.

You're number one on my VIP list.

That has never happened to me in my life, so I will be there.

I appreciate that.

So what am I looking for when I come?

What am I what am I watching out for?

What do I need to know? Like what's break it down for me?

OK, so, you know, number one, it's fun and it's an adventure.

So, you know, for me, there's a tremendous movement

and young people away from this this data kind of electronic.

You know, they want to find something they can get into that doesn't involve them

sitting on their phones all day or whatever.

And rallying is a great opportunity for like minded people

to get out into the countryside to discover.

You know, I discovered some of the most beautiful places in Scotland

where I come from through rallying.

You know, it's an opportunity for folk who are in that area to go out

and to find parts of the countryside that perhaps they didn't even know existed.

And then to get yourself in a position where you can actually sit and appreciate

on roads that you look at and go, I'm not even sure I want to drive that road

to watch cars coming down those roads at 100, 110 mile an hour.

It's the biggest thrill.

And, and, you know, and part of the fun, it's a three day event,

might even be a three and a half day event.

It's about getting out.

It's about, you know, getting the maps, getting hold of maps, not Google Maps,

but getting hold of proper maps and and planning your route,

planning your weekend, planning who you want to see and getting out there

and making a week of it and just enjoying the absolute adventure.

And here's the great thing.

You get to the service part, wherever that might be,

and they're not going to keep you 50 feet, 100 feet, 200 feet from the cars

and the drivers, you will practically be able to touch the mechanics

as they're servicing the cars.

You will walk through the service part with the greatest drivers

in the world walking through.

It is such a real sport.

You know, there's nothing.

You know, there's nothing pretentious or poncy or stuck up about rallying.

It's a proper, proper sport.

And then at the end of the evening, you can go and hopefully watch them

going around the streets of Chattanooga and have a few beers or a glass of wine.

Does it get any better?

I'm not sure it does get any better than that.

Yeah, I think it does.

And just as a public service announcement, if you do go to one of these rallies,

please don't touch any of the mechanics.

They don't like it.

That's not what I hear, Dan.

Some of them do, but that's that's a different story from other days.

That's another podcast.

You're a bit of a celebrity in the paddocks, though, Cole.

So, yeah, maybe they treat it differently when you touch them.

Well, no, it's a great event.

But if you do go along and you know, I think there'll be a lot of rally

newbies going along and it is really, really important just to

to familiarise yourself with the safety issues because, you know,

you'll go to places where there are no fences, there are no paddocks.

There, you know, you will be on your own.

You'll be free spectating.

How great is that free spectating?

But you need to be careful.

You know, it can be a danger.

Sport cars can do very, very unpredictable things.

So, you know, I would just ask that anyone going along just familiarises themselves

with the basics, you know, never stand on the outside of a corner.

Never, ever stand on the outside of a corner because if a car is going to go off,

that's where it's going to hit you.

Just be aware if it's gravel, which it will be rocks.

You know, I've been hitting the head, taking what I think are the greatest

photographs and then bang, you get hit in the head by a rock.

It turns through on your day.

So things like that.

Just, you know, just go along and spectate, have fun,

you know, treat it as the adventure that it is.

But obviously, number one is the safety side of things.

We need to make sure that everyone is spectating safely and I'm sure they will.

Yeah. And there's usually there's usually folks with vests on.

So, you know, if in doubt, there's nothing to be lost by asking.

Absolutely. Right.

And they'll be plenty.

Yeah, they'll be plenty.

I'm sure beforehand in terms of your there'll be plenty of little bits

and pieces on Instagram and Facebook and all the digital outlets.

Just to explain to people what what to do, what not to do.

Where to go, you know, but that's a great thing.

They'll tell you where you should go.

And the great thing is you can choose to go there or you can maybe just go

where you want as long as you do safely.

Right. It's great.

Good.

Lots of iconic drivers over the last 20 odd years.

Any favorite drivers, whether that's because of their talent

or just the rapport that you've built with them?

Yeah, my absolute favorite driver is Sebastian Oje.

Well, he is one of those guys.

You know, he's an absolute when it comes to the world greatness.

You know, this guy is, I think, one of the greatest drivers we've ever seen.

I would argue he's the greatest rally driver that we've ever seen.

You know, okay, he's won nine titles, Loeb's won nine titles.

Others, he might argue, won fewer titles, but were more talented.

But Loeb won all of his rallies, bar one, with Citroen.

Won all of his titles with Citroen.

Citroen built a car for him every year and he won.

And I'm not taking anything away from Loeb's achievements.

They were quite remarkable, utter domination during the naughties.

But then Oje came along and, you know, he drove a Volkswagen,

won his first title of Volkswagen.

The FI didn't like the absolute domination that he was asserting over everyone.

So they changed the rules to try and stop him winning.

They changed the rules to try and stop Oje winning.

And all it did was make him more determined and he still won.

He still won when they changed the rules to try and stop him.

He went to M Sport, you know, the absolute underdogs in the paddock.

And he shook them by the scruff of the net and he took them to the first

manufacturer's title, one driver's titles with M Sport, went back to Citroen.

Had a bit of a torrid time there, but went to Toyota.

Won a title or two, I think, won one title with Toyota.

Might have been two, I can't remember.

Then he retired, came back part time last year and won the championship

as a part time driver.

I mean, and do you know, on top of that, he was never, for me, he's

he reminds me a lot.

I said earlier, I was a golfer.

He reminded me of a lot of, you know, when he was focused, he was just

his focus was purely on driving and winning.

And the kind of fallout from that is that occasionally you'll say something,

you'll do something that's taken badly, you know, it's perceived as being

arrogant or rude or whatever.

It's not. It is the sign of champions.

It's the focus of the world's very best.

And I saw it when I was younger with Sevill Balisteros, the greatest

golfer that ever walked this earth.

And I was at the the open in 1983, 13 years old, the open championship

in St Andrews with my little brother, big brother at the time.

And we were camping 13 and 14 years old at St Andrews getting all these autographs

with the program, we're getting the autographs Balisteros.

He we followed him during the practice.

We followed him all day trying to get his autograph.

And he in his in his Spanish said, no, no, no, end of end of the round,

back up the clubhouse and dismissed everyone, dismissed everyone.

So all your little army of little friends that I'd made all went to

the back of the clubhouse. Who walks out first, Arnold Palmer?

Arnold Palmer walks out at the back of the clubhouse on the 18th

years and he spent 45 minutes signing autographs talking to all the kids.

Sevill appears having promised all these kids he was going to sign

the autographs, jumped in his car and drove off.

And at the time, at the time, I thought, what a.

You know, at 13 years old, I thought, what a nasty piece of work.

Yeah, who won the open that year?

Balisteros, Balisteros.

Who's the greatest golfer that ever walked this earth?

Balisteros, the nicest golfer that ever walked this earth.

Quite possibly Balisteros, but in that moment, he was a tosser.

He really was, but because we didn't understand.

We don't walk in the footsteps or the shoes of these people.

We don't understand what it takes to be a world champion.

It was the same with Sebastian Oshie.

People criticized him because he seemed as if he was rude as if he was arrogant

as if some of the things he did were unsporting.

No, all of that made him what he was and what he is,

you know, an absolute ruthless world champion.

And those of us who haven't been world champions,

you know, can't criticize that sort of behavior.

That's what it takes for a kid who didn't come from money,

from a kid who didn't come from privilege, from a kid who had to win

every step of the way, one, one loss.

And he wasn't going to be world champion.

He had to win, win, win, win, win.

You just can't imagine what that takes.

And what that takes is, I guess, is a single-mindedness.

So I've always loved them.

I've always absolutely loved them.

And one of the stories that I tell them,

it's like I don't have to defend them and I don't defend them,

you know, because, you know, he doesn't lead the family.

You know, his record kind of speaks for itself.

But we were in Mexico.

So the winner of Rally Mexico gets a pair of cowboy boots,

supposedly hand-made, supposedly hand-made cowboy boots.

And it was the Sunday of Rally Mexico.

And unusually, it started at the Super Specials,

it was just outside Leon.

And there was no one there.

There was absolutely no one there.

And the drivers turned up early, and I was doing radio.

And I was chatting away to him, and there was Chris Meek,

there was one or two others.

And Oje was there and was chatting.

And he was leading by about two minutes.

And I said, this will be your fifth pair of cowboy boots.

And he went, oh, I should.

He said, my wife won't let me bring them home.

Because they smell.

He said, I've got these four pairs that I've never worn,

sitting in the cupboard at home,

and the smell of this new leather is doing her head in.

You'll be absolutely smelly.

I said, well, I'll tell you what's up.

I said, I've got a pair of, I've got a pair.

I bought the year before for about 30 bucks.

I bought a pair of pink, patent leather cowboy boots in Leon,

which I wore twice because you can't wear them

and wear I live in the middle of England.

I wore them twice, I love them,

and I own them for a couple of occasions.

I said, Sam, I've got this pair of pink cowboy boots.

I tell you what, they don't smell.

If you win today, I'll swap them with you.

Forgot all about it.

Two rallies later, we're in Sardinia,

and I'd gone into the Volkswagen hospitality area for dinner.

And, you know, the drivers are there

and the team are there and you leave the drivers alone in the evening.

You tend not to go near them, you just leave them on.

And he's beckoning me across and I'm going, oh, what have I said?

What have I done today?

What have I said?

And I'm wracking my brain because I'm doing radio at the time thinking,

have I been critical?

Have I said something controversial?

I'm thinking, oh, God, so over I went to his table

and he gets his bag man and says,

go and get that bag that I brought in earlier on.

And he comes up with this carrier bag

and it's got the winner's cowboy boots in it.

And he goes, they are called, I promised you these.

You can have them.

And I mean, I haven't got the pink ones for you.

He said, he went,

I don't want the pink one, you give those.

But he asked the guy, yes, he remembered that conversation.

So I own a pair of winners cowboy boots from Raleigh, Mexico.

He had no need whatsoever to do that.

But the sort of guy is he remembered.

He brought them with him to a rally, two rallies later, and I love him.

I absolutely love him and love him.

He's a special champion.

That's cool. That's cool. That's cool.

I did want to just touch on something you said around, you know,

then these drivers being misunderstood and being very focused.

But you're in your day job, you know,

you have got to get the best story out of that driver.

And they may not want to talk to you.

Now, obviously, over time, you build up relationships,

you know who they are, they know who you are.

But how do you do that when they are probably so focused

on whatever the next stage is ahead?

But you have to get that story.

Yeah, you know, when I say that some of them are focused,

that happens very rarely, even though Seb was ultra focused.

Unless you asked him something silly, he would always give you an answer.

He was very polite, he was very 30 years.

You had to be really, you had to be winding him up

from to be a bit difficult with you.

But you know, there's one driver,

a guy called Loic Tanak, who was a world champion in 2019,

2019, Estonian, again, the most focused and driven man.

But also sometimes quite unpleasant, quite unpleasant to talk to.

And you just have to persevere, Dan, you just have to persevere.

And you have to you have to understand when.

You know, there might be an occasion where you just got to let them be.

You know, you just got to let them be.

It is quite a small community, the rallying community.

And you know, more than anything, the drivers have to trust you.

If you lose the trust of the drivers, they just won't speak to you.

They just won't speak to you.

If you try and stitch them up, you'll only do it once

and you'll never talk to them again.

So, you know, it is about you.

It is just about, you know, I'm reasonably.

Not flipping isn't the word, but you know, I like to have a bit of a laugh.

I like to have a bit of a joke.

I like to talk about things that other interviewers don't talk about, you know.

And I think the majority of drivers appreciate that and they enjoy it, you know.

Most of these kids these days that are coming through are very savvy.

They're very social media savvy.

They're very image savvy and they understand the value of communicating

with people like me and having a bit of a laugh and showing the sport

for what it is, which is real, it's fun.

Yes, it's the most challenging, the most difficult, the most

one of the most dangerous forms of motorsport.

But these are real kids.

These are real men and women who are taking part.

And, you know, they want to be seen that way.

So they do appreciate it when you can be a little irreverent with them at times.

Sure.

Well, you know, and, you know, and I like that.

I like, you know, I know how to ask the right questions at the right time.

I know how to be hard.

I know how to pick up on someone who is bullshitting, you know, if you like.

And there are times where you know they're not telling the truth,

but you let it go, you let it go.

And there are times when they're not and it's your job, it is your duty

to actually find out what's going on behind the top line answer that they're giving you.

If you just accept the top line answer all the time,

then you have no integrity as a pun that you have no integrity as an interviewer.

And I think picking that time, picking those moments

to be asking the hard questions, I think the drivers appreciate that.

I really do. I really do.

I think they know that they're not always going to get it from me,

but they know if they want to try and pull the wool over my eyes,

I'm going to ask questions. I'm going to ask hard questions.

And it takes a bit to build that rapport to that situation

where you can ask those questions and still have a chat and a laugh for them the next morning.

Yeah, Ryan, I don't know about you,

but this sounds like a set of skills that a journalist would have.

Well, that's exactly what I was going to say.

And it's something we see less and less of right in the automotive journalism world,

whether you're writing about, you know, whether you're writing car reviews

or you're covering races or whatever.

It's just there's there's so few folks that are critical anymore.

Right. I think you've got to be critical

and you've got to be a little bit skeptical.

You know, if you take everything at face value, then what's the point?

What's the point? You know, you have to be a skeptical.

You have to ask questions and, you know, people are doing things for the right reasons.

They won't mind that. They won't mind you asking questions.

They won't mind you.

You know, you've got to be able to justify what you're saying, what you're doing.

More more team bosses than team drivers, you know, in that regard.

But if if they're if they're not doing anything naughty, if they're not doing anything bad,

they ain't going to mind you asking questions, you know, but I guess that's too many don't.

It's too many don't.

I'm agreeing with what you said earlier.

Too many just don't these days to sanitize.

Right. And that's and that's it.

And I'm sure that's a skill that you've honed over the 25 years, right?

I'm sure that first time you went out there with that equipment, you were going to use later, right?

I mean, I was probably didn't come quite as easily.

Well, there's a bit of in the family.

My poor old granddad never lived to see me doing my current job.

My dad did thank goodness for that.

He used to love coming on events.

But my granddad was a journalist.

He was he was a headmaster in later years, but he started off his career as a journalist.

So I'm a dad.

My dad did a bit of soccer commentary and soccer writing back in the day.

And I'm really sorry, Dan, I'm saying soccer just because you talked

about some strange sport called football where they never use their feet.

I don't get that.

No, there's a couple of things since living over here.

Firstly, no one calls it football over here.

And and that is just highly frustrating.

People don't know the plural of Lego over here.

So the plural of Lego is Lego, not Legos.

And finally, it's pronounced Jaguar, not Jaguar.

Sorry, I'll get off my high horse at this point.

You know what, Dan, you're choosing to live here, so you might have to adapt, mate.

I think you might.

Tell us about soccer commentary and journalism.

No, it's there in the family a little bit.

So, so there's, you know, there was maybe some sort of DNA in me somewhere that

maybe I'm just just just a yeah, maybe I'm just a bit of a bit of a nosy bugger at times.

I think that's probably more likely what it is.

I think it's one of the most what you do has got to be one of the most difficult professions.

You know, Dan knows this, but I had an opportunity to commentate a race

at Laguna Seca a couple of years ago.

One of the historic races should be easy, right?

Well, I get up there and it's the, what was it?

The Andretti era.

F1 cars, which I know nothing about, right?

And it was the most tense and sort of stressful, you know, 20 minutes of my life,

but I'm so glad I did it.

I'm so glad it, but I don't know how someone does that, you know, for 20, you know, races

or does a day in and day out because you're walking such a fine line.

You have to be honest.

You have to be critical.

You don't want to piss anyone off, right?

You don't want to make a mistake because your credibility is out the window.

You know, it is such a fine, fine line.

Yeah.

How do you, how do you get up and do that, you know, every day?

Yeah, back in the day.

So when I started up until about eight years ago, it was radio, radio is what I did.

And radio with rallying was a very particular skill.

You know, I would stand at the stage ends and interview the drivers

and we would tell the story of the evolving event with myself at the stage end

and my co-host in the studio.

She had all the times, she had all the information,

but I had all of these incredible vistas, I had all of the drama, the views and, you know,

and a lot of that was about just conveying to people back home the atmosphere

and again, not forgetting how lucky we were to be there.

But I was quite good at being able to create an atmosphere,

not that you had to create it as such,

but if you like being able to convey that atmosphere at stage ends, which is very, very special.

You know, if you could get, so the MD 500, if you could get a reporter quite literally

jumping on the side of that winning card as it crossed the line, as it crossed the line,

as it's just beginning to slow down and sticking a microphone under the winning driver's nose

and asking him questions, that was what it was like at stage ends with every driver.

You know, they'd literally, 10 seconds before, they'd come round the corner

at 120 mile an hour, putting their life on the line.

They'd break, they'd come to a stop and I'm there waiting to interview them.

Oh my God, how special is that?

Yeah, incredible.

But it wasn't difficult to tell stories, it wasn't difficult to build up.

What was difficult was trying to remember all the facts

and you know, in the days of, you know, everything is in my head

and you've got people saying, oh, you got that wrong,

but that's nice and easy when you can sit in front of your computer

and go and research, you know, X, Y and Z.

But I'm having to tell the story.

I'm having to, you know, and it was about telling stories.

It was about building a storytelling environment and keeping people excited.

Number one, taking them to where I was, you know,

and that could be the side of a mountain in Greece overlooking a 4,000 year old ruin.

It might be on top of the stage end in Argentina overlooking the Andes.

Just some of the most incredible locations.

So it was about painting pictures, telling stories, creating drama,

building drama into what's going on with limited information.

And then getting the best out of the drivers at the stage ends.

I absolutely loved that and it was a great training ground for me

in my efforts to be accepted as a journalist.

Not that I want to be, but it was a great training ground and it was one of those things.

To me, it came really easily.

It came really, really easily.

But, you know, we were doing the British Rally Championship.

We were making a TV program for Channel 4 in the UK

and I was doing the presenting and I was doing all the interviewing

at the stage ends and all the rest.

And I got food poisoning one night.

We were on the Isle of Man.

And they had stages on the Isle of Man that finished after midnight

and I said to our producer, and he was like, we like it.

He's now really high up in Formula One, one of the most talented,

really one of the most talented kids I'd ever met.

He was 21 years old at the time, most talented kid.

I said to him, I said, I can't come out tonight.

I honestly don't trust myself walking out the front door.

It was that bad and that was the one and only time that I've ever missed it.

And he went, oh, don't worry, Cole, full of confidence in you.

I'll go and do the interviews. I'll go and speak to the drivers.

So I made it down to breakfast the next morning

and I was with the cameraman and the cameraman went, he said,

Colin, don't you ever, ever be ill again.

He said he absolutely wrapped himself and he just couldn't do it.

This was the most, the most talented kid I've ever met.

But when it came to, and it's a sport that he was immersed in,

when it came to asking questions, he just couldn't do it.

He just couldn't do it.

So some of us have the ability to put people at ease,

ask the right question at the right time.

One of the things I never, ever, ever did at a stop line

and you might be interviewing, you know, I don't know, same drivers,

but you might be doing 120, 150 interviews a day

as in your stop line interviews.

They're only one minute each.

For me, if I was asking how was it, how was the stage then?

You know, any monkey can ask that, any monkey, any recording.

But, you know, he couldn't get beyond that.

He couldn't get beyond that, this poor lad.

And a lot of people, a lot of people who look at what we do

at Stage Ns, what we do around rallies think, oh, that must be easy.

It's not so easy. I think it's easy.

I honestly think it's easy, but I know when other people have tried

that, you know, to really just encapsulate the locations,

the atmosphere, the adrenaline, the jeopardy, all of those things

and to convey that in a way that people will sit back home

and listen on a radio, for example.

Yeah, it takes, I guess, a little bit of skill.

That's a great answer, you know.

And it's something I think about, you know, in print or web journalism

or whatever you want to call it, you know, kind of the death of long form

writing, because that storytelling is harder and harder to do, right?

And you know what Ryan, it's all about storytelling.

And this is where we're missing out on rallying just now.

Rallying gives more stories than just about any other form of motorsport.

And we have stories all around rallying, the characters, locations,

the drama, the cars.

We have stories every turn.

You know, it's a Jack and Ores, a chronic copy of Jack and Ores.

And we're failing to tell the stories.

And it's criminal.

It's criminal that we're failing to do it in rallying.

But storytelling is everywhere.

And you're right, the art of storytelling.

You know, it's a dying art.

What a shame. What a real shame.

Well, and to be able to do it on the fly like you can,

I mean, that's a gift, right?

I think that's just something you may be born with, right?

That gift.

Well, maybe.

But I never... You know, that first one I told you about,

that first event I went to.

Yeah, yeah, there you go.

Strangely, strangely, I...

I lacked confidence speaking,

even though I'd been working a reasonably high-profile job

and marked it high-profile.

Not high-profile, but a good job at marketing.

I actually took my little brother along to that event.

Well, he was there. He was there with me when we were getting the recordings.

But he'd done a whole lot of...

My little brother's a natural performer.

He works in the Alps, and he'd done karaoke and all sorts of stuff.

He had no problems talking to people and talking to crowds.

And I said to him before the first part came in,

the first part was Toshihara, a Japanese driver.

And literally, you know, Toshihara was two minutes away,

and I said, Simon, if I can't do this,

I am going to hand you this microphone, and you will do it.

And that's how uncertain that was of whether I could do it.

I actually had him prepared, and he was like,

oh, yeah, I can do it, no problems.

And he stood there with a face like thunder, you know,

as I got more and more into it with his first stage.

But yeah, you know, I was very uncertain

about whether it was something I could do.

And I was just...

I was lucky, Ryan. It is luck.

People say, how did you get there?

Luck. Absolute luck.

Right place, right time.

And then there was a bit of talent there

that allowed me to develop what I do.

So, yeah, yeah.

Don't dismiss that part of it.

Yeah, I can't tell my son who wants to do that.

I can't tell him how to do it.

You know, there's no sure way of doing it.

Yeah, well, in your busy schedule,

you still enjoy getting out for a drive?

Yeah, look, I love driving,

but I'm not a Dan Pilling when it comes to driving.

I don't have that sort of skill and talent and commitment.

I've seen some of Dan's driving. He's a good driver.

I love driving. I do love a road trip.

But I'm... So, you know, when I ski,

which I do rarely,

I went skiing for the first time in a long, long time,

again with my little brother, lives in the mountains.

Great skier, fabulous skier,

and absolutely no fear whatsoever.

Chucked himself off of mountains.

And he said that as I went down, he said,

tell you've not skied for a long time

because you look like Lady Di when you're skiing down there.

And that's what I like.

I like that nice, nice kind of rolled legs together.

I know the picture. That's the funny part.

Yeah, so it was that real control.

And that's exactly the same when I drive.

I just like, you know, I like taking lines.

I like, you know, the occasional little squirt of power,

but I like to be in control and to be neat and to be tidy.

It scares the crap out of me when I start driving fast.

I scare myself. I scare myself.

I once had a 9-6-4-9-11,

which I bought when I retired from the tobacco company

with the massive payment that they gave me.

I wanted to buy, I tell you what I wanted to buy.

I wanted to buy an Alfa Romeo GTV Cup car.

There were only 500 of them made.

A beautiful thing, 3.2 litre, a beautiful thing.

And we went to look at one and Dad said to me,

he said, go, he said, yes, it's a great car.

You'll have a lot of fun if it's on the road.

A lot of time will be in the garage being fixed.

He said, you know, in a year or two,

his time will be worth half of what you pay for it.

And he said, go and get a Porsche.

And it was one of the best bits of advice he ever gave to me.

So I thought, yeah, never thought about a Porsche.

9-6-4-9-11.

And it was the best thing I have ever owned.

I could drive it to the shops.

I could drive it around town.

If it was a straight line, it went like a rocket ship.

I'm told it handled quite well,

but I was never brave enough to throw it into corners.

But I loved it.

I loved the fact that it was powerful,

but it was poised.

And it was a beautiful car to drive.

But I'm not one that gets my kicks from tire squealing

and the back end stepping out.

Scares me.

We've done one hour and 10 minutes

without saying the P-word.

We were doing so well.

So a regular theme on this show

is that we're always talking about Porsches.

So we had done so well up until this point.

A long time ago, Dan,

and when my kids are finished at school,

maybe I'll treat myself to another one at some point.

Yeah, yeah.

It's just so good, you know?

What can you say?

Look, the thing is right.

Again, one of those people, over the years,

cars have cost me a lot of money.

I spent a lot of money on them.

Sure.

And then sell them for a lot less,

or give them away.

One of only two cars that I've ever owned

that I've sold for more than I bought it from.

Really?

So I paid £21,000 for that car,

and sold it 18 months later for £22,000 to £23,000.

I think if I still owned it,

it would be about £70,000 or £80,000.

That's the truth.

Thank you, singer.

Yeah, it's...

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, but yeah, the other one.

The other one, interestingly,

was my second favourite brand, Saab.

Saab 95 convertible.

Paid £800 for it, sold it for £850.

Awesome.

Oh, I miss Saab.

I miss those interesting cars, you know?

I love it.

It had a button, it had a night mode button on it.

That's right.

Where you press the button,

and everything went dark apart from the speedo.

That's right.

The speedo and the...

Born of jets, right?

From the jets, exactly that.

It's great.

But I never treated the night mode,

as it should be treated.

That's pretty nice of Saab, for sure.

Yeah.

What's next for you, Carl?

What are you up to next?

Off to Kenya.

Off to Kenya in a few weeks.

And then it gets busy.

We go down to Otago in New Zealand,

and the Heartland Rally in South Australia.

Yeah, it just gets busy.

It gets busy.

I'd like to slow down a wee bit,

but it's, you know...

I mean, it's not like I'm going in

to do a proper job every day, but...

Yeah, it's a busy old time this time of year.

Yeah.

But Kenya, I love.

You know, we go and we rally amongst the giraffes

and the baboons and the lions and the tigers.

Or is it lions or tigers?

We don't do lions and tigers.

Someone like Dan will know.

What is it?

What is it we have in Africa?

Dan, is it lions?

I think it's lions, yeah.

I think tigers are other places,

like India and stuff, aren't they?

That's it.

Yeah, and it's the most remarkable thing.

I absolutely love going to Kenya.

So that's next on the agenda.

Fun.

Sounds fun.

Yeah, it is.

Always.

Cool.

If people want to follow your adventures,

what is the best way to do so?

Well, Dirtfish.

Dirtfish is a US company I work for.

We're probably the world's number one rallying media.

We're there on Instagram, on YouTube,

TikTok even.

I don't really know what TikTok is.

Kids do.

Apparently we've got a million followers on TikTok,

which you believe.

Yeah, apparently.

I don't get involved much in that,

but we're there.

We're on Facebook.

TikTok.

Is it what?

It's for the kids.

Absolutely, absolutely for the kids.

But yeah, they can follow that,

or just look me up,

call in Clark Rally,

and you'll find me on all of those platforms as well.

But yeah, just look up rallying,

and if rallying is something that's new to you,

and you're just discovering it with this talk then,

goodness me, you've got a wonderful voyage of discovery

in front of you,

because there's so much,

so much out there to enjoy with rallying.

Yeah, now if you go to YouTube,

for example,

in search for dirtfish,

you'll see multiple,

multiple videos with Colin sharing,

interviews with drivers,

sharing some of the highlights

from basically the different events.

So definitely do that.

Check Colin's personal Instagram account out,

because that's where he's got a lot of the car stuff,

and a lot of the photography that he does.

Yeah, I love taking pictures.

Any closing thoughts from you?

Yeah, just that our buddy John Deiste

at Porsche Colorado Springs recently,

well, I guess it was probably six months ago now,

was at dirtfish,

and he said that was the best time

he had ever had behind the wheel of a car,

and that says a lot,

because he's driven a lot of cool cars,

so shout out to dirtfish.

No, that's very kind of him,

and do you know what's great about dirtfish,

is that we have some really good cars,

but more than that,

we've got some top quality instructors.

They are the very, very best,

and they'll, we've got,

how many kilometers down you'll know,

we've got many, many kilometers.

300 acres of dirt, and woodland,

and the guys are actually in,

I think they're Northern Michigan right now,

teach people to do it on the ice as well,

so check out dirtfish.com for all the details.

Yeah, absolutely.

No, it's a great place to go to learn to,

you know what, even for folk who don't necessarily

want to become rally drivers,

if you just want to understand

how to drive your road car better,

you know, it's fantastically useful

to have a day or two skidding around

and learning about weight transfer,

about braking, about apexes and cornering,

it teaches you so much,

even for someone like me,

it taught me a huge amount about

how to get the best out of my car.

Yeah, no, I agree.

Well, Cole, thank you so much.

We really loved catching up with you.

Oh, this is great.

It's always entertaining,

it's always informational,

and, you know, those are certainly signs

of a true great journalist,

so I'm going to officially say

that you are a journalist.

And for those listening,

especially my friends in Peru,

thank you for listening.

Until next week,

this has been That Car Show,

and Ryan, take us out.

Until then, always be driving.

Thanks so much, Colin.

Thanks, guys, for having me.

Thank you.

Colin Clark. The Voice of Rally.

About this episode

rally

DirtFish

motorsport

road racing

WRC

FIA

Ayrton Senna

Michael Schumacher

Formula One

NASCAR

Pike's Peak International Hill Climb

EV

horsepower

Nissan 240SX

Chevrolet Monte Carlo

Mark II Escort

Volkswagen Polos

Ford Fiestas

Citroen Ds3S

hybrid

electric vehicle

Subaru WRX

candidate event

Jaguar

Laguna Seca

F1 cars

Alfa Romeo Gtv

Saab 95

Porsche

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