In a reverse grid race, the usual starting order gets flipped. That means drivers who would normally start near the back may start up front, so it’s harder to just cruise to the front.
Term
full start
A “full start” means the whole launch at the beginning of the race—how the car gets moving right away. Getting it right helps you gain position early.
A drive-thru penalty means you have to go through the pit lane and follow the speed limit, without stopping. It costs you time, which can drop you down the order.
The black-and-white flag is a warning from race control. It usually means the officials think there’s a problem or rule issue, and you may get a penalty if it continues.
The British Grand Prix is a major Formula 1 race in the UK, usually at Silverstone. Drivers and teams care a lot about it because it’s a big test of how fast the cars really are.
Track limits are the edges of the track you’re allowed to use. If you go over the line, race control can penalize you because it can make you faster by cutting corners.
The Red Bull Ring is an F1 race track in Austria. It’s known for being fun to drive and for places where drivers sometimes run close to the track boundaries.
Person
Fred Versailles
Fred Versailles is being quoted as the Ferrari team boss. He’s basically explaining why Leclerc’s results have varied, pointing to things like reliability and changes to the car.
Leclerc is a top Formula 1 driver, most associated with Ferrari. Here, the hosts are talking about how he’s been driving more consistently and closer to his best again.
The wheel shield is a small aerodynamic panel near the tire. If it fails, it can break off and become dangerous debris, which is why it can lead to a safety car.
Heavy braking means the track has places where you slow down very hard and often. It’s a big test of how well the car and tires handle stopping and turning at the same time.
Spa is a famous Formula 1 track in Belgium. The hosts are saying it’s a good place to judge Leclerc because it has more braking situations than the earlier venue.
Hungary is a Formula 1 race track that tends to be slower and more about braking and traction. The hosts think it’s a great place to see if Leclerc’s performance is really returning.
Concept
combination of parameters
In F1, a driver’s performance depends on a set of setup and driving variables—like braking points, traction, steering feel, and balance. The hosts describe searching for the right combination of these parameters so the car and the driver work together.
Term
break issue
They’re talking about a problem with braking. If your brakes aren’t working right, you can’t slow down as confidently, and you lose time right away.
Energy starvation means the car runs low on the extra power it can use from its hybrid system. When that runs out, the driver has less boost available, so it’s harder to go fast or make moves.
Team dynamic is basically how the two drivers and the team work together. It can affect who gets the best strategy calls and how smoothly the drivers cooperate or compete.
Brake material is basically what the brake pads are made of. In racing, the exact compound can change how well the brakes work and how consistently they perform lap after lap.
Formula Three is a stepping-stone series for young drivers. The idea is that drivers learn how to adapt to different cars early on, before reaching F1.
Term
setup philosophy
A car “setup” is the tuning choices made for how it drives. “Setup philosophy” means the overall plan for what the car should feel like—like whether it should turn in easily, stay stable under braking, or rotate more at corner exit.
Wings on an F1 car can be adjusted to change how much downforce they create. More downforce usually means more grip, while more drag can affect speed—so wing angles strongly influence how the car feels and performs.
The differential decides how power goes to the two drive wheels. In racing, adjusting it changes how the car grips and turns—particularly when you’re accelerating out of a corner.
Term
rear end controllability
This means how easy it is to keep the back of the car stable. If the rear is controllable, the car is less likely to suddenly slide or spin when you’re turning or accelerating.
Concept
confidence in the car
The host is describing how driver confidence can change performance even if the car’s hardware hasn’t dramatically changed. In F1, once a driver believes the car will behave as expected, they can push closer to the limit—often improving consistency and corner-exit traction.
Term
brake steering overlap
“Brake steering overlap” describes the overlap between braking and steering inputs where the car’s behavior is influenced by both simultaneously. In F1, that overlap can help the car rotate and turn more predictably, but it also requires precise control to avoid snapping the rear end.
Corner exit is what happens right as you leave a turn and start accelerating. If the car feels good on corner exit, the driver can press the throttle sooner and the car stays stable.
The throttle is how much engine power the driver asks for. More throttle means more acceleration, and here they’re saying Leclerc could use it confidently when leaving corners.
“Lewis” here is another top F1 driver. The discussion is about how his driving approach and setup preferences influence how Leclerc compares and adapts his own style.
Setup direction means the team’s plan for how to adjust the car so it drives the way the driver wants. It’s basically choosing what to change and in what direction to improve how the car feels.
Simulated direction is what computer modeling suggests you should do with the car setup. The idea here is that Hamilton wasn’t following the simulation as strictly and trusted what he felt instead.
Concept
reinvent the wheel
This phrase means not having to start from scratch. The hosts are saying Leclerc could keep using a working approach because the car was adjusted to match his preferences.
Concept
adapt that same philosophy to other tracks
This is about whether a good approach at one race track can work at different tracks too. Different circuits behave differently, so drivers and teams have to adjust their plan.
Social media is where people post opinions and react to results. The host is saying Leclerc tries to block that noise so it doesn’t mess with his focus.
Ferrari is a famous Formula 1 team with a huge fan base. If you drive for them, you’re under a lot of pressure because everyone watches and expects results.
IndyCar is a major open-wheel racing series in the U.S. The point here is that the spotlight and pressure at the top level exist in IndyCar too, not just in Formula 1.
In F1, tires aren’t just “rubber”—their grip changes with heat and track conditions. That’s why tire behavior can swing results even if the car is similar.
The podium in F1 is the top-three finish positions (1st, 2nd, 3rd) where drivers are awarded trophies. The host’s point is that even after a strong turnaround, drivers must keep pushing to avoid slipping out of those top spots.
A jumpstart means the driver moves off before the race start is officially allowed. It’s a mistake that can lead to penalties and can change how the rest of the race plays out.
The front wing helps push the front of the car onto the road. Changing its angle can change how the car feels in corners—whether it turns in too little or rotates too much.
Oversteer is when the back of the car slips more than the front. That can make the car feel twitchy or rotate too much in corners.
Place
Austria type circuit
This refers to the kind of track layout and characteristics seen at F1’s Austrian venue (commonly the Red Bull Ring). The point is that certain setups and driving styles can work better on tracks with specific corner types and braking/traction demands.
Power delivery is how the car’s power comes on when you press the throttle. Some setups feel smooth and controllable, while others feel abrupt or harder to manage.
Budapest here means the Hungaroring track in Hungary. It has a different layout than Spa, so it’s useful for checking whether a car’s strengths (or weaknesses) carry over.
The rear wing is the big spoiler on the back of an F1 car. It’s there to push the car down onto the track so the tires can grip better, particularly at high speed.
Turn-in is when you first start steering into the corner. That’s a critical moment because the car has to rotate correctly right away, and aero problems can make it go wrong instantly.
Downforce is the “suction” effect that makes the car press harder onto the road. More downforce usually means better grip, but if aero parts aren’t working right, the car can become unstable fast.
Yaw is the car twisting left or right around its center. If the car yaws too much, it can feel unstable and harder to control through a fast corner.
Term
rear let you down
“Rear let you down” means the back of the car doesn’t behave the way you expect—like it loses grip. At high speed, that can quickly turn into a dangerous situation.
A locking mechanism is the part that holds something firmly in position. In this case, it’s related to how the rear wing is secured. If it doesn’t lock correctly, the wing can behave unpredictably.
An aerodynamic problem is when the car’s shape and wings aren’t moving air the way they should. That can change how much grip the tires have. In F1, even small airflow issues can make the car suddenly feel wrong.
Airflow is the way air moves around the car’s surfaces, especially near the wings and bodywork. In F1, airflow quality directly affects downforce and drag, and problems like separation can cause the car to lose grip abruptly.
Reattaching is when the air flow that got disrupted manages to “stick back” to the surface again. If it doesn’t reattach, the wing may stop working the way it should, and the car can lose grip. That’s why it can feel like the car suddenly snaps away.
It means the back tires lose grip while braking and stop rolling normally. When that happens, the car can get unstable and spin or slide, which is dangerous at speed.
They’re talking about the rear wing that helps press the car down for grip. If it comes loose, the back of the car can suddenly lose traction and become unstable.
DRS is a system that changes the rear wing to reduce drag for a short time. It can help you go faster to pass, but it only works if the rear-wing mechanism moves properly.
Term
Macarena upside down wings
They’re talking about a new rear-wing design that’s shaped or mounted in an unusual, “inverted” way. The point is that it’s new enough that teams may still be learning how it behaves and how to keep it reliable.
The simulator is a computer model teams use to predict how the car will behave. Sometimes it matches reality, but sometimes it doesn’t—especially when conditions or car behavior are hard to model.
Silverstone is a famous F1 race track in the UK. Because it has lots of fast corners and straights, it can highlight whether a car is strong in speed and stability.
New rules mean the sport changes how cars are allowed to be built or how races are run. When that happens, teams have to relearn what works, and problems can show up more often.
Straight line speed is just how fast the car goes when the track is basically straight. In racing, a car can feel good in corners but still be slower on straights because of how it’s set up.
A pit lane start means the driver doesn’t start from the normal grid. They start from the pit lane, which usually puts them behind other cars and makes it harder to get a good result.
Car balance is how the car feels in corners—whether it wants to turn in nicely or push wide. Teams tune the setup so the car behaves the way the driver expects.
Topic
SC changes & Stroll's strange driving
The episode is also talking about safety-car moments and some odd driving from Lance Stroll. In this part, they shift to Verstappen and what his contract could mean after an incident.
Max Verstappen is a top Formula 1 race driver. Here, the hosts are talking about how his contract and championship standing could give him power to push Red Bull for changes.
Concept
championship come the summer break
They’re talking about where the driver stands in the season standings by the time the sport pauses for summer. That position matters here because it connects to what Verstappen can do with his contract.
A clause is a specific rule written into a contract. This one is described as giving Verstappen an option to leave if certain championship conditions aren’t met.
Company
Red Bull Management Head
The hosts are talking about Red Bull’s top decision-makers. The idea is that Verstappen’s contract could let him force negotiations with the team leadership.
The host is saying not all drivers have the same freedom to speak their mind. More successful or established drivers usually have more leverage, while others have to be more careful.
Valtteri is mentioned as a driver whose results depend heavily on how competitive his car is. The idea is that if the car isn’t capable of winning, it limits how much the driver can push for top results.
“Checo” refers to Sergio Pérez. The host is using him as an example of how a driver’s influence can depend on whether their car can realistically challenge for wins.
“World championships” means winning the top overall title in Formula 1. The host is saying drivers with more championships tend to have more power and freedom.
Lap cars are cars that have fallen behind the leaders by at least a lap. Race officials sometimes move them out of the way so the leaders can race each other without being constantly blocked.
A wave around is an official instruction during a safety-car situation that lets some cars rejoin in a better spot. The goal is to reduce traffic problems and keep the race order manageable.
Abu Dhabi 2021 was a controversial Formula 1 race where the final outcome was heavily influenced by late safety-car and restart decisions. Many people still talk about it when discussing how F1 should handle those situations.
A software glitch is basically a computer mistake. In racing, if the system that communicates race procedures has an error, it can change what teams think is going to happen next.
The Indy 500 is the Indianapolis 500, one of the biggest open-wheel races in the world. It’s known for long green-flag runs and dramatic late-race restarts, so changes to caution/red-flag procedures can create major strategic and entertainment swings.
A late yellow means a caution comes on very close to the finish. With only a few laps left, teams have fewer chances to recover and the restart becomes a big deal.
The “Abu Dhabi situation” is a famous late-race controversy from an F1 race in Abu Dhabi. People argued about whether the race-control calls were handled correctly.
Antonelli is an F1 driver being discussed for getting penalties and possibly stressing the car too much. The question is whether his approach is costing him reliability or results.
Toto is a top Mercedes team leader. The point here is that Mercedes might need to tell the driver to calm down if he’s causing penalties or stressing the car too much.
This is about races ending early because something breaks. It could be a normal mechanical part, or it could be the car’s hybrid engine system failing.
A pace advantage means one driver is usually faster than the others. Even if they’re quicker, they can still lose if the car breaks or they get penalties.
The undercut is when one driver pits earlier than the other to get onto fresh tires first. That lets them drive faster and potentially come out ahead when the other driver stops later.
A “tire advantage” means one car has fresher or better-performing tires than the other at a key moment. In F1, that can translate into stronger grip, faster lap times, and better braking/turn-in for overtakes late in the race.
LIVE
The Athletic
The race is on.
And after a tricky start to the season, Charlotte Clarke showed Ferrari what they were missing
as he returned to top form at Silverstone.
But how did he haul himself out of the hole he was trapped in, and does this mean Le Clarke
is now on top of this generation of cars?
I'm Ed Struer and joining me to answer those questions and many more are Ben Anderson and
special guest Conor Daly.
Well, Conor, let's start with you.
Lots of our listeners will be familiar with you as a regular Indy car, Indy 500 of course.
Some will remember you battling with Carlos Sainz and Daniel Kvyat in GP3 back in 2013.
I always remember you battling with Dmitri Sloranovich at Monaco.
So look that up if anyone out there doesn't remember, certain Conor remembers that particular
moment.
That name probably hasn't been mentioned in 10 years.
Your career went a little bit further, but you also went quite a long way in the air
on that particular day, but appearing on this podcast, this must be a career highlight up
with all those Indy 500 top 10s you've got.
This is it.
You guys are smart people.
So I'm excited to talk about it.
Talk about a little bit of motor racing for me the one was a great race over the weekend
to watch.
Although the finish I wasn't super excited about, but we'll get into that.
Yeah, the finish certainly wasn't a popular moment with quite a lot in the grandstands
in particular.
And Ben, you've tried to turn up with your racing trophies behind you, clinging on to
your collision with Max Verstappen early in a single-seater career to maintain your credibility.
Well, yeah, I'm certainly under threat as the most decorated and credible racing talent
on this podcast.
But we do have a category in common, Connor, because both you and I have raced in the now
defunct MRF challenge from India, which you won, I think, the season before I raced in
it.
So, yeah, remember days in India.
Great experience, honestly.
Like what an experience in life.
That was something I still look.
I still was in India about ready to race in Chennai.
I think when I got the call to do my first ever Indy car test, it was three in the morning
and Larry Foyt called me and said, hey, can you do this test?
Takuma Sato can't get in the country.
And I was like, well, I'm in India right now, but I'll be back on Monday.
So, that's a funny story.
Yeah, your jumpstart performance in that championship didn't let you and Indy car
test, did it, Ben?
Yeah.
Well, this is the thing.
Yeah.
So, my claim to fame, fame, I mean, it's not really fame, is it, the MRF challenge?
But claim to fame in that series is a reverse grid race where I led from Paul and was on
to win until they pulled me in with a black and white flag for a drive-thru for a full
start.
And I will say it was more microscopic than even Lewis Hamilton's full start in the British
Grand Prix.
That's wild.
You're just a cheat, Ben.
We know that.
I've seen you on track limits at the Red Bull Ring and that kind of thing.
We know what we're dealing with here.
These are not cheating trophies, Ed.
These are legitimate trophies.
Excellent.
Well, we'll get Connor to bring his trophies next time, but I think we might need a wider
angle camera than the one you've got to show them.
But we're going to talk F1 and we're going to talk about Charles Leclerc first, because
we talked about this, obviously, on the post-race podcast, but not a great length.
But Ben, Charles Leclerc, back on form in the British Grand Prix, can you confidently
say he's back now?
Well, it's a good question.
I think we can say probably it's his most impressive performance of the season so far,
probably his most complete performance.
He felt that he was strong in the first three races of the season.
Ferrari team boss, Fred Versailles, feels that he was always there and it was just a
few circumstantial things going against him, some unlucky unreliability, a lot of changes
on the car that he's had to have some time to get used to.
So I think we can be gently encouraged by what we saw from Leclerc, particularly the
consistency in the race.
He would have made life difficult for Kimmy Antonelli without the kind of wheel shield
failure thing that happened on the Merc that cooled off the chase and obviously the safety
car.
But it's only one track and it's a particular kind of track, energy staff track, fast track.
Not a lot of heavy braking in the brakes is one of the big things Leclerc has been battling
with.
So I'd like to really get a better sample set through Spa, which has a few more kind
of braking events and certainly Hungary, where we know it's a much slower track and
also one where Charles has been really impressive in the past.
I think if he nails it in Budapest, then we can say, OK, this is more like the Leclerc
of old.
And Conor, what's it like to be a driver in this situation where you are struggling,
you know you're not quite at one with the car, it's not doing what you want and you've
spent a number of races or tests or whatever trying to crack it and you're struggling and
you're just trying to find that it's not necessarily a magic button, but you're looking
for that combination of parameters that just gets everything in line in terms of the car
and how you're driving it.
Well, it's still crazy that it's been so long since he has one, right?
Like that that was such a staggering stat because you just you feel like Charles is
always at least in the fight or at least somewhat near the podium.
And then you saw Lewis Hamilton win before he did this year, which was very impressive,
you know what I mean?
And I was actually just a good sporting moment.
I thought I was pumped to see Lewis get that win.
But Ferrari have obviously stepped up their game too because, you know, they're giving
both their drivers now a chance to compete for wins more often than let's say they were.
But his frustration, Charles's frustration, definitely we see it and we hear it on the
radio, you know, the break issue at Monaco.
I mean, he's clearly there's a lot of pressure on him because he's like Ferrari's guy, right?
Like they've he's been the one who's been there now for a while, you know, re-signed
his contract.
Like they do believe in him for a reason.
He's definitely a very talented driver.
And so I'm sure this was a nice little just weight off his shoulders like, hey, all right,
we're back.
And maybe we can start some sort of maybe we can build some momentum into this.
The car is clearly improved.
They've definitely, you know, taken what Lewis and Charles want and be like, all right, we've
given them at least something to fight with now, which is which is very helpful because
Mercedes has almost been unbeatable, essentially, especially Kimmy Antonelli, but it was good
to see.
Yeah, I like to cease, you know, just a different winner.
Now, now it feels like there's maybe a better playing field for at least at least two of
the teams Ferrari and Mercedes to to go at it.
Yeah, I thought it was really good to see Ferrari win on a power track because Silverstone,
especially in this era with the energy starvation, very much that, but Connor, I'm kind of interested
in what you make of the team dynamic there between Lewis and and Charles, because it's
felt from what they've been saying over that weekend that through the sort of rocky patch,
if you like, since Monaco, the clerk adopting Hamilton's favoured brake material, obviously
bought the upgrades chassis and engine that the clerk is kind of having to live Hamilton
stamping his authority a little bit on the team.
And obviously, he's the most decorated F1 driver of all time, massive experience.
Has the clerk maybe had to eat a slice of humble pie here and kind of go, you know what,
I need to rather than just doing my own thing, drivers love to think about just doing their
own thing, focusing on themselves, I need to kind of pay attention to what Lewis is
doing here and how he's kind of working with the team and and draw some lessons.
Do you think he's kind of drawn someone that's powered his his victory at Silverstone?
Well, every driver is different, right?
So you have a different style.
You'll have small things that you want out of the car that that might be just suited
for you. But you also really benefit from having a good teammate, having someone who
is extremely fast, having someone who might get something else out of the car than than
you. And so if he is capable mentally to be like, All right, hey, look, this might not
be exactly how I want it. But it's clearly working for Lewis. You are able to make little
driving style adjustments. You know, this starts all the way back in Formula three.
If you go to the best team, I'll never forget going to ART, they're like, Yeah, you got
to drive this car the way it is, because it's fast. Like, All right, well, that's not how
I really wanted to do it. But at the end of the day, it was it was the right idea.
Like, I did need to make some adjustments. And I think it's really mature of Charles
to be able to be like, All right, hey, look, we're gonna, we're gonna work with the situation
we've got. We know it might meet not not ideal for him. Certainly at Monaco. I mean, he was
up in flames that break thing. I was blown away that that even happened. I still still
can't believe that that was what happened on a, you know, at the Monaco Grand Prix, you know,
very close to the end. So I think it's it's impressive for him to be able to make those
adjustments as a driver. And I don't necessarily see those two guys like hanging out like best
friends. But it is probably good that both of them are very, very skilled, some of the best in
the world. And then if they continue to do this, like winning back and forth, that's, I mean,
win win for Ferrari, two drivers that can win races.
What's very interesting about the way Leclerc has talked about this is, as you say, he's gone
through this period of adapting, trying to adapt, he's gone a little bit more in Lewis
Hamilton's direction. So he's worked through that over a few races. And then he seemed to have that
thing like what was after Friday talked about Silverstone, where he slightly changed his setup
philosophy. And he tried to get the car just fractionally more to how he wanted it as well.
And some things have changed, he wouldn't give away what it was. And it's so hard with these cars
to tell because you're not just talking about wing angles, you can be talking about diff settings
or that kind of thing. And things that are very much opaque, unless you're basically sat there in
the team in the engineering office, or they tell you about it, you will not know. But it does seem
to have given him that greater confidence in the car, it does seem to have given him sort of the
rear end controllability once because it snapped on him a few times, but he likes a responsive car,
he likes a fair bit of brake steering overlap into the corner, he likes to kind of live on the edge
at the corner exit. And that all seems to improve. But how much of that do you think will have been
a tangible change in the car? And how much do you think will have come on top from the confidence
being rebuilt? Because I imagine if you think you found something, you apply that setup to the car,
you go out and suddenly you have that must just pay you back in space because suddenly you feel
like you're driving again, not just sort of hanging onto the car. Well, I think we see this so often
in Formula One because, you know, Max's situation right now, right? Like Max is still the same driver
that won all those world championships. But he's struggling. And the car isn't what suits him
currently. And there's a little bit that you can do as a driver. But when Charles gets the
confidence from the car, that's everything. And so if he has found something that gives him the
ability to be the best driver that he can be, then, you know, that's a win-win for the team.
That means that he is happier. You know, he's going to be more confident doing what he does,
which is try to win races. And he is accomplishing that now. So it is very much a team effort in
this sport. Because again, the best drivers in the world, aka Max Verstappen, the car still has
to give him the ability to exercise his ability as one of the best in the world.
This is exactly what Leclerc was talking about on Sunday night after he'd won the race, that he had
the feeling in the car that he'd not had for quite a few races. Or I'd only had in patches,
whereas this time he had it fully there. It looked like, I mean, Edge, you touched on it.
Mainly it was the corner exit thing. Like he just seemed to have a lot more confidence to
boot the throttle and it would work and wouldn't cost him on the next straight. So whereas on Friday,
he was behind Lewis in that regard. But it also was kind of interesting that he, well, Lewis said,
you know, I've been going against the simulated direction a bit more, kind of trusting my instinct
a bit more. And Charles has been following my setup direction. But Charles also had kind of
gone right where I've got a choice. I either completely adjust my driving to copy Lewis
and build myself around the car, which you can do. But it's a hard process. All I try and bring
the car towards me, or I kind of meet in the middle, I feel like he's so happy because he's
been able to work with the engineers to get the car more to how he wants to drive on this
particular track. So he hasn't had to reinvent the wheel. But obviously the big test now is whether
he can adapt that same philosophy to other tracks and retain the same feeling that makes him so
impressive. One thing that kind of you're certainly uniquely placed in my house to talk about is
something that Leclerc brought up pretty much of his own volition. He said how important it was to
kind of shut out the outside outside noise, the narratives on social media about obviously,
you know what it's like people basically one minute you're a hero the next minute they think
you're useless. Ah, Charles Leclerc has been found out as if as if the past 10 years of his career
didn't happen. What is that like? Because it's very easy to say shut it all out. But it must be
quite hard to how easy is that to do when after a few bad races, you'll have a load of people just
saying you're just completely useless. Is there a risk if you start believing that even if you
know you kind of shouldn't because it must be quite hard to resist sometimes seeing it and
especially with the way social media works. If you look at it, you're going to get stuff
surfaced to you through no choice of your own. Look, I think I can't claim I'm not a current
formula one driver nor have I ever been right. I got to experience that world as a test driver
and be a part of the environment and see it and get to see the world in action and race with
a lot of the guys who are there now who are still good friends of mine. And so that world,
the formula one just atmosphere is very difficult to deal with with 100% from from what you can
see from from how you interact with some of the drivers now. And so I can't imagine what that's
like because guess what he also drives for Ferrari, which is probably one of the most popular teams
not the most popular team in the world. And with the most history. So that is a challenge.
You're only as good as your last race. So now he's a winner. So now everyone's going to be
celebrating until they get to the next one. And then if it continues to win, awesome, he's going
to be still happy. But people have short memories in this sport and champions adjust to whatever
they need to figure out with the car, with the team, with the environment that they're in.
But yeah, it's very difficult. We're obviously on the IndyCar side. It is not formula one,
of course, but it still is a category that would be at a top level. And yeah, it's tough to see
just you can force it out as much as you want. Yeah, it's like everyone I assume thinks it's
easy. Well, you don't have to look at that stuff or you don't have to see or hear any of that stuff.
And I was like, it's physically impossible. You live in the world and the world is essentially
powered by the internet and the media and and our sport needs the media and it needs the like
all of the sponsors, all the business of the sport. It does play a part in in our whole world of
how we actually cash checks to be race car drivers. The media is important. The social media world
is important. All that stuff does matter. So it's hard. And for him, I'm sure he's, you know,
at drivers are competitive within themselves. It doesn't matter what it is. It could be on the
pickleball court could be could be playing random sports like you're going to be competitive. But
when you're at your job and you're trying to be the best in the world, if not one of the best in
the world, you're going to put a lot of pressure on yourself. So the fact that he was able to lift
that, you know, weight off his back at least for a weekend, at least for a week until we get to the
next race, you know, that that's that's why I think that's why drivers continue to show up.
Because when you have that feeling of like, heck, yeah, we got it. Then, you know, that's, it's
like, it's like a sip of the addiction of racing. It's like, yes, this is why we do it. We love that
winning feeling. He said after the race that it's not clear if the war has been won. And he was
worse than our fats and battle. Yeah, exactly. So if you're in his position, obviously, just in
general, the fact you've been able to go out there and it was such a profound swing in terms of
performance, because as Lewis Hamilton said on race day, Leclerc was just quicker than him. So
this was a very decisive kind of turnaround, particularly with how it was in the sprint
component of the weekend. He was three tenths off in sprint quality. He was clearly a step
behind on race place as well. If you're in that position, would you be as confident as you can
be that? Yeah, actually, something real has been found here. I can expect to go to Spa,
a track where I've done well before and once again be at the level I want to.
I think this sport over any other sport is the most difficult to maintain success, unless you're
maxed for stopping in Red Bull through their period of time. But like in this sport, because of the
different variables, the tracks, the tires, the temperatures, the outside atmosphere, all the
things that can affect the car, you know, your own personal self, physicality, all that mental
side. There are so many factors that contribute to winning or contribute to being successful.
And, you know, I think this puts him in a great spot, but you never want to get off that top
step of the podium. So he's going to be working extra hard to be like, all right, I don't want to
get back to losing like that sucks. So it's obviously going to be a challenge. But I mean,
he's taken that first step. He's got back to the top step of the podium, which, you know, for a lot
of people, well, for the 21 other drivers, you know, they're all upset. Everyone's mad. There's
only one winner per weekend. So that's, you know, he gets to claim that victory. And now he wants
to just you never want to get out and get off that top step. There are two caveats that I would
place against the clerks extrapolation of Silverstone onto other places. I mean, yeah, it's going to
give him the confidence. That's a great starting point. And I don't know if this was this was
deliberate by Lewis as well. I'd like to the cynic in me would say it is because he's a
wily operator and very experienced, but in the press conference afterwards, obviously he was
asked about the microscopic jumpstart that I mentioned earlier. Without that, it's potentially
a different race because that obviously put him behind. Okay, it's a mistake. If you can call it
that for so wasn't prepared to call it a mistake. But nevertheless, it's something that happened.
It doesn't happen all the time, isn't likely to happen many times. So that kind of changes
the dynamic of the race a bit. But even within the race, Lewis said, well, you know, between
qualifying and the race, they're allowed to adjust like wing angles and stuff. They're not allowed
to change big setup items anymore because of park for me. But he said that he came off on the front
wing angle to protect the rear tires. He felt the car was too overstere and qualifying. And
char went the opposite way and added some wing angle. As Ed said, he likes the car to be super
reactive and quite pointy. And Lewis felt that that was a mistake. So he just had too much
understeer in the race compared to Leclerc. Again, it's a choice made on the setup. But if their
car is in a different window, then maybe Lewis has a stronger race and therefore the the turnaround
doesn't look quite so decisive. So it can it can swing on very small details that you can't
necessarily say right when we go to the next race or the race after that's locked in.
Yeah, I'd be very interested to see Leclerc going to an Austria type circuit again, where
it could be that he just be cooking the rears when it comes to race pace with that approach.
It gives the impression that there's something more more to it than that because he still had a
car that was in that direction in Austria, which is why you start thinking about all these these
diff settings and the power delivery and all of that kind of thing. So the great thing is about
racing season, we have a good sample set of tracks. So over the next few races and Spa and Budapest,
that's two pretty different tracks, a good chance for us to measure where he's really at.
Let's move on to Max Verstappen and Red Bull now, Connor. Verstappen had that off at Stowe during
the race. This issue with the rear wing, they have confirmed that there was a problem. Obviously,
Max Verstappen was pretty negative about it. Laura Mechiers, the team principal said it was a problem,
but it was slightly different to the one he'd had in Austria, but it's all in the same area.
It's basically something not working in the rear wing when you need that confidence in a
pretty quick corner. What's it like to be in that sort of situation where you've had a few
offs and it'll be in the back of your mind that there's a potential problem here and the car could
just that the rear could just go just like that when you turn in. There couldn't be a
worse place to have those things happen. Like the high speed corners with the speed that these
cars are carrying and the amount of downforce that's produced, you know, in our cars on the
IndyCar side, yeah, we have a little bit of entry oversteer. There's, you know, there's some movement,
a little bit of yaw with how much downforce and how, you know, how perfect the balance of all
these Formula One cars are. You don't have, there's no room for that type of instability and you see,
you saw that with Max, like he's just, he's never going to lift, right? He's never going to
not trust what he's about to do because that's his job. He's one of the best in the world. He's
going to turn into those high speed corners as fast as physically possible. But if you have the
rear let you down like that and something like that happens at a high, that becomes then dangerous
for him too because like he obviously didn't hit the wall at Silverstone, which is great. But
if that happens somewhere else, you know, and it happens at another corner where the wall is a
little bit closer, you know, that now that that puts him in danger. And if that's not his fault,
if it's not his mistake, if it's something on the car, I'd be upset too because you're just
trying to do your job. And if something happens, something gives up in the rear, the rear wing
has a bit of an issue. I see why he's frustrated because Max is a competitor. We know that. Max,
Max, and he's not afraid to say whatever he feels. And I love that about him because
we all get into this sport to win and you all get in this, we all get in this sport to be
the best that we can be. And Max has experienced that, right? He has been
literally the most dominant guy that we've seen in so long. And now it's not, it's not
there for him. And he, he didn't all of a sudden, like I mentioned earlier, didn't forget how to
drive. It's just the Red Bull is not in the window that he needs it to be. So that was kind of,
that was crazy to see. I really, watching the race and just seeing the car snap like that.
I was like, man, that, that is just something that you don't see that often. I feel like in
Formula 1 anymore, like the cars, unless something breaks or unless drivers make a massive error,
you really don't see some of the best just, just, oh no, it's, it's just gone. That's it.
And so yeah, I thought that was a crazy situation and he's clearly frustrated and it's understandable.
In a scenario like that, what are you pushing the team to do to answer those questions? Because
obviously they had the problem in Austria. They thought there was maybe a sort of mechanical
related problem to it as in something, the locking mechanism or whatever in the wing,
wasn't working properly. But there is the potential. This is an aerodynamic problem,
just the airflow, not reattaching in certain conditions when it's just not there. So what's
your, what's your tolerance for risk on that? Are you saying, look, just put the old rear wing on,
we can't trust this. It's spar. Or do you say, well, look, if you can show me, you really understand
and explain to me what you've done to make sure that doesn't happen again, we go with it. Is it
a high bar for you as a driver? That's really tough because I think as drivers, you have to be
prepared no matter what to go out there and give it your all. It doesn't, doesn't matter what the
situation is. It doesn't matter what wings are on the car. We, we do what we do at the highest level
because that's, there's no other option. If we thought about safety or thought about, you know,
maybe backing off a little bit because it might, it might lock the rears or some, you know, the,
the rear arrow might disconnect and I crash in a massive way. You never think about that. I don't,
I don't, I don't believe, but at some point if it continues to happen, Max is, Max is going to be
very upset because that, that is a pretty tremendous failure. I mean, that's, that's almost, almost as
bad as like having a brake failure into a, into a low speed corner because you're losing control
at a very high speed and that, that puts things in a very dangerous position for you. So I think
Max will never give up. He will never go out there and not give it everything he's got,
but for sure there has to be a little bit in the back of his head and his management team like,
Hey, we got to be concerned for our guy here a little bit. I think that's one of the biggest
elements of his frustration is the safety aspect, you know, that it's just like, it's,
he's fed up with being put into the gravel through no fault of his own two weekends in a row. And I
think added to that is the fact it's happening at Red Bull, a championship winning team with all
the resources, the pedigree. When DRS was a thing in Formula One, you would from time to time have
these reattachment airflow problems and it wouldn't shut properly and people be pitched into the,
I remember Marcus Eriksson having a massive shunt at Monza, I think in 2015 or 16 in the
Sauber for just this kind of thing. But that was a team that was struggling near the back of the
grid, known financial problems, not that it was acceptable, but it was kind of understandable
in the circumstances. And that was a mechanism that was well understood and had been in Formula
One for a good many years. So every so often from time to time, these things crop up. Obviously,
the rules are new and these Macarena upside down wings particularly are very new and maybe not
so well understood, but he will not be expecting a team with a caliber of Red Bull to be getting this
kind of thing so badly wrong that he's losing race results and potentially putting himself in danger.
Yeah, it's going to make it a very interesting question to be answered at Spa. And we might
know before the weekend, we might not know until we get there if they decide to go back on the rear
wing to the known quantity while they try and understand that problem or if they feel they've
got it sorted, but it's going to be a big talking point. So we'll certainly know
by the time Friday practice gets going. We've got a related question I'm going to throw at you
first, Ben, from the Race Members Club. This is from Evo Pakvis, who is again drawing on the
Verstappen situation and says a big part of Laura Mechiers as a rival as team boss was the fact
that Red Bull started listening to Verstappen more as opposed to what the simulator says,
a furious Verstappen after the Silverstone race bluntly said ask the team when he was pushed
about certain choices. So the new engine for the race that he wanted but didn't get.
Has the listening stopped or is there more at play?
I think there's more at play. I don't think the listening has stopped. I think Red Bull is well
aware how much it depends on Max and they need to listen to him more than they ever have done,
probably, especially while they're trying to work through a new set of rules and a difficult
car and a new set of problems. But I think in the case of Silverstone specifically,
Lauren, Mechiers made the point after the race that, yes, Max was upset all weekend that he had a
small difference in straight line speed compared to his Hatchers car. It was there in the data.
It wasn't massive, but I think no one's disputing it. It was there. But Mechiers made the point that
if we change the engine, it's a pit lane start. Remember before the rear wing failure happened,
Max was running in third place. He was on for a podium. He looked pretty comfortable.
His pace was pretty strong throughout the race, I would say. And Mechiers was saying,
if we start from the pit lane, I don't think we end up in that same position before the inevitable
happened. So I think in this one specific case, even though Max was unhappy and he wasn't just
unhappy with the engine, he's unhappy with the car balance, he was just generally annoyed that
they've gone from one track, Austria, where he's suddenly in the victory fight to the next weekend
with ostensibly the same car not being in that fight at all. I think Mechiers was right and the
team was right to overrule him because he was fine in the race. He was on for the podium if
things had played out normally. Even though he's Max Verstappen and as Conor said, he's the best in
the world or certainly one of them. I don't see how he gets that Red Bull from the pit lane to third
place with a new engine. Collin, as you're reading this, this is just the normal kind of
Max Verstappen team dynamic. He's always frank if there's things he's not happy about. Do you see
any signs that there's any slight erosion of trust in any way there? That's a great question, honestly.
I think in the world of Formula One, most people realize that the driver will only be able to go
as fast as the car will let him go. You're not going to see Carlos Sainz in the Williams just
because he's a better driver win all of a sudden. It's like, no, he's going to need that team to
give him the car to be able to win like he did at Ferrari. Max got so used to winning and winning
all the time. That has to be a mental battle because the guy loves just driving. I like Max
a lot. I've known Max for a long time and I feel like he's just one of the most original
guys who just loves driving that I've ever met and he wants to drive better than anyone else.
I think that's always going to be frustrating, but the sport still is always a team effort.
You can't have one element without the other. You have to work together and there will be a point
where I'm sure the team guys or guys and girls at the factory, everyone's going to be working
towards the same goal of giving him the ability to do what he knows how to do, but racing is hard.
This sport is very difficult. There are also a bunch of other teams who are trying to do the
exact same thing with also very talented drivers. It's a tough one. It's why we watch the sport.
It's why we support it. It's why millions of people watch all around the world because every
weekend you're like, who's it going to be this weekend? Who made the best choices? Who's going
to be the best driver on that day with the best team? At some point, there's going to be a controlling
of the frustration maybe or a conversation that's had with the whole group and be like,
all right, look, we know this is really tough, but we promise we're going to do this. We promise
we're going to do that. We're going to give you this in the future or here's the next set of
upgrades that we've got that we think are going to be solving your problems. It's probably tough.
I would assume to go from where Max was to where Max is now.
And of course, Ben, there's all of that question mark about the future with Max
Verstappen. It's such a rumbling on. It's probably in Max's interest to have that rumbling on a little
bit as well. So it's about the off track as well as the on track, isn't it?
Yeah, absolutely. I think there's implied in the question is, are they just ignoring him now
because he didn't get his way in this specific incident in the Grand Prix? And I think, as I
say, that particular circumstance was the right call on balance. But the broader picture is,
I mean, Max, as ever, he has that team over a barrel. They're not in a situation where they
have ready made Max Verstappen replacement drivers to plug in. They're not in a situation where the
car is good enough that they can plug in even a slightly lesser driver and expect really good
results. They need him. He knows that they need him. He also, as we understand it, is in a situation
where, mathematically, he can't be inside the top two of the championship come the summer break.
So if what we know about his contract is correct and he has the clause that allows him to exit,
because he's not in the top two, he can now effectively hold that gun to the Red Bull Management
Head as well. And he can use that however he sees fit. Does he want to keep them dangling? Does he
want to negotiate a new contract? Does he want to start demanding more things from the team in
terms of what they do with the car, when they do it, what preferences he gets, how many marketing
days he has to do, how much of his time does he have to give to the side of Formula One?
Conor, you touched on this earlier. It's an entertainment business now. The teams and the
franchises are in Formula One as much to entertain, create content, satisfy fans, grow the audience
as they are to compete and race. That side of it Max absolutely detests, hates as much as it's
possible to hate something. So if he has an opportunity here to kind of dial that side of
things back to suit him and just focus on, as you say, the bit he loves more than anything,
which is driving and driving better than anyone else, then he's for sure going to take it and
leverage every bit of leverage that he's got. Conor, I'm interested in when you look at a driver
in Verstappen's position, obviously he can be very frank and direct with the outside world. He can
pretty much say within reason whatever he wants, can't he? He can get his message across. And that's
there's a sliding scale, isn't there, of drivers of how much privilege they've got to do that. If
you're Max Verstappen, because you can do it. Whereas if you're less
established or you're not Serenevich, that's right at the other end of the show. Well, he had
rear wing problems at Monaco, didn't he? But is that a position you look at and are quite sort
of envious of? Because you obviously know in any scenario, if you're kind of battling on
trying to sort of build a career or really stable career or a long-term relationship with a team,
if you're kind of on the up and you're not the guys winning all the races, which most racing
drivers ultimately aren't at any level, you don't get that privilege, do you? Whereas once you get
to the top, Verstappen's there and he can say, actually, I thought that was a bad idea. Whereas
the rest of them just have to keep quiet. Yeah, there are very few number of drivers who can
just say whatever they want anytime. And Max is one of them and he's earned that right. I haven't
seen a lot of Hadjar quotes, very similar. I haven't been diving deep into the critical Hadjar
quotes, right? Normally they're aimed at himself, actually. Exactly. Which again, that is what's
wild about this sport because there could be a driver at a Williams level or at Audi or even
Cadillac with Valtteri and Checo, where they might be driving very well right now. We obviously would
not know because their cars are not able to give them the chance to win. But those guys,
because they don't have as many world championships as Max Verstappen or Lewis Hamilton, they're not
going to have the freedom to be as aggressive with what they want out of it as Max will. And
I definitely understand, from my experience in racing too, I've seen even a lot of people on the
IndyCar side, a lot of drivers can say things and you're like, oh wow, I feel like if I said that,
I'd be shipped off to some place and I'd never return. But that's just how it is. You've got to
earn your right to say what you want. You've got to earn your right to fight for what you want,
which is continued success. But it is very entertaining when those things are said. It
gives us a lot to talk about. It gives the fans a lot of passion to get behind. Like, yeah, Max,
like you tell them, like we want you to win again. You know what I mean? Now, the fans can get very
aggressive and mean, which is, I don't recommend that honestly. That's, there's a wild scene out
there on the internet. But when the driver is saying it, it gets everyone pumped up. And if
you're, if your guy is saying it, who you cheer for, you're going to get behind that too. And then
that once again puts more pressure on the team and puts more pressure on everyone. So I do believe
that there's a limit. Like you mentioned, there is without a doubt a limit, but there are only
certain drivers who are allowed to say certain things. But it's always good when we get them,
because we know exactly what they're thinking, which is great with Max Verstappen. And we're
definitely going to hear exactly what he thinks when we get to spa. But for the final part of
the podcast, we're going to take a few questions from the race members club. If you're interested
in the race members club, hit the link in the episode description or head to Patreon and search
for the race members club to find out more thriving community loads of bonus content and
question asking privileges. Connor, I'm going to throw this question at you because you have some
particular expertise in this area. Having a double is probably the best best word occasionally in
recent years in the world of NASCAR. Jason Rhodes says in NASCAR, they have a system to move the
lapped cars behind the lead lap cars. Why can't F1 do the same thing? Dropping the lap cars behind
the last lead lap car would save so much time. And in today's case, would have allowed for a proper
finish. Well, I think this is a great question because I do believe, honestly, in America,
both in IndyCar and NASCAR, we do have the show dialed in a little bit better than F1 does. And
I think F1 is so popular right now and continues to grow just throughout the world that there still
is an element of entertainment that every single person that was watching the race on Sunday was
like, we, I mean, we got to go green, right? Like we got to go back. We got to go back to racing.
A last lap shootout would have been incredible. You know, the drivers are pitting for different
tires. We had soft songs. Like there was all kinds of things that were happening. And sometimes,
like, I know the FIA love their rules. Like, hey, we got to lock in. We love rules. But I would
appeal that, that safety car off wherever you could appeal it off. Like it doesn't matter where it
was put it in the fence hole, like get, get rid of it. And we're going racing because if the tracks
clear and like if it's, it's, if it's there's safety elements, obviously matter, of course.
But you know, we have a rule on the IndyCar side that on the last 20 laps of a race, the
lap cars go through the pit lane. So one, you know, one lap on the, under the safety car,
all the lap cars go through the pit lane. They get moved to the back. Great. Now we're locked in.
NASCAR does, does something similar. It's a NASCAR even as well. Like they're all about the show.
We know that. But it's, it is something that I think has to be thought about because even,
even the safety car rules and some of the other things like that, I believe that it could be an
even better product for seeing these drivers get to lay it on the line for all the, all the marbles
for when it all counts, like with two laps to go, one lap to go, whatever it is, the procedures and
the, the wave around, whatever it is. I do think that that needs to be analyzed in this current
era where I think entertainment, the entertainment value is, is becoming so high and people want
to be entertained by Formula One racing. They don't want to be entertained by Formula One
safety car finishes, right? I think it's just, we're in such an era now where people are demanding
the most exciting possible racing out there. And I think that there's room to adjust. So that's how
I would say it. I know I, I like the fact that on the IndyCar side, when you get towards the end
of the race, you're like, Oh, thank God, these guys are getting like, thank God, the lap cars
are going to be gone because we can focus on what we got to focus on. And, and yeah, it's just, it's,
it's good for the show. I think Connor's absolutely right. I just wish the FIA could
get and Formula One could get its ducks in a row properly because I feel like they,
they've boxed themselves into a dammed, if we do, damned, if we don't position because of the spectre
of Abu Dhabi 2021, which hangs over all of this, where they did prioritize the show when against
the regulations created a massive controversy, one of the biggest ever. And then ever since then,
whenever we've been in a situation like this, where it's near the knuckle of whether we can get a
proper restart under the safety car, happened at Monza a few years later, they want to say maybe
23 or 22. And it's obviously happened again now. They're absolutely petrified of going against
the regulations or, or trying to prioritize that in a way that allows for a questioning of it.
And I think it didn't help that they had this software glitch as they claimed that put the
message that it was going to happen. And then that carrot was immediately withdrawn from the
audience. If that hadn't have happened, everyone would have gone, okay, well, they just followed
procedure and it's a damp squib and that's a shame, but maybe they can change it for the future.
I think it's, it's hurt them that they've kind of given us the prospect of it. And because they've
done that, or it's happened by accident, I agree with you completely, they need to rethink it and
take lessons from elsewhere and go, how can we just make this process more efficient?
And real quick on that too, like the Indy 500, for example, not two or three years ago,
we have a late yellow and never in the history has this ever happened. But we had one lap to go,
we exited the pits after red flag and went straight to green, no tire warming,
literally nothing for the win of the Indianapolis 500, which is obviously, you know,
one of the largest motor racing events in the world. It was not done before, but it created
one of the most exciting finishes. Marcus Erickson didn't like it, but it was one of those things that
guess what we got to adjust it. And yeah, there are some people that had some problems with it,
but we couldn't have finished that race, I think under yellow, because we want to give the fans who
show up this exciting, just feeling of racing, because that's why we all show up is to see
racing. And so things can be adjusted and they can be, you know, mended. And yeah, the Abu Dhabi
situation, you know, that, that'll be talked about for forever. But things that get talked about
forever are also great for the sport too. You're like, Oh yeah, this is like, it creates some hype,
it creates some, you know, some wild finishes that, that we wouldn't have got otherwise. So I,
that's where I, that's where I stand on that. I'm like, Hey, look, let's, let's figure out
whatever we can do to make sure we can see these drivers who have lived their whole lives to deliver
on this one lap finish, whatever it is, that they get the chance to do that. What you said
there is important because it's a, it's about deciding what you are trying to achieve. If your
top priority is you want the lap cars to be back on the lead lap so that they can race those ahead.
And that's 11th back in this particular case at Silverstone. If that's your top priority, then
okay, this system's fine. I would consent it shouldn't be your top priority. Ultimately,
it's what you've just said, it's getting that finish. And if achieving that good finish is you
need the lap cars out of the way, and that's the primary motivator, then yeah, taken through the
pit lane, drop them to the back, do whatever you need to do to get them out of the way. And then
you allow a racing finish to happen. Because what's very clear is that will mean it happens
more quickly. And basically, as soon as the track's clear, you should be going green as
soon as you possibly can. And I think that should be the guiding principle for maybe modifying those
regulations because you should play to what the regs are at the time. But just because a reg
exists doesn't mean it's not wrong. So you then rewrite it. So great case study. Here, let's move
on now, Ben, to kind of a triple question all about Kimmy Antonelli, first one from Berger
Harrison, with Antonelli constantly on the verge of or getting a penalty for track limits and damaging
his car going too wide on the curb in cops at Silverstone. Can we say that he's too aggressive
for a championship leader? I know he's still in his second season, and it's great to watch, but
surely Bono and Toto must do something to rein him in. Robert Chambers adds whether Kimmy is
stressing the car too much and leaving himself vulnerable to breakdowns. And Dilvar Bodesing
says, is this championship going to be decided by DNF's calls by Mechanical and Power Unit Failures,
as Kimmy seems to have the pace advantage consistently to get the better result over
Russell, but the points gaps closing thanks to unreliability. So Ben, lots to dive into there.
Where do you want to start? Yeah, well, I think on the reliability question, the last part of it,
absolutely, it could be. These are immature regulations. Mercedes have had problems. Obviously,
they've bought in fixes to try and rectify that from Austria onwards and so far, so good on the
battery side especially. So maybe now we get a clearer run, but it shows how sometimes that luck
can even out, doesn't it? Because it wasn't so long ago that Russell was having all these
bad moments with the battery shut down in Canada, safety car timing working against him, losing
points and Antonelli was on a roll. And the last three races, even though the performance has been
strong, he hasn't been able to translate it into points for one reason or another. So this always
happens in world championships and it could come down to reliability and a bit of luck at the end
of it. In terms of Antonelli himself, I don't think you can criticize him too much for pushing too
hard. In the circumstances of Silverstone, he's been put in a situation by the strategy where he
has to chase Leclerc down to win the race. Ferrari protected Leclerc from the undercut. Mercedes
deliberately ran Antonelli long to then give him the tire advantage at the end. So he's got to push
to make the gap up and then attack the Ferrari and try and win the race. Yeah, he ran onto the
kerb at Cops, but I mean, Connor, I think you'll know this, it's not a particularly unusual line he
took. Using that kerb is quite common and yeah, it can take out a bit of the floor. I think Norris
did that line too. I think he was very unlucky that a piece of the car happened to dislodge in that
way from the amount of liberty he took on that kerb. I don't think you can use that as a criticism
of him and his driving, especially when he's been charged with, you need to hunt down this Ferrari,
which is being driven extremely well by a driver on form in order to win the race and he was doing a
good job. And then as to the element of wider track limits, does he need raining in in that sense?
I mean, again, most of the track limits problems in Silverstone were after the car broke. He
couldn't turn it. I think it was left particularly was struggling. So there was an argument there
that he shouldn't have been and it was made on the broadcast, certainly the sky broadcast by
Martin Brundle. He shouldn't be getting a track limits penalty when the car is taking him off the
track and he's going slowly. Track limits is meant to be don't gain an advantage from taking a line
that gains you lap time. So I would disregard the track limits element at Silverstone. Barcelona,
there was a different question because he was taking liberties and he got a penalty because
McLaren grassed him up during the race. And it was just a story because it happened to be applied
after he'd DNFed in the race. But I don't really see Anton Elias, someone who's wayward,
even though he's a young, I think it's maybe a bit of a trope to think, here's a young guy come in,
here's a hot shot. He's wayward. He needs raining in and calming down his driving. I think his
driving has been superb. What you could say Toto and Bono have to do is just temper and they are
doing this, his kind of more hot headedness and this inability has still because he's in experience
to kind of see the global picture of the race and why a certain thing is happening in a given
moment. You hear the Italian passion on the radio where he's not got the full picture and he's like,
oh, why are we doing this? Oh, why am I here? And they're just going, no, it's okay, Kim,
you don't worry. Just focus on this. I think that is something that they are working on and
will just come with time. Everything else I'm seeing from Anthony this year, I think is pretty
much bang on. One thing that I wanted to add to that too, just real quick, I thought, first of
all, the track limits penalty, that's crazy, right? It is about gaining advantage. I thought,
just seeing someone fly off the track, it's like, we're going to penalize that poor guy? That's
awful. The whole thing was crazy. But what I, so we, you talked about hot headedness,
young, he's very young. But when I watched that race and he was like, you know what,
I'm actually not going to give up. How many times have we seen forming the one team just for tire
cars because of, you know, small things here and there, they know that it's the off pace now.
Kim, it wasn't they wanted to, they said, yeah, they said to come on, we're going to retire it.
He refused. And I actually love that because we just saw an Indy card not two races ago,
Christian Lundgaard on lap one, he had his front wing knocked off all kinds of damage.
He won the race. They didn't, they didn't give up that he went by all the way back to last and
came back forward. Like I think in forming the one we so often see if there's a little bit of
damage and again, the cars have to perform at the highest level at all times. But Kim,
he was in a position. He's like, wait a second, where am I? Because he's thinking championship
already. He's thinking, Hey, one point could matter. And I thought that was very mature for a
kid, essentially to, to say, you know what team actually, let's try to ride this out.
And then we saw what happened to max for step. And it's like, Oh, oh my gosh, I'm glad we stayed
out. Obviously the time panel, that's, that's horrible anyway. But if he doesn't have that,
I mean, it's, it's, it's something that I really respected. And I feel like we don't see enough
in forming the one like, Hey, if something crazy happens to the car, but we still might have a
chance to, to do something, score some points, maybe let's stay out there. Let's try to ride it
out and see what happens because you can, you never know what will happen in motorsport.
Yeah, you should always as a driver, I think want to do that. Sometimes there might be an
argument that if the car is going to get more damaged and there's implications under cost cap
or that kind of thing, or of course a major safety concern, like, you know, something's
almost certainly going to fail. You don't leave the car out there to have the failure.
I think he'd have got pulled in, wouldn't he? They would have given him the meatball flag
if it was so bad. Yeah, exactly. So yeah. And that's, I think, a lesson, any sport,
actually, just hang on in there. And you can, sometimes you do get these miracles happening
and you think, well, they hung on in there and something amazing happened. 99% of the time,
it won't be amazing if you end up 15th or ever. Antonelli did, but you have got to be in it to
win it, haven't you? So just keep going. And yeah, I'd agree. Antonelli's got some rough edges,
but then all that rough. And for a 19 year old, it's terrifying how good he should be
in 56 years time just with the extra maturity, the data bank filled up.
This is, you know, we're seeing an early Kimmy Antonelli here and he's absolutely sensational.
So I can only imagine what he's going to be like down the line. Right,
we'll move on now to a question from Joe K. Connor, for you. How much of a role has Pete
Bonnington played in the maturing of Kimmy Antonelli to the point that he's the favorite
to win the driver's championship? Everyone using commentary seems to give Kimmy all the credit
he deserves. A lot of it. And he's clearly a prodigiously talented driver, but surely Bono
has poured over the data, done a lot of the homework and helped Kimmy to get where he is.
This is the race engineer question really, Connor. I can't explain enough how important that
race engineer driver relationship is. I think that is like that's your guy or that's your girl,
whoever it is. Like that is your primary key to going fast in the race car. When you tell him or
her what's going on and what you need out of the car to win the race or to do what's better,
you got to know that they know exactly what you're saying and in your tone, how much you want out
of it. I've got a little bit of understeer. What does a little bit mean? Is that one turn of front
wing? Is that two? There's a language that you two will speak that when you gel together, when
you work together very efficiently, it is so helpful. And I really enjoy the way Pete talks
with Antonelli on the radio. I think it's very supportive. I think it's very good because
Antonelli is very young as well. But clearly, Pete also believes in his driver, which is super
important as well. And when they now have seen what they can do together, that's a very dangerous
combination. I think that as you said just a little bit ago, this is a very young Kim Antonelli.
The maturity that I believe he's shown at times, yes, there's some wildness out there from time
to time and some issues where you're like, oh, you know, that was maybe a little bit too aggressive
or maybe that wasn't exactly right. He's still leading the world championships. It's a pretty
impressive situation for that young driver. And I really do like the relationship that they've got.
It speaks very well of Pete Bonnington and his ability just to adapt
how he's communicating. Obviously, there's a huge age gap there, a completely different
profile and character of driver to Lewis Hamilton, but he's been able to make that
switch. And the thing I always find fascinating about the driver race engineer dynamic is
particularly when it comes to a race engineer, you can put a race engineer with one driver
and he's fantastic or she's fantastic. And then the driver can change and it doesn't work. And
I always liken it to just in the real world, we all have different people we communicate with
better than others. Some you never quite get on the same page. And it's not because
they're wrong or anything. It's just there's just that sort of lack of connection.
And it's got to be difficult, hasn't it Conor, for someone who's in his early 50s as Bono is
to build that connection with Kimmy Antonelli, who was 18 when he started last season. But
it seems to have been, it's given the impression of being effortless. I'm sure it's not been,
but that takes a lot. Well, I actually kind of got a little bit of an inside look into that
engineering office at one point. My engineer in 2013, my assistant engineer and ended up
being my race engineer for a couple of races on the IndyCar side ended up at the Mercedes
Formula One team over the last two years. He's now he's now with the Haas Formula One team. But
he said working with those guys at Mercedes and the process of what they how they go about things,
I can see why they're successful. I can see why and how they went from all right, we're not
leading the world championship in the previous generation of the car.
Now they are and they've made those steps forward. I think that Pete is very good,
but he's also got a great supporting cast as well. When the team is working together and
everyone is doing their jobs efficiently, we see it with race wins. And right now that, you know,
Mercedes, they are, you know, it's getting closer, but they are definitely the best right now. And
it takes a team effort to make that happen. Ed, I'm going to slightly disagree with what you said
about the adjustment, because I think with Bonnington, a little bit like with GP at Red Bull,
I think there are certain race engineers who kind of transcend the need to adapt to the driver and
also need to have that strength of character because of the level of driver they're working with.
So you see with GP, okay, we only really know him in the Max Verstappen context, but he has that
laconic way and that dry way of dealing with Max and his tantrums in the car if you want to call
him that. I can't imagine him being any other way, regardless of the driver he's working with.
That's his personality and that's what he's going to bring to the role. And with Bonnington,
he's not like that. He's kind of very calming, almost like an ASM type kind of voice that
cools you down when you're getting hot. And Lewis, as much as he was much more experienced when he
see Hamilton kind of unraveling sometimes when he didn't understand the strategic call or he
didn't like the fact that he'd been put in a certain position with the tyres or whatnot. And
Bonnington would always be in there with that cool calm voice, it's okay Lewis, we're doing this,
we just need this now. And he brings that exact same approach to Antonelli and maybe that wouldn't
work with every driver, but I feel like he knows how to deal with an elite driver. So he's bringing
that to what should turn out to be another elite driver. And I think they need handling maybe a
different way to the kind of driver who's not quite so fully formed, not quite got the same
level of natural talent, etc. Yeah, that is true. There is one thing I was thinking of when I said
that, which was, because actually I think if you listen to Bonnington, his communication has not
totally changed or anything, it's not transformed. But one thing I know they were very conscious of,
particularly over the course of last year, was adapting to having that rookie, which they'd
never had in that team before. And there was the element of communication as well. They're often
thinking of how hard you can be on them, etc. So with maybe I overstated it, but it's kind of
the fine tuning element, should we say, of just getting the specifics. So I think you've helped
me zero in a lot more on what I was sort of intending to say there, even if it didn't, but I
think you're quite correct. Right, question that's combined, apart from Dori Nicol, who says, was
something more than usually wrong with Lance Stroll's car at Silverstone? And was he making
the car with his worst understeer and the sprint was shocking? While Andy says the video of Lance
Stroll's Aston Martin with horrendous understeer through cops was shocking. Is this Aston as
bad as it actually appeared? Or was this a specific one corner issue? Well, the Aston was a bit
all over the place with having downshift issues. There was understeer. I know in the sprint, he was
really struggling with understeer. The front left was just being destroyed. And he was really
struggling with it. Well, I would be interested to get Connor's view on this. I don't know if you've
seen the footage specifically cops where I have normal and now I looked at that and clearly
there's a huge amount of understeer. But that to me looks like a fairly pointless exercise and just
trying to push through the understeer because putting on the extra lock at that point, you want
to but you're not you're not going to get more front end from putting on more lock beyond a
certain amount. So are you? I mean, yeah, there was a chronic problem, but that was not going to
fix it. Is it? One of the funniest clips I think I've ever seen in a race car. It is. It is. And
the best part is one of the fastest corners. It's a corner that I mean, I remember driving
great corner love it. But if you have that much rear stability, you're able to just turn the thing
like that. I think every driver's had that moment in their lives at one point where you get so
frustrated with the understeer that you've got or whatever the balance issue that you've got is
there are many times in my career, certainly in IndyCar where you do tell your engineer,
you're like, Hey, when I get to the middle of the corner, I could literally input everything and
nothing happens. And we've all I guarantee you, you can ask every driver and at some point they're
like, Yeah, I've done that just to try it because because you so desperately want the car to turn
you so desperately want it to do what you want it to do. And it won't. And so you're like, Look,
that's what it's doing. And so I think that is just a compounding of frustration. Obviously that
that team is struggling. It's it's it's tough to see because you know, I feel like I expected more
out of Aston Martin overall this year and especially with the people that they've got lined up there
and and the experience of Fernando as well. But yeah, that was that was something that I believe
every driver's done at least once. But because F1 is on the scale that it's at and every car has
a camera and it's always going and people are always looking at the homeboard clips, something
like that was definitely going to get out. And I'm sure Lance was just like, told you,
it's we need more front grip. And yeah, probably not necessary, doesn't help the tire. But
hard, it's tough to see those guys struggling so much with the balance of the car.
Yeah, I mean, Lance Stroll was not the problem in that in that scenario that the car was
yeah, extremely different. He had a pretty solid weekend at Silverstone as far as you
can within a car. That's that tricky. And then the final question connected to that from Nick
Fix says, as a Fernando Alonso fan, is there any point in watching this sport anymore? It's never
made me this demoralized before. I mean, to be a Fernando Alonso fan now, it's like it's like
transporting yourself back 10 or 11 years, isn't it? To Oh, yeah, we're kind of live the McLaren
dream McLaren Honda. It's going to be brilliant. Oh, no, the car is absolutely terrible. But even
that abysmal waste of Alonso's talent wasn't as bad as this, you know, he must be feeling like
he's driving in basically an F2 car and not a particularly good one while everyone else is
in a Formula One car. I don't know. Well, I know how I think he's handling it. And that's just,
you know, ever since he came back after that post McLaren hiatus, he had a different view of F1 as
something to be enjoyed, to understand the privilege you've got to be on that grid, even if
your personal situation on that grid is terrible. So I think he understands the bigger picture now,
and obviously he's much older and more mature as well in terms of dealing with things. But
I don't know how he does it as a guy as competitive as he is, as good as he is like one of the all
time greats, you know, I put him in the Max Verstappen camp, even though he hasn't got the same
number of championships and results like he is one of the best ever drivers. So there is no way
that Fernando Alonso is the limitation in that team at all, but everything around it like he was
there because it's got, you know, the most dedicated ownership, no expense spared, all that money
poured into the capex before, cost cat really bit. Adrian knew he's been attracted, brilliant
simulator, brilliant facility, brilliant engine supplier in theory and Honda who just managed to
win championships with Red Bull and evolve into the class leader after being so terrible when
he was at McLaren. And yet nothing is there. You're just in this ridiculous situation. We are
in by far the worst car, a car that's worse than even a completely brand new team that started
from scratch. Like it's, it is nothing short of embarrassing. And I'm sure Alonso has a lot to
say about this, that he is just refusing to say he is doing the stellar job of just going up in
front of all those cameras, like you say, Connor, they're on all the time and microphones are always
on. And he is just repeating the, yeah, okay, well, we're just waiting for the BSPEC car and
the engine upgrade to come in the meantime, we just do our best for everybody and try to learn
as much as we can. But he must be absolutely fuming inside that helmet. And he's still so good,
but he doesn't get any younger, right? Like that, you know, it's got to be tough for him because
I believe that he clearly thinks that he is still able to deliver what when, you know, on the day
and whenever he is, you know, able to compete. But that, I can't imagine how frustrated because
I have so much respect for Fernando for all of the racing that he's done, right? He's, he's
come to the Indy 500. I was lucky enough to get to race against the guy like awesome dude and a
great competitor and someone again, like Max, who just wants to be the best that he can be and do
and win and compete. And I, I respect that. And it's hard to watch because I'm a Fernando fan too.
I like Fernando a lot. Yeah, I think the just watching two drivers struggling in a car like
that, particularly when one of them is Fernando Alonso, it just seems a bit of a waste, doesn't
it? So yeah, it's going to require quite a bit of patience there, I think. But yeah, there is a
big upgrade coming, but you could stick a chunk of performance on that car.
Still not going to be getting you anywhere near the points, is it? So yeah, long hard season ahead
and who knows where they'll be come the start of next year. Well, thanks very much, Ben. And
thanks particularly to Connor for your debut appearance. It's been great to have you along
for your insight. Thanks to everybody who sent in questions. We've got another podcast coming up
on Monday. So stay with us for everything you need to know from the world of Formula One.
The Athletic
About this episode
Ferrari’s Charles Leclerc looks like he’s finally found form again after a tough start, with his Silverstone win framed as his most complete, consistent performance so far. The hosts debate whether it’s true driver “return to form” or the result of Ferrari’s upgrades and Leclerc adapting to Lewis Hamilton’s preferred setup approach—especially around braking feel and rear-end control. Conor Daly adds a driver’s perspective on coping with frustration and making incremental adjustments. The chat also touches on Verstappen’s growing worries, recent SC-related race dynamics, and a strange Stroll driving moment.
After a tricky start to the season, Charles Leclerc showed Ferrari what they were missing as he returned to top form at Silverstone. But how did he haul himself out of the hole he was trapped in, and does this mean Leclerc is now finally on top of this generation of cars? In the latest episode of The Race F1 Podcast, Edd Straw is joined by Ben Anderson and IndyCar driver Conor Daly to answer those questions and more.
Edd, Ben and Conor also discuss Max Verstappen's mindset following his latest 'super dangerous' off in Britain, plus there's chat about how F1 should amend its safety car rules, whether Kimi Antonelli's aggressive driving approach will cost him in the long run, and what was behind Lance Stroll's strange Silverstone showing.
Get bonus F1 podcasts, extra content and ad-free listening, sign-up to The Race Members' Club on Patreon today.
