The hosts dive into Honda's recent cancellation of the ambitious Zero EV project, reflecting on its potential as a radical halo car and what this means for Honda's future direction. They discuss the broader challenges facing automakers today, including market unpredictability, geopolitical tensions, and the struggle between short-term profits and long-term innovation. The conversation also touches on the contrast between Western automakers and China's strategic approach to EV development, highlighting systemic issues in capitalism and industry planning. Personal stories about car maintenance and road hazards add a relatable touch to the deep industry analysis.
While Peter drives south to Sebring, enjoy Rory's read on Honda's decision to walk back their EVs, including the Honda 0. But can any automaker in the U.S., functioning as yet another monad within capitalism, make informed decisions? Or is the whole system... bad?
You can support Alloy with a membership here: https://alloymag.com/sign-up/ and read Rory's piece about the Honda 0 series here: https://alloymag.com/zero-sum/ AND don't forget to send this one to friends who might be interested in what Alloy is up to: https://alloymag.com/heres-what-alloy-is-doing-by-the-way/
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Your producer pal Matty, who writes these, has nothing to plug except this Patreon page you're already on. Support my wonderful co-hosts ty ty ty ˖⁺‧₊˚ ♡ ˚₊‧⁺˖
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Car
Honda Zero
"What's your car car topic Rory report Rory? I wanted to talk about the Honda zero Over has there been developments on the whole we have a zero front"
Honda Zero is a type of electric motorcycle made by Honda. It runs on electricity instead of gas and is designed for city riding.
The Honda Zero refers to Honda's electric motorcycle lineup, known for its innovative electric powertrains and urban mobility focus. Honda is a major Japanese manufacturer known for both motorcycles and cars.
Car
Honda RSX
"But uh, yeah the RSX gone and both
Oh, that's that's even that was just like that was the the SUV that we just talked about like a few weeks ago"
The Honda RSX is a small sporty car made by Honda that many people liked because it was fun to drive and easy to fix. It was made mostly in the early 2000s and is still popular with car fans.
The Honda RSX is a sporty compact car produced by Honda primarily in the early 2000s, known for its performance and tuning potential. It is the successor to the Honda Integra and was popular among enthusiasts for its balance of reliability and driving dynamics.
"SUV and saloon also also dead deal. Oh
RIP man. I I really wanted to fucking see that"
A saloon is a type of car that has separate areas for the engine, people inside, and the trunk. In the US, it's usually called a sedan.
Saloon is a British term for a passenger car with a three-box configuration, typically a sedan with separate compartments for engine, passenger, and cargo. It is a common body style in many markets.
"Well, I mean I have I mean look I've seen a celestic at this point true
Yeah, so I mean not you know
I mean at a race and and then like driving on the street like leaving as it was leaving the race
But but you did see one but I did see one on the road, you know, it was it was in the wild. It wasn't like"
The Honda Celestiq is a fancy and cool-looking car that Honda showed off to show what a future car might look like. It was special because it looked different and was meant to be a luxury electric car.
The Honda Celestiq is a concept or limited production luxury saloon vehicle that was noted for its radical and futuristic design. It represents Honda's attempt to enter the high-end luxury electric vehicle market with a unique and striking model.
"Zero and the the suv makes sense as a halo car to like drive in that direction But it was not not clear to me at any point that honda was driving in that direction aside from that car"
A halo car is a special car that a company makes to show off how good they are. It helps people think better about all their cars.
A halo car is a vehicle produced by a manufacturer to showcase their brand's capabilities and to attract attention, often influencing the perception of their entire lineup. It usually features advanced technology, design, or performance.
"um on ev stuff and they had to have a moonshot to To catch up and they had to like"
An EV is a car that runs on electricity instead of gas. It uses batteries to move instead of an engine that burns fuel.
EV stands for Electric Vehicle, a car powered entirely or primarily by electricity stored in batteries instead of traditional gasoline or diesel engines.
"It's like by the time you make the decision to cancel it It's like the it's a bad decision the better decision would have been to cancel it a year ago."
Sometimes car companies decide not to finish making a new car because it might cost too much or not sell well. This is called canceling the project.
Canceling a car project refers to the decision by a manufacturer to stop development or production of a new vehicle, often due to financial concerns, market conditions, or strategic shifts. This can happen even after significant investment.
"because lamborghini just Just shit canned their forthcoming e.v. That kind of um sport ute kind of like wedgie sport ute kind of thing"
An electric vehicle, or E.V., is a car that runs on electricity instead of gas. It helps reduce pollution and can be charged at home or special stations.
E.V. stands for electric vehicle, a car powered entirely or primarily by electricity instead of traditional internal combustion engines. Electric vehicles produce zero tailpipe emissions and are becoming increasingly popular.
"There's been so much funny back and forth lately with with that kind of stuff because lamborghini just Just shit canned their forthcoming e.v."
Lamborghini is a company that makes very fast and fancy sports cars. They are known for their cool designs and powerful engines.
Lamborghini is an Italian luxury sports car manufacturer known for high-performance supercars and exotic designs. They are part of the Volkswagen Group and are famous for models like the Aventador and Huracán.
"We're subsidizing these things at the point of sale not not a tax credit for rich people. Yep. We are"
A tax credit is money the government gives back to people when they buy certain things, like electric cars, to help make them cheaper.
A tax credit is a government incentive that reduces the amount of tax a buyer owes, often used to encourage purchasing electric vehicles by lowering their effective cost.
"Building infrastructure. We're putting chargers every five miles everywhere in the fucking country This is a 10. This is a 10 year project."
Charging infrastructure means the places where electric cars can plug in to get more power, like gas stations but for electricity.
Charging infrastructure refers to the network of electric vehicle charging stations needed to support widespread EV adoption, including fast chargers placed strategically to enable long-distance travel.
"like they're making a ton of investments and in um self-driving and an e-v and like in a bunch of other stuff batteries and whatever"
Self-driving means a car can drive itself without a person needing to steer or control it, using special computers and cameras to see and move around.
Self-driving refers to vehicles equipped with technology that allows them to operate without human input, using sensors, cameras, and AI to navigate roads safely.
"like they're making a ton of investments and in um self-driving and an e-v and like in a bunch of other stuff batteries and whatever"
Batteries are like big rechargeable power packs that give electric cars the energy they need to drive.
Batteries in automotive context refer to rechargeable energy storage devices that power electric vehicles and hybrid cars, crucial for their operation and range.
"it's been so cold and I just think of just That oil congealing over the winter in the crankcase"
When oil gets really cold, it can get thick and sticky, making it harder for the engine to work smoothly when you start the car.
Oil congealing refers to the thickening or solidifying of engine oil, especially in cold temperatures, which can reduce its effectiveness in lubricating engine parts during startup.
"That oil congealing over the winter in the crankcase"
The crankcase is like a container inside the engine where important parts move around and where the oil sits to keep everything running smoothly.
The crankcase is the part of an engine that houses the crankshaft and associated components, and it holds the engine oil that lubricates these moving parts.
"Although these races having been cancelled, uh, f1 finally"
Formula 1, or F1, is a type of car racing with very fast and special cars that race on circuits around the world.
Formula 1 (F1) is the highest class of international single-seater auto racing sanctioned by the FIA, featuring the fastest and most technologically advanced race cars.
"Much to the uh disappointment of classic f1 heads who love the
Uh the tracks in uh those places"
Classic F1 means the old days of Formula 1 racing when the cars and tracks were different from today. People who like classic F1 enjoy watching and talking about those older races and cars.
Classic F1 refers to the era of Formula 1 racing in the past, often celebrated for its historic cars, legendary drivers, and iconic tracks. Enthusiasts of classic F1 appreciate the sport's heritage and the unique challenges of older circuits.
"Anyway, so so yeah, um
But I'm gonna I'm gonna go go to seabring. So I'm uh excited about that and it's a very long drive"
Sebring is a race track in Florida where people race cars for a long time, like 12 hours. The track is bumpy and tough, so it tests how strong the cars and drivers are.
Sebring International Raceway is a famous racing circuit in Florida known for its rough surface and historic endurance races like the 12 Hours of Sebring. It's a popular track for testing car durability and driver skill.
"my left front Um, uh, Sparco Terra cool Wheels that I got that I got for my winter tires when I got the car"
Sparco Terra wheels are special car wheels made by a company called Sparco. People use them to replace their regular wheels, often to make their car look cooler or handle better, especially in winter.
Sparco Terra wheels are aftermarket alloy wheels made by Sparco, a well-known manufacturer of motorsport and performance parts. These wheels are often chosen for their lightweight design and aesthetic appeal, commonly used for winter tires or performance upgrades.
"I guess it's is it is it cast aluminum? It must be cast aluminum forged forged is better. Is that is that what yeah"
Cast aluminum means the metal is melted and poured into a shape to make parts like wheels. These wheels can be heavier and not as strong as other types.
Cast aluminum refers to aluminum that has been melted and poured into a mold to form a specific shape, such as a wheel. This manufacturing process is generally less expensive but can result in wheels that are heavier and less strong compared to forged aluminum wheels.
"I guess it's is it is it cast aluminum? It must be cast aluminum forged forged is better. Is that is that what yeah"
Forged aluminum means the metal is heated and squeezed really hard to make it stronger and lighter. This makes wheels tougher and better for driving.
Forged aluminum is aluminum that has been heated and compressed under high pressure to form a denser, stronger, and lighter material than cast aluminum. Forged wheels are typically more durable and perform better under stress.
"Yeah, like the fatigue metal fatigue is a huge huge thing, but like wheels themselves like under are under a tremendous amount of strain"
Metal fatigue happens when metal gets tired and weak because it's been bent or stressed many times. Wheels can get cracks or break because of this.
Metal fatigue is the weakening of metal caused by repeated stress and strain over time, which can lead to cracks or failure. This is an important consideration for wheels because they endure constant forces while driving.
"Like like my you know my alignment's got to be fucked um And and like and I'm also kind of like worried that like that like I damp"
Alignment means making sure your car's wheels point the right way so it drives straight and doesn't wear out the tires too fast.
Wheel alignment refers to adjusting the angles of the wheels so that they are set to the car manufacturer's specifications. Proper alignment ensures even tire wear, good handling, and safety.
"And and like and I'm also kind of like worried that like that like I damp You know that like I fucking like damaged the wheel bearing or just or just you know Like like some part of that front suspension I mean it took such a hard hit and so so I've just been like driving around like You know, you know, you know when you get that shit in your head and you're just you're listening for just like the slightest You know anything and it's like. Yeah. Fuck is that is that is that the wheel bearing?"
The wheel bearing is a part that helps your car's wheels spin easily without making noise or getting stuck. If it gets damaged, your car might make weird sounds or not drive smoothly.
A wheel bearing is a crucial part of a car's suspension system that allows the wheels to rotate smoothly with minimal friction. It supports the weight of the vehicle and helps maintain proper wheel alignment.
"Like like some part of that front suspension I mean it took such a hard hit and so so I've just been like driving around like"
The front suspension is the part of your car that helps smooth out bumps in the road and keeps the front wheels steady.
The front suspension is the system of parts at the front of the vehicle that connects the wheels to the chassis, absorbing shocks from the road and providing stability and comfort.
"Peter if my old honda accord could make it down between new jersey and uh south of miami places That shall not be named back and forth a few times. I think you you'll probably you'll be fine"
The Honda Accord is a well-known car that many people use because it is dependable and easy to drive for everyday trips.
The Honda Accord is a popular midsize sedan known for its reliability, fuel efficiency, and comfortable ride. It has been a staple in Honda's lineup for decades and is often praised for its longevity.
"No, we're gonna we're gonna have less torsional stiffness. I know you know like um... Like I really hope that that they um"
Torsional stiffness is how much a car’s body resists twisting when you drive. If it’s stiff, the car feels more solid and handles better. If it’s less stiff, the car might feel a bit loose or wobbly.
Torsional stiffness refers to a vehicle's resistance to twisting forces, which affects handling, structural integrity, and ride quality. Lower torsional stiffness can lead to more body flex, impacting driving dynamics.
""cheap hyper reliable cars that were fuel efficient cheap to run and um... That were like very broadly appealing besides all of that stuff like they were fun to drive""
Fuel efficient means a car doesn't use much gas to go far. This helps save money and is better for the planet.
Fuel efficiency describes how far a car can travel on a given amount of fuel, often measured in miles per gallon (MPG). Cars like the Honda Fit are designed to use less fuel, saving money and reducing environmental impact.
""smart smart packaging and it's like, you know, it's like whatever if if... that is honda's core competency as a car like the fit... Where it's like ingenious packaging""
Smart packaging means designing a car so that even though it's small, it feels roomy inside and can carry a lot of stuff. The Honda Fit does this really well.
Smart packaging in automotive design refers to efficiently using interior space to maximize comfort, cargo capacity, and usability within a small footprint. The Honda Fit is known for this feature, offering versatile seating and storage.
""If there's a question about like whether honda kind of got away from what it's good at or or kind of lost sight of like what its core competency is with these cars like""
Core competency means what a company is really good at. For Honda, it's making certain types of cars that people like and trust.
Core competency refers to a company's main strength or expertise that gives it a competitive advantage in the market. In this context, it means what Honda is best known for or excels at in car manufacturing.
Select text to request an explanation
it was just like it was it was like 20 screen caps of of just like headlines
From from like 20, you know, like like I mean literally dozens of different news sources and outlets about
About this election about the fact that this election was was happening
And the lead in every single one
Was was something to the effect of you know
You know
While Vietnam does, you know, hold elections. They are a one-party system, you know in which the blah blah blah blah blah
and
But but it's like but every single start. I mean it was verbatim. Yeah, yeah, and I mean this
I mean, it's like I mean, they were literally like 40 or 50
Different, you know, where it shows you just like, you know, the headline and then just like the first, you know
Three or four lines of the story and and they're all just verbatim
Identical, you know, and it's not like it's like from the AP or something, you know, it's right
It's like they're all different stories from different news sources with just like the the exact same
It's it is funny. That is how I would describe it. Um, I yeah, I
Free press love it. Gotta love it. Love having a free press. I am I did I did I did have a car topic
to discuss today if
Nah, I don't know
What's up? Why would we do that? What's our show?
Yeah, oh, oh tired
Tired the the car podcast for people to understand the cars are bad with your friends Maddie Rory and me Peter
What's what's your car? What's your car car topic Rory report Rory? I wanted to talk about the
Honda zero
Over has there been developments on the whole we have a zero front
Yeah, Honda canceled all of the
Yeah, they had
What did this happen last week?
Well, I guess I was distracted
I wasn't watching the car news feed as closely as they typically do
And I was like, uh-oh
Wow RIP and I think I did unfortunate timing for Honda. I would submit I
Um, I think I I think we did talk about my prediction for this happening. I I think you may have called this one Rory
Yeah, maybe we can clip that
But uh, yeah the RSX gone and both
Oh, that's that's even that was just like that was the the SUV that we just talked about like a few weeks ago
mm-hmm and the
zero
SUV and saloon also also dead deal. Oh
RIP man. I I really wanted to fucking see that
That zero saloon that thing looked so genuinely fucking radical and cool man, and I was I was excited
I
Guess I guess that's one of those. I guess I mean, it's not surprising because it did seem like
Kind of a bridge too far in terms of just like that would have been a really shocking
Vehicle to actually see on the road. Yeah, they're in and the reality is is you are not gonna be seeing a lot of those
Whoops
Will not be seeing any of them. Yeah, I mean you wouldn't have I think had they built it but
Well, I mean I have I mean look I've seen a celestic at this point true
Yeah, so I mean not you know
I mean at a race and and then like driving on the street like leaving as it was leaving the race
But but you did see one but I did see one on the road, you know, it was it was in the wild. It wasn't like
I'm
Displayer, right exactly. So so I have I have seen that and which
You know
So, yeah, but yeah, yeah, so they announced it last week the auto auto journalists are
Very upset about this
which I don't
understand
Necessarily the rationale for that I guess would be a way to say it. I think they're disappointed. They're disappointed like me
It is disappointing. I but they're mad. I think because they think it's strategically a bad move
Which I would have to very strenuously disagree with
I don't know man. I think I mean for at least for in the case of that that that
the zero
Was so was saloon. Was that the actual name of it? Yeah
in the case of that I
I think that that car was so
I mean, it would have been like microscopic numbers
Um, but it would have served as as just like like a halo car, you know for honda
And I think that would have been that would have been cool and good
um
And it wouldn't have I mean they already fucking spent the money to develop it
So it's like you're not all using much by by by building it. No, there's there's a lot more money left. I mean there's really
Yeah, yeah, there was there was a long way to go. I thought it was pretty close to to
To production. I thought we were supposed to see it later this year. I mean we talked about that too. That was a 2026, you know
I mean, but that's a huge like bringing a car. That was that was on our death pool
I mean that that was on our we that was the thing that the thing that we did was we went through all those cars and we predicted
Um, uh, which ones would would would make it to market. Did we um, I don't remember what the verdict was on that one
We'll have to clip it
The
The thing of it is and I think like that the
I don't know enough about this to do like a proper postmortem like I don't
And I think like a lot of the commentary on this too. It's like this is one of those things
We're as a
Journalist and I need to be very careful the way I say this is um
I've gotten myself trouble for talking about this before but I think like as a journalist unless you are
Up to your fucking neck in investigating this thing, which no automotive journalist is that I'm aware of you don't really have
That much of an idea about what's going on with it. So I think like
There are cases where
In terms of its viability as is in the marketplace or no no just in terms of like what's happening behind the scenes at the car company
Okay, so it's like yeah, we and I think like I had
Is probably as good at access to this as a lot of other people did or or most people
I think like I went to the the executive round tables
I got the behind the scenes tours of the factory like I've met all the people who were working on it got to ask questions like
um
In like I got a sense that there was like a lot of confusion around it and a lot of kind of disagreement
And I also like got a sense that like
That maybe it wouldn't happen
Especially earlier this year when that drive got cancelled for it last minute. Yep, but I think the
The
The halo car thing here is interesting. I think generally like I like a halo car like the idea of a halo car
But it's like to me the the zero saloon
And again, it's like this is a lot of the speculation and a lot of it is like
A lot of the reporting or reaction to this is just speculation too, but it's like um
If you were to say we are taking honda
In a new direction an entirely new direction
That is up market. It's got all these different
Kind of parameters and kind of understanding what the honda brand is then I think like
Zero and the the suv makes sense as a halo car to like drive in that direction
But it was not not clear to me at any point that honda was driving in that direction aside from that car
So it's like the what would be the like in a in a halo situation you would hope that there would be like a follow on
effect
Across the rest of honda that would be that would be kind of signal like some new kind of brand strategy or something or or like
Yeah, and also like from a technological standpoint and from a
From a
From a
Engineering standpoint styling standpoint, whatever it's like some of that would trickle down into the more kind of mainstream
But also like you would be able to go to your
team in japan and in the states and say like
This is where we're headed. This is what I this is representative of our thinking going forward
And it was never clear to me with either of these cards that that was the case. It's like
um
It seemed you know, it's like one kind of theory that I had was like hey look honda felt like they were way behind
Um on ev stuff and they had to have a moonshot
um
to
To catch up and they had to like
They had to kind of engineer their way into a moonshot
Meaning like use their incredibly talented engineers and like to build something that was really like state-of-the-art
um, but I think like it
Like if you're not like I said if that's not what the company is going to be then it doesn't make sense as a halo
It doesn't make sense as an exercise and it's also like especially if you're looking at the market and saying like
There's no way in hell this thing is going to sell like we're not going to get our money back on this and it's like
What do you do?
I mean, it's like with this stuff too. It's like by the time you make the
decision to cancel it
It's like the it's a bad decision the better decision would have been to cancel it a year ago. You know, whatever
Yeah, so it's like
It's like wow. Fuck it just keeps getting worse. Yeah. No, it's yeah. No, it's it's it's just that thing of like
You know at what point do you cut your losses?
I mean, we see, you know, I mean
There's been so much
funny back and forth lately
with with that kind of stuff because lamborghini just
Just shit canned their forthcoming e.v. That kind of
um
sport ute kind of like wedgie sport ute kind of thing
Um
Which which I think is too bad because that that was actually a pretty cool looking vehicle. I thought
But um, but that's not going to happen
um
For months we had been hearing that
the
portion nine
Sorry, portion seven 18 the baxter came in
Replacement which was going to be full e.v. And then, you know, initially like for years, you know was was was e.v.
Evv only we're you know, we swear to god. We're only doing an e.v. Of this, you know
um
And then and then like in the last year it's become, you know, pretty obvious that it's like, oh, no
Well, there's gonna there'll be a there'll be an ice and an e.v. Version
um
And then and then like more recently it's been like, oh, maybe you'll maybe we won't even do an e.v.
Maybe it'll just be like full ice. Um
Um, although recently I feel like I just I mean, I'm I'm I've honestly lost track
Like I feel like I just recently like just like in the last week or a week and a half
Saw something that kind of flip flopped from that even, you know, or it's just like
Now ev is back on, you know, or or um, you know, we're for sure going to have an e.v. Um
It which was like
It was so recent that that it it actually made me wonder if it's a reaction to
the fact that like
To what's going on, you know, with the fucking straight up hormuz and in the fact that like
Everybody in the world is going to be paying fucking 10 or $15 a gallon a year for now
And and all those evs that everybody has been canning for the last year
um
Uh
May have turned out to be um
Pretty viable after all. I don't know. Well, you know, we'll see how it plays out. I mean, it's just like
Yeah, I mean, it's I mean, we've talked forever about about just like
as a man as a manufacturer
And and just given the state of the world and you know, it's like, how do you even try to plan?
If you know product product plan for for an environment, we're just like, um
Just the situation is is so dramatically different from like
Week to week and minute to minute, you know, and it's like and here we have another
You know, like like a year, you know, like a year after
Having this this kind of like tariff shock that just kind of upended the global economy
Um, we're threatened to anyways and where everybody just had to like just be like, okay, fuck it
We're not doing evs anymore. You know
And and now like like, you know, a full calendar year later, you've got like this
cataclysmic global thing unfolding where it's like
Maybe maybe we need to reconsider this
Um
It is it is very funny because like a lot of automakers, you know, either split their political support or we're
personally, you know supportive of
Trump thing on the basis of like always going to get rid of the
uh
regulations or whatever
But for years and years automakers have said we don't really care what the
Exact policies are they do but they would say publicly, right? We don't care what the policies are
We just care if it's stable like we need to be able to plan. It's like like just give us the rule book and we will plan for it
Right, and it's like four decades
Traditionally
That has been the function of
Yeah
But it's like um deep state. Yeah, exactly like, uh, but it's it's very
Um, it's very funny like not funny, but it's like is this what you wanted? You know what I mean?
Like is this is this uh, is this what you had in mind is like
um
And it's um, I don't think it is
Yeah, but it but it's
The whip-sying
Thing is funny, but it's also like
this is
Regardless of like Trump's like appetite for chaos and this stuff the the bigger thing is
um
And you know, I'm very hesitant to give credit to the chinese government for anything, obviously
I mean, they are very very, um, they're bad on human rights. I gotta say. Yeah, they're very oppressive. They don't um, they don't
Respect individual freedoms. Um, yeah, like your freedom to starve to death or die of
Or just even get gold medically bankrupt. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah
Um, so that all that being said the usual caveats, um, yeah
but the um the
Uh, this is a limit and I think we're seeing this
more and more of
Not just the u.s. system, but the system generally
where it's
increasingly
erratic
as resources
start to become more scarce and as
um
as
The pressures start to become kind of more acute the the system of
Economics that we have globally
Uh is
Heart is more and more erratic. It's not delivering stability. Uh in the way or predictability in the way that it it has and I think like
um
That's not just a function of the planning thing. It's a function of being on a quarter
It's a function of and I've been saying this for years, but it's like it's a function of of having to deliver quarterly quarterly results
it's a function of
Of
How that limits you as far as your your long-term investment and like long-term thinking, but I think like
Yeah, it's it's the internal contradictions of capitalism
Yeah
Like
We're reaching the the point. We are up against those
as I like to say the
The uh contradictions are becoming heightened. Uh, I said it's a little bit more folks
But it's it is it is a weird
thing though because it's like
the
And this is another topic. We've been discussing lately too, but I think like the kind of like
I don't like the tab boos around discussing that or the the
um, it's like how how do you
Even if you're an american automaker, how do you how do you talk around that? How do you like? Um,
You don't even like how do you uh
Articulate what's happening if if not for that and I guess like I don't know
It's just like a wishful thinking thing where it's like I will go back to someone who who offers a little bit more stability and then like
That's the answer to the
problem that we're like, I don't know. It's a very like I said, it's like, um
Yeah, I don't think they can
Uh, I don't I don't see anybody really trying to
um
And moreover, I don't think it makes any fucking difference because the entire rest of the world is
like I mean
like we're seeing this happen in real time as
as
You know all these these other other players other, you know, like smaller players on on the global stage
um
Who have traditionally looked to the us to provide that platform of stability
um
Which which just
The world needs in order to function just, you know economically
um
And and seeing that like we're we're incapable
Of providing that anymore and and so so you see you see these these countries just out of necessity
um
Turning to to alternatives, you know in china being like the the the most obvious one because it is you know
It's the fucking biggest economy and and you know, they've they've resisted that that kind of mantle of
of um
You know, they they don't want they don't want to be the fucking hegemon. They don't want to be you know
They don't want the fucking reserve reserve currency. You know and and but I mean, you know, you know in in
You know last few months you've you've kind of heard noises
um
From g that maybe you know, they'll be open to you know
Doing a kind of you know
Playing playing more of a role like you know that maybe maybe you know being reserve currency wouldn't be you know
I mean, you know, I mean china does have like uh
You know
they've been pretty good
at
um, I mean arguably
uh, you know, this is
like a point of
Of of contention for for many observers and even many observers on the left. Um, but um
But in my estimation, I feel like they've been very skillful at at treading the line
um between
like
Opening their economy allowing
There allowing a you know for there to be a capitalist sector
In their economy and for that to to operate and deliver
The the things that that capitalism is good at delivering, you know, which is you know innovation and and and and um
And you know quick advancement and and you know that that kind of like growth, you know rapid growth
And frankly like just the money like trade, you know, yeah, yeah, I mean more than more than anything else
It's like, right. Um, it's it's being
involved in
The process of turning raw materials into
Cellful goods like yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the whole thing. It's like making fucking iPhones
Um, but doing that like allowing that to happen under this this larger umbrella of just like
It's also
It's like we are still the fucking communist party and this is still a socialist project
And we are going to fucking put very hard limitations
Uh on on you know on you know, this is going to be heavily regulated and and ultimately all of these fucking
Companies and corporate, you know, they they have to answer to
um
To a larger
governmental structure that is that is designed for you know to to to benefit
You know the fucking people, right? Yeah, and and and not not just
You know this this kind of uh
You know
microscopic kind of ruling class and and uh and investors
Dang Xiaoping may have had some points. I guess we're all gonna have to hand it to
Everybody's gonna have to hand it to dang. That's fine. I don't mind
I mean, so so I mean the the fact the fact that they've they've so successfully kind of treaded that line
um
Like the the thing with with the reserve currency is that
it's your your
When when you allow yourself to do that you you kind of expose yourself in a lot of ways and and um
And and uh
And you can
You can take advantage of it in in a lot of ways that you know that the us has and and
And as a result of that the us finds itself where it it does now
Um, but that's so that's like um, I think though to your point about stability though
Like that's exactly it is like we did we have fumbled the ball on exactly the mechanisms that we use
By being the reserve currency like we for the longest time we were maintaining a uh horrific but
consistent balance with our sanctions regimes against places like uh, Iran and
Now that we have flipped to know actually we're going to come in and we want to start muscling you around
I mean same with venezuela like that is a
massive change and a massive signal to the rest of the world and all those smaller countries like you're talking about
Everyone else sees that we are not
We are no longer playing like carrot and stick
We are just hitting you with a bat and like that can't like everyone was willing
I think put up with a little bit of like well, they're gonna hit that guy with a stick
But I do get the carrot so like maybe it's okay and now it's like oh no no no no no
But also I mean the classic thing with fucking sanctions is that like
those work when you're when you're like
selectively punishing
you know
Bad behavior like you know people who are who are out of line with what you know what you deem to be bad behavior
um
That you that you need to discipline
um
But when you're fucking doing it to half of the fucking planet
You're incentivizing all of those people
to be like
Hey, you know, I mean, it's like the thing with russia, you know, it's like we're fucking when
You know when russia finally goes into ukraine and it's like okay. We're we're gonna take them off of fucking
You know, what's what's the the swift or whatever?
Um
It's like oh wow, how is russia going to fucking survive they can't they can't uh,
You know, they can no longer participate in in the global economy
um
Well russia has like a fucking shit ton of resources that the
The rest of the world needs and they're gonna fucking find a way to get it without you know like
Outside, I mean you are you are you are actually, you know by sanctioning you are you are forcing them to develop
um
Systems outside of of the ones that you've established and that have benefited you for fucking you know
Like a century or whatever you create a reason for that to be a whole system of transactions without us dollar nexus
No, you I mean, it's just you it's just like you've overplayed your hand
just like in a
In a very fundamental way and I I don't think um, I don't know. I mean it's just
I feel like yeah, it's just it's the contradictions. It's it's it's the the the the drive the need for for just infinite
growth that that capitalism demands
um
Forces you to
You know at at at a certain point overplay your hand in in that way
Yeah, I I guess too like what I'm kind of trying to get to is
um
the
If you're an american car maker
um hoping to like continue uh or like but maybe expand or whatever it's like
How do you
Or even I would say like a western, you know, like even even the chairman's probably have to be thinking about this too
but it's like, um
You you're looking at china you're looking at china. It's like very rapid advancement in
car making and like being able to like to
kind of
you know
probably like a level of
advancement and also like
Activity that has not been seen globally since
The early turn of the 20th century
um
And you're like, well, why can't we do that?
Why don't we have that and it's like well because like your system is fundamentally schizophrenic like there's like, um
there's just there's um
Again, there's like these these hard limits in it. Um, and it's like, you know
China with the ev thing. I think it's so instructive because it's like
It's like the way that they did it and the way that they made those investments before it was profitable before it was going to
Be profitable before it even made sense and then just kind of like kept their foot on the gas or
Accelerator, ha ha ha if you want to do that
the entire time
it's like, um
You could you can't do that and like America right now in the west is kind of finding out that you can't do that and it's like
The the thing of it is like the ev thing for whatever
environmental benefits there are to it for whatever
um
whatever
Uh
Other kind of touchy-feely. This is good for the world type of benefits
the um
They are cheaper to make and they are like more profitable on a buy car basis
Like if you can get to scale with them like there are just fewer parts and they're easier to put together and they're they're
They're more versatile. They're easier to maintain like it is a good
You know, I can remember like being in a room, uh with mark rice talking about this
10 years ago now or whatever and he was like these the thing is he's like our margins are going to be so much better and it was like
Regardless of what you feel about the cars like the margins are like this is a business
Yeah thing it's like fewer workers fewer factories fewer parts like it's a win across the board and it's like
You can't do it. You just can't do it and it's like how many things
Are like that now, you know what I mean where it's just like
Sorry like the the the limits of why couldn't they do it?
Because they were not short term profitable and that's that's the they couldn't get they couldn't get support to make it happen
so it's like
um
the the
Long term thinking in the united states would have had to have been
We're subsidizing these things at the point of sale not not a tax credit for rich people. Yep. We are
Building infrastructure. We're putting chargers every five miles everywhere in the fucking country
This is a 10. This is a 10 year project. Yep, and and it's going to cost a lot of money, right? But the thing is it's like
the the
fact that like our bridges are collapsing in the united states is not
Is not
Like that is a systemic thing like that's not that is not a that is not a political problem
That is a systemic. This is the system. This is what the system is doing and it's like
Or is what it does and it's like it's it's a strange thing and I feel like there's there's this
You know the the system that we have in the united states was almost perfect for
development between like the 1800s and the
The 20th and going into the 20th century like you really couldn't have asked
For a better system to make that stuff happen. You know what I mean? Like that it was it was perfect and like
uh, I mean obviously imperfect in a lot of terrible outcomes, but as far as like as far as like
Where we were technology wise where we were capacity wise like what?
What um
Kind of needed to happen in terms in terms of just of just developing an industrial base. You know, it's like yeah
That's it. That's that's the shit that set us up to
to
you know
To be the global head to yeah to to fucking you know
Yeah, I don't want I don't want got to be careful
Not say that we that you know that we won world war two, but um, we certainly came out of it better than anybody else
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah
so
What whether someone else won it for us and uh, we got all the benefit of it
Easy case to make
All the work that we came in and we pride all the guys out from one of their boots and say we want this guy
Actually, we'll take that. I'll take this guy. We're gonna have this guy make us rockets. Thank you. Bye. Yeah, I mean
Yeah, and also just the fact that we never got bombed or invaded. I mean you think that was you're just so much
Well, that's yeah, exactly the world's reindustrializing the accident a geography that that has made us um,
Yeah, so but but the point the point of that is is like
There's there's it was like I said this this kind of
um
Really did everything I needed to do
Uh, but now you're running up against these these kind of hard limits
And it's like is as much now too is like American automakers have taken an interest in what the chinese are doing
You have to wonder if they're looking at that being like, huh?
Like why can't we do that and it's like it is also like what we were talking about earlier today
It's like you wonder like
I mean, I don't know being being an auto executive in the united states is like a very tight little box to be in
As far as like what you're even allowed to think about because like
you know, it's like
Let alone talk about or talking about
You're not getting like like a lot of like
intellectually well rounded
super cultured
No, I mean, I do I do know those those types of auto executives like those people do exist
But I think like they're also in the position that they're in
because they're very
clear about what the
Frontiers of what's possible in their job is and it's like I think like
The getting to that level in a major corporation America
Is is always about what is what is possible where you can be successful like in the
Um
In the window, you know, I mean that you're that you're operating and so it's not about like
Thinking the biggest thoughts are being like like a revolutionary in any sense of the word. So I think like
um
But again, it's like you do have to wonder like this better exposure to this long term thinking and long term planning
It's like man, that would be nice. Like that would be really nice to have a 15 year plan
Uh, I don't think they would want to like top down. They would they don't want to be taking orders
They certainly don't want to be held accountable in the way that Chinese executives are held accountable
God, no, uh, but it's like if you want to if you want a model of stability and you want a model of
um
Of predictability, I mean, I think like that's the proofs in the pudding with with with the last 10 15 years of development in china
um, and it's I don't know it's really like
I cannot
It's like whatever like publicly or privately if they were car executives or car companies that were like in favor of the trump
administration
in
2023 2024
for
Uh, they certainly are not now. I mean, this is got this is this for whatever you benefit you get from deregulation. This has got to be
the hardest
Most frenetic environment to operate in as a business period like yeah, especially at a business at that that scale
It's got to be just absolutely maddening
um
Well, and I feel like I feel like what's
I feel like what's coming in the next 12 months
I'm just going to be so much worse. I mean, it's like
I mean, that's a it's a perfect example. It's like, okay, uh, give us basically the permission structure
to eliminate all of our ev development
And like give us also no no reason to continue it. We're not supporting infrastructure. We're not supporting
The tax breaks we're all to the staff and then it's like, oh by the way gas is going to be a $10 a gallon. It's like like
Uh
Because because of something we could not even tell you were like we were not even planning to do this six months ago
Like you know what I mean? It's like we just decided a couple days ago to do this
and now it's gonna
but it
And it's like I don't know. I don't want to make this a whole like uh, oh trump's the chaos guy or whatever
but it the my bigger thing is just like
And I
As we've talked about it's like a lot of other people have talked about too like the trump chaos thing is like it is
Just like the inability to fix bridges just like the inability to plan ahead just like the inability to like stick to
um to to whatever
at your company
it's like, um
This is part and parcel of this is how this works. You know what I mean? Like this is what it is expressing itself
exactly
Uh logically, you know what I mean? Like it's not broken. It's just this is what it does and it's like
Yeah
and it's like
But it's like what what comes after that? What do you you know what I mean? Like what is the
That's a really interesting thing. I you know, it's like you would never in a million years
Be able to have a deep enough conversation with somebody with decision-making power to get the answer to that question
Or like is that even being thought about or what the?
But it is it is it's something I spent a lot of time thinking about you know what I mean?
Like if you're if you're in charge of american honda, you're in charge of general motors or whatever
um
It's got to be uh, I don't know or maybe they don't think about it at all
Maybe it's just like okay, like we're just going to operate
You know like we'll we will wipe the slate clean every day and and operate from a new set of assumptions and
And just keep going which again. It's like maybe
That's how you become the um the car executive. I think like
um
There are also car executives who it's like having the the memory of a of a gold fish
Well, like a defensive back where it's like yep, that was fucked up. All right. What are we doing tomorrow? Like
uh
but I think the uh
We you know, I know car executives. I've talked to
At length who like are very smart people who I know know a lot of the same stuff and think about a lot of the same
Stuff that I think about yeah, but they also know that they're being a car executives depend on them
Never thinking about that out loud or like discussing it out loud
um
It's like because like a lot of which is bizarre. I mean it's just like
Because I mean those those thoughts
I mean are natural. Yeah, that's it. Well, it's not just natural, but they're they're fucking important
I mean, I feel like
Like this moment. It's just it's just you know, uh
Case in point. Yeah, I mean if you do think about this stuff
On a corporate level
You might be better prepared to to respond to it. You know and you might you might have have
You know, you might have a long-term plan
um, you might develop a strategy that that you know of of
Somehow balancing
You know the needs for kind of you know short-term stuff to keep the fucking investors happy over here
While you're also building a kind of long-term
Plan over here, you know towards towards, you know, I mean and I would say to profitability, you know
I would say like that is what
It looked like in the gm level like that is what they were doing pre trump with like they're making a ton of investments and
in um self-driving and an e-v and like in a bunch of other stuff batteries and whatever
And it just got wiped off the table
um
but
And I but that's a mistake. I mean, it's it's it's it's it's a strategic mistake to just to just go like
Oh, we don't have to worry about any of that now
Because well because it's like those changes
uh
Those changes aren't permanent
to quote
To quote the rush song
Yeah, but the change is
The whip sighing thing probably is it's probably a um the future of the next several years, but I think the
um
I don't know. I mean, I I guess like
um
I I think like I said, I think like part of the reason why you get a job like that
Is not thinking too deeply about is there a systemic problem?
With the government in the united states or with the the financial or like economic system of the west like I think that's like
That's too big of a question for a car executive to grapple with
Uh, even if it is very important to their continued survival
As companies but
I don't know. It's like a it's like, you know, it's like another kind of uh system
I think a contradiction inherent inherent in the system. It's like, yeah the
Like the
system self-selects
these types of people who are able to not not get too wrapped up in the
Broadest possibilities and focus exactly on the the set of problems that they have in front of them
Yeah, which again like leads them back into short term orism or short term short term thinking but
I think any any us autumn manufacturer that wants to survive
long term
Even the next 10 years
I think they would they would do very well. They would be very very, uh, smart
to to hire
a um
An advisory board. Yes of of of some, uh, kind of
Globally minded long term minded
Possibly, you know
politically, um
Heterodox
Very wise minded, uh, uh people
Um, and I don't know. I mean, I you know
You can do consultancy. I'd be I'd be willing to to consult on a on a limited basis for for um, you know an appropriate
Compensation
Sure
Just thrown it out there just kind of any uh, any high level executives at at any of the the big, um
Well, what are there? Are there two or is it big two now really?
I mean we can call big three. Sure. Well that I mean the thing is is like we there's two that are
Controlled by people here. So yeah, I guess that's that's two. Yeah
Um, yeah, I'll put my hand up
I mean, hey look
If the thing is though is uh, if you would have been able to tell an automaker
A year ago, which you would have that they were going to invade Iran and it was going to have disastrous consequences
You would you would have saved them a lot of money like it would have been worth whatever fee you were going to try to do it
Genuinely, that would have been money. Well spent crazy
All all I'm doing is just someone will write this down
You don't have to act on it. Just write it down and in a year come back and if I was right, maybe you pay me again
Weird day today it was like, um
It was cold this morning and then
I had I had to like I had to do an oil change at some point today because
Like I wasn't my oh, I was still good
Like I didn't really need to change it for another 1,000
plus miles
um
But I'm gonna be driving like
2,500 miles
Yeah, it's like I better fucking do it and it's just been you know, it's been so cold and I just think of just
That oil congealing over the winter in the
crankcase
um
But uh
Yeah, I was just I was just telling matty rory that I changed my my oil today
um in preparation
To drive to to sea bring I'm going going to sea bring
this week um
because um
Because I don't know because I it's it's been on my short list for a long time now and and um
And I don't know that it's gonna happen next
Yeah
It's like we literally can't afford to fuel the cars
It has been cancelled before um in 74. Um, really?
Yeah, I do I have a story half written for you rory. I've been I've been just like this weekend has just been I've been so fucking up against it
um
With a million things, but I'm trying to to to to get this story together about just um
Although these races having been cancelled, uh, f1 finally
um
admitted that
South arabian and and uh, barenk romprey are not happening
Much to the uh disappointment of classic f1 heads who love the
Uh the tracks in uh those places
There I I feel like I I made I made that joke
Before oh no, it's not in here. I think I screen capped it and meant to send it to you guys and I um forgot
Let me see if I can find it
um, but it was just
Uh, where's my desktop? I can't oh there it is. Um, let me see if I can find
I always have like a billion screen caps
um
Yeah, this is just from from from one of the reddit threads about um
Can't cancellation of maybe of like the the wek race
This guy just says if we get rid of all the middle east tracks, world war three is a sacrifice. I'm willing to make
Gone get them out
uh
but um
Anyway, so so yeah, um
But I'm gonna I'm gonna go go to seabring. So I'm uh excited about that and it's a very long drive
So so I did it. I did have to change the oil
uh in my car today and kind of preparation for that and and um
I do I I never mentioned on here. I um
A couple of weeks the the roads here have been so fucking destroyed by this winter
and um and a couple of weeks ago
um
I was
driving my daughter and her friends around and
Um, and I hit this fucking pot and the thing is like I saw it coming
You know, it's that thing like where you see it like, you know
10 10 15 feet out and it's like oh, that's gonna be bad
And it's like and I was on this
Like I had no room to swerve like there was no I was bought you know
It's like there was a car to my to my right and there's oncoming traffic, you know, and it's just like fuck
And and I mean it was fucking savage man. I mean it it hit
It hit so fucking hard that like it turned the wipers on you know
And and like and and all these girls just were just like
Like, you know, they thought that we had just been killed or something that we had just got in in an accident and it's just like
Oh, and I was just like god fucking damn it and and um
Went home, you know drop them off wherever they were going and went home and yeah sure enough
my um
my left front
Um, uh, Sparco Terra
cool
Wheels that I got that I got for my winter tires when I got the car
um
It was
Fucking
Totally bent
Visibly, you know bent and I did try I did try rubber hammer
I found the rubber my rubber hammer Rory at yours and Justin and tried that it wasn't it wasn't uh
and and and and actually, you know, I I did kind of do some some looking around online and and um
and the general consensus is that with um
I can't remember. I I I did look it up that it's it's like
I guess it's is it is it cast aluminum? It must be cast aluminum forged forged is better. Is that is that what yeah
So these these are cast and and it's just like yeah, basically if you I mean you can you can heat it up and you can
Yeah, I don't do that
Get you know get it back to to round but um, but you're gonna
Uh, yeah, the integrity of the wheel is gonna
Is not is not the same after that wheels are crazy the this is like
Um, have you ever seen the video of cutting a wheel with a sawzall?
No
The amount of tension that wheels are under internally is insane like the like so the heat treat thing is like very
important and like
um
the
the um
Yeah, like the fatigue metal fatigue is a huge huge thing, but like
wheels themselves like under are under a tremendous amount of strain
Just as they sit. Um, yeah. Oh interesting. Yeah, never thought about that. Um
Yeah, anyways, so long story short. I just fucking bought another wheel
$300 fucking wheel classic
Because I had money when I bought the car. Yeah, I was less of a consideration
It's like now I would just get fucking black steelys. Um, but uh
So so that sucked but but the thing is it was the the tire was still holding air
I took it to you know tire shop, you know here and and just said hey, can you guys just throw this?
You know, I think I think the tire is okay
Um, and they did and it's been fine. It's been you know, and you know on the on the new wheel
um
But I've had I've I've just I've had in the back of my mind
Like like my you know my alignment's got to be fucked
um
And and like and I'm also kind of like worried that like that like I damp
You know that like I fucking like damaged the wheel bearing or just or just you know
Like like some part of that front suspension
I mean it took such a hard hit and so so I've just been like
driving around like
You know, you know, you know when you get that shit in your head and you're just you're listening for just like the slightest
You know anything and it's like. Yeah. Fuck is that is that is that the wheel bearing?
You know what you know and like any any variation in like, you know
The the road surface or whatever like you get it. You're just like oh, what's that? You know and and um
So so I'd like to just uh request uh and and it'll be fine from it'll be fine
Absolutely fine. Yeah. Yeah. No 100%. Thank you. Yeah, there's no no question
Yeah, because I mean this did happen like I don't know like three weeks ago. Maybe maybe more like I would have
Yeah, and and the thing is
um
Had I made the call on going to sea bring earlier
You know, I'd been kind of on the fence about it. I would have taken it into the dealer and just said
um
Yeah, please just look this over and tell me it's all right or if I can replace whatever needs to be replaced
Uh, it's literally it'll be fine. There's no way
Peter if my old honda accord could make it down between new jersey and uh south of miami places
That shall not be named back and forth a few times. I think you you'll probably you'll be fine
You and you and the honda are gonna be a okay. The uh, yeah
I mean all the feel better all the force went into bending that piece of a
Sparko sacrifice itself for yeah, I mean really for the which is what it's for. Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's right. Yeah
Crumbles no problem
Um, yeah, it'll be it'll be 100% fine. No question. Good. All right. I'll put my seal approval on it
um
Yeah, so the honda zero real bummer
All right, b
You know, it it is funny. I was it was and I may if I have time this week
I want to write something about this, but it's like I really did
I was really charmed by that car person
The way it looked and like the ambition of it and I loved that it was coming from honda
Because in many ways that they're just such a humble company like it says and I don't mean that in like a
Humble isn't small or shitty. I mean it just like like
from a um
Spiritual in a spiritual sense
Not an ostentatious company. Yeah, but they're but they're also I mean they also have like a history of like
like real
Ingenuity and innovation like like technologically, you know and and being overly humble about it the entire time. Yeah
Yeah, yeah, and and I feel like like that that car and especially like the the stuff that I mean I'm I'm still
so intrigued
and and puzzled by by the whole like
No, we're gonna we're gonna have less torsional stiffness. I know you know like um
Like I really hope that that they um
They find that like that I that that idea that concept
Can somehow find find its way if not to mark it just like to to to further develop someone should be able to drive one
yeah, um, just because it's it's so
counterintuitive and and um
and just genuinely radical and and and in like like that that's the kind of
of really radical thinking that um
that
I think I feel like honda has has kind of
Exemplified kind of throughout its history and and and and it would be you know like a very it's like that car represented to me
just like a really
fascinating example of
of that, you know
yeah, I I think like for me it's like
This has to be kind of a
internally like culture wise
Moment of reflection for honda, I think
uh where it's like
um
You know, there's some kind of competing
um stuff happening with like the zero and
the eb thing and kind of like
you know, I
I did I asked at a round table
Maybe a year or two ago. Um, I was like do you guys feel like vindicated?
Uh by the eb thing kind of not happening like since you were and like some of the execs there were like yeah
We're I feel like we're still behind and we need to catch up right and some of them are like well
No, like this actually has worked out pretty well, and I was like
Uh that they kind of struck me as unusual in a car company to have that kind of lack of agreement on something like that
But the point is
To me it is like uh, if you're if you're honda kind of trying to question
um
Kind of how you come out of this
I think um the question that was a failed sneak on someone's part trying to get the
the uh
recycling out of the
closet um
but if um
If you're questioning how you come out of this and like what you are I think like honda has a very
good um
History for this moment. So like if you're looking at this moment right now of like
Whipsawing priorities can't predict anything gas is expensive
um
You know consumers are priced out of cars. It's like honda is
uniquely in a position to kind of
um
Meet that meet those meet those circumstances. So it's like
um, you know if anyone can has the engineers and the talent and kind of the um
Engineering talent, but also kind of like the um
Spiritual like alignment, I guess or like the width with that situation is honda. It's like wisdom. It's like yeah
I don't know if wisdom is the right word. I but it's like um
Like honda honda's first like kind of rise to global prominence happened under very similar circumstances
where everything was kind of chaotic and like
Oil prices were up and you know oil crisis
Yeah, well crisis if you will and it's like uh, and everyone was involved actually
But uh, but it's like, you know, they they got through it by by providing people with like
um cheap
hyper reliable cars that were fuel efficient cheap to run and um
That were like very broadly appealing besides all of that stuff like they were fun to drive and that employed employed
into some ingenious
Uh, yeah engineering, you know, yeah, I've been thinking a lot about the honda fit
Yeah, oh, it's a great time for the honda fit. I gotta say it would be a great time for a car like the honda fit. Um
smart smart packaging and it's like, you know, it's like whatever if if
If there's a question about like whether honda kind of got away from what it's good at or or kind of lost sight of like
what its core competency is with these cars like
In my mind and I think a lot of people's minds globally like that is honda's core competency as a car like the fit
um
Where it's like ingenious packaging
fun to drive
And affordable and efficient like you know what I mean like it's like, um
Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think like it is um
You know, like I said when you have these moments of of crisis or identity or whatever it's like it is
Always instructive to to look back at like, okay. What do you get at?
What can you actually do well and what like would do people look to you for?
And I think like I don't know that's what I've always looked on to for so
Uh that and a cheap k24a from a boat. That's true
Yeah, the other thing I always look to them for
um
But yeah, I don't know it's it's um
It seems like it seems like that they would be they have a good foundation to go back to which is which is always nice
Um, you want to wrap I think we're
cool
All right
Let's wrap. I gotta clean my entire office. I have um, this is not for a pod. Um, but I have
um
Stay tired everybody
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