Is Verstappen right about F1 2026? Hill and Herbert's verdict

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It's F1, Jim, but not as we know it.

Ha, ha, ha, ha.

Coming up on this episode of Stay On Track.

We used to burn rubber, now we're burning rubbish.

You make a mistake and it could be a very, very powerful loss of performance or even a race win.

I have my concerns about some drivers being able to cope with all of this.

Ha, ha, ha.

And I was sort of going, are you? Are you Israeli?

Or are you just doing your bit of sandbagging?

They have to sit on the grid for like ten seconds,

revving the nuts off the car to get the turbo to wind up.

I still understand lift and coast.

Lift and coast.

Lewis is like a Greyhound, doesn't he?

You show him a rabbit.

Yep.

He'll be off.

If there's no rabbit, then he doesn't know which way to go.

Yeah, well, welcome.

That's not it.

Great start.

Is that it?

Is that how we're going to start this one off?

Welcome.

Yes.

To.

Stay on track.

You got it.

We are back again for another episode.

Week to go, Johnny.

Some extra questions.

Yeah, I know it is.

And you're going to explain everything.

No, I'm not.

Because I know you've been studying all this stuff.

You've been going beyond what I was going to go to.

I wasn't bottom at maths in school for no reason.

No, no, no.

I'm very eager to that one as well.

Right.

New cars, seeing them on track, seeing them at testing.

What do you think?

Well, I think they're good.

I think it's going to be interesting.

I'm very positive.

Are you?

Yeah.

I think this is going to be one of the most...

Well, it's complicated.

It is multi-complicate.

Absolutely.

And so nobody really knows what's going to happen when the lights go out in Melbourne.

No.

I mean, it's just so many people making conjectures, some drivers saying, you know, this is not

what we want.

This is some drivers, I won't mention their names, are saying, yeah, and his good friend

Fernando saying that the chef could do a better job or something like that.

That chef could drive a car.

Sure.

I don't think they could.

Maybe we should put that to the test one day.

Yeah.

I think it would actually go very, very wrong.

But what do they mean?

What do they...

They're criticising it.

What do they mean?

I suppose what it is, with everything that's happened with the electrification side of

it, I think it's when they're going through certain corners and having to literally ease

off to make the region come into charge of batteries.

And to me, I'm sure you're the same.

Going through a fast corner actually was where you got the buzz.

But if you're taking that away because we're now sort of doing recharge, I think that is

where Max is alluding to is losing what he thought racing but Formula One more importantly

was all about.

And this is all because these new regulations have been brought in and I've got a question

which is why did they bring in these new regulations, the way they are, so that half

the power or 350 kilowatts versus 400 for the ICE, the internal combustion engine part.

So the power unit, everybody get this right in your head.

There's a thing called the power unit which combines an electric motor and a petrol driven

internal combustion engine and they both work together.

Now they've increased the size of the electric motor part of it by increasing the size of

the battery and the amount of the energy they can put through that.

So it matches virtually the internal combustion engine output.

So it's 50-50 roughly.

Electric motor and petrol motor.

Now when they invented the car back in 1883, the first car, the first car was electric.

Yes.

It was indeed.

Yeah.

And then, and also I found this out, it was a guy called Tom Parker, not the manager of

Elvis Presley because this is much later on or much earlier, but he invented the rechargeable

battery car back then and that was before the official actual Mr. Ben's invented the

petrol driven car.

So the electric car came first.

Anyway, after all these years we've finally got there, now we've got the two of them working

together.

I would imagine our battery technology has advanced a long way since the 1800s.

Considerably.

Yeah, they would lead acid batteries.

I mean, you'd have to have a truckload of them now to get to the middle of the road.

So it is incredible, the technology, it is going to be confusing and I have to take

my hat off to all the journalists, especially the ones here at the race, who have done a

sterling job of trying to get on top of this because they've got a learning curve on top

of...

We've all got a learning curve.

We've all got a learning curve and the fans are going to, the question is we don't want

to leave the fans behind, we don't want them soaking up the negative story, which is coming

out from some drivers that are saying this isn't what Formula One should be, but it's

also coming out from the teams because it's the teams who are now saying, oh, now we've

got issues, now we need to change the way the rules and it's how the turbo needs to

be spun up on the start, for example, but they knew about this a long, long time ago

when this whole process came about, I knew about the turbo lag that was going to be part

of it and where do you get turbo lag on the start?

So it was always something they were aware of, but of course with teams, they're always

trying to get an advantage.

So when they're trying to get an advantage, they're trying to think if we don't say anything

now, we will come out and we will be the better ones.

And who was good on the starts?

Ferrari.

Yes, the small turbos.

Fred Fassot was kind of slightly gloating a little bit because he's come out and said,

well, when we first decided to get rid of the MGEUH, the motor generator unit from the

heat, that means the exhaust pipe, okay, from the turbo, we no longer want to charge the

battery from the energy that comes out of the exhaust pipe, or the corollary of that

is that they can actually spin the turbo up using the electricity and the power, the

motor in there.

Now, that is a supercharger in effect, but they've got rid of that and the reason they

got rid of that was because the people they wanted to tempt into the sports Cadillac

and well, not necessarily Cadillac, but Audi definitely were saying this is too complicated

and too expensive.

And it's too expensive, so they got rid of it.

And at which point, I think Fred Fassot said, okay, well, now we're going to have to go

back to normal passive turbo that just works on the exhaust gases coming out.

Well, what do we know about turbos?

You get lag.

Now they didn't have lag, now they have lag.

So some took the decision, we're going to go for the monster turbo, the big one.

And the others went Ferrari, and who else have done that?

We don't know precisely about the size of the Ferrari we know, but mainly Ferrari seems

to have gone for a smaller one, which is easier to spin up.

And there was always, I remember in the 1980s, probably 85, 86, a certain Brazilian driver

in the old turbo era when they had massive, massive amount of turbo lag.

Do you remember when we drove those turbos for the first time, the Ford, the Cosworth?

I've had to go in the Renault and round my car.

I was well, right.

The first turbo, it was so funny because they were like two straight motors weren't they?

Nothing happened for ages.

And then suddenly all the 1000 horsepower came.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, and Senna used to be the only one who used to be blipping the throttle as he went

through the corner.

Why?

Yeah.

To spin up the turbo.

And that's what he did there.

So what's going to happen now with all this technology that we've got, Max complaining

about it, Fernando complaining about it, understand it, it's just going to be another

skill they're going to have to learn to adapt to this technology that we've got at the moment

to be able to go as fast as they possibly can, still get a thrill from driving it, but

actually be able to produce all the energy that they need to when they need to go into

the boost button, you know, when they try to do the overtaking, we've got the same thing

with the overtake button as well.

And, and it's how all that is going to have to be sort of a very new learning process

for them.

It's almost 180 degree different than what they've been used to, which is basically just

blasting into the corner, breaking as late as they can, hammering on the throttle, going

through all the high speed corners, flat out.

That's going to change.

It's got to be a very, very different test for them.

So it's another, it's a different challenge actually at the end.

Is it becoming like a computer game?

I mean, the steering wheel, the buttons, they're going to have to be pressing all over the

place.

Yes.

And the decision they're going to have to make, it's like a game, isn't it?

They've turned it into a game.

I think Max, I think Max is the head of the pack on that one, then, isn't he?

He's going to be used to that.

Well, he's on, he's used to that a lot.

Yeah.

So yes, there is, but you know, there's going to be help from the engineers through the

radio anyway.

So there's going to be a lot of understanding.

And I know when I've raced at Le Mans, you always get a booklet.

The team gives you to understand exactly what is on the steering wheel, how it works.

And then you've got to absorb that information and use it when you get in the car anyway.

Simply just looking at the car.

So we sat and we watched, we've got a chance to, it was well covered.

So you could watch Bahrain, the testing, you could see the cars, making mistakes and

also getting good laps in and so forth.

And I thought they looked good.

I think they looked, I know they sounded a bit CRISPR, a bit more crackly.

Yeah.

And they, they were nimble.

You could sense that they were a little bit, they're lighter by 30 kilos.

Yeah.

Unless you're a Williams, in which case, we won't go into that.

But anyway, so there's some of them are trying to get down to the weight limit still,

but others, they asked the 30 kilos lighter and then smaller, only a little bit.

Narrow, narrow.

Yeah.

And they look, they look not, I think they do.

And the way they were moving around on track, I thought was good.

It seemed to me that they were able to get a bit more yore on the car.

Well, I saw Esteban Ocon.

Don't know if you saw that.

Yes, I saw.

Fantastic.

Yeah, the power slide.

About a power slide and lame rubber and everything else.

Probably not exactly what you need to do for speed, but it's great.

It looks great for entertainment.

Indeed.

But they've got all this talk, haven't they?

Because it's incredible battery.

The suddenly you get this dose of massive amounts of energy

that has been stored up in this battery, which they can just dump.

Yes.

Coming out of corners.

So the cars get up to their cruising speed

very, very quickly, much quicker than last year's car.

So that's going to be.

Yeah, but they have a torque control mechanism in there anyway,

to try and control that torque so they don't get over wheel spin.

So I suppose it's a form of traction control.

But the only way I can explain the technology that's there at the moment.

So you've got the the MGU, you've also then got the inverter.

So your MGU is your legs.

OK, the inverter is your brain.

That computerized little process that feeds how the battery is charged.

It feeds everything from that torque control and everything else.

That is going to be the key to getting the best performance out of the car.

So the electronics and software is going to be the thing

that is going to give you the big, big advantage.

So it's not just purely the motor itself

because it does need that brain to be able to tell it what to what to do.

And it's got to be friendly for the driver

to be able to get them to maximise it as well.

Do you actually work in Formula E, don't you?

Yeah, we load the cars.

Yes.

And so you've been looking at how these electric pure electric cars operate.

Yes, but they can recharge their their battery under braking.

That's the only place they don't have.

And they don't have an internal combustion engine to like,

which is acting as a generator in effect, effect, partly.

But they don't have that.

So they have the only way they've got a charge that they stop when they start with.

Yeah.

And then it gets less and less and less as they go through the rest.

They still recharge that they can recharge on a break.

They've got four wheel drive.

That's it.

So they can they can recharge the front from the front.

As in we had when we had kinetic on the brakes

and that was generally through the front.

That isn't what we've got now.

We're Formula One.

It's only on the back.

So it's actually going to make the cars,

which I think initially why we saw a lot of cars having sort of braking issues

because when you're having the the the the the motor doing the regeneration,

it is doing your braking.

So you're not really touching the brake pedal

because the brake pedal is taking away that regen that you need from from the motor.

So that's where it is.

That's that change that Max.

Do you want an electric car?

You want to use the regenerative part, not the brakes,

because otherwise you you take away.

Yeah, yeah, you take it away.

And I know and people probably have their electric cars.

And I know when I've driven a couple of those,

it's actually quite fun on the road where you put it into this high region.

Yeah.

And you don't actually have to break a break.

I don't break at all.

Yes. So I drive.

That's exactly what these drivers are going to have to adapt themselves to.

I drive a full electric car on the road.

And I don't I don't you don't.

So do you have a hybrid?

No, I don't you don't you want just to go.

But Formula One to maintain its

performance, honestly, because the the the only way you can get the performance

that they get out of Formula One cars for 200 mile out 200 mile race

is to have a petrol engine in this.

But they've got different fuel now.

And this is all part of the drive for, you know,

reducing carbon output into the atmosphere carbon dioxide and also efficiency as well.

So they're superbly efficient.

Very. So that's working.

But they've also got different fuels now, haven't they?

Yeah. We used to say we used to burn rubber.

Now we're burning rubbish.

Yeah, some of the fuel is actually made out of rubbish, isn't it?

It's from waste.

So it's got to be 100 percent sustainable renewable from non fossil fuel.

Yeah. And it's funny that because that sort of almost has got lost

in all this electrification sort of situation that we've got.

The biofuel was sort of got lost.

And I thought that was actually to me the most exciting part of where the combustion

engine will have a life for a long, long time ahead.

And it's really down to that technology of biofuels that is driving them.

The objective was how do we get

vehicles that can perform and not be profligate with fossil fuels?

This is what it's all about.

Yes. And I get that.

So and it's incredible what they can do.

I mean, the technology that is vast expense and hours and hours of design work and so

forth. But this is the power unit thing is the astonishing thing.

But they've got they've got some other devices they've thrown in, which are the

the DRS has gone.

Yeah, ladies and gentlemen.

So the aerodynamic side of which a lot of the sport like, yeah,

the Venturi ground effect cars, they were a disaster.

Yeah. So now they've got they've gone back to kind of flat bottom type of thing.

But the the aero the way they've they change the aero on the cars is completely

different. So they now they can drop partly because they can't use drag these

air these wings through the air and not use up all the power they've got the

battery. So they've decided to make the cars slippery by front and rear.

And adjustable wings.

So there's no there's no DRS.

But on the straight, they'll they'll drop drag and also downforce.

But it makes cars very slippery.

And it looks cool, actually.

And it looks really cool the way they've done.

So the Ferrari one was an interesting one, wasn't it?

Where it did it sort of 360 flip.

Well, this has been an area of massive innovation and lots of teams.

But they've been given a set of regulations and they could have done it in different ways.

And all the teams have done it.

It seems to me in a different a different way to the others.

Yeah.

So the the flippy wing at the back, the trailing edge wing, some of them

actually rotate from the back of the wing and others rotate from the front wing.

Some of them rotate from the middle, which is what the Ferrari people have done.

Yeah. And it's normally again, there's a rule about the gap.

And it's normally I think the leading edge and that's the measurement.

But when you look at the Ferrari, that leading edge leading edge look to be much

bigger than everybody else is.

They actually have a huge, huge gap on it.

But there are rules to how big that gap is as well.

But they freaked everyone out, didn't they?

Because they spied around 180 degrees and it actually was facing upside down.

Yeah. And we don't know whether they're going to race with that or they were just

finding out what would happen if they did do that.

Sure. Yes.

But the biggest thing with that, I would have thought,

the biggest problem with that is the reattachment of the arrow to that wing.

If the thing is sort of moving around through the air like it is.

So it's going to be fascinating to see if they do use that.

And I love things like that.

I think it's so cool when Formula One comes up with these crazy ideas,

but they look good.

The the ingenuity of it and the thought process that go into it.

I think make it make it so exciting.

I remember the Das with Mercedes, the F-Tux loved all that.

And then it all gets banned.

You think, well, that's what if one's good about who's coming up

with these unbelievable sort of ideas.

And it's something that, yeah, hopefully that will be.

I think people will change is people's, the engineers ideas

and how they're going to get their their flap to work.

I think I definitely think those little tweaks are an attraction.

I think people come to Formula One to see the technology.

They come to see the ingenuity.

They come to see the the high end performance engineering,

which they come up with and the cleverness and so forth is part of the appeal of Formula One.

The only problem is what we've got to try and help here, Johnny,

is we've got to help people not get left behind when it comes to the technology.

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What are we going to get with this year's racing, the 26 regulations?

And the truth is, we don't know.

So Melbourne, you're going to have to get up at four in the morning to watch it live.

But I think this is going to be the most interesting start to season

for a very long time because nobody knows.

We watched the testing, we saw some teams are clearly in a better place than others.

But as far as putting them on the same track at the same time

and seeing a race evolve, unfold, that's a mixture of the two words.

Unvolved.

As far as seeing that happens, we have no idea what to expect.

No, no, we don't.

What I love about what we saw in Barcelona a little while we didn't actually see it

in Barcelona, what we heard about what was going on in Barcelona, of course,

then those Bahrain tests and then going to Melbourne is it's much easier

in Barcelona and Bahrain to actually get the energy into the battery

because of the characteristics of the track.

And Melbourne is going to explain that test.

Well, pretend I know nothing.

Yes, OK.

Well, you need to generate that energy.

You really realistically need.

And I'm going to get one.

Oh, well, you just play the idea.

Yeah, let me let me carry on.

As you crack through your biscuit.

No, no.

These tam-tams, I think.

These are tam-tams or whatever.

Other Australian biscuits.

That's all the ones available.

Yes.

From from a perspective of how do you get that energy?

Well, breaking is obviously one place where you can really generate a lot of energy.

We know about the going down the straight, lift and coast, which is lifting off early.

But then that's how it regens as well.

So in Bahrain, there's actually quite a few places

where you can break quite hard in Melbourne.

There's not many hard breaking places at all.

So it's going to be free-flowing, isn't it?

Very free-flowing.

These modern cars, especially the speed they go through.

You remember going through turn one in Australia with Melbourne?

You know, it was quite, it was a bit of a break.

And then it was a bit of a faff to get through it.

When now, yeah, it's they literally just sort of drop a gear.

And they're just turned three and turn whatever that one is, the end of the back straight.

Three for sure.

And that that's about it.

That's about it. Exactly.

As far as being on the brakes on any length of time.

On the brakes on any length of time, yeah, it's a generate electrical charge.

So this is right, guys, get this through your head.

There are certain circuits where there's not enough breaking to charge the battery.

Yeah, OK, this is what this scene is going to be all about.

This is going to be the lift and coast effect.

That's probably going to be more powerful in.

So some circuits, they're going to they were going to reduce

the amount of deployment per lap as well to try and help with this.

Yeah, certainly don't get people literally having to go down the start

and finish straight charging their battery up.

But that's where that skill set that we were talking about is really going to come in to.

And that's down to the driver or the engineers or the computer.

Both, isn't it? It's a bit about it's the computer.

Yes. But of course, the driver's got to be able to do it in the right place

at the right time to generate as much as he as he possibly can.

So they're all going to be very working very, very hard with the engineers

to make sure that they do it in the right places.

It would be down to actually in the right places at the same time.

So I think the kind of the Stappen sort of it's anti racing.

It's Formula E on steroids and the Alonso saying the chef could drive it.

Yeah. In those parts of the circuit, maybe they could, but not the rest of it.

No, no, no. And also as a whole.

So they've got they've got a job to do these drivers

and it's going to be juggling the resources they have in a clever way.

Perhaps with the help of the engineer saying, you do it now,

don't do it now over the radio, but they're going to have to work.

Think very quickly, because they could be in the slipstream of a car.

Yes. And then some front and then the car starts to slow down.

But they got the light come on.

Yes. Like brake lights.

Yeah. Effectively.

They'll be flashing. Yeah.

And to warn the driver behind that the car is not going to keep accelerating

at a certain, yeah, the same acceleration rate.

Yeah. And so watch out.

Don't be the multiple lights flashing. Yeah.

That's that's what they're into region.

I mean, it's a lot. It's a lot tactically yet.

I don't think they've although they've driven a lot of laps

and Mercedes did more laps than anyone in the rain.

But they haven't.

And you saw some of them doing kind of simulated racing.

They were following cars to see what would have to see what would happen.

Sure. You know, we were still in the darkest of what's going to happen at race.

But what was raised, you were going to say something.

No, no, no. Well, I'm worried I'm sorry.

Day one, I was trying to get a word in edgeways.

It's very difficult to you.

But the the the important thing as well from a driver,

you know this from a driver's perspective, the ones who have the biggest capacity

to absorb everything that's happened on the track, everything that's happened

when they're when they're when they're racing and then take on board

everything that they need to do to make sure they don't make a mistake.

You make a mistake and it could be a very, very powerful loss of performance

or even a race win, for example.

So I think the drivers that have got the biggest capacity

are probably in a very, very strong position.

Some are like Max, some are like Fernando, someone like Lewis.

I think they have that ability to sort of take on that extra

mental approach to absorbing all the information that's been thrown at them.

It's the spare mental capacity, isn't it?

So it's the Michael, they used to say the Schumacher was very good at that.

He had he had so much automatic.

His driving was so automatic, he didn't have to think about it.

And he had time to do other calculations.

I mean, Fernando, as we know, is able to think tactically during the race

and he doesn't have to think about driving, Max is pretty much the same.

Yeah. And I think it's getting rid of information that's a waste of time.

Have it to just free up, free up the space at the same time.

Sometimes people hang on to things that have happened in the past

that actually aren't going to be very, very useful.

It's best to just get rid of those stark of start afresh.

And then you have that, you know, better capacity

to absorb everything that's been thrown at you.

Yeah, I have my concerns about some drivers being able to cope with all of it.

Yeah, actually, good question.

Would you have liked to have been on the to be on the grid

in Melbourne with these cars?

With I see, I think, you see, I think I'm slightly cunning.

You're very cunning.

He's nice either way.

When we came through the younger formulas, he had a nickname Secret Squirrel

because you don't tell anyone anything.

There you go.

That could be of use to them.

But I think this is kind of interesting.

I find this formula interesting if it's going to be about wise use of resources.

It gives another approach.

It's another tactic you can employ to gain an advantage.

And I think that that was always something that I think was part of formula ones.

It was interesting, I think.

I mean, if you even if you talk about like Jackie Stewart's very light on the car

and he managed to get the thing to the end

because he didn't wear out things as much as another.

Yeah. And whereas some drivers are hard and you think,

well, they might be super quick, but they break in the car all the time.

And if they keep doing it, that's not very smart.

No.

Did we like the smart drivers?

I mean, and the Nicky Louders who would save their and the turbo eras when they didn't.

There was a lot of drivers when, oh, yeah, I've got loads of boosts.

I can just yeah.

And then they get to the end of the race and they're not going to get it

because they're going to run out of fuel. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, more fuel, more fuel, more fuel, full them.

Yes. Because and then Nicky would just go, I've got plenty left here.

Watch this. And that's part of the skill that's going to be very, very important this year.

That type of mentality of using only what you need to do.

And Jackie always used to say, I won my races in the slowest possible way.

And I think we'll be talking about that a lot during this season.

That who has been able to figure this out and drives smarter than the others.

Yeah. It's going to be a formula pretty much of that there.

There are some other issues which they're worried about safety on the start.

Yeah. And Andrea Stella mentioned this, but this is where the the start is also

where that turbo we talked about is going to become an issue because

well, because they don't have the electric motor running the turbo,

they have to sit on the grid for like 10 seconds,

revving the nuts off the car to get the turbo to wind up

so that they've got enough torque off the line.

Otherwise, at 1600 engine will produce so much horsepower

without if the turbo is not working, it produces a whole lot less.

And yes, the turbo can increase the horsepower of that engine considerably.

I'm not sure what the numbers are.

And I promise myself, I wouldn't get into too many numbers.

But let's say it's a, you know, it's not.

It's a big improvement on just a stormy normally aspirated 1600 engine.

Yeah. And so you need that off the line.

After 50 K, they're able to use the battery.

So the battery is not deployable until after 50 K.

Yeah. I understand it.

Yes. So they got the two stage start thing.

And you saw some of them doing the practice starts with the they got up to 50 K

and then suddenly the the battery thing would kick in.

Yeah. And they took it back out, Joe.

Yeah. But and that's where they're very, very

aware that that could be dangerous if there was a massive differential in speed.

Yeah. Of course, where, you know, someone is going to have that issue.

And then someone behind who's flat out and got absolutely the perfect

traction is going to come into effect.

And it's the same when they go lift and coast.

If somebody is on the boost and there's a lift, lift and coast happening at the same time.

I still understand lift and coast.

You don't. I mean, what they'd lift and coast.

Yeah. And so you lift off a load of energy.

So wait a minute, you're not breaking or electric car,

like your electric car on the road, where you don't use the break.

So they come off the they come off the throttle.

That's the lift and the the coast thing is nothing's happening for a bit.

No. Well, I just slow down and charge.

Oh, they're actually they're actually charging when they charge.

Yeah. So it's it's again, it's using all the different

ways of regenerating it.

And that goes down to the max thing at slow corners.

They're still going to be doing it at slow corners.

I have in the engine off,

wrenching, wrenching, revving the engine up very, very highly

and then doing the part throttle, which is going to be then recharging it

in the slow corners at the same time.

You lost me. Yeah.

Well, this is my problem.

I don't want I mean, I think what people want to know is

will when they turn on, will they see people racing?

Will they see people?

I mean, yes, a lot of the time we saw in the last set of regulations,

a lot of it was there was the talkers of tires because they couldn't push

as hard as they want to. So they'd have to go to a set speed.

So I was never sure quite how to interpret how hard they were pushing,

whether they were just going to a set limit that was imposed by the tire.

They were on. Yeah. I mean, I think I could pretty much work it out

when they were on the limit or not.

But but the point is people want to want to know when they're

the lights go out and off they go.

They're going as fast as they can.

Yeah. Or are they just sitting there going?

I'm going to lift in coast and have a nice nice afternoon.

After a couple of tea and everything that's not going to happen.

I'm telling you now, that's that's not going to happen.

It's going to be it's going to be a race.

It's just going to be there's bits in the race that are going to be.

We're going to be standing there going, well, what are they doing right now?

Are they super clipping or are they lifting coasting?

Yeah. And I don't I don't fully understand that yet.

I blow will promise you, ladies and gentlemen, I will get there

and I'll try to help you guys understand it.

If you understand it better than me already, then please tell me.

So are you a fan? Are you are you optimistic, pessimistic?

What what's your because I've heard you talk about this and you're saying

this isn't what it's supposed to be because of the accusation, if you like,

that that the drivers are going to have to spend time collecting electricity.

Well, as they go around, that's their job is to charge the battery up.

Yeah. Well, when we were doing Formula Three

and we had 150 horsepower, something like that, I probably had about 180 horsepower,

but I think you only had about 150.

Yeah, I thought you did.

And then I did my very first test of Bennington in 1987 at Brands Hatch.

So I went from 150 horsepower thinking this should be the most brutal,

hardest, fastest thing that I've ever driven in my life.

And I went out the pits and I went through Paddock

and I went down the hill as we go up to towards Druids.

And I went, right, let's see what this thing's got.

So I remember flooring it, nothing happened.

No, nothing happened at all.

Then there was sort of a wash and a whistle as the turbo started to spin up.

And then it fired itself at a thousand one hundred horsepower up the hill towards Druids.

And I had a massive smile on my face, ear to ear.

And then as I drove it, it was brutal under under acceleration.

It was brutal under braking and it was so damn fast.

And that was what I always expected it to be, that you pushed your limits every single inch.

It was a full on experience, full on experience.

You gave it the maximum and you got the maximum.

And I got the maximum from it.

And the whole idea was real from from that.

So that's where I then go, well, if we're sort of changing the technology

to be more green, it's a positive at the same time.

As I said, there is a different skill set that's needed.

But when I was coming through the formula, Formula Three, Formula 3000,

the place where it was the new technology was always developed was at Le Mans.

Le Mans was always a place where that that that was always known,

where you would go and develop some new Carlos Van Dango ideas for the for the future.

And Formula One was this pure, raw, fast pushing your limits to the to the very to the very edge.

And and I think that's what Max is sort of alluding to.

He wants he wants he wants the kind of no holes barred.

Hang the expense, hang the CO2 and stuff.

Let's just go racing with the fastest cars.

Now, I want to say that we did have that at one time where they

and they had refuelling and we had no limit on performance.

You could stop after twenty two laps and change your tires and get refueled.

And we found that was terrible for racing, because what happened is they

qualify at a pace and then they race at pretty much the same as qualified.

And so they all finish in the same order.

Yeah, because there's no there's no variance during the race.

And sometimes the overtaking of that short pit stop may be towards the end of the race.

I think Michael did it in Hungary.

I think one time he did about three or four pit stops.

Did have really short splashing dash towards the end, won the race.

But the overtake was done in the pits.

Well, actually on the circuit, either can we just say in the past before these

twenty six regulations, a lot of overtaking was done in the pits and also under DRS.

Yeah, as well.

Sure. Yes, under duress under DRS.

Sure. So that's gone.

But now we've got these flappy wings.

Yeah, still kind of overtake device, isn't it?

It's still an advocate. Yes, absolutely.

And there were times when they didn't have all that.

You know, I'm thinking about the the mansell area, the mid eights.

There was none of that.

And there was it was just you overtook under you got a draft.

You got in the draft of the car behind the car in front.

And we were just quicker off the corner or something.

And you could get closer during the corner.

And then you had to time it perfectly and get him under braking.

Yeah, going into the into the corner.

Yeah, exactly.

Now, I always remember like the sixes in your dad's era and then going to the 70s

where you had the stick shift and everyone said, ah, it was much better.

There was much more overtaken in the 60s and the 70s.

And most of that was because the human made a mistake.

Yeah, the shift and the overtake.

Yeah, I'm just purely because of the shift over blow up the engine.

You blow up the engine to root the gearbox.

There's a lot of stuff.

So the driver control input was significant.

And that's that's what.

So I think there is there is an element of that in this formula.

Yeah. So there's a there's a there's a workload

and there's a a bonus to the drivers who understand the technology

and the strategy of these cars.

Yeah. Yes.

So I think that's a good thing because then you'll still you'll find out

who the drivers are, who are worthy of being able to work it all out.

And also, I agree.

Now, I agree.

Yes, they will find a way of which we always have done,

even if the tire was degrading heavily.

Certain drivers, Alan Prost, the professor,

was always very good at feeling what he needed to do with those tires

to make them last so he could have a real push towards the end of the race.

And that's why he won his multiple world championship.

So so that skill set is still going to be be a very important factor.

I come back to the question about why are these regulations here?

They're they're first of all, they're a technical challenge for the teams.

Yeah. And this is this is they love that.

I mean, they love the technology.

Yeah. And that's where they can show their their genius.

Yeah.

So it is and it's part of the attraction of the sport.

So we've got that ingredient and we're we're seeing innovation

and a variety of different innovative solutions

which has been interesting for us.

And then we've got the challenge for the drivers.

We've got that. Yeah. Yeah.

The cars are still very quick and because the lap times weren't slow.

And then there's the entertainment thing.

I just don't I don't think that we're not.

I think we're going to be entertained.

No, I think that's the thing. Yes, that I agree.

I think entertainment is a big part of what modern day Formula One is all about.

And I think this would produce a lot of that,

because I think there are so many factors that are come to

are going to come into effect from the start to that one

all the way to through the race to the end of the race as well.

Because it's the one who thinks outside the box

potentially is going to sort of gain that advantage.

And then you're everyone else is going to be able to learn

maybe from seeing something else that another driver or team does.

And then that will only make it interesting,

I think, from the championship point of view.

But if we if we look at just from the carbon

footprint point of view and cars being non-polluting or whatever,

well, we don't use fossil fuels anymore.

We're going to be using these biofuels or the biofuel. Sure.

So why do we why can't we just run a V8 V10

engine normally aspirated or turbocharged and no battery?

I'm a bit like you.

I would say we've got the biofuel and the biofuels

seems to be able to do the job that we need a V8.

And, you know, a really noisy sound coming back would be a positive thing.

I don't know where that leads.

But the thing is these these are very, very efficient.

And I think ultimately that is that's got to be a consideration.

But a combustion engine has changed for the combustion engines.

We have the V8s and the V10s we had in the 90s.

They're so much more efficient nowadays, you know, what we have.

So so we always learn what you know, you do an old

remember the the old diesel and petrol cars where they only did about

20 miles to the gallon and you get a diesel that would do like 50 to 50.

You should go straight through the engine.

There's a lot of exhaustion there, most of it, didn't it?

And then they have found ways of making that work through the injectant,

the injections, injectors, injectors, for example.

So humans are very good at having a problem

and finding a way around that problem.

And that's what Formula One is very good at, does it at speed?

When a car manufacturer designs a car, it takes them like five years to develop the thing.

But we fix things yesterday.

And that's what motorsport, but Formula One, especially, is very, very good at.

And all the problems that maybe we saw in in in Bahrain

will probably become less of a less of a problem when we get to the first race in Melbourne.

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When we made a prediction in quality in Q1, yeah, what would be the gap front to back?

Yeah, and we might have got it wrong.

I think we've definitely seen or have got it wrong.

I think it wasn't more than two seconds, was it?

Looking more like Paul.

We might get the top 10, which we've been at maybe for a long time.

And there is a limit to how slow you can be, which is the 100% percent rule.

I don't think anyone's with you now.

I think we'll be fine with that.

And so the big round of applause goes to Cadillac because they've come in completely cold.

And they've got a competent car.

They've made a very solid foundation for themselves and they can go to the first race fully expecting to get the thing through.

Probably won't get out of Q1, fair to say.

But they're going to have time to settle and develop.

Yeah, they've arrived.

Yes, exactly.

So do you think Ferrari is leading the pack?

I think Ferrari are very interesting.

I think they seem to be quite happy where they are.

Lewis has been positive, hasn't he?

Lewis has been positive with his comments about how he's doing within the car, so that's a good thing.

Yeah, there wasn't any long faces, so I think he's happy with as far as the driving experience goes.

I think he seems to be liking it.

They're in there.

They're in the mix.

The top four.

But it's picking the winner from that.

And the feeling is, isn't it, that Mercedes have been hiding the light under a bushel?

Well, they've all been pointing fingers at each other to say that...

It's not us.

Yes, exactly.

We're not the ones that everybody should be getting at.

Yeah, it's typical.

Yes, typical.

And even I saw even George was sort of saying, oh no, no, no, it's the Red Bulls.

They look way ahead.

About a second, half a second to a second quicker than we are.

And you go, come on, that's not really the case.

But going back to Ferrari, did they show too much raw pace?

Was that everything they've got?

How many times we've been to Bahrain in pre-season testing and Ferrari have looked good?

All parts, I don't know for that matter.

Last year.

Yeah.

As well.

This is a slight worry with Ferrari is they kind of get themselves too far ahead too soon.

But anyway, it was a good performance.

They weren't breaking down all the time.

It was a nice gap.

They as well, difference.

As I said, the drivers looked happy driving the cars.

They did.

It doesn't mean anything to go by.

But, Max, when I was watching, I could see there were some purples that came up in the

first sector.

And then the second sector was not so strong.

And then I heard comments where, yeah, we're having problems in that second sector.

Yeah, we're really struggling, really struggling.

And I was sort of going, are you?

Are you Israeli?

Or are you just doing your bit of sandbagging?

You have to say what an amazing thing to have decided to do your own power unit.

I have to say, I agree.

Out of the blue, they're not a car manufacturer.

They're not engine manufacturer.

They're not.

They don't make road cars.

They decided, and that was Christian's decision, to go and make their own power unit.

Yeah.

Red Bull power unit.

Three years ago, was it?

It decided to do that.

It's been very impressive.

They poached a lot of people from Honda, I think.

I think Honda have lost a lot of talent.

And also from Mercedes, I think they poached a lot of good people to come and work.

Yeah, as you would.

But they've done it.

A lot of people are talking about how well the Red Bull power unit deploys.

That's right.

And gets out of the corners with a massive deployment of this battery.

That's, I think, a genuine difference that they have.

Yeah, I agree with that.

Now, it's been very impressive how they've been able to get this power unit and the whole

package actually so reliable as well.

It's not as if you can have something that's really good.

Incredible.

Just falls apart after that 10 laps.

They've been mighty impressive with the mileage of it.

Full mileage as well.

I know Hadjo, I think, had a few more issues than Max did, but they all seem to have certain

issues.

Mercedes, Ferrari, they all had their little window where it was a little bit difficult

to keep a car on the track.

But I think fundamentally they all did, all of them.

And as you said at the beginning, going back to Cadillac as well, they've achieved some

brilliant stuff with this technology that's been thrown at them.

I know they've known it for a couple of years, but of course, when you get it on track,

that's when things really do open your eyes to what needs to be solved.

And they looked like they were going to be a team who was going to suffer death by a

thousand cuts last year, didn't they?

I mean, Christian loves people leaving.

We leave.

Adrian.

And so that actually hasn't happened.

That collapse doesn't appear.

They look strong.

They look solid.

They look like they're able to survive that upheaval and reorganize.

And so they were looking like they could well be contenders.

But I think what we're going to get this season, I think from track to track, you're

probably going to see bigger differences, bigger swings between performance than we've

seen before.

So we've got Red Bull title contenders.

Under the radar.

Ferrari title contenders.

Yes, I think they're in it.

Under the radar title contenders, McLaren.

McLaren was very under the radar.

Now I thought it, but it was, they did some really good runs during those, those testing

in Bahrain.

So I think they're going to be probably a bit more of a surprise when we get to, to

Melbourne.

They're going to be right in it because they won last time and they've won the Constructors

Championship.

But they got the right momentum, but it's new regulations.

They don't have to develop their own power unit.

They're getting that sure.

Mercedes helps.

Where are they at then?

Mercedes.

Well, I think they're good.

I think they're very good.

I think they will be the car to beat.

I, I, is Kimmy running around the paddock squirting people with water pistols and stuff.

And, you know, he doesn't seem too, too worried about things.

No.

And George is playing the game and kept his mouth shut.

Mostly.

But he's just playing that game.

I like, I like that side of George where he's sort of saying, yeah, yeah, we're not quite

as good as we.

I think he's secretly very, very happy.

Yes.

Confident.

Very confident.

Yes.

So it's going to be fascinating to say, because we sort of don't really know, but I think

we have an inkling of our experiences of knowing who normally would show what they've

got.

Who's hiding more McLaren, hiding more than Mercedes or Mercedes hiding the most?

I think Mercedes are hiding more than most.

I agree with you.

Yeah.

From that point of view.

I think they've been, they've been too quiet.

Yeah.

Yes.

Very much.

Again, under the radar and Ferrari have probably, it always seems that they've shown too much.

I know you've always said about when you were driving, you always had a little bit of

extra in your pocket when you went into qualifying, for example.

And that was something that was very useful and very powerful because you could just do

that extra something when people were expecting it.

Why do I need to show what I do?

Yeah.

No, exactly.

Surprise them.

Yeah.

At the last minute.

Surprise is something that will probably come to everybody when we get into Melbourne.

So those are eight drivers, title contenders.

Do you think Lewis is a strong, if it's Ferrari, what's going to happen to Lewis versus Charles?

Well, the biggest thing has been over the last season for sure.

It was Charles who was always able really to pluck the best out of the Ferrari.

I know Lewis had that great race and sprint race in China, which he won.

Then they had the struggles during the race week and got disqualified because they weren't

wearing the floors out, but they never really were in contention at any point.

But Charles was always doing a slightly better job, but it was a more uncomfortable Lewis

and he was telling the world how uncomfortable he was with the car and it wasn't suited.

It suited him everything else.

That's changed.

Right.

Now it's changed.

Now we're going to have to see Kenny beat him.

And also his engineers moved on.

So there was some suspicion that the relationship wasn't that great.

There was a little breakdown in communication, but anyway, that guy's gone and Lewis has got.

Yeah, which sometimes is never a problem as long as they have the right mentality and

you sort of you click and get on.

Actually, it can be a very positive thing very, very quickly.

So from the vibes, they're very positive.

Happier Lewis.

Much, much quicker.

Could be a quicker Lewis.

A quicker Lewis.

But I think Charles is fired up as well.

He's not going to allow him through that door at all.

And he's been very good, I think, over his time at Ferrari, where he's played a very,

very clever game where he's sort of had control of his own.

I think Lewis is like a Greyhound though, isn't he?

You show him a rabbit.

Yeah.

He'll be off.

There's no rabbit.

Then he doesn't know which way to go.

But it's going to be interesting.

That dynamic between the two is going to be interesting on its own, to be honest.

They'll be in the mix.

Okay, so if they're in contention, that's going to be interesting to watch.

McLaren.

Lando.

Happy Boys.

World Champion.

Oscar didn't win the championship.

Psychologically.

I mean, he's been quite quiet and just getting on with it.

There was some story about Mark, his manager, not coming to so many races next year.

I don't know what's going on there.

Well, I think sometimes you grow as drivers and sometimes you need that manager there

or you need a father.

I remember that with Lewis, with Anthony, but then he sort of grew up and he wanted to

have his time where he could sort of do what he needed to do himself.

And I think he has matured in that way, but everybody matures in that way.

And I think Oscar is in a very similar situation.

He needed that support mechanism when he first came into Formula One.

And now he feels it's the right time for him to be able to, you know, make his own destiny

without having Mark around all the time.

Is it more difficult for him if they are contenders to think in terms of beating Lando?

Because I think with Lando, when he's confident, I think he's got the edge on Oscar.

Well, I've seen the very last year, wasn't it?

The consistency.

There was those little dips, but they both had little dips.

Lando had a smaller dip than Oscar.

And he didn't get too down about it, Lando, I thought.

He bounced back.

He was very strong, I thought.

That was impressive.

Yeah.

Anyway, so if it's them, I still think Oscar.

I think Lando's got the edge over Oscar in that package.

Well, one of them is going to be more fired up because he didn't win the championship last year.

Now that could be a very influential difference between the two ladies.

As long as it doesn't make you angry and bitter.

Absolutely.

I don't think so.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

Okay, no problem at all.

It's unbelievable.

But Oscar, Oscar's not like that.

I think that's not the Oscar.

That's not the Australian way, is it?

No, right.

George and Antonelli.

Yes.

Who's going to get the upper hand on that one if it's them?

It's George.

Well, I still think it's George because I think he has the right mentality for it.

I think he has the belief that's for sure.

But he's going to have to have a little look over his shoulder quite frequently because

I think Antonelli is only going to improve as he gets older.

He's still a youngster, still a teenager.

So he's going to be, he's going to be a threat.

The consistency is going to be the key as it always is, as you know.

I think George is so consistent last year.

Absolutely.

And that's where Antonelli didn't expect.

And if George gets a sniff, he'll want to make this one stick if he gets a chance.

You know, he's watched his mate Lando get a world championship.

I think he'll be hungry to do it.

Now, Red Bull, Red Bull, what do you think, Max or Isaac?

I felt sorry for Isaac.

Isaac didn't have the smoothest of tests.

And he always seemed to be the one who had more of a problem.

They did.

And it was great to see they did give him that chance to get in the car when he had a bit

of a bad morning session, for example, but there was still a gap.

It's Max's team, isn't it?

Yeah, it's Max's team.

But it's that gap difference between the two that is still there.

And that's still that sort of...

I don't know the whole story.

I don't know exactly what they did, of course, with the runs that they did.

But if you're wanting to go into a season, start the season, a new team, you want to

be a 10th or two behind, not over half a second.

I don't think Max is under any threat.

And if I was to be so presumptuous as to advise a team like Red Bull as to how to treat Isaac,

I would be giving him as much support as possible.

Yes.

So you need a good number two.

If he's a number two, you need to build that guy into, you know, don't crush him psychologically

because that would be a shame because I think he's incredibly talented and I think he's got

a lot to offer.

And that's why I say they gave him a chance at the test.

Yes, they did give him those chances when he had to go very well.

So that's really the top.

Yeah.

The top four.

Any outsiders do you think that could be sort of a surprise?

I think it's a pretty much the thinking is amongst the cognacente is that there is a

bit of a gap between these four teams at the rest.

There does.

And then there's a kind of, there's a fight for the middle.

Yeah.

Big strong fight for the middle.

Well, I think first to 10th, was it about two and a half seconds different?

In that, I mean.

Something like that.

Racing Bulls.

Pass.

Yeah.

Williams.

Yeah.

Audi was sort of, they sound good.

I think four teams.

It's the best sounding car.

Which one is?

The Audi.

Is it?

I saw a shot of the Audi.

It sounded brilliant.

It was loud.

Can you do an impression?

Really loud, eh?

Tiger.

It sounded really good.

So that just shows that you actually can make these cars sort of sound quite a bit louder.

So that's really good.

But performance, we're going to have to wait and see.

Very new.

You know, there's a lot of organizational changes that have gone on there.

We're going to have to see how that pans out.

So they're probably not really going to be in that mid-pack mix start.

No.

Okay.

Well, I think it's some interesting teams.

I think Alpin have been, now they've got River Renault power unit.

They've got a Mercedes power unit that might have kind of liberated them a little bit to

put what more in there.

Well, it should be a benefit to them.

It should be a benefit.

The Audi brave effort to start with, I think, is to come in.

But it's the power unit that's new, not the team in a way.

But I mean, they're building around that.

I mean, the Williams got off to a bit of a rocky start.

Rocky start, but actually ending quite, I feel quite good.

And there's maybe a lot more to come from them because if they know what they've done

wrong, they can fix it.

They know they get rid of some weight.

Yeah.

And Haas is a Ferrari customer car, but they're doing, they're doing really well.

So it's good.

Yeah.

Very good.

Very reliable.

Well, of course, the, how the mighty have fallen Aston Martin issue is, I mean, this

is the, I mean, Adrian's gone in there.

He's, he was, I remember him saying, someone asked him about their facility with regard

to the correlation between the wind tunnel and their computer simulated aerodynamics

and fluid dynamics and so forth.

And he said, they've got a lot of work to do there.

But I'll tell you what they've got.

Honda have got a lot more work to do than that.

Because they've had serious issues with their battery technology.

And we were talking about Red Bull power trains earlier and how they took a lot of stuff off.

Their deployment was so strong.

Honda were starting from scratch again.

Totally.

Yeah.

But you know what?

I remember when they came into Formula one, well, in my period anyway, with spirit, John

Wickham and his team, seven year Hanson was one of the drivers and they came back into

Formula one and they were so, so poor, so, so slow.

And then it took a time and then eventually they became the power.

I don't know why we need a lot with McLaren.

All right.

So that's where the power came back.

But in the spirit, it was terrible, terrible.

And Williams.

Yes.

Indeed.

I do remember that.

Yes.

Indeed.

Yeah.

And so forth.

And then they went away again.

They always get there.

Well, yeah.

And then they came back to with McLaren, struggled, really, really struggled.

Did they move to Red Bull?

Bang.

They were back again.

And it's so bizarre where they've gone back again and they're having to sort of start

behind the eight ball.

And they'll have the resources to fix this.

But it's going to take time and at the moment they think they had so much trouble.

They can't even charge their battery properly.

So to find out whether that chassis is any good.

I mean, Adrian's done his bit.

Now he can go and go on his yacht now.

Until they get the engine.

I know.

Yeah, I know.

I did text Lawrence when I heard Lance saying how bad it was.

I said, is it that bad?

And he went, yeah.

So it was like, oh boy.

Because I think we all expected with Adrian being there as well.

And even Fernando.

I feel sorry for Fernando because he thought this was going to be his chance.

His heart is going to be down.

I think it's definitely.

Well, he's almost talking about this is this is it.

Yeah, my chances.

I mean, to get to get any enthusiasm at his age to keep going.

And the car, if it's not even going to be anywhere near competitive yet.

Well, there was a lot of glove throwing going on from a stand.

Yeah.

Understandably.

Well, if there's any glove, that's okay.

If it was knives, then you've got to walk to the dark.

Maybe behind hammers.

Yeah, maybe.

Yeah.

Good.

So I hope that helped people get a handle on where where the situation is.

And we've got a form book as now roughly roughly, but within there is going to be a lot of battling.

Yeah.

For position.

Again, I think it's going to be fascinating because the next time we talk to it.

Each other.

And to our listeners will be after the race.

And we'll have some answers to chat about after that.

Who's going to win on the spot?

Come on.

What age is?

Hmm.

Okay.

Hmm.

Lewis Hamilton.

There you go.

Good on you.

Wish we're thinking perhaps.

But anyway, we'll see.

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Is Verstappen right about F1 2026? Hill and Herbert's verdict

About this episode

F1

turbo

lift and coast

internal combustion engine

power unit

electric motor

battery

electric car

Formula One

Ferrari

Le Mans

Esteban Ocon

Formula E

regeneration

regenerative braking

petrol engine

fuel efficiency

alternative fuels

horsepower

Brands Hatch

Ford Edge

pre-season testing

Mercedes

Cadillac

new regulations

World Champion

Audi

Williams

customer car

Haas

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