GTD vs GT3; Lambo Temerario Drive; Lemons Buttonwillow; More

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Hey, everybody. Welcome to the show today. I am at Thunder Hill Raceway up in far, far northern California and Zack is at home. We don't like to do the remote shows, but I am in the middle of a 2.5 week trip. And so in this case, it was on the void of all we're doing performance car of the year. And I can talk about that a little bit on this show, but a lot was going on.

I did a thousand mile road trip before I got here,

but I want to hear about Zach Clapman's lemon's race

at where did you race?

But in Buffalo.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

The Ranchero team, Team Jeff Glocker, right?

Team Jeff Glocker and we had dose cars.

So we are, we are team Wavos Rancheros with the Ranchero

and we also had, so the owner of the Ranchero,

his dad had built an MGB GT,

but put a Buick V8 in it.

And I learned that they sold them,

they sold the, they sold these MGs in UK

with this V8 back in the day.

It sold out.

Oh, it was an optional engine

or it was like a custom job thing.

I think it was an optional engine.

It's a 215 cubic inch engine, tiny.

Oh, little.

So tiny, three and a half, what do you have for that?

Three and a half liter of heat, does it sound good?

Dude, it sounds like it's a 400 cubic inch

like a destruction machine.

It is, I don't, someone said it's louder than Ranchero.

My tonight is says otherwise, but it,

it's like, it sounds like a big dog

and then you open the door and you're like,

oh, look at that.

And it makes like 160 horsepower, it's torquy.

It's the, so we have two.

Imagine going through the trouble

of getting a V8 into a car only to end up

with so little power.

What a fucking shame.

I had the same thought except one,

it's like, it's true to this car.

So it's like on brand, we'll say.

The other thing though is that this engine

weighs 50 pounds less than the iron in line four

that came out of it.

It's the Miata problem because that in line four was iron

and this thing is an all aluminum block,

aluminum heads, aluminum everything.

So it's actually significantly lighter.

So it's, it is much quicker

and it's a good moment to machine.

It's just like on the streets,

it sounded like you're going fast

and then a gym walks you.

You know, and lemons, you never know it lemons.

Sometimes the cars look like garbage in their fast.

Sometimes they look fast in their garbage

and everything in between.

So I don't know if that gym was like tuned up or what,

but I'm pretty sure I got walked by a VR6.

Yeah.

Well, let's see, let me, let me screen share

because there's a picture that you should see

that will explain how the week started.

How do I do their screen?

Well, you did send me a picture of a car

that was rather than being on the track

was a part and being worked on.

So that, that set it up early in the weekend.

Right, well, there's, there's two parts to this story.

So let's see, you should be able to see stuff now.

Okay, great.

Yep, yep.

Oh, that's the MG.

It's got a bunch of speed holes in the hood.

They just cut those holes.

I mean, it's for a heat, yeah.

I mean, it does look from this angle, like rather good.

It's a kind of a pretty, is it a full coupe

or is it just off a hard top?

No, full coupe, which I've always wanted to drive.

One of these, I think they look great.

And of course, the one I drive is Frankenstein.

I think they've built it five or 10 years ago.

It's gone through a couple iterations.

It, like jumping ahead, it actually handles great.

The shock damping was really good

until one of the shocks decided to quit the race early,

which we could talk about.

It's very tight inside, like it's small even for me.

Glucker fits, but like your arms are banging into stuff.

It's a very small cockpit.

And steering feedback is good.

But I'll get ahead to, let me just show you this real quick.

So that looks like Jeff's Montero on a trailer.

Yeah, so I'm driving up there.

Please tell me the fucking ran,

Cheryl is towing the trailer.

No, it's being towed by the coolest,

best zombie apocalypse excursion in the world.

So unfortunately for Jeff, on the way up there,

he went to get gas off in Gorman, basically for people listening.

This was like an hour into a three hour drive

and he looks under the car

and there's lots of oil to quote him,

falling from the vehicle.

And too much oil to drive.

So Tim, the guy that owns the chair.

Did he just lose the drain plug or is this a catastrophic failure

of some kind?

Well, you know, we go pick up the car

and you got a bunch of mechanics at lemons.

We got two days where like we could probably fix

whatever's happening.

Let's be optimistic.

And then four guys dive under the hood to take a look

and they all pop back out, you know, like water polo players

out of the water and they go.

Front main seal.

So it's not like engine out.

Yeah, and they were willing and then they looked,

they did some research online to see how involved it is

and the answer is extremely.

So the, but we used AAA, like 200 mile limit towing

and see Jeff sent it back down to his house.

So not a great start to a weekend.

And then the joke was, well, Jeff's car sacrificed itself

to the maintenance gods.

So maybe the cars will run well all weekend.

Sure, sure.

That's like, that's, that's good like car guy math.

It's total car guy math, right?

Yeah, yeah.

So Saturday, I went out for this angle.

You just, Zach just pulled up a picture of this fucking MGB

at a front three quarter.

That's a tough looking little car.

Dude, it's such a good looking car for people

just doing it with MGB GT.

They got a great hat shape, very small car.

And it sits right.

Yeah, good stance.

Good, everything.

Most of them in stock, they would sit too high

and the wheels were too small.

This looks like the wheels had been plus one

and it's at the correct ride height.

And that really, really looks good.

I was so stoked.

What does it has?

It has drum brakes in the rear.

It's got a live axle.

It's got a TK5 trans just like the Ranchero,

which I think is becoming one of my favorite

trans missions with, with the right shift lever.

It's like you can shift it quicker than a Corvette,

but it feels really precise.

It is a great.

Yeah, that's a fox body gearbox.

Yeah, they're good.

Like with good bushings and stuff.

Yeah, I'm not trying to put like 800 horsepower through one.

If you've got like sub 300 horsepower,

a T5 is lovely.

I really liked it.

And both cars have the same one.

It felt familiar.

But each car has its little asterisk caveats.

How to drive the vehicle?

We'll say.

So a bunch of the guys on the team

have driven this car before,

and they're explaining to me,

I think the night before, they're like,

all right, so when you hit it,

when you get on the brakes,

you have to press the brakes twice.

And I go, what are you talking about?

And there's some, I don't remember

or understand the interaction that's happening,

but at the front, the fronts are discs, the rears are drums.

At the front, there's some sort of like spring plate

that catches.

And if you just press the brake pedal once,

you only activate the rear brakes.

So every time you brake, Matt Ferra,

on this course of 12 turns, whatever it is,

you have to double tap the brake pedal.

So you do like a quick press.

That's crazy.

I agree.

You do a quick press.

And then you do,

and then you brake the way you would normally brake and apply it.

So, that was insane.

Why would it anybody build a car like that?

Well, they ended up here,

and they've tried to fix it.

Lemons, for so many people,

it's like, you know, they build the thing all year or whatever,

they don't test it and then they go out and they try it

and it doesn't work.

So last time they ran this car,

the pistons were so strong that they somehow pressed

through the brake pad backing plate and the pad,

like cut holes in it, like Swiss cheese.

And that was all very scary.

So, you know, Tim's a good driver and he was out there

and he's like, all of a sudden I had no front brakes

and we learned why.

So, yeah, that's wild.

You know, they put a new plate thing on it

and now you have to do this double brake thing.

And it was so funny that all the guys in the team were like,

yeah, that's what you do.

You know, it's like, yeah, it's weird.

It's not great, but it's like kind of fun.

And yes, it is kind of fun.

You just accept that you have to do this.

And I went out first session Saturday.

I started the race, which is a really fun way

to do lemons because your speeds aren't super high yet

because there's a lot of traffic,

but you get to manage traffic and you pass a lot of people.

There's just a lot happening.

There's a lot of yellow flags happening also

which is gets a little annoying.

Yeah, I mean, someone always fucking does something

real stupid at the start.

And so the first thing is to avoid that,

but then it's like, you know,

it's mayhem for about four or five laps

until people settle into a pace.

Yeah, I think I call the first 30 minutes

getting to know the corner workers

because each corner worker gets to wave their yellow flag

at a different time.

There were so many cars going off,

but then like the herd fins out of it.

So I'm driving this thing and I'm doing the double tap

and it's like a silly gimmick, but it's working.

And it's got good grip except out of tight corners,

it's a open diff.

And so yes, it has no power, but the torque is like pretty good.

So you got to be really gentle on throttle.

And I'm sitting there like coming out of the S's

and just feeling the slip happen and letting off.

And I'm going McLaren deserves so much credit

for their electronics to make an open diff work.

So yeah, because this is the mechanical version.

And it's just one of the big hamstrings on this car.

Yeah, I mean, you're just really disappointed

with this car.

It started off looking so great.

And now it's got these stupid brakes and open diffs.

Well, I'm very quickly wanting,

not wanting to drive this thing before.

But there's only a few corners where the diff is an issue.

The rest of it, like the high speed corners,

it's awesome.

The shock damping, like I was taking the S's

and the back of the button will flat out,

hidden each side a little bit, it's not disturbed.

It was a really fun handling car.

And the team afterwards, like we all agreed,

like fixing the brake thing would be great.

The problem with the diff is to change the diff,

you then have to change like the rear braking,

it's as spacious as like there's a lot of knock-on effects

of changing that thing because this car is so old.

You can't just like, I mean, maybe you could buy

a really expensive diff to put in it,

but the owner was basically saying,

if I put a posi in the back, now I have to reconfigure

where the shocks go.

Now I have to reconfigure this, now I have to change that.

So that's why it's more complicated.

I mean, they're well aware that that's a problem,

but everything's going great.

I did like a two hour, 15 minutes stint,

and I think around two hours a long stint, wow.

I did two long stints each day, or one long stint each day.

And the only, so I'm managing this double brake system,

and I feel like I'm playing drums,

like double base type of situation with Lamb of God

or whatever, and I'm coming through bus stop,

which if people are listening, it's low right,

and then there's a left and another left that tightens.

And for some reason, this brake system

gets more upset under high speed, left hand corners.

And a double tap is not sufficient.

It needs a triple tap.

So I come at the bus stop, and I do the double thing,

and I have no front brakes,

and then I'm overcooking it,

and then I try to hit the brake again.

And then I just full on spin, but on, stay on the track.

I just, just come into a stop,

and I gotta tell you, one of the most unique views

I've ever had is looking out the passenger window,

and you just see race cars coming towards you,

and I go, oh, this is not good.

Oh, yeah, this is really bad.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No one hit me, I didn't get black flag,

because I stayed on the track,

which is an advantage of this tiny, tiny car.

But that was basically the end of my stint anyway,

and I went in and I was like, man, this thing is so fun,

but these brakes suck.

Like, yeah, I mean, that's just like,

like when, like, I like when cars are a little different,

you gotta do something different,

like the dumb little red knob on the banks,

and all that stuff,

but if you're talking about actual wheel to wheel racing,

going for it, we can't have to have pumping of brakes.

I mean, that's just, that's crazy shit.

I mean, I think it's more common at lemons than you think,

but I agree with you, it's like,

this is a fundamental safety system.

Yeah.

So hopefully they work out because the car is fun.

The owner, I mean, the whole team jelled so well,

it was so much fun.

And we all just accepted this kind of silly thing.

It's not gonna place in class,

but it's a riot to drive when it's going.

Oh, but okay.

So it wasn't that hot yet,

but the guy, he made two marks on the gauges,

on the oil temp and the water temp.

And he's like, if it gets up to yellow,

just, you know, back it down a bit,

shift early, yeah, yeah.

So it's getting really warm on the water side

through my whole stint.

And then I start up shifting really early,

and I'm cruising the whole track in fourth.

Oil comes down, water doesn't.

This story continues through the day,

and one of the other drivers,

it overheats basically well past where it should have been.

So that's when I sent you a photo

because we, after lots of diagnostic checks,

because everyone's just going,

let's check this before we decide it's a head gasket.

Let's check this before we decide it's a head gasket.

Well, we did all those diagnostic checks,

and wouldn't you know what the doctor says?

It's a head gasket.

So that's when I think I sent you this photo

and we start pulling out the part.

So we had to change the head gasket, starting it around.

I think 5 p.m.

I think we kind of ground it out

and kept adding water and stuff till four,

and then we realized it was just a fundamental problem.

We hadn't worked the heads or anything,

but yeah, so basically Jeff's sacrifice did not work.

So did that car get repaired in time

for the next day's race?

Yes, and then it ran the entire next day at about,

I think about 3 p.m. it came in a glucker drove it

and he comes in and he goes, feels bouncy.

Well, all right, let's take a look and we look under it

and one of the rear left shock is hanging down

from the top it come off.

So the owner of the car and myself spend like half an hour

just like threading this bolt and the nut looks messed up

and whatever and we torque this shit out of it,

we get it mounted back up with new hardware

and it goes back out.

And then I think about half an hour later,

we get a call that it feels weird again

and Ted, the owner, he pulls in and we look at it again

and now half the shock is gone.

So the bolt had backed out again

because the bottom half just fell out.

Well, I think that bottom half caught on like a curb.

He's like, I was like, I went over a curb

and I heard a sound or like I bet you did.

So we had half a shock.

So I think we didn't retire the car then

we were just like, oh, he's gonna be weird out there.

So man, I think it was described as being someone said

it's just unpredictable now,

so you don't wanna go too fast.

So I was very lucky.

I drove it first and it was good

and then everyone else had to drive it with these problems.

So you drove both, you got lucky in both stints.

You got to have two real stints

before real the real fucking shit went down, huh?

Yeah, I drove Ranchero.

Same thing, I opened the race on Sunday.

I did like two 20, two hour 20 minute stint

and then we actually ended up getting third in class.

So everyone drove long stints to just minimize

our driver changes.

And the Ranchero, they fixed the problems from Thunder Hill.

This truck fucks.

It is fast, it is so loud.

I have so much tonight is two days later

and it like it sticks well.

What are you guys using all year piece comms?

Yeah, I have foam earpiece comms,

but after this trip I'm gonna buy the custom molded things

because yeah, I was gonna say that's where you

did you have anything?

Well, I have the foam things that have the speaker in them,

which I thought were pretty good,

but my ears were ringing for like a full 40 hours

more than they normally do

and I immediately got home and started looking up

those custom molded things, they're expensive,

but this truck is like, it's like a dyno room

in a mailbox.

I mean, it's a good like high revving-ish

small block forward, but it's a tin can truck

and I just didn't realize, even with those things in

I drove for two hours straight and man,

my head was like messed up, so yeah.

That's not great, but it was fun, other than that.

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Dude, it was so fun.

And then the rear tires started getting hot

and the air expands.

And the thing went from being lightly oversteery

to oversteering everywhere.

By the end of the day,

we had like a totally bald rear tire.

And I think Tim, the owner, he finished the day

and he's like, man, this thing does go through tires.

And I was like, well, some of us might have been

over driving the vehicle a little bit.

Yeah.

I wanted to beat the fastest guy on our team.

He beat Jeff and I wanted to get close to him.

And I think I was just trying to figure out

how to make this non-ABS tin can stick.

And it was really hard to tell when you went

from like threshold breaking to sliding.

It was very hard to detect the lock up.

So that was a little tough.

But dude, it was so much fun.

It's got a new steering box.

Like it drove like a really fun, slightly taller Mustang.

And it was cool.

It was fast.

I got some fun video of like passing two people at once,

like splitting down between people.

On one straight away, Tim, the owner,

was watching from the tower.

And I guess I went four wide with three other cars

down the main straight.

And he said, he's watching me.

He goes, Zach makes mark decisions.

Makes mark decisions.

He's like four wide on the front straight.

Oh, shit.

So dude, it was a blast.

And it feels like vintage racing in the present

with that thing.

There are people out there in E36s and all manner of stuff.

Couple of rolling chicanes.

Some newbies out there.

I don't want to name the car they're in.

But when people are new and they follow the racing line

exactly and they have no awareness of what's around them,

try not to be that person.

You are in the way.

Yeah.

So it was an app.

You're going to go slow.

You really need to be in your mirrors

and pointing people by or whatever.

Putting yourself offline in places

where there's room to do that.

Yeah, well, the perfect example.

There was an old like a 60s fiat there.

And they stayed in the left side of the track.

The whole lap, they were out there all weekend.

They knew their place.

And they were just turning laps out of the way.

And they were predictable AF.

But this other car was like following.

Like someone had drawn them a map of the Absolute Apex line.

And they would refuse to deviate.

And it caused some interesting moments for everybody.

So it sucks.

Yeah.

Well, I'm glad that's fun though.

Cheap racing is very fun if your car works properly.

Yeah.

And I mean, the Ranchero had problems at Thunder Hill,

but it worked all weekend flawless.

We were in contention for second for a while.

And it was rad.

That car was really fun.

Cool.

That's a good time.

Nice.

Cool.

Well, that's a good weekend.

I like that very much.

And as Glocker since figured out what's wrong

with his Montero or no.

Well, I think he needs a new front main seal,

but it's just like, it's just expensive, you know.

They have to pull off his water pump.

Basically, they have pulled off the front of the motor.

They don't think they have to take the engine out, maybe.

But they have to take the grill off.

I think you have to take the cam out.

It didn't cause further notable damage though.

No, because it got towed everywhere.

So yeah.

All right, cool.

Sweet.

Well, I did the road and track experiences event.

It's called the seaside to Sierra.

We started in San Francisco.

We went to Sonoma Raceway.

Got a full day at Sonoma.

Some back roads out to Grass Valley, which

is a very cute little town in northern California.

And then we ended in Tahoe, which is fabulous.

The Ritz Carlton.

And I drove the new Audi RS3, with performance back.

There's a couple photos of it on my Instagram in Kailami,

green.

Kailami, green.

The RS3, this is such an interesting car,

because when I drove it on the launch in Spain,

I was like, this is awesome.

I love it.

And then I drove this green one here.

And I didn't love it so much.

It has, unlike the European cars,

it doesn't have the really good seats.

It's got the basic seats.

It has the square steering wheel

that I didn't like on the launch

and that I'd like even less now.

And I've found at Sonoma that when I

tried to drive it beyond the limit,

meaning like use the torque rear mode

to slide it around and stuff, it'll do it.

It does do it, but it doesn't do it predictably.

When I find when you have cars that use technology

to overcome physics, like this is an all-wheel drive car,

but it's a front wheel drive based all-wheel drive car,

which can never really behave like a rear-wheel drive car,

or even like a Subaru with true symmetrical all-wheel drive.

It uses tech to send power to the rear,

but because the motor is so boosted

and because there's so many like software and sensors,

like telling torque to go all over the place,

it doesn't do the same thing every time you do.

Ever I'm going around a course

and I'm trying to slide this corner the same way,

it doesn't respond to the same way to the same inputs each time.

And that was a little frustrating, and also I wasn't super stoked

on the ride.

I found it to be a little harsh.

Having said that, at the end of the trip,

we then got it here to Thunder Hill and in context

of the other sub-100,000 dollar offerings here at Peacote

at Thunder Hill, which is a John Cooper Works mini

and the Volkswagen Golf R. In context of those cars,

I liked it a lot better on this track.

I also found that in the lower speed corners of Thunder Hill West

versus the higher speed corners of Sonoma,

the torque rear mode and the slidey bits

did happen a little more predictably.

And so I'm starting to come back around to it,

maybe a little more.

And even after this big group test,

I'm driving it to Monterey to play golf with my dad

and then I'm driving it all the way home.

So I'm driving like another 1,000 miles in this thing

once this test is done.

So by the time we're done, I'll have driven like 2,500 miles

in this thing, which is pretty nuts to think about

from one press car.

What is the difference in, I guess,

its slide behavior or rear end behavior?

Do you think it's less predictable on the road

because you're not as committed to whatever that moment

is versus at the track, like in my misunderstanding?

Well, first off, I was not trying to slide it on the road.

I don't know what to say about that.

Yeah, I'm talking about at Sonoma Raceway

versus at Thunder Hill Raceway West.

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That's right, now back to the show.

So Noma is twice as long.

It's over three miles long.

It's got really big elevation and it's got really fast corners.

Thunder Hill is just under two miles long

and most of the corners where you would do a slide

are slower than the ones at Sonoma.

And so anyway, and the surface is different

and there's less elevation and so I don't know

the track is just, it just behaves a little differently here

than it did at the other place.

And so I find that interesting.

Ultimately, I think this is a really nice car

if you really need a car to do it all.

Summer, winter, race track, canyon, daily drive, road trip,

get your family around.

It really executes at a very high level.

It's fast, the brakes are great, the tech is not too overwhelming,

although I hate the haptic buttons on the steering wheel.

I hate the steering wheel period, the square steering wheel

and the buttons on it, just rip that out

and find a Q8 steering wheel.

And you're done, thank you, good night.

That's about the perfect steering wheel.

A Q8 or RS Q8 steering wheel.

But for, you know, $75,000, $80,000, it is a lot of car.

It's 180 mile an hour car.

Yeah, and so it's, and people love it on the street.

People are a lot of thumbs up, people are digging it.

So it does have a presence on the street.

So yeah, it's funny, as I keep driving it

and doing more things with if this car,

my opinion on it is like changing.

It's kind of why it's like, it's really important

to do these like big group tests.

It provides such like important context to cars.

I mean, I don't, I can't give away what, whatever,

what I don't know what the winner of performance car

of the year is going to be.

I have driven all the cars on the track now,

not everybody has their, they're still, they're still going.

And I'm going to go back and drive more in a little bit.

But, but, you know, when I, when you drive a car in isolation,

versus driving a car back to back with some of its competitors,

you start to realize that maybe things that you thought

about the car originally were not necessarily not accurate,

but without the context, we're not really complete thoughts.

And so, you know, we have the Mustang GTD here.

We have the Corvette ZR1 here.

We have the new Lamborghini Tamerario here.

And we've got the John Cooper Works Mini, the Golf R,

the RS3, we've got the AMG GT Pro.

We've got the 911 GT3 with a stick, comfort seats,

and steel brakes, which is interesting.

Well, I think I have a couple.

Yeah.

It's like when we drive cars in isolation,

it's kind of in a vacuum or the, the scale is in present,

I guess, so we can go, oh, the steering is great.

Then you drive other cars and you go,

oh, actually, that steering is better

because I was able to experience them back to back.

So maybe what I thought was great is actually good.

Right.

But I'll just give you one.

I spent a week and a half telling everybody

how good the Mustang GTD takes carbon.

How good the ride is in the track.

I said it to you over and over, didn't I?

Well, guess what?

Doesn't take them like a ZR1 does not even close.

Wow.

And it doesn't mean it's bad,

but what I thought was a beautiful riding car

in isolation compared with some other stuff.

Not actually, not actually.

And it doesn't mean slow,

it doesn't mean that it doesn't,

it still does a lot of things super, super well.

But yeah, I mean, I drove like four

really quick front engine cars yesterday

and then I got in the GT3, you know?

And like, I drove the GTD for, no,

I drove, excuse me, I got out of the Mercedes AMG

and into the GT3.

And the Mercedes, the GT Pro is much sharper

than the last AMG GT.

It has super light forged wheels,

it has a retune suspension, retune braking system.

Everything is much, much more focused

to be a better driver's car.

And those efforts are largely very successful.

And that car turns in really nicely

for a heavy front engine car,

really does turn in great.

And then you drive a GT3.

And you go, oh, no, actually,

I thought that was great, turn in.

But actually, the GT3 is, you know,

and I said to you the other day,

you know, and I actually wrote in my GTD review

for road and track that the car is 4,400 pounds

but does not feel it.

You can't feel that it's that heavy.

I'll tell you what,

if you'll do about 12 laps in a GT3,

and then you get in a GTD,

it is every fucking pound of 4,400 pounds.

Right.

Does that mean it's not very fast or very capable?

No.

But my calibrator, you know,

if I drove a Mustang dark horse to Chuck Walla

in order to lap a GTD.

So compared to feeling a dark horse,

it does not feel like it's much more heavy

than a regular Mustang, which it is.

Because of the technology,

they mask the weight of its, the weight gain of itself.

But compared to an actually light car,

like a GT3, which I believe is under 3,300 pounds,

it's, yeah, it's really obvious how heavy it is.

It's, and how huge.

It doesn't mean it's not awesome,

but it is enormous.

Yeah, it is enormous.

I mean, the GT3 is not a small vehicle either.

The GT3.

No, but in this company it does look small.

The GT3 parked next to a ZR1,

a GTD, the AMG Pro,

and not necessarily the Huracan,

or the Temerario, which is a smaller car,

but compared to some of those other ones,

the GT3 does seem small.

And they have it, it's white,

but it has these and dial graphics package on it.

It's actually like pretty slick looking,

I'm kind of into it.

So, I'll just give you like,

I don't know, you know, this is a group test

that's decided by group voting and lap times.

And I'm not driving the lap times.

Mike Austin is setting the lap times,

but Jeff Rose not here this year,

he's doing top here, that's why Mike Austin

is doing the lap times.

But that means I'm doing the slides.

So, I have been elected chief drifter

in absence of somebody from England.

They're very good at that.

Dude, that's rad, that's the dream.

That's my dream, at least.

That is actually, no, it is actually,

because like people read the lap times,

they see the lap times,

but they get to see me like,

you know, the smoky smoke.

Oh, me of the M5 touring,

which I forgot to mention earlier.

So, that's another one.

We had it in LA, kind of hated it.

Out here with a racetrack,

kind of a different story.

I mean, with a racetrack,

that thing fucking hauls the mail proper.

And I mean, you,

it's by far the best sliding car we have here.

And because it has PSS-5s and not like sticky-ass,

you know, fake slicks,

it gets mega smoky.

Once we're done recording this,

I'll post the clip on my Instagram.

They just fucking got out, can I?

It's not worth,

maybe I can actually pull it up now and just show it.

Can I?

Yeah, hit the share button.

Does that work?

And yeah, all right, we'll just, we'll try this.

Allow to share, oh, no, sorry.

I'm bad at this.

Share entire screen.

Is that how this works?

Oh boy.

I, I don't know what I just did,

but I don't know how to do it.

Oh, you just need to show a different window.

All right, whatever.

I'm, okay.

I'm gonna put it on Instagram

by the time everyone else can see this.

I'm sorry.

I'm not, I can't be trusted with this technology.

So anyway, it's a group test,

and we haven't driven the cars on the road yet.

So I haven't even made my opinion yet of all the cars.

I mean, there's cars that can be great on the track

and completely fall apart on the road,

which is what we saw, I don't know if it was last year

or the year, last year I think with the dark horse Mustang,

which was, it was so fun on the track

and then it was really just beat everybody up on the road.

So it was a doubt, there was that.

So, so that we're gonna see what happens later,

but I'll go through all the cars real quick

and just give you my quick vibes on them.

The John Cooper works many.

They have fully, I think, transitioned to this

being coming a luxury car.

I mean, it's automatic only, it's soft,

it has a glass roof, it has massage seats.

What?

And it does not, yeah, and it has no like real diff or in it.

So, you know, as a small pseudo luxury car,

it is reasonably successful,

but as a real sports car, I don't think,

I don't think that's it.

The new Golf R, which has what's called

a Euro style package on it, which is a dumb name

for an actually functional minus 80 pound light weighting kit.

Slick top, cloth manual seats, better wheels

and an Acro exhaust and after driving the Mini,

the fucking Golf feels like I'm a clarinet.

I mean, yeah, I haven't wanted to recommend the Golf R

to somebody in a long time,

but I think this Mark 8.5 with the Euro style,

I want to get one at home,

but I was very impressed with it on the track.

It offered a lot of what the RS3 offers

for a much cheaper price point,

and actually has a better ride than the RS3 as well,

although it's clearly not as fast.

But a really tight package,

and yeah, you can't get the manual with the Golf R anymore,

and that's a bummer because manuals are good,

but Volkswagen's manual wasn't that good.

I preferred this car with the DSG

or whatever they're calling their DCT now before, anyway.

We have just talked about the RS3.

The M5 touring, so many modes, so much tech,

I'm not particularly interested in it as a road car.

I, we talked about it a lot before,

it doesn't really do it for me on the road,

but it's fucking fast on the track.

The rear wheel drive mode is so much power to the rear wheels.

When I went out to start doing sliding things with it,

a DSC off, you don't want to put it in Sport Plus

because it makes it too much,

too sensitive on the throttle, so I put Sport,

put everything in the middle, but then off, right?

And when you, you can rotate it on the entry,

it's got really good brakes,

you could shift the weight forward,

rotate it on the entry when you're loaded up.

But what I tell you, Zach,

that in order to do a slide in this car,

we're talking about dry tarmac,

we're talking about good tires.

You need to modulate, initiate, and modulate

with somewhere between one and five percent throttle.

Any more insta-spit, insta-spit.

Yeah, I mean, if you want to,

if you want to drift with more throttle than that,

leave it in four-wheel drive.

You put in four-wheel drive Sport,

and if you want to fucking do one of these,

you can absolutely get angle and get crossed up on it.

But if you want big smoke, it's rear-wheel drive,

medium sensitivity, and the lightest amount of throttle

your right foot can manage.

And you can,

I mean, what the wheel speed was at that point.

Top of third gear.

It's all third gear.

You're not in set.

If you try and do a slide in second gear,

you're insta-spit.

It's all third gear,

because with the hybrid assist,

the battery comes into play as well.

And it helps torque fill at the bottom

so you can just get it in the third.

Yeah.

Silly, silly, silly car.

And once I figured out how little throttle it really took,

it became quite rewarding.

Temerario is the same.

Temerario is a five percent throttle position

in order to slide.

I wonder if that's a unique challenge

to hybrid assisted things

because they're like the hybrid system is trained

to add a ton of torque down low and weight to help

distract you while the turbo's good going.

So you're just at low throttle input.

You're getting a ton of electric torque.

And that's a big hard.

It depends how,

like for instance, Temerario,

which has a three motor hybrid system

with a V8 that revs to 10,

which is awesome.

Twin turbo V8, the revs to 10.

But in the same situations,

it's a second gear move in the Temerario

because you actually do need to have the revs up higher.

You can't boot it at 2,500 RPM

and have that big torque like you'd have in the M5.

Peak torque, I don't know the number,

but it's like 7,000 area-ish RPM.

It's very high.

So when you're running laps in the Temerario,

the, I don't think the revs go below five once.

Wow.

Yeah, that car is fucking something.

I mean, remember how awesome Revuelto was?

Yeah.

Take that same exact system,

put it in a smaller car.

That's fantastic.

That's a fucking monster.

It's like 907 horsepower

with the magic front end

that comes from having two motors up there.

It goes to 10.

It sounds fabulous.

I mean, it picks up,

I think, where Ferrari left off

in the V8 department.

The exhaust, my God, I put on.

It sounds really, really good.

It doesn't sound...

There's room on the table for the aftermarket

on the outside of the car.

It's not super loud outside the car.

Inside the car, it sounds great.

That's a good color.

That sort of blueish color.

The one we have here is like an Irish green

and it fucking rips.

It's really nice.

I will say that under breaking,

this car rotates fabulously.

Really, really great.

And it has a very neutral balance at the mid corner.

When you feed in throttle,

unless you set it up for a slide,

it will push a little bit.

But that's okay.

I think you can use that push sometimes.

And it does have...

I think it looks very nice above the midpoint,

but if you look at the front,

I think it's been to the front, Zach.

So the...

See this?

In this photo or rendering or whatever,

the entire lower mouth is just pretty much black here.

The... In reality, it's a very gray piece of plastic

with a lot of like sensors and stuff in it.

And it's like kind of full of things and busy.

And this is a...

This is a incredibly complimentary photo

or rendering of the car that I don't think represents

what the actual front-end looks like.

Well, it looks like the front has a huge black rectangle

and then it's flanked by these radar cruise control sensors.

Right.

And yeah, it's just gonna put this.

Look, I'm gonna show you this.

It's not ideal, but just up to the camera,

how this looks in real life.

There, look. There you go.

That, so see that?

Yeah.

That is not just an empty black thing.

That's actually quite busy.

Yeah, there's a lot of things and vents and things.

Yeah, I mean, it's a cleaner design than the Revolto,

which thought was...

I mean, it's an adventure door successor.

It's very aggressive, but this looks moral in line

with like the Lamborghini version of a 296

and I think the front end of the lights are closer to that.

So it's gonna be more subtle or a little more tame,

but if it's still ripped and that's perfect.

It would not keep me from purchasing this car

if I was in the market.

It was, it was, this car is a serious, serious piece

of hardware and I didn't really,

the whole, that's like the color of it in the green,

which is just fantastic.

Yeah, the sticker on this is $568,000.

What?

Yeah.

This one has the light weighting package,

which is 73 grand, a bunch of carbon.

The paint is 20K.

Yeah, and I mean, and there's a bunch of nickel and dimey,

you know, carbon this contrast stitch that blah, blah, blah,

everything is four figures.

Every option is four figures.

But I think between, look, I'm not saying it's just,

this is silly money.

This is money for people that are not us.

You know, it doesn't, what's the difference

if it's three or five, we can't fucking afford it.

You know what I mean, but, you know, what they,

when I saw the sticker and I went,

ah, I like, I literally like,

yeah, and they were like, what?

I was like, this is $568,000.

And they're like, yes, well, bless you.

I said, honestly, I was expecting maybe a four,

you know, I think the Huracans, you know,

started with a two, most sold with a three.

I figured this would be a four.

Wow, so, but you know, they were like,

well, you know, the increase in performance

and then, you know, the inflation

and, you know, I mean, I go, yeah, okay, I hear you,

but still fucking yikes.

It's a, well, that, you know,

everything's any more expensive like beef prices.

Everything is like, you know,

nearing all time highs or worse.

But that creeps up, but we go from like car model

to car model, so the jump, it's funny

that it's almost like more glaring to us in this job

because I go, why is this gone up $200,000?

Yeah, so it's a big number and apparently

they have a year and a half waiting list.

So the fuck do I know, you know,

this rear view that you've just pulled up

is pretty exceptional, honestly.

I mean, you see so much of the rear tire

when you're behind this car.

You really do.

I mean, it seems like it would need mud flaps

till, you know, in some states.

Yeah.

I'm truly looking at the back end.

I think we are seeing more than 50%

of the rear tire vertically.

You are really, yeah.

You're seeing where it goes beyond perpendicular

and starts to curve into the top.

You can see just that bit.

That's wild.

It's really crazy.

Yeah, but, and I've only had, you know,

I just, I did maybe 10 laps in the Temerario.

I haven't, I'm going to drive it some more

and drive it on the street.

I'm very excited.

I'm excited to get one in LA to try as well.

But fuck me, what a car.

I mean, it's the Revuelto, but smaller,

which is like awesome.

Yeah, that's a wild thing.

Yeah, cool.

So that's great.

GTD, I've talked about a lot.

The AMG, I did just talk about a little bit before.

It is much more driver-focused, the new AMG Pro.

I can't wait to try it on the street.

I think it's more of a trackable street car

than a streetable track car.

There's still some stuff about it I don't love.

It does not like being driven beyond the limit.

It gets all kinds of fucking unhappy if you try and slide it.

It is very difficult to turn off traction control all the way.

And even then, I'm not really sure

that it actually is all the way off.

Having said that makes a great sound.

The seats are great.

It looks beautiful.

Mercedes has done a hell of a job starting with that SL.

We drove two years ago and then

to end up where they are now.

And I think it's a, even though it's very expensive,

it's like 170 something thousand dollars.

I think you are much more than halfway

to a Bentley for less than half the price of a Bentley GT.

I don't love the touchscreen stuff I never have,

but driving dynamics, as long as you don't plan

to over drive the car for fun, then it's great.

It stops great, it turns in great.

It's got a great amount of grip.

It takes bumps really well.

The interior holds you nice and snug without being

like a real bucket seat.

A lot of great things about that car.

Was the Bentley speed better at the limit than the AMG?

Yeah, wow.

Yeah, it is.

It was.

I mean, the Bentley fucking drifts awesome.

That car does really big slides very effortlessly

in a way that was shocking and incredibly pleasing.

This won't do it.

This car is, no one has considered that somebody

might want to drive this beyond the limit.

And they're probably right.

Yeah, I mean, it's nobody except journalists

or people making videos.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm not saying that it can't be slid.

Chris Harris could probably figure out how maybe

Jethro could figure out how.

But it certainly didn't want to cooperate with me.

But as long as you're not intentionally trying to do that,

it was quite a lovely car.

The GT3, we've reviewed the new GT3.

It's just, you just, you drive it in all this other stuff.

It's got less than half the power of the ZR1.

You know, it's got just over half the power

of both the Lambo and the GTD.

It's an updated version of a car that's now five years old.

The engine goes back to 2014, although it's

been refined and improved and has made essentially

the same power output since 2014,

with an incremental increase in weight since then.

And it isn't a, quote, fancy car.

This car had manual cloth seats.

It's a stick shift.

It's got the basic climate control stuff.

I mean, by the standards of these other cars

with their trimotor hybrid stuff,

and this is a very basic car, the only naturally aspirated

engine in our test, the only stick shift car in our test,

and it is just the most joyous thing to use.

I mean, it's, I haven't seen the lap times of anything,

so I actually don't know how fast it went.

But my bet is it will overperform on the racetrack

in terms of a lap time versus a 500 horsepower output

compared to an 890 or 1,000 horsepower car.

It'll overperform this track, which is short.

We'll favor this type of car on a longer track.

The difference would be more pronounced.

But when I lapped everything yesterday,

I drove all the cars, and we finally finished at sunset.

It was time to drive back to the hotel, and I fuck.

Sneaky, sneaky.

When nobody was looking, went out and put my shit

in the GT3 and grabbed the key and put it in my fucking pocket,

so nobody else could take it.

I drove everything all day, and at the end of the thing

is like, I need a drive in that to the hotel

to fucking unwind my mind and make me feel good about the world.

And you drive it, and you go, like, all these other companies,

they're even Porsche.

They're chasing the next power level, the next this.

Porsche has to innovate just to stay the same.

The engine makes the same power output as last year's version,

but it's much, much cleaner.

The emissions are much, much cleaner than last year.

And it makes the same power output as last year,

but a little less torque, but they shorten the gear ratios

so that it actually feels quicker.

So they're doing all this.

They're running to stay in place.

But what ends up happening is the other cars

get more digital, more software defined.

This becomes such a wonderful thing to have

as a sort of permanence.

This car won't age like a computer will.

Right, they're lucky that this car can kind of exist

on its own.

Yes, they offer other cars.

But it's a very unique offering where, like, the M5,

that platform gets shared with the lower five series

and they want them to be fast.

And I think that kind of forces these manufacturers

to make all these hybrid turbo changes.

And also, well, it seems like it's probably easier to go,

OK, well, if we need more power next year than this year,

what do we do?

Add turbos.

Then what do we do next the year after that?

We add more boost.

And you can just keep adding more power

to sell the car to the person who needs the newest fastest

thing.

And Porsche knows that there's a strong enough market out there

that will buy the car that feels very similar,

because that's what we want.

And the C of cars that are constantly changing

and drifting away from a lot of the fundamentals

of driving joy, Porsche goes, yeah, we'll

keep selling that thing.

Makes sense, you know.

And it's just, you know, from the turn

in to the shifter feel, to the firmness of the brake pedal,

to the balance and the way it takes,

I mean, it just does everything right.

There's nothing about this car that it doesn't do right.

You know, it may not have torque because it doesn't have turbos.

And it may not be as fast around the track

because it only has six years and not eight.

And you have to shift them yourself and blah, blah, blah.

And I do not care one bit.

It is the kind of car where you buy one today

and you drive it for 20 years.

And you don't have the urge to upgrade to the next thing.

It's a real, real treat to get to lap

one of those around a track.

And so it's the GT3.

You drive it and you go, this is, I know.

Now I know why everybody wants one.

No one can get one.

And it's the thing that pretty much everyone who loves sports

cars says they're looking for.

Yeah, like exactly.

Pretty much.

And then, yeah.

And then, of course, the ZR1, which I was probably

more excited to try this week than anything else.

I haven't driven on the street yet.

Ironically, now after driving it,

and I don't want to take away anything

from any of the hard working people

who design and engineer this car.

But it's one of those cars I could have written the review of

without driving it.

It doesn't mean it's incredibly exciting.

It's incredibly fast.

But as Z06 was 2458, ZR1 is 2488.

It is that change.

There's more grip, more downforce.

MI capable of pushing the Z06 to its absolute limit

to the point where the incremental difference is

feelable, I am not.

And I think most of the chassis hardware

is the same between two cars.

There's obviously a lot of cooling and stuff

for the turbo motors.

And there's some more scoops and things.

But the steering feel, the braking feel, all of those things

are very, very similar between the Z06 and the ZR1,

at least as far as I don't have a Z06 right here to compare to.

I have to go to the last one I drove.

And to be honest, I'm sure that when we had Z06

at Performance Car of the Year, it was not at this track.

So I don't think we have a direct Z06 time

to compare to at this track.

Although we do have an e-ray time to compare to.

I don't know if that makes a difference.

But the point being is, on this two mile Thunder Hill West

track, there isn't a whole lot of difference in pace

or experience between 670 and 1080 horsepower.

I mean, yes, it's fucking poles.

It's an animal that pulls and it's a fabulous engine.

And it's a fabulous thing to use on a racetrack.

No matter what you're doing, I mean, grip, slip.

It does, really nice, very sticky, fabulous front end,

fabulous ride and handling and body control does everything well.

Too well.

You're like, it's one of those, like, you're

fucking, you're selling this to people.

That's crazy.

But at the same time, I'm not sure that on anything less

than an enormous racetrack, I could really go much quicker

because you're just, you're at the end of the fucking

straight so far.

Right, right, right.

And with in almost every mode, in every gear up to fourth,

it pulls timing if you go flat.

The PTM is amazing.

And it doesn't kill the driving experience.

But you don't have full power in that car

if there is any kind of system on until, like, fourth gear.

Right, so if the PTM is pulling all this power,

it's almost like, is PTM reducing your power down

to 0.6 levels to keep you on the track?

At which point, like you said, a lot of the turns

and short straightaways, you're actually

going the same as 0.6 until you get those big straights

that you would really get to make up the difference.

Sure.

Over 100 miles an hour, I'm sure the difference

is more pronounced.

There's only one place on this circuit where even a fast car

can go over 100 miles an hour.

And it's only like 120 or 125.

It's not a particularly long track, sorry, just isn't.

So at road America, yeah, more difference there for sure.

At this track, not really much difference, which is OK.

It's still a very exciting car.

It still fucking sounds great and goes fast

and has great dynamics all around, just like the 0.6 did.

And this one, that we're driving,

has all the go-fast shit on it and the carbon wheels.

And so it's over 200,000.

But just like when we drove the 0.6, you get the one

without all the big wings and without the carbon wheels

as a road car.

And you're under 200K with a hell of a car.

Really fucking hell of a car.

So it is in the long line of Corvette's

that overperformed for their price tag.

Yeah, that's so much power though.

I mean, that's, it is, it's an insane amount of power.

Yeah, it's wild.

And it's probably too much for most people.

But, yeah.

But, you know, it's because it's horsepower of a two-wheel drive.

Yeah.

And, but because it's a Chevy, it also,

you could also just use it as a car.

You know, you can, you can just, it can just be.

I drove it around like just around here

and we're going to drive it on the road.

But like, other than not having a trunk

because it now has a pass through up front like a GT3 RS,

other than that, you still have the back trunk,

which I guess is good.

GT3 RS doesn't have that.

You could just use it as a car.

I mean, every day proper, every day car.

And it will, because it has to meet that same durability

cycle of like the trucks and stuff.

You know, there's no such thing as a Chevy

that isn't a Chevy.

So, you just use it as a car, which is kind of awesome, you know?

And the top comes off on all of them.

Yeah, it offers a lot of crazy psychotic performance value

and value in general.

It's like, it comes with radar crews.

Top off, like, yeah, it's, it's all these features.

Does it, does it look like a Ferrari

or have the procedure stuff?

No, obviously, but it gives you, it takes a lot of good.

Yeah, I think this C8 body style, the more aggressive,

not necessarily with the wing, but the wider body work

and all that stuff.

Even the e-ray, it does make it look much better

than the earlier narrow body cars.

It fixes a lot.

I agree.

Yeah.

I know we have a lot of questions from people,

but I only have about five minutes before I have

to go back to work.

So, should we do one or two, or should we save them

for next time?

Is there anything that's particularly timely

for what we've talked about today?

If it's general stuff, I'm happy to save it

for the next show because I don't want to burn my track time.

This is so much driving this week.

This is a fucking crazy amount of driving.

And I love driving, and I love sports cars, but like, man,

I have been every single night putting the CBD cream

on my elbows just to keep the 10 to 90's at bay.

Anything?

There's nothing about Peacote or anything like that.

So, well, in that case, they can probably wait.

We appreciate you, Patrons, very much.

But I only had a limited time to do this gig today.

I have more tires to destroy at Thunder Hill West.

And we will be back with your regularly scheduled

smoking tire programming once we are back

in the studio next week.

And I certainly appreciate everyone's patience.

Please, if you haven't yet, check out the Zinger 21C video,

which was actually exact.

Did you know we were on trending?

We made it into trending with that.

We did?

We did.

We made it briefly onto trending.

So, it's been a very long time.

So that one's doing well.

Go check it out.

It's crazy.

We have more videos coming in the can as well.

But I really appreciate everyone's patience.

And once I get back to the office,

I will be much, much less stressed, I assure you.

Things have been getting done around here.

Thank you, everybody.

We love you.

See you later.

Bye.

Stop.

GTD vs GT3; Lambo Temerario Drive; Lemons Buttonwillow; More

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