Episode #228 - Disaster Class Luxury CarsAnother Pointless Automotive Podcast · Jun 10, 2026
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Term
HD era
“HD era” refers to the period when Gran Turismo shifted to high-definition visuals. That typically means sharper textures, better lighting, and more detailed car models compared with earlier, lower-resolution releases.
A VR headset is a headset that puts you inside a computer-generated 3D world. They’re using it so you can look around a car as if you were standing next to it.
The Ferrari F40 is a very rare, very fast supercar made by Ferrari. It’s known for having a more exposed, mechanical look compared with many modern cars. The conversation is pointing out how impressive it is to see in person.
The BMW 7 Series is BMW’s big, high-end luxury sedan. It’s the kind of car that has lots of features and electronics, so if it’s not maintained, it can turn into a frustrating mess to own.
Low mileage means the car has been driven fewer miles than average. The point they’re making is that a low-mileage car can feel great at first, but it can still get expensive to maintain as it racks up more miles.
The Alpina B7 is a luxury BMW that’s been upgraded by Alpina to feel more special and more comfortable. The host is describing early versions and how their exterior and interior details stand out.
“Money pit” means the car ends up costing a lot more than you planned. It’s usually because repairs or upkeep are expensive.
Term
super clean
“Super clean” just means the car looks and feels really well kept. In the used market, that kind of condition usually costs more than a typical example.
A V8 is an engine with eight cylinders arranged in a V shape. In this context, the host is talking about the V8 in the Alpina B7 and how it’s tuned to make a lot of power.
“100,000 miles” is a commonly used threshold in car ownership discussions that often marks when maintenance costs and wear-and-tear become more noticeable. In this segment, it’s tied to the idea that the car was kept running long enough to reach that mileage, likely through expensive ownership decisions. It’s not a technical term, but it’s used as a meaningful ownership benchmark.
A “lead sled” just means a heavy car. The host is pointing out that even though the car is heavy, the brakes still feel great. So it doesn’t feel like a sluggish, hard-to-stop cruiser.
A panic stop is when you brake as hard as you can in an emergency. The host is saying they didn’t even have to do that to feel how strong the brakes are. It suggests the car can slow down confidently even when it’s heavy.
“Engine out” means the mechanic has to take the engine out of the car to fix something. It usually takes a lot more time and labor than repairs you can do with the engine still installed.
PCV is a system that helps an engine get rid of crankcase fumes in a controlled way. If it’s not working right, the engine can start using more oil and build up extra pressure, which can lead to bigger problems later.
Valve guide seals keep oil from leaking past the valve stems into the engine’s combustion area. If they fail, the engine can burn oil, which can cause smoke and oil consumption—and sometimes the repair is big because the heads have to come off.
A “hot V” is when the turbo is tucked inside the V of a V-engine instead of being out in the open. Because it’s in the engine’s hottest area, it can run hotter and be harder on the turbo over time.
The Nissan XTerra is a midsize SUV built for tougher driving. It’s designed to handle rough roads and still be useful for everyday life. The podcast is mentioning it as a real, current example of that kind of vehicle.
“Bangle butt” is a nickname for the distinctive rear-end styling associated with BMW designer Chris Bangle’s era. It refers to the exaggerated, curvy body shape that some people love and others criticize—especially on early 7 Series cars.
The Maserati Quattroporte is a fancy Italian luxury sedan. The host is basically saying that even if it’s not perfect, it still has appeal—looks good and sounds good—so it’s easier to justify than some other “disaster” luxury cars.
The BMW i3 is BMW’s small electric car. The host is saying it’s a bad experience to own—especially because they think it’s unreliable—and that it doesn’t have any “good enough” redeeming points.
They’re talking about luxury cars that can turn into money pits. The big theme is that repairs can be hard and expensive because parts are difficult to find, and problems show up over time.
DIY means you fix or maintain the car yourself instead of paying a mechanic. They’re saying that even if you’re handy, this car can still be painful to own because parts are hard to get.
“Factory maintenance” means doing the scheduled services the car maker recommends. The idea is to catch issues early so they don’t turn into big, expensive problems later.
Term
electrical grand ones
This sounds like they mean annoying electrical problems that are hard to figure out. When the car’s electronics start acting up, it can take a lot of time (and money) to diagnose and fix.
“Random leaks” means the car starts losing fluids in ways that aren’t always obvious at first. Finding where it’s leaking from can be a pain, and fixing it can get expensive.
The Lexus LC 500 is a high-end Lexus coupe meant for comfortable, stylish long-distance driving. They’re using it as a comparison for how the car looks.
The “check engine” light is the car telling you there’s a problem in the engine or emissions system. You typically need a scan tool to figure out what’s wrong.
The Maserati Ghibli is a Maserati luxury sedan that’s smaller than the Quattroporte. In this part, they’re saying the earliest Ghiblis had a reputation for being unreliable, so the model year matters a lot when shopping used.
This describes a transmission that’s based on a manual gearbox, but the car automatically does the clutch and shifting for you. The “single clutch” part can make the car feel jerky or less refined, and the hosts are saying that this setup was a problem on early cars.
Term
Cambrio Corsa
“Cambrio Corsa” is a specific Maserati variant name tied to a convertible-style model. The hosts are basically saying that particular version is more likely to be troublesome than other versions, so you should be extra careful if you’re shopping one used.
ZF is a company that makes transmissions. The hosts are saying that cars with an eight-speed ZF automatic tend to be less troublesome than the earlier single-clutch automated-manual style.
“Bang for your buck” just means “is it worth the money?” Here, they’re asking whether a Gran Turismo is a good deal considering how reliable it is (especially in later versions).
A Maserati Gran Turismo is a fancy Maserati meant for comfortable long-distance driving, but it’s still meant to be quick and fun. Here, they’re saying the best-case scenario is finding one that’s been cared for and is in great condition.
A “case swap” means taking big drivetrain parts from one car and putting them into another. It’s basically a custom conversion to make the car use a different engine/transmission setup.
The BMW 3 Series is a small luxury car made by BMW. Older versions, like the E30, are popular with people who like modifying cars. That’s why it’s mentioned when talking about swapping parts to build a specific setup.
Powertrain is the set of parts that actually drive the car. It usually includes the engine and the transmission, and anything needed to send power to the wheels.
“K24” is a Honda engine (a 2.4-liter four-cylinder) that a lot of people use for engine swaps. They’re debating whether that engine would be a good choice for the project.
A conversion kit is a ready-made bundle of parts that helps you do a modification or swap. In this segment, they’re saying there isn’t a proper kit, so you’d need to improvise.
A Range Rover is a large luxury SUV made by Land Rover. It’s designed to be comfortable for everyday driving and still handle rough roads. Newer ones have lots of electronics and systems, which is why they can come up in buying discussions.
Land Rover LR4 (often referred to as the Discovery-based LR4 in the U.S.) is a body-on-frame, off-road-capable SUV that’s more about using the vehicle than maximizing luxury features. The host’s point is that among the Land Rover options they’re discussing, the LR4 is the one you’d choose if you actually want to drive it for its intended purpose.
Car
Land Rover LR3
The Land Rover LR3 is an older Land Rover SUV that’s built to go off-road and handle rougher conditions. The host is saying it’s the better buy if you actually plan to use it for what it’s meant to do.
The timing chain is what keeps the engine’s moving parts timed correctly. If it starts to wear out or the tensioner fails, the engine can run poorly and can even get serious damage if it’s not fixed.
Concept
fixing the timing chain
The host frames timing chain repair as an expected “next step” purchase cost when buying certain luxury Land Rover vehicles without maintenance records. This is a practical ownership concept: if a known failure is likely, the purchase price should be evaluated against the cost and downtime of that repair.
Air suspension is a suspension system that uses air bags instead of metal springs. It can raise or lower the car to make it ride smoother and sometimes make getting in and out easier.
A supercharger is a device that forces extra air into the engine so it can make more power. “Sixes” here means an engine with six cylinders, and the host is saying those six-cylinder engines were supercharged.
Air ride suspension uses air bags to support the car. If the system develops leaks or a weak compressor, the car can ride low or stop working correctly.
“Electrical gremlins” means weird electrical problems that are hard to pin down. The car might act up in different ways, and it can be difficult to find the exact cause.
The Jaguar S-Type is a Jaguar sedan. The host is saying that some earlier versions of the engines used in cars like this had problems with the timing chain, which can be expensive to fix.
“Disco” is short for Land Rover Discovery. The host is basically saying they’d like one, even though these kinds of Land Rovers can come with expensive issues.
Term
two door folk
This sounds like the host is talking about a “two-door” vehicle. That just means the car has two doors instead of four, which can change how easy it is to get in and out.
A “safari build” is a style that makes a car look like it’s meant for long, rough trips—like old rally or adventure cars. The speaker is saying that kind of look on a two-door would be cool.
GTI is a Volkswagen badge that usually means a sporty, performance-focused version of a car. The speaker is using it like a style reference for a lower, sportier look.
Camshafts are parts inside the engine that help control when the valves open and close. If they fail, the engine can run badly or not at all, and repairs can get expensive.
Dodge Nitro RT is a specific version of the Dodge Nitro SUV. The “RT” badge usually means it’s the more powerful or better-equipped trim compared with the simpler versions.
The Jeep Renegade is a compact SUV, and the discussion here is about specific Renegade trim levels. The host mentions the Trailhawk, which is Jeep’s off-road-focused trim package (more capability-oriented hardware and styling) compared with regular Renegade trims.
The Jeep Liberty is an older Jeep SUV. In this conversation, they’re saying “Renegade” was once a trim option on the Liberty before it turned into a separate model.
The Jeep YJ is an older Wrangler generation. The hosts are saying the “Renegade” name originally showed up as a trim on the YJ before it became a standalone Jeep model.
The Audi RS e-tron GT is an electric performance car made by Audi. It’s designed to be fast and comfortable for longer drives. The podcast is mentioning it as a modern example of a high-performance EV.
Term
ZF six speed tip chronic
ZF is a company that makes transmissions for lots of different car brands. The host is saying this particular 6-speed transmission is known for having expensive problems, especially if you drive it hard or don’t keep up with maintenance.
All-wheel drive means the car can send power to all four wheels. That usually helps it grip the road better, especially in rain or snow. It can also make the car more complex than a two-wheel-drive setup.
The host means the car was so surprising that it changed what people thought was impressive. After that, other cars’ numbers didn’t seem as wild anymore. It’s basically a “new benchmark” idea.
“Blown” here means the engine has forced induction, usually a supercharger, which helps it make more power. It’s not just a normal engine—it’s boosted.
BMW 5 Series is one of BMW’s most common “everyday luxury” models. The speaker is saying the older version was ending and then something different came after it.
Audi RS 6 is a “hot” performance Audi model. It’s the kind of car that costs more than a normal Audi and is often limited, so dealers may charge extra.
An “upcharge” is an extra amount added to the price beyond the base cost, often used by dealers for limited-demand cars. The host is implying that RS models can be priced above what you’d expect because they’re scarce or hard to get.
Fender flares are the extra pieces around the wheel area. They make the car look wider and help protect the body from dirt and rocks kicked up by the tires.
Concept
grown on me
“Grown on me” means the design started to look better over time. Sometimes you just need to see it more to appreciate the details.
“Six speed swapping” is when someone replaces the car’s original transmission with a six-speed one. The goal is often to make the shifts feel better and to get better gear ratios for how the engine pulls. It usually requires parts from another car and some fitting work.
Mercedes-Benz is the luxury automaker whose models are mentioned here as being targets for six-speed transmission swaps. In the enthusiast world, Mercedes-Benz drivetrains are often swapped because donor parts and compatible transmission families can be found across multiple models/years.
Lamborghini is a supercar brand. They’re mentioning it to show that transmission swaps aren’t just for normal cars—people do it on expensive exotics too.
Term
RS six transmission
They’re talking about a particular six-speed transmission version (“RS six”). The concern is whether that newer gearbox will fit and work correctly in the older car without compatibility problems.
“Dead transmission” means the car’s gearbox has basically failed. When that happens, the car may not shift correctly or may not drive, and fixing it can be so expensive that the car gets written off.
“RS” usually means a special high-performance version of an Audi. If it’s a “one year only” RS, it’s a limited variant, and parts and repairs can be harder and pricier.
“Turbos fail” means the turbocharger stops working properly. That can make the car feel weak and may also lead to bigger problems, because the turbo is a key part of how the engine makes power.
Coilovers are aftermarket suspension parts that let you adjust the car’s ride height and firmness. They can improve handling, but they’re not cheap and need to be set up correctly.
A “manual swap” means changing the car so it uses a manual transmission instead of an automatic. It’s a big job and can be expensive, and the result depends a lot on how well it was done.
A restomod is an older car that’s been updated with newer parts. The goal is usually to keep the classic style, but make it drive better and feel more modern.
The Bentley Flying Spur is a very expensive luxury car with four doors. It’s meant to feel smooth and high-end, but the hosts are saying they personally don’t like how it looks or comes across.
W12 means the engine has 12 cylinders arranged in a special compact “W” shape. It’s a big, complex engine design, and that complexity can make repairs more expensive.
An O2 sensor checks how much oxygen is in the exhaust. A downstream one sits after the catalytic converter, and if it fails it can trigger emissions/fuel issues—sometimes requiring a lot of work to replace.
Insurance fraud is illegal deception to obtain an insurance payout, such as staging damage or misrepresenting the cause of a loss. The host is using it as a dark joke in the context of expensive-to-own luxury cars and the idea that ownership costs can be so high that people might be tempted to game the system.
The Bentley Azure is a very luxury car made by Bentley. It’s designed for comfort and long-distance driving. The podcast is mentioning it as one of Bentley’s special, high-end models.
TDI is Volkswagen’s name for a diesel engine that uses a turbo and injects fuel directly into the engine. The goal is usually better fuel economy and strong low-end pulling power.
The Porsche Cayenne is an SUV made by Porsche. It’s meant to be comfortable and practical, but still drives more like a performance car than a typical SUV. The podcast is pointing out that the early versions can be a good value if they’re in good condition.
Engine failure means the engine has a major problem that can stop the car from running properly. The host is saying early Cayenne S models had this kind of serious issue.
Fuel issues are problems with the car’s fuel system, which can lead to rough running or starting problems. The host is saying early Cayenne S models had fuel-related problems.
Term
O4 model year
A model year is the car’s “version” for that production year. The host is saying the issues they’re talking about were tied to the earliest model-year cars (likely around 2004).
A coolant pipe is a tube that moves the engine’s cooling fluid around the car. If it breaks, the fluid can drain out fast, and the engine can overheat quickly.
“Trans failure” means the car’s transmission has a major problem. That’s a big deal because fixing it can be expensive and may require significant work.
Depreciation just means the car gets worth less as time goes on. Some luxury cars lose value much faster than others, so they can look like a “deal” on paper.
The Rolls-Royce Phantom is a very expensive, ultra-luxury car made by Rolls-Royce. It’s designed to be extremely comfortable, especially for long rides. The podcast is referencing the Phantom as a top-of-the-line model.
Failure points are the parts of a car that tend to cause problems. If a car has known weak spots, it can cost more to own and can make the car worth less later.
The Bentley Bentayga is a luxury SUV made by Bentley. It’s meant to be comfortable like a high-end sedan, but with the space of an SUV. The podcast is talking about an early version they’ve driven.
“Beluga on Beluga” is a fancy way of saying the car is finished in the same dark color theme throughout. The hosts are pointing out that the interior can look amazing, even if the ownership experience isn’t.
Launch control is a driver-assist function that manages engine and drivetrain behavior to maximize acceleration from a standstill. It typically controls throttle, transmission shifts, and traction so the car can deliver its best “hard launch” performance—until real-world issues or limits show up.
“Timing chain guides” are parts that help position and control the timing chain inside an engine. If they wear or fail, the chain can stretch or jump, which can cause major engine damage—so it’s a big deal in ownership cost discussions.
Leasing shifts ownership risk and long-term cost responsibility away from the buyer and toward the leasing structure (monthly payments, contract terms, and end-of-lease conditions). The speaker’s point is that the “value” you’re paying for is tied to the contract and its terms rather than owning the asset outright.
This is the computer that decides when your airbags should deploy in a crash. If it fails, the car may not deploy the airbags correctly, and the car can end up stuck with warning lights or other problems.
SRS is the car’s safety system for airbags and seatbelts. The SRS module is the part that controls those safety features, and when it breaks, it can be hard to fix or replace without the right tools and parts.
This means the part is tied to that specific car’s identity number (VIN). So if you buy a used part from a wreck, it may not work in your car unless it’s set up for your VIN.
A turbocharger is a device that helps the engine make more power. It uses the car’s exhaust to spin a fan that squeezes extra air into the engine so it can burn more fuel efficiently.
The intake is how air gets into the engine. On turbo cars, that air is pushed in under pressure, so the intake design affects how well the engine breathes.
Horsepower is a way to describe how strong the engine is. Higher horsepower usually means the car can accelerate harder, especially if it’s available at the right engine speeds.
Pressurized air means the intake charge is at higher-than-atmospheric pressure, which is typical on turbocharged engines. Higher intake pressure generally increases the amount of oxygen available for combustion, supporting more power—assuming the engine’s fueling and boost control are set up correctly.
RPM tells you how fast the engine is spinning. If a car’s best power is around 5,600 RPM, it usually feels more exciting when you’re revving closer to that number.
This is the government’s test-based estimate of how many miles you can drive on a gallon of fuel. Your real MPG can be higher or lower depending on how you drive.
These are Goodyear tires called the Eagle GT. Tires are what connect the car to the road, so the specific tire model can change grip and handling a lot.
Term
14 inch high tech turbo cast aluminum wheels
These are 14-inch aluminum wheels made using a specific casting process. Wheel size and wheel construction can affect how the car feels when you turn and how well it holds up to bumps.
A turbo boost indicator tells you how much extra pressure the turbo is making. It’s basically a gauge for how hard the turbo is pushing air into the engine.
“14-inch wheels” means the wheel diameter is 14 inches. Smaller wheels like this usually go with smaller tires and can feel a bit different from today’s bigger wheels.
The Nissan 240SX is an older Nissan sports car (mostly late ’80s/early ’90s) that became popular with car tuners. People like it because it’s rear-wheel drive and there are lots of parts and upgrades available.
The Nissan 200SX is an older Nissan sports car from the late ’80s/early ’90s. In this conversation they’re linking it to a turbocharged 1.8-liter engine, which is part of why it fits the “Japanese turbo sports car” idea they’re tossing around.
The Buick Skylark is an American car model from Buick. The host is saying that, back in the 1980s, you could get a version with a turbocharged 1.8-liter engine in some Skylarks.
Term
DET
“DET” is a code name for a particular Nissan engine version. It helps people tell which exact 1.8 turbo engine they’re talking about.
Term
CA18
“CA18” is another Nissan engine code name. It’s the kind of label car people use to identify which engine a car has.
Front-wheel drive means the front wheels do the work of moving the car and turning it. It’s a common setup on smaller cars because it’s simpler and takes up less space.
The Pontiac J2000 is an older compact car from Pontiac. In this context, the podcast is talking about a 1984 version that’s a turbo model. It’s being mentioned as a particular vintage car choice.
This is a 1984 Pontiac Sunbird Turbo, a small front-wheel-drive car with a turbo engine. The hosts are talking about how Pontiac changed the model name over time and what body styles it came in.
They’re describing a car that has three things they like: a stick shift, an open-top body, and a turbo engine. That exact combo isn’t super common, which is why it stands out.
“Iron Duke” is the nickname for a specific GM engine used in some 1980s cars. It’s known as a basic, tough engine, even if it wasn’t the most exciting performer.
A three-speed automatic transmission uses three forward gears and shifts them automatically. Older automatics like this often feel less “flexible” than modern multi-gear automatics because there are fewer gear ratios to keep the engine in its best power/efficiency range.
The Subaru WRX is a sporty Subaru car. It usually comes with a turbo engine and all-wheel drive, and many versions can be bought with a manual transmission. The podcast is referencing how WRXs are often treated as enthusiast cars.
NHRA is a big U.S. organization that runs drag racing events. The discussion here is about a possible membership or racing-related benefit tied to the car purchase.
SCCA is a U.S. club that organizes car events like track days and autocross. The host is saying their car purchase came with SCCA-related paperwork or membership.
This is a Pontiac Sunbird GT with a turbo engine, and “manual” means you shift it yourself instead of it being automatic. The point here is that this exact combo is hard to find.
Bring a Trailer is a website where car enthusiasts buy and sell cars through auctions. The host is saying only a few of these cars have shown up there.
Car
Achieva
The Achieva is an Oldsmobile sedan that was meant to be affordable. The host is basically saying these kinds of cars are hard to sell—until one pops up.
Term
radial TAs
“Radial TAs” refers to radial tires (as opposed to older bias-ply designs) in a tire model/line the host is abbreviating as “TAs.” Radial tires generally provide better grip and more predictable handling, which is why enthusiasts care about the exact tire type on a rare car.
The W41 package is a factory upgrade package that makes a regular car into a higher-performance version. It’s the kind of option that enthusiasts look for because it adds better parts than the base model.
A window sticker is the original price/option sheet that shows what the car cost when it was new. The host is using it to show how expensive the performance upgrade was compared to the whole car.
The Honda S2000 is a small two-seat sports car made by Honda. It’s known for an engine that revs very high and for feeling fun and responsive to drive. The podcast is basically talking about letting someone drive it in a responsible way.
Modern cars run self-checks for emissions systems. When you replace the battery, those self-checks reset, and you have to drive the car so the computer can finish them again.
A camshaft position sensor is a small sensor that reports where the engine’s camshaft is. The car uses that info to time things like spark and fuel. If the sensor is failing or getting oil inside, the car may start acting up and log an error code.
The timing belt is what keeps the engine’s moving parts in sync. It helps make sure the valves open at the right moment. If you’re working around that area, it’s important because timing problems can cause rough running and warning codes.
A pigtail is the short set of wires and connector that plugs a sensor into the car’s wiring. If oil shows up around that area, it can mean the sensor isn’t sealed well and may cause electrical problems. That can lead to confusing intermittent issues.
Engine oil is the fluid that lubricates the engine’s internal parts. Here, the speaker noticed oil leaking out when they pulled a sensor, which can mean the sensor seal isn’t holding properly. If oil gets into the sensor, it can cause the car to read wrong information and throw codes.
ECU stands for Engine Control Unit, the car’s main computer for engine functions. It uses sensor inputs like camshaft position to decide ignition and fuel timing, and it monitors whether signals are plausible. If the ECU sees an implausible camshaft signal, it can store a diagnostic trouble code and often requires a few drive cycles or cold starts before the code fully sets.
A scanner is a tool that plugs into the car to read error codes. Here, the speaker wants to see if there’s a “pending” error that points to the camshaft position sensor. That can help confirm what’s going wrong before the problem becomes more obvious.
A pending code is an error the car has noticed, but it hasn’t fully confirmed yet. The ECU usually needs a couple more starts or driving conditions to be sure. It’s a useful early clue when a problem is intermittent.
A plug wire is the cable that sends electricity to the spark plug so the engine can ignite the fuel. If the wire or its rubber boot isn’t seated right, the spark can be weak or inconsistent, and the engine can start misfiring.
A valve cover gasket seals the valve cover to the cylinder head to prevent oil leaks. When it fails, oil can seep onto nearby hot components like the exhaust manifold, potentially causing smoke/odor and contamination that can complicate diagnosis of other issues.
Term
timing chain wine
They’re joking about a whining sound that might be coming from the timing chain area. If a timing chain or its tensioner isn’t in good shape, it can make a noticeable noise.
Car
Lexus ES300
The Lexus ES300 is a comfortable, smooth luxury car. Here, they’re talking about the engine not idling steadily—revving up and down—which often happens when something in the air intake or vacuum system isn’t sealing correctly.
A vacuum leak means there’s a small air leak in the engine’s hoses or intake system. That extra air can make the engine idle poorly, so it may rev up and down instead of staying steady.
A vacuum line is a small hose that uses suction from the engine to help run certain systems. If the hose is old and leaks, the car can run poorly because those systems don’t get the right signal.
Idle air control helps the engine get the right amount of air when you’re not pressing the gas. If it’s not working right, the engine may idle rough, be hard to start, or stall.
“Code 22” is a specific error the car’s computer stored. Here it points to the coolant temperature sensor, which helps the car know how hot the engine is so it can start and run correctly.
The coolant temperature sensor tells the car how hot the engine is. If it’s wrong or broken, the car may use the wrong starting fuel/air settings and can be hard to start or die quickly.
“Pull a code” means checking the car’s computer for stored error messages. Those codes help you figure out what part is likely causing the problem instead of guessing.
The thermostat housing is a part of the engine’s cooling system where the thermostat sits. If a temperature sensor is mounted near it, problems there can affect how the car reads engine temperature.
“Surge” means the engine speed keeps jumping up and down instead of staying steady. It usually happens when something is confusing the car’s computer about how much air/fuel the engine needs.
OBD is the car’s self-diagnosis system. It stores error codes when something goes wrong, and those codes can be read with a simple scanner to figure out the problem.
Term
paperclip
The “paperclip” is a DIY trick some people use to get the car to show its error codes without a professional scanner. You have to be careful because the connector pins are specific to the car.
LIVE
In a world with entirely too many shows about cars, this is another Pointless Automotive
podcast.
Oh, Nelly.
Briggs in, man.
Briggs in.
How the hell are you, Chadwick?
Doing good, man.
It feels like it's been some time since we've sat down and chatted.
I know.
It's been good.
And I'm like cleaning Trader Joe's peanut butter covered, or sorry, chocolate peanut
butter pretzels out of my teeth.
Let me get one more.
I accused Frank of popping some eddies right before the episode, which would be hilarious
at the tail end segment of this, but he assured me it was just snacks and poppers.
So his keeping a hole will be present in about, I think it's 30 minutes.
Is it that long?
I don't know.
I don't know.
We're having that much fun.
Who's keeping track of time?
Yeah.
Who's measuring Ayn is with?
I'm going to drink a beer on that bombshell.
Welcome to another Pointless Automotive podcast.
You heard the intro.
Who saw what you put on?
Maybe.
I don't know.
Sometimes stuff just feeds in.
And we're hanging out today talking and by hanging out, I don't mean prolapsed.
I mean, we're Chadwick and I are hanging out together when to become one, as Spice Girls
once said, to discuss bad.
It's tricky because it's easy to say bad cars, because we always talk about cars.
Sure, like bad cars as in cars that were like luxurious and aspirational and a great car
when new and now are absolute, I mean, when new and under warranty and when they were
being driven by someone who didn't care about how much time it spent in the shop and just
wanted the aspirational aspect of a super hyper luxury car that people today like to
kind of work around the fringes and like, oh, I can get an incredibly depreciated dot,
dot, dot.
And this sounds like a good idea.
This car was 200 and 12000 dollars new and now I can buy it for twenty
one or twelve or 34 whatever.
That's it.
Good idea, bad idea.
Well, discuss.
Yeah, I know.
Discount luxury nightmares, I think, is is the best way to something.
We're entitled.
Like, yeah, you're just you're just looking at that MSRP and you're like,
fuck, that's that's so much money and I can get it for a tenth of the price.
And it's only been five years.
What a deal.
Yeah, there's there's usually reasons before we get into it, because we like to tease it
before we please it.
Our retro background, which you got in today.
That's classic, my friend.
Grand Turismo 3 for the PS2.
Not going to lie, PS2 is the best system of all time.
Fighting in the comments.
You're probably right.
I think you're right.
Maybe not my favorite, but close.
OK, close.
I think N64 is has a softer spot in my heart.
OK, so I said my close second is Super Nintendo.
So that makes sense, right?
That's right.
The PS2, you were a Genesis kid.
That explains a lot, dude.
Yeah.
Thank God, you're not one of those turbo graphic 16 kids.
But this game is this game's so good.
The first Gran Turismo entry on the PS2 solid game.
Unbelievably good.
Yeah, you know, it picked up.
We're like, I'm trying to remember because PS1, you had a ton of cars.
PS2, you had like a ton of cars, but like no appreciable PS2.
Sorry, Gran Turismo to over Gran Turismo one.
Big, big increase in cars and fun stuff, but not a big increase in graphics.
And then three showed up and it was like, oh, my God, is this real life?
Of course, like now retroactively, it's just like, what are you talking about?
But at the time, it was like, whoa, yeah.
And you still had a pretty decent car collection selection roster.
You got more in four.
I probably have out of all of them, the latest one I've played is four.
And easily the one I have the most amount of time in huge, huge amount of time in period.
You never entered the HD era of Gran Turismo, my friend.
No, you know what I need to do?
I need to get you over.
Yes, I need to get you over.
Oh, poppers down in front of Grand Theft 7 with an ass full poppers
and put my VR headset on you and have you walk around a car.
And it's.
Dude, you can look at the same soundtrack, though.
Yeah, you see, there'll be some sounds.
So when you walk around like an F40 in real life and see all the like bolts,
you can look into the interior and see the exposed bolts and stuff.
The really thin paint, you can kind of make the carbon through it.
It's so on, dude.
It's I got to have you do.
OK, you're going to. All right.
It's so good. All right.
We're doing it. Cool.
And to it, to it.
A retro tune in for a bonus episode.
Well, we'll we'll all do poppers and play play.
Gran Turismo 7.
So we'll combo with or who knows?
Maybe we might be unlocking some like next level human experience.
It's just kind of like the intended use of a medication when it's being developed
is something far different than what it ends up being good.
Right. And then you end up with a little blue pill.
Similar, but different.
OK, anyways, so discount luxury cars.
Yes. So the big thing I think and we can laugh about it,
because we do know these greatest misses albums.
And it's fun to see someone chase one of these cars and like brag about it
when they get it and drive around.
But it's funny. It's funny in a sense, right?
When you see someone one of these cars and we're going to name a bunch.
I got a good list here.
It's funny when you see someone in this, because if they're not doing it
ironically, it kind of is sad, right?
Like, that's the thing.
I mean, it depends.
It I mean,
if it's and I'm going to I'll pull one off of my like mental roll of decks.
OK, that I have is like an ultimate poster child here,
which is the E 65 BMW.
Yeah. OK.
That's that's the Bengal but 01087 series where.
Yes.
The extreme majority of those either are off the road
or if they are on the road, they're holding on for dear life.
And yes, it's like a sad thing.
Like, oh, somebody got this from like the 11th owner
who was, you know, the the aunt's boyfriend's boyfriend.
True. And that and you got it for $1,200.
And you're like, oh, my God, it's got a V8.
And like, yeah, it smokes for like 12 minutes after startup, but who cares?
And like, yeah, the back, the rear windows don't roll up or down
and the power locks don't work and I drive exists.
So. Like, yes.
In those instances, yeah, that then it's like kind of sad, you know?
However, there's that like the top one percent that are still roaming around.
That's like perfect. Yeah. Yeah.
And like it's it's, you know, maybe it's the original owner
and they paid whatever the MSRP of a of a 761760
I was. Yeah, that's pretty fucking cool.
Like it could be. Yeah, I was going to say $12,000 a month to keep it on the road.
But or it's that scenario where, like you said, original owner low mileage
and they just it's their like 15th car in this fleet, right?
So it's got like 6500 miles, so it's still perfect ish
until that mileage goes up.
But I could see that scenario.
I think that's a good point.
Well, I like that you started with a BMW.
Oh, are you? Are you?
By the way, I just looked up real quick with the.
What the MSRP on that was,
you know, in in, I guess that would have been.
Yeah, that would have been 100 and 158 wild one money.
That's like a hundred and 95 now.
Yeah, that's right now.
Yeah, that's well, that's that's what else you got in my BMW choice
for discount luxury nightmare.
It rivals yours, I think it's an Alpina B7.
One of the early ones. Yeah.
How I have come, Frank.
And this is this is you have kids.
So I would have hoped so.
I have come.
That's what you say when it's on your hand.
You're like, I have come.
Man, what's this shit?
What do I do?
I've I've come so fucking close and walked myself down at the last second
of buying an Alpina B7, because I actually think the very early ones
with the single exhaust, like not the exhaust, and it's that flat plain,
like spoiler on the rear, that's so fucking great.
The wheels are so well, you know, wheels are in the interior is so opulent,
like right, the massage sheets and everything.
Anyway, you can see where I'm going with this guy.
So you start naming features like that.
This thing's a fucking money pit.
Like how much were these?
Oh, for sure. Probably a buck 25 I think for a B7.
Got to be a park.
Yeah, I think there were more.
I mean, maybe like a 135
It's it's ballpark. Yeah.
I mean, they're all they're optioned out.
I think. Yeah, I think they're probably 135145
New.
And what's a new one on Marketplace?
Not a new one. What's what's one of those?
What is it? The F the F 01
What are they called that first generation?
Oh, I can't remember. I don't know.
It's like not my that's not really my wheelhouse.
No, it should. And it shouldn't be.
It's like a 20112012
Like what's one of those on Facebook Marketplace right now?
They're like low twenties for running and driving one,
running and or driving. I'm sorry.
Right. To say it like that.
Twenty around twenty K.
I'd say it's probably where you're going to be
if you land on one of those.
Unless it's like a super clean.
I know the later ones do ask a little more money, but those early ones.
I think they're more reliable.
I mean, technically, maybe they just haven't.
No, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, but you look up on Craigslist right now.
What about Craigslist Alpina is?
Oh, it's Craigslist.
It is the Alpina B seven is kind of a cool car to me
because a they massaged 500 horsepower out of that V eight
with a with a little bit of speaking to getting blown, right?
It's it's kind of a cool car, right?
In my opinion, I think those early ones, especially are super cool.
But God, dude, that BMW V eight is already unreliable.
And then you're going to put a blower on it.
Come on, some more power out of it and then add a bunch of bespoke componentry.
Yeah, it can be.
It can get upside down land real quick.
Well, which ones refresh my memory?
Which ones were the same?
Was it the B six?
Because I think that was the B seven was the twin turbo V eight.
Right. Was it?
What was the one that was the seven was a supercharged V eight?
Was it? OK. Yeah.
I thought there was one.
OK, that's what I thought.
For some reason, I thought there was one that was a turbocharged V eight
and then the supercharging.
Maybe this maybe the later one is the turbocharged.
Maybe I think those two are the same that we got because we didn't get.
I don't think we had any B cars before that alpinas.
I think we just had the B seven was the first, right?
Yeah, maybe.
And then what's the SUV one?
Because they made one out of X seven.
I don't know. Either way, I just searched up Alpina and I can get one on Craigslist.
Here's a 2012 for 229
At a dealership.
Yeah, low 207,000 miles.
So Jesus, it will snatch your soul.
How did that make it that far?
I mean, that's the thing.
If it was with the original owner, I don't know, man, I feel like some
mortgages, second mortgages were taken out to keep that guy
out floating to 100,000 miles.
Maybe floating. Usually there are like 50 to 60 drive. Nice.
So, you know, I've never driven one of that generation,
but I've driven one of the the the latest generation,
which is the last of the real B sevens, because now Alpina is been purchased by
BMW themselves.
They did the whole like like Mercedes with the exactly.
So, you know, whatever that means, TBD, but like
the like everything, like it's kind of the jack of all trades, right?
It's lightning fast.
Yeah, like it's enormous.
The thing that impressed me the most was the brakes were so impressive
for a whatever it is, 50, 100 pound lead sled that you just dumped.
Like not that I did like did a panic stop, but just like you can just feel like,
oh, like this this has it like this is a performance machine.
And that's why it costs all the money in the world.
And also why, you know, this car and a lot of these cars pretty much every
car we're probably going to talk about.
Yeah, it's like a hundred and 250000 dollar car.
It doesn't know that it's not worth that much anymore.
Yeah, it still thinks it's worth 100 and 67000 dollars.
And so when it comes to service or it comes to maintenance, it's like, hey,
pay up, you know, big, big leagues, baby.
Dude. And so the one I almost bought was that cool blue.
I forget the name of it. It's I think it's Alpina blue.
Yeah, it looks so fucking good.
It's almost like a royal purple.
It's like almost like a royal blue purpley.
It is. It's like a subtle blue.
It's not like a shouty blue.
It's like super stately and nice, but it looks so good with the wheels
and the interior is what gets me on those those cars is like everything's so cool.
The contrast stitching so good.
The massage feature, like I said, the seats are fucking epic.
Everything that's really not the original BMW parts,
like the Alpina touch is really nice.
Like the plaque is in there and everything.
It's just it's a great place to be.
It's a great car.
The power is insane.
The 500 horsepower and you feel every bit of that
because I think it's a little over 500 pound feet of torque.
Yeah, fuck, it's a cool car and I wanted to love it.
And this one was like 179 and it was like 85,000 miles for 2007.
And I was like, I had to step back at the last minute.
I'm like, it would be amazing when everything worked, right?
Like that test drive and everything.
But I know like two months later, I'm engine out for whatever reason.
So yeah, I mean, those V8s are like notorious for having PCV issues
and then just blowing the valve guide seals out of it.
And it's like, well, I guess both cylinder heads are coming off.
And it's like the turbo.
I know the later turbo ones are also a hot V.
And so they like to cook turbos and it's just.
I don't know.
It's funny that we're having this conversation
because we do love you and I, we love a good bargain.
We don't love an overly complex machine.
Yeah, for this like we're we're I've got this XTERRA behind me.
That's an almost overly simplified machine for what it is.
Yeah, but like I'm I'm so gun shy on those cars.
They're very cool.
I'm with you.
I like it's it's not a smart move.
It's not a it's not an easy move, right?
Like I like the risk.
We usually do a lot of risky stuff, right?
With cheap overland show and whatever else we do.
But God, dude, it's just the risk out outweighs the reward
and a lot of these in every single one of these cases.
Let's be brutally honest that we're probably going to name.
I feel bad.
We're beating up on BMW to start this off.
And I mean, they fucking deserve it.
But let's can can can real quick, though, just to circle back to the E 65.
Oh, yeah.
When was the last time you saw a decent specifically the early ones
like the pre pre facelift full bangle butt experience?
Do you think do you think there's a worse automotive?
Let me put it this way.
Do you think there was a worse used automotive purchase?
Period.
Like if someone says, oh, look what I bought.
And especially especially let's let's catch it with this.
Yeah, I bought it.
I bought a new car.
It's really nice.
And this is not a car person.
I mean, oh, interesting.
What did you get?
This is fun.
Like, yeah, I've always wanted a BMW.
And then you're like, oh, what kind of BMW?
And then they tell you, yeah, you know, it's an O 1745
What? What are 760 I out?
Like, is there a worse for a car person?
Is there a worse?
Let's see.
I have some cars coming up that that might rival it.
But your earlier question was the last one I saw 12 years after they came out.
Fair. I mean, you don't you do not see those on the road.
No, for reasons that we just spoke about, but sure.
Yeah, yeah, just and they have zero.
It's one thing it's OK.
So it's like it's one thing if it's like a Maserati Quattroporte,
which maybe it's on your list.
I don't know.
Because like those at least look really good and they sound really good.
And it's made by a manufacturer
that deserve it or not has some brand cache.
Yeah, it does.
So like, OK, like you can understand putting up with a bunch.
And I think that holds some of it, keeps some of its value.
But when it's just like.
Oh, my uncle has an I three when you said you have a BMW, whatever.
And then it looks like the seven series and is horrifically unreliable.
And it has I drive like.
I don't think there are any redeeming qualities in that car.
No, zero redeeming quality.
I'm glad you said Maserati, because I wouldn't go with the Quattroporte.
I would go with a Ghibli.
It's probably the Gibbles.
If you're going to commit to making a mistake financially,
let's go all in on these.
These are and I mean an early one by like the first year of the Ghibli.
I've driven I've driven one.
Mm hmm. And I don't remember what year it is.
I'll have to look at it real quick.
I'm sure a sorted one drove fine.
But dude, if you had to fix anything on this.
So I mean, the Italian design, they're pretty good looking cars.
Good Ferrari-esque sounds.
But dude, the parts alone on this thing would murder you.
Even if you were DIY guy.
Unbelievable, some of the parts and like how much
how hard you have to hunt for the parts to replace anything.
And things are going to break.
Like the one I drove was a 17.
OK, so that's not an early, early.
Yeah, these are not good, dude.
The build quality was horrible.
You can get these all day.
Like look it up right on Marketplace right now, 15K.
You can walk away with a Maserati Ghibli in decent mileage.
Yeah, you can.
Yeah, you can probably get like a 35,000 mile Ghibli for like like a 14 or 15
Ghibli for 15K.
So as far as like, because it takes nothing to salvage it
and it takes all the money to repair it.
So oh, dude, crippling.
Talk about just keeping if you keep up with the factory maintenance on one
of these, not to mention the other things you're going to be chasing
like the electrical grand ones, all the other issues like random leaks.
Like you might just dump all your oil out one day and you're going to have
to solve that problem. I mean, this is what I was like, oh, we actually tried.
It drove pretty good.
It was silver with a red interior.
Yes, but like.
For the amount of headache, it doesn't look that bad,
but it doesn't it doesn't look like a, I don't know, LC 500.
It doesn't look like a insert pretty car.
It doesn't look like a Quattroporte, which is the same manufacturer,
bigger, better looking, a bit.
I'm not a huge fan of those cars, but people like them.
I don't know.
It's do. But the thing is the like the drive, I'm going to drive it.
It's not mine.
Like 55 15 minutes of fame kind of thing versus owning one of these guys.
Dude, it's just the first time that check engine like comes on, it's over.
It's just that especially in your getting in the door for 15K,
there's all kinds of gremlins hiding under that car.
No one's unloading that that turd.
You think at that price, you think it's worse than a than a QP.
In the Quattroporte, similar air, they are.
Yeah, the very first year, the Ghibli was like known as Maserati's like worse,
like reliability car.
But I mean, it's horrible, dude.
Those the early QPs with the the Cambrio Corsa, which was like their
their automated manual single clutch was
cattish, graphically unreliable.
And the MSRP on that car was higher.
And I think the used values probably about the same,
maybe lower if it's a Cambrio Corsa car, if it's a later with the eight speed ZF.
Yeah.
Then like it's not as unreliable.
But I think I think a used value between, say, a 15 QP and a 15
Ghibli is probably the same.
Yeah. But the Ghibli's you could get way earlier than that, though.
And I'm talking about the very early models.
I think it's like a well, we got we got the QP back to like, oh, two, oh, three.
Yeah. Yeah.
But I'm talking if you're going to get on the market right now and by like a
by the first gen Ghibli, I think it's oh, six somewhere in there.
Is it that early? I thought it was six or seven, oh, well, it's somewhere.
Is it that late? I think it is.
I don't know. I'm not absolutely brutal.
I'm not I'm not up on my Ghibli, Ghibli banter.
And then it's funny.
And then you look like, OK, well, what if you want to what if you want to be
spicy and you want a two door and you want to get the Gran Turismo?
I mean, I think in some ways that's almost an OK buy
because they've looked the same for like 20 years.
The early gen didn't have more issues.
They got a little more reliable.
The later ones for sure.
I hope so. For the Gran Turismo.
Well, come on.
But I mean, like, bang for your buck, though.
He's like, Ultima would like to talk to you about getting more reliable over time.
Sure. Jacko has entered the chat.
Now, I don't know. I think anything with a Maserati badge.
I mean, we could it's like it's like, you know, looking for extra details here.
But I think anything with a Maserati badge, that entrance price is so low
that folks in the.
Just say these bags.
We know the kind of bag that's looking to buy a Maserati.
They're not really a car guy.
They want that like something.
Yeah, I'm saying, yeah, there is a counter punch to everything.
But the main punch that these cars sell to you now, the second or let's say
fourth owner of a Ghibli for $15,000 is not going to be a discerning auto
motive enthusiast.
It's going to it's going to be some fucking I don't know how many chains
this guy has, but he has a few.
It's it's going to be a douche.
You're saying and the thing is going to have a check engine light on.
It's going to leak everywhere.
Parks.
You have gone mute, my friend.
I can see you talking.
He has left the chat.
Raise your hand if you can hear Frank.
Why did I go here back?
I did not hit me.
Oh, God, oh, fuck.
So crazy.
Anyways, you look like you're passionate about the ghost of, you know,
a visibly wet with Cologne Maserati owner like me.
Um, shut it down.
I do like the concept, though, of finding the one and only well maintained,
like oh, seven, oh, eight Maserati Gran Turismo.
Yeah, and buying it for like what, 20, maybe for like a perfect one.
Yeah.
And having it be stellar and having it being effectively indistinguishable
from a 20, 24, 20, 25 one.
And then and then you just say, you just lie, just fucking lie.
And just, oh, yeah, no, I, you know, yeah, about a brand new two years ago.
Yeah, it's got 30,000 miles on it.
I fucking drive it everywhere, bro.
Yeah, it was 168 K or whatever, whatever they cause.
I don't even know.
And just like, you can get away with that.
You can, unless you put mileage on it, right?
Well, yeah.
And then it nukes, it nukes itself.
The thing that gets me, though, is if I looked up some like common issues
and like it sounds like something you could tackle yourself as a as a season
DIY wrench turning gentleman, like we both are, right?
But the parts cost will fucking cripple you.
And all your parts, your car was never needed.
Yeah, what's the lack of a list look like for that?
You probably can't even get the spark plugs.
I don't know.
I bet you there's some shared, I bet you there's some parts been shit in there.
No, it like a lot of the horror stories are like looking for a bespoke part
that they think you have to have shipped from Europe.
And it's oddly expensive, dude.
It's just to me, like that that Maserati, like it would be fun.
I like your idea.
Let's buy or we buy so you can buy the cheapest Maserati.
We'll do a road trip.
Oh, are we doing it?
And this, but that's like $5,000 all in that when we when we try to unload
these cars after one of the competitive sections will be who lost the most money
on their on their transaction, because that's what that's how it ends.
You know, it's not already life.
Busted by turbos and it'll be it'll be great.
Kind of like the by turbo, but OK.
Yeah. Case swap.
Case swapping a by turbo would be fucking rad.
Fucking horrible.
We need to we need to pin down friend of the pod art and be like,
look, man, you did the case swap.
On the E30, the real way to do it
is to put that exact same powertrain into a by turbo.
Absolutely.
A K 24 is a natural.
No, what?
Yes, dude.
Yes.
Does anyone make a conversion kit?
First answer. No.
Second answer. It doesn't matter.
Just hack up whatever's in there.
Add some angle iron.
Make it fit.
This is a wonderful idea.
You know, walk up some brackets.
We can do this. What are we doing?
Fair enough. Fair enough.
Um, what else?
We've so we got Maserati.
We just we named all models, basically.
Some some classy beam beamers with a V8.
Yep. Except for the 39 m fives.
Sure. What's funny is so we've been we've been talking
mostly sedans.
Oh, it's interesting.
What about?
Pick your modern Range Rover Dijon.
Dude, whether we're talking about,
you know, something more, more, more land
Rover, like an LR, LR four.
That's the one.
Which is a void, which is I don't know.
I mean, dude, LR three is the one
if you want to drive the thing.
Yes. LR three is the better buy
if you're going to use it for its like
intended use as a vehicle.
Yeah.
Non paperweight.
If you need to go places with said vehicle
to do the LR three, the LR four, though,
the timing chain issues are like a no
brainer. If you don't have any record,
if you're buying one of those,
you're fixing the timing chain.
That first 15 minutes when you get home.
Right.
And I mean, 15 minutes, I mean,
a thousand dollars worth of parts
and probably a couple of weekends.
But what about like,
you know, like the L, like the L three
22 which was that?
Well, what was the first year that was
that? Oh, five.
I think five or 65 or six.
I think maybe earlier, maybe oh, four.
I don't know.
Oh, whatever, you know, early to mid
two thousands to roughly, I think,
like 2012
Yeah.
What's interesting is because it went
through several different power trains
in that generation and air suspension
and this and that.
And, you know, of course, Doug famously
had his with his whole CarMax warranty
shenanigans, not even shenanigans,
just like proving out what we're
talking about here, which is that
like you buy because you can get
you can get one of those with like
not a ton of miles on it for like.
Six.
Like an early one, especially an early one.
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Because you had you had what you had
BMW power plants for a bit.
Mm hmm.
And then you had supercharged sixes,
charge six or was it the OK supercharged
six and then you got later.
Was it the five liter?
Yeah, the eight came back.
The V8 came back.
Right. But then you get and a supercharged,
I think, I think it was the A.J.V.A.
supercharged, which is probably
the one to have, I would think.
I agree. And the five liter version
of that A.J.V.A. came back.
And just like in the LR, LR three
to LR four, you had all the timing
chain, the guide failure.
Like there's so many like as these
cars age, any car, right?
Timing chain or guide failures or what
not to become.
They become like this big, serious
issue, right?
But this truck is 100 percent
like factual.
You will have to deal with that issue.
It's just a matter of time.
It put the you got the air ride
suspension that always failed.
Electrical gremlins on the early,
early ones were like an absolute nightmare.
The LR three didn't have as many
issues like the LR threes V8,
which sure order to have the age.
Yeah, the age of V8 because by then
the earlier versions of that that you
had in like the XJs
and the Jag S type and stuff like
that did have timing chain issues.
But by the time they were put in LR
three, pretty solid, pretty sorted.
Yeah, for it for a land round, right?
Now you had air suspension issues
and stuff like that.
And same with the LL 320 twos.
And then like the later, what was
after I'm not like Land Rover guy.
I don't remember the the terminology
for the one after the L 320
two, whatever that one is, like.
Almost worse, do I say?
You know what I you kind
of unironically want?
I mean, it's that and actually
also ironically want a disco too.
No, I do unironically want one of those.
But yeah, yeah, those will snatch your soul.
Yep.
A two door folk.
Fuck dude, two door folk.
It's like it's
a rose.
It's like an obese.
It's so horrible.
But if you get the early ones,
you got the Ford power plant.
It's like the eco eco tech turbo.
Wow, dude.
But no, but you can use the damn thing.
Like how cool how cool would one of those be?
Like I'm not lower's car guy.
But like kind of like having
like a lowered one like stance,
but like with like, I don't know,
Watts and sticky tires.
I don't know.
Something interesting.
Interesting.
You could do a route.
So far, basically, that'd be kind of cool.
You could do something.
You could go either way.
Yeah.
You go on the way like so.
Yeah, I can go both ways.
The either of like the safari
build look would be dope in a two door
It would be or like a lower
and make it look like a like an obese GTI.
God, it could be kind of right.
That is the nicest thing
anyone's ever said about the exterior design of the book.
I don't think they're that ugly.
I think they actually look OK.
They doesn't mean to be clear.
Let me be clear.
Does not make it a good car.
OK, right?
Like can we can we take it back to LR4s, though?
The LR OK.
The interiors are fucking nice.
I like those cars.
I love the LR4 interior.
Like the LR3, I still think the R3 is cool.
I think it's classy.
But I think the LR4 doubled down like everything looks.
The materials are so much better.
The how everything's arranged.
I really do love the interior of that truck.
And I would snag a later one without much hesitation.
But those early ones with if the timing chain hasn't been addressed.
And I'm the kind of guy that'll get in there.
But it is a pain in the junk.
Pain in the dick, dude.
But you got to know that getting in there.
And I think you're right.
I think that does fall into this.
Definitely what we're talking about today.
It's on my list because it's something that looks and they still look good.
The front end of that truck, like the straight front end shot of that truck
is so timeless, like so fucking good.
I would fuck around with one.
I would honestly fuck around with one.
I think I think the biggest problem that's
about the LR4 is that the LR3 exists, which is like less refined.
And and I think it actually looks more of the off road.
It does.
Yeah, part of that equation, while the LR4 is a little bit more upscale,
a little bit more up model, maybe a little bit more appropriate
for the conversation we're having today.
Certainly, it's unreliability, if that's a word,
is more part and parcel of the conversation we're having today.
The LR3 is like, OK, like you've got air suspension concerns.
Whatever.
Some electrical concerns, the dashes have to crack.
But like, oh, well, that's not that big a deal,
especially for anything from Great Britain.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So yeah, LR3 thumbs up LR4 for some sideways in your butt.
That's where it is.
That's where your thumb is.
No, LR4 is it's definitely one of those things that people buy.
And I think people probably get suckered.
One of those buy here.
Your job is your payment or whatever your credit's your job.
For sure.
They push a lot of those LR4s.
And you know, the people buying them are not ready for that first
fucking mechanic shop visit.
They're just not ready for that check engine light.
How about how about quick quick nod to the
to the early like the early 2000s free lander?
Oh, which is utter pile of garbage.
Absolutely.
I was looking for one that like ran and drove for our cheap
overland challenge, because it would just be an absolute riot
to just destroy it on a back road somewhere.
Yeah, but you just can't like I want to say they broke
camshafts.
They had a bunch of like weird
Britain problems.
Is this kind of like me looking really hard at cheap liberty renegades?
That would have been a good matchup.
That would have been horrible.
Oh, yeah.
I get to dodge nitro RT and like a fucking bad or yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, the renegade, those those modern renegades,
they have the the trailhawk, right?
Then you could you get a trailhawk one?
Are not in the early like I'm talking about that.
Could you the liberty?
Oh, not the liberty. Sorry, I was talking about the renegade.
Oh, it was a trim.
It was a trim level before it became its own model.
Correct. Yeah.
Yeah, it was like the heavily cladded.
There's no positive outcome in that one.
I mean, well, I mean, it was a trim on the liberty,
but it was also a trim on the YJ.
That's right. Yep.
So if you had a YJ renegade, like sure, send it way better option.
Although I feel like for what we were talking about, like
I think we will we also both I feel like quietly
we didn't discuss this, but I think we both quietly acknowledged
that like showing up with any rankler product,
like, yeah, CJ, YJ, TJ is like just like dirty pool.
Like you can't unless I had a case swap or something crazy.
That would be awesome.
Rotary, rotary, YJ. Oh, God.
Talk about reliability.
How about, OK, I'm going to say a car right now
that I've also come close to buying.
This is the maximum.
We're not guys, we're not highfalutin pieces of shit that are
we're not exempt from buying these cars, these kind of cars.
We make a lot of bad purchases, right?
And the next time I'm going to say, I know you like, Frank,
I know you like this car.
This is the 2000 and three only.
Audi RS six. OK.
You know what, though?
Like, yeah, defend the car just because we love it.
Let's hear what you got.
It's an icon. It's agreed.
Agreed. Is it reliable?
No, it's an Audi.
Is it reliable?
Is it unreliable even for Audi standards?
Yes. Yes. Yes, it is.
They love to annihilate transmissions.
Oh, dude. That's what they do.
Yep. Which I'm pretty sure is just the ZF six speed tip chronic.
But they don't I think they're good for like 70,000 miles.
And then they spit the bit, depending on how you drive, expensive.
And like they just they're they're maintenance hogs, which like to be expected.
But it's such it's a one year only God.
And at the time, you know, three when you say
400 and fifty horsepower twin turbo V eight, all wheel drive luxury sedan.
It's special.
There's like there's almost no with like cars are so crazy as far as power
and tech and this and that now.
Sure. I don't know.
That was such a bonkers thing, then.
Yeah, I don't know if there's an equivalent now, maybe, maybe, maybe the Zora.
OK, which is a way different car.
But as far as somebody saying like, oh, it's got this and this.
And you go, whoa.
And it's like kind of like
resets the table as far as like what's kind of crazy.
That is that's what that car did.
Because like the E class was faster and better, frankly.
Sure. Yeah.
You know, made more power, but it wasn't all wheel drive.
It was a superchar.
It was just a blown V eight.
It didn't have the same kind of panache, I think, as far as like pushing the envelope,
at least on paper.
And then, you know, OK.
You had the tail end of the E 39 and five and then into the V ten
and five, which is also pretty bonkers, but a different bonkers.
Yeah, three is a weird time, right?
Like this is our first RS car, right?
This is I was in junior college.
It was a weird time.
It was a weird time.
I just got out of the military.
I just wanted to buy Audi RS six is a brand name from the dealership.
How much was that?
That was a 40 probably.
But 35. I don't know.
I don't know. I think it was up there, dude.
I bet they upcharge on those bad boys.
They're pretty limited, too, from what I've read on.
I want to say something, though.
I think let's do high points, high points of the car.
Like you said, one year only.
So it's kind of cool there.
Yeah, subtle aggression.
I love this era of Audi design, like the fender flares, the grill,
like everything's subtly aggressive.
It's like so well executed.
It's not shouty. It's not cheap.
It's not flamboyant, but it shows like it wears its like performance
in the pop it low carbon fiber on the engine cover.
There's good shit to be had.
Can I confess? Oh, in period, I did not like this design language.
Really? I didn't like it.
I was just like, like, like the tail light,
like the quarter panel treatment in the back was too roundy.
And it's very much grown on me.
I think it's subtle now.
Fender flares is what did it for me. Oh, my God.
It's just right. It's just fucking right.
I.
Yeah, I still want one.
I still want one.
They're getting hard to find clean people price.
They dipped so low, Frank.
These things went for like down to the 12 to 15 K range for drivers.
I mean, you can get like a driver
that you know is like 1500 miles from throwing a check engine light for like under 10.
Right. Not anymore.
Not not even close.
No, no, 20, 20 K gets you a good one now.
Anyone. Fine.
There's only like 2000, I think, imported here.
I don't know. I made that number.
So I wondered, though, you know how.
Some have somehow suddenly six speed
swapping stuff from this era is like the move.
Yeah, people are six speed swapping all kinds.
You know, I know Matt Kwik's operation is doing all the six speed swaps
on the Mercedes Benz products.
And you have people, you know, swapping,
you know, Lamborghinis and Ferraris and things like that.
These were had a pension for popping transmissions.
Yeah, the auto is not the people are people swapping these.
That's my question.
Can you put like an RS for transmission in this thing?
Yeah, I was going to say, well.
The same little.
It's a little less to work, a little less torque, though.
Yeah, I'll be curious if I read it.
I don't know.
Yeah, I got to be a newer RS six transmission
might lock like load in there.
I don't know. You know what?
I've never seen.
That's what I want to say is I've never seen the sixes.
I've seen. I've definitely seen like S six wagons,
which was the the the NA wagon version of the same car.
Right. And they made those factory in Europe with a manual.
I'm sure I'm sure somebody's doing it.
I've never seen it, though, which is with a dead transmission for like
five grand, six grand. Oh, oh, they've gone up quite a bit, dude.
As I said, I do look and they're around 20 now, like 18, 16, 20
for and or also there's like none driving anymore.
I don't know if it's accidents, like just totaling out or, you know,
like if it did either transmission now,
it's probably pretty close to totaling the vehicle, right?
Depending on how he's also pretty notoriously bad for like
doing a poor job of supporting their older models.
They're one year only RS model. Sure.
Yeah, infinitely cool.
And I know we both agree on that, but this is there's a lot of I think it's too
cool for our the subject matter of today's.
Well, here's the thing, dude.
You get one of these and it feels good.
And then the power starts to feel down and you're out turbos
like your turbos fail, which is a known thing on these two.
Like I didn't even talk about dynamic ride, the whole suspension set up.
It has, which is fucking super expensive and prone to fail.
So there's a lot of like really scary things, but coil overs, manual swap.
Let's fucking go.
That'd be, dude, how good of a car would that be?
That would be excellent.
That'd be a keeper. Yeah.
Oh, that'd be a good one.
It'd be a good one.
And nobody has ever said that at all about a Bangalbut seven series.
No one's ever like, this is a keeper.
Yeah, no, no, I don't care.
I don't care what you do.
See, that's like when we when you and I, whenever we get, I don't know,
Epstein, Rich, I don't know what the right amount of room is,
but I think that's way too far.
That's way too far in one direction.
But he was simply a New York financier.
OK, one of the original Island Boys, too.
Yeah, the Island. Yeah.
Do you think do you think the Island Boys have been to Epstein Island?
Absolutely. They're too old.
But the like.
The hell was I going?
Oh, yeah.
When we were there, we get a masseuse massage artist or Epsteinian levels of wealth.
OK, we're going to like Resto Mod and one
V 127 series, six speed swap, you know, just like make this
the most to silly unhinged, just take all these unloved cars
and make them get that case swap by turbo, you know?
Yeah, make them absolutely amazing.
Or just or mediocre, which would be a huge, huge increase.
Did you have anything like at the front of your head that you want to call out?
Because I got another one here.
Um, that's readily available for a cheap price.
Would it be the Bentley flying spur?
It's not because you can get a same same deal like early like mid 2000s.
Bentley flying spur for no money.
Can I no money?
I mean, like 15 with a factory sticker of like 220.
Can I say something in this?
This might not be polarizing.
The RS six is objectively a good looking car.
Yes. The Bentley flying spur does nothing for me.
Um, I largely agree.
But like the kind of weird.
It's I don't it's just a weird, lumpy looking thing.
I don't know. I mean, I think the Continental looks a little better.
Like as far as like the coupe, sure.
But the flying spur just kind of doesn't I know.
But I'm saying you can set a fire to my mind.
No, I mean, neither does the Bengal, but what I'm saying is like
what's what's I don't know.
I'd have to look up the like the factory.
The factory MSRP of like an 0506 flying spur.
I think you're right.
I think it's like 195 for the considering you can just like
casually go out and grab one running and driving.
Well, for the time being W12 with 500 and whatever, five, I think are
550. Yeah.
And they always have 40, 48,000 miles because sure.
Can they spend years between maintenance check ins?
Well, that and it's just like, yeah, because the maintenance is so
agree just like expensive, even for out like an independent.
If you can find one that wants to touch one of these cars there.
Like, what did I see?
I know I think it was on a continental same powertrain, right?
The two door where I forgot it was like, oh, it needs it needs.
It needs a downstream O2 sensor engine out.
What? Yeah, it's like 36 hours of labor or something.
Cool, tight.
Yeah. And so like just absolute heartbreaker.
But like how cool is that you can go get a W12 turbo luxury sedan for
$15,000 and just ball out for a little bit of time.
Yeah, that's all you get.
And like expect like plan your insurance right off from the get go
because you're not getting out of that thing alive.
Yes, insurance fraud.
Can we be honest, Frank?
If you're going to be a responsible W12 owner, just go get the faton.
Harder to find, strangely.
Yeah, and kind of cooler though, let's be honest.
But don't do that.
That's a joke.
Please don't actually.
Don't get a faton.
Don't get a faton.
OK, well, if you came down to it, which one are you getting?
I'm getting a faton, W12.
Oh, man, I'm getting it.
I almost got the W12 off.
Let's see you get the cheapest W12.
OK, well, all was OK.
So that was in W12.
That was in the faton.
That was in the flying spur.
Mm hmm.
That was in the cotton at all.
Correct.
I'm pretty sure that never made it into the Arnaj or the Azure.
Those were all the last bastion of the six and three quarters turbo.
Yeah, I don't.
What else was that motor in?
I don't think it went anywhere else.
Sure, I feel like there's we're missing something.
I never made it into a Rolls product.
I don't think did it.
No, no, I don't think so.
I do not think so.
W12.
I'm going to look it up.
No, I don't think so.
W12.
Oh, OK.
Somebody put one in a golf.
That's cool.
That is frightening.
We were in.
You're not going to tell me, OK, this makes for incredible listening.
I know what this would just say.
If you're going to buy W12, just get the goddamn fate.
And already this, I got a good one for you, dude.
Oh, the eight.
I forgot, it wasn't.
They did put it in the eight.
You're right. You're right.
And wait, they put it in the Toreg.
Allegedly.
Wait.
Well, you could get a V12 TDI Toreg.
I remember that.
That was a V10 TDI Toreg.
And sorry, but it was TDI.
That was weird.
And they did a V12.
They did a V12 Q7 TDI.
But it was a V12.
That's disturbing.
Yeah, that's not it.
That's not a W12.
Yeah, apparently, apparently you can get the W12
in the first generation.
Faten, maybe not here, maybe not, maybe not stateside.
But, you know, and here's the thing.
We all know.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, sorry.
They made 330 that they sold in Saudi Arabia with tracks.
Fair enough.
Yeah.
But yeah, W12 off.
Let's do it.
Let's go.
Let's go.
Here's a car that it really depends on what trim you get
because the early ones of this vehicle
are pretty stout, pretty reliable,
pretty good buys for the first time.
Close Porsche Cayenne.
The early Porsche Cayenne is a good vehicle.
That early Porsche Cayenne S, that little S,
which is actually super fun for Porsche products,
kind of makes it shitty.
I don't know.
There are so many issues.
The very first year, look up like the reliability
of the first year of the Cayenne S.
It's like abysmal.
It's like there's just all these records about it
being like one of the biggest flops ever.
I want to say they were pretty leaky.
Engine failure, like me because of all the problems.
Yeah, yeah.
Engine failure, trans failure.
I can't remember.
There's a whole bunch of like fuel issues.
There's like, like, but which is in stark contrast
to the regular Cayenne.
If you got a base, you know, that person with the S badge,
you know, Porsche guys have their role.
They're going to talk shit like, oh, you got the base model,
blah, blah, blah, those Cayenne, the regular base models
are still going well today.
36
Yeah.
Yep.
36
Good little vehicle.
But those S models, the first year.
I'm talking the very first year.
Only the first year.
I think it's an O4 model year came out.
I know they had, had problems with like,
they had like a coolant pipe that would rupture
and then just like dump 100 percent of the coolant
in like five seconds.
Yep.
That was a big one.
The trans failure was super well renowned.
But these are just the first year.
So it's funny, right?
Like you can look online and look up a Cayenne S
from 2004.
You can get it right now.
Probably six to eight grand.
And then the next year is like 15.
It's just kind of cool how it jumps up like that.
But avoid it.
It's one of those cars.
I know you can get them cheap.
Maybe avoid the one year, but like avoid the rest.
Just like the rest of this list.
It's all it's all cheap, maybe.
Yeah, I just I'm curious.
Like there is an answer somewhere of what car on average
has just the absolute largest percentage of depreciation.
And let's let's say that minimum of 10 years old,
maximum of 25 years old, what would that car be?
It might be one of those Maserati's.
It probably is.
But that's not necessarily like those things.
Might be like a Phantom seven, you know, right?
Those things can exist independently of each other, right?
Like it could have a massive depreciation,
but still be a decent enough car to maintain and drive.
But like a lot of the cars on our list are like absolute money
pits to maintain, right?
Sure. It's kind of what I focused on.
And that's a different animal, right?
Did that work itself into the depreciation factor?
Of course, right?
Like known maintenance costs, failure points and, you know,
reliability will take away a value of a vehicle.
But good Lord, dude, like some of these you just don't win.
I feel like that, Lee.
Oh, you know what?
I thought of it.
I thought of another W12 car.
One I've actually driven an early Bentayga.
Oh, OK, fair enough.
A little early Bentayga.
Now, that is a car that is like you can you can do some heavy
hitting depreciation.
Yeah, you'll take a horrible, horrible, nice interior, though.
Oh, yeah, this one was black on black or is they called it Beluga
on Beluga. That's right.
What was the first year on those?
I don't even know.
But they're like was like 20, 20, 15, some shit like that.
That sounds about right.
Yeah, I'm very fast, like the launch control real deal.
Let me tell you. Yeah, until it does.
I don't I don't want one.
Yeah, I'd rather have the continental or the spur or the feeding.
Yeah, out of this list, the cars we talked about,
what would you if you had to own one?
Which one?
To be a WIMP, dude.
I would either.
God, I would maybe have to take all the punishment that comes with an RS6.
Or maybe live in Land Rover Land and be, you know, LR4
L322. Somewhere in there.
OK, Bangal but I still think might be the single worst possible
automotive purchase anyone can make.
Yeah.
You know, Flying Spur would be kind of I mean,
that would be interesting until it isn't.
Sure. I don't know.
How about you?
Man, Alpina B7 is pretty close to Bangal
but when it comes to like reliability concerns and cost of ownership.
So probably nicer thing, way cooler car, too.
Yeah. So I'm with you.
RS6 is the easy one for me.
And then I think it is LR4 and I just suck it up and do the time and chain guides.
Sure.
And just enjoy it because it's a very like.
Once you fix it's Achilles heel like that, the time and chain guides,
it's a good truck. It's a really good truck.
So yeah.
Those are my two.
But if you if you're not ready, like me
and also if I took it to a fucking shop to get repaired, that's a expensive repair.
It's going to be the same value as the truck, basically.
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, anything really anything on any of these cars is fatal.
Yeah, exactly.
Which is which is why they they are what they are like value wise is because you're not.
You're when you buy the car, you're not buying the car.
You're putting a down payment on its continues existence.
That's all you're doing.
It's you're leasing it.
You just don't the terms aren't fleshed out.
Yeah, you're leasing a car with the the month to month payments are undetermined.
That's really all this is up to and including original MSRP.
Yeah, or just like.
Oh, that airbag control module that like shorted and break the car.
It's unobtainable and because it's an SRS module, nobody will rebuild it.
Yeah, have a nice day.
And then you're like looking for some like bespoke.
Used part that's married to the VIN on a wrecked car.
It's just absolute pant like that's also in the cards here.
So yeah, so advice is of dangerously.
If you buy any one of these cars, just consider yourself the last owner of that car and you'll be OK.
Don't think past you.
Just write you.
Yeah, because if you think you can go into it, you kind of can't go into it
thinking that there's a a actual reasonable exit plan.
No, outside of insurance fraud, which I would argue,
pretty like maybe not reasonable to like bake in insurance fraud.
All right, judgment free zone, my friend.
Yeah, I just, you know, come on.
You can't do.
Yeah, you can't do what like the hoovies of the world do where it's like,
oh, I bought a really cheap and I'm going to put like no money into it.
And like, I'm going to turn up a modest profit at the.
No, you just, even if like the stars align and you pull that off,
like you can't bank on that.
Oh, dude, can you imagine?
Can you imagine what kind of buyers you're going to have to deal with
if you put that shit on Marketplace?
Oh, man, it's going to be a tough one.
That's going to be a tough.
There's no fun conversations there.
I mean, yeah, that kind of ends up just being just just auction it, no reserve.
Let it rip and then it's going to bring what it's going to bring.
And then at that point, you're just like, hey, homie, like send a wire.
I'm like, that's it.
You know, like, you don't, you're not either in it.
Yeah, you're not meeting somebody like not at your house
because you don't want them knowing where you live.
Um, I just, yeah, I just interesting.
Gosh, when we get what should we what what what subscriber count on the
Patreon should we have the 12th challenge, the W12 challenge?
500, like what's a reasonable guy?
That's 12 for W12.
We'll do a Baker's duds.
We'll go 24 because you're going to have a W12 and I'll have it.
That's fair. Yeah.
Um, so, you know, that's that's the plug.
Patreon.com slash APA pop.
Um, this is not a legally binding conversation, by the way.
Any any last parting, parting thoughts?
No, don't buy the listen, if you're going to buy any one of these vehicles,
do it for fun.
Don't do it for the love of the game.
Don't chase the image, man.
Cause trust me, the sad thing is, Frank, is the people that do buy these vehicles
thinking they're getting something that's valuable and luxurious and all that.
And it happens.
That's the saddest thing.
I think more, more than like it's like the LR4 crowd or even some of the
Bentley stuff, like you mentioned, I think people do get lulled into buying that.
And then you're fucking upside down land, right?
I've been meant to street parking my, my mental, you know, um, which you will.
Yeah.
My most sound, um, it'll be street parked in a traveled lane
when it breaks down, but yeah.
Sure.
Yeah.
Good times.
Yes.
Oh boy.
Um, should we, should we play a game?
We should, we should.
Am I, are you quizzing me?
I'm, I'm quizzing upon your neck and chest.
Um, I'm going to find, uh, I'm going to find a subject
while you tell the good people at home what the hell we're up to.
Uh, this is our automotive pre-net quiz game.
Frank is going to pull up a article in advertisement in a magazine
from the period of the 80s, 90s, mid 2000s, all fear game.
He's going to read it omitting anything that gives it away.
I have three guesses to figure out what he's talking about.
These are straight up factual, uh, documents always.
There's no, uh, misleading language or any, uh, no, it's all bullshit really.
And then I will try to guess.
And every time I fail, he can give me a hint, three strikes.
I'm out 10 minutes around the clocks.
I don't sit here and go, um, um, W12s can be found in the following cars.
I hope you come at me with a W12 car, by the way.
Ooh, not a lot of ads for those.
I'm thinking, unfortunately.
Yeah, restrictive about of ads, but I am ready.
Frank, roll that beautiful bean footage.
Okay.
So, um, here's the thing.
I just had like a quick panic thought because I think there's a non-zero
on a W12.
You've been on a W12 car as you were reading that.
I just been on a fucking bentag.
No, um, I think there's a non-zero percent chance that I've actually done
this ad before, um, if only you could check the list that I maintain.
I know I was going to try and log, log into it real quick.
Okay.
Let me do it.
Hold on, hold on.
Where'd it go?
Fuck.
It's not what it's saying.
Is this how the magic space is great.
Um, uh, regale the people with late, late on me, dude.
Just, just shoot it, dude.
Cause at this point, shoot it all over me.
Okay.
Hold on.
I've found the list.
What's the alternative in the way you find another ad?
I've found the list.
Okay.
We're going to go, uh, uh, you know what?
I think we should open up for fair game is the same vehicle.
If it's a different advertisement, I think that's fair.
I found, there's just not enough information here in, in the list.
I think this is a different vehicle.
Okay.
Are you ready?
I'm ready, man.
All right.
Let's do it.
This is a one page advertisement that I may or may not have read in the past.
So I deserve.
We have, we have the, uh, the vehicle in question at the bottom.
We're looking at the driver's front quarter.
I'm just sitting there stationary.
Looks like there's a sunset off to the right hand side of the frame.
Um, and then there's like this looming ominous illustration of the power train,
like imposing over the top of it.
Ooh.
Mm hmm.
Um, it then says blank introduces one of the world's most advanced production
turbos.
Okay.
Blank turbo hold on tight.
Blank is giving you a new shot of adrenaline for blank being the model year.
Mm hmm.
Introducing blank turbo.
The heart of the matter is a 1.8 liter turbocharged overhead cam engine.
This highly advanced turbo system features an onboard computer that
electronically senses and controls all major functions of the turbo fuel is
derived, uh, sorry, fuel is delivered by a multi port fuel injection unit.
The intake chambers, it meets the prep column.
The intake chambers, it meets the pressurized air being blown directly in
from the turbocharger.
That is a weird fucking set.
That's a bad I'm going to try it one more time.
Yeah, let's just so I don't feel like I'm having a stroke.
Put your own commas in there, if you will.
In the intake.
Yeah, there's a missing comma, right?
In the intake.
No, there's not one.
God damn it.
This is the worst sentence in the intake chambers.
It meets the pressurized air being blown directly in from the turbocharger.
Sure.
The result, a very impressive 150 horsepower, 5,600 RPM to the driver.
It means remarkable acceleration, response and efficiency.
Estimated 36 miles per gallon highway, 24 EPA estimated miles per gallon.
All of this power is tied to the road by Blank's standard performance suspension,
special chassis tuning and Goodyear Eagle GT tires on 14 inch high tech turbo cast
aluminum wheels.
The interior includes a full complement of gauges with techometer and turbo boost
indicator, plus fully adjustable front bucket seats, all standard.
Blank, an exhilarating example of Blank innovation in action.
And then there's an asterisk, your mileage may vary, speed, distance, yada, yada, yada.
Those fuel economy estimates are always so good in these 80s, like cars for some reason.
It's like 36 miles per gallon, it never got that.
Actually tested 12 miles a gallon.
Yeah, that's the odd, my friend.
1.8 turbo, 150 ponies.
At 5600 RPM, she's a certified head cam, overhead cam, didn't drop the D in there.
So I'm assuming it's a single overhead cam design.
It just says overhead cam.
What was the first line?
It was a world's most...
Hold on tight, Blank is giving you a new shot of adrenaline for Blank, introducing the Blank.
The heart of the matter is a 1.8 liter triple charge overhead cam engine.
Didn't say rear wheel drive, did it?
Did not specify drive wheels.
Didn't say door count, did it?
It did not.
Did I hear Cooper said it now?
Okay.
Didn't tell you.
We're off to the races.
What had 1.8 turbos?
There's some weird...
I don't know if this is domestic, because I know there were some 1.8 turbo domestics.
It sounds Japanese to me, up the rip.
I'm going to eat some edibles while you're...
Keep the high sustained.
It doesn't even kicked in yet.
Actually, it should be hitting if you started at the absolute beginning.
These edibles ain't shit.
45 minutes later.
What else, dude?
What else do we have to give this car away?
There's not a lot of substance in here, just clearly like your edibles.
1.8 turbos.
1.50, 5600 RPM.
14-inch wheels.
80s.
Could you eagle GTs?
Car of the tires.
What do I have that's Japanese or the 1.8 turbo?
Not Toyota?
Definitely not Mazda.
What does that leave us?
Nissan?
80s Nissan.
It's not like a 240SX, clearly.
What about the older one, the 200SX?
That had a...
That did have a 1.8 turbo.
Are we talking...
I don't know if I pictured a sports car, though.
Didn't even mention pop-up headlights.
I think that was like something you didn't even mention.
It just like...
Had it.
You always mention.
I guess in the 80s, right?
Part of the zeitgeist.
I could be wrong because I'm almost feeling...
Because there was the 1.8 turbo you could get in the Buick Skylark and stuff,
but we just did that a few weeks ago.
So it can't be...
Or the Sunbird, the Punnick Sunbird, I think had a 1.8 turbo.
Can't remember birthdays.
Let's go with the 200SX.
It's got to be that.
Nissan, 200SX, this will be...
1985?
Final answer?
This is not the 1985 200SX, although...
I very, very, very nearly read that ad.
I had it in another window.
When you said that, I just went, oh, and I hit the next tab.
And I'm like, oh yeah, look at that.
Fuck out.
What are the odds of that?
So no.
You've been sharing your screen the whole time.
No, I'm scared.
Yeah, you just like suddenly see all this like nightmare fuel porn that I've been watching.
Was I wrong?
You were wrong.
Like am I not even in the ballpark with the...
The 200SX did have the 1.8 turbo.
It did.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that was at the CA18, I don't know, something like that.
DET, I think.
Okay, help a brother out.
Well, I'll just give you this one.
It was...
It is not a Japanese manufacturer.
Okay.
Okay, 1.8 turbo, 150 horsepower.
Not Japanese.
200SX is a good car.
Those are slept on.
Yeah, I can't find them.
You cannot.
And yeah, 1.8 turbo.
Is it the domestic?
Did I already say the car when I said it can't be this?
We're famous for that.
So let's go that route.
Let's go with something that's front wheel drive.
This is going to be a, God, say, I think I'm at the same ballpark.
1985, maybe 84.
Pontiac, Sunbird GT, final answer.
This is the 1984 Pontiac J2000 Sunbird Turbo.
Yes.
Great car.
They off to J off.
Johnny, great car.
So yeah, so the thing with this one was...
It's funny, they called it the J2000.
I think technically by this point, it was just the 2000.
They dropped the J.
They smoked the J and so it was gone.
So it's just the 2000.
And then I think maybe even the next year, it just became the Sunbird.
And then you had the SE and the GT.
But yes, it's funny because it shows a sedan.
It was available in a sedan and a convertible later.
Later as a convertible.
Which is kind of the one I want.
I kind of want a manual convertible turbo.
What's wild on these, it was like, oh, it's an Iron Duke
with like 90 horsepower or whatever.
And then you got the turbo and it was 150.
So it was like a monster power increase.
And I want to say in period, I want one of these.
Yeah, especially these early ones because they're just sillier.
And I want to say that like, I think this year in 84,
maybe it was 85 when it became the GT.
Where they didn't sell that many.
I want to say they made like a thousand
manuals and a thousand autos or some split like that.
It's a three-speed auto or a five-speed manual.
And if you got the manual,
much like when, if you got a WRX, you got an SCCA
like license when you bought it.
Is that true?
Yes.
Yeah.
In 2002, the first year and maybe 03.
You got like a one-year membership.
Oh, no, I meant, I meant, do you get a license with the Sunbird GT?
Maybe, so with the Sunbird GT, if you got the automatic,
you got an NHRA like one year.
I don't know if it's like a license or that membership or like where.
It's not like you can just suddenly like,
fuck, that's cool.
Run threes without a cage or anything, but like,
and then I think you got an SCCA membership with the manual.
So the manual, you got the SCCA and then NHRA for the auto.
Like that's what you got.
Like when you bought it, which was pretty dope.
How cool would it be to buy one and have that like form still in the like owner's manual or
what about the paper, dude?
You turn it in now.
Like, yeah, I'm finally claiming my one year show up in your mint Sunbird.
Sunbird GT, the paint was faded two years back.
Guy wanted $8,500 and it had so 80.
It had like, what did it have like 110,000 miles?
So it's right in my sweet spot manual in pretty good shape,
but the paint was fucking burnt off of it.
And I was like, dude, I want this car.
I like, I kept telling him like, I really want this car,
but he was like, he's like, I haven't seen what I have listed for five years.
He, and he's right.
You can't find a Sunbird GT turbo manual anywhere.
Like we couldn't work it out.
That thing stayed for sale for one and a half years and then disappeared about six months ago.
Damn.
So I'm looking right now.
They've only ever sold a handful on bring a trailer.
All of them were like the best one was one they sold in 2024,
which is an 89 Sunbird GT turbo convertible.
Yeah, a lot of convertible.
Three speed auto.
And it's, yeah, it's very, and it sold for $6,100.
And it was a 70, 71,000 mile example and it's perfect.
Dude, no, this guy, this guy wouldn't back down from 8,500.
He said firm like five times in the ad and I'm like, okay, this guy's a dipshit.
Same deal.
I think it was his cousin trying to sell a Cavaliers Z24, like a 1988, which I have a weird,
you know me and my old weird GM shit manual blue and silver dual combo.
Got one to 8,500 for that too with like 145,000.
I'm like, this is a fucking $5,000 car, my friend.
But each their own.
You know what we need to do?
We need to do one day, we need to sit down and set up like bring a trailer and cars and bits
alerts specifically for these dog shit cars that nobody else wants.
Yeah.
Because I feel like maybe like once every four months, one of these cars, if we sit down,
we set an alert for like 40 different models, one of them will crop up.
Sure.
And there's a 50, 50 chance that it'll go for money that we would gladly pay for it
because we're the only idiots looking for these things.
Dude, but that old automobile, what was the, the, the really special one that sold them
bring a trailer?
The Achieva for, yeah.
Oh yeah, the X.
Yep.
The S, but it sold for like 7,500.
And that was like the nicest example I've ever seen.
And that's an ultra rare car.
I want to say it sold exactly for 7,500.
I'm trying to look it up right.
Uh, no, 69, 41.
Oh fuck.
92 Achieva at the X.
And it's 69.
With the, with the radial TAs, the white letters out.
Such a good car.
And it was the W41 package car, which is like the high performance one.
66,000 miles.
Absolutely mint condition.
Fuck.
I would daily the bejesus out of this.
It would be so fucking cool.
I'd be so into that car.
Just the W41 package was a $2,500.
I'm looking at the window sticker.
$2,500 upgrade on a $12,700 sticker.
Whoever scored that get like, that's like one of the big scores.
Yeah.
Like at the great car.
Yeah.
Damn.
It's the only Achieva they've ever sold on Brick-N-Trailer.
It's a good one.
I mean, if you're going to, to draw your Achieva line in the sand,
I think you, I guess you go with that one.
We get that international series or the W.
Oh, there's some good.
We need like, we honestly, we need to sit down and then just have like.
They just don't, I look enough, man.
I, they just don't pop.
They don't pop up anywhere.
Like to be honest, these, these performance vary.
That's why I like them, especially the GM ones.
They just, there's something special about them.
Like anything with a quad four.
I'll take an automatic quad four at this point.
And I still don't even find that, right?
Yeah.
And I'll take up Vanilla Grand Prix with a quad four and an automatic and I still can't find it.
I think they didn't pass smog out where we are.
And everywhere else, they rotted away.
I mean, this one was in New Jersey.
That had to be in a garage.
North, Brunswick, New Jersey.
Oh, it's being sold for like a Bridgewater Acura.
It's like from an Acura dealership.
Oh, took that on trade.
That salesman was cool.
And you know, they gave him like $12.
Oh, dude, yeah.
Absolutely nothing.
What the fuck?
Damn.
Yeah.
Damn.
Good, good steal there.
Well, let's transition into hard drug use.
Get you off your eddies over there.
PCP, my friend, Project Car Progress.
Have you turned any wrenches, Frank?
I see a new vehicle in your background.
Yeah.
So a little bit.
Lay it on me.
Okay.
So I did two things today.
First one is I've got a homie, friend of the pod, although he's not been on my homie,
Zach, who him and his might as well be wife are coming in to town.
They live in the greater New Mexico area.
Okay.
And they're coming into town because they're going to do the wine country thing for the weekend.
And I'm like, they let me know like, he let me know like six months ago, like,
hey, I'm going to be coming into town.
Will you have some kind of interesting shipbox I can borrow?
Absolutely.
And so now the time has come.
He comes in on Friday.
We're recording on a Sunday.
And I'm like, oh, God, oh, fuck, I have to make sure like one of my cars are.
So there's a, hey, man, like, do you want to drive the S2000, right?
Like, he's a responsible dude.
I know he's not going to damage the car.
Honestly, I don't drive it enough.
Stretching its legs would be beneficial.
This is a good thing for everyone.
So it's just sure.
So I went to go grab it today and the battery's dead ass flat.
Oh, shit.
I look, it's from, oh, it's from 2021.
Yeah, they're on the bubble.
But like I dreamt it and I let it run for 30 minutes.
And like after 30 minutes of idling, I put my foot on the brake pedal and just the draw
for the brake lights killed the car.
Oh, she did.
Yeah.
This battery is way gone.
So I put a battery in it.
And also the tax expired like a week ago.
Not as bad.
That's that big deal.
But now like new batteries.
So I got to set the monitors.
So, okay, fine.
So I drove it around and set all the monitors.
So it's ready for small now.
So I did that.
I'm also going to go through it just like safety check it.
I mean, it's fine.
Tires are still great.
You know, they're, they're good PS4, whatever, Michelin's PS4S is.
And then fluids are all great.
It's clean, clean-ish.
I got to dust it off, but it's ready to go.
And then I also, you asked earlier about the focus.
Oh yeah.
So I did get those famously as we discussed before.
I couldn't quit stepping on my dick when it came to the valve cover bolts.
I got new valve cover bolts.
I got the two after begging and pleading with a guy on eBay.
I put them in.
Great.
That's a big deal.
So I started it.
The first off battery was very marginal on that, even though it's a new battery,
but it's been, oh wow.
Okay.
Started.
And it didn't quite sound quite right.
Like it sounded like it had a miss.
It wasn't throwing a check engine light.
Say, okay, well, you know, let me, let me poke around some more.
So I poke around some more and, and you know, just okay.
Well, I put plugs in it.
I had the valve cover off, whatever.
So I, you know, plug wires are in the right.
So they're all snugged down.
That's fine.
It wasn't throwing a check engine light for a misfire,
which if I had like a disconnected spark plug,
it would immediately have given me a blinking check engine light.
I didn't have anything.
Now I have to put a scanner on it.
But it's like, okay, what else is on here?
Well, the camshaft position sensor is goes through the valve cover right there on the,
just past the number one cylinder up against where the timing belt is.
At least I think that's what I'm assuming the sensor is.
I actually haven't looked.
So I go, okay, well, I look, well, maybe sure it's plugged all the way in.
So I'll plug it.
And where the pigtail, and this was like 12 seconds before I hopped on the ponder,
where the pigtail plugs into it, I look at it and it's fine.
And then I noticed like, as I pulled it out, like it oil dripped out.
Oh, like engine oil.
Oh, okay.
Okay, so maybe there's like a bad internal seal
and it's wicking some engine oil up into,
you know, it's not into the harness,
but it was like, if it's within the sensor, that's a problem.
And if the sensor is, you know, putting out some implausible signal,
you know, it will usually take a couple of cold starts or something
where the ECUC is a bad signal coming out of this, and then it'll throw a code.
So I'll put a scanner on it, seeing if there's a pending code for
camshaft position sensor, which I think that's what this is.
Yeah.
So the story just keeps on keeping on.
Dude, so the only thing I have like related to that is when I did the tracker plug wires,
and you did, you have, that has coils, right, on the plugs on that vehicle.
No, it's actually plug and wires.
Okay, yeah.
So one of the wires had this like extra part of the rubber boot that interfered with the metallic part
inside the actual plug wire.
And it, I didn't notice I've done, I don't know, 5000000 plug wires in my life.
So I put it all together and then it had this weird miss that I was chasing for a while.
No check-ins and light, because it wasn't quite a full miss,
because it was still making some connectivity through that plug wire.
And when I took them all off and I started looking at something's going on here,
because there's manufacturing defects, right?
There's extra piece of rubber or something.
There was a little piece of rubber that was like fouling against the metal part,
and I just pulled that off, reseeded it.
Perfect.
Might be worth it.
I just reused the plug wires.
These are not new plug wires.
And they're not, I looked because I had, you know,
this was all predicated on me doing the valve covered gasket.
And they're not oily.
There wasn't.
Interesting.
The gasket wasn't failing in that way.
It was on the outside, like onto the exhaust manifold and onto the heat shield.
So, yeah, I don't know, I'll fiddle with it.
If it is this, what I, again, what I'm assuming is a camshaft position sensor,
it might not be.
It might be something else.
I haven't done my homework.
I literally, again, I'd be like, oh, there's oil in the pigtail.
That ain't right.
And then I hold it down to the pod here.
So, that's what I'm working on.
How about you, sir?
That sounds fun.
So, I got this certain Lexus that a good buddy of mine dropped off.
So, I've been, I've been putting some time into that.
The XTER is at its stopping point for our Overland Adventure.
So, more fun with that.
Just some timing chain wine.
That's going to be wonderful.
I should be company on this trip.
But the ES300.
So, ever since I got it from you, we did always notice there was like a bit of idle
fluctuation, a little surgingness, if you will.
I noticed, especially if you use the AC or in certain environments, it would just idle,
like, would change.
Like, and it's very traumatic on that car.
You can notice it because it's such a smooth running car.
It would rev up and rev down.
And I was like, well, vacuum leak, right?
So, I did go over every vacuum line.
And now that I'm getting into the car, I will say there are some issues because they're
old.
It's 30-something-year-old rubber, right?
Sure.
So, that was my first guess.
That's where you want to start with that kind of stuff before you start looking at
sensors like idle air control and ISC and all that.
So, it sat for a few weeks.
I kept it on a tender, all that kind of stuff.
And then I went to start it.
And it was like really hard to start.
And once it started, give it a little gas, it would fall on its face, like instantly
die.
And a check engine light was present.
So, I'm like, okay, we can do something.
This is a 93-paperclip jumper.
Let's pull a code.
And it was a code 22, which is coolant temp sensor.
I'm like, oh, this could be easy because on that car, it's like a 10-minute job.
Is it right at the thermostat housing?
Yeah, it's like, it's got this little neck coming off.
I don't know if it's the thermostat, but there's like this coolant neck coming off
that mode.
That mode is pretty interesting.
They just call it a neck or a throat.
I would call it a throat go if I was to actually detail it out.
But so, replacing that part was pretty easy.
The old one literally shattered apart in my hands when I pulled it apart.
I could pull the sensor apart.
Like, there's a sign.
Diagnostic confirmed.
Yeah, so that's a thing.
So I put the new one in there, fired up, perfect idle.
Nice and smooth, give it gas, perfect revs.
And I'm like, that was it.
That thing, so the sensor had broken off of the plastic part from the body of the sensor.
So that's why we were getting that surge was like the piece actually breaking apart.
Yeah, so you're like a pothole away from being like bricked on the highway.
Not your usual bricked, but I mean like a brick in the road.
I love stuff like that, dude.
I love when you can saw in the sensor was like 20 something dollars or 30 bucks.
It's like, I love it when like a car doesn't run.
Like you can't move a car and you solve it with a cheap part in 15 minutes of time.
Yeah, I love I can do anything.
Talk about cars, things that you can't do anymore, like modern cars.
This is a vintage car luxury, if you will.
But yeah, that was it just by solving that.
I'm glad I went over all the vacuum lines just to make sure first because
you don't want to start throwing parts in there, but in the check engine,
like wasn't on it first because it was an intermittent issue, right?
So sure.
Okay, yeah.
And that check engine like OBD.
So it's like just a few years, right?
Or a couple years.
So just luckily the check engine like popped on.
I'm like, oh, I'm fucking, I'm getting this bad boy.
Get the paperclip out, start doing it and code 22, baby.
So Lexus is doing good things.
More work to be done to that for sure as I dig deeper into it.
But that's me, baby.
I guess we should shut this thing down.
Yeah, let's shut it down before we get shut down.
Because we're that edgy.
We can't be held back.
Yeah, we'll go full info wars.
Tell you what though, if we get so edgy, we get bought out by the Onion.
Oh, that'd be killer.
Yeah, that'd be dope.
I'm into that.
Anyways, thanks for tuning in.
Keep doing this.
We'll catch you here again next week.
So yeah, thanks for doing this whole podcast thing with us.
If you would like to support our podcast, first off, just keep listening or tell people.
The other way is if you want to do more than that, we do a very dumb, silly thing
with regards to a Patreon.
Yes, we have a Patreon.
No, it is not a good value for the user.
That would be you.
But if you want to indulge us and you want to support us in keeping this thing afloat,
we're cheap.
It's like $5 and really all you're doing is buying us cheap beer for our late night
confidential, which is a once a month thing for Patreon members.
So check that out.
We drink terrible liquids and we have unhinged conversations.
Otherwise, yeah, we'll see you here again.
If you want to stalk me digitally beyond this, you shouldn't.
But if you do at the photographer's garage on the things.
How about you, Chad Wick?
Yeah, you can find me on the YouTubes, Auto Obscure Garage.
You can rescue restorations, reviews, all that stuff.
Some Lexus ES300 content coming soon.
So prepare yourselves.
Oh, I don't know.
I edge yourself in preparation.
It's worth edge into that car.
But yeah.
All right, guys, we'll catch you in a week.
Yes, it's been great.
Bye.
I guess.
About this episode
Luxury-car “disaster class” ownership gets dissected through buyer psychology, depreciation math, and very specific failure stories. The hosts argue that aspirational cars look great new, but warranty-era neglect and real-world shop time expose problems. They roast examples like the E65 BMW 7 Series, Maserati Ghibli/Quattroporte, and early Alpina/BMW V8 setups, then broaden into Land Rover timing-chain and air-suspension headaches. The episode keeps circling back to a simple rule: treat these purchases like long-term commitments, not image flips.
There are some great buys out there for lightly used super luxury cars out there, but is buying a wildly depreciated Q-Ship from yesteryear a good idea, or a receipt for disaster? The fellas sit down and pick out some of the worst examples available on the market today.
