0:00
/
0:00
Field Report: Too much BOOST for your engine block? This MIGHT be a solution.
Field Report: Too much BOOST for your engine block? This MIGHT be a solution.
0:00
0:00
0:00
0:00
About this episode
Power and boost levels can overwhelm factory alloy blocks, leading to serious issues like sleeve splitting. John from Dart and Sleeves discusses sleeving technology as a solution, enhancing block rigidity and preventing head gasket failures in high-boost applications. The conversation delves into the challenges of sleeve installation, including the common issue of sleeves dropping, which can compromise engine integrity. John emphasizes the importance of precision machining and the role of CNC equipment in achieving reliable results, while also providing resources for finding skilled machine shops.
Topics:
sleeving technology
engine block rigidity
high boost applications
sleeve dropping
precision machining
CNC equipment
head gasket failures
aftermarket solutions
The factory design of engine blocks did not anticipate the extreme boost pressures we see today, often struggling to even handle 15 psi let alone 100 psi or more which many are pushing down the drag strip. Fortunately, there are aftermarket modifications available that allow us to push the limits without the risk of splitting our engine blocks in half.
Use ‘PODCAST75’ for $75 off your first HPA course here: https://hpcdmy.co/hpa-tuned-in
Modern engine builds now achieve power levels that were unimaginable not long ago, especially in small 4-cylinder applications, with boost pressures exceeding 100 psi. Products like Darton Sleeves have turned this once-unbelievable potential into reality.
John Catapang from @DartonSleeves1 answers our questions regarding the limitations of OEM sleeves and how their MID sleeves and improved fitment have addressed these issues. He also discusses the importance of precision machining and selecting a knowledgeable company, as a bad one certainly won't foot the bill for replacing your entire engine if they overpromise and underdeliver. Make sure to do your due diligence and choose a reputable company capable of delivering repeatable results.
Select text to request an explanation
As power and boost levels spiral out of control.
This can be too much for some factory alloy blocks and this results in a range of problems right up to the point where the sleeves can actually split.
We're here with John from Dart and Sleeves to talk a little bit about sleeving technology.
Welcome to High Performance Academies' tuned in field report podcast series.
In these special midweek episodes, we look back through our archives to find the best conversations we've had through years worth of attending the best automotive events across the globe.
We've pulled the audio from these tech filled interviews with some of the industry's most well known figures and presented it in podcast format for you to enjoy as a quick hit of insider knowledge.
Now for a start with a high level view what is a sleeve and how does it fix that particular problem that I've just described?
Sleeving actually adds more rigidity and more strength and more structure to the blocks themselves.
A lot of times with the aluminum blocks and stuff they are better materials now than they were before, but they're still weak in the cylinder areas and stuff to where that's the sleeve involved.
It makes the block a lot stronger, especially more than with the stock application intended it to be when they were first originally made them.
So the other element here is a lot of these alloy blocks.
The way that they are cast is that they are what we refer to as open deck, which in a nutshell means that the existing sleeves essentially aren't linked or connected to the outside of the block, and this can result in problems like the sleeves tending to flex and move around and cause head gasket failures at high boost levels.
So what is the solution in the aftermarket with a sleeve to fix that particular?
element.
The first thing we do is we actually make where we call our MID sleeve.
It's actually a lot thicker and creates an actual removable option and a closed deck option for the sleeve.
So what we're doing is we're eliminating the stock freestanding wall and the casting and replacing it with a ductile iron sleeve.
So what that does is actually same thing and makes the block more rigid and then actually closes and gives the block complete support up at the top.
So you don't have that problem.
When there are high boost applications where you got a lot of sidewall load, where we have what we call sleeve walk with the open deck configuration, that fixes that and stuff and closes everything off and gives added support to the top.
So you don't have that problem stuff with any movement.
So you don't have that head gasket issue in the long run.
Now, one of the common problems we hear with slaving in the aftermarket and this is not just for the Darden brand, it's every sleeve out there is that it seems to be a bit of a lottery as to whether or not you're going to suffer from a sleeve dropping once the engine is assembled and it's run for the first time and it's heat or heat cycled, I should say Now, before we get into what causes that, can you expand on what I'm actually meaning, what that term a sleeve dropping actually refers to Generally, what that
is, is when the sleeves actually are installed.
Once they're ran, the sleeves either settle and they'll actually sink below the deck surface, which essentially that causes you to lose head gasket seal.
So you'll have generally a response to have a flush deck.
Once the sleeve sinks it moves down below that deck, so then essentially losing all the embossment that's around the compression area loses complete seal.
So then you actually get leaking into the cylinder itself because you just there's no seal for head gasket anymore due to the sleeve sinking below the deck surface.
We're only talking potentially a few thousandths of an inch here.
That's not a lot of movement that's required to cause this problem, correct.
Correct.
You're looking like maybe 3000, or make a few any type of seal, because once that embossment moves away from that surface, then you're going to get water goes where it's going to go, especially so it's going to seep 1000, 2000.
It's going to create some type of leakage or even compression out and stuff into the cooling system, depends.
You know what kind of power levels you're looking at.
Okay, so this is a problem that we hear a lot about.
What is causing it?
What is the problem that's actually resulting in these sleeves dropping?
If you look at the sleeve.
It's a solid piece of metal.
There's no moving parts to it.
So generally it's a process problem.
When we actually machine blocks you look at the sleeve.
You measure the register where the sleeve is actually supposed to sit.
When you go to machine the block you generally recommend doing that, say, 5000 shy.
So what happens is once you put the sleeve in, you measure the sleeve, measure the block, see where your register depth source to be.
Say you do it 5000 shy.
Once you put that sleeve in, once it's seating up from that 5000, if you're using locked air or epoxy or wherever trying to seal the block, once that's in you see that the sleeves in that difference.
Then you're able to know the block is complete, the sleeve seated, and you can flush, deck that block and stuff without having any problems, because it's primarily not having the sleeve seated in the first place.
And that sounds, on face value, to be relatively straightforward, doesn't seem like rocket science.
Why are there so many problems in the aftermarket with the machine shops installing these sleeves?
Is there a lack of skill, a lack of reading the instructions, or is it the equipment they have access to?
Sometimes it's equipment.
I mean you look at CNC's now they've come a very long way.
I mean there's still guys out there a lot of workshops still running boring bars and stuff and you're not able to hold the tolerances and stuff that you should be doing with like a CNC I mean they're able to do, especially when you're doing sleeving there's we're running on like half a thousand tolerances on a lot of this stuff You're doing this with like a boring bar.
It's even hard to maintain bore centers without having, say, digital and stuff.
To be able to maintain all that and stuff With having everything within half to one thousand tolerances a lot of machinery you're not able to do that unless you're using a precise CNC machine.
So would you say on that basis then, really CNC equipment is a requirement or is old-fashioned equipment with a really skilled operator able to do the job?
No, cnc I mean, it's the future and there's a lot of things you can do.
Some of our sleazer they're really in-depth cutting and stuff machining.
You can't do an interpolated cut with a boring bar and stuff.
A lot of things you have to, especially the way cup blocks are casted.
There's no just machining straight holes.
Some of them you got to avoid stuff.
Some of them water jackets, you have to avoid cutting certain depths.
You got to be able to call it multi-diameters and stuff.
And those things are difficult to do unless you have a CNC machine.
Do you want to take your car knowledge game to the next level.
Join us in the next free lesson at hpacademycom.
Slash free and start developing your own skills today.
Okay, another question I've got is that cutting or removing the material from the alloy block, obviously it generates heat and when we look at some of these MYD sleeve installations there's a huge amount of material.
Basically you're machining the entire center out of these blocks which is going to generate heat.
Does this need to be accounted for?
Because obviously the aluminum material of the block is going to expand as it gets hot with that the friction.
So do we need to factor this in when the final cuts are being done, or is it not an issue?
Well, we do because, like I said, we're holding tighter tolerances when it comes to doing our sleeves.
So a lot of the machines out there there's two types of machines.
You have the regular open machines and then you have flood coolant machines.
Usually when you have a flood coolant machine you're able to actually hold the tolerances better because you're able to control temperature so you can get, as say, aggressive when you're not doing flood coolant, you're sitting there.
You can't just hog out a block and one from a machine pass and be able to take out enough material to put it in sleeve.
But unless you're running flood coolant, you got to take smaller cuts so you don't overheat that block and not cause distortion.
So having a flood cooling machine actually helps because you're keeping that range of temperature at a more controlled level and you're about actually take out more material at once.
Makes sense In terms of getting a customer aligned with a machine shop that Darden are comfortable with, know that they can do the job and deliver that customer really good results.
Do you have a resource to help customers link up with those machine shops all around the country or all around the world?
Oh yeah, we do.
On our website.
We have, like our distribution list and it does give an idea of like the best shops that we deal with.
And then we also have recommendations to because there are a lot of good shops that can do the machining and we give people that option.
You don't have to just go to us.
There are a lot of good machine shops that we will refer people to and stuff, especially depending on what area they're living in.
All right, perfect.
It's good to sort of get a little bit more understanding around the sleeve dropping and hopefully our listeners can now understand that it's not a guaranteed that you're going to have these problems.
Using the right machine shop can can avoid that pain, and people want to find out more about your specific products and sleeves how they best to do so, john.
Oh, you can go to our website wwwdartonsleevescom, or find us on Facebook, instagram and Twitter.
Thanks for your time, no problem thank you.
If you enjoyed this podcast, please feel free to leave a review on whatever platform you've chosen to listen to it on.
It goes a long way to help us getting the word out there.
All these conversations, and much more, are also available in full on our High Performance Academy YouTube channel, so make sure you subscribe.
It's a one stop shop when it comes to going faster, stop in quicker and cornering better.
Request an explanation for:
Request an Explanation
Heard something you'd like explained? We'll add it to this episode.
Sign in to request explanations for terms you heard.
Want to learn more?
Browse our glossary for plain-English explanations of automotive terms, jargon, and concepts.