Final F1 predictions before Abu Dhabi | The Car Podcast #64

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Hello and welcome to the car podcast

with Chris Harris and his international friends.

I find myself in Africa,

Neil Clifford finds himself in New York,

Manish is in Camden, I think,

and Chris is probably somewhere in Hertfordshire,

I would suggest.

So, we're all over the place,

but I want to thank my lovely friends

for finding the time to get onto this podcast

because it's not easy

and it's about 4 a.m. where nearly.

So, if you looked a bit bleary-eyed,

just wished for coffee and it felt better.

This is episode 64.

So, we're going to start with...

We've got to start with the Formula One, haven't we?

We've got to start with the Formula One.

I mean,

what in the name

of Ron Dennis' undergusset

was going on on Sunday?

Manish,

we'll stop you after 10 minutes, alright?

Can I go last?

Okay, Manish is going last.

I've never ever heard that before.

This is the weirdest situation

I've ever come across.

Manish has not taken the...

What was I going to pass it to?

Denim rules, denim rules.

I'm going to move it to Chris Cooper.

I feel a bit sorry for McLaren.

Actually,

I do.

There are some really decent people there

trying to do the right thing

and the world is having to go at them right now

for how could you've made this mistake?

Stupid, stupid people.

And I sort of feel a bit sorry for them

because there was a...

I mean, let's break it down.

There's the...

Is this papaya rules fairness?

Getting in the way.

And I'll put my hand, I hope,

to say when I first heard about papaya rules,

I thought...

That sounds a bit silly.

That sounds like corporate gobbledygook.

I see far too much of that in my day job.

If it's simple, just write it down.

And there was a film, an interview,

quite recently,

where I think

Zach and Andrea were interviewed

by Sky Sports or somebody

to say we'd rather max win

than do be unfair to one of Oscar and Lando.

And our immediate reaction was

that's the maddest thing we've ever heard.

But having now watched that film,

I sort of think I can see what they're trying to say,

which is that

rightly or wrongly, they have a set of values

about how they want to run their team.

It's sporting.

We're going to try and give everyone equal opportunities,

both the drivers, blah, blah, blah.

After that, we will get what we get.

We might win, we might not win,

but at least we can all sleep at night.

And I sort of think they've been hung by that now

a bit unfairly,

because I think what happened on Sunday

where

the one scenario you didn't want to happen

from a spectator point of view,

which was in a 57 lap race

where you can't use your tires

to more than 25 laps

because the proletars are so shit.

After seven laps, there was a thing

and everybody stopped.

I just think they got it wrong and they clearly said

after we got it wrong,

we thought we'd have more opportunities if we stayed out.

They just made a mistake.

I mean, it's really easy for us to sit here

outside of that.

The pressure they're under,

first driver's championship,

it would be since 2008.

All the pressure, all the spot,

all the years of rebuilding the firm

and all those kind of things.

So my first observation about Sunday,

when it did look like

and I can absolutely see why Oscar

was really, really upset and pissed off

because he should have won if they just pitted.

But they thought that in the right thing

and I have a lot,

I have a lot of sympathy for that.

I think Jesus Christ,

they could have,

you could have run that 500 times more

and 400 times they could have been right.

Who knows?

It's just life.

It's not a conspiracy.

It's not a plot.

They're not after trying to do in Oscar.

It's just life

and I really, really felt for them

and I sent a piers chief

or I sent him a little text on Monday saying

I really felt for you guys yesterday.

You need trying to do the right thing in the right way

and whatever.

So I know it's boring

but I don't think there was a conspiracy

of fairness or unfairness against Oscar.

I don't think they were hamstrung by all God

or if we pick one of them now it's going to be.

I genuinely thought they're doing the right thing

for the, you know,

for the to win the race.

It just didn't work.

That's why I stopped.

But anyway, over to the others.

Okay, I'll um.

A lot of that.

I can digest

but I maybe I reveal myself to be a bit of a hard nose bastard here.

I don't believe the last statement there

because I don't believe they did them.

I don't believe they did their best to win the race.

I think they did their best.

This is where they came undone.

They did their best to apply their fairness

in that first round of pit stops.

They were terrified that if they stopped on lap seven

they'd have to stack their drivers

and Lando would have been really harshly treated

because he'd have had to wait

and he'd have been posted back out

a long way behind.

So I think Papaya rules

already was influencing what they could do at that time.

So the whole fairness thing is on paper brilliant

but it's one of those things I've observed all year

where it just proves that what is the right thing to do

doesn't always necessarily get you outcomes.

So you think your interpretation, your gut tells you

that at the moment Halkenberg and Gansley had their little whoopsy

their first reaction was oh shit we're stuck here.

Yeah I think I read the person that I think we all

we probably refer to in these quite complicated situations

is Mark Hughes in the race.

I think you know he really is he's the Oracle

and reading what he wrote about he's fair minded as well.

He really he really emphasise that point.

I suppose first of all we have to say

we now know that in any one of these situations

we have to make a very quick strategic call.

The worst place to be is leading the race will be one and two

because everyone can react to what you do.

What you do don't do.

I know so I really feel from McLaren in that position

like I felt for Mercedes at Abu Dhabi in 2021.

You know if you're leading the race

you're automatically in a very tricky situation at that point.

But so I think they were protecting him.

What I find really strange is that Papaya rules

I think has a shelf life for a certain part of the season

but then probably needs to be parked for hard nose bastard rules

when you get towards the end.

It's when you try to fly across the season.

So I think I suppose if you think back to the past

which isn't always helpful.

I just think you'd reach once once it became

mathematically possible for one of their drivers

to secure the championship during that race.

I think you probably have to prioritize him

because that's what you exist for.

Can I just test that?

Let's say in Abu Dhabi

we're in the last 10 laps of the race

and the race order is exactly the same

as it was in Qatar on Sunday.

I max is leading.

Oscar's second signs

or somebody's third and Landau is fourth.

Do you think the papaya rules

as you interpret them

would prevent them from saying to Oscar

Oscar letting past?

I'm answering a slightly different scenario

in that one that's just that's within a race

and that's what I call team orders

and then a race that's a slightly different scenario.

I'm talking about agree.

Okay, that's fine.

They've gone to a race this weekend

with with the mathematical possibility

of only one of their drivers

winning the World Championship that weekend.

Yeah, if I was in their position

I'd say take that it's a bit like

you know playing who wants to be millionaire

I would bank it.

I'd say look it's all very well

playing papaya rules

but if we let Landau win

if Landau can win this race

then everyone then we win as a team

and the World Drivers Championships

you know is the one to win.

So that's the way I don't understand

but they're you know they're racing drivers

and can you imagine if Oscar was asked

to help his teammates at that point

it's incredibly difficult.

It's so complicated

but suppose all I'm seeing is a confirmation

that if you try and do the right thing

you upset you end up upsetting everyone

and maybe you end up

not achieving what you could achieve

this seems to be

I there's a great sense of unfairness

which is not a word I normally apply to Formula One

because I think it's so cutthroat

but I certainly it just looked like

it was a perfect storm

not entirely their own making

it was very unfortunate

again Mark Hughes pointed out statistically

lap 7 was the worst possible lap

for all this to unravel wasn't it really

I thought

and I really do want them to win

and Landau's fab I really

I think they're great

but good Lord

he just looked just look like a bit of a cock up

could we do any better?

No, of course not

but I just thought it was odd

they'd gone to this race

one of their drivers could have won

and he didn't

it's not often that happens

Neil, what do you think?

Well I said last week that

if Landau doesn't win

it's a fix

and I'm standing by that

stirring in contraria

or do you generally believe that?

Me?

Me do a thing like that

Me?

Look, I didn't watch it

I was in a plane

on the way to Bloody Canada

You missed absolutely fuck all

apart from all we're talking about

which I'm really really annoyed

I know my lovely wife was texting me

I was trying to get the Bloody Wi-Fi

on the plane

it wouldn't work

you know what I mean

it was all like a disaster

and then my plane was diverted to somewhere else

because the plane went wrong

I sort of miss in a way

the bastards in Formula One

if this was a Schumacher era

or a Senera era

wouldn't one of them just smash the other one off

to win the world championship

but I miss a bit of that

I miss this sort of

oh we've all got to be fair

and it's all got to be nice

what would Ron Dennis do?

He would have just had a word in Lando's ear

and said

if you can smash max off

you know just

let's just win it tonight

whatever we've got to do

even if we've got to be bastards

Is there a Bernie button?

I think

the last one

it's all

like obviously

it's brilliant

and Lando will still win by the way

I'm still feeling very confident

that this is all sort of

slightly set up

and it's all

clearly it isn't a fix

but I think it's

I mean you don't need to make a Formula One movie do you?

You don't need to make things

you don't need to make things up

it's much better in real life isn't it?

I mean it's incredible

and even talking to Americans last night

they're hooked on the whole thing

so the viewership

or whatever you call it

the watches on Sunday

it's going to be massive

I'm sure there's a lot of money

going to be made by lots of people

because it's gone to the last race

I know Manish is there

so he's going to

you know we're going to have a live commentary almost

from Manish and Abu Dhabi

I really really think Lando will still do it

but Christ Almighty

it's going to be good on Sunday

and

good luck

that's why I have more orange

this morning at 4 a.m.

we all need Lando to bloody win this don't we really?

if we're British people

we're not all British people

you're a secret Dutch supporter

if Lando does win

this is really freakish

Lando does win

the last two British world champions

will have come from

a very small corridor in Somerset

I mean they're from literally about 4 miles apart

that is amazing

there must be something in the water

sort of between Froome and Glastonbury

extraordinary really

right Manish come on

the floor's yours

okay

I really really

massively agree with

what Mr. Coopies had to say

no and and you Neil

and you

Chris Harris

but I

who is the best driver

in Formula One

right now

by a considerable margin

who is it?

no question

right Max Wischlach

Max Verstappen

not that

Max Verstappen has been

outstanding

all season

his car's a pile of tripe

on a Friday

and on Sunday

he's

he's up there

you know

you know no one

just like Senna

you know no one could extract

more from that car

that's the end of it

Oscar

right now is not as good as Max

Lando

right now is not as good as Max

Lando is much later in his development curve

I would say you know

of the two

the one who's got possibly

the more potential to catch him

maybe is Oscar

maybe

I don't know

so

you have two drivers

there are two philosophies

in Formula One

you have a number one driver

and you have a number two driver

or you have equal

number one drivers

and I think

certainly the British teams

Williams and McLaren

have gone down

that latter path

much more

if they've got their hands on two

really good drivers

they first of all

they believe

that that is how a team develops

you don't get into a position

where it's mathematically possible

for one to win

in one particular race

you let them race

until it's mathematically impossible

for one of them to win

this is what Keke Rosberg

did with Alan Prost

back in 1986

when Prost won his second

world championship

Keke Robberg

with a teammate

and Keke

said right at the end

the only thing I've been asked now

it's mathematically impossible

for me to win the title

is would I give the spare car

to Alan

okay

and those guys were selfish

they knew what they were doing

all I would say is that

the McLaren method

whether you

think it's right or wrong

whether you think papayas right or wrong

this team was basically

in the doldrums until 2023

they turned it around

using

these rules

yes last year they won the constructors

this year they won it by a very long way

Max that that Red Bull

is a very very very quick car

you know they've unlocked something

they've unlocked something

lots of theories as to what it is

but Max has been hyper competitive

since August

Oscar has just fallen off

we've counted the number of mistakes he's made

he's gone off on first laps

he's marked up qualifying

you know they've been

50,000 squillion theories

as to what is the underlying thing with Oscar

Lando has made

so many mistakes

it's untrue in the middle of the season

this race was a blanche for him

you know

he didn't qualify on pole position

he should have done

yet he had nothing to lose

by hanging it out there in the first corner

and bouncing Max out of the race

but he didn't

he tucked in third

so you're in a situation

not when your drivers are one and two

and you're going to stack them

your drivers are one in three

a real conspiracy theorist would say

that by not coming in

they massively favoured Lando

if you were really into your conspiracy theories

because Lando would have come out seventh or something

actually what they were doing was they were

he

I think the reason why he didn't bounce Max off

is because he is keeping one eye

on Oscar

because things are that competitive

if those two had gone off

and Oscar got 25 points

the championship would look much worse

for Lando

I think

you know McLaren

I think things like papaya rules

this is a philosophy

it's not actually a bunch of explicit rules

and a philosophy

has got to last more than one race

one corner one season

this is how they go racing

last year delivered them a Constructors Championship

this year it's done the same thing

it might not

but let's just say Max does win

go back to what Andrea and Zach have said

who is by far the best driver this year

you know both Oscar and Lando can cry

into their porridge

all winter if they don't win

because they have the best car

it won the championship seven races ago

so if you want to talk about Senna

Michael Schumacher

and Alan Prostitus best

they would have won it by now

Prost would have won it ages ago

Shut up

Exactly

but you see the point I'm trying to make is

I think that you

you know the team is trying to stay coherent as a team

the truth is the team have made mistakes

you know last Grand Prix

obviously there was a ride height error

I mean it might have been one micron

ok but the fact is you know rules are rules

this week

as Chris said

you couldn't have scripted it better

the accident happened

on lap 11

everyone would have just had to stop once maybe they're

you know their their decision would have been genius

it stops on the exact lap

when the leaders

when the leaders have to make an instant choice

who out of the lab knows

where's the burning buttons working nicely

that's the burning button

so if look at look just if you look at where

Max is in this

he's the one playing catch up

he's the one with nothing to lose

he's the one who can always make a gamble

because five races ago is a hundred and five hundred and

four points behind

no but but I don't like to interrupt

but it that everyone else

I think Max didn't gamble

he just did what was logical

and I'm not but I'm at the point

I want to just reiterate that point

I think I do think and I read that mark

he's asked for it's very interesting that

I read it

it's difficult not to assume that the reason they

they said we're not going to stop is that

we will have to favor one of the drivers

if we if we stop now

I mean we we don't know that

I think it's a very very interesting

supposition we can easily believe it might be the case

and we don't know my gut

it's interesting where we have different takes

and this is why it's conversations interesting because

my I sort of think

that they just made a mistake thinking

hang on we'll retain flexibility

could be another safety car it's only lap 7

if we pick now we're committing ourselves to 2

25 laps 10th which is why the rest of the race

was dog shit boring

and awful advert for everyone worse than monaco

but I you know

that's it set it up wonderfully

for this coming Sunday

totally I think the only thing you can say Chris

and where Mark I think really had the big point

I agree with

Mr. Cooper I think that

it was a split second decision

McLaren got it very wrong

you can see last week

there was only one team which ran into right high problems

it was only McLaren

you know the other eight people who scored points

didn't have a problem

at all so

just flipping around the only thing I think

that could have been done differently

and where I think you can say oh yeah papaya rules

are an issue is why they didn't split

the strategy

why they didn't bring Oscar in and leave

Lando out

that would have been a more interesting because he was in third

the fact is he started second

and he was in third

that's the only thing you can say but we weren't there

go on

no I'm looking at Neil having his espresso in his hotel room

sorry just looks

looks like

it came up

espresso coffee sorry managed carry on

no it's like

I think this is a philosophy

that is going to stand the test of time because it's going to keep

to very very good drivers

in a team

I think that you you've got to make a philosophical

decision and then you've got to manage

the decision that you've made you can have a very very quick

one and a pretty quick supportive driver

or you can have two quick drivers and if you've got

two quick drivers that's not about one

season I think they're both young

you know this could be the McLaren team for the next five

years they could win the next five they could lose the next

five

but the point is that

if you look at it as a measure of success

yeah the I the only

thing I would say is that you could turn around and say it

this late stage in the season

when you've got a monster like Max coming after you

should they put their eggs into one basket

but you can argue them they should have done it straight

after summer when Oscar was way ahead

that's I sort of I thought I thought I sort of think

that is the case you know if you've got

arguably the most talented driver ever in Formula One

coming after you who has a freakish ability to

yeah to come after you

I suppose I can I can I leave as a brilliantly summarized

manager I agree with an awful lot of it and I

I echo Chris in your sympathy for for McLaren

can I can I end with a question

if you have decided to adopt a philosophy and you're

adhering to that and you're being disciplined

again in the face of an awful lot of criticism and also

probably an awful lot of evidence the fact that you might

you should try and do something differently

which is also what's what kills many great philosophies

is that people don't stick them out don't they

exactly

yeah if you've started a philosophy and you sit

and you you win as a team you lose as a team

every other glib phrase that Michael Schumacher

might have said in the mid 90s

why was it at the end of this race that Andrea

and Zach look so frazzled

they didn't they didn't look like people that had said

do you know what we've accepted that this might be an

outcome from our philosophy therefore we accept it

they looked really frazzled

and I don't think you just say because they made

a bad strategy call

they look like they there was an existential issue

with what with with their strategy

the chances are that they were going to close off

the championship at this race and they didn't do it

and that was it was a simple reaction to that

they'll sit down and they'll examine and they'll

fine tune the philosophy and it may well be

that you know next year with three races to go

if somebody's got the mathematical chance of

closing it out do you both agree

that you will fully back the other driver might

well be that but this is the first time

they have had an opportunity

to win a world championship genuine you can say

they sorted it last year because they sort of came back

a red bull sort of came back after that I'm just saying that

just flipping around

look at if you look at teams like red bull

they're going to replace sonoda with haja next year

are we absolutely sure haja is going to do so much better

a job than sonoda

than lawson

than anyone else who's gone up yet you you know

they are they're going to build that car around max

that is what they're going to do

ok now if max leaves to go off to astin martin

or ferrari or whatever

are they going to be a one car team

are they going to lose for the next decade

because I think part of papaya rules are all about longevity

they're about continuity and I think that you know drivers

for formula one now when you win

you lose aerodynamic time the following year

it's not the formula one of whatever there is a cost cap

you know you talked about oh well school this is a bit like

a school price thing where no one can win

that is formula one is now lava lamp

if ferrari want to spend 2 billion on a car

they're not allowed to go on

can I just answer that point about favoring one driver

now I'm not you're a better status than me

but surely it's quite obvious that teams that have favoured

one dominant driver have won far more championships

in the last 15-20 years than those that haven't

so let's look at ferrari who favoured one driver

they haven't won a sausage since 2008

compared to Schumacher

look at Lewis, look at Vettel, look at Max

I mean it is pretty statistically obvious isn't it

when they have a completely dominant car

and one absolute number one driver

maybe they do for a bit but Mercedes haven't won a beam

in four years either

I think the bottom line is probably the stats

there probably isn't a huge amount in it in the modern world

you go through these fallow periods

and you go through these periods of great harvest

I think that they are thinking about the team

in a big and round and logical way

and I do agree with you that Formula One

perhaps shouldn't be kind of after you or after you

but look at the drivers they've had

the drivers have made at least as many mistakes

as the team has

maybe maybe more

what would Rod Dennis have done?

bollocked everybody

I mean he bollocked Oscar from some

he might have won it, he'd have won it though

wouldn't he Sunday

he didn't win for a very long time when he was back

and he made a pretty bad bet

I think with changing his engine supplier

when he did

so we're all fallible

and we all have our periods

that's right

where we're you know

I will say they have absolutely

and I'm going to cut it off after this

because I'm the only thing I have control over

with these people who are more aerodite

and cleverer than me is that I can say

we're moving it on

but I will say this

thank you McLaren for making this end of season

incredibly nail biting

and interesting

and you've kept us engaged

I mean frankly

Formula One should be giving you another

50 million dollars

towards your

pin funds the next year

because you've kept us all engaged

and in terms of advertising

and all the exposure

and the pressure

you know

it is really lovely

to open up your Times app

and see a Formula One story

as a lead story

and not bloody football

so it's great

right I'm going to move it on

and thank you very much for your contributions

Neil Clifford is on his first espresso

will keep you go

updated on his espresso

consumption

I suspect he'll be consuming

during the next 40 minutes

driving etiquette

good news stories

right let me just

I'm going to start this one

because I'm in Kenya at the moment

and I've been out driving on the road today

I went in a taxi

I sort of a hired car this morning

and then I've been out in a rat

and I've been passenger in a rally car

on the road as well

do you know what

what a lovely bunch of people to drive with

it's Africa

it's chaos

but it's a lovely chaos

and there's

and people have patience

and people assume

that the vehicles around them

might do something completely irrational

and that means there's a natural space

and calmness to what's going on

and there's also

the always the odd chance

to the chicken

or a goat

or something's going to run out in front of you

so you give it space

what a stress-free

place to drive

and not everyone's not sort of bowing

and being overtly kind

but if you make a bit of a balls up

everyone just sort of

gets on with life

Honestly, good Lord

can we learn from something from the way they drive over here

it's just

it's

I'll give you the word

it's courteous

right

I think Chris Cooper

posed this one

so I'm going to pass it over to him

I agree with all of that

and I thought about this subject

after

two things really

one

the day I had on Saturday

this weekend just gone

where I had to drive

a very very large trailer

that was sort of wide enough

it's at the legal limit

so you can't really see down

and if you don't put those

big ear window

mirror extensions on

it's quite hard to see

so

you kind of got to

you kind of got to work with everybody else

so long times

actually probably a year or so

maybe two years

since I've done a lot of driving with a trailer

because with a trailer

you can travel at 60 miles an hour

on a motorway

50 miles an hour

on a single carriageway road

who's just done a speed awareness course recently

so you can't

you have to overtake stuff on the motorway

you can't just sit in the inside lane

lane one

to use a technical term

so you have to put your little winker on

and look in that mirror

and I was

bold over

with happiness

and

goodwill and a sense of

courtesy that the number of people

in the middle lane lane 2

coming up behind me

who saw the little winker go on

so

reminded me and

reassured me yes

I did plug the light thing in

so that the light bottle trailer is working

he's not done that before

everybody as soon as they could

moved out of the way

and let me

overtake into lane 2

they went into lane 3

let me put

almost without exception

whole way down the M4 to the west

and then back again

and as they went past

this is the important bit

I reciprocate I just raised my hand

in the window

sort of just raised it all thumbs up

just to say thank you for the courtesy

I didn't indicate and pull out and they had to move

I indicated waited

and people moved and then I

moved into lane 2

and as I gave them the thumbs up

almost all of them when they went past

gave a little hand raised a hand as it went past or

dinked their little hazard switches

and I thought

that was a wonderful example

in these tough and difficult

stressful times of

global conflict and

economic strife and

political turmoil and so forth

that actually

and this is always been true

we the people

can make a difference

and the car as ever

is our literally our vehicle to do this by

whether it's in Kenya

through courtesy and patience

or in the UK or wherever it is

but and I thought my little example

my little lesson of pulling that trailer

made me think I felt

happy

and content with my fellow road users

because of the

the etiquette

and the courtesy of how we shared the road together

it was lovely

it's a lovely story heartwarming belly warming

I just want to just make sure just stress test one thing

that you do know that this is not a wave don't you

yeah

I did see some of that

in in response do you think

do you think they meant something else

Chris has made a very

another topic of conversation which is

when someone offers you

what you think is a very pleasant greeting

and as you reciprocate the greeting you realize

they're actually not being quite so polite

but you're committed to being polite in response

I I don't

what happens quite a lot

you know when you're like

hello

what do you

when you think

that is a topic

ok

so

nil Clifford

I was

struggling for good news this morning at 345 a.m.

unsurprisingly

but then I then I then I thought

I was reading yesterday

actually my favorite current my current favorite journalist

is Matt Pryor

anyone just reads Matt Pryor

and listen to their podcast actually the auto car podcast

is also bloody good

but I love Matt Pryor on auto car

and

he's bought

a

Audi A2

the 500 quid

good car

which I mean

it's another itch that I've got an A2

because because

it's just such a pretty bloody little thing isn't it

and he's delivered two bits of good news in his

in his recent

little article on auto car dot code at UK

he's fitted

smaller tires

and wheels

and his miles per gallon

has gone from 68 miles per gallon to 72 miles per gallon

and then which I think is bloody brilliant

actually I was talking to him the other day weirdly on on instagram

and he said where are you I said I'm on a plane

he said so am I I'm on a plane I'm like where you going

he said New York he said so am I

what seat you in

and he was in 12 b and I was in 14 a

we were on the we were on the same plane me and Matt Pryor

it's fantastic

you weren't having a roast at the two planes

honestly it's a true story

and he was going somewhere to drive a Kia for

you know 72 weeks across America

and I was just going for a meeting or something

and but the other thing that he's done

which I think is particularly

appropriate for Mr. Cooper

cleaner cars

to better miles per gallon

knew it

how amazingly good news is that

I knew it

you have a chance to attract this

otherwise I mean Cooper we're crowing about this for weeks

yes

so yes

so so here's the

here's the I'm not obviously I won't keep you all excited

by reading the whole article

but basically it says that if you if yeah

if you clean your car

it does an extra one to two miles per gallon

so actually clean cars

are good for the environment

and also

they feel better because

they're just lighter

because of the shit that you've got

so I think we have to thank Matt

for his lovely little good news article on auto car

thank you Matt

thank you Matthew

and I apologize

I used to wind Matt up

because I used to supply my copy a bit late sometimes

when he was an auto car and I was a free lunch

and I used to wind him up something calling

I do apologize

Matt

lovely man

I think

if you love cars

you should try to love your fellow driver

I think that's what you should try to do

rather than driving

being some

highly stressful

defensive out of my way

exercise

if we all drove going

do you know what we might be a very endangered species

very very soon

because a little computer will be taking away

all the functions you've got

you'll be sitting in your car

with you know

lane assist radar

accelerating and decelerating you perfectly

it'll effectively by being

like being in a train

and it's almost certainly going to be electric

as well

so we've got to enjoy the fact

that we have

these ICs

that we have an accelerator pedal

a brake pedal

indicator pedals

mirrors

three of them

normally

and we use them

and maybe use those

in a way

that rewards

your fellow driver

so you know

if you're in lane three

doing 72 miles an hour

and someone's coming along

at a vastly faster speed

look in your mirror

get out of his or her way

give them a little smile

what what what did your mother call it

when somebody was going really quickly Chris

she really thought

she looked me go

they're going well

why not do that

and I

as Mr.

as Mr. Cooper said

that this thing is all about empathy

you know he made his intention

clear in lane one

he didn't rush

he didn't you know

skid his car

and he waited for an appropriate hole

he realized that

that didn't just appear

people must have been

getting out of the way

so he could do that

and he decided to reward them

with a little handshake

and they reciprocated

I think it's

it's such a simple recipe

isn't it for him

exactly

little heart sign

we should

we should think about

our fellow I see users

and I get the other thing I would say is

there are professionals on the roads

and they tend to drive trucks and vans

and instead of always being rude about them

we should in our souls say

these guys do this for a living

especially trucks

they know how to reverse into places

they had to get into places

they really know

how to drive safely

because they're doing

30 40,000

miles a year

you know

they're doing

yeah

100

yeah

100,000

I'm quite right

the HGV one class one drivers

I mean how

I've done that

I would I don't like driving them

it's at the level of accuracy they have

how they want more accidents

is testament to how skilled they are

so they are a breed apart

and I think that

I think that that's

that's when a driving etiquette should all be about

overwhelming empathy

because they're just like us

they're just like us

and they

you know

anything that we can do

to make people like us

feel happier and more secure on the road

and

we should do it

do you think they still eat your keys

yeah

definitely

yeah

that's

I'm

I was very keen at some point to find out

where Chris Cooper was going with his trailer

another tree

we can he can confirm that thing

what I can say is

because it's

it's one of those

Brian James race

transporter things

so you can't see through it

or over it

it's too big

I love

it's part of that pride of

of learning a skill and loving cars and driving is

can you reverse the trailer

because I grew up

sort of

next door to a farm and live on a farm now

reversing a trailer is kind of you know you got a

can you put your boots on

can you reverse the trailer

those are

equal skill sets

not a challenge for me

I have to say I find it really really hard

to reverse because funny enough

you don't know how close you are to the thing you're trying to reverse

towards

and I thought I'll just stop at one point

I look out and to walk all the way back round it

put off I thought oh God it's really really hard

so you maybe need

maybe need a camera or a banksman

a banks

a banks person

right

so I'm

let's move on to

shooting break

a state car

station wagon discuss

I don't quite know where this is going

so I'm going to leave it to Neil first

oh God

you go off a tandem

he could answer anything it's

it's about four in the morning where he is he's half awake

he might just start talking about his left testicle

we've got no idea where he's going with this

so over to you, Neil

the left testicle that I might give to be able to drive a car on a track

ha ha ha ha ha

or even

or even reverse

reverse a trailer

or even put the trailer on the back of the car

that's how I did that

I tried that about three bloody time

now I think this is a Mr. Cooper thing

I think I suppose it's all about shapes of cars isn't it really and

estate cars

I adore an estate car

I know we've talked about this before but

not my only thing with the state cars

I don't have enough to do

to justify really

driving an estate car as much as I want

I always feel a little guilty

because I've got that lovely BMW estate car

and there's a guilt attached to a one man

in an estate car

within two

things in the back

and I always feel a bit of a plonker

even though I love I prefer the look of it

so I sort of choose to drive it

when there's absolutely no reason

to be driving an estate car

there's not a dog in the back

there's not an IKEA cupboard

there's not a fucking I don't know

every other there's not five children in it with a push chair

there's not all you know I've been through all that part of my life

fact frankly that's behind me which is good

so therefore there's

the guilt attached to loving an estate car

is a problem that I have because I'm

I'm

I'm always feeling a little bit

conscious of that

because I think other people look at me and say

why are you such an idiot that you're driving an estate car

when there's no reason for you to be in one

do we think that is a thing or is it my sort of weird brain

I think you're on

I think you're onto something because I do believe

it could be argued that for many people they're clinging on to a life

but they don't want to miss on you know the kids have fled the nest

you sit there and go

well of course we need the estate car

well you don't two of them at university got their own cars

they've no interest in you've got their own lives

I always have an estate car

because I love estate cars

but here's something I don't admit normally

my dog won't go in the boot of an estate car

if you put him in the boot

he just he'll just bash his way through the seat

and come into the into the cabin

I'm just going in the boot

in fact I'm so in agreement with you Neil Clifford

I do this sometimes in my estate car

I put stuff in the boot

just so I feel I'm using it

sometimes I'll put the shopping

if I was in a saloon car put the shopping on the backseat

but sometimes I'll open the boot just to go

well that's good

I couldn't have done that unless I had an estate car

well I could have done I think you

yeah you you sort of stretch the

stretch the excuse you know

you're on classic

classic car on classic driver whatever it's called

car on classic what's it called

on classic

car on classic

yes sorry Tom

yeah it's definitely not the other ones

the the

and you're looking at a 300 Mercedes

or or there's a rare 320

estate 7 seats

air conditioning

Valor

it's got all the tip

and you're like oh I'd have that

6995

what the fuck am I going to do with it

and I've got absolutely no reason

to have a car anymore

if it was a saloon car

you wouldn't you just

you'd brush it off

you wouldn't even leave it as a saloon

W124 saloon you go

nah nah nah

yeah exactly terrible bloody thing

even though you know

we should talk about saloons

because obviously we love saloons too

but the the estate car guilt

I think is a

situation I mean often

I like it I like it

I suspect we've not answered

Chris Cooper's question there

but we had a nice chat anyway

Chris Cooper what do you think

what what what are you making

from this statement

so

the reason for asking this question

was two fold do we think

that a shooting break in a

state car station wagon are different

yes

yes of course yes

and actually

and this is

this is where chat GPT

and in modern AI

as your help

because very quickly

you can get to the heart

of what's the origin of these

and actually

they're sort of all the same

in their origin

they were big boxy things

in which you could put people

and things for specific purposes

the shooting break

was shooting break

in a state car

essentially British

in their etymology

station wagon

is American

it's sort of my take of

what the internet has

sort of help me understand

and my own sort of thinking

the shooting break

the break was

a to

a description of

a horse drawn

carriage

that you could use to help

break in

I tame and train

a horse

a young horse

the state car

fairly obviously

it was the conveyance

used by the landed gentry

to transport people

and things around

their estate

station wagon

obviously an American

all early

20th century stuff

take people to and from the station

when we didn't have cars

now though they feel

slightly different

the shooting break

does feel like

it's a Porsche

like my Porsche Panamera

sausage thing

or that

really lovely CLS

shooting break thing

a few years ago

AMG 63 version was

I never liked those

I never liked this

it's actually the only car

I hate

is it really

we need to do more

my mic

we need to do more

I love those things

sorry carry on Chris

but I think there is something

it's the thought you've got one there

that's warm and cuddly

yes

it's the thought you've got one there

I could I could have an adventure

and on the very rare occasions

when you do fill the boot

of a proper estate car

fully so the whole floor is covered

with things

that's amazing

sense of well-being

if we've just gone shopping

I'll actually

this is really embarrassing

I won't put the shopping bags in the boot

because I'll just fall over everywhere

you put them in

the foot well of the rear seats

because you know they're all

held in

you go come back from shopping

there's nothing in the boot

it's all in the rear seat of the boot well

my dog won't go anywhere near the boot

too mad

Manish thoughts

my dog won't go anywhere near the rear seat

he loves the boot

you put a dog bed in

and that is his home

he absolutely loves it

just looks out of the back window

won't sit down maybe on a long-ish drive

have a little snooze

but I think

if the story is about aesthetics

I think a shooting break

for me to really qualify as a shooting break

had to have been a coupé before

I can you really get a four door

I mean I saw the sultan in Brunei's

four five six quote unquote shooting break

but it's also a four door car

it looks like an estate

I think if it's got four doors it's an estate

I think it's got to have two doors

to be a shooting break

so I think AMG

yeah AMG 63 I think that's an estate

with a curvy back

I don't think that's a shooting break

Did someone do a shooting break of William Towns'

Lagonda

that would still be a break and it's four seats

four doors

Yeah they did

Is that a shooting break?

Why is that not an estate?

I don't know

probably the best one is an Aston Martin repeat

I'd just like to mention that

They are obviously always the excellent

One of the two most iconic to me is the Aston Martin

rear ride height out

I listened a few

so the DB5 shooting break looks pretty spectacular doesn't it?

It's not my favourite aesthetic at all

then there's a

have you seen the

the Ferrari Daytona one of one

shooting break

black

what's crazy about that

are the gull wing door

glass sides

I had no idea

I'm jowing that car for a bit

No, he had the green one

There's a green one

There's two of them

Yeah

There's a green one too

Yeah

He did

So the one that Mr. Harris absolutely loves

is the BMW Z3M

That is a shooting break, isn't it?

Super stiff

I think so

I think so, yeah

So it's a great little cut

The Cimetar

Right

So that thing

Everyone owned it

They made it for about 10 years

That's probably the most

That is probably

The most prolific shooting break

10 years

Did Shoe String have one of those?

Eddie Shoe String

The very detective

Good question

Didn't he drive a Cimetar?

Did he have a funny arm

or am I confusing

him with someone else?

I don't think so

Joey Beedle, mate

So do it

Do it

So the FF

The FF is a shooting break

Isn't it?

It must be a shooting break

The Volvo 1800 ES

The Volvo

The point of that's a fabulous shooting break

But actually

I found and I will

Put the picture up

I'll give it to our producer

There's an XJS

Shooting break

Of course there is

Yeah

The links of enter

The links

What a fact

That would be

Of all the shooting breaks

I've listed that would be

My shooting break

They went up to 200 grand

About two years ago

But I think everyone's got

Rit, yeah

Johnny Smith's just done

One of his barn find

Films on a V12 Aventa

That's been in a shed somewhere

Go and watch it

It's a really lovely film

The fact

This woman's had it for years

Used to tell a horse box with it

That's amazing

It's a great

So I've

And it's a bit of a subject

It's pertinent to me

So Nils Van Roy

Is the guy

This guy that does

He does shooting breaks

So he did

You might be aware of the

Lovely Dario Franckity

Many of us

Three time indie 500 winner

But also owner of the

One of one Nils

Van Roy

It's a silver

It's a Wraith, isn't it?

It's a Wraith shooting break

Yeah, I mean

It's cool and Dario's got

Like roof bars

And it's cool as fuck

It's awesome

And he's just done

He's just done

A silver shadow

One off

It's beautiful

Yeah, it's the most perfect roofline

He also has done

A 550 Maranello shooting break

There you go

As a homage

To the 250 bread van

Which of course

He's one of the great shooting breaks

It's a racing car

I think

What I love

They are quite different things to me

They really are

Maybe it's because

The etymology is sort of

Developed as language always does

It seems to me that shooting break

Can't really be confined by

Too many hard points

But a shooting break

It seems to be something that's more extraordinary

Less expected

And it's probably

It's probably born of a car that wasn't

Obviously designed to be converted into something

That was more practical

I think that's why I think you

Everyone that names these things

I think

Reserves a little sort of respect for that

You wouldn't call it a shooting break

Unless people went

Oh, you really went to some efforts to do that

It's not just

That's a good point

Yeah

And I think

What I love about

They tend to have

A lower roofline than expected

And that's why I think that

Why we

I think why

I'm a very simple human being

This doesn't always work

And I find

Simpleness of form

Much easier for my brain to understand

So I love

I love estates

Because the roof goes a long way and stops

And I like things that go along

And stop, that's the shape I like

And the only exception to that is I love

I like saloon cars

When they have very low rooflines

Which is why I love a lot of the Jaguar

And Daimler's from the 80s

Because I love my big

Super V8 Daimler

Because you know, I spent your whole time

Looking at the top of the roof

It's so low

That I love that low roofline

And I

So that scene is sort of three box

That I tend to like

Whereas I think

Shooting breaks are just magnificent things

I really do

They're wonderful

I think

They

Even done averagely they're appealing

And when they're like

I'm looking at Neil's

Website now

Some of the stuff he's done

This shadow

Go and have a look at his website

It's absolutely

It's perfect

It's very rare

Do you get

Yeah, it's perfect

That is perfect

Wow

It looks factory

It looks 100% factory

The sleep teller is just the right thickness

It's just so well judged

And actually he's

The reason I started following him on Instagram

Is I posted a picture of my Daimler Super V8

And he posted a comment saying

Surely it's time for the shooting break

So can you imagine if we did a Daimler Super V8 break

How cool

I'm going to be 30 feet long

But so a links of enter shooting break

Of a Daimler double six

That's a really good idea

Right

But yeah

If I had the resources

Right

Here we go

Car things to cheer yourself up

At Christmas

Um

I'm going to go first to

Neil Clifford on this one please

I'm happy 48 weeks a year

But I don't I don't particularly like Christmas

It's one of those

Deep things that you know

Frankly I annoy everyone in my family

A little bit of Christmas and I have to

I have to

For four weeks a year

I have to pretend to be happy

A little bit

Which is sort of a bit annoying

Clearly I'm sort of happy

But I'm all happy on the outside

Than the inside

I don't I look forward to January

I look forward to

The scramble in January

I sort of if I if I look

Look for something in the distance

That keeps me going through December

It is probably the best

The scramble actually

And I love the feeling of new year

And you know

Shedding a ski

And even though you're a year older

I love the sort of

Rebirth

Yourself and renewal

And writing a list

And getting your shit together

And having a plan for 2026

And December feels to me

It's a very stressful time for me

But work

Work is the busiest time

And you know

House is always a bit hot

And you're talking about fucking Turkey

And it all

It sort of gets me down

Gets me down a little bit

Which is very unlike me

Because I'm sort of an optimistic person

So

This is my little

My little thing really

But what can we do

To keep ourselves happy

Which frankly most people

I've got a friend

Who's actually unhappy 48 weeks a year

And then he really loves Christmas

And maybe maybe we could do

Maybe we could do a swap

One human between you

Yeah

You know

I love the fact that people love Christmas

You know

I go along with it

I act it a little bit

Because you don't want to sort of ruin

Everyone's happiness

Do you?

You've got to sort of be a little bit unhappy

In silence slightly

And bless my watch

Neil, do you think

She looks after me through December?

Sorry, I was just going to ask

Do you think there's a little bit of

False happiness around this month?

Is that what slightly gets you?

You know, people are a bit heightened

I don't know

I can't really talk for anyone else

Apart from myself

But you know, I think, you know

Look, this is a happy podcast

So it's, you know

It's stuff that happened to me in the past

That I don't therefore like that period of the year

But nevertheless

I have loads of wonderful people around me

To get me through it

I think the key bit is

What wonderful things are happening

To around this time

That can keep us car people

Occupied really

Because, you know, we talked about the salt spreading

And the winter

And maybe

Maybe it's a bit of annoying time of year

I've got a lovely friend that runs a

Charity

It's called Steel City Portia

And obviously Steel City

It's up in Sheffield, right?

Yes

And when you dig into these things

There are loads of amazing people around the UK

That are doing really great things at Christmas

For people that maybe Christmas isn't a very happy time

And they're doing an amazing charity event

And please

Steel City Portia Instagram

And have a look

You know

Is this Saturday, Neil?

That's right

I think it is, yeah

And, you know, basically

They're meeting the Portia dealership in Sheffield

And they're getting loads of stuff together for kids

That need Christmas gifts

That maybe, you know, aren't going to get any

And so have a look at that

Because I think frankly

The more we can do to help other people

I suppose the point I'm making

Which I've been too deep

Is recognize that maybe not everyone is as happy

As maybe in theory strategically

How you should be in Christmas

I'm going to a thing

I'm back from New York on Wednesday

And P&A Wood

Which actually I've never been to

And I'm desperate to go there

Because it, you know, it looks an amazing

They're doing a lovely Christmas fair on Thursday night

P&A Wood

And obviously that's happened now

So this podcast goes out the day after

So you can't go

Because it was yesterday

But it's not actually not yesterday

It's two days time

So I'm going to that

Actually just to cheer myself up

And look

Look after your mates

Go on little car events with your mates

Go for a little drive

Go for a coffee

Talk to people

Look after people

Robert Denton

Robert Denton probably knows

Where all the car events are

So follow in on Instagram

And he will tell you

There's a place where you could go and have a coffee

And have talk, talk bollocks

With other lovely people about cars

And for all the people that love Christmas

You know, you're lucky

And I'll see you in Scramble

In January

Whenever that is

And I'll have a smile on my face again

Yes

Lots in there

That I agree with

Managed your thoughts

It's really funny

My overwhelming thought

At Christmas

Especially this Christmas

Is I think we should try to be a little bit

Aware of how much we drink

And this is very correlated

Obviously

But alcohol is a depressant

And it's a depressant

Over a period of time

In a way that lots of other drugs aren't

So if you're just basically

Having a couple of glasses a night

Which sort of rolls into a bottle

As you get closer to Christmas

Because we have so many events

You know, I've been invited lots of things

If I literally go to everything

And I've been invited to

And have two glasses of wine

I will be a depressive wreck

By Christmas Eve

And that's when it's sort of

And it is interesting

It's a cumulative depressant

And so all I would say is

Try really hard

With my sort of slightly doctorly hat

To have really

Not days where you

Maybe just have a glass

But see if you can have

Two or three day runs

Where you have no alcohol at all

It's just good for you

It means you can drive safely

You don't have to worry about things like

Breathalizers and blah blah blah

I'll tell you the two things that I am

I'm looking forward to three things in December

Massively

There's a

This isn't particularly correlated

But at the design museum

There's a Harlan Miller

Exhibition on the ninth

And I love his art

It's just fantastic art

Very modern art

A lot of people who have very nice cars

By his art

It seems to appeal to people

Who like cars

So there's Harlan Miller

On the 18th

I think the four of us are getting together

Ashley's Devonshire

Which I cannot wait to do

So that's a lunchtime

So I won't drink on the 15th or 16th

Or even the 14th

But I'm sure we'll have a drink

About lunchtime

And

You know what I'd really like to do?

I'd like to take Lola for a drive

Assuming it's a

Yes, do that

No, I'm going to take her for a few drives

But the big one

I'd like to go to Chatsworth

I'd like to go to Chatsworth in Pemberley

So that's sort of very

Jane Austenie

It's all very pride and prejudice

And I think just going somewhere

I've never been

Going somewhere that's really very beautiful

Very sort of nostalgic

But in a very different way

I think that's a good combination

And there are a couple of things that you've got to do

That are correlated at Christmas involving movies

You've got to watch

One of your favourite Bond films

Over Christmas

This year it's going to be The Spy Who Loved Me

My favourite

I just think it's a perfect

Whoops

Sorry, that's me

I think we should do a film Christmas list

Oh, definitely

I'm in, let's make a Christmas list

Spy Love Me

And then I think you should watch something else

With A Coronet

This year, because you did The London to Brighton

I am going to watch Interview

I am going to watch it

I think it's a beautiful film

Absolutely stunning film

I am sorry about that

I keep putting my phone on silent

And it's still ringing

It would be great on the comments

To get people's suggestions

For the best car movies to watch

Over Christmas

Yeah, that would be great

Absolutely

Chris Cooper

If I had two glasses of wine at every event

I've been invited to this Christmas

I would, by Christmas Day

I've had two glasses of wine

Oh, very good, very good

I really, Neil

We've, this is the third Christmas

We've been doing this

The third Christmas

It is

We've been doing this

And I'm always unhappy

And when Neil first described

How he viewed Christmas

I was, I was quite taken aback

Actually, because I sort of

I didn't know Neil very well then

But I sort of thought about it

Every year you've just said this, Neil

And this year has kind of resonated

Resonated the most

And I think there is something

You know, to be mindful of

In terms of the

There's too much of an ending feel

Actually, about

And whereas January and the scramble

And whatever it is

Thinking about the new Formula One season

And the new cars will be testing

Crikey six weeks after almost

Abu Dhabi

The new cars, all that changes

All exciting

Things look forward to

Days getting longer

Blah, blah, blah

Maybe it's because I'm getting old

And I don't like winter and dark nights

And short days and so forth

But I think

It's, it's, I really

I really sort of

Understand more and more, Neil

About how you describe

Sort of this particular time of the year

I have three events though

That I think

Actually

They're nice things to do

There's this weekend

This Sunday in London

Seventh de diciembre

There is the Land Rover get together

Who is that?

Land Rover of London

It's mad

It's absolutely mad

It's for Land Rover series, defenders

And other

Breeds and cross breeds

Of Land Rovers as well

It utterly takes over Belgrade Square

In the west end of London

It's really good natured

It is still fingers crossed

An asshole free

Event

It's a really nice friendly

Nobody dicks around

Everybody behaves

It's really if you're into Land Rovers

I don't quite know

Everybody gets them in with the you les

When I last year

I seem to get a bill

For an enormous amount

Managing my defender

And I think it's gross

We'll be there on Sunday

The following Sunday

Sunday the 14th of december

Will Pember, a friend of our podcast

And lovely chap

Is having a Christmas

First time he's having a Christmas

Wake up at Wilton

That his charity

Is the support

Is

The Salisbury Hospital

Starsfield

Salisbury Hospital

In Wiltshire

Which is fantastic

And on boxing day

When you really can't face

The heart of Christmas

On

Sarat Village Commons

Sarat is a little village

Not far from Neil and me

Sort of between Amisham

And Charlie Wood

Right on the heart

For Jabuck

And Michelle Borda

Not far from him 25

Very easy to get to you

If you're in the south

East of England

There's just a little land

Yes

Not far from DK land

It's a very lovely

Gentle gathering of tractors

Old Land Rovers

TR2s

Some modern stuff

Sort of the festival of

Sort of the ordinary

And some exotic one of what

And it's a really nice

Boxing day gathering

Cup of coffee

Bit of mulled wine

Bit of a chat

Lots of people in Wellington

Boots

Because he gets bit muddy

Bit is great

So that's what I would

I'm going to do

To cheer myself up for Christmas

This year

I can't add much to that really

Like Neil

I'm more outspoken

I really can't stand it

Don't like it

All sorts of personal reasons

It's the worst time of year

And but there's lots of ways around it

And I would say that

If you are into the motor car

You're probably better prepared

You've got more things at your disposal

To make it a happier time of year

Because there's a very nice

Just go for a drive

Or go into your garage

And rearrange your pots of

You know, your pots of polish

Or whatever you've got

Whatever space you have for your car

Apply some love to that

There's something Kari

You can do

Sit down

Buy some old car magazines

On eBay

Is what I do

Read old car magazines in the bath

Read car books

Go and buy a copy of

Mel Nichols' collected writings

Or go and buy a copy of

Backdraft

Or go and buy something that you want to read

Go and read some

LJK set right columns

From the 70s to the 80s

Because they are right out there

But my lord they're brilliant

George Bishop

All that stuff

Go and buy Mark Gels' Fastlane stories

And read those

So there's lots of reading to be done

Car films

We'll do that for you

On a few times

So but there's loads to do there

But I would say

Getting out and about is important

Because actually

If Christmas is bad

What you end up doing is getting stuck

In your little bunker on your own

And then

It all goes wrong

Because what you do is you end up

Well you end up in a situation

That results ultimately in something called

The Whiskey Files

So you might know what I'm talking about there

That's what I do

Now you all love the Whiskey Files

But I let it to Zygera

I don't remember recording one of them

I think

I'd say

Manages is right

Try and stay off the old Crogola

And also

Use the motor car as a conduit

For some good for other people

But don't worry about it being good for you

So I'd say

Identify someone that lives in a really remote location

That you've not seen for a while

Go and visit them

Go for a cup of tea or something

But use the motor car

Stay off the booze

And yeah

You know

There's so much out there

In our weird wild community of cars

To keep you busy

I think

Even though there are lots of car people

I'm sure struggle at this time of year

You have got potentially the best hobby

To alleviate whatever pain you're going through

So let's go to

Our next one

We're on to the two car garage now

Which is excellent

Because we've been going a little while now

So the two car garage

It's remarkably freeform

Although it was

I'm afraid slightly fueled

By the substance that Manish

Was advising us against taking

So

You're an automotive podcaster

This is from Jonathan, by the way

Who quite understandably at the end

Your run and sound has not left his surname

You're an automotive podcaster

You're looking for two vehicles

That will provide you with the basis

Upon which to chat bobbins

About your time with

A, no budget

B, no restriction

C, no bullshit scenario

C, sorry D, choose your own adventure

I think he's suggesting that we might be guilty

Of all of the above

So I keep it simple

Pick two cars you want to experience

And believe will be both compelling

To discuss the quirks and features

Of living with

To your fellow podcasers and audience

But most importantly something you want

For whatever reason takes your fancy

Sorry if the above doesn't make sense

I'm absolutely wankered on gin and tonics

That's how we signed it

Good lad

I can tell you was

Because that third paragraph was in one sentence

And it didn't give me any punctuation

Which to breathe

You bastard Jonathan

So let's go straight to Chris Cooper first

I thought it was brilliant this one

Brilliant

Thank you again to everybody who's written suggestions

And that one caught my eye

So well done Jonathan

Maybe it's to talk about your Daimler super V8

But I saw on car and classic this morning

It's the X351

The last XJ

They royal household

So presumably

The Andrew formerly known as a prince

Walked past it at some point

But it's it's a 85,000 miles

It's I think comes up for auction later in December

It just looks clear glass

Beautiful dark blue dark blue trim

5 liter V8 engine

I just thought

That's not going to be much money

It'll be a red

Red coat stripe down the side of it

No

Damn

Because that would mean it was

That would mean it was chuckles

It has the red stripe

No, it's not him

But it's a lovely thing

So I definitely go for that

The other one don't laugh

And it's

Well, I just to show it to you

It's a rally chopper

Love it

It's a rally chopper

Which is goes

It's on sale right now

I think we'll come up

Finally of auction

After this comes out

I never had a rally chopper

I had friends when I was growing up

I had a rally chopper

My brother and I

I distinctly remember

My mum and dad for one Christmas

Buying us a rally jeep bike

Which is great

It's a lovely bike

We didn't have a bike before

I mean sort of

You know, it was a really, really generous thing

They couldn't afford rally chopper

Because they were quite expensive exclusive at the time

And friends had them

And I always thought there was something

It was in the 19th

If you grew up in the 1970s

It's a rally chopper

Starskin Hutch

Rally chopper

Yeah

We thought a rally chopper was a Ford Torino

Particularly because it had

That gear shift

That little

It could go to neutral, couldn't it?

You could go into neutral

And you thought you were shifting gears

In some American tank

Muscle car thing

It's just nothing

There's

You know, childhood

More than a rally chopper

So I know it's not a car

But it's just

Yeah, I thought

I just love to have a rally chopper again

Or have a rally chopper

I'd like to see you ride it

No, it's not

So let's go to Manish

I decided to really free form this answer

So this is the first time

I've ever done it

I didn't even look at Karin Classic

To try to find my answers to this

I can pick anything from anywhere

So for this week

For the most free form

With due respect

I found this

Which is a Lamborghini Mura project

And I love the idea

Of spending

A couple of years

Every little spare moment of my time

Putting that thing together

With the people that I have met

Through this podcast

So the last

I mean it's just been

It's been extraordinary

I could sort of almost like

Pick up the phone to Scott Chivers

And say, Scott

What do you think we ought to do to start it?

And then end it

With that drive into Rockies

But only though the difference being

You don't go and just drop it

You have to work on it yourself

Have to give myself a minimum of

I don't know

Six, eight hours a week

That I am going to spend

With whoever

On whatever this car

It might take ten years

But to my eyes

It's the most beautiful car I've ever built

It's the first thing

The idea that I

Could use my hands

Which I used to use for a living

To go and bring something

That's inanimate

And really quite beautiful back to life

I mean it would just give us so much budget

You know if I did it

The fucking thing would break down all the time

Which would give you so much budget

No, maniche

No, no, no

Whatever gives you that idea

I mean

You know, we could even go on that same journey

Yonka Park on that same spot

You could call the same tow truck

I mean I don't think it would be very amusing

But I love the idea of doing that

And the other thing

I'm

Mr. Cooper and I are thinking very, very

Group thinking state

I

I can't ride a motorbike

When I was a kid

I used to be able to sort of

Pit-pit around on

Scooters in India and I've

Always loved the idea

Before you vanished or after you vanished

This was actually after I vanished

On subsequent journeys back

I mean yeah

But

This motorcycle to me

Has always been the most

The most beautiful iconic thing ever

The idea of buying one of these

Actually getting some proper lessons

Learning to ride

I'd probably have to buy a 125 first

But

I would love to have

The Sena Ducati

Yeah

Here's one

And then you know how to look

They're out there for sort of 20

25,000 pounds

I mean some are even cheaper

So you could

Just think about the new maniche

You know a guy can actually build bits of a car

And a guy can ride a motorbike

I mean

You'd come out of that 10 years younger

Yeah

I think that would be

That would be a tricky first motorcycle experience

I think you'd find your foot

Quite a lot

And that

Like me

They're quite

They're not easy to ride

So

Love it

There's two there

Neil Clifford

Right

Whenever the word

No budget gets written

I go full on

That shit crazy

And I did what Maniche did

And then actually

Fortunately reversed it

And it sort of does work

Just about in car and classics

I would

Because the story here

Just so I'm right is

You've got to buy two cars

But you've got to then be able to talk about them

And have a podcast

And do some YouTube

And have a thing going on

With these cars

And I would love to

Daily

A veron

Yeah

It's you know

It's the most ridiculous

But actually

One of the most incredible cars

Ever built

Chris did his little film recently

I think suddenly those things look

Ice

Ice cool

They're tiny

The engineering

Probably

Heek car

In many many respects

It's

It's just a fabulous thing

Unfortunately

There's one

On car and classics

Which actually is an R.M. auction

And see it here

So

Daily a veron

I mean, how cool would that be?

Such a pretty pretty cool bloody car

Can you imagine just having an Instagram story

Set up every day

And all you did was just put it live

You just videoed yourself

On one of those

On a quad lock thing

Just driving to work

In your veron

Every day

Yeah

You could have Instagram

That's just called Daily Veron

You'd get 250,000 followers

In like a week, wouldn't you?

Just, you know, whether that's a good day

That might not be a good thing

But you know what I mean

It's never the less

It would be such a joyful thing

And then to contrast that

I'm going to Bentley Blower

Because you've got to have a convertible

If you've got a veron

You've got to have something old and

Impractical and just

Ice core equivalent

So I went and found

Unfortunately, there's a few of them on there

But we found this one here

I don't know if you can see that

Yeah

So 1924

3.5 litre La Montura

They are just brilliant

Bloody things

This was

This was owned by

Fuck

The late Stanley Mann

Which of course

Yeah

There's what could go wrong there

This is the rid

This is the original Bentley

Dude, actually it was right

And one Le Mans

And it's only £440,000

No

It's

It's just a brilliant thing

And you imagine

You would have a lot of

Lovely followers on YouTube

And for your podcast

If you'd daily

A veron

And a Bentley 3.5 litre

Tourer from 1924

And fantastic

And you would

Even at Christmas

You might feel happy

Driving about in those bloody things

Oh yeah

I think I think there's a lot of solutions there

I found this

Curiously easy

Because it fed into my

Weird brain

Because I've always got

A couple of things

That I'm looking at

And they're my obsessions

And they tend to last a couple of days

They can go on a bit longer

And I forget I ever would look to them

But I've got two cars

I'm looking at the moment

So that's what I want

I don't care about how valuable they are

The first is a

A 996 GT2

Nice

And I owned one

I owned one in

It was offered back to me last year

I owned one in 2004

I love these

Because this is a first generation car

And

It would be so good

A conversation point

Because you could just have a separate part

This podcast called

How I Nearly Died This Week

It is easily the most dangerous road car

I've ever used as a daily transportation

If I had it for a year

I think it was a year

And I used it on the old

Michelin Pilot Sport

The original one, the hard one

And it had no traction control from factory

457 or 4

No, 467 horsepower

Rear wheel drive

It was an absolute monster

Back when I was probably more talented

And I was

And I was less worried about my own mortality

I would often be at angles on slip roads

At speeds that I couldn't really get in my head round now

But I loved it

And I'd love another one

Just a fabulous car

The other one is an itch that I will scratch

I hope at some point

And it's pretty ordinary

But I just

I don't understand why I've not had one of these yet

I just

Every time I see an Alfa Julia Quadrifoglio

I just think

That is a

It's a four door Ferrari

That is a

It's the most gorgeous looking car

I love the way they drive

Why have I not owned one?

I think

You're back to the conversation point

I think if I owned one of those

I wouldn't

I wouldn't be able to stop talking to you a lot about it

So I think yeah

Yeah, those are my two

I know they don't

They rather they rather disappoint

The sort of big value thing

And I'm sorry if

If Andrews

Totally drunken state isn't satisfied from this

But was it Jonathan?

Was it?

Jonathan

Sorry, Jonathan

But yeah

996 GT2

And an Alfa Julia Quadrifoglio

Let's move on to

Absolutely two car cars

Music

Which is

I'm going to go straight to Manish first please

There's a wonderful horn player called Mark Isham

Who in the 80s and 90s

Actually recorded a bit of stuff with David Silvian

He's gone on to become a massive movie composer

But there's a piece of music from the 80s

It's called The Grand Parade

It's a musical piece

It is stunning

Excellent

I love the fact we've moved away from popular music

Manages back educating us

Long may it continue

Chris Cooper

There's only one this week

Abba the winner takes it all

Oh

Is that the fire rules B side as well?

Right

So let's go for

Let's go for Neil

Go for Neil

One of the best things I've done this year actually

Is I went and saw Radiohead last week

At the A2

And of course if you ever need a band to cheer you up

That's good

Christmas is going to be

It's going to be Radiohead

No, you know, I love I love the band

Like they're a family member to be honest

So many songs I could choose

It would be

The Benz album

I always choose the first song on an album

Planet Tellex

Every single song of Radiohead is magic

And it will cheer you up

If you're clever

Okay, that's all

How about when you're

You're sitting in a car with other people

And a song comes onto the radio

That is so uncool

But it just reminds you of part of your life

That was quite carefree and happy

And therefore maybe a part of growing old

Is it being comfortable enough to say to people

Either sing along to it or go

I love that tune

No one's going, why do you like that?

How about this one then?

Tasman Archer

Sleeping Satellite

Do you remember that from the early 90s?

Love that

It's a great pop song

But it's cheesy as hell

But it's a really good pop tune

Go and listen to it

Right

I don't think there's any more housekeeping there

I'm going to go away and attempt to sit in the passenger seat

Of the East African Safari Rally

I'm not driving this rally

I'm actually co-driving

So I've never done this before

And frankly I'm really looking forward to the challenge

I've got 30 Porsche driving the car

I never thought I'd drive

I never thought I'd sit in the car

And the surname on the side of the car

Is the same as the make of the car

That's quite cool, isn't it?

It just says Porsche

He drove well in the test today

So it's going to be of an adventure for us

It's a 10-day event

It's utterly gruelling

I saw some of the road conditions today

First-hand is full on

I suspect I will do a couple of stages at some point

But at the moment I'm running shotgun

And I'll leave you with one thought

This is a bit naughty

I spent last night

Having a few scoops of the good stuff

With Joss Verstappen

And I can't talk about any of it

Because that's the nature of this world

One has to remain tight-lipped about these things

But let's just say

I had quite an interesting evening yesterday

It's...

Next weekend is going to be fabulous

I'm so pleased with the sport

I love it when everything combines

To create these crescendo moments

And I think it's a reward

For the fact that we've stayed with Formula One all year

And we've remained interested in it, isn't it?

So I think it's our reward

For being good supporters of the sport

So, uh, lots of love to everyone

Christmas is going to be great for you all

Don't worry about it

And, uh, we'll see you next week

Bye-bye

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