The podcast mentions a Ferrari called the Luce in a story about trying to raise money. It’s brought up because the speaker’s advisor suggested a plan related to that car. The conversation doesn’t focus on how it works—more on the situation around it.
“EVs” stands for electric vehicles—cars powered primarily by electricity stored in a battery rather than by gasoline combustion. In the transcript, the speaker frames EVs as part of staying on Ferrari’s VIP list, suggesting a shift toward electrification.
They say they partnered with Lotus for an upcoming event. Lotus is a car brand that’s especially known for making lightweight, fun-to-drive sports cars.
An engine refresh means the shop is taking the engine apart enough to replace worn parts and fix issues like leaks. The goal is to make the engine run smoothly again without necessarily replacing the whole engine.
The “drive line” is the set of parts that send power from the engine to the wheels. If it’s making noise, something may be worn, loose, or not aligned correctly.
An OEM part is the same kind of part the car maker would install at the factory. They’re comparing it to a non-OEM component that was causing contact and noise.
“Making contact” means a part is rubbing or hitting something else. That can cause annoying noises, and fixing it usually means finding what’s touching and why.
The Miata is a small two-seat car made for driving on twisty roads. It’s popular because it’s light and feels responsive. The speaker mentions it as a backup option.
“Cars and coffee” is a car meetup where people bring their cars and hang out, usually with coffee nearby. It’s more about meeting other enthusiasts than racing or buying cars.
It’s a comparison about driving feel: sometimes a “slower” car is more fun because you can really use it. But a “faster” car can feel stressful if you have to constantly watch your speed.
This is a newer version of the Porsche 911 GT3 (the 992.2 update). The point is that this specific GT3 generation feels especially impressive to drive.
Here, “isolation” means the car does a better job of keeping the roughness and noise of the road from reaching you. The goal is a smoother, more comfortable drive.
Concept
sense of speed
“Sense of speed” is how fast the car feels like it’s going to you. Two cars at the same speed can feel different because of noise, vibration, and how the steering and acceleration feel.
Concept
technical roads
“Technical roads” are twisty, challenging roads with lots of turns and changes in the driving situation. They make it easier to feel how well the car handles.
The Emira is a sports car made by Lotus. It’s designed to be fun and agile to drive. The podcast brings it up while listing other cars in the same general conversation.
The BMW E30 M3 is the original M3 generation. People like it because it’s fun to drive and handles well, not just because it’s fast in a straight line.
Treadwear is a number that gives a rough idea of how long a tire will last. Tires with a lower-ish number like “500” can wear faster and may not grip as well as track-focused tires.
“Brakes locked up” means the wheels stopped turning and started sliding. It can happen when you brake too hard for the available grip, and it makes the car harder to control.
It means you braked so hard that the wheels stopped turning and started sliding. Sliding tires don’t grip as well, so braking can become less effective.
“Double yellow” means the road markings where passing is usually not allowed. The speaker is saying they didn’t cross into an area where passing would be illegal.
RPM tells you how fast the engine is spinning. When you’re up around 6,500 RPM, you’re typically driving it hard and the engine is working near where it feels strongest.
“Pin it” means to accelerate aggressively, usually by flooring the throttle. In enthusiast talk, it implies pushing the car to get maximum response and speed quickly.
Power-to-weight ratio compares how much power the car has to how heavy it is. A higher ratio usually makes the car feel quicker and more eager to move.
“Gearing” is how the car’s gears are set up. It affects how quickly the engine revs when you shift, which changes how smooth and responsive the car feels.
Heel-and-toe is a driving trick for downshifting. While you’re braking, you “blip” the gas so the engine speed matches the lower gear, making the car feel smoother instead of jerky.
“Air-cooled” means the engine is cooled using airflow instead of mostly using liquid coolant. The speaker is saying they like that air-cooled Porsche character.
Concept
happy medium
Here, “happy medium” means finding a balance. The speaker wants something that feels smooth enough to live with, but still has enough power to keep up.
A manual transmission is the kind of car where you shift gears yourself. You use a clutch pedal and a gear stick, instead of the car shifting automatically.
The Cayman is a Porsche sports car with the engine placed in the middle of the car. It’s a coupe, meaning it has a fixed roof. The podcast mentions it when talking about what people chose for transmissions during the 718 generation.
The Boxster is a Porsche sports car with the engine in the middle and a convertible-style body. It’s designed for driving enjoyment, especially on good roads. The podcast mentions it while discussing how many buyers chose manual transmissions.
The Carrera GT is a very high-performance Porsche supercar. It’s the kind of car people talk about when discussing rare, top-tier performance models. In the podcast, it’s mentioned as part of a list of Porsche cars.
The Porsche 911 GT3 is a performance Porsche built with track driving in mind. Here, they’re talking about how many buyers pick a manual gearbox versus an automatic on the GT3.
The Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing is the bigger, stronger version of Cadillac’s performance sedan lineup. They’re comparing how many buyers choose manual versus automatic.
The Toyota GR Supra is a modern performance version of the Supra. They mention it because it’s one of the sports cars where some buyers can choose a manual.
The BMW M2 is a sporty BMW built by BMW’s performance division. They mention it because buyers sometimes choose the manual version, depending on the car.
The GR Supra is a Toyota sports car designed to be quick and fun to drive. The podcast mentions it while comparing how many people choose certain options, like manual transmissions, across different models.
The BRZ is a small sports car made to handle well and feel fun to drive. The podcast mentions it because a large percentage of buyers choose a certain option, like manual. It’s part of a comparison across several sports models.
A gearbox is the part of the car that changes gears to control how the engine delivers power. Here they’re saying your driving style—street cruising versus track driving—often affects whether you want a manual or automatic.
A “wing” here is the rear spoiler on the car that helps with aerodynamics. They’re talking about why a black version of that spoiler is common on street cars rather than cars built mainly for track days.
The BMW M4 is BMW’s performance car that’s typically the two-door version compared with the M3. The hosts are saying it’s often lighter and that track-day buyers may prefer it, especially with easier shifting options.
“Paddle shift” means you change gears using buttons/paddles on the steering wheel instead of a stick shift. The idea is that it can be faster and less tiring during track driving.
“Sweepers” are the long, sweeping turns on a track. They’re talking about how skilled drivers can stay fast through those corners.
Term
arrow on the car
They’re basically talking about the car’s rear spoiler/wing that helps the car stick to the road. They’re saying that when the aero is working, drivers feel more confident going fast.
NASA is referenced as an organization that runs track events (commonly the National Auto Sport Association). In the segment, it’s used to illustrate that many drivers come from different groups but still mostly do recreational track activity.
“Porsche club” refers to a Porsche enthusiast club that organizes track activities and group events. The speaker uses it as an example of the kinds of communities that bring drivers to circuits.
“HPDE” stands for High Performance Driver Education. It’s a common track-day format focused on driver training and learning car control, often with instructors and rules that prioritize safety over racing.
Lap time is the measured time it takes to complete one circuit around the track. Even in non-racing track days, many drivers use lap times as a personal benchmark to improve driving technique.
Data acquisition is recording what the car is doing while you drive—things like speed and pedal inputs. People use it to learn what to change to go faster.
Heel-toe downshifting is a driving technique used when slowing down and shifting to a lower gear. It helps the engine and transmission work together smoothly so the car doesn’t jerk.
The Porsche Cayman GTS is a sporty Porsche with the engine mounted behind the front seats. In this story, it’s the example of someone who chose the manual version for track driving.
“Blipping” means a quick rev of the engine right before you shift down. It helps the car shift smoothly instead of feeling like it lurches.
Concept
spec Miata racing
“Spec Miata” racing means the cars are kept fairly similar by rules. That way, racing success depends more on driving skill and tuning within the allowed limits.
Gross margin is a way to measure how profitable a product is. It tells you how much money is left after the basic cost to make the car, before other business costs.
ICE vehicles are regular gas or diesel cars. The speaker is saying some cities are limiting them, which changes what kinds of cars people can drive there.
They’re talking about the Lamborghini Urus, which is Lamborghini’s SUV. The host’s point is that this SUV sells so well it makes up most of Lamborghini’s sales.
They’re talking about a Ferrari called the 296. It’s a modern Ferrari that’s known for being fast and desirable, and the host is saying it’s a great car.
Depreciation means the car becomes worth less money over time. They’re wondering how fast a super-expensive EV might drop in price after people have had it for a while.
The secondary market is where you’d buy the car after someone else already owned it. They’re asking what the Luce might sell for after it’s been out for a bit.
Pura Sangue is a Ferrari they’re using as an example. The point is that even though it’s not a tiny lightweight sports car, it can still feel sporty to drive, especially in how it handles.
Handling is how the car feels when you turn and slow down. They’re saying the Luce might feel lighter and easier to steer than its weight would normally suggest.
Term
weight will suggest
Heavier cars usually feel harder to steer quickly and can feel less “quick” in corners. They’re saying Ferrari might engineer the Luce to feel more agile than you’d expect.
They’re mentioning Jony Ive, a famous designer known for tech products. Here, they’re talking about whether a techy, gadget-like interior design will appeal to buyers.
Brand
Pura Songway
I can’t confidently identify which car this refers to because the name looks garbled in the transcript. If you can share the surrounding lines or the correct spelling, I can annotate it properly.
Morgan is a British car brand famous for classic, retro-looking sports cars. The hosts mention that Morgan has traditionally used a wooden chassis, and now they’re updating the cars while keeping the old-school vibe.
Car
SuperSport 400
The Morgan SuperSport 400 is a new Morgan model the hosts are talking about. They’re especially interested in how its modern engine and power will change the car—especially how it sounds.
A wooden chassis means the car’s structure uses wood as part of the frame. The hosts mention Morgan’s traditional approach, which helps explain the brand’s classic, old-school identity.
The BMW B58 is a BMW engine design (an inline-six) that’s boosted with a turbocharger. Turbocharging helps it make strong power, and the hosts are also debating whether it will sound as good as a naturally aspirated setup.
“Turbo fours” are turbocharged engines with four cylinders. The hosts are saying that, in their opinion, these engines don’t always sound as good as engines with more cylinders.
A turbocharger is a device that uses the car’s exhaust to spin a fan that pushes extra air into the engine. That extra air helps the engine make more power.
A V8 is an engine with eight cylinders arranged in a V shape. Here they’re talking about a V8 that can rev higher, which usually feels more exciting when you drive.
They’re talking about a 2021 BMW 3 Series they use every day. It’s brought up as the real-world example that makes the “overrated” comment hit closer to home.
The R35 Nissan GT-R is a famous fast Nissan from the late-2000s onward. It’s known for being very quick and capable, and the host is talking about whether it lives up to the hype.
The Model Y is an electric SUV made by Tesla. The podcast mentions it because the speaker is comparing it to another Tesla they drove. The point is about how the cars feel and compare to each other.
The Tesla Model S is an electric luxury sedan. The hosts are comparing it to another car’s feel—especially how it behaves when you press the accelerator.
“C8” means the newer generation of the Chevrolet Corvette. The host is saying it works well for road trips because it’s comfortable and stable over distance.
The Skyline is a Nissan performance car that has been made in many versions over the years. The podcast mentions the R33 and other generations to explain which one the speaker likes most. It’s mainly about personal preference among Skyline models.
This is the host talking about today’s turbo engines. They’re saying that, even with all the modern tech, the cars they’ve driven haven’t felt as impressive as they hoped.
This is the older Porsche 911 Turbo generation (the “930” era). The host thinks these older Turbos are especially beautiful and memorable compared with newer ones.
GT class is a type of race category for cars that start from normal sports cars but are modified for racing. The host is using it to say Porsche uses racing to keep the 911 feeling sporty.
A four-cylinder engine has four cylinders that work together to make power. Here, the host is comparing it to the older Porsche six-cylinder engines they prefer.
The Porsche Cayman 718 is a smaller Porsche sports car with the engine mounted behind you. The host is saying they drove several versions and liked them, even though they’re not the same as the older six-cylinder feel.
A flat-six is an engine with six cylinders arranged in a sideways “boxer” layout. The host prefers that engine feel compared with the Cayman’s four-cylinder turbo.
“GT” means grand touring—cars that are meant to feel comfortable while still being quick. The host is saying the 911 feels more like a cruiser than a sharp, small sports car.
“Cowl shake” means the car shakes or vibrates near the front, around where the windshield sits. It can make the car feel less solid or less smooth, and that’s what the speaker is complaining about.
The Lotus Elise is a small, lightweight sports car known for being fun to drive. The speaker is using it as an example of how enjoyable driving can be even without going to a race track.
Air-cooled cars cool the engine using air flowing over it, not liquid coolant. Enthusiasts often like them because the driving experience can feel more raw and connected.
“Targa” is a type of roof design where you can open up the car, but it still keeps a protective frame. The hosts are talking about how that affects how the car feels when you drive it hard.
Formula One is a racing series at the highest level. Their cars don’t use the traditional manual gearbox with a clutch pedal, which is why they’re used as an example in this argument.
Here, “automatic” means the car changes gears for you. On a racetrack, that can help the car shift at the right time without relying on the driver.
Concept
romanticize
Here, “romanticize” means people focus on how cool and satisfying manual driving feels, not just how fast it is. It’s about the experience as much as the results.
Heel-and-toe downshifting is a technique for slowing down for a corner while changing to a lower gear. You briefly rev the engine as you shift so the car doesn’t jerk, and it feels smoother and more controlled.
LIVE
Hey everybody, welcome back to Full Throttle Talk.
I'm Blair Smith and I've got my buddy Shanu here with me again.
Shanu, how you doing?
Hey, Blair.
Doing good, man.
I'm recording here from Vegas here for a family wedding.
Sweet.
Well, we're happy to get you wherever and it's nice you can support the family and do
the wedding thing.
Now, are you going to get a run out to Spring Mountain while you're down there?
That's the real question.
Yeah, that was the original plan, but it's not coming together here, so I don't think
this weekend is going to be a track weekend for me, so unfortunately.
Well, you've got your priorities straight.
You're putting your family first ahead of your track addiction, and yeah, I'm happy
to hear that.
So, not here is Tim Harris once again, but my understanding is he sent in a dispatch
from Puerto Rico you've got for us.
Welcome to Full Throttle Talk, the podcast where horse power meets conversation from
supercars to classic legends, high revving tech to motorsport mayhem.
We covered all straight from the driver's seat, whether you're a gear head eraser or
just love the thrill of the open road, you're in the right place.
Buckle up, hit the gas and let's go full throttle into today's episode.
He sure did.
He sure did.
So let me read it off because this one's a good one, I think.
So here it is from Tim Harris.
We stole our house in Puerto Rico to raise cash for a Ferrari luce.
My advisor Claude suggested that if we want to stay on Ferrari's VIP list, we need to
get one of these EVs.
As Denise McCluggage used to say, you can live in your Ferrari, but you can't drive
a house.
So I'm with her and frankly trying to stay on my own all those good side.
Sorry, missed you another week.
I'll see you all soon.
Tim Harris.
Well, Tim, thanks for the update.
That was a good one.
And I agree with Denise.
I'm glad you're following her advice.
You can't drive your house, but a Ferrari luce, we're going to talk more about it for
a very large sum of money.
You will be able to drive that thing and sleep in it.
So thanks for the update, Tim.
We're sorry to not have you here, but we're happy to get anything we can from you.
So moving right in, she knew if we can, before we get in Ferrari luce, what did you do in
cars this week?
You've always got lots of interesting stuff happening.
It was a fun week, you know, my, in fact, right behind me, you know, is a little picture
of a t-shirt we have had made for an upcoming event in June where we partnered up with Lotus
of Detroit or Auto Europe to put together a run into Marietta, Ohio.
I know I've, I think I've talked about it in the past, but a bunch of great, great roads
down there.
We're going to go with a bunch of clients.
I don't know.
I think we've got 25 some people coming down with us to have a lot of fun and go for a drive.
Yeah, I'm super stoked about that.
You know, in the shop, we've had a couple of things happening.
We, we, we've got this 964 C2 engine refresh that's going to get back in, put back into
the car.
So we've got to dress the engine, get it back in it.
So excited to get, get going on that project.
Is this the standard like 964 leaking oil, you know, just
Yeah, typical stuff.
And this car has, you know, over 50,000 miles just over.
And so, you know, a typical thing is the head is, it's, it's a good time to kind of refresh
the head at that point.
And, and with some of the updates that, you know, some of these good builders know,
it pretty much takes care of some of the weaknesses.
So yeah, that's good.
Our 996, you know, the drive, you know, drive line issues of noise that we've been getting,
you know, that, that's, we're still, you know, had to order a couple of parts.
You know, it's funny.
We, we, we had this one of the components, you know, I'll just, you know, say to you,
those made in Germany, it's not an OEM part was making contact and making some noise.
So anyhow, we're, we're, I think we're back to some OEM parts on this, you know,
the, the throw out bearing as well, you know, already, you know, started making noise.
And so I live and learn.
So anyhow, let me ask you this, I get really frustrated whenever I try to dive in, we talked
about this to any project at all.
How frustrated does a mechanic or a tuner builder, you know, all the things that you
guys are, how frustrating is this?
I can be, you know, and part of it is, you know, again, when you're dealing with a used car,
any way you slice it, there's, there are things that are going to take place.
And certainly when you buy replacement parts, it's one of those issues that you've got to
figure out who's making, you know, parts that actually fit correctly, just because it's made
in Germany doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to fit correctly.
And so anyhow, there, there's a whole host of things.
And so it could also be installation error as well, you know, and, and the, the other
adjustments and things that need to be done.
So yeah, no, it's, it's, it's been a fun kind of enlightening week.
They also actually had a couple, a couple of drives last weekend.
When I was a Porsche club on Saturday, yep.
And though I had planned to have the 996, I had to take my backup, you know,
which was the Miata.
And then on the same thing on Sunday, there was a bunch of enthusiasts who,
who went out for a drive.
We ended up at this, this cool little kind of meeting place, restaurant, watering hole
called garage 79.
They're celebrating their fifth anniversary.
So that was a bit faster of a drive.
And I think we'll get into more of the details of that in the later in the pod as well.
Yeah, no, this, that has spawned together with what I did in cars this week of most
interest to maybe me and those of you listening, we'll, we'll spawn a little bit of a discussion.
And what, what I did in cars, there's, there's always fiddling around in the garage, of course,
but last Saturday, I went to a, a van up in Park City and it's a high end car storage facility.
I think it's maybe the only one in Utah that has actually really taken hold and like been a success.
It's called warehouse, but they haven't had a couple of singers there that they were displaying.
And chart charting people to come in and see them.
I didn't know about this event till the night before.
So I didn't have a ticket and that, and that was okay.
But they had a really good car.
They were charging you to come in and see a singer.
I have no clue what the tickets cost.
All it said was on their Facebook link that the event was sold out.
And I didn't know how serious they were about this.
We went up anyways, I rode with my buddy in his 992.2 GT3 shown behind me on my video feed.
But they had a great cars and coffee outside, a good mix of exotics, some old cars per usual,
being a singer event especially or with that theme in mind, a lot of Porsches there.
But I think of most interest to me from that event was that it's good to have great friends.
And so my buddy was very gracious to let me drive the almost hour drive home from Park City
in his GT3.
So it was a really fun drive.
It's Park City back down to Salt Lake.
You go through kind of a fast canyon, freeway, a lot of freeway stuff.
And then at the tail end, there's 15, 20 minutes that's more kind of city suburb driving.
So it was really interesting.
And I think that's where I talked to you, Shanu, a little bit about your drive.
And so you drove a Miata with a bunch of Porsches and other cars.
And I drove the GT3 and it spawned a lot of thoughts, frankly.
So I've always assumed at some point I'm going to buy a GT3.
I think it's many car enthusiasts, bucket list, dream car.
I've had plans to get one, frankly.
In the coming couple of few years, so this was a real thought-provoking drive.
And I wrote an article for Full Throttle Talk, the newsletter, talking about not just fast cars,
but NVH, modern cars, older cars, the experience of driving each.
So we wanted to talk a little bit, I did with you, about the age-old debate.
And maybe with a new twist that some thoughts that I have of slow car fast versus fast car slow.
And that's what I kept thinking about.
And just to tee this up, the 992.2 GT3 is so good.
I mean, I've made my feelings pretty known at this point.
Everyone who drives those cars loves them.
But I found myself driving home from Park City frustrated, frankly.
And it's because every time that I kept looking down at the speedometer,
I'm like, oh, man, I got to watch it.
I got to be careful.
I just wanted to let the thoroughbred run.
And I'd be at 85 miles an hour on the freeway, which is a 70 mile an hour speed limit.
And just thinking, well, I hardly feel like I'm driving quickly or very hard.
I wasn't driving hard at all.
And I looked down and I was like, you're in a red sports car with wings on it.
Yeah, exactly.
And I'm sitting there wanting to go.
And yet I looked down and I'm already going 84.
And this is a GT3.
This isn't even like Turbo S.
And so anyways, I love these cars.
I think they're fantastic.
It's not a review of the GT3, but I found myself very frustrated in this car.
And maybe I just had the wrong frame of mind.
Maybe I was just wrong road.
But for the kind of typical driving when you're not on track
and you're going through a fun, canyon, kind of high speed sweepers,
I was a little bit frustrated.
And I got out of that thinking I probably would have had more fun in your Miata.
But you had mixed emotions about your Miata drive
on the into contrast, what I experienced.
I did.
I did.
And it's interesting, your article, by the way, was, I think, spot on.
NVH is a real, real thing that the OEMs have worked so hard to eliminate.
Noise, vibration, and harshness.
NVH is the acronym.
And so they worked so hard to make these cars so quiet.
But there's another type of insulation, which is electronics
that save your ass from being in the ditch.
That's another form of isolation, if you will, insulation that isolates.
And so I think all those things play a big role in how a car feels.
And that sense of speed and that exhilaration
that you ultimately are looking for, you're more detached.
And so, yeah, no, listen, that's been my contention for a very long time
that the NVH has gotten so good in cars
that they're all starting to feel like video games.
But coming back to my little, you know, slow car, you know, fast experience,
it was kind of funny because Saturday I was out with the poor club
and we went for a drive through one of my favorite roads
and we ended up at a lunch place.
And honestly, we were going pretty slow.
And so the car was fun because we were going slow.
Okay, it was a lot of fun.
And I was having a great time.
One of the guys that was there with us came in,
his wife jumped in the car with me because she's like,
hey, let's go a little bit quicker.
And so we actually got out in front of everybody
and then I could kind of just get after it.
And so that was a bit of fun.
But the second day, I went and joined a bunch of guys in San Diego
and I hit a bunch of roads that they knew that I'd never been on,
but they were wonderful roads, really good roads, really technical.
Lots of, lots of elevation change.
Okay.
And these guys were moving out.
It was, it was funny.
They broke into two groups, a fast group and a not so fast group.
Right.
So I jumped in the not so fast group because I got.
And is that based primarily on cars?
The fast versus the slow group was car dependent, right?
Like what kind of cars were in the fast group versus the slow?
I mean, I think it's really, yeah, no, but there was,
there were some very fast cars in our group.
Okay.
There's the Lotus Amira.
There's the E30M3.
There were a couple of zero sixes that we ended up, you know,
those guys started in the fast group, but we ended up catching them.
And they ended up, you know, running in our group.
But the truth of the matter is, you know, like my Miata is pretty bone stock.
I mean, the tires are just frankly 500 tread wear tires.
Okay.
So they got, they don't have much grip.
Yeah.
And I mean, I had the brakes locked up on a couple of occasions.
The guy with the E28M5, you'd love this guy.
He was on, he was on music.
Oh man, he was some smoke coming from your car.
I'm like, yeah, I locked up my brakes.
But here's the thing.
I brought a nice snow tires at 500 tread wear.
She knew, I think that sounds about as well be, they might as well be, you know,
and, and the car came with 16 inch rims too.
And there's a better selection of tires, you know, with that rim size.
But I want it, I like the look of the 15s.
And so that's the, as I was limited in my options there.
But yeah, regardless, you know, my, my final really conclusion there is I brought a knife
to a gunfight.
Okay.
And I got shot up, man.
It was like, holy crap, this car is so, I mean, I was giving it everything I had
within reason, right?
Like I don't like to go at 10, 10s on the street.
That's just my, my philosophy is keep it down eight, nine, 10s max.
Okay.
You got to leave a little bit in reserve.
I never crossed the double yellow.
You know, I try to, to be reasonably responsible.
Okay.
We're definitely moving out.
But, you know, when you're going up the hill and the car just has nothing, you know, you're
giving it, you're, you're flat in the, on the throttle and, and it just doesn't go, you know.
So there's only so much you can do, right?
And they just, the people in front of you just keep gapping you.
They just keep, you know, pulling away.
And it's like, you know, so anyways, it was, I still had a lot of fun.
Yeah.
But the truth of the matter is, you know, if I'm going to run with those guys again,
I'm not bringing them me out of it.
It's, it's not the right for, for, for that, you know, activity with that group of people,
right?
Because even in the slow group, the guys are, there's some good, very, very good drivers.
And so, you know, I had fun regardless.
I still had fun.
And so the slow fast, you know, slow car fast, you know, scenario, which is what I did.
It was just that I was with the group of guys that were running just, you know,
look, I was running faster than some of the guys.
There was, you know, certainly.
But, you know, when you get you, whether it's ego or just like, ah, you know,
you'd like to go a little bit quicker because you know, you could, you know,
if I had been in that 11 RS, you know, I would have been running with the fast group for sure.
And I don't think anyone would have got away from me.
But, you know, it's, it's, uh, yeah.
So that was my experience anyway.
So, so, so little wine fest for you.
Well, it's, it's funny because we spoke shortly after this and we were talking about
these drives that we each had.
Now you were on a proper drive.
I was frankly on more of a cruise.
So I have to caveat everything I say with that in mind.
It was just my buddy and I, um, but we were both a little frustrated afterwards.
So you're in the ultimate slow car, fast car, and I'm maybe not in the ultimate fast car,
fast.
I would say that's turbo s, you know, in, in with respect to kind of the,
the cliche saying or what, or what the spirit of that saying means.
I was, but I was close to that.
And I was a little jealous because I've had an Namiata and I can, I could only picture
that you were just hanging that thing out at like 6,500 RPM seven, you know, getting up near
red line and you had to pin it up there the whole time.
Whereas I'm like, if I go, if I drive this thing any harder and I was not driving hard,
I'm going to like be in trouble with the cops.
Like I've always got to watch.
And so I'm sitting there thinking, man, I wish I could have just pinned that thing
near 7,000 and really started lighting up the tires, as you said.
And you got out of it thinking this car was too slow.
Like I need a little bit more.
It was fun.
Yeah.
But like, so, you know, I think it's, it's been very fascinating.
And that was kind of my point with the article that I wrote is I'm not sure fast cars.
I like to blame fast cars being the problem.
But I also think that the problem with fast cars, they're all modern and you don't feel
you're isolated from the mechanical experience of the car and the sensation of the speed that
you have to go find it even like in a modern car.
But by the time you get closer to finding it, you look down and you think, well, either I'm
going to jail or I'm going to hurt somebody, you know, like another car or a cyclist up the
canyon or, you know, run off the road for that matter.
Right.
You know, and so I think maybe NVH is truly, and the GT3 from a modern car standpoint
is probably lower on the NVH scale than many cars.
But I still would argue they are pretty darn refined.
I've driven now a number of generations of GT3s and it's still very refined.
And, you know, not to you bring up the 111 RS Elise, that is perhaps the happy medium of,
you know, when you're going 84 miles an hour in that Elise, now keep in mind,
power to weight ratio is similar to a GT4.
But when you're going 84 in that car, I just drove it today and got up to 84 miles an hour.
You really feel like you're hustling.
But I went 84 in the GT3 and I was frustrated.
I wanted to just send the thing and get it up to 130 to get the same.
So that's the magic of that car.
So I think it is dependent on where are you, who are you driving with, what is the drive?
Because I can also attest, even though I was jealous of you just romping on that Miata,
there are a couple of roads here where I drove that Miata up the canyon.
And when you're climbing hills, going up a canyon road towards a pass,
we got into some, there's some roads with steep grade.
And I recall coming out of like a hairpin going up a hill.
And I had to go into first gear occasionally.
It was like this Miata.
Oh my gosh.
I was pretty impressed with the gearing.
You know, my heel and toes downshifts, it just felt perfect.
You know, like the way they've got the gearing set up on the car, really, really good.
I was pretty, you know, overall pretty happy with that part of it.
It was so much fun to drive.
So yeah, no, listen, man, I think there is some truth.
There's no perfect car for every, you know, application, right?
That's why we got to have multiple cars, right?
Or at least go through multiple cars, right?
That's just, you know, the car guys.
And my buddy with this GT3, we're texting all the time.
We have to constantly remind each other there is no perfect car, you know, and
he's had a lot of cool air cooled Porsches, you know, getting out of this GT3 made me think
in the world of Porsche, I'm an air cooled guy.
So, you know, that might be the happy medium for me, less NVH, but still enough go that you can,
you can keep up with a lot of stuff.
But we're going to get into, I'm going to come back to Porsche in a little bit
and possibly upset some people in one of our segments, but it's a fascinating discussion,
you know, and at any rate, I think we, we both just enjoy driving whatever we're in,
you know, if it's a decent car, which we both did.
So, automotive news, I wanted to just touch on a little bit,
an article that motor one put out, this was a little while ago, so it's probably old news for
some, but I've been wanting to dive in just a little bit more on this.
They came out with this article entitled, we asked every automaker how many customers
went for manual transmissions in 2025.
So, you have some great thoughts on this.
Obviously, it's no secret that I'm always trying to find
some, some way to hold on to hope that these manufacturers are not going to totally give up
on this, but, and I just want to highlight a couple of the statistics that they published.
When it came to Porsche, before the Cayman Boxster 718 was discontinued,
they had about a 46% manual take rate.
When it came to 9, which, you know, so half of those cars were being optioned with a manual,
which I think is pretty good.
911s, just in general, which is comprised of the Carrera T and the GT3.
These were only the cars that a manual is even available in.
83% of those cars that were available with a manual were ordered in manual,
which is like a staggeringly high percent.
I'll read a couple of these and let me know if anything sticks out to you,
brand-wise or car-wise.
And then, you know, you can.
Yeah.
Rattle through them.
There's, there's some interesting takes and I'll give you my, my perspective on it.
But, but, but read off a couple more.
Break down the 911, you know, numbers for us a little bit.
Yeah.
I just did the 911, 83% for Carrera T and GT3.
The regular GT3 with a wing about half, 53%.
The Touring's 83% were ordered with a, with a manual.
Cadillac, CT4V Blackwing, the little brother, 61% took a manual.
And the CT5, the big boy, about half, 48%.
Sure.
You know, and frankly, just to keep, to keep this moving,
most seem to be whether it's the M2, M3, M4, the Z4 offered in a manual,
the GR Supra, GR86.
50% seems to be kind of a standard number.
You know, M2 was 40%, M3 was 50.
BRZ, you go over to Subaru with 90% take rate with a manual.
These are all sports cars.
So it seems like there's some nuance, but there's some nuance here.
You know, let's, let's, let's go back to the 911.
I found this kind of fascinating.
If you, if you're getting a GT3, you know, only half the people are going for manual,
but if you go for a GT3 Touring, 83% are going for a manual.
So that kind of tells me the use case of the car, right?
Kind of coming back to the whole, you know, what we were talking about earlier,
and the use case oftentimes I think will really dictate what gearbox a person chooses.
I think healing and towing a car on the street is so much fun to do.
But when you're on the track, if you're really serious about track use,
you, you, you've pretty much reconciled with the fact that you got to get a PDK or a paddle shift car
because it's faster, right?
So if, if, if the standard GT3, a guy's buying that with the wings, he's probably, you know,
sounds to me that there's more guys going to the race track with, with standard GT3s than GT3 Tourings.
Okay. So that, that explains to me the difference, right?
That, you know, a guy that's getting a touring is literally doing it for, for road use.
And he loves to just shift because, you know, he's not sweating his lap times.
So, and I, and I kind of feel like that may explain partially the black wings as well,
which I mean, how many people are buying black wings as a track day car?
I think they're buying the street cars.
And then again, that's why I really feel those of us who love driving on the street,
the manual is still kind of the preferred option that we would like to have.
Right. And then when you look at your M, you know, your M numbers, the M three,
which is the four door, right?
That's the four door version and M four is the two door, right?
Yeah.
Well, with a four door, 50% are going for manual, which suggests to me that
if you're looking at an M M three or an M four, and you're going to the race track,
you're going to go for the lighter version, which I believe the M four is a bit lighter
than, than, than the M three, right?
And you're going to choose the, the, um, the paddle shift option, right?
And so it's kind of, to me, that's the way I interpret the numbers and why it seems to me
that the cars that are favored by street guys are being, um, you know, predominantly,
you know, ordered with, with manual gearboxes.
You track a lot, Shenu. How often do you see GT threes on track?
A lot. I mean, a fair amount, you know, they're, they're out there and they're fast as hell.
You know, it's just, you know, the, the, the, you see these guys and you're going through
fast sweepers and the confidence that they have with the arrow on the car, you know,
I mean, the car's fast period, you know, but yes, I see them on, on the track.
And, and I think that, uh, you know, that's the way, like, if I was buying a GT three,
and I knew I was going to be tracking the car a lot, I'd get the one with wings,
you know, for sure. Cause it's just, it's no arguing. Arrow is absolutely a key advantage
on the race track, you know, particularly if you run a course that's got some really
high speed sections, high speed sweepers, you know, in particular.
But all the guys go into the track, you know, the, I burn with the Porsche club and with NASA
and you're at a private club and you, I'm sure you've done lots of different, you know,
track days with different organizations. Like these aren't, most of these guys
are just recreational HP DE stuff or like drivers. So like the question I always ask
myself, so I've been on track with, it's, it's fascinating, you know, like most of the cars
that I've owned, you know, I've wanted, if they were remotely sporting, I wanted to go see what
they could do on the track. So I probably had 10 different cars on track. I've never driven an
automatic car on a race track. And frankly, if one day I do buy a GT three, given that I would
only buy it with the intent to, or with, with tracking in mind. So I would use it,
but I would have to track a GT three. So I'm with you. I would only take a winged GT three,
period. But, but I would still go for a manual, I think, like I love the sound of a PDK.
So I guess my question is if these guys aren't racing for like, as actual sport,
like why do they care? You drive a manual on track, even though, you know, you could be a lot
faster. I would option, I wanted to track this at least, which I did and I plan to do many times.
I wanted manual. So like, why do people care about going faster when they're not actually competing?
You know, I think people do compete with themselves. They do still look at their lap
time and want to keep improving on that, right? I mean, that, that's just fundamental for,
for a lot of people. So I think that's the reason is that if you want to go faster on the track,
and if you are gauging your lap times and you're measuring those and you're keeping tabs on that,
you want to keep improving. And, and so I think that's the, that, that would be the key reason.
And again, if, if the, if the use case for this car is, is to drive on track and to improve your
lap times, then you're going to take, you know, a paddle shift car every single time because it's
just faster period. But most, most of us are just going out there for fun. And then we try to get
better. Like, is the, is the ultimate like impetus behind going on track. Right. But
there's plenty of people that are using data acquisition, you know, tools to improve their
driving and, and to go quicker. And so, you know, remember that, you know, we come in all
those different flavors and, and, and, and interests. And so not everybody that goes to the race track
is doing it occasionally. Some guys are doing it because that is their activity that they want
to measure. Right. Like there's plenty of people that go running and then there's people that run
marathons and they're trying to beat their, their marathon time. Right. And so I think that's, that's,
that's really, you know, at the crux of it all. Well, you know, there are, there are plenty of
people that are out having fun. And then there are also people having fun, but they're there,
they want to go faster than they did before. And they're, they're working towards that.
Well, it's interesting because I have a good friend, her brother went to a, I think Skip
Barber racing school. Yeah, great. Yeah. So I talked to him after I'd never been to a driving
school, but I talked to him after he called me and he said, Hey Blair, we spent of the three days or
whatever he spent in the school, he said, we spent at least half the time working on our
heel toe downshifting. So, and he said, listen, it's hard. And I, I'm wondering, and a lot of
guys are telling me, I was starting to get the hang of it, but he said, a lot of guys are telling
me, just forget the manual if you're going to buy it. And he was thinking about what track car to buy.
And he said, so what's, what are your thoughts? Should I just bag the manual like these guys
are telling me and just, just get an auto and well, nowadays in spoiler alert, he bought a,
a Cayman GTS four liter, you know, with a manual and he did get the manual, but it a lot of rev
match for you. So it's still a little more cumbersome than driving just a PDK, but it's not nearly as
much when you actually have to heel and toe, you're breaking hard and you're blipping at the same time.
That is a real skill. And he was feeling the stress of this. And my advice to him is, listen,
you've already spent that much time doing it. If you pigeonhole yourself to a manual,
you are going to miss out on all the incredible cars that are available to drive like a Miata,
you know, like spec Miata racing. There's no auto. There's no auto blip button, you know,
to take care of that for you. So I told him, stick with it. You won't regret it.
And I think now he can practice it if he wants, but he did buy a car with auto rev match. So
I do recognize they're emphasizing that much of their course on just trying to learn the art of
heel toe downshifting, which is tricky. But man, once you get it on track,
it is so satisfying when you are just stomped on the brakes and you rock your foot or roll your
foot, whatever, and blip and to do that all, you know, and when you nail those things, it's,
it not only is it satisfying, but it also shapes the way I feel about cars. I want a car that's
set up properly. I want a car with great throttle response. I want a car with less NVH,
because then I can hear that stuff and feel that stuff. So, you know, that's so much goes into
this discussion. Did you just queue up our next, you know, automotive news, which is the Ferrari
Luce has released their pricing, you know, like on the subject of NVH and how are they going to
make this car feel and sound sporty, right? But more importantly, who can afford this thing?
So what, so they came out and they said it's a great segue because NVH matters a lot.
This Ferrari Luce, Ferrari Luce is now they've introduced the pricing. We still haven't seen
it. We've only seen the Johnny I've designed interior, you know, some of those spy shots of
like the Mr. iPhone, what he's planning to do with the interior. $647,000 is the base price.
And apparently that is the most expensive SUV ever. Yeah. So there's actually a great podcast
that talks about Ferrari and the history of Ferrari. It's worth listening to from these
guys, these two guys and their podcast is called Acquired. You know, I know that podcast.
Yeah, they do deep dives into a lot of companies. I mean, Costco, Hermes, Rolex,
Trader Joe's, it's fantastic. These guys do a really, really good job. And yeah, their Ferrari
pod is several hours, I don't know, three or four, maybe four or five hours long. It's long,
you know, all their pods are long. But if you like to get into the details, it's interesting.
They talk a bit about the Luce as well. And I think it was released before the pricing came out.
But, you know, they talk about Ferrari as a luxury product, right? And when you look at their financial
results of Ferrari, that it's clear, you know, the gross margins that Ferrari are pulling off
are three or four X what every other automotive company is getting. It's insane. You know, and so
you know, they're positioning the car, you know, at that price point as absolutely a luxury product.
And when you think about this, I feel like I said this on a previous pod where, you know,
the people that are living in city centers, particularly in Europe, you know, where they're
restricting ICE vehicles now, like London as an example. Well, you know, how many billionaires
are living in those city centers? And, you know, a Ferrari Luce is absolutely, you know, a vehicle
that's perfect for those guys. And you can get four full-size adults, I think, into this thing and
cruise around in the city center of London, right? And so I think they're going to sell
everyone that they can make. I think they're certainly going to restrict the overall volume.
You know, I think we had talked about like Porsche now 60% of their sales come from, you know,
in units come from SUVs. Apparently, it's the same case with Lamborghini, you know,
Lamborghini Urus is more than 60% of their sales. So I think this is the thing that it could become
almost, but at that price point, it won't be. So they know they're restricting the number of vehicles.
So why not restrict it by having a incredibly high price? So that's my quick take on it.
Well, I'll ask you one question. We can move on from this boring topic because EB Ferrari
for 650 grand is so stupid and it's probably going to cost 750, you know, by the time,
or at least by the time you spend the thing out. So yeah, like it's, my question for you is,
recently I saw one of the, I think it was cars and bids or something, it was a Ferrari 296.
Great car, some guy in Puerto Rico named Tim seems to be a huge fan of these things.
So great car by all accounts and everybody actually, I love the way it looks. You know,
I think that car looks wonderful. And frankly, all the reviewers give it excellent marks. I mean,
they all say it really is good, but I just saw one that I think it was, I'd have to look it up.
The MSRP was like 450K or 480 or whatever it was, but the car had like less than a thousand miles on
it. And it just traded at auction or didn't meet reserve. I can't remember, but for $100,000 less
than MSRP with less than a thousand miles. So my question to you is, if that's what's happening
with the Ferrari 296, by all accounts, a great car, desirable car, what is this $750,000 EV
Ferrari Luce going to be worth on the secondary market after six months or a year with a couple
thousand miles on it? Can you fathom the depreciation hit these things you're going to take?
I think it's going to be dramatic, right? I think all EVs lose pretty aggressively.
I think this latest Iran war is certainly helping boost a bit of EV sales right now
because the gas prices have gone crazy. It's like $6K and $7K. It's nuts. But yeah,
I'm sure the Luce will depreciate pretty dramatically. But again, does it really matter?
What I'm really curious is how, based on feedback I've gotten about people who have driven the
Pura Sangue, they made that car perform like a sports car. Yeah. But it's from a handling
perspective is really what I'm speaking of. And so I think this Luce, it's going to be quite
interesting what they're going to be able to do in making that car feel lighter and more nimble
than the weight will suggest. So it'll be interesting. Yeah, the price point is going to help them
because they don't want to sell too many of them. And so why not just set the price at a price point
that their preferred clients can afford and don't blink twice about. So it's guys like us who look
at that price and say, that's just outrageous. How can we even consider that? Well, we're not
billionaires. And I think the billionaires of the world, this is not a real consideration for them
to have something so exclusive, something so special. So I think the whole Johnny Ive interior,
which whatever, it's okay. I don't fall in love with gadgets. I'm not some iPhone lover and I'm
a collection of electronics like that. But I know there are people out there. And I think those
people probably like EVs, you know, and they're more into that than they are all cylinders. So
then, you know, I think it was a smart strategy on Ferrari's part. Yeah, anyhow, I think there's
let's move on because that's too much EV and too much SUV talk, right? Well, I take the Pura
Songway for 250 grand less with a V12. So speaking of NVH, tell us about Morgan real quick.
Yeah. So they just announced, you know, some news this past week, they've introduced their
SuperSport 400, which is supposedly the most powerful Morgan to date. You know, it's about
112,000 British pounds is the price point on that thing. So it's going to be quite an expensive car.
You know, Morgan is this old English brand that builds these cars with wooden chassis, right?
And very, very retro, very old school looking cars. And so they've modernized it, you know,
given it a bit more of a retro flavor to the design or moving it forward, I should say,
but it still looks like, you know, the old style, if you will. So they're really after
a younger audience with this car. Interestingly enough, it comes with,
I think it's coming with a BMW engine, which most of them have for quite a while now.
And it's got an eight speed gearbox with a three liter inline six cylinder, the BMW
B58 turbocharged engine. And so, you know, they're saying top speed of 180 miles an hour,
you know, decent emissions, blah, blah, blah, blah. So anyways, I found that to be kind of
interesting, you know, they're building this kind of lighter, more pure sports car.
They put this turbo motor in it, which I think is going to obviously make a lot of power.
But I'm wondering what the hell it's going to sound like. But, you know, turbocharged
six cylinders, eight cylinders in my mind always sound a bit better than the turbo fours,
which generally I'm not a big fan of. I love the power and the emissions advantages of a turbo,
you know, four cylinder, but the sound leaves me a bit wanting. So we'll see what this Morgan
sounds like. Yeah. Well, B58 is supposed to be of, well, it is a great motor driven at many times.
It's yes, you can make big power with it, but it's lovely inline six that is just fantastic,
pulls hard. I'm sure it's going to be an awesome car with very little to no NVA or lots of NVH
and, you know, no cancellation thereof. So, but, you know, Morgan's super cool and I'm interested
in that. For our last segment, before we take a listener question, and this one's going to be fun,
speaking of turbochargers, maybe a common theme, you know, with the cars, we wanted to list a
couple of cars or point out a couple cars that we think are overrated. And this is one of those
topics that, you know, we hope not to piss too many people off with. I might, but it's my opinion.
So, Shnu, give me your first one before I share my two cars that I've driven that I've found to be
overrated in my mind. Well, since we just got out of a segment that was talking a bit about BMW
engines, though, for me, my most overrated cars are going to be modern M cars, frankly,
post the E90s. You know, to me, E90 was about the pinnacle that V8, that high-revving V8,
I felt like, was the coolest M car in a while. And these current ones, to me, are just overly
complicated, way too heavy. And, you know, frankly, I'm not terribly interested in them.
So that's the first overrated car I, you know. Post E90. So E90 still works for you.
Yeah, you know, because you could get a four-door, you could get a four-door, you could get a manual.
It was, you know, to me, a car that, like, when I think of a sports sedan, like, BMWs are not
sports car manufacturers, in my opinion, you know, they make great sports sedans, right? And so,
like, that four-door, you know, with a V8 and you can get a manual in it, that's, for me, an ideal
sedan, because it gives me the practicality that I'm looking for from, you know, a sedan and a car
like that, gives me the manual gearbox so I can heal until my downshifts. And then you've got this
high-roaring V8. I mean, how cool is that, right? That's pretty cool. They are cool, the E90s, but
I tend to agree with you. It's funny because I was just stopped by my Porsche mechanic, don't own
one at the moment, but they've done some work on my BMW for me, E46. And I told them, I said,
yeah, the next thing I got to figure out is, now that I bought the Elise, but I bought the Bravo,
I have too many cars. So I'm up to four cars. I like to only have three, if I can help it.
So I've started to have these thoughts new about, and then I have a daily, which is a 2021 BMW 3
series that you just called overrated, which is heartbreaking. It's not heartbreaking at all.
So I've just had this thought though, can I consolidate my E46 M3 and my 2021 3 series
into one daily commuter, whatever. So I was telling these guys that they were asking,
what's happening in my garage? And one of the texts there, he's like, oh, so like a G80 M3?
I'm like, no, not a G80 M3. I'm thinking, and one of the cars I keep thinking about,
the problem is I drive a ton. But if I'm going to go from two cars down to one,
I might be able to justify doing something a little older, which is what I would like to do,
that might cause me a little more headache. But these E90 M3s with the V8 is like, if it's a toy,
I prefer to go older. But I do love the way they drive, and that's a special motor. So yeah,
I tend to agree though, like G80, F80, I've driven those cars, they don't do a whole ton for me either.
So the first car that I've got on my overrated list was a car that a buddy of mine drove,
which is an R35 Nissan GTR. And again, when I say overrated, I think these things are cool.
I like that other people are into these cars. When I see them, they're kind of aging well
in a weird way. But he let me drive this thing. In fact, I think it was going downtown to
jazz game or something. And my buddy's like, no, you need to drive it. And he said, in fact,
I think it's making kind of a weird noise. So please drive it. Like he said, I would love
your feedback. So I got my son in the car with me and we drove downtown and we got back and
anyways, the car was fine. But then like a few weeks later, he said, listen, I'm going to Hawaii
for a week. I actually am like out of garage space at the moment. Do you care if I store
the R35 in your garage? And I'm like, well, that yeah, that's fine. He said, please drive it all
you want. Like totally trust you. Like I want you to drive this thing. So I put it in my garage
and shoot in the one in the week that I had this at my full disposal. I got it out once only because
I didn't want to say, Hey, I never even got your car out. And I went to pick my daughter up from
dancing it. And come on Godzilla, you drove it once. I drove Godzilla one time and I had it
for a full week. And it was like, that there was just something this was probably 2019 or
something when I when this occurred. So I got two decent drives in it. The one downtown and back,
I mean, it was an hour drive total. So I really got to use the car that they just it reminded
me of a Tesla Model S that I had recently driven before that where it's just big, heavy, you just
want to keep, I mean, the Model S I don't but in this car, it's one of those that you just feel
like if you're not heavy in the throttle and just letting it rip, it's kind of like, well, what's
what's the point? So, you know, the the mystique of these cars, the value they're holding value well,
I do think they're cool. But to me, I just don't get it. I don't not my thing. What do you think
of the R35? I mean, listen, I I'm not the biggest fan. I mean, I admire the car quite a bit. And I
think its use case is fast drives over a lot of miles, you know, where you're cruising along big
road trips. That's where I feel like that car will excel. You know, one of the reasons why like,
you know, I was keen to get I'm keen to get a C8, you know, as a road trip car, because it's got
it's got a nice long wheelbase. It's got the comfort that you want in in that type of use. So
yeah, I can get it. You know, I understand, you know, where you're coming from, in a styling,
you know, to me, the Skyline GT cars have always the styling ever been elegant. They've never
been beautiful. They've always been slightly butch and they've had this kind of slight aggression.
So I like them, you know, but I don't I've never fallen in love with any of them. Maybe maybe R33,
maybe the one that I kind of like the best styling wise. But yeah, I know I can see where you,
you know, we're less less excited about the car. Well, and it's not because I'm like anti
Japanese JDM, whatever. I've got a freaking K-Band in my garage for hell's sake. And I love Miata's
and I love, you know, exactly. Yeah, you had a you had one of those type R's, right? Yeah, I've had
two. I've had a type R. I like these cars. But but but it's, you know, this car hadn't exhaust on
it too, but it just kind of sounded like a vacuum cleaner. Turbocharged cars
disappoint me. And most, most, well, modern turbos, most modern turbos I drive leave me
underwhelmed. So and before I share my real, well, I will, I'll share my controversial pick now.
So maybe they'll forget the audience will forget about what I said, you know, when you
because you'll share your next one next. But I started thinking about which car
I've driven that just disappointed me. And then I kept stacking lots of different variants of
these cars up. So it's a little like your first choice, but I'm going to go with every turbocharged
911 I've ever driven. And to start, I've got a 996 turbo up there. I wanted to buy a 996
turbo on multiple occasions. I've driven nice examples of the car. And it is one of those
that every time I get out of it, I'm just like, I don't see it. I don't understand it. It doesn't
do much for me. Let's go a little bit older 930 turbos. I think you're maybe the most gorgeous
cars ever made. I drove like a 10,000 mile Minerva blue 930 like a year ago. And I had or two years
ago I had my 85 Carrera. I owned it at the same time. I get out of those cars and I think
incredible to look at. I don't see what the fuss is all about. And then most recently,
changing my backdrop picture, another one that does this for me as a car I drove last year was
it the 991.2 911 generation. I don't understand the appeal. And these are good cars if you want to
go touring. And I think maybe that's the point. But like throttle response is always a little bit
wonky. And sound doesn't exist. And especially in this 991.2, the throttle response was just not,
it felt like there was computers processing a little bit when I bliped the throttle and when
the tack actually jumped. And when it was, it just, I don't understand the appeal. And then you
see what these 991.2s, the 930s, 996 turbos are still relatively, you know, affordable, I think.
That's my favorite one. Yeah, 964 turbo, I love that. I love the styling of that car.
So the style on all these cars, I think is great. 930, 996 turbo, I have no problem with 996
turbo styling. So tell me why I'm wrong with the 996 turbo driving experience that I think is so
overrated that car in particular. Well, look, I don't think you're wrong. I'm gonna agree with you
on some of this. Okay. Look, I think a 930 and a 964 turbo, these are my favorite turbos.
Then, you know, 993 turbo, I didn't like it because I felt like it just looked like the wing
had gotten melted. You know, to me, the turbo was the pinnacle 911. But then what it became is the
more refined GT, you know, certainly the Learjet for the road. And with that in mind,
and that clientele, you know, I think Porsche would continue to make the car more and more refined.
And I think that's the issue for me for most of the 911s of the last 20 some 25 years,
you know, really 30 years, I should say, you know, they just have gotten a bit too refined for my
taste. So I feel, I see where you're coming from. You know, look at the 911, you know,
any way you slice it, it was always, you know, supposed to be this practical daily use sports
car. And so I think they lean into that the new turbos because they have the GT3 and the GT class
of car to pick up on the sporty nature of what they've done with the 911. So yeah, listen, man,
I'm with you. I'm not a big fan of the turbos, the current turbos. The latest,
latest turbos are incredible. I think that I think they actually look better to me as well.
But yeah, 999 started with the 993 turbos, 996 turbo, not a big fan, you know, less interested
in those. Well, I haven't driven a 993 or a 964 turbo. So I can't speak to that.
Um, yeah, I did drive this mint low mile 930 turbo example almost back to back within a couple
days of each other with a 77 pre intercooled three liter 930 turbo hot rod. And I will say,
I did really like that car. It had a big turbo on it. And it was straight piped. So it was loud.
It was raucous. It was beautiful. It was like, so I do, I have driven some turbo 911s that were
interesting to me. I've driven a sport classic kind of light. I liked that more than I thought I
would. I thought I would strongly dislike it given my experience with turbocharged 911s.
And that was actually kind of an interesting car. But and the last thing I'll say about this is,
believe it or not, I've driven multiple Cayman 718 Cayman S's with a four cylinder motor in it,
one in manual, one in PDK. And I have not gotten out of those cars disappointed. So it's like,
yeah, the motor's not that interesting compared to the flat six before it, the 981, but like,
and they cost 50 grand. They're like 50, 60 K buys you a really capable four cylinder turbo
Cayman. And they're small and they're precise. And it's like, yeah, they're lacking. But then I get
in these, I get 991.2 or a 996 turbo. And it's like, man, they're a lot of money. They're bigger.
They just feel so GT to me. And it's like, okay, I could own one of these cars if I just wanted to
put around town in it, but like emotion and energy and excitement and sports car.
I can't do it with turbocharged 911s. I've yet to find one that makes me
excited other than that 930 total hot rod wild animal that I drove. That was rad.
Yeah. Well, you know, I think that it's nice to have different opinions on these cars. And,
and you know, here we are, you know, I'm probably next now and when, and not to try to keep bagging
on 9 11s, but good God, you know, well, I'm going to do this. It's like my second choice is
Steve, since when he's 80 vintage, I love in Turga's. I'm a big fan. I think you're driving
experience. You had a little delay when you said it. Say it again. What car you chose?
Yes. Okay. Sorry. The 60s, 70s and 80s vintage 9 11 Targas. I've driven 70s. I forgot what year it
was. But I thought, Oh my God, what's all the fuss about this thing? The cowl shake? It just,
it wasn't, it wasn't as exciting to me. And then visually, that's if I'm honest, what my real gripe
is the visuals. So I don't like the way it breaks up the roof, roof and the line that the roof makes
into into the back of the car. And so to me, the better alternative are some of the more current
ones where I feel like they kind of started to fix that. And in the 90s, and in the last 25 years,
Targas, so you get the full, you know, nice big, you know, roof opening, but you still get to maintain
the overall kind of sweep of the roof line and the overall styling. But then also, I think the
performance is better as well, because the car is just structurally more rigid. So yeah, to me,
the overrated ones are those early Targas. And there's been a lot of online people just raving
about Targas and they want Targas. And I'm like, Oh my God, really? Well, why? Here's the beauty of
cars, Shenu, but I'm going to totally disagree with you on the Targa thing. And the reason why,
so I own this 85 coupe and I want another air cooled at some point. I miss that car. I've made
that clear. And the kind of driving I did in that car was I would go around town, it felt special to
go take the wife to dinner in, people made people happy, made me happy. And then we would do a lot
of canyon drives on the weekends early in the mornings. What a fantastic if the car is well
sorted, what a fantastic car to drive in the canyons. But I got a buddy who had one, but he
had a, I think his was an 85 as well, 915 gearbox, and he had a Targa. And there were times when I'm
like, I got so jealous, it's kind of like this Elise, that he got to be up in the mountains
without the roof on. And, and I'm like, because we're not driving on track, we were driving very
spiritedly. And those cars are fun to push. And now I get your point on rigidity, cowl shake. I,
when I drive them, I haven't noticed like major challenges with that. But I haven't pushed one
hard in fairness. So I love the type of driving that I think is done in air cooled cars, really
suits the Targa thing. But it's also helpful that I happen to not dislike the way they look,
like you do. And I prefer a coupe. And I do think that's like the most beautiful
form of a 911. But I think Targas are super iconic. And I might just buy one, especially
now that I found out you hate them. So
Well, good. So we can agree to disagree on the 911 Targa. I'm not a fan.
That is the beautiful part of this. And the last thing I'll say about all these,
I've never gotten out of a 911 and thought, Oh, that sucks. You know, like 996 Turbo has
been the most disappointing for me. And I, the 991.2 Carrera S I drove for four s was so refined
that I just thought it needed like personality. But and turbo just seems to like squash all
personalities in so many cars. But compare, I'm comparing them to my favorite cars. I'm not
comparing them to standard ordinary stuff. Like, yeah, you get out, they're all fun to drive.
They're all interesting to drive. But for me, you know, they, they, they've fallen short in my
mind many times. And I've wanted to love especially the 996 Turbo and I just can't.
Yeah, I mean, I think we just have to reconcile with the fact that each 911 model is being,
you know, developed and for a very specific use case. And I think the more refined versions of
the car are exactly that they're they're targeting client who isn't going to be aggressively driving
the car and is looking for something that's frankly a good alternative to a Lexus, frankly.
Yeah, sporty alternative to a Lexus. It's so true. But they're great cars. Just
I like some more than others. That's for sure. So lastly, before we finish this up,
and this, it's funny, this question that came in from Dave kind of fits into what we were talking
about earlier, which his question was, is the manual transmission actually better?
Or is it just more romantic?
Well, I mean, I think there's, there's simply better. It's all like, how do you define better
for what use case? Totally. Okay. It's not better on the racetrack. Okay. That juries out. Okay. I
mean, that, that, that is something that, you know, there's no arguing that that case at all.
Formula one cars do not have manual gearboxes in them.
But it's not faster on a racetrack. But like, no, I'm saying it's no manual transmissions. You're
right. Or if you're defining better as fast, then no, they're manuals are way worse than an auto
like on a racetrack. But I guess that's the question. How are we defining better? Because
I just described something I love to do, which is come into a corner hot,
romp on the brake and blip the throttle while I'm changing downshifting, you know, to make the
corner ready for corner exit. And those are the old school race drivers, you know, the old videos
you see, they were doing that. So speed, absolutely manuals are worse. But I would argue, if you,
unless you're trying to race, there is something so satisfying about nailing that. And I know you
feel the same way. I do. But it is, it is more of a romantic, you know, thought, you know, the
rose tinted glasses are firmly affixed, right? We, we enjoy that experience. We enjoy the effort,
you know, we, we love it when we nail it. And, you know, on the street is where most of us are
doing our driving. I mean, I'd love to say I spend every day at the track. I don't, you know, I spend
most of my time driving on the streets. I'm in the canyons way more than I am on the racetrack.
Yeah. So I think that's, that's why you and I both, you know, romanticize about the, the advantages
of manual gearboxes. And so I think that's, you know, today's, you know, question really, that's
really the difference is you got to decide yourself as an individual. If you love the art of heel and
toe downshifting, then a manual gearbox is really your option for your street car. There's just,
there's no way around it. Yeah. So yeah, that's the way I'd answer it.
Well, I think you're pretty spot on and maybe romantic is better. And that's, you know, and
that, that's kind of the way I would, unless you were racing or you're stuck in traffic. You're a
Southern California guy and sucks. Yeah. I mean, that's why you look, yeah, I'll tell you a quick,
funny story. I was, um, it was, I don't know, maybe 15 years ago, Boris said has a huge BMW
dealership in, in town. And I was sitting in his office and we're yucking it up, talking about stuff,
blah, blah, blah. And he goes, Hey, look out the window. And I look out his window. He goes,
look at all those BMWs. And he had a sea of white and black, you know, BMWs. I'm like,
wow, yeah, look at all those cars. He's like, there's not a single one of them with a manual
gearbox. And, you know, I was like, what are you kidding me? He's like, yeah, not a single one. And
so, you know, I think that the congestion that some of us have to experience, you know, where we
live certainly helps dictate our car choice. And, you know, if I had to commute in Southern
California every day, which I don't, you know, I'm three miles from my office, I would, I'd be
hard pressed to be driving a manual gearbox, you know, and I would kind of reluctantly move my way
towards a PDK paddle shift, whatever, you know, kind of option for my, my fun, fun car, you know,
if I could only have one fun car, right? You know, the truth is, when you're stuck in traffic,
manual gearboxes are not that fun. Well, on that note, Dave, thanks for the question.
Absolutely, Dave. We do appreciate all the response and, you know, people listening to this.
Our goal is to build, I'll keep saying it, a really great community of like-minded drivers
and enthusiasts. But we'd also love to hear why you think we are dead wrong. I mean,
Shenu said, he hates a Jeep Auditarga. Come on, light, light this guy's comments, would you?
I didn't say hate. I said overrated. Okay. Those are two different things, man. Two different
sentiments and feelings. Okay. But overrated. Okay. Overrated. That's what you said. Just like
you said, four GT, four GT is lethargic. Okay. You know. Well, listen, throw all your, your
backlash at both of us. We love it. This is what makes cars so fun is you can banter about it
and you get, especially if you're willing to buy older cars, man, there's, there's so much
available to all of us. And that's what makes this thing so fun. So, until next time, Shenu,
really appreciate it, buddy. Thanks Blair. Okay. We'll see you. Have fun. Talk to you later.
About this episode
The conversation moves from a GT3 road trip and a Miata canyon run into a bigger argument about what makes a car entertaining on public roads versus track. The hosts keep circling back to refinement, NVH, and how modern performance cars can feel too isolated at legal speeds. Manual-transmission take rates become a clue to buyer intent, while the discussion widens into overrated icons like turbo 911s, early Targas, and modern M cars.
Blair Smith and Shinoo Mapleton tackle one of the best enthusiast debates: is it more fun to drive a slow car fast or a fast car slow?
After Blair spends time in a 992.2 GT3 and Shinoo pushes a Miata through technical canyon roads, they compare modern speed, refinement, NVH, driver involvement, and why some cars feel thrilling while others feel too isolated.
They also cover manual transmission take rates, Ferrari’s expensive EV plans, Morgan’s new Super Sport 400, and a few “overrated” cars that might upset Porsche, BMW, and GT-R fans.
