Limited-edition specials and why they might be overrated #286
About this episode
A lively debate unfolds about the allure and potential overrated nature of limited-edition performance cars. The hosts share their evolving perspectives, questioning whether these 'specials' truly enhance the driving experience or simply add complexity and compromise. They speculate on an upcoming Bentley model, discussing desired features like weight reduction and rear-wheel drive. The conversation also touches on homologation specials, off-road sports cars, and the impact of noise regulations on future automotive soundscapes, making for a thought-provoking episode for car enthusiasts.
Dan Prosser and Andrew Frankel discuss the limited-edition versions of already high-performance cars, such as CS-badged BMW M-cars and Black Series Mercedes-AMGs. Are these more powerful, more uncompromising and always more expensive derivatives really better than the standard models they are based on? If not, which are the exceptions to the rule?
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limited series
"So, there is a new Bentley um a as we understand it a limited series Bentley on the way."
A limited series means that only a small number of these cars will be made, making them special and often more valuable.
A limited series refers to a specific number of vehicles produced, often with unique features or specifications, making them more exclusive and desirable among collectors and enthusiasts.
Bentley Continental GT
"...it's based on a Continental GT. Don't call it a Continental Super..."
The Bentley Continental GT is a fancy sports car that's very luxurious and powerful. It's designed for comfortable long drives and has a lot of high-quality features.
The Bentley Continental GT is a luxury grand tourer known for its powerful performance and opulent features. It combines high-end craftsmanship with advanced technology, making it a popular choice among luxury car enthusiasts.
Bentley Super Sports
"What do we want a Bentley Super Sports to be? Okay. There's one word in my head."
The Bentley Super Sports is a sportier version of Bentley cars, focusing on performance and speed while still being luxurious. It's meant for those who want a fast and stylish ride.
The Bentley Super Sports is a high-performance variant of the luxury Bentley lineup, designed to offer a more dynamic driving experience. It emphasizes sportiness while maintaining the brand's signature luxury features.
rear drive
"Oh, rear drive. Yeah, not front wheel drive. [laughter]"
Rear drive means that the back wheels of the car are the ones that get power from the engine. This setup can make the car handle better, especially when going fast.
Rear drive, or rear-wheel drive (RWD), is a vehicle layout where the engine's power is sent to the rear wheels. This configuration often provides better handling and balance, especially in performance cars.
front wheel drive
"Yeah, not front wheel drive. [laughter] Well, you got a front wheel drive super."
Front wheel drive means that the front wheels of the car are the ones that get power from the engine. This can help the car grip the road better in bad weather.
Front wheel drive (FWD) is a vehicle layout where the engine's power is directed to the front wheels. This configuration is common in many cars and can provide better traction in slippery conditions.
W12
"There's no W12 anymore, is there?"
A W12 engine is a powerful type of engine with 12 cylinders arranged in a unique shape. It's used in some fancy cars to provide a lot of power while saving space.
The W12 is a type of engine configuration that features 12 cylinders arranged in a 'W' shape, allowing for a compact design with high power output. It's commonly used in luxury and high-performance vehicles, such as those from Volkswagen and Audi.
V8
"...you'd be surprised at how little weight difference there is between the W12 and the V8. It's about 50 kilos. Not a big deal."
A V8 engine has eight cylinders arranged in a V shape, which helps it produce a lot of power. It's often used in sports cars and trucks.
A V8 engine is an eight-cylinder engine with the cylinders arranged in a V configuration. This design is popular for its balance of power and smooth operation, commonly found in performance and luxury vehicles.
hybrid
"...They're all hybrid, aren't they?"
A hybrid car uses both a regular engine and an electric motor to help save fuel and reduce pollution. It can switch between the two or use both at the same time.
A hybrid vehicle combines a traditional internal combustion engine with an electric motor, allowing for improved fuel efficiency and reduced emissions. Hybrids can operate on either power source or both simultaneously.
Bentley Bentayga
"...the Bentega, the Continental GT, and the Flying Spur are not in the first flash of youth..."
The Bentayga is a fancy SUV made by Bentley. It's known for being very luxurious and powerful, perfect for those who want comfort and style.
The Bentley Bentayga is a luxury SUV that combines high performance with off-road capabilities and lavish interiors. It represents Bentley's entry into the SUV market.
Bentley Flying Spur
"...the Bentega, the Continental GT, and the Flying Spur are not in the first flash of youth..."
The Flying Spur is a luxury sedan made by Bentley. It's very comfortable and packed with high-tech features, perfect for a smooth and stylish ride.
The Bentley Flying Spur is a luxury sedan that combines performance with comfort and advanced technology. It is designed for those who desire a high level of luxury and driving experience.
Bentley Continental R
"...short wheelbase version of the Continental R, um, which was absolutely bonkers and had no ride quality at all..."
The Bentley Continental R is a high-end luxury car that was made in the 1990s. It was designed for both speed and comfort, but a shorter version of it was made that focused more on sportiness, which made it less comfortable to ride in.
The Bentley Continental R is a luxury grand tourer produced by Bentley in the 1990s. It is known for its powerful performance and opulent features, but the short wheelbase version mentioned here is particularly noted for its sporty handling at the expense of ride comfort.
Bentley GT3-R
"The GT3-R is probably the most radical Bentley there has been in recent years. It was a two-seater. Um, you know, decent weight saving, but still four-wheel drive and..."
The Bentley GT3-R is a special version of a Bentley car that is made for racing but still has luxury features. It's lighter than regular Bentleys and has a very powerful engine.
The Bentley GT3-R is a high-performance variant of the Continental GT, designed for track use while maintaining luxury features. It is known for its lightweight construction and powerful twin-turbocharged W12 engine.
Porsche 911S
"...ormance cars. Um, let's not get bogged down in GT 911s. >> Great cars, you know, we love them, but"
homologation
"...of homologation specials which come under the uh title of homologation..."
Homologation is when car manufacturers make a special version of a car so it can be used in racing. They have to follow certain rules, and this often leads to some really cool and powerful cars being sold to regular people.
Homologation refers to the process of certifying that a vehicle meets specific regulations and standards for competition. Manufacturers often produce limited runs of vehicles to qualify them for racing series, which can lead to high-performance models that are available to the public.
E30 M3
"...things like E30 M3s."
The E30 M3 is a famous version of the BMW M3 sports car that was made in the 1980s and early 1990s. It was built to meet racing rules, which is why it's so special and popular among car enthusiasts.
The BMW E30 M3 is a legendary sports car known for its performance and handling. Produced from 1982 to 1994, it was originally designed for homologation purposes to compete in motorsport, making it a highly sought-after classic today.
Porsche 924
"...I saw an old Porsche 924 coming towards us. Yeah. It drove past..."
The Porsche 924 is a car made by Porsche that was sold from the late 1970s to the late 1980s. It's known for being a more affordable sports car from the brand.
The Porsche 924 is a sports car produced by Porsche from 1976 to 1988. It was designed as an entry-level model and is known for its front-engine, rear-wheel-drive layout.
Porsche Carrera GT
"...d I was looking at think, okay, so it's clearly a Carrera GT. It's a 924 Carrera GT. And then I thought, hang ..."
Pontiac GTO
">> um for a long time. I think the Ferrari 288 GTO or GTO as it's properly called um was a homologat..."
Ferrari 288 GTO
">> um for a long time. I think the Ferrari 288 GTO or GTO as it's properly called um was a homologat..."
Ferrari 250 GTO
"Let's go back to the original GTO, the 250 GTO. >> Yeah."
Peugeot 205
"205s, Lancia Deltas, Metros..."
The Peugeot 205 is a small car that became popular in racing, especially in rally competitions.
The Peugeot 205 is a compact car that gained fame in the rally scene, particularly for its performance in Group B events.
Lancia Deltas
"Lancia Deltas, Metros..."
The Lancia Delta is a small car known for its success in rally racing, especially during the 1980s.
The Lancia Delta is a compact car that became iconic in the rally world, particularly for its success in Group B racing.
Audi Quattro
"Quattro. They're all short quattros."
The Audi Quattro is a famous car known for its all-wheel drive and success in rally racing.
The Audi Quattro is a revolutionary all-wheel-drive sports car that made a significant impact in rally racing, particularly during the Group B era.
Lancia Stratos
"motorsport breeding. >> Lancia Stratos. Pure homologation special."
Ford Escort RS500
"...Escort Cossworth Sierra RS500. GR Yaris. ..."
The Ford Escort RS500 is a sporty version of the Ford Escort that was made for racing. It's known for being fast and successful in competitions.
The Ford Escort RS500 is a high-performance version of the Escort, known for its success in motorsport, particularly in rallying and touring car racing. It features enhancements that make it suitable for competitive racing.
Toyota GR Yaris
"...Sierra RS500. GR Yaris. ..."
The Toyota GR Yaris is a sporty version of the Yaris hatchback designed for racing. It has a powerful engine and special features that make it fun to drive.
The Toyota GR Yaris is a performance-oriented hatchback that was developed for rally racing. It features all-wheel drive and a turbocharged engine, making it a popular choice among car enthusiasts.
Renault 5 Turbo
">> Absolutely. >> Um BMW M1 250 G2 mid-enine Rena 5 Turbo with the original"
Bmw M1
"Um BMW M1 250 G2 mid-enine Rena 5 Turbo with the original"
The BMW M1 is a sports car made by BMW in the late 1970s and early 1980s. It's famous for its unique design and powerful performance.
The BMW M1 is a sports car produced by BMW from 1978 to 1981. It was the first car developed by BMW's M division and is known for its distinctive wedge shape and mid-engine layout.
Porsche 911 GT3
"with the original >> um Yeah. And 911 GT3. So there there are no shortage of cars, but you ..."
Mitsubishi Lancer
"...hey literally had to go and drive it into sort of Lancer HQ and bang the desk and say, "Look, you need thi..."
Ford Sierra Cosworth
"So, uh, Ford obviously produced the Sierra Cossworth in when was it 86 or 87? Um, I think they had to make 5,000 of those to moleate it for um, group A, I think it would have been."
The Ford Sierra Cosworth is a special version of a car made by Ford in the 1980s. It was built to be fast and was used in racing, which is why they had to make a certain number of them.
The Ford Sierra Cosworth is a high-performance version of the Ford Sierra, produced in the late 1980s. It was notable for its turbocharged engine and was designed to compete in Group A racing, which required manufacturers to produce a minimum number of units for homologation.
150 mph
"...they cost less than £20,000. Um, they did 150 mph. Um, they looked absolutely bonkers..."
150 mph is a measure of how fast a car can go. It's a way to talk about a car's speed performance, showing that it can reach high speeds.
150 mph refers to the maximum speed that certain cars can achieve, which is a common performance metric in the automotive world. It indicates the car's capability in terms of speed and performance.
massive wing
"...three door shells, massive wing on the back. Um, they were actually..."
A massive wing is a big piece on the back of a car that helps it stay stable when going fast. It's common on sports cars to help them grip the road better.
A massive wing refers to a large aerodynamic component attached to the rear of a car, designed to increase downforce and improve stability at high speeds. It's often seen on performance and racing cars.
Ford Sierra Sapphire Cosworth
"...like the Sapphire Cossworth. Yeah, a rear drive Sapphire Cossworth is a really underrated car."
Group B rally
"...that's probably a running theme, particularly the group B rally stuff that..."
Group B rally was a type of car racing that happened in the 1980s. It featured very fast cars that were made to compete in tough conditions, and it became famous for its exciting races and powerful vehicles.
Group B rally was a category of rally racing that took place from 1982 to 1986, known for its high-performance cars and extreme speeds. It was famous for its innovative technology and the use of homologation cars, which led to some of the most iconic vehicles in motorsport history.
NVH
"I don't mean as in NVH, noise, vibration, harshness. I mean, the manufacturers didn't spend a very very long time making them absolutely as good as they can be because they were built for a purpose."
NVH refers to how much noise, vibration, and roughness you feel in a car. Lower NVH means a quieter and smoother ride, which many people prefer.
NVH stands for Noise, Vibration, and Harshness, which are key factors in assessing a vehicle's comfort and refinement. Manufacturers often focus on minimizing these elements to enhance the driving experience.
FIA
"They would get a tick in a box from the FIA and they could go rallying. So,"
The FIA is an organization that makes the rules for car racing and motorsports. Cars need to follow these rules to be allowed to race in events like rallies.
The FIA, or Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile, is the governing body for many motorsport events, including rallying. They set the rules and regulations that vehicles must meet to compete.
Ford RS200
"something like a an RS200 is probably a pretty unpleasant road car. I I I Okay, I haven't driven any of them apart from So, I haven't driven an RS200."
The Ford RS200 is a fast car made for racing, but it's not very comfortable for regular driving. It was built in the 1980s for rally competitions, which means it focuses more on speed than comfort.
The Ford RS200 is a high-performance rally car produced in the 1980s, known for its advanced technology and all-wheel drive system. It was designed for Group B rallying but is often considered impractical for everyday road use due to its performance-oriented design.
Peugeot 205 T16
"I haven't driven a 205 T16. haven't driven a Delta S4."
The Peugeot 205 T16 is a famous rally car from the 1980s that was built to be very fast and powerful. It's known for winning many races, but like the RS200, it's not made for comfort on regular roads.
The Peugeot 205 T16 is a legendary rally car known for its success in Group B rallying during the 1980s. It features a turbocharged engine and all-wheel drive, making it a formidable competitor in its time.
Mercedes-Benz SLK
">> Which? Oh, the SLK. >> The SLK. The first one. >> So, we we work um ..."
Mercedes-Benz SL
"Um, >> and what was the SL called? >> 65."
Lamborghini Aventador Svjs
"...amborghini I've driven. >> And I that I I include Aventador SVJs, which is another Lamborghini that I'm I"
Ferrari F40S
"...tandard yard stick, they made about 1,350 Ferrari F40s. >> Yeah."
Aston Martin Vanquish
"with like a, I don't know, an Aston Martin Vanquish or something. >> When I first drove one, I said t..."
Land Rover Range Rover
"...ve, and I'd never own one. different if you got a Range Rover um or a Defender or something which you you"
Seat Leon Cupra
"properly rapid cars. Uh there was a say at Leon Cupra Sub8 as well that I think that did have rear seat..."
Porsche Cayman
"hatchback with two seats or would you buy a Cayman instead? That's the thing."
Porsche 911 GT3 RS
">> Yeah, they were they were proper sort of GT3 RS kind of money, weren't they? Um, we I think by de..."
Ferraris 458
"improvement on frankly not one of the greatest Ferraris. 458 Speci >> well scooter between that 430 scooter"
Mclaren 675LT
"...p at uh Anglesy where we had a 911R, a 488, and a 675LT. Yeah. On track. So you think 911 R675LT. Now I"
Aston Martin Vantage GT8
">> Oh, okay. >> The Vantage GT8 and GT12. >> There have been so many modified Ast..."
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