Driven Radio Show #323: John Saccameno and Luke Chennell

Welcome to Driven Radio Show, your home for Car Talk covering the latest news to the greatest views on the biggest names in performance, sports, and just playing cool driving machines. Let's rev up the conversation. Time for Driven Radio Show.

I'm coming to you from Driven Radio Studios, where we took a knee-last week, because I was a little bit buried. It was a busy week, and I was just getting back from a company getaway, though. I came back a train wreck, so. I hate you people. God, I was so tired. The people are great. I'm just old. I get that. I've been feeling that 20 years ago, 15 years ago. I used to build houses.

We'd have 10 or 12 houses going into time. We were finishing more than 100 houses a year, and I got used to just having tools in the back of my truck and always being busy, and I had a laptop in the truck, too, so I could keep track of all the subs and where everything was going. I was pretty good at it. All it's taken to kick my ass the past few months is one little tiny villa, and it isn't a new construction. It's just a remodel.

It ain't much of one. Terra up the floors, move some doors around. I had just had the crap kicked out of me the last few weeks, and last week was part of it. I'll tell you what, if there's one job I hate doing in the house, it's jacking with insulation.

I got to do some of that coming up before we really hit winter strong downstairs around the mother-in-law suite. Let me know if you need help. I'm getting good at it, so that you can tell me hell no, and feel good about it. I got a couple of brand new hell handheld little staple guns. I know how to use them.

And you'll let me borrow them. Did you not see them sitting on the top of the stairs when you came in? Very nice. I can feel the hate.

It's just radiate and all of the other thing that I had forgotten about being a builder is three t-shirt days.

You know, in the summertime, we're leading into fall, but it's still 90 here. Just having extra t-shirts in your truck, you shake all the crap off of you. Change to the next t-shirt, you suck that sucker.

Yep, man. I always enjoyed building houses, but I've forgotten some of the ins and outs. And as it happens in a minute, we're going to talk about ins and outs in the restoration world.

Hey, how goes the car search? Well, I've made two phone calls, and one you're going to laugh at me about, because I did call the guy about the 1960 tee bird that looked really good.

The one with the craggers already on at the bridge. And it turns out, you know, that was kind of a small description. And it's that was the nephew.

So I talked to the guy who has the car, whose brother died, and it was part of an estate that he's just getting rid of stuff.

Which, I'll buy it. You know, they, they seem pretty, they seem pretty straight up on the phone. Okay.

However, it would have to be trailered. It's going to need a car built. It might, it needs breaks checked and this and that.

And it, it can run, but it will, it'll die on acceleration sometimes and die when you start it and then you put it into gear.

And I'm like, you know what? It's really pretty, but not for that kind of money.

Yep. And it's not a bad price compared to all the other 1960s that I've been looking at and comparing it to.

But for one that's not running, got to be trailered and has kind of a suspicious pedigree.

See, and here's the list.

Less is hard. Super nice guy. But the, and the other thing is you're in a position now because of, you know, the house sale and selling another car.

You got a little bit more latitude and the car should looking at this time.

Don't buy another, buy something done.

Which leads me into the second car.

Okay.

You know, I was, it was funny when I bought civil when I bought that 1964 Dodge custom 880.

I liked it.

Mm hmm.

I wouldn't really in love with it, but I was like, this hits my price range. It's my price points.

It's running that I got at home and it barely ran trying to get it off the damn trailer.

And then there was a whole bunch of other stuff that had to be done with it.

So it was an experience of a couple of years.

But over the year and change that I owned it, I really started to really like that car.

Yeah.

I liked how it looked.

And, you know, I make jokes about craggers and I make my little redneck jokes about myself.

But I really liked how they looked on it.

And even without the raised white, white walls, it just when you shine it up and you put a little spit and sweat on it.

Yeah.

It wasn't a bad looking car and it was, it had a highly original interior and it was in good shape.

And when it ran decently, it really ran decently.

And it was just, you know, the car was the issue on it and I was just too lazy and didn't get it wrong.

And it had a kind of an oddball engine, a 361.

Yeah.

I'd never even heard of those.

Not neither did I.

So.

So all that going on, I kind of fell in love with the car.

So what, lo and behold, as I was selling it, you know, I did some price checking and you couldn't find any of them.

Until, until not long before I sold it.

And there's a 1964 Dodge custom 880 out there.

This one has a 3D3.

I talked to the guy who owns it today.

It's way down there in price.

But he got it from a collector.

Who owned it for about 15, 20 years and then he's had it for about 10.

And it's always been covered, et cetera, but it hasn't been driven much.

So it's sad for a long time.

He's got it.

You can run it off of fuel down the car.

But and he has that brand new trunk or brand new guest tank in the trunk, which I immediately asked him.

I asked him, okay, that brand new thing.

Have you tried the fuel nozzle down into it to see if it's too small?

It was mine.

I had to have a cut out from the original tank of blah, blah, blah.

I haven't tried that.

I'm like, oh, shit.

So it's got that.

And then I thought of one of our guests because I looked at it.

It's got, you know, that that you can care about.

You can say his brain system.

He is listening.

Okay.

Luke was kind enough to figure out my brakes.

And this has that same Bendix brake system.

Yeah.

Now he knows how it works.

And I asked the guy, you know, did the brakes work?

He's like, wow, don't really know all Jesus.

And guess where he is?

He's down in Arkansas right around where the preacher was at.

So I'm never getting over the fact that a preacher lied to you.

Never going to get over that one.

That just goes to show you that the suckers reborn every minute.

Yeah.

I'd like to see which church he is running.

It was somewhere down in Texas and I'm sure the cooling is so cold.

But be that as it may.

This one has a 383 on it, the outside of the body course pictures lie.

But it looks really good.

He said there's no rust on it, which the other guy said it from the one I bought.

And he was pretty accurate overall.

Okay.

So I'm putting it in my back pocket because he also told me going to Arkansas.

Well, he's already lowered the price a little.

And when I was talking about the phone, he's like, tell you what?

You know, down in Arkansas, I'm going to tell you what?

Tell you what, you know, I got some bills coming up.

So once you just come on down, bring some cash in your pocket, make me an offer and take it.

Yeah.

And I'm like, I think my life would just choke me to death.

He's dangling that awful heart.

And can we please review?

You've said it so many damn times now.

I have it memorized.

205 inches by God.

It would be a daily.

It would be a daily driver.

Oh, my God.

You daily this hell.

Yeah.

Why would you get rid of the extra?

Because this car is much cooler.

And all it be all.

Okay.

So that's where I'm at right now.

I can't really knock you for that.

It's unlikely.

It's very unlikely.

But I'm keeping it in my back pocket because I am keeping my eye.

There's a several other cars.

I have kind of gotten my focus because at one time a long time ago, I was looking at so many different cars.

You're like, Jesus, Mark.

It's cool that you're looking for cars finally to get one.

Well, can we find you a 73 charger or something?

But what you told me was you need to kind of narrow it down.

Pick one.

Yeah.

Go looking for that.

So the Thunderbirds 58 to 6, roughly 66.

I'm really kind of getting getting a real.

I was going to see something rude.

I am rather excited about that.

Yes, I know what you're going to say.

So dirty, dirty.

So we'll see where it goes with that.

Well, and that's where I'm at.

With Likes car search this week.

Yeah.

In a minute, you're going to show me that when we're done with the show, you're going to show me that car.

Oh, hell yeah.

And then I'm probably going to encourage you to do something stupid.

Yeah.

I want you smack in your forehead going on.

Oh, my God.

No, no.

No.

You've seen me do stupid with zeros on the end.

So I can't really knock you there.

Yeah.

But at least yours, you could drive across the country.

I couldn't even drive mine off the GD trailer.

When I got that Corvette home and it flattened on a cam tap.

Yeah.

It was a boo-boo.

Yeah.

There was some issues.

Yeah.

Okay.

My end of the car rule this week.

And we were talking to our guests just a little bit before we started the show.

Apparently in the ongoing saga of the drum brakes.

On the 60 Corvette, we've come to the.

We've come to the idea that one half or that the driver's side axle is bent.

It's bent.

And here's the first thing.

I can't even begin to figure out how that happened because I don't drive that car hard.

Yeah.

I don't take it out and run the hell out of it.

I drive it very infrequently period.

And usually it's like to go get ice cream or something like that.

So not real sure how it happened, but that's in material.

I need an axle, you know, the driver's side half of the axle and half an axle.

Well, the axle for the left side.

And I just, I'm kind of at a loss.

We're to start looking because none of the catalogs are going to have anything like that.

Maybe one of our guests knows.

So let's jump into that.

Our special guest this week, repeat offenders.

John Sakimino of Sport and Specialty and Luke Channel of McPherson College Auto Restoration Program.

Gentlemen, welcome back to Driven Radio.

Hey, Brad.

How are you?

No, I've missed you so.

Two whole weeks.

I don't know.

Come on back.

Wait a minute.

I'm not ready yet.

I didn't want to leave you hanging.

I know you had a awesome time.

Well, also at the end of the show when we had you on a couple of weeks ago,

we started talking about what we're going to discuss tonight.

And I'd been talking to Luke about something similar at the same time.

Luke, how you doing?

I'm good.

I'm glad to be here.

And I just have some new friends for you to introduce you to.

Okay.

You can con gear an axle and then make your shaft.

They do.

So.

They do.

So I don't know what you want to do with your shaft when you purchase it.

That's where you're going to get.

It's only half a shaft.

I mean, could I go brag?

Well, first I want to make sure that you con guys are from here and not some part of Asia.

Guys, to speed things along real quick, can you give us a thumbnail of your qualifications

and current occupations?

John, I'll let you go first.

Okay.

I own a restoration business, automotive restoration business in Northern Illinois by 90 miles north west of Chicago.

Go ahead and plug it.

What's that?

Go ahead and plug it.

I listen.

I have no pride.

That's why I'm here.

Otherwise, we just talk on the phone.

You heard the show.

Anyway, no, we do 50s, 60s and basically 50s, 60s, 70s, European sports cars.

Okay.

Alpha Romeo, Jaguars, Austin Healy, Porsches, we're pretty broad in our scope.

And again, as we said last time, we talked.

There's certain models we tend to stick to and the normal and the plug right now.

But nobody can see this except you guys.

So you have to go.

Oh, and I'm shit.

But you know, here.

Here's the.

Ooh.

Ah.

Here.

Okay.

Just took goal at the Alpha Romeo owners club meeting the National Convention in.

In Chicago two weeks or no, last week.

It was pretty cool.

Oh, cool.

This is mine and we did it at the shop.

So it's.

It's a beauty.

Okay.

Tell us what it is and what size engine and what do you've done to it?

It is a bone stack car.

It is truly a.

A.

It's like 958 points.

Mostly the points I didn't get were because I put leather in instead of vinyl.

I did so.

I did a few things that.

You know, the purist didn't like.

Was it a Johnson B210 or what?

No, it's a.

It's.

I think that's an alpha.

Oh, it's a male.

It's a 19.

It's just spider, isn't it?

Julia G.

I.

U.

L.

I.

A.

Velocie.

And then I was one of 1100.

They only made like a thousand eighty three.

I think that year.

So it's a pretty rare.

It was worth putting some money into.

But yeah, we'd I put it out and said here judge it.

And it came back gold.

So that was.

It was.

That's terrific.

I'm for the day thought.

But, you know, that's the kind of stuff we do.

So I.

I think I posted in social media this week.

We hit a hat trick.

We've done a gold.

Healy.

100 am.

Healy, which is a limited production car 640 units.

We did a gold.

Jaguar series one that was the best in the country in 2019.

And now we've got a gold Alfaro male Julia.

Velocie.

So.

I'm like, OK.

And when people say, Hey.

Do you know how to work on these?

I can say, I think we do.

No?

Yeah.

I'm pretty happy with that and we were we've got a 356.

A 52.

356 be super 90.

I'm working on trying to get judged yet this year and see if I don't know if they have gold or whatever, you know, super high standard they have.

So I can go to have Patrick plus one with most of the major marks of that era.

Very cool.

Thanks.

Luke, give us a rundown of qualifications, current occupation.

Great question.

I'm an associate professor at Macerson College teaching the automotive restoration department.

And I teach primarily drive train chassis restoration.

So I do transmissions axles, steering suspension brakes.

Basically, if it's on the underside of a car and it's oily or greasy, I'm into that.

I'm currently in my 19th year here at the college.

I started teaching directly after I was a student in 2003 and basically I've never left.

I've never had in my life a non automotive job.

I've worked in basically every part from down in the pit at a quick loop to hear at the top of the college.

I worked in art stores and shops and ran my own mobile service business for a while.

I worked on modern cars, vintage cars, really vintage cars.

And then cars that basically don't even classify as vintage they classify as antique.

Well, of antique tractors.

I've engineered on a steamboat.

I ran a steam locomotive for a while.

So I've been in every field of transportation with maybe the exception of aircraft.

And I just love machines, machine parts, fix and things, seeing how they work.

So it's been my life's calling.

And on top of all that courtesy of the rather abrupt departure of our good friend, Professor Yon.

Now you're also teaching some history.

Yeah, so I got my undergraduate degree in not only auto restoration but also in history.

I went on to get a master's degree in local and community history.

And then I like to say I got the better part of my PhD which was all the coursework but no dissertation.

Again, in American history and railroad history.

So I've been teaching history courses.

I've sat in a lot of seminar rooms and argued with a lot of people about history.

I'm pretty good at that.

You don't want to get in an argument with me on the internet because like I win every time.

Keep going.

Oh, I have a fantastic joke about that.

But I can't tell it here because we want to be able to still do the show.

Well, and furthermore, my first in college will disavow my existence.

I never get to see anything about this school.

Again, good or bad?

So Luke, what do you do with your spare time though?

I want an ignition coil rebuilding business called midnight coil repair.

Oh, because that's the only time he has to do it.

Yeah, from 10 to midnight is midnight coil repair.

So you've finished magnetos and buzz coils and all kinds of stuff.

He's also really good at painting shop floors.

I've watched him do that.

That's he's fantastic.

It was going to have a hobby.

Yeah, well Luke's idea was just throw the paint down.

Damn it, I'll get to it.

He did a great job before.

Alrighty, John outside the show we have discussed.

And this is really the thrust of the show tonight.

The difficulties and the challenges of running a quality restoration shop.

And what are, I'm curious, what are the primary concerns in running your shop?

And how do you find skilled employees?

And like we were talking before the show,

you had one skate on you today.

Would you like to jump into that?

I guess I, one of the things that's kind of amazed me when I got into this industry,

if you will, into the hobby that everybody calls it, the hobby.

No, I've started calling it at the community because I think that's all right.

Yeah, well, the community, yeah, it's much of the same thing.

With everybody in the restoration side of the coin,

we all do the same stuff.

But we also all share the same troubles and problems.

Finding help, finding customers, how do you market properly?

How do you get paid?

Is it easy to get paid?

How do you structure your finances?

And the other thing I found it was kind of interesting about it was that

I came at it as Luke said, he's a car guy.

There's a lot of guys in my business who own shops like I do,

who came at it from that side.

That's all they've ever done is worked on cars.

They didn't have the benefit of going to McPherson and rounding out their education.

As they got bigger and bigger and bigger, whatever they were doing at the beginning,

when they were a young pup fixing one car at a time,

and now they've got two employees and they're doing four cars.

A lot of them just kind of, the business end of their business, if you will,

never got very sophisticated.

Every month was always a surprise.

I know that because that's the business I owned or that I bought from my friend Mark,

who basically needs some money, I better do some building.

That's how he did it.

It's a business guy.

At one point, I ran a $75 million operational business.

With operations around the globe.

You can't do that.

You have to know where you are.

My brain doesn't function that way.

One of the things I did was I came up with a financial way to track finances

and what is our cash and what are we doing.

I talked to other people and I actually helped two or three other shop owners

understand that part of the business, how you make money.

Particularly how you make money, but how money is made if you will.

That's a big piece of how I started thinking about this.

There's probably, I don't know, let's call it a dozen.

When I say good shops, when I say good shops, I don't mean that there's a lot of bad shops.

I'm just saying there's a, let's call it the top tier.

The man's restorations and the Levine restorations.

I'm not even throwing myself in that piece.

Some of these restoration shops are just filled with talented people

and talented management and talented owners that I think we would all benefit

from the same ideas across the board.

Again, one of them is hiring people.

What's the best way to hire people?

I've been having an RPM foundation.

It's been a big piece of that for a long time.

I talked to Nick.

Just kind of get my brain around what's going on with that.

There is no ASC industry certification for

there is no ASC industry certification or restoration businesses.

We're competing for those heads that get hired by Ford.

If you stay a year and a half, you can keep your tools.

That's what they do.

That's a big deal.

It's a big deal.

They get signing bonuses out of their technical schools.

I've been dragged into tech force.

It has asked me to come in to a couple of presentations.

I'm giving a presentation of a bunch of young guys

telling how excited the restoration business is.

The Ford guy comes in and goes,

Driven Radio Show #323: John Saccameno and Luke Chennell

About this episode

estate sale

Dodge Custom

361 engine

Dodge Charger

Ford Thunderbirds

Chevrolet Corvette

Jaguar

Alfa Romeo

Austin Healey

Alfa Romeo Giulia

limited production car

Porsche 356

drive train chassis restoration

axles

steering suspension

brakes

transmissions

coil

carburetor

Porsche 911

Morgan

carburetion

ignition

differential

high-performance

Hot Rod Express

Mercury Mountaineer

Nissan Xterra

Toyota A80

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