Ford CEO Jim Farley

Bring a trailer podcast. Hi, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the BAT podcast. This is Randy

Nahnemberg, co-founder and president of BAT. I'm super excited to have somebody from our BAT community

joining here today, who you also may have heard about out in the broader car universe. Jim

Farley is joining us, the current CEO of Ford Motor Company. He joined us from Dearborn

Michigan, and we are super excited to have him here today, and excited that he's a part

of the BAT community. Jim, welcome. So nice to be here, and thank you very much for

having me on the show, and also being on my drive podcast. I love that, Randy. Yeah, absolutely.

We can talk about the drive podcast. You have me as a guest there, as well as an illustrious

list of all sorts of people. And I think you're in season three of podcasting. So you're

kind of pro. You may be ahead of me here on podcast, professional career, if you need something

to fall back on or I do. So that was great fun to chat with you about cars in Ford and

history and some things, but you've had all numbers of guests on drive. Tell our audience

a little bit about driving and maybe why you're doing it. Well, I started three years ago.

I wasn't quite sure, but I thought it'd be fun to talk about cars just for driving instead

of the business and everything I'm used to talking about. So try to get some guests that

people relate to like Tom Brady and others over the last couple of seasons. This season's

a lot of fun. I've grunk and Jay Leno and T-Pain and Vicki Butler Henderson for those

of you who watch UK shows. She's a really big presenter over there of a top gear, et cetera.

And Frankie Munoz, who's a child actor, who's turned into an ass car driver. So, you know,

talk to an astronaut from the UK. It's a great diverse show. And I try to make it about

people's common experiences like road trips, the first car, things like that that we can

all relate to and kind of demystify some of these famous folks and to just car people

like you and me. That's fantastic. Yeah. No, it's really fun. I heard of it because people

forwarded it because BAT was mentioned long before I was on it in one of your early season

somebody. Oh, yeah. Brought the cars up for a station back to BAT. I think it was Sydney

Swini. She's bought a couple of cars off the AT and you guys kind of had a chuckle about BAT

on there. So whenever BAT is mentioned, still all these 17 years later after starting BAT,

whenever it's mentioned somewhere by someone notable, like, hey, Randy, Randy, check this

out. Check out this moment that happened for BAT. So, anyway, that was great fun. So people

should go check that out. Obviously, they can find drives on any podcasts or Matt out there.

I listen to it on Spotify. It's great. So that's going on in your life. But we also want to talk

about your sort of car world. Obviously, you're running this gigantic operation at Ford,

but you are always interesting to me because it's kind of, it's in your hobby. It's in your

profession. It's kind of in your blood, I would say. And I know a little bit about your history.

We talked a little bit about your history and transparent about that on your podcast

and elsewhere. But maybe our audience doesn't know too much about that. So if you tell us a little

bit about where the car blood comes from for you. Well, I grew up in Argentina and eventually

made my way to the US and my teens and got a paper route like most of my friends and got

a twin stingray. And, you know, I didn't have much to do on the weekend. We just moved

to Connecticut. And I found that the Ferrari distributor for all the US, Mr. Kennedy's operation

was off the post road right near where we live. So every Saturday we'll go down and of course

spend time with the mechanics, the Italian mechanics who would show me all the old race

cars that he owned. And I started really love cars that way. And of course, Fafaggio was

from Argentina and he was, you know, more than just a car driver there and a world champion.

He was a mega star growing up. And so I really started to learn more about cars. And when I was

14, I drove a car across country, a Mustang that I rebuilt the motor on. That was my first

car. And so I started working on cars myself when I was pretty young. And when I went to

graduate school at UCLA, I put myself through school working Phil Hill's restoration shop

called Hill and Vaughan. And they did a lot of the Pebble Beach winning cars. I'm an interior

person. So I know how to sew and got a job there for two years and really started to know

about Pebble Beach. I met Brick Cunningham who was a customer and a lot of other people

for us Americans who and I were working for Phil Hill getting yelled out by a world champion,

our first world champion in the United States was pretty cool. And I had this parallel life.

I, you know, I worked in IBM and finance and I decided to go into car business. I was scared

because I thought it would ruin my love of fair cars because it is a business. And I started

at like Lexus and Toyota at the very beginning in the 80s after I got out of graduate school.

And I, I had this parallel life where I had a working career at a car companies or car companies.

And at the same time, I really devoted most of my hobby time to, you know, working on my cars

and collecting cars and flipping cars and eventually racing cars and restoring them on, you know,

in the kitchen and everything else. And I think I guess that turns out to be kind of an oddity

for car executives. Maybe not as much back in the day. Do you think there were more car execs that

were kind of doing that and had dirty fingernails and stuff back in the day. I do. Oh yeah, for sure.

I kind of, what I, you know, I've done a lot of research on that question. And I would say,

there's kind of two types. There was the kind of bigger than life, personalities that didn't

know much about cars. And then there was a really serious engineers like Delorean and others

who became, you know, more senior. And then you have the people who really get their hands dirty

and that tends not to be the case. There's a lot of people own fancy cars or even race,

but actually working on your car in the weekend is not typical, I would say, of all those people.

There's a lot of car people, but as you know, the hobby is so diverse. There's not a lot of people

building plastic models and underneath my 73 Bronco, you know, changing the front axle.

That is pretty rare I find. Yeah, absolutely. And I don't think it's necessary. I don't

necessarily know. No, not at all. Right? And you could be in the cars. So many, so many different

ways, right? You don't have to. Yeah, no, I'm not changing. I don't want to, yeah, absolutely

right. This just fits me and my son and my life. And that's kind of who I am. But you know, no

judgment at all. I mean, Leigh Eikoke was an amazing executive, Carol Shelby. I got to know him

when I joined Ford. I mean, these are all incredible people and they all have different connections

to cars, as you said. Yeah, we see that in the BET community is diverse, as you know, and some

of them turn wrenches and some of them aren't sales and some of them cars are just a Saturday

thing. And some of them, I mean, it's all different stripes. So sometimes one group will say,

well, you know, if you haven't rebuilt the engine yourself, like you're not a true Mustang guy

or whatever, right? And I'm always like, no, there's some pretty legit book that don't even know,

you know, how the pits and rings work. And that's totally fine. And they all contribute in so many

different ways. So I'm encouraged by that. But it is interesting to me, because I just sort of have

a lot of parallels to you and what you've done. I came out of working in a Mustang shop and

haven't dirty hands. There you go. But I've been climbing through the ranks. So that's encouraging.

But one thing, I want to touch on a lot of what you said, the Lexus component in the early days

is fascinating to me, the working in your hobby. A lot of people congratulate me because I've gotten

to work in my movie. Isn't that funny? We should talk about that because you're like, you're like,

yeah, yeah, actually, it's not about the cars running forward. You know, I wish it was. And it's

probably the same for you, you know, everyone imagines our day probably totally different than like,

you know, people think I'm in the design studio, you know, and that's that's not how it works.

We're running a $200 billion business like, you know, like your business. And it's it's different

than what people imagine, which is fine. Yeah, but even just the psychology of that people are like,

oh, that must be so great. But I always respond to the question about how that is like it's it has

good and bad. There are good days and there are bad days. Some days I didn't work in what my

weekend hobby is, right? You're very close to it. And you can get burned out on it after years

and years of work in the same industry. But you just need an outlet. I find that I just need an

outlet elsewhere. Do you have those other outlets too? I think you're more than just a car guy.

Yeah, I'm, you know, like most people, I mean, I cherish my time with my family. I have three high

schoolers and my wife Leah. And yeah, I love the outdoors. I mean, if I had my preference, I wasn't

doing Ford. I'd be I'd be hiking the Pacific Coast Trail or be out there camping for a month at

a time or I love motorcycling. And yes, it's a mechanical thing like cars. But what I love about

motorcycles is more, more the people and the trips and, you know, the escapism. I love mountain biking

and, you know, anything like that. I guess I'm always trying to compete against myself.

It's good to hear just a little bit of context from folks, you know, because you're in the headlines a

lot, obviously, for Ford and, and the direction of the company. I associate CHU very closely with

a lot of the product that's coming out. Yeah. But to hear people's backstory and I think people

that the BET community will touch there right now, your interaction with the BET community and your

experience there. I'd love to hear A, where you found it. But B, I want to talk about the Pantera.

You made a purchase of the AT, which means you're more than just a passing interest in BET. You're

like a legit participant. So we can talk about the Pantera. But where did you first find BET?

Where did it, or did it find you? First early days, like literally the first, first time it came

up as a site. I found it fascinating. And of course, I've been flipping cars my whole life.

I bought my first Cobra, you know, site unseen sort of speak or that was kind of a funny story. But

I had a lot of my wife and flight upstate New York and the guy blindfolded me. And I thought

it was going to be like, I don't know. It's like like bad movie or something, but he wound up

being an amazing person. And I've been flipping cars like that, including GT 40s or whatever

I've moved up the ranks or speak. But I lately have been really enjoying working on cars as a winter

project. So I'll buy a car like the Pantera and I'll work on it all winter. And I don't want to

buy a car that has paintwork or requires heavy maintenance. But I go through the car. I have

a list of 40 or 50 things. And by the time spring rolls around, it's a great running car. I did that

with my 73 Bronco and now with the Pantera. And I got a couple of friends that helped me. Now my

son's helping me. So I just love that ritual. But on the site, you know, I'm a comments person. I

love going to the comments. I'm actually I'm Ford Man 21. So you guys can look at my negotiation

habits. I tend to be not a good negotiator. I would say I kind of like show my hand a little

to early. And then I wait till the very end. And then I give now I give myself like a number.

And I can't go by the number. I think that's a good policy. But I've really enjoyed bidding on

cars and bring a trailer. I like the kind of idea that I'm in the board room and submitting a new

offer under the desk or to speak or at some place where you shouldn't have your cell phone. And

I just love the diversity on the site. I can kind of collect virtually, you know, visually. I love

the videos of people driving the cars. There's so much to love about. Bring a trailer. And I've

kind of fallen love over time as you guys changed the product. You've made it really different and

better. And that that's been more fun. I have to say though that I spend most of my time on this

five to six day old inventory before it gets expensive or before people start weighing in.

I like being there early and falling a car. How do you have time to do all this, Jim? You're a busy

dude. Yeah, you know, we all have, we all have five minutes. I can five five minutes before I go

to bed or, you know, at 530 in the morning. And I'll just, you know, look it up. And yeah, I think

we're going to all five five minutes. Yeah, for sure, for sure. My five minutes tends to turn

into five hours. If I'm not sure. Yeah, that part I don't have. I think that's it. And then I'm

gone. Yeah, I have to leave. Yeah. I love it. Well, you can tell, I mean, you're, I consider

your product guy. You talk a lot of them for product. Now you're even digging into aspects of the

BET product. You said maybe talking about that would be an interesting topic for us to chat about

today. I would love to hear your ideas or your thoughts. And obviously we'll talk about

broader car industry stuff later as well. There's a lot that I'd love to get to. But since you touched

on it here. Yeah. Yeah. What aspects of, of dive it around in BET is, is I have a couple friends.

So BETs turn into a social thing for me. So like I think like so many of your customers and clients.

So I love comparing like odd cars that are on BET. Like if there's a Pinto station wagon with

orange, velv, you know, interior, I love sending out to my friends and, you know, I love tracking,

you know, good values. Really bad buys. Like someone paid way too much for something. I love kind of

building new categories. You know, you have like British cars and German cars. You have your

categories. I have my own categories. Like I would love to create my own category of like really

strange cars in the 70s that are oddly preserved. Because I grew up in the 70s and it was a really

bad time for a car industry. There was not a lot of good cars. And I was in a lot of those cars.

And, you know, they come up on BET and some of their just like how did that not get thrown away

or crushed or, and I love those kind of categories like super good value categories. That'd be one.

The other one would be like a more of value line. Look, let's be honest, you know, things that

BET have gotten really expensive. And we love it that way. And there's no mystery. What I love is

the ethos that everything is disclosed. That is amazing how you've created that expectation.

And if you're going to sell something, disclose everything. And if you want to get a premium,

the more you disclose, the better. But the other side of that is wouldn't it be great if there was a

value oriented like my kid Jameson. He's he's got a 1990 Mustang like a drag car that he's

building. And he bought on Facebook marketplace. And I think it's interesting, you know, your

competitors of change is like our competitors have changed look at China. And I would love BET

to have kind of more of a value line. It takes a lot of time to find a, you know, a value oriented

car on the site. And that would be really fun to have a category like that. But what I really

love is it'd be great to virtually collect the creative collection, a virtual collection that

you could price over time like you could use the market and BET could price it over time to see

if you made a good decision or not and how how your collection, you know, did in the marketplace

or a speaker kind of fantasy league for for our industry. Oh, I like those. I'm going to have my

product guys listen to this podcast. This is red meat. This is good stuff. Good stuff. Yeah.

What a great platform. You have it. It is evolving. You know, I mean, there's so much that we can

add to it. And there's so much that people want it. We hear feedback all the time as I'm sure you do.

Yeah. Is there any way you could rate notes like because I love the notes personally, that's like

what I love the most is going into a car at the very end of the auction. Not when it's bought yet

and see how all the notes evolve and all the technical aspects of the car and how engaged the

seller were in responding to the notes and how thoughtful the notes were. Some of them are really

cheeky. Some of them are funny. It's like a social thing. It'd be great to kind of be able to

meet the people that make the notes because I've started to recognize some people like that person

is really detailed about mini coopers. And you know, that I think that's a social aspect of the

platform that could evolve. Yeah, absolutely. We do a series called 10 questions with some of the

the most notable commenters. Oh, really? Get a little like where they from. Like what's their

deal? Who's there? Yeah. 10 quick shots with a bunch of them. And we've done a few dozen of those

because there are people that sort of rise to the top guy in a mini cooper listing like the same

folks will show up. Who is how do they know so much about minis or how do they know about

e-types? Like e-types are deep in that world. But no, that's great. That's great advice. And the

fact that you haven't heard of it means we need to publicize it more or make it more visible. But

we share your sentiment on that. And the community component of BET obviously is such a differentiator.

So it's interesting to hear your feedback on wanting to hear more. Tell me about the social

dynamic of you say you kind of send around links or you send around a pinto interior to your

buddies. Yeah, like Colin Comer and Wisconsin's a good friend of mine. And Colin and I are

always going back and forth about like, you know, those kind of cars. And then it gets into the

phrases, you know, if it's rocking, they'll come on knocking and you know, you have all of the

memories and the perspective is a car person over your life that you want to compare with a friend.

And you know, these these cars always bring back fun memories of, you know, the first eight track.

Well, mine was a Peter Frampton and someone else had something else, you know, like Colin and

we're anyways, I love taking cars and making the link and and pushing it to a friend that it's

relevant. And then we can connect outside of just, you know, being friends, we can have a little

escapism, a little daydreaming about whether we would want to buy this car, whether it's worth as

much as it should or whether this comment was valid or not. I think that aspect, you know,

it certainly enriches my life more than actually the cars, you know, being able to connect with people

over our passion. Absolutely. I do that with my dad. I got a text right out of my dad and my uncle.

I've got, I've got, I've been going with my boy and we're just going to be T-links back and

forth and buddies and all sorts of stuff. So I love hearing stories like that. A lot of family

stories, a lot of, you know, my old college buddies that I send and stuff around, like those stories

bubble up, the social connection component of BET makes me really, really happy. And thankfully,

we don't all have to go mine Craigslist to go find links to send. We can just kind of go to

BET and get a better hit rate, you know. And it's good to see, I love the fact that you take the time

to track the market. So you could see, you know, general trends in the market, you know, I always

go into the cars that I know a lot and look back four or five years over the auctions and see the

diversity of the data. It's much more rich than, you know, haggard evaluation and some of the

other kind of single point estimates. I really love learning about how the market is changing.

I want to ask you a little bit about you. You listed off some interesting brands. Obviously,

BET, one other thing I love about BET is the, the breads and the varieties. So you say Lexus and

it's not a 30 word on BET. It's a great. No, not right. Opportunity. And you said you weren't

to Toyota. And now for you said Lexus in the 80s. I mean, that's like almost back to launch of

Lex, right? It's birth. I mean, that must have been an interesting time to be working with.

There was and people don't realize, you know, there was not many of us as a very small group. I was

a product planner. I came up with this thing we proposed to Japan called the RX 300 before

it was an RX 300. And it was really fun. It was a small group. We were the last of the Japanese

to get into the luxury car market. Acura was there a long way before we were and then

Infinity launched to Q45 right before our LS. And, you know, we really knew that we had to bring

our A game because the others had really great product. Infinity had the rocks and the, you know,

the kind of very organic design. And of course, Acura had already been well established with the

legend product. And so we, you know, we had to bring our A game and do something different. So

the idea was, let's combine the world's best experience. Dave Ellingworth and

Dick Chidi came up with this idea of treating people as a guest in your home. So we put like car washes

in all the dealerships. And that was like shocking. It was like, why do I need to put a car wash

in my dealership? You know, there's a car wash down the street. It was like, well, no, because we

wanted you to wash every car. And they're like, well, I would never do that. And I said, well, yeah,

you want to be a Lex deal. You're going to wash every car and you're going to have a brunch on Saturday

and welcome on the owners. And, you know, we really embraced this idea of treating people as guests.

And then having product that was silhouette innovations like the first Lexus coupe that was more

advanced and more different. And then kind of the next generation of quality, we wanted, you know,

Lexus to kind of be the quality leader for Toyota. And so we thought that NVH was going to be the

next level of quality outside of reliability. And that's why the LS was so quiet and focused on,

you know, low NVH, which winds up being, you know, then delegated or democratized to Toyota.

That was the purpose of the division. It was really exciting. It was not a big group. And we really

had a lot of pressure to perform because we were quite far behind others. And this was all out of

torrents in Southern California. Yes, in torrents. It's interesting. Lexus is a synthetic brand. It's

it's not like BMW Mercedes or other brands that premium brands that kind of grew up kind of

finding its way through their voice and the product. It was a self created synthetic brand,

I would say. And it came from America. Lexus was never launched outside of America until many years

after. It's now around the world. But it started in the US. And then it grew globally. And it had

a lot of growing pains and a lot of, you know, I launched Lexus in Europe. And it was not a success.

The first IS was not a successful product to compete with the three series, you know, real world

drives a sport compact coupe and four door. So we, you know, there was a lot of experimentation.

There was no guarantees that we would be successful. But the RX totally changed everything. But

that product, literally one product, we became the best selling luxury brand in the US,

which was really shocking because we went from like 50, 75,000 to, you know, way over 100.

We didn't have any dealership. So it was like a big surprise to us that one product could change

a brand so much, but it did. Wow, it's so cool that you were there at that moment. I actually

remember that, I mean, the IS when it was released, a rear drive, so you say it wasn't a success,

but it was interesting. And it got a lot of magazines like wanted to write about it,

because it was a departure, right? A rear drive Japanese thing. You get a stick and it had

the chronometer dials in it. And I was in Europe actually doing an internship for BMW,

which is kind of where I got my start in the business. I see. And that car was meaningful.

Like I went to a dealer in Europe to find one of those and look at it because I was like,

this is an unusual offering in that it was a Lexus. So anyway, that was an interesting time.

It was. And you know, it was able to be at the beginning of the Sion launch. And I was a head of

Sion when we were launching. And that was a really interesting process because we were able to

really study Saturn very carefully what worked and what didn't. And you know, I went to Europe

with Toyota as an American and helped launch kind of their first indigenous products in Europe,

a Yaris and all of that. It was, you know, diesel engines. A lot of strange stuff over there.

Yeah. So I was lucky. I got to do a lot of unique things. I was mostly in product planning,

working on the first Tacoma. I was the project leader for the Tundra when we tried to take

on the domestics on the full-size pickup truck. So I was able to see Ford as a competitor.

Super interesting. I like car industry, insider timelines and product launches and that sort of

stuff. So anyway, I kind of geek out on that stuff. So I live here in your stories from those

brands and just remembering those times and the competitive landscape in those years and what

was going on. So that obviously has sort of formed you and your journey and then you come back to,

you know, run Ford, a very American brand. And it's journey has also been interesting,

sort of veering more towards enthusiast, I think, for sure.

In a lot of positive ways. And I love to see that naturally. I think a lot of people listening

have loved to see the Mustang be vibrant and see the Bronco research and all these things that

you've had your, I mean, that isn't just you. Obviously, you have a very large team,

but you have been sort of at the helm while that happens.

Yeah, I really felt like, you know, every car company has its natural state.

What it wakes up in the morning, metaphorically on Monday and does without trying really hard.

And, you know, Ford does enthusiast products, off-road and commercial, almost better than any

company I've ever had. I've had a compete, as I said. And I really believe that the best

way for a car company to be its best self is to lean into what it does naturally well.

Instead of looking at it as kind of a full lineup and you have to do everything,

you know, yes, there's some aspect of scale that makes a huge difference. But, you know,

at Ford, our ideas and like no boring products. And, you know, yeah, that doesn't mean we live in the

past either, you know, it means we're going to have a marquee. And we're going to, you know,

always test with an equal boost Mustang. And we're going to be the Porsche of off-road enthusiasts.

But we'll do it our own way with Raptors and Broncos and Tremors and not someone else's way.

And we believe deeply in racing and tying that back to the business. But we also love our commercial

business and our retail F-150 and pickup truck business. We're now the largest pickup maker in

the world. That wasn't the case when I joined the company. We were 14th with Ranger around the

world and Hilux was way ahead of us in number one. And we're now number two to Hilux. We have five

plants around the world that make Ranger and it's our second best-selling vehicle globally.

And we love our commercial lineup with Transit and all the different kinds of transits around

the world. And of course, Super Duty and our commercial lineup. And now that includes software and,

you know, repair services. So that's changing a lot. Hey, I think we're sticking to our knitting.

But we're going to grow. And we're going to grow by doing what we naturally do well,

accentuating what our team members love doing. And then pushing the envelope in a few new areas

like EVs. It's exciting to watch. I love being there. I kind of want to be behind the curtain

sometimes. But I also like being on this side of the curtain so I can kind of just be the

full of hard work. See which levers you pull. Picking which lever is your problem. You've got to

figure it out and navigate that. And we get, honestly, the consumers get the benefit from that

so much with the competition and the evolution of things. So I've enjoyed that quite a bit.

We see a lot of variety on, I mean, we're some Raptors on BET that are secondhand in all the

generations, right? And it's been interesting to see my dealers are so upset at BAT because the first

thing I do when they charge over sticker prices, I go on BAT and start sending the dealers.

Because I know what dealer lives in which area. So I'll just go on BTO. Okay, that's 10 grand

over sticker. That that's again, the same dealer in South Carolina trying to, you know,

trying to do this. And then I send it to my salespeople and the people like, could you stop

sending us BAT screenshots? Like no, I'm not going to, you know, yeah, so I know your evidence.

Isn't it? I mean, yeah, it is totally. It's a market place. So, you know, it's completely

efficient. And to me, it's, as a CEO, it's a great, you know, because I want to have all my

vehicles on BAT being sold, you know, because that shows that we're getting the product right and

people want to buy them. And there's too few of them. So yeah, it's a great resource for me on my

job too. Yeah, it's fascinating. I mean, I've fantasized on some level of having new cars sell

through BAT and setting a price in that way, because it's so efficient in how it sets the price.

But that's not, I mean, obviously, you have a very meaningful relationship with your dealer

network. And there's a bunch of a lot of laws about that. Yeah, there's a lot of, there's laws

that are politics. There's all sorts of stuff that relates to that. And much of that is really great.

But I've always wondered, like, at the beginning, there's all this demand and things are selling

way over sticker. And then they settle the sticker. And then by the end of the runoff, and they're

being discounted, like, crazy to move them out the door. So the price, it's almost like the

customer, that number that's picked, you have teams of marketing people that like MSRP is on a

on. They're almost always wrong. And almost always wrong. Well, if they are, you have to make

all these adjustments. Oh, yeah. It's really difficult. Ship patterns and supplier capacities. And

you know, I laugh about when I, you know, work at a brand like Toyota, we meet so many. We used to

laugh, you know, Vanilla is the best selling flavor of ice cream because, you know, we saw a lot of

corollas and cameras and those kind of vehicles. But, you know, in that kind of company, when you have

a sports car, it's like, it feels like the company kind of has a memory lapse. So it goes, we

got to do it. A super fill in the blank. Then they, they come out with it, you know, and then

for two years, you look like a freaking hero. And then after everyone who one-on-one got one,

there's no more demand. It falls off immediately and steeply. And then you have like six years to

forget about the fact that it didn't work that well. And then someone comes around about seven

years later, I'm not joking. It's like seven or eight years and they go, we need to do another

zebra. And you're like, wait a minute. What? We already tried. What? And then we do it again, MR2.

Like I, I've seen it in 40 years career. I've seen it like five full cycles of being excited,

then being really depressed, then forgetting about it, and then getting excited about it.

The good thing at Ford is we never kind of got out of the Mustang business. So we have a good core

group. That's really funny. But they come back and they're going to do it again. Yeah. Yeah. It's

almost like going back to the pain again. Absolutely. And the highs are so high, I guess the lows

are pretty low, but the highs are really, really high. There's a lot of publicity. It's a total

great tragedy. It's a great tragedy. It's going to play out in front of all of us as guard people.

You know exactly how it's going to end. I'll give you six sports car name plates. And you go,

yeah, they're in the fifth to six year cycle. Oh my goodness. What those NSXs are worth now.

And people are paying for them. But that the end of the run of NSXs, they couldn't move those

all. They couldn't. Yeah. When I joined the company, they had like three auto show cars,

the O5 GTs that you could buy in the company for $110,000. And they were like single digit

ceiling numbers. And no one would buy them. Can you imagine buying a heritage O5 GT at $120,000?

Oh man. They were everywhere. They were everywhere. Well, if those are lying around,

if those one offs are still lying around and we're in the tragedy part of the cycle,

when you want to put someone be a teenager, some funds, you just describe the whole. That's

what we do is car people. If you want to flip cars, that's what you do. You figure out exactly

where you are in the cycle. And you know, it's pretty predictable. No, man. I love thinking about

that. And you know that the man, I mean, those things stand the test of time though, right? Those are

what's, you mentioned like MR2. I mean, those are popular on BUT. Like a clean, low mile manual transmission

in MR2. Like brings a bunch of money now, right? And so I don't know. There's some sort of 20,

30 years later resurgence. I don't think any of the marketing people are still around that cared

about those decisions, you know? No, no, no. There's a couple that don't make it like a stealth,

you know, like a 3,500 mitsu. Those are really cool cars. They just never made it to the next.

They didn't make it through. They didn't make it through tragedy face back to that. That's like

a full on. There was no second. There was no second try. How many employees are at Ford worldwide now?

Just under 200,000. We have about 180,000 people that I think about every day. My grandfather was an

hourly worker here at the Rouge plant. Started Highland Park building a Model T's. And he was

a 389th employee of the company. So I came back and what logic is a him. He got me excited about

reading autumn news when I was a kid and, you know, yeah, we have 180,000 people. And we have to

make really good decisions as leaders of the company so that they can have wonderful lives and we

can hire more because a job at Ford is a great job. You can have an amazing career in life if you

work at Ford. But we have to do our job as leaders. Yeah, talk about leader where I was going with

that is sort of leadership philosophy and your ability, like when you're walking the halls, I don't

know what people listen to the podcast are thinking, but I envision you obviously in a variety and

a lot of travel all over the place worldwide. But also just sort of walking the halls of Ford,

like what's going through your head in terms of connecting with people and shepherding not only

the product and the offering, but the team that's around it. What goes through your mind?

Well, I would say people would tell me is a very intense leader who is very focused on excellence.

I was very formed with my Toyota experience. So I really expect the most out of people,

often more than they expect out of themselves. And I demand the very best for Ford because I think

Ford deserves the very best out of everyone. At the same token, I really believe in going and seeing.

So I do a lot of plant visits. I always walk the floor wherever I am, engineering studios,

whatever I say hello to everyone. I want to know what they're doing because I love what we do.

But more importantly, I want to connect with people at a human level so that I can understand how to

make good decisions. Sometimes that's just seeing how hard they work and putting that kind of pressure

on yourself to make good long-term decisions for the company. Any CEO has to make choices between

short and long-term. And there's no easy answer. There's no actual answer. It only emerges in retrospect

and whether you are right or wrong. And there's a lot of critiques because there's a lot of uncertainty

in our industry about how customers or regulations are going to change. But I really believe going

and seeing Genba is a Japanese term for going and seeing with your eyes. If you want to solve a

problem, I believe, do not make any big decision before you go to where the problem is most acute

or what you're trying to solve and learn with your eyes and your ears and talk to people before

you make any big decision. That's cool advice. I appreciate that. That sounds like that was from

your Toyota days. Yeah. Absolutely. I learned so much at Toyota. It's such an amazing company.

But it didn't apply that process to emotional products as much as it could have. And that's

the combination we want to get right here. World class durability, totally competitive cost. But

most of all like passionate products. So I'm very intense when we talk about concepting like

they're maverick. There's only two small unibody pickup trucks in the US. When I joined the industry,

we sold 800,000 Toyota pickup trucks the year I joined Toyota. And there's a huge market for entry

level pickups. But the Rangers and the Tacomas are all $40,000 vehicles now. So we came up with the

concept of taking the focus platform and making pickup truck and making it a hybrid with 40 miles

per gallon. But making the bed flexible so you can go buy a two by four or whatever from Home Depot

and kind of hack the back for not a lot of money and then don't over invest in tech on the inside of

the car to try to keep it really affordable around $30,000. That concept we developed in two years,

it was off a focus platform. It's a pickup truck. And it's our hottest selling vehicle in North

America. So I put a lot of pressure on my team because our product cycles are five to 10 years. And

so if you can get to a maverick before Toyota does or Nissan does, you have five year advantage.

And you know, I put a lot of pressure on our team to really make breakthroughs at the concept level

because I learned that it as a young man with the RX 300. It was really no competition.

Mercedes ML. That was it. And we had the market to ourselves for a long time. And that's what you

want to do. You want to innovate for the customer. Do it faster than your competition. Get that three

or four year advantage and then make sure the next one is even better. But don't make it heavier and

and more expensive like you do with XB. That was a mistake. You know, be true to the original concept.

Yeah, that's my philosophy. Put pressure where you're going to see a big difference as a company.

Interesting. I love he can talk sort of philosophically, but also weave in different products

that have kind of been milestones along the way. I think that's actually really interesting and cool.

We listed an interesting maverick at least one on BAT, which it may be a surprise. I mean,

it's such a newer innovative type of product, but it was like a crazy SEMA build or something.

No, okay. What it was. But we had one of those go through BAT recently. I like those. I like

that product quite quite a bit. An interesting topic that I'd love to hear your take on how it's

going to impact the car industry and maybe your point of view at Ford in particular.

As things automate and obviously your factories are so mechanized and different parts of the

business, but throughout the business more things are going to be automated in the future.

In the car business, what are the human parts, the most human components of Ford moving forward,

meaning is that the designers will always be people that are like things around their head or is it

I love this question. In the factory, like I toured some factories in Italy that are building

exotic stuff and there were young folks turning wrenches, you know, hand assembling engines,

and I was like, and that's that's nice, but that's not cost-effective at all, right? So I mean,

there's there's a bunch of parts, but what are going to be, you know, 10, 20, 30 years down the road?

The parts where super smart people are very required for a mobility or a car company like Ford.

What a great question. Well, first of all, you know, my answer to your question made

surprising people. So just to hang on for a second, hang with me for a second. The first one I

believe is that clay modelers are still going to be around and very busy. The form of an automobile

is a very subconscious emotional creation process and the clay modelers are very close. So how a

stamping machine stamps a panel, we have a certain amount of draw, a certain amount of, you know,

about 50 millimeters that we can play with. That's the only depth that we can play with. That's

the most you can do with steel aluminum, it's a little different. And the clay modelers so close,

human process of getting that close to a car, like kind of washing your car times 400,

the process of a designer and a clay modeling interacting with each other to get all of those

subconscious emotional shapes just right. I don't think it's going to change with AI or anything

because cars are emotional and it's a human process of creating one. That's one. Another one

would be the creativity of our software engineers. We can have all the AI create great software,

but in the end of the day, a human being has the creativity to make software feel super simple,

super complicated. And the logic in that, sure, you can automate some of it, but a lot of it is

just human judgment knowing how humans work. Right now, the inside of cars, not like your cell phone,

it's 400 times more complicated and there's safety critical systems that are coming up. Even

level two, level three autonomy, the car has to engage and disengage with the customer. That's a

much difficult problem to solve than your phone. And so having a software engineer that understands

how a human has to grab a hold of steering wheel or disengage when level three eyes off the road

happens on highway high speed autonomy. That is going to be a human skill. It's a human judgment

and we can build a software using AI, but there has to be a human that designs it for humans

because we have only so much cognitive ability. I think in the manufacturing process,

that is going to be more and more automated. We now have robots that go around our plants who

are just smelling for lubricant oil that's burning or listening for a bearing going out on conveyor.

You know, we're going to have more and more automation on our manufacturing, but the fact is,

you can't build an entire car at this point in time with robotics efficiently. The technology is

too expensive. And so this is going to sound interesting or surprising, but we're actually designing

the new manufacturing process for our skunk works, our affordable EV that's designed in California by

a bunch of, you know, basically non-forward people for the last two years. The vehicle will be coming

out in about a year and a half and we design the entire manufacturing process around our operators.

That means the human person building the vehicle. So some parts of it, you know, we're using text,

so we'll put in the computer right after paint because then it can evaluate whether connections are

made successfully. We don't need any camera systems to look over our operator's shoulder anymore

because the computer's put in so early in the process itself diagnoses whether it's being built

correctly or not. On that perspective, it's very automated. On the other perspective, we kit the

vehicle, put all the parts inside the vehicle and we build the front and the sides differently than

what we do today. Today we have a body shop. It makes the whole body. We take the doors out,

people can go in and out and kind of build the car. We don't think that's how car production

should be for a small vehicle. We want to open the car and we learned a lot from Tesla in this aspect

so that the operator can actually walk inside the car and if you close off the front, you can't do

that. So you have to open the car so that the operator can actually walk inside the car,

build it around them and then finish the front of the vehicle and attach it. That's a totally

different way, very human orientation because the human body works a certain way and there's

a lot of operations that we still can't do an automated way and maybe the weirdest one is putting

on a badge. You think it would be super automated and whatever. We take the best

people with tactile feel and the best kind of sense of space and those are the people to put

on badges and it's incredibly human process and when we've had robots do it, they get it right

for a thousand times and then they get it wrong and then you have to redo it and it's a really

bad process to redo. So there are actual jobs that I believe in the manufacturing system will

always be human doing it. Fascinating. I think that's interesting, just worldwide and industry

wide and business wide, thinking about where I talk about this with my young teenage kids about

what kind of jobs in the future are going to be really human and really valuable and really interesting

and they're different than when I was coming up and you were coming up, the types of roles are

different. So to hear you speak about that in such a large industrial operation as building cars

and designing cars, the clay one surprises me. All the other things, the badges thing is kind of

an interesting anecdote but all the other things make sense. The clay modeling, I would have thought

you would have said that that will, like clay models will go away and it would be some sort of

digital image that's flipped around in VR or whatever. You don't think so. No, I really don't

and it's not because I'm an old guy and I don't like new ideas. I love new ideas. It's probably one

thing that distinguishes me but I really believe that I learned this from Hill and Vaughn. When I sat

around at break at 10 o'clock in the morning with the people that I remember but I was in a body

guy. I was the interior guy and the body guy goes, hey, Farley, you're a new guy. Hey, tell me if

this panel's flat. I put my two fingers on the panel. I'm rubbing them back forth and he goes,

is that how you touch your girlfriend? I was like, no, no, no. I use my whole hand. He goes, yeah.

So and I put my hand on there and I could tell all these imperfections that I couldn't feel

when my fingers. And I say that story because you cannot believe how much a designer needs to know

about the stamping process and the variability of stamping over time to get a design right

and you can't believe how much a clay modeler knows about all of that.

And they can really help. I've just seen a relationship between a clay model and a designer

and also there's another reason too. Clay modelers are really honest. So when I go around the design

studio and I go, when you think of the new Bronco and it's like, it's awful, Mr. Farley, don't build

that. And then I'll go in the design studio and look like, here's the new Bronco. What do you

think? And I'll go, I don't like it. There's another reason because they get so close to the model.

It's like washing your car, but they don't wash the car. They build it centimeter by centimeter

by hand. And that process allows them to really as a human understand every aspect of the design.

And they're very honest. And so there are resource for us because like all humans,

we fall in love with our own ideas and a designer is going to go, this looks great, doesn't it?

Maybe not. It's great insight. I love hearing all about that. All the ins and outs. I haven't

followed up at all. I mean, working in Los Angeles for Phil Hill and his operation there.

That will resonate. I mean, some of this car design stuff and some of the industry stuff will resonate.

I have a couple of great stories about working there. Yeah. That one you just told was mostly PG-13.

I worked at a car race shop. And that was, I mean, it gets much more crazy than that.

It's salty. Yeah. It's salty. Certainly. But what stories could you share from there?

Con of my favorite one for Phil was like, people didn't realize Phil was just the most amazing

mechanical person I've ever met, actually. And I met a lot of incredible mechanical,

capable person. It surprises me that none of the cars he ever raised broke.

Or he had that reputation because I worked for him. Anyways, he goes, hey,

Farley, you know how to drive a Packard? I'm like, yeah, my grandfather was, you know,

knows how to, we restored a Packard anyway. So I knew how to drive Packard. He goes, hey,

we have a customer in Bill of Hills. We need you to drop off the car. So I drove the Packard over

to Bill of Hills from Santa Monica. I got there in the customer, very nice man, super wealthy. And he

goes, hey, Jim, I have a car in the back that I need you to deliver to Phil. And he said,

well, did you call Mr. Hill? And he goes, no, I haven't. But, you know, don't worry about it. I

know Phil really well. Just drive the car down there. So we go to his garage and it's a going.

And so before goings were like super expensive. But I knew it was like, whoa, I'd never seen one before.

And he had a bunch of bad gas in it. And he hadn't used it in like 20 years. And he goes, don't worry,

we'll get it started. Just drive it back down to Santa Monica. And I'm like, well, I feel a lot

better if you call Mr. Hill. And he goes, no, yeah, it'll be fine. Don't worry. So of course, I drive

in the parking lot thing smoking. It's running terribly. And Phil comes flying out of his office

downstairs. He always listen to opera, tell you an opera. And I can hear it going. And he comes,

he goes, what are you doing? And I go, well, the customer, he goes, what? I told you to call me anytime

a customer asked you to do something. You don't know how to do. I was like, I know Mr. Hill. I'm so

sorry. But like he was so insistent and he portrayed it like you would have no big deal. He goes,

you just drove a million dollar car with no insurance. Like don't ever do that again. And I said,

oh, I'm so sorry. He goes, open the boot and let's get this gas out of it. So I go over the boot

while he's still look watching me and the key breaks in the key cylinder. And like, oh my god.

And in the go wing, Lee Siskwan, you have to open the boot to fill up the gas. And so I'm holding

this key that's broken down the other half of his in the lock cylinder. And I look at him and he goes,

oh, wonderful. Go get a rope. And then at this point, like you know how the shops work, like people,

all the other guys are starting to come around to see this total goofball, Farley mess up this

whole situation. So they're all around the car. And I was like, the rope is he going to put a hang

a news and like a joke or something. So he gets a rope and he goes, go on the other side of the car.

And the lock cylinder had like this very nice little hook. Yeah, where you put your finger. And

he goes, put it around that hook. And then I want you on the count of three, we're both going to

pull as hard as we can. And I don't know how this guy knew this. The whole hood flexes and pops

right up. I'm like, how does the formula one world champion know that that we're not going to break

the sheet metal on this aluminum alloy million dollar car. So pops open. And of course, we get the

gas out. And I'm like, Phil, how did you even know to do that? He goes, yeah, that's the right thing

to do. So I was so amazed by someone who was so accomplished, but still had this kind of

six cents of how to work on a car. I love that experience with Phil. I never forgot it.

Never. That's a fantastic story. I really appreciate you relating that man. I can imagine that

moment, what a crazy moment. And busing off the key is such a classic. I'm on the bottom of the

bottom. It is for the lot of it anyway. Two strikes on my way to third strike for sure. And all

the guys in the shop are like, oh, you have no future. I'm sure they're looking. You're like,

that's the same guy. Oh my god. He was a marginal sewing guy. He was marginally good at sewing

alligators and frog interiors, which is what I did. There you go. Unbelievable. Well, I love it.

And we're pretty much at our time. You're busy. And I've got to get you go. And you did say

one thing that I'll have you maybe sign off with. You say you're working on these cars as winter

projects. You got the Pantera. Maybe you got the punch list on the Pantera. Maybe you didn't.

Does that mean you sell them right away and go get another one next winter? Or is the Pantera keeper

or are all these first people? It is such a good question. And I know all your listening

audience would respond to the same was like, I drive it. And then I decide. Like, is this a car?

And I have a rule. If I don't drive a car for six months, so I have a 37 Lincoln,

I have a bunch of race cars that I race. But the cars that I really love now, the cars that I own

now are the ones that I will never sell. So the ones I really love and they're actually not super

fancy. But I have a great mini Cooper S mid 60s. I'm working on. But the Pantera, I have to tell you,

it's a shocker to me. I drove it. I could not believe it. I drove it from Walkins Glen back to

here to Detroit. I got up to 160 miles an hour. It was comfortable. My security team was really

upset at me behind me. They were trying to get to me in an expedition. No chance. The suspension

is really compliant. I got the seat adjusted so I can fit. I'm six feet. It's, it's, you know,

it's very comfortable. There's a bunch of stuff to do on the car. And the cool thing about Pantera's

is you can change them subtly. The color of the wheels, you know, and people aren't upset. It's

like a cool community where they're okay with you changing the car, which I always like making my

car a little unique. And I think it's a keeper. I really do. I love the mid engine. It's a beautiful

design. It's a great car. And it's a forward deal. Like you can go the harbor freight and get stuff

to work. It doesn't require anything fancy. But it's a really beautiful, well-driving mid engine,

you know, powerful 60s, 70s Italian car. I mean, to me, it probably drives better than the Mura,

but I only spent 100 grand on it, not, you know, 3 million. Yeah, I'd love to hear the story

as it unfolds. And we'd love to hear what you pick up next on BAT. I'm always looking. Always

looking around. Ford Man 21. If you go up against me, please, please, I have no life outside of

Ford. So if you're going to bid against me, just please, if you really don't want the car,

let me have it, okay? Go easy on me. I love that. We've never had anybody plead to get

it's bidders out the podcast, but that's a good thing for them. Because your bidders are really good

and they're tough. And I've lost a lot of cars in the last thousand dollars. Drives me nuts.

All right. It's like, why are you depressed? I really wanted that car, but it went over my budget.

Yeah. Regrets bidder. Regret is bitter the day after auctions. That's for sure. Well, Jim,

thank you so much. Thank you for being part of BAT and everything we do. You're right in the

heart of our ethos of love and cars and love and getting involved and love.

Randy, you are awesome. You were so much fun to interview for my podcast. I love what you guys do.

And most of why I love your whole user community. I'm part of it. And you know, the only thing I would

ask is if all of you think about buying a Ford, just think about all the families to 180,000

people that you affect. You know, the profit and the IP states here in America, you know, we're all

trying to make it through life here with our kids and our family. And you know, when you buy Ford,

you really affect all of our lives positively. So thank you. I appreciate that. Don't want to give

me the platform for that message at all. It's good. It's a good message. It's nice to

part or something. That's why I'm here. Honest like that. Absolutely. That's why I'm here.

Well, thanks for your time. I hope we get to link up again at a racetrack or a car event somewhere.

And thanks for supporting us. And thanks to everybody out there for listening to Jim and me.

Have a little bit of fun talking about cars and join us for the next BAT podcast. Thank you, Randy.

Ford CEO Jim Farley

About this episode

De Tomaso Pantera

Request an Explanation

Want to learn more?

Help improve this episode

More from Bring a Trailer Podcast