Mentorship, Career Moves, & Trusting Your Gut as a Technician

The truth thing about mentorship is that doesn't always mean that they're going to be following

your footsteps.

That doesn't mean they're going to end up with you, but if you're a good mentor, you're

going to get people where they need to be, line up with what they want to do and help

them succeed in that.

Welcome back to Beyond the Wrench.

My name is Jay Gannon and I am your host.

On today's show, we welcome back a familiar face, Josh Arnold, to talk about his year

in review.

The last time we had Josh on the podcast, we actually switched roles and he had me on

my own podcast, which was a lot of fun to do.

But we wanted to take some time to kind of catch up with Josh and see what the latest

is with him.

And welcome back to the show, Josh.

Thanks.

It definitely feels better sitting back in the seat.

Well, you did a phenomenal job hosting before.

I had a lot of fun being on the other side, but at the time said, I give the guests a

lot more credit in general just because it is when you're on the hot seat.

It's a little tougher, isn't it?

It definitely is.

Definitely changes.

It's hard on the host side, too.

So you've been up to a lot this year and the reason why we wanted to have this episode

was to, one, just catch up with you.

I always like learning the latest about what's going on in your life and in your career.

And to kind of chat through maybe some things you've learned over the course of this past

year.

So tell us a little bit about how this year has gone.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We're still at the same dealership, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So catching you guys up last week, kind of left off was my move down to Texas.

We had talked about kind of the big transition, the ridiculous amount of work that went into

making that happen.

So I actually, I've been at that dealer now just, just across two years.

So we're right on time for another podcast, Time Flies.

I've also been two years, that's insane.

But I've been keeping busy as I normally do in that timeframe.

So the last time we left off, I was at the New Brew shop is what we called it, our secondary

location.

And I had settled into that.

I got to start teaching apprentices again.

And the first thing I kind of wanted to catch you up on was a story that I had with one

of my latest apprentices.

It was a difficult event with it, but I think the lesson is something that maybe some other

mentors can share, maybe some other apprentices can appreciate because basically I had a very

young, bright kid, very interested in joining the automotive industry, showed an extreme

amount of promise, didn't have a lot of technical hands on skills, but really was eager, had

an amazing work ethic, and was just excited to be there.

And that's exactly who I usually take on an apprentice skills or no skills that can all

be taught.

It's just that, do they want to be there?

Do they have the work ethic to make it happen?

And he lined up with all of that.

So he graduated his high school program.

He had been at a high school automotive program for quite some time, had a really good instructor,

and had some basic understandings, of course, of the automotive field.

That being said, of course, dealership environment from high school, as we all know, is probably

not the same, right?

So we had done a couple of months where he was after school coming in, hanging out with

me for a few hours.

So by the time he graduated, he actually did have a decent understanding of kind of like

what he was getting himself into.

And we had a good understanding of how he was going to kind of fit into everything.

So we took him in under an apprentice and started working with him.

And in about a month and a half, we started to run into some trouble.

Basically, we were having some motivation issues and having some timely issues, basically

not showing up on a timely manner anymore.

And I knew the kid just because with any apprentice, I really try to get involved in their life.

I mean, he would come over and have dinner with us.

And we had a very good open dialogue.

And what I started to realize was more and more that what he wanted was not in the

automotive industry and what his skill set he had did not line up with the automotive

trade.

And I think I realized it a lot sooner than he did.

And he was so gung-ho and set on following the path of kind of my footsteps.

And he was very motivated, but almost to a detriment at this point because he just didn't

want to see the reality of the situation.

And it was a hard experience for both of us because I'll be honest, if I had been in a

different point in my career, maybe 23 years earlier, I probably would have pushed

him to stay in it because he had the skills to make it work.

I have no doubt he would have figured it out, but it just wasn't what was right for him.

And when he finally found that out, it was hard to accept, but we ended up hitting a

breaking point where he had showed up late multiple times.

And I had to formally fire him as an apprentice.

And I told him when we kind of ended it all, and of course we still talk, and it's not

like we're saying goodbye forever, but it was the most casual firing you'll ever see.

I promise you that.

But we had basically ended up, I told him, hey, you knew the expectation was that you

were going to show up on time.

This has not happened, and I'm sorry, just do this, but I have to stand by my word.

And I let him go, and I said, I think that the problem with you not wanting to get here

in the morning is not that you can't do it, but because you don't want to do it.

And when he finally got over that phase of frustration and being a little bit angry with

me as anyone would, he realized that we were right, that it wasn't for him.

And the really cool part of this story was that he did end up going into something that

he really aligned his passion with, talking with people, being very communicative.

He was always a good salesman.

I mean, he sold himself to me so well, and I always told him that.

And so he ended up going into a phone sales, and he has been extremely successful in it

just because, again, he has found his passion.

Something he's good at, he enjoys his job, and it might be ridiculous to say phone sales

is it, but it's just the act of doing something that he is passionate about.

And I was really proud of him, and I was also very proud of myself in that moment because

I had helped someone get to where they really needed to be.

And the truest thing about mentorship is that doesn't always mean that they're going to be

following in your footsteps.

That doesn't mean they're going to end up with you.

But if you're a good mentor, you're going to get people where they need to be,

line up with what they want to do and help them succeed in that.

So that was the, yeah.

All right, so a couple questions for you here.

How long was he with you?

So the after-school program was about three months, and then-

This was high school, right?

He was a youth apprentice?

Yeah, yep, yep.

It was super cool program, loved it.

He got to see a lot of the shop.

And obviously, we were only working together in two-hour segments.

That's a lot different than a full day, right?

So he did about a month and a half, and that's when we started to run into the bumps, right?

The difficulties, the actually getting pushed.

But he took it with strides.

Like he always had the greatest attitude about it, and I'll always appreciate that about him.

But again, that's about when we started to see it.

And if it, yeah.

Well, so that I think is important.

So you have three months invested in this student, and I talk about this a lot,

because I think this is important for people to understand is that

you invested three months with this person, put some time into him, and especially you,

you're personally invested.

You have him over for dinner and are really trying to get to know him.

But this industry and any industry for that matter isn't going to be a fit for everybody.

And I think the earlier they learn that, the better off everybody is, right?

Because say that you would have been back to yourself three years ago,

or gone back to yourself three years ago, and tried to coach him through it.

And you know that this isn't his strength in the kind of in the back of your mind,

even though you're a good person and really has a lot of good traits.

And you look at that, I think it's as important to identify those folks early

and try to get them put into the right path rather than trying to force it through,

which is I think what a lot of us do, right, is they showed interest in it.

They showed some potential.

So then we'll coach through some of the stuff that maybe are red flags,

such as showing up late to work.

And I think you did the right thing.

And it's not a bad thing that you invested the three months there.

And what I find a lot of times, this is probably more of a point than a question,

but what I find a lot of times is that that will oftentimes discourage a shop from bringing on

another youth apprentice after that, because they'll say, well, you know what,

these kids don't have work ethic, these kids aren't, you know, and I think to your point,

it wasn't necessarily that he didn't have work ethic.

It's that it wasn't the right field for him, and that's okay.

Like that's not a bad thing, because now that that kid didn't just go spend

$10,000 on an entry-level toolkit, didn't spend, you know, lots of money on schooling

for something that he's not going to pursue.

Years of time.

Years of time on both ends, right?

So you're talking through the dealership's investment in it,

his personal investment of time into it.

And so as much as we want that to work and fit, it just wasn't.

It was kind of square peg round hole, and that's okay.

Now, I do think there are times where shops will oftentimes get frustrated because of

lack of productivity.

You know, I still think maybe that's the stage of just graduated tech school going into a shop

and then aren't producing time after three months where the shop gets frustrated and fires the

young person.

And I don't always think that's necessarily the right way.

But, you know, I give you a lot of credit, and I love your mindset there in that you were

the one to maybe set him on a better path, even though he might not have known it initially.

It could have a huge, huge positive impact on his life as a whole.

I think it will.

I see him already just so much happier, proud.

He's got more confidence than he did in the trade.

When someone aligns with what they want to do, it's fireworks.

It works.

And I want that for everybody because I was lucky enough to just happen upon mine.

And sometimes that gets me into situations, like I said previously,

where I'll tell people that you can make it work,

but I just have to remember more and more that not everybody is going to follow the

same path as me.

And at the end of the day, as a mentor, your goal is to create someone who's successful,

whether that's automotive industry or anything at all.

You've just got to look at the bigger picture and forcing someone to do something that they're

not going to do well at is just setting them up for failure in a waste of time.

Do you think in a scenario like that, where maybe he goes into phone sales,

he could come back as a service advisor or could maybe he's got a little bit of time in the shop,

which I don't think is a bad thing.

But I always look at that as maybe potential for maybe he finds his footing in sales and feels

maybe a little bit more confident.

Because you've developed that relationship that down the road, you might be,

hey, we've got an open service advisor position.

And I think while you didn't like working on the cars,

this could be something where you could make an even better living for yourself, right?

And use some of those sales skills you built selling phones.

I always kind of look at the opportunities of maybe that boomerang effect and the fact that

you still left on good terms with him might open that door down the road to where

he could come back and go into a position that better fits his skill set.

We still talk on a monthly basis.

He still asks me questions that are obviously not fixing vehicles right at this point,

but he still asks all the soft skill questions.

He still asks, how do I approach my boss with a digital conversation?

And all my apprentices, I try to continue to touch base with them as much as possible.

A few of them have fizzled out, but the ones that really stuck it out,

whether they're an automotive or not, we talk usually on a monthly basis.

I think it's just understanding that when you invest in people, it's not a one and done.

I'm not getting paid for this anymore.

I'm out, right?

You've really got to want to do it all the way.

And that's where it's most rewarding because the ones that I've continued to talk to have

done really well for themselves.

They've found their way in life.

They're getting married at this point.

Some of them, they're starting to understand the bigger picture.

They're going through some of the things that I was going through when I first apprenticed them.

And they get to ask me the questions now about how I would do it and how I would deal with it.

And it's a full circle feeling.

Super proud of it all and hope to continue to invest that much into people.

You should be proud of that.

You've always been that way.

We talked about in past podcasts how you were mentoring even more experienced technicians

and taking the ASC tests.

And I always thought that was a really key sign of a leader or an early sign of a great leader.

And as you progress through this, one of the things I think I'm most proud of you for

is that you're addressing something that I think most technicians have issues with, which is,

and we see this in the Voice of Technician Survey every year, right?

Where they talk about the lack of respect from their leadership.

They talk about the lack of communication from their leadership.

They talk about all of these things.

And at the end of the day, I think technicians like most people just want to know that,

you know what, my boss is in my corner and they have my back.

And in most cases, I would say they probably don't feel that way or not most cases, a lot of cases.

And just you having that personal connection with them shows that you care about them as

a person and you're not just saying that, right?

Because how often do we look at a business and say, you know, the business we'll talk about,

yeah, yeah, we're family.

And all of this stuff that when that person gets inside those four walls,

all of a sudden doesn't feel what they're saying to the public, right?

And so I think there is so much value in what you're doing and you're building

lifelong friends out of it, right?

Like people that even if you're not working alongside them, you're building people that,

you know what, maybe they'll return the favor someday and you just never know how,

but you've got more allies out there than enemies and I never think that's a bad thing.

No, I'm super proud to be able to do that and what was given to me and return it to the industry

because I wouldn't be where I am without people that have done the same for me.

So it's just the right thing to do when you're given that.

But yeah, that was one of the big things from last year that I wanted to share.

I think that lesson is important and it was a hard lesson for me to go through.

Personally, I struggled with it.

I didn't want to let him go and let him.

Oh, firing people sucks.

It's never fun.

Never fun.

And it's hard.

It's just a hard thing to go through on both sides.

I don't think a lot of people maybe understand that.

Now, obviously, if the leader doesn't care, it's probably different.

But for the most part, firing is difficult on both sides is what I can tell you that.

It really, really is.

Now, when you look back at it, I'm always a fan of just kind of reviewing a situation after the

facts and being able to really kind of pick it apart and see where were their opportunities

to maybe have a more successful outcome.

And when I look at something like a youth apprentice,

do you think there were opportunities or maybe not opportunities?

Do you think there were signs that maybe he wasn't going to be a fit from the start,

but you might have kind of talked yourself into?

You know what I'm saying?

Like talk yourself around those things.

There probably was.

I was just probably not experienced enough to catch him.

And looking forward now, and I can tell you my advice to people has changed since dealing with

him because I have always looked for work ethic and want above anything else.

But now, I guess you could say I'm looking for very specifically what they want and what drives them

rather than just more of an open slate that I was before.

So I've refined it a little bit.

How do you think that would change your approach in kind of that initial interview process?

It's going to come down to just asking the right questions.

He was very interested in cars.

He wasn't so much interested in the repairing side.

He loved being there and he liked the challenge, but he didn't get satisfied the

same way that I guess I would after something, right?

And it's hard to tell in the early year because you're not satisfying a lot.

You're really not.

Like there's not many times where you're like, yeah, that was great.

Let's be honest here.

It's a hard thing.

I don't think I'm ever going to get this right.

I think each person's going to be different.

I could tell you that if you were to look at me walking into the automotive industry

when I first started, there's not many people that would have taken me.

And not many people that would have stuck with me long enough to make it work.

So I have a hard time turning people down just based on lack of success early on.

I'm the same way.

I think sometimes you can get something special if you invest enough time,

but it's just knowing that right amount.

I'm not there yet.

I wish I could tell you, Jay.

Also, of course, once I figured it out.

Well, and I do think over time, I've learned some things there too, right?

In that I have seen the technician that comes in and really struggles at first,

but all of a sudden, that light switch goes on and something clicks.

And all of a sudden, they're not like a great technician,

but you can tell they just start to get it.

And there's something to build off of foundationally, right?

Right.

And so like as I dissect this, I do want to dive into this a little bit more

because I think it's fascinating in that when I've always talked about,

especially if you're talking about youth apprenticeships, which if you're a shop out

there not doing youth apprenticeships, I think you need to look at it because

it can have a really, really big impact.

Now, the way I kind of systematically look at it in my head is trying to get students,

it was about to calm kids and I guess in some cases they are, but when you're looking at

that 17-year-old that shows interest in our industry, I'm such a huge fan of getting them

in for a job shadow and really kind of getting to have them work alongside you.

Most of the time, they're going to be really nervous and maybe not in a comfortable position,

so they might not truly act how they really are, if that makes sense.

And the point being, you want to try and figure out exactly what you just said there in that,

do they just think cars are cool or do they like to fix things?

And so as you go through that and if you were to kind of develop a system where you

look at youth apprenticeship, then you go in, I'm sorry, job shadowing into youth apprenticeship,

you might start to find yourself asking better questions and what I love about this is that

if you have the mentality to where you know you're always going to be involved with youth

apprentices, you can then start to tweak your system and you can start to tweak the questions

that you ask and it might be more digging in because they don't have work experience really,

it might be more of looking into what are your hobbies? Were you interested in Legos as a kid

or were you interested in like, you know, tell me a time where maybe you fixed a problem and

you can maybe start to give a little bit more granular with your questions and then kind of

have a notebook on, I asked this question, it really didn't help me understand this person

anymore, or I asked this question, it really got to the core of who they are. And then just

like anything, I think it's a little bit of trial and error and figuring out which questions

really help you understand who they are knowing that they don't have work experience to kind of

pick apart from prior years of experience. So I just think I look at that as a miss on our

industry's end in that a lot of times we just see that kid that's interested in cars and somehow

gets in front of us and we get so excited because it's so hard to find people that all of a sudden

you have this kid that wants to pursue this career and we get all giddy and excited about

this person that wants to come in and a lot of times it is that first two or three weeks or

a month or two that where everything's going well and then everything falls apart when they

really kind of learn what the industry is. And on the opposite side of that, I think we've all

seen the ones where they come up like you where you're genuinely interested, you're trying to

learn more, talking back to how you approach flat rate to start off with and wanting to stay extra

hours to learn how to do something properly, knowing that you're not going to get paid for

those hours. There's just so much where I think we could do ourselves a favor by not hiring quickly

there and really going through a process and do diligence rather than rushing into it because

I think the general perception is well, we're not paying this kid a whole lot. If it doesn't

work, we're just going to let him go, but you're failing to recognize the time investment,

the training investment. And if it's not truly somebody that fits your culture and who you are,

it's probably never going to be a fit. So regardless if they're interested or not,

you have to take those young people pretty seriously because if you don't, there's a pretty

good chance you're going to cycle through them consistently, you're going to get frustrated

with the apprenticeship model as a whole. But I can tell you, it is worth it, even if

everyone doesn't work out, even if you do have some struggles, if you view it as, okay, I'm going to

refine my strategy every time and really refine my system of developing people, you're going to

have a much better team at the end of the day. 100%. I don't think I ever shared this with you,

but I do know from when I came into Corvallis that they had, I think, nine or 10 former T10

students that all fizzled out on them. So I mean, you got to think at the long, the big picture

there is that maybe you could consider one out of 10 successful in that. And by the time I came in

the door, I was a 10th one and they did not have any hope. I can tell you that they did not have any

hope. Well, and the way I make it sound is like, oh, yeah, every single one's gonna work out and

like that is, that is not the case. And I think if you do get to the point to where, you know,

maybe you can get that to one and three workout or one and four workout, you're, yeah, because

you're going through and I think the three that don't work out or the nine that didn't work out,

you don't treat them poorly because they didn't work out in our industry. Because guess what?

They're from a new car dealership perspective. They're probably going to be customers of

yours someday. They're probably like, depending on what their experience is,

you know, all nine of those people are going to go home and tell their families about their

experience there, good, bad or ugly. And so, you know, I think there's more of a long range

play here where you've got to take it seriously. You've got to be able to understand that you are

truly impacting people's lives. And at a young age, you know, I speak, well, I speak from experience,

right? I was the opposite of you. I was probably more like the kid that's selling phones, right?

I started off as a tech and wasn't a very solid tech, but if I were to really kind of dive in

to my own psyche at that point, I would have known like, I like talking to people more than I like

working on cars, right? And so, and for me, it was just, I was brought up in the industry,

just thought that's what I was going to do. So, you know, I just, I do think as you look at this

and moving forward, adjusting your system rather than just kind of completely throwing the program

away is a pretty, pretty big lesson to be had. I fully agree. It takes time and investment and

you're not always going to get it right. We don't, we never expect that anywhere else,

but why would we expect that with apprentices, right? So.

Every shop, dealership and business in our industry depends on great technicians.

Between the technician shortage, disconnected school relationships and lack of trustworthy

workforce data, it makes it difficult for shops to plan higher and grow. That's where ASC Connects

comes in. Created in partnership with Wrenchway, ASC Connects is a membership designed specifically

for shops like yours to help you build a stronger technician pipeline by connecting with schools

empowering you with tools and data to improve your recruiting retention and performance.

With ASC Connects, you can connect with local schools through school assist,

start building relationships and support the programs that educate our future technicians.

You can also access verified data on technician pay, benefits and labor rates through the industry

data exchange so you know how your shop compares locally and nationally. Lastly, you can get

proven strategies for leadership, employee development and shop management through members

only guides, templates and events. Join ASC Connects to strengthen your workforce and build a

stronger, smarter shop. Learn more at wrenchway.com slash solutions slash shops or follow the link

in the show notes. One of the other things that I did that was really exciting for me this year is

I sat, well I didn't sit, I stood in front of 150 technicians and talked to them about something

that probably most technicians don't like talking about or don't like hearing about either.

I don't know how much we've talked on here, Jay, but I think you know that I'm pretty heavily

involved in video MPI. I'm very passionate about it. It's something that I've done for many years

now and so one of the cool things that I got to do this last year was I got to go to all of the

stores in my group and do formal training for technicians. So I got to get them in a classroom

and discuss VMPI, best practices, some of the things that I do, got to play them, my video for

them and I got to get them paid an hour while doing so. So I felt really good about it, but I can

tell you just there was one room specifically, I think I had 33 technicians in there and that

it is a intimidating room when you have 33. They're not all grumpy men, but they might as well be

I don't think any technicians happy getting pulled out of the bay for VMPI training.

Tell them to relax. I got paid an hour. Yeah, I told them I said this takes 45 minutes.

You're getting three tenths. You're getting a cabin filter on the house.

And it was quite a surreal experience getting to do this, but man, did it make me a better public

speaker? Did it make me better at talking to technicians? But at the end of the day, not all

of them took it super seriously, but I did get some that were so grateful for it and some that

made changes that didn't even talk to me at all. And the biggest lesson I learned there was that

while I didn't get a response usually in the group setting, if I would go talk to them at their bay

after the class, I usually got a little bit more out of them. They did take things home. They just

didn't necessarily show it. So that was a crazy experience getting to go to all the different

brands, meeting technicians all across the company and getting to speak to them. It was an awesome,

awesome thing. How nervous were you? The first time, let's see, I practiced the

presentation at least 22 times before I even stepped in a room. Not surprising to me.

And I had to deliver this to all of our leaders. And because it was involving fixed ops,

I had to deliver it to all of our other teachers that teach classes in our group. And then I also

had all of the higher management up there as well. So I had this loaded room of the top

people. And that was probably the most nervous I've ever been delivering to that room.

Because I mean, I had done public speaking before in different settings. Talking to Texas,

one thing, talking to service leaders and high ups, trying to present an idea that most of them

probably don't fully grasp. It was good. But I survived. I made it.

So let me ask you about this part, because there might be some technicians listening to this that

are saying, well, I'd like to do something like that someday. And I do think some of this comes from

your growth mindset, which is what we've talked about in past podcasts, where you're a part of

some groups, you're reading, you're doing a lot of things proactively, that I think maybe are forcing

you to go outside of your comfort zone. And I think that's the most beautiful thing in the world,

right? When you're going outside of your comfort zone and doing things that maybe

you hadn't expected. I think when we did our first podcast, you probably really hadn't done

a lot of that yet, right? You were my first one. And I was just as nervous for that as I was the

class. I can tell you that. And it's all good though, right? Because you kind of keep pushing

yourself to do things maybe you're not comfortable with. And there's a book called The Talent Code

where it talks about the more you do that, the more kind of your brain grows and gets more

comfortable with some of these things. And so one, I commend you for that. But then two, how do

you get an opportunity like that? Like, is that something that you're pursuing the dealership on

or did they see your video MPIs and say, hey, like, you're pretty good at this, we'd like you to show

others? I won the My Karma video challenge. I've won it twice now, which is like a competition

that My Karma runs that, you know, nominates the best videos across the country and you get to win

if they're good and they compete. So that kind of got me in the door. But to be honest with you,

Jay, one of the things to, if you ever want an opportunity in this industry, and I've always

leveraged this, if I'm not asking to get paid for it, and if I'm willing to be a squeaky wheel,

usually those two things together will get you pretty much wherever you want.

In the sense that like, when I initially went out on this, and thankfully they did come to the

table, they paid me for it at the end of the day, but I just wanted to do it. And I told that I never

mentioned dollar amount. And I think that sometimes when you're really pushing and you're trying to do

something that is different and also putting yourself in a realm where you don't know what

you're doing, because I didn't, how can I ask to get paid for something I don't know what I'm doing

on. But if I come in the aspect that I want to learn and I want to do it, and I don't ask for

value upfront, if I don't ask for them to have an ROI, they want to return on investment if they

invest. But if the investment is zero, then you'll usually get the okay, usually no problem at all.

It's a pretty easy answer. So I'm not saying that's the way to do everything.

I think that's a brilliant way to do it though. Like, that's where a lot of people go wrong,

right? They go directly to the money conversation. Or I think, from a leader standpoint, through my

eyes, whenever somebody approaches you with an idea, and like, you kind of get the sense of like,

okay, where's this leading in terms of you getting paid? Or does this mean that you're going to want

more time off? Or, you know, something like that, it almost turns your ears off. But when you come

up with an idea, and I think your ideas, a lot of times, they don't come across as like nagging,

they don't come across as like you're pissed off, they come across as like, you're genuinely trying

to help the organization and try to get better training. And I think there's also some element

to where they see that you're competitive, right? And you, as long as I've known you have been

competitive, whether it's with ASC and everything you've done there, the Subaru competition,

all of this stuff, you're a really, really competitive guy. And I think any business

leader wants to see that, where a lot of, I think there are a lot of technicians that are competitive,

where I think you've done this differently. One is that you're really darn good at your job. I

think that you got to do that before you can ask for stuff, right? You got to be good at your job.

And then two, it's about approach, right? Because if you go and you just become the person that just

complains about everything, it's, you're not going to get anything done. And you're going to have a

hard time getting leadership to see you in a different light if all you do is complain. But

if you're coming with ideas and you're coming with, you know, you, you were good at video MPIs,

makes pretty logical sense that we'd want you to train the rest of our people on that because

we want them doing it the same way as you. You know, there's just a, there's a lot of value in

that, but it's started, it all does start with just being good at your job to begin with and

having the heart to, to really kind of compete on some of this stuff. I think, yeah, you're,

you're right. I mean, you do have to start with the basics. You can't jump straight to that stuff.

But like I said, for me, it's just always been willing to leverage my time. It goes back to

the flat rate, the mindset that you were just mentioning earlier, right? I didn't get paid to

learn all the time back then. And then so I try to apply that to different aspects of my life.

Now, some people will find this absolutely crazy, but I just, I have a hard time asking for something

if I don't know what I'm going to deliver. And once I can deliver it, once I'm consistently

able to do it, then I am okay getting paid for it. I feel like I expect to be paid for it.

I expect, but I have to provide the value first. And if an organization is going to let me do

something and learn and, and, and grow with it, then I'm just as excited to put my investment

into it as well. And then there, like I said, there's always that time where you have found

that magic mix and you feel like, okay, I feel like I need some reciprocation on this. But it's,

it's really hard to ask for that out of the gate unless you have a very proven track record

about what you're doing. But I'm always trying to do things that I have no idea what I'm doing,

to be honest with you. I still look for that same feeling that I had early on, which is just,

I don't know what I'm doing here. I have this idea, let's see where it goes. And that's kind of

where this took me. And it, man, did it turn out to be a fun time. And I got so much experience

from it. I got to travel a little bit around Texas. It was just really cool. It was a great

experience all, all in. And I'm so grateful that I stood up and did something that made me so,

so very uncomfortable. And I can tell you now that I can speak in front of a group of at least 33.

You know, 35 might break the bank. We don't know for sure.

I think you're going to be fine. I think you're going to be fine.

And if I can deal with that crowd, I can deal with any crowd, right? That's the,

that's the way I see it. So I got a lot from it. I got to improve my videos by talking to

technicians that do it as well, because I don't know at all. I don't teach like

to change their way of doing things. I just want them to have the skills to do it a little bit

better and a little bit more polished. I like that. I never try to overreach a technician's

ability to do something their way, because that's what we love about technicians is that you tell

them to do it one way. And, and I swear to God, in three tries, they're going to find the better

way to do it. And it'll be faster, more efficient, and the quality will still be the same. I mean,

that's, that's the beauty of it. And that's what I've always appreciated about technicians.

Yeah. And I think that's not specific to technicians either when you were talking about

kind of the demographic of the crowd, the ones that are interested, the ones that aren't,

it doesn't matter if you're speaking to a room of 10, half of them aren't going to care. If you

speak to a room of 1,500 aren't going to care, right? Like, I think it's, it's whatever, whatever,

I think the, the high performers are typically the ones in a lot of those classes. And when I say

high performers, you might have high hour output from technicians that you would consider as,

as high performers, but I think we all know there are some high hour folks that maybe don't

necessarily have the best attitudes and, and they, you know, they're definitely a step below,

like when you look at technicians, the high, high achievers in terms of hours that have good

attitudes are kind of the pinnacle. And a pretty drastic step below that is high hour producers

that have terrible attitudes. And there's a lot of space in between those two, right? And, and so

when you look at somebody to go and do this type of training, I have to imagine from the dealer

standpoint, they look at it and say, okay, I'm not going to put Johnny with a terrible attitude

out there to talk to our entire crew because I don't want, I don't want our staff acting like

that. Like that's not going to be fun, but it's because you've carried yourself in a certain way

and that you're doing this other, this other stuff. And I think maybe the most important piece of

this conversation so far is your willingness to invest time. And when I say invest, I say

invest, not waste time, invest time early on, knowing that there might not be an immediate

payoff and understanding that by investing this time and, and really working hard at it,

I'm going to get a payoff someday. It's just like putting money in the stock market, right? You

assume that like you're going to, as you add that stuff up, it's going to, it's going to pay off

for you and it very much has for you. Yeah. Yeah. And like I said, I have no idea where I'm going

to end up, but I'm just going to keep taking those opportunities as they come along, which

it's that way is perfect into the next section here, which is we had an opportunity to go into

recon. So after being settled in for about a year and some change at this point, I had an

opportunity to step into the recon department. We had some issues back there. I won't go into all

the details there, but basically we needed to make some, make some changes. So very uncomfortable

move again, because I was pretty happy with where I was at. I was a little bit bored doing the same

thing on a car every day. I can tell you that much. I didn't, I wasn't getting challenged in

that way anymore, but I was, I had a very cushed job, like best bays in the shop by far. I have

air conditioning. I mean this, everything is set up. Like if you're talking a prime thing,

I can make money. There's no reason to be looking anywhere else. And there's an opportunity that

comes up to go be a recon technician and use car technician for maybe people that don't know,

but basically these roles and dealerships are seen as like the bottom most of the time. Like

maybe entry level, but also these people are just known as being parts hangers. Like just like

they're not known to be high end technicians. So when I originally kind of had this opportunity

pop up, what excited me about it was All Makes All Models. I've been talking about being a dealer

technician my entire career. Luckily working on Subaru and Toyota early on taught me that I'd

not just a one trick pony. I don't just do Toyotas. I don't just do Subaru's. I've worked on All Makes

All Models my entire career. Though this was like, okay, well let's see how good you really are.

Because any dealer technician, the second you take the brand away, the familiarity,

you're uncomfortable again. You really are because working on a Land Rover is not the

same as a Subaru. It's not. The resources are different. What I have available to me, I don't

have the same support system. So it's very, very uncomfortable. And of course, with me,

that kind of excited me and is like, okay, well, maybe I need to go over here and try to learn how

to do All Makes All Models. The really cool thing too, was the unique opportunity that I got to

build and train my own team at this point. So they gave me full reign. At one point, I was the only

recon technician over there, which was absolute insanity would never do that again. Especially

high volume dealership like that. Yeah, it was like 50 cars a week. It was stupid. I didn't keep

up. Don't get me wrong. There's no way I could have done it. So that's why we started a poll help.

And I don't know if you've ever tried to hire for an All Makes All Models technician at a dealership

that works on Subaru's, but it's a little bit difficult. Like the people that you're trying

to recruit are already in independent shops. They have hourly guarantees there. You're not

getting the talent, right? So we basically came to the conclusion, well, I guess we're going to have

to train up from Express. So we started pulling some Express technicians and I started to get

apprenticeships times four, times three, all at once, which added to the crazy.

So does that seem logical? Like you go from the Lube Bay there. So you've got some familiarity.

As long as there's some supervision and some training associated with it, it feels like a

really logical system. Yeah. And I think it definitely is. And you catch the technicians

before they're comfortable in just one brand. I think that's really important.

Oh, yeah.

Because again, if you expose them early on to that you fix cars, not that you fix Subaru's,

it really changes their mindset. And that skill set goes a long way in the long term,

the same way that I kind of got that early on for me. But this was a big challenge for me.

Not only was I tackling the All Makes All Models, getting just beat up constantly on a

daily basis now, experiencing what the independent shops do. Yeah, I have sympathy for those

independent shops out there. I always have. I always respect the guys that do that job.

Luckily, I didn't have to work on like super, super old stuff, right? I got to avoid that

still. And you don't have rust down there. So yeah, I'm not going to listen to your complaining.

Yeah, exactly. But I did get to experience that and it gained more respect for that,

of course, but also made me better as a technician again. That's just the truth of it.

But getting to train these young kids and running for apprentices basically at once,

I mean, it got crazy. I also had a kid at the same time, which just adds in just like layers

and layers. You were crazy enough to do the whole move, have a kid. Yes, that's what I'm saying.

Yeah, yeah, you had a lot of stuff going on. Yes, it was a lot all at once. And I survived,

as you can see, I'm sitting here today. But it was a very rewarding experience. I got to completely

turn the department around. We really got to do some awesome, awesome things. And I'm still doing

that today, continuing that. And yeah, but man, was that a ride? Same thing as what we talked about

with the youth apprentice. I think there's so much value in from the dealership's perspective of being

able to deploy you into fixing the recon department, right? Because now, when you send one of your more

experienced people and one of your better people to a what is perceived as a lesser position,

and they fix things, you learn so much in that process and things that you can change and things

that and even for you, it has to feel like I'm having an impact on this this dealership at a

greater level. And so you're almost turning into that fixer, right? The one that you're teaching

people how to do video MPIs, you're helping fix the recon department. And people like that are so

incredibly valuable. And at the same time, selfishly from your end, you're getting to learn all aspects

of that dealership. And you know, that I think help in the long, long range outlook of your career,

you're getting experience in all these different departments, and you're doing all of this stuff

where you truly get an understanding of it. And I always said early on in my career, when I got

kind of thrust into that fixed ops manager type role or director role, fixed abstractor role,

you, I didn't go through all of the positions, I didn't know the parts department very well,

and I knew it kind of, and I did research and really studied it. But it's one thing to do that,

but I've really hadn't worked behind a parts counter. You know, I'd worked on a parts phone

before and did kind of customer service on the part side really, really in my career.

And I love that job. So I had some understanding of it, but the depth of like actually going into

that department and working behind a parts counter every day, I did not do. And similar to you on

the service side, as you're kind of building up your background, you become more and more valuable,

right? Because now you're getting all of that experience and you understand, you know, systematically

to where like maybe someday when you were sitting in that the big manager's chair,

like being able to kind of have an understanding of how everything functions and in a really,

really intimate way. And knowing like, I think there's so much value, again, talking to Josh 10

years from now, where you could, you know, if you're directing somebody, and maybe they're trying to

BS you a little bit, and you can say, no, like, I know how this department works. Like, I know

everything about it. It's, it makes a much, much better manager. I'll tell you that.

Yeah. And I don't know where it's going to lead me. And like I said, it's just been

kind of rolling with it and the opportunity rolls up and just being able to take that.

And the kind of the last thing I wanted to cover here, and this is so important to technicians,

that I feel like, I feel like this is hard. And what I mean by this is like, so a technician's

going to reach a point in their career and probably more so nowadays than ever before,

because of the market that we have for technicians. But like, I don't know if you've

ever been asked this question, but I've been asked by my apprentices a lot and people I mentor and

just people I'm around is like, when do I take an opportunity? When do I, when do I leave where

I'm currently at to pursue something else? And when do I step into that? And as someone who's now

done it quite a few times, probably one too many at the current standpoint, I just think that the

biggest thing that I've learned in all the per, the moves that I've made in my career is that

it's trusting your gut. Usually when people come to me and they ask me, you know, what do you think

about this? When should I go? I tell them that the answer is pretty much the same every time is that

you already know your answer. You want me to tell you to validate it. Yeah, you want me to give you

the confirmation so that you can step into that uncomfortable feeling of, you know what your job

is right now, you know what your toolbox is, you know where all your stuff is, everything's comfortable.

You want me to tell you that you should stay in that or you should go just because

you already know your answer, you just don't want to admit it, you know, and that's hard.

It's easier said than done as someone that's sat in that opportunity, it's easy to zoom out and be

like, yeah, of course, like that's no brainer, duh. But when you're in that moment, it's difficult.

It really is. And I feel for technicians that have to go through that. And sometimes that

decision is forced upon you by something that is done. Sometimes that decision is something that

pops up in just conversation. And you don't realize how quickly it can happen. But it puts

you in a really uncomfortable state. It really does. It's a great thing to talk about.

What I'll say from my experience and really kind of what I've learned over the years and

just, I think you have to ask yourself why you're making the move or considering making

the move in the first place, right? Because if it's strictly money driven, I don't think you're

always going to end up in a better place and you might have more money because of it, but

you might be miserable. And I made that move at one point in my career. And I almost immediately

regretted it as soon as I walked in the doors. I'm like, this was a terrible idea. And when I look

back at it, I just always think if you're at a place where you truly enjoy the people that you're

around and you are, you know, somewhat comfortable, but maybe you want the growth.

I hope you have the conversation or give the shop that you're at at least the opportunity to have

the conversation with you. Because I think the more open and candid you are, and this is something

I wish I would have handled differently when I was younger, but I think the more open and

candid you are with your team. And then, you know, I think you have to manage your expectations a

little bit more early on in your career too, right? Similar to what you were talking about and putting

the time investment in and then not having the immediate expectation of getting paid.

You know, I think, I do think this is where a lot of our young people get themselves into trouble

a little bit is they'll hop around to get themselves erased every time. And while that might be better

for them financially early on, I think it might hurt them later on. And the later on is the

important part because that's where you'll actually make some money, right? And so, you know,

I think if you can live within your means and be comfortable with the salary you're making, granted,

maybe you're not going to get that boat immediately. But if you can delay that satisfaction

just a little bit, you know, and, you know, I think looking back early on in my career,

I always felt like I was getting behind, right? Like I was like, oh, you know, I've been stuck

in this position for two years, I can't be stuck here. And when you look back over the course

of your career, two years is nothing. And even five years is nothing. And if you can get great at

what you do, be like the people that you work with, I think that is such an underrated part,

right? And I think where a lot of technicians get miserable is maybe they do make those hops

and keep, keep hopping. And they might along the way find a shop that they really like,

and they like the managers, and they like the ownership group, and they like the people that

they're working with. And regardless, there's probably one grumpy old guy like in the corner

somewhere. Like it's more, I think, such an underrated piece to happiness. I think if you

really search for happiness versus just the dollar, I think there's so much value in that.

And I do think the dollar comes as a result. It's more of, I think where if you're constantly

searching for that $3 raise, that $5 raise, whatever it is, I don't think you're ever

going to be happy. And I think that's where you have to be able to understand that the people

around you, wherever you're working, have such a huge impact on your happiness because you spend

so much time with them. And so I, you know, I just, I look at that. And then you see

people that have stuck with the same company and have put in the effort and done really,

really well. And seeing their progression, it might not be the immediate like, oh, he jumped

from here to here, but like, took steps, steps and truly learned every piece

of the operation. And I think that's the key is if you get into a place that you really,

really enjoy and like, and then you can help one, I think it's easier to buy into the grander

vision of the company, right? Because you get in there and you see, you know, maybe that path

and you see others that have been promoted from within and you start to kind of look at that.

Now, could you skip around your way to get to the same spot? Yes. And it's just more, if you find

that place, and if I were to tell myself something as a younger person coming into this industry,

if you find that spot where people, you just love the people you work with,

that makes life so much easier. And when you go into battle every day, that is such an underrated

piece. Yeah, yeah. Having a good support system is crucial. And just to technicians that struggle

with that choice, it's more than just a dollar, you know, and sometimes an opportunity will

actually come at less dollars. I can tell you, I've seen that before too. And, you know, especially

when you're progressing to a new role from a technician, sometimes that dollar amount is

going to be less. And that's uncomfortable as well. But just trusting your gut and knowing

what you want and being willing to get uncomfortable are things that, if you get uncomfortable,

being uncomfortable as cheesy as that line sometimes is sad. It is truth that if you just

accept that, you know, sometimes things aren't going to be comfy all the time. It makes things

whole lot easier. And that's, I think I read somewhere not too long ago, like, if you're

comfortable, you should feel uncomfortable because something bad's about to happen, right? You kind

of have to keep pushing yourself. And I think the more you can, and as somebody like a business

owner now for nine years, nine plus years, I've had no choice myself. But I also think it's

created so much growth in me and so much of the ability to understand maybe the grander picture

of things. That's one opportunity, I think, for technicians to really dive into as well, is like,

how do I understand the grand scheme of things? And maybe, you know, we talk about this a lot,

and I think I've talked to you about this before, but understanding the difference between

the posted labor rate and what I'm being paid. And there's a big variance there,

but understanding there's a lot that goes into that variance there, right? Like, there's a lot

of overhead and the cost of insurance, taxes, so much that goes into that.

And granted, are they making money as shops? Absolutely. Do we need them to make money as

shops? Absolutely. Otherwise, there aren't going to be any new tools. There aren't going to be

the new facilities and the stuff that you need to be happy. So I just think that part

is oftentimes underrated as well, just the understanding of the business as a whole. But

great advice in general from you two, those younger techs. And I do think even more experienced techs,

like, that's almost where you kind of want to push them a little bit too to say,

okay, if you already have the answer and you're just looking to me for validation.

Tough love. Tough love comes. Yeah. And I see it a lot. And it's just, I've been there. I've

been uncomfortable. I mean, for God's sake, I moved halfway across the country with a three-month-old.

I don't think I'll ever be that. You're glutton for punishment. Yeah, I guess so. Flat rate

has taught me that. I guess that's what I can say. Man, well, you keep doing great things.

And I think your passion for being able to share that with others is hugely important. It's why

you've been our most frequent guest on the show. It's always, like, I'm always learning

something from you and just hearing through kind of how you're approaching things. And

in my eyes, you're really setting an example for so many others in the industry

on not just settling, but constantly getting better, constantly. We talk about ASC and your

pursuit of that. And just like, not even just ASC, like all the factory certifications,

all that, like, you're trying to, you're literally trying to drink from a fire hose. You're trying

to do all of this stuff. And you're doing phenomenally at so much of it. So I think you're

a perfect example of what's great about the industry and the opportunities that come for those

that really work hard and have a positive attitude and do things the right way and truly care for

the people. I think that maybe makes me the most proud is how you're treating other people as you're

kind of through the steps of the journey, right, of your career. And yeah, you just,

you have a good heart. And I think we need more people with that good heart to help kind of

move this industry in the right spot. And I hope by the most part about hopping on here and talking

this, not only does it make fun to watch in a couple of years, but I just want people to know

that it's not all sunshine and roses over here. It sometimes looks like that from the outside,

especially now I found it later in my career. Early on, you don't get that same effect on

younger texts. But now when I have the master status, when I have some successes under my belt,

people will think that it comes a little bit easier than it is. And I hate to be one of those

guys that, you know, all this and that. And I tell them all the time, I'm like, I know I wouldn't

believe this when I was your age, but there was a lot that went behind this. And just being able to

try to provide that reality to some younger people, even though probably half of them won't

listen like I didn't, which I can understand. Nor did I. And you kind of get like when we were

younger, the old guys being like, you know, this younger generation, you know, and you're like,

yeah, I kind of wasn't know it all. And now I look back at it and I'm like,

I wish I would have turned on my listening ears a little bit more at that time,

it's depending on who it was. But, you know, you say that, and then you also,

we talked about that grumpy guy in the corner of the shop. Maybe not the person to listen to

for the most part there. I will say some of my best friends's day have been that grumpy guy in

the shop. And they did teach me some things, maybe not attitude things, but, you know, there's

technical things or, you know, ways to do things. Like, I think if you can manage your emotions

around folks like that, you can learn stuff from them. And it's just knowing that everybody has

strengths, everybody has weaknesses. A lot of times that grumpy guy in the shop, their strength

isn't going to be mentorship or being friends with everybody, right? It's just being able to get to

know them a little bit. And even that case, if you show them you care and you listen to them

when they say something, it can be oftentimes be very beneficial. But yeah, man, all in all,

just another phenomenal conversation. Just always enjoy having you on. And you're just a great

friend to me. And I just appreciate all your support. Like we've always talked about, you just

kind of keep pushing the limits and keep doing great things. And I love being able to help

be a part of chronicling it. Yeah, no, it's been fantastic. I appreciate your support and

putting it out there so I can watch in a couple of years. Anytime, man, we'll keep doing it.

We'll keep doing it. Yeah, yeah, sounds great. All right. Well, best of luck. Keep us posted on how

things are going and we'll follow up hopefully in another, who knows how long, we'll do it again.

Yes, sir. All right. Thank you.

That wraps up another episode of Beyond the Wrench. If you like this episode, please show

your support by rating and following the podcast. You can also watch the video interviews on

Wrenchway's YouTube channel. Speaking of Wrenchway, Beyond the Wrench is managed and produced by the

Wrenchway team. Wrenchway is dedicated to promoting and improving careers in the automotive, diesel,

and collision industries. In partnership with ASC, we run the ASC Connects community which

empowers shops and dealerships with reliable data, school connections, and industry insights

while helping grow the future technician workforce. You can learn more by visiting

Wrenchway.com. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week.

Mentorship, Career Moves, & Trusting Your Gut as a Technician

About this episode

50 cars a week

All Makes All Models technician

independent shops

hourly guarantees

Express technicians

apprenticeships

Lube Bay

Flat rate

ASC

factory certifications

Request an Explanation

Want to learn more?

Help improve this episode

More from Beyond the Wrench