What car punches above its weight | The Car Podcast #58

Hello and welcome to the car podcast with Chris Harrison and his little friends. We

had a week off last week. We put geographical issues. We didn't all fall out. We still love

each other and we love you dearly. 58 episodes. Unbelievable work chaps. Can't thank you

enough. Let's go straight into it. This is a great subject. Driving slowly joy. The joy

of driving slowly. I'm going to start with Manish. I tell you why because he never starts

because it's never F1 at the beginning. So Manish, you are facing the first ball. Do

not get a golden duck. I will cry not to. It's interesting in central London you actually

don't have a choice. So whether it's a joy or not, you drive slowly. But

you know what? Recently I took my son for a little bit of a trip in Lola. We had a couple of

days in Hampshire and it meant driving through the new forest at dusk. Lovely. Exactly. I think

I was quite surprised to see that the speed limit was 40 or 50 in the new forest. It was a relatively

high speed limit. We actually did the whole thing at 15 miles an hour. Maybe speeding up to 20 on

occasion. Windows down. And I mean it wasn't as if the DO were upon us. It wasn't as if you know

there were little barn owls on every single branch. But I have to say it was one of the most

magical drives ever. And again we did that wonderful thing where we turned the music off.

It was just the sound of the car. The low revving. The sound of nature. It was the sun

dropping. It wasn't sunset. But the sun was certainly dropping. It was that pre-golden light.

And I thought to myself I'm not sure life gets a lot better than this. You know you're in a car

that's probably capable of doing 170 miles an hour more than you're doing. But it feels like

just the right speed. And there are moments like that. For me weirdly they all involve a little

bit of you know it's not daytime driving slowly. It's driving slowly at night where you can really

see the lights. Driving slowly in the dawn where you can really really see that. I remember once

we left you know that 560 SEC story. It was a drive back from Las Vegas to Los Angeles early

in the morning. Just coming out of I mean Las Vegas in the 80s. It was pretty flashy. Pretty

unpleasant. But I'd say leaving early in the morning again. You know just as the sun's dipping

up. You want to do that slowly. You don't want to shoot through the strip. You know with any kind

of boom. I think for me first thing in the day. Last thing at night. Really nice car. Windows

definitely down. No music. Just enjoy it. So there's so many angles to this subject. There's

driving slowly in a slow car. There's driving slowly in a fast car. There's driving slowly

because you want to drive slowly. There's driving slowly because you don't want to drive slowly but

you have to drive slowly. There's so many aspects to it. Where are you going to go with it Chris

Cooper? I think it's a joyous underrated pleasure of driving. And I think you're right actually

there's multiple dimensions of it. We'll come back and talk about some of them another time. I was

there's a particular journey that I have in mind that really brings to life the joy of driving slowly.

Earlier on last year Lin and I spent a week long weekend in the Cairngorm Mountains. Grampians

used to be called North East Scotland around Braymar and lots of areas around it. And we got

a car a little high car. It was a six year old BMW 218. I was really impressed. I actually

said to the guy in the high car I said that's really interesting. You've still got a 2017 or

something high car. He said it hasn't done the miles and actually it's still a really good car.

It was really nice. A manual transmission. Those seats are going right to the floor. Love those

seats. And Lin and I were together which we don't actually get to spend much time together in the

car. There isn't helpful ever trying to get somewhere before we left. So I don't know why I

did it but we didn't have a conversation beforehand and she didn't say to me Chris whatever you do

don't drive fast. Let's just enjoy the weekend away. It just happened. It just happened. And we

just drove slowly the whole way there everywhere we were going. And there were a number of things

that it it sort of brought to life apart from a sense of well-being that I could

get into the mode of saying there's somebody behind me who wants to make progress.

I'll pull in it and pass. And as I get past I'll give a little jointed little wave at the side window

and just the goodwill that it imparted and I received was that felt lovely.

The joy of seeing the countryside rather than waiting for the destination.

I thought was really really it sounds obvious but when you like Mr. H and I I think probably at times

all of us a journey can be I wanted to be as short as possible. I'm not going to stop. We've got to

get there because I want to get there. I can enjoy what I've come here for and I managed to get my head

into that space of not thinking that way. So the passage and its beautiful countryside clearly

Scotland is lovely and because I was driving slowly I saw that SL 600 in the garage in the

Boeing that somebody there bought and then wrote to us. That made the whole thing worth driving

slowly to hear from that lovely chap who bought that car. He was thinking of buying a Tesla but

he bought an SL 600 because he was listening to us which I think is just hilariously lovely and

wonderful. But the most important thing there's a bit about how you drive the car. It's not the

same as driving a car fast more slowly. You just do it differently. You think about the quality of

the gear change. You think about actually can I drive not using the brakes and thinking about

the throttle more sensitively. Actually there's a there's a car slowing down up there. I can just

ease off and just the whole thing was lovely and smooth and flowing and you kind of take

a perverse pride in conducting the automobile at the slowest pace but it still feels like

you're moving and it's nice and smooth. But the nicest thing that I found the joy of driving

slowly was that Lynn and I talked to each other in a way we hadn't really done in the car before

because there was time. There was time and space. Lynn was relaxed because I wasn't driving like an

idiot trying to get somewhere before I left. I actually pointed out before I did. Yes. I wasn't

you know getting irritated because I couldn't get past somebody. It's like hey it's fine we're driving

slowly. So for the two of us it was we both said we need to go and find somewhere else to go and do

that and life being too busy and you kind of think crikey we're like 15 months on we haven't done it yet

but thinking about talking about it today when we finish this I'm going to go and see Lynn this

evening and say where we're going to go and drive slowly because talking with one's wife my lovely Lynn

and the way we're able to talk was just about everything about where we're going the boys

our life what we're going to do the next five ten years and just stopping and talking about who

we hadn't seen for a while because we have the time and space there's a lovely environment

she was relaxed and happy I was and I hadn't really thought about that before. Trackey took me

a lot of years in my driving life to get to the point we realized when you're with somebody else

in a car driving solely suddenly the car becomes the place you can have that lovely experience

with your loved one or a mate or whatever it is and I just think cars are brilliant when you're

driving slowly yeah I think I think I'd echo most of those sentiments if not all of them

Neil Clifford what about driving slowly oh I've got I've got so many angles on this it's like a

dodecahedron

the the um that's 12 pence actually

yeah it is yeah that's 100 sided golf ball

the you have to you have to um I'll look it up yeah there was a golf ball as a dodecahedron

it was a anyway the um you have to in a way we haven't got a choice have we because

you still have to drive slowly now because there's fucking cameras everywhere trying to control our

lives and get lots of money and stop us driving and you know it's all for good reasons and safety

20 miles an hour at the Finchley Road yeah right um so in a way if we like cars

often we have to drive really slowly so it's sort of a bit pointless not enjoying that because

that's the nature of driving now um so that's one angle second angle is I've you know I've just

I've just sort of been around the world actually for two and a half weeks which is sort of really

annoying because I've missed cars a lot and then you get back in the car this morning

desperate I was desperate to go for a drive any bloody way and my son had to get to the station

and you know Emma's always taking him and because I'm not here and she's like I'm gonna take Vincent

that oh no I'll take him I'll take him yeah don't do very darling you sit down and sit with a dog

and have your tea I was dead I'd get in any fucking car and drive anywhere and there's something

lovely about getting in a four by four I know we can be sort of critical of four by fours but

you know what it's there's a moment when they're really cool when there's a storm even though it's

one of our sort of pretend fake storms that we've given a name so when you know not supposed to

leave the house but the wind's going like 22 miles per hour but anyway the leaves are everywhere

it's raining it's windy you're like oh it's really autumn now first day like that yeah and you get in

this you know Range Rover and there's something lovely about the I could you know I could at the

end of the world I'd survive it because I'm in this four by four you've got that sort of feeling of

causative safety and I was just poodling along I left in only takes us 15 minutes to the station

I'm like come on let's get half an hour drive really slowly just watch all the leaves going up in

it was just smashing so that was this morning's first drive after sort of pretty much two and

a half weeks and then the other angle I'd just like to touch on briefly is even when I'm driving

fast or what I think is fast I am often driving slowly compared to everybody else

which is really it's really sort of annoying because the one lovely little I know we're not

doing what are we doing cars thing but anyway I'm going to talk about it for one minute I was in

Los Angeles the lovely friend my lovely friends at Singer invited me to this Willow Springs launch

which was very cool yeah must have been meet me in a coffee shop at 7 a.m. it's really great

little coffee shop and all of the Singer owners of Los Angeles show up in this car park and we got

three posh coffee and Daniel the love my adorable adorable guy at Singer and sort of

organized it all for me and I've got this little BMW high car so there's like mega cars everywhere

and me and I'm like oh shit this is going to be embarrassing and the drive from Los Angeles to

Willow Springs about two hours hour and a half 70 80 miles right up into the canyons wonderful

that that place is just you know talk about the grapes of wrath I mean it is just fantastic the

grapes of wrath cars it's just such a mega place Los Angeles because you're in the center of the

city you've got the beach and then 10 minutes you're up zooming up into these canyons very

steep amazing roads and then you get to the top and it's like Wichita line man it's like the

fucking desert it's amazing and there's 10 minutes before there's people living in 20 million pound

houses and then you blink and there's people living in caravans just you know it's it's mad

but anyway so I'm desperately trying to keep up with all these bloody singers and I'm doing my best

and but it's I'm not very good at keeping up and there were some moments where my palms got slightly

sweaty and there were some moments when I could have been slightly on the wrong side of the road

by accident heaven's to Betsy so you've got no choice but to drive slowly anyway it's really

nicer drive slowly and even when I drive fast I'm going quite slowly so it's all about driving slowly

really I love that they can go off those yeah yeah exactly I so it's a really interesting

subject for me because I have to admit that I'm not really envious or jealous of anything or

anyone it's not because I've got lots or I've done lots I just don't really feel like that about

anything yeah exactly one of the few times I'm envious envious is the word here not jealous

is when I see someone contentedly driving down the motorway at 68 miles an hour and they're not

gripping the wheel and raging at those that might be going faster they just look really happy and

they're not bothered by what else is doing and there's a they just look content they're not

being judgmental doesn't mean I want to be driving really slowly but I just think I wish I could be

that chilled I wish I could be that relaxed and calm I'm not a very calm person as you lot know

and I think I admire that I admire the person that can drive at 49 miles an hour in a 50 mile

an hour zone with with accuracy and be quite happy yeah I'm not it's not always easy for me I'm not

saying I perpetually break the law I'm not but you know I find it difficult so I really admire

people that can do it but I really add that caveat is they're not judging other road users

they're not the hand waivers and the flashes when people go past them they're just like on you go

to use that phrase my mother used to use which was he's going well when they used to go past you

I just love that phrase he's going well um so I think as an art slow driving so handling machinery

at low speed Chris Chris Cooper is quite right allows you to keep busy in different ways you're

not actually you're not pinning your senses on clipping points and apexes and like in breaking

points you're actually thinking I'm going to really work on that clutch I'm going to make sure that

gearshift I'm going to make sure that when I come to a halt that last three inches I just released

the brake pedal so my passengers are unaware of the moment we stopped the little things like that

the sort of chamfering the edges off driving and taking pride there's some amazing clips on youtube

there's a guy who's driving one of those sort of 18 gear trucks where the gear lever goes in all

directions and his gearshift technique is so joyous I keep watching the video I can't put

a link on it I'm too stupid Finney's away I'm producing this one by the way so this will be

a shambles in terms of pictures I apologize in advance but I just apologize if I find it

by two car garage now he um he just produces these lovely little gearshifts and he's

he's probably doing 30 miles an hour by the time he's gotten to 16th but I just love watching it

it's a man who takes that's great he's taking pride in driving slowly right yeah so I think

there's a lot of joy to be said I love driving slowly in slow cars if you want to remind yourself

why you love driving good drive 2cv drive a 425 cc 2cv 4 or 5 up on some country roads where

there's some hills and you'll be wetting yourself and laughter up the hills and you'll be hooting

with laughter down the hills and you'll realize that speed speed is probably the least important

ingredient to driving enjoyment on the road and we have to accept that um and I think that mindset

helps us massively yes uh in terms of modern driving Neil I totally agree if you can't love

slow driving you probably can't love road driving anymore I think that's right I had one thing I

told you this um if you think about um one's mental health I can tell you I know I'm in a much better

place when I'm not hurried and driving too quick on the road the slower you can drive

the better you're noggin I really believe that's a hundred percent absolute correlation 100 percent

um I think that's a deep deep thought that we should come back to that yeah I just think if you

if you if you're not in a hurry um if you if you plan your journey the other day I got up

half an hour earlier than I needed to and I left half an hour earlier than I needed to I never do

that and I I drove slower I stopped and got myself two coffees on the way and I arrived early

and I know I was just better than if I'd be in my usual frantic self so I think slow driving

can I just say that that that contented person you saw at 68 miles an hour that was me in Lola

down the m3 and it was a really happy happy drive we didn't have to be there at any time we didn't

anything planned nothing booked and that kind of leaving when you want arriving when you arrive

and driving as you drive I mean I I don't know if too many people saw a black Ferrari in the

slow lane of the m3 but that was me and it was really really calm and very enjoyable you know

it had two days of being calm that is the way to do it it's a good place to the new forest as well

to drive slowly because you know you've got bloody wild pigs for you know it's like it's like driving

across fucking Marwell you expect Henry the eighth to come out in a in his robes and throw a spear

at you don't you basically whatever whatever even in China so I'll also pop the bottle of

silliness and say that seriousness and say that maybe people just managed thought you're in limpo

mode because of 456 there is always I think there's another aspect to slow driving I'd like to share

someone I learned to test cars from once said to me if you've got a really really fast car like

the fastest supercars or the best sports cars the really top-hand ones go and drive them really

slowly around town go and drive them in a car park maneuver them and then you'll really tell how

much love and care has gone into that car because making a fast car go fast is one thing making a

really fast car drive but at low speed is an entirely different skill that's really clever

stuff I think that we there's a lot to come back to in this subject and I think one of the things

you said earlier really resonates which is how do you drive slowly well and that that rolling off

the brakes as you're coming to a traffic light or a stop sign or whatever it is so that actually

it's really hard to tell where the vehicle stopped you don't have that sort of like little lurch

just when everything's waited forward and rocks back again and that and just perfecting and being

fussy about it the way that we are about I've understood my car and what's required to just

roll off the brakes and it's hard doesn't keep on going it does stop but you don't have that little

lurch at the end and it's just a massively important part of that serenity of of enjoying

the car slowly I never think about any of that shit no but that's that's that's sort of why

this bunch of weirdos works because sometimes you know you don't say anything I get really really

nerdy about it in fact I've been known to go back and do a roundabout again if I thought

I've not done that justice I need to go back I get asked a lot about you lot

I'm one of the best ones the most common questions I'm asked is this Neil Clifford really think

tyres are unimportant and I go he does he's seriously they're just round I can't tell

a fucking difference they love it they fucking that actually honestly they just love it right

gonna move on we've just done 21 minutes on that so judge by that we'll finish in about four hours

time cars that punch above their weight value versus enjoyment but I think there's two things there

I'd rather go for cars that punch above their weight that's a really good phrase

and I it's a I think maybe that's the holy grail for all of us is that when you're one of the

connoisseur when you're a car nerd you like to think that you make more informed choices than

the everyday man or woman on the street then you know a bit more so you've got that smugness of

being a bit cleverer you bought the GLX because you knew it had better dampers on it or whatever

it might be you know because you read the auto car and Peugeot make their own dampers or you know

all that stuff so I love this subject because they're they're they're punching above your

weight is a great thing I'm gonna take to Neil Clifford on this I think you can't you can't ignore

money in this though can you I mean I agree because I've got it on a sort of pleasure enjoyment

versus money graph thing is in my my head you can look at this three different ways but

fuck the answer is the Boxster so I just I'm gonna start at the end

and then which which box here you go I I think it's the first one the first one s

um I just anyway I just I just can't get past the Boxster really but I think

there's so many in there I mean the Subaru Impressor is such a is such a giant killer

even though I struggle with I do struggle with the love of Japanese cars over the long term

yeah definitely a one-night stand I just I just you can't really you can't you can't marry a Japanese

car because it's just it's it's it's like it's a blow-up person

yeah there's there are multiple levels in which we've responded to that but I think legally you

are accurate you cannot marry a Japanese car I'm picturing the co-pilot in airplane at the moment

just clean all right well I you know I have a Subaru Impressor um the bloody whatever it's

called Nitchfield T25 I literally read that Evo magazine until it fucking failed to pieces on

the box about that car and I always wanted one and I could never find one and then I've you know

I've got one and it's for whatever it was 20 grand it's got those little adjust the knobs on the

back for the suspension I don't know what they do I move them around nothing changes that's fine

and and the you know the dash is a bit crap but it's 400 horsepower in a little saloon that

weighs like a paper aeroplane it's fucking amazing and no one knows what it is I think

I think part of this is the not knowing what it is thing it's if you know you know thing

it's a bit like the Yaris another car you can't really love over the long term you get one I've

read too you think oh my god I'm never going to sell this it's a modern day in Sagrari

it's just an incredible thing and then after six months you're like oh it's a bit it's a bit

Japanese um and then you don't keep it I think Conti GT you know I know I'm talking my own book

here but I think 15 grand it's just a fantastic fantastic car now I mean yeah not really punching

above its weight it's a very heavy car and it's blood expensive but now for 15 grand it's amazing

but I think box the first series whatever that's 986 986 I think it's a really good answer and one

that I'd struggle to beat because ultimately this comes down to driving doesn't it and I think if you

I revert back to the the Pepsi challenge phrase that if you if you could put people blindfolded

in a car and let them judge the quality of the materials the way the controls feel and all the

other stuff and the way it sounds Boxster was you know it was as good as stuff that was 10 times

the price wasn't it sometimes better um so uh manage your thoughts there's one other thing about

a Boxster which is its label I mean talk about sitting in a car that's great value but you're

in a Porsche that you know if you can buy something like that it's Neil's yeah Neil's Bentley thought

it's just you see it's that other that intangible thing that has nothing to do with driving you're

in a Porsche for that money that is yeah so it slightly zings on my in in terms of kind of value

for bucks I would put a Toyota MR2 right up there I think they are fantastic

Cooper with there oh no I really do I think listen what what is what is the good one

so 2003 2004 what sort of series was that was it was the last one with the with the

engine when yeah exactly it was a sort of the slight I've never I've never got excited

about an MR2 so I know you wouldn't I know you wouldn't marry this I know you wouldn't marry this

Neil but you know honestly they drive so well this is a dinky little car and the drive and it's

about what a third of them yeah through it you were talking about but I thought this was really

your bank for buck graph question which is why I've picked this car this thing's about a third of

the value but what can you you can buy one for like four and a half thousand pounds an hour even less

from that period yeah it would be it would be a neglected but I mean

okay I think it's a good call I think on your graph of I think on your graph of performance

versus look it doesn't have the Porsche label of course and stand that it's not a Boxster I get

that it's not there's one car but there was something about that car better and better and

better and better and and and then then it's sort of Chris is looking at me you know slightly

I can't believe you picked back up because I'm producing this show yes I I've got there's a

latency issue with you but you're a little bit delayed so I just don't want us to tread on each

other's toes so it's a shout out to the learning podcasters give manage a bit of space to breathe

before and after he talks or we'll be treading on his little toes okay and and and there is one bloody

broadband company which is responsible for this I won't bloody next week if it's isn't working

there will be a shout out we don't want to name it but it does begin with a V

I think the reason I'm looking critical also is I love one of one of the one of these

giant killer questions is once you've worked out the giant killer status you can ask the question

what other in the case of the MR2 name me another mid-engine Japanese sports car

exactly there aren't many and when they do them they're quite special tend to have had

people like Sanna develop them so although I think he probably spent a morning looking at the

dashboard but that would be the extent of his input to that car but I'd like to be corrected

there obviously I think I looked at this slightly differently because I because I had contact with

one of these recently they're not really cars I like that much but I think it's the ultimate

what would the phrase what the phrase we used it was

punching above your weight that sounds ridiculous but I think it's the Range Rover

I'll explain why because I just think if you look at that ridiculous super uber SUV market

the Range Rover is the best it's the best thing it's the one everyone wants it's half

was the third of the price of a Cullinan and parked outside of whatever hotel you want to go to

it's just as good yeah in any ways the rangey punch is so far above its way because it's the

only one that anyone wants I don't get me wrong I'd have a Bentayga I really would over that

but but the Range Rover is amazing it's sort of like a budget product in an absolutely

uber it's in the most expensive category and yet it does the business is that a comment

yes I think I do think that's really that is really spot on isn't it because you can get

you know a sensible color clear glass with that 300 diesel engine which is all the engine you

need in the Range Rover it's plenty fast enough I always judge you things by if you got other

people in the car how often do you end up with your foot flat to the floor and actually a 300d

Range Rover passes that test you never think oh I wish there was much more and I think you're right

it is yes the third the price of a Cullinan and twice the loveliness it's handsome it's really

really handsome and I just my side of that which is I've always one of the one of the joys of

sort of reporting on the car industry is that you've got access to the people that make the cars

you got access to the development process and you understood what went into making a car was

always humbling it was amazing and you were reminded that actually the cars that had the

most money spent on them were the ordinary cars because they were going to sell more so there

was more money to be made and therefore the money that Ford would throw out of focus or a Fiesta

was staggering and so what you were getting was actually a brilliant product that in many ways

had been far better developed than any you know fancy supercar or sports car that you thought was

going to be better and it was that perverse sense that maybe the swatch watch had better tech or more

reliable tech or was a better product than actually a Patek Philippe it was quite weird

and that that understanding meant that every time I got into a particularly those Ford

focuses at the beginning you'd just go this is brilliant this is so good if we think of a giant

killer Pepsi challenge I'd rather drive this down a B road than the last three sports cars I drove

and I suppose in that category high watermark I say it's so often E39 530i manual stuff stuff

like that we would often have when you were doing big magazine tests you'd see those big

best handling car or whatever auto cars thing or EVO car over the year they'd often be Klingon cars

or extra cars that were there for photographers or the car maker would have dropped one off just to

help you out and sometimes they'd be hero cars see I remember being in a big test and the M5 was

new and it was all brilliant but there was a 530i wagon and most of us spent a load of time skinning

that around because it was actually more fun on the road yeah that probably would have won the test

if it had been in it and I just it's weird how often the ordinary car reminds you that it's better

than the fancy one um what do you think Chris Cooper there are some cars that punch above their

weight that sort of didn't when they were new they are 100% do now I like this angle and if one

thinks about performance cars sporty stuff that you'd like to take on track the world has become

Formula GT3 RS if you haven't got a GT3 RS don't bother turning up it seems to me the world has

become for track days we had this lovely event with Sir Hoy up in Croft the other day and most

people turned up they either turned up in a GT3 RS or they wish they turned up in a GT3 RS

but last week I had the chance to drive something because the lovely Will Pembroke

friend of our podcast and an unbelievable enthusiast he let me drive we had a couple

goes together with him up and down the A30 the Crownborn Trace beautiful part of the world

and he had an E46 CSL with a manual gearbox courtesy of Darra 40,000 miles on it that just

was a thing that's slightly short of final drive that's a bit of a weapon with the slightly short

of final drive I mean that was just it was it exceeded the very high expectations I had for it

but there's the other car he let me drive where he is mad about and I have to say

I'm completely sold it's the 2016 M4 GTS yeah which lots of people were not very kind about when

it came out because it was compared to GT3 RS at the time it would have been 991 and it struggled

now that car on AutoTrader and I looked in car and classic as well

65 grand wow what a machine wow I mean on a on a I mean he's taken to the ring we'll

took it to the ring a couple times this year he came to that event we had at Thruxton

which is a grown-up place to take any road car and we had a little play with it

entirely legally Ossifer up and down the A30 Crownborn Trace beautiful day lovely dry day

really really fun what a machine and I said to him I cannot think of any car that punches

above its weight and you're right Neil it is absolutely driven by how much does it cost

cost yeah yeah it's like a third a quarter almost of going and getting a 992 GTS no way

is it only a quarter of the enjoyment and the fun it's I actually really like the way it works

it's got a really planted feel the steering is just magnificent 500 horsepower we need to make

we need to make this graph we do need to make quite a lot of stuff on it yeah yeah by the way

as a brand BMW has an uncanny knack of having stuff that when it's launched is overpriced

not as fast or as good as the equivalent Porsche and then when you fast forward five years you're

going I mean it's just a splitter on the front I mean you think I said to him you've obviously

put something I said no came from the factory like that in the boot you lift up the boot floor

it's got little vessels due to you fill up the water for the water injection with the engine

how cool is that how much did this cost how much did it cost new Chris what was it new

they would have been over a hundred thousand a hundred and thirty hundred and forty something

like that wasn't that much 120 but it's not over a hundred don't forget of course that's another

one the inflation in new car prices it's so true we forget but um I think that's a really good

chat but I BMW made these things and the great thing is they weren't that attractive as new cars

they didn't sell many so they've got a scarcity value as well they do you know I saw Will at the

Nurburgring in that car and he he there's a lovely feeling of rolling into a car park knowing

you're probably the only one no that's I think we love that chat list that's put that on the list

that's sort of why I made the quip about for the GT3 RS yeah yeah I agree yeah well we did we did

get it we we couldn't work out if it was witty or kind of clever who knows with me yeah it could be

neither right looking at picture only one in a car park list I drove the 991 sorry 992.2 turbo s

yesterday with the two hybrid turbo chargers I'm not allowed to talk about how it drives at all

but I'm allowed to say I've driven it otherwise I get fine I think it's 80 000 euros okay I can tell

you though that they had three pull quotes on the wall behind they were from people whose opinions

I'm sure we value Patrick Dempsey yes because he has done them all yeah Orlando Bloom and Paul Casey

the golfer okay it's what among the most random quotations I've ever had at a new car launch is

that Paul Casey I love my golf thinks the turbo is great I sit there thinking I'm glad I'm pleased

for Paul I don't quite know why he's telling us that but it's great um or but it's fabulous um here

we go create a car to help Aston Martin sales oh fuck who wrote this me Neil what do you you've

just used the vernacular to go why well you can answer it you bugger I think this is good because

well it's always just good this isn't it thinking about how we can help our lovely automotive

world because they're struggling a bit aren't they yeah and we all bloody love Aston Martin

desperately you know we want it wanted to be successful it's a fabulous bloody brand but

it's it's it's a bit of an issue isn't it um so let me turn my bloody phone off well I'm going a

different angle to that the thing the thing this is my take on it right I think the strategy has

been and maybe it all we it may I mean strategies even if they're failing they might work because

it just takes a lot longer time yeah maybe we're just stuck in a moment where it's not quite got

to where it needs to be but the strategy of needing a wanting to be the British Ferrari

which is my instinct is maybe that is what the strategy and by god have they done a good

job on the cars right they're super handsome the quality is amazing the dash is much better

we all know they all look a little bit the same but people aren't buying them in the volume that

they need to buy so maybe if we're challenged with the sort of come along and just brainstorm

about what else we could do as opposed to putting the prices up by 50 against five years ago and

trying to be the British Ferrari and make them better better better cars but a lot more expensive

cars it's really difficult to emulate really great brands maybe one day we're doing an emergency

about where Ferrari are because I think they're in obviously in a very good place

you know I sit in the shoe and handbag world we all sit around saying how do we be Chanel

really really really really really really difficult to be Chanel how do you if you're in

the watch world everyone wants to emulate Rolex or Patek because you know incredible brands

incredible success huge consumer desirability massive margins it's really hard I sit around

thinking how can I be Jeremy Clarkson but I just gave up on it and just thought I was doing my own

thing wow I lost that Chris no I think he's he sits around thinking how to buy and be Chris Harris

exactly um how do I be Apple you know there's so I think I think if I was if I was given a

challenge I'd be gonna go back lower yourself a bit go don't you know you're starting at 175,000

pounds of the I think for the you know for advantage right yeah go back to the thoughts

around DB7 they're making more as than Martin's 10 years ago weren't they than they are now

we need 120,000 pound Aston Martin I think in my view and I adore most cars and I adore Aston

Martin I've never really had the motivation to walk into a showroom and say hello sir I'd

like to buy an Aston Martin because I always thought but I wasn't quite old enough yet to me

when you meet people it's the dream of retirement now I know that people at Aston Martin would say

oh bollocks Clifford you're talking low to old shit here you're thinking 10 years ago

for Aston Martin it was the dream of the man that had worked his lady arse off he's got his

pension he's paid off his mortgage the kids have been through university the wife's happy

I'm gonna treat myself is he really gonna go and do that for 275,000 quid for a vanquish

you need we need 120,000 pound Aston Martin and I want that balloon slightly no I don't think

I'd love that but Porsche the cheapest 911 you can buy in the UK as of now is 103,000 pounds with

no extras and an M3 CS Touring is 130,000 pounds so I just don't know how you can make a sports car

I'm gonna tell you what it is and sell it and sell it for a profit well I think well if Porsche

do it so this is I'm bringing back the DB5 just so just a bit more specific a bit more specific

I'm not gonna do it like that really nasty horrible ugly thing that's named after a bloke's tractor

whatever that thing

you know the one I'm gonna do what Alpine have done because I think they did such a magnificent

job of the 110 from the old 110 yeah like it's it's it's got all the references of vintage but it's

not it's not retro it's not a parody it's a modern thing I'm going to go and knock on the door of

I don't know Lexus and borrow their six cylinder hybrid or me we're going to talk to Mercedes and

say look you know that's C63 I know it's I know you're bringing back the V8 you got a lot of spare

ones out the back the four cylinder ones can have some of those engines and I'm going to design this

modern beautiful DB5 and it's going to have 50 colors and it's going to have beautiful

non-metallic colors from the 60s and it's going to have all this leather and I'm going to find a

way even if it's 130 grand because Aston Martin as a brand is very desirable there's just not

enough people with the money to spend the prices that they've got because they're not the customers

that they think they've got they're different ones because is it also about to say is a

boring consumer chat that because Aston Martin's residuals are a bit tougher to support this

they're more expensive to finance so no one really buys a car for £120,000 or a few people do but most

people stick it on the tick and the crazy thing is an Aston Martin at 120 grand is going to be more

expensive per month probably than a GT3 RS is it 180 grand yeah it could be I get that I don't know

the stats but I think there was a lot of men dreaming of an Aston Martin for 10 or 20 years

and their goal when they achieved all that shit that I've just spoken about wanted to walk into

that show and say I am now ready here is my checkbook and I'm going to enjoy this car until I

pop up the daisies and that's not where they've aimed it is it fair to say actually in hindsight

I think we knew at the time that the VA vantage under bets was a brilliantly conceived and executed

product because it met the criteria of a modern Aston Martin perfectly it wasn't as good to drive

as 9-11 but it looked sensational everyone could pretend they were James Bond as a piece of packaging

and just a piece of styling I just think it's stunning it's the old one the new one is not

it's got the best car from whatever it was 2005 it's prettier than the new we can't design cars

that are uglier than the ones that came before you it's a crime so I found bets very difficult

but my god he's got that on his CV he reinvented reimagined Aston Martin as a brand

and he nailed it he nailed it managed what do you think that means lovely listening to a proper CEO

talking about a proper business problem but he's a CEO who works in the design world

so talk about bull's-eye Neil I came across this quote and I wondered whether we'd under

appreciated this auto car said about buying a used 1977 v8 Aston Martin Vantage the big the big dog

they described it as hairy-chested patriotic 70s supercar that exudes sophistication but

isn't for the faint hearted and I've never read a better description of an Aston Martin in a way

than that I mean that would not describe a Maserati or a Ferrari or a Porsche and

if you add James Bond to that I was thinking about James Bond I mean who is

James Bond who is the kind of archetypal James Bond I mean Neil's right he's not some company

director he's just sold up at 65 you know even if he's a fantastic 65 year old you know with

with a gym instructor a hair transplant all the rest of it and we're talking about

yeah you really you you're right I thought the sort of subtext of the question was

how do you make Aston Martin younger because in making it younger maybe you'll find the formula

and the thing is the guys there as you say they're very clever people Luca's own Felicia

was CEO for a good chunk of time and I've heard Luca talk about it as a brand just sort of saying

what an amazing brand and you've just said exactly the same thing Neil you've got the label

you've kind of got the silhouette you have the pedigree you have the history so why aren't you

hitting and I think it might just be that that in the kind of 80s which is you know when I think

of two things I really don't think about modern Aston Martins I realize I think about James Bond

so obviously I think about Goldfinger Goldfinger I think it was made in 1966 something like that

gold member exactly 65 and then and then I think about exactly that car that kind of 70s

you know real muscle car and then I don't I don't really think beyond that and I

I think this is a really tricky one the four models that you can buy today are the Vantage the

Vanquish the DB12 and the DBX that they're their models so they've they've had a go at the SUV

they've had a go at the V12 and they've got two two kind of Bond silhouette cars in the middle of

that and that's so I suppose they've got Valkyrie and they've got Valhalla coming so they've got

that yeah you can't buy a Valkyrie now though they stopped making those a year ago Valhalla

you're right is coming but I I think this is a really really really tricky one because you've

had the best brains they've sort of scattered this seed I mean isn't would your strategy Neil be

you've got this one DB5 that's a hundred and twenty one hundred and thirty thousand pounds

and that's what props up the other four because I think that's the tricky bit with that

it makes some money they're losing two or three hundred million quid a year I mean it's not

absolutely but I do wonder whether the answer is hard so you build they've built a four by four

which is obviously not selling anywhere near as well as they wanted to I do wonder whether you

know the root of the formula is just like go down to two models go down to two models you know make

this beautiful you don't think that would work because I think it's a really really hard question

there's design and after Martin that's just kind of oh yeah I hate thinking that we can fix a business

I know exactly I could run a lot of Aston Martin but I I love the idea of what you know defining

a product what because the when Aston Martin flew under bets it was the VA advantage that did it

that just totally it turned the dial they've been doing quite well with DB9 but it was there

you saw 10 a day it was great when you saw them everywhere so Chris Cooper DB7 gave him a big push

so the strategy question is quite interesting one isn't it is it it's the strategy been wrong

was the execution and wrong in other words if you'd looked at it on paper to say you've got

a little baby-ish car a more grown-up car and a very grown-up car and then some specials

and you're going to sell 7,000 cars roughly a year you'd say that should work but it hasn't

and is that execution or is it strategy I mean good question I mean it's the longest subject

and I've had two seconds think about this today and I remember years ago quite a long time ago

now nearly 30 years when I was deciding actually do I really want to be a management consultant

rest of my life turns out that was I had to because I couldn't do anything else

I had a brief go at trying to create a different kind of thing with some very very bright creative

people who were very clever design people look at that wonderful much has he got something to

share with us sorry for those of you who can't see normally he leaves me alone during podcast

time but he wanted to have a chat so carry on more intelligent beast has appeared on the portal

that has Chris Harrison you carry on I'll put down a minute he's got quite a tickety throat

doesn't he how cute is that he likes that look at that sorry carry on doing your thing Cooper

so um there was a design agency that was a that was buying a lot of clever stuff in the 90s some

of it worked some didn't work and they were behind the British Airways rebrand of the late 90s

a phone called Newell and Sorrell and Johnson Sorrell now Doyenne of the British design industry

he's a bad he uh he reached out to me and said why don't we do something together

how is it a consulting firm at the time and the first project that we had together

was to reimagine the British Airways terminal at JFK unusually British Airways only they

didn't rent it or lease it they actually owned the real estate so they can't do what they wanted

to it and at the time the strategy of British Airways was to connect and serve the communities

of the world which was part of the cool Britannia trying to get away from just being British I thought

it was a really interesting strategic voicing of who they thought they were as a firm what they could

do so I was thinking on the lines of well if you're if you really think you're a global community

connecting and serving communities of the world how would that manifest itself in a terminal

building what what kinds of things would it license you and allow you to do that customers

understand and buy into and he looked to me with utter horror and said no we're not going to do that

I said well why I said well because that's what everybody else would do and I thought well that's

really interesting I thought is it because they do it but not very well or because actually genuinely

the creative process is different and I so I kind of we could look at the Aston Martin question and

get Chris you know down the road that you feel uncomfortable with which is we're trying to solve

something I actually don't think it's a bad that was a fucking question yeah well the question says

create a car to help Aston Martin sales yeah a car just one car I kind of think it's the Aston

Martin Boxster yes that's clever that because that answers both Neil and Chris's question

and in many ways it's where managed was probably heading without quite realising it

I'll add this in my adult period of being a car enthusiast and a journalist there are two

standout products that were shamelessly reimagined versions of cars that were iconic

and they were the L322 Range Rover yes and the Frank Stevenson Mini Jeff Upex did the

Range Rover Frank Stevenson did the Mini they are the two best at doing that the Frank Stevenson

Mini is especially brilliant when you see those driving around now you think good god it looked

good then it's amazing now so first of all you phone up them you get one of them on board and

for me then you pick I wouldn't go mid-engine I'd just pick back catalog I'd say we've done all

these new things we've got a new looking car but I reckon if you did a V8 Vantage I'll throw a third

name in Rob Dickinson from Singer if you have one of those three yeah you said V8 Vantage do me

well now and we want to start at 450 grand so you know we're not going to go super duper clever

we're going to have maybe 350 horsepower this is not about going super fast we're not chasing 200

miles an hour but it's got to look absolutely amazing I just think and the other the other car

that I you know god if I had the buttons at the moment a V600 Vantage from the late 90s

what a good looking car that is they're on their way down they're 250 now yeah

but god have you reimagined I just think it's time they've given us I mean the Valhalla I just

I don't really care I don't get that I'm afraid and I well they've done this they've been brave

and they've they've given us their interpretation of a modern front engine GT car just happens

that they all sort of look the same they're very beautiful cars god they've got some road presence

as well but now I think they can shamelessly go back and plunder the back catalog and give us

something from there I really do yeah 100% yeah the Valhalla feels like it's a competition

with mclown on the road to nowhere the Valhalla feels to me a bit like the Audi A2 the lovely

Audi A2 story yeah BMW had a show car which I think was called the BMW X2 so BMW this is

this is an urban myth but I think it might be I think I've heard it might be true

BMW went to Geneva with a fully finished little city car an unexpected sort of micro car

and they did it to juke Audi into spending a load of money doing the Audi A2 and they never made

the car they did they they turned up to make Audi respond because all Audi was just mirroring

everything BMW did so there was a talk that I think Wrightsler said let's do that put it there

bet you Audi going to spend a load of money making something to ride all that and they did

and they lost a load of money on it wow confirm whether that's true or not I think it I think

that might be true um let's go to our agenda um here we go supercar quiz weekly supercar quiz

from me so me in this case is N Clifford Esquire sporting the Luca the Montesemolo sorry Luca

Montesemolo hoodie why did I say D sorry um where we going with this Neil tell us what you're doing

you can you can tell that I've spent about four days on airplanes in the last seven days because

I've got lots of lists good the light list right so all we've got is we've got 10 cars

and you've just got to say supercar or not supercar okay um portion 959 supercar supercar

it's interesting because really it's a 911 isn't it and we said no no no yes she helped it

okay Nissan R35 Nismo not supercar okay Maserati Bora supercar not a supercar I think it could be

supercar because of its era and its time and the fact you'd put it on your wall at that time

okay here we go E type Jaguar not supercar sports car sports car it predates for me the supercar

because I've done using the Gullwing's the first supercar it's maybe I think that I think the

mirror is but um so super it's a sports car I don't I don't think you can say that they change

over time this car was released in 1961 it was a fucking supercar you'd have it on the wall

you can't you you you're diluting it just because they made a hundred thousand of them and they're not

I hate to be that person but the great thing about the podcast Neil is I can no I know yeah

right um Ford Sierra RS Ford Sierra RS 500 not supercar not supercar sports car

yeah true I to be clear I want it more than just about any supercar yeah it's a very super car

yes yes Aston Martin DB for vantage sports car

sports car but very close to very close I'm actually going to close that one by saying I think it's very

close yeah yeah which really you just want it to be a supercar you do okay Mercedes Benz SLS

uh sports car I think that's good because I think it's right on the edge but I think it nudges into

supercar I think it does I think as the years go past it will be I um it's a tricky one that because

I I think there's another area of area of supercar that we discussed the car was I drove one I had a

daily one for Mercedes Benz couldn't sell them so they gave me a long term and that's

amazing isn't it they said you might as well have one we've got a car park full of them um and it's

so usable and so practical it's it's almost without the only piece of theatre is the doors

without the doors you'd be thinking oh this is a bit this is just a normal car it's so good

it's a really really really good car that oh do you know what I it's a proper bucket list car for

me that one yeah I I have I remember my time so there you go there's my wonderful old Boswell

he used to sit in the passenger seat with me yeah had it all out I had a brown leather interior

you can't see that if you're not watching it it was stunning um it it's a you're right you know what

it's just if it's not a supercar now it bloody well deserves to be seen yeah I think the coupe

all right yeah okay BMW M1 supercar supercar yeah okay I agree not because of the engine but because

of what it was no yeah and who and who built my last kidney yeah that's true Porsche GT1

supercar all right now I know where this is coming Max Chilton you little swine

you want me to do this when I said no 911 can be a supercar he just sent me a picture of a GT1

then he absolutely undid me it's a supercar it must be a supercar but it's not a 911

exactly it's not a 911 it's not a 911 it's a big a big debate on our little what's that group

why do you know it's a 911 that's fair play to Max he did me there but I don't I'm not sure it's a

911 uh last but not least Peugeot 205 T16 not a supercar no sports car well there's two ways to

answer this one it's not a supercar two we're trying to push the values up for Neil so we'll say it

might be we all love that would you ever on the wall in 1985 of course you would it's a really

really good one because it ticks all the boxes of a supercar if you were to do the you know tick

boxes empirical bird spotters guide or a train spotters guide it ticks them all but we all know

just by dint of its shape it can't be a supercar supercar's got to be low and you'd put um Henry

Toivanans rally car version of that on the wall 1985 RAC rally but that that that car was at Willow

Springs yeah that that exact car was at Willow Springs yeah so if in that regard then you'd say

that an Audi Quattro Sport that's a super car not a super car I think it's a sports car it's a super

car super car but it's not to do this game again it's brilliant yeah well that that that is the 10

we've finished that very good I'm doing that I like that we'll do that again because it'll just

create massive arguments we should each pick a list and do it again yeah okay um let's do a

little bit of formula one because it it's getting really really interesting I don't think you'll ignore

it uh Neil please tell me that you don't give a shit about it didn't watch it I didn't watch it

and I don't give a shit apart from what Lando to win the championship there you go good love it

let's move on let's go to Chris Cooper first on about a month ago about a month ago I did say

could this be the greatest comeback since the Americans won the America's Cup against New

Zealanders in 2013 and their skipper said wouldn't it be amazing if he won it from here

he's coming for them max he's coming for them I mean right now you'd say he's got momentum and

yeah

there's nothing to say um the sprint race I think put a spin on this weekend that

perhaps wouldn't have been the case and it's funny I was a little skeptical about something you said

a couple of weeks ago Mr Harris which was that I think Oscar's head's going a little bit

his maneuver I mean it would have been absolutely fine on lap 39 or something but you know on the

first lap of the race trying to cut inside when you when you can't go around the outside of your

teammate and expecting the track to be clear there and it isn't about cognition is it it's

just it's about gut instinct and experience and there was a little moment of massive experience

there he could have tucked in a little bit more gently and survived that and I think the the biggest

story is the teams now are all so close they're all so close McLaren if they were light years ahead

then they could still say well it's okay you know if max wins a few will certainly come second and

third the bottom line is that's just not guaranteed anymore if max wins one Mercedes I mean George

Russell won the last race both the Ferraris look reasonably handy in this race you could find yourself

in fifth and sixth having said all of that I think the sprint race really set the weekend up weirdly

for McLaren because because the cars are so close together they need those 20 odd laps

they really need that they certainly don't need to be rebuilding a car right before qualifying so

I think let's see what happens and I think Mexico will tell you and I'll stick my neck out here I

mean I think Mexico will really tell you who's going to become world champion because I think if

it's business is normal if they don't take each other off and if McLaren it's a good McLaren circuit

this it's got you know just about all everything that McLaren's good at it needs good tyres all

the way through a race fast corners slow corners you know blah blah blah I think from McLaren can

do well here one of their two boys will win the momentum between the two of them does seem to be

with Lando but having said that you know it's a bit like saying is there a great white shark out there

and we're going to need a bigger boat there is something of that about McLaren in the boat

exactly and um and Max and just just he Max is I mean he is magnificent isn't he that guy is just

magnificent they found something on the car I read that it was a front wing then I read

Andrea Stella's comment saying it's the underside they've got that car running lower now because

they've really sussed out the airflow all over to you I remember when Morpheus has got Keanu Reeves

and there's a bit where he's starting to fight back about agent Smith and Morpheus says he's

starting to believe Max is starting to believe he is the one you the one I just one more thing

to say sorry um and it it has become recently a bit formula ones become formula first corner

hasn't it really and I bet McLaren are really really not because Mexico the first corner

is a hemisphere away yeah what could possibly go wrong oh nothing at all can we just not have

Sao Paulo where you know if you get a decent start you're going to get to the first corner first

Mexico as well as in Austin it's a bit

well the thing about Austin is it's called this really really wide entry but there's really only

one and a half lines through it so you can be five or six or even tenor breasts because it's

such a wide entry and you just kind of be carnage you're also completely unsighted when you single

see when you go up that hill it looks like you're taking off in a seven three seven yeah I've driven

it and you think bloody hell how do they do this they pop over the crest I mean I hope you know I

thought that was harsh on on uh Hulkenberg but he he retracted it he retracted it yes he did

I think it's I think we've got a belter of a season we should be really really grateful this it's

only what Neil Clifford you're missing out if you're not watching these because they're really

good races there's a lot of aggro people are making what all the stuff you want if you're not if

you've not got wet races you want aggro mistakes you want teammates that freaking hate each other

you want we've got it all yeah I'd observe a couple things I think when Max thinks he's

unbeatable he's about the most dangerous and intimidating Formula One driver ever yes I don't

I think he's got something even the yellow helmet of the 80s might have not had because he's he's

just cool he's lethal um the car's working and he likes the car there's there's a sense of freedom

in that team that I suspect we know why um he's driving beautifully he's making good decisions

I think Oscar has imploded a bit but he's you know how old is he how on earth are you supposed to

sustain this pressure it's horrific yeah what was I doing at his age I couldn't even bloody order a

burger without getting it wrong so what what these young men have to endure at Antonelli

I mean it's just he's barely a foetus and he's controlling a Formula One car it's absolutely

bonkers so but all the ingredients are there Max has got momentum I'm not sure I believe the Mexico

is the the the sort of denomination of what we expect the outcome to be for this reason because

I think that that Red Bull has proved itself to be a bit handy on various types quite a wide

variety of circuits since the summer break it's impressive um does make you wonder what you know

why did it take so long to to unlock this car what you know what was what was the thing and maybe

after the season they'll tell us sometimes maybe they won't but it's it's good viewing I really

want to tune in now because we don't know who's going to win this and I I didn't think it was

mathematically really going to be possible from from the Dutch Grand Prix and he's just

gnawing away at them it's it's fabulous to watch because of all the drivers in the world you don't

want coming up behind you it must be all you must be shitting yourself and he doesn't really he has

that advantage of being the underdog he doesn't really care but Chris I think you know there is

there's just one one thing we just must say that Max has won four championships in a row

Red Bull are a championship winning team you know the one of eight championships

um and and McLaren haven't won for a long time and I think sometimes you know that last

seven you know 20 meters 10 meters five meters I mean they're the hardest you do when you haven't

been a championship winning team for a while and we don't we have no idea what McLaren are

throwing at next season given their massive lead only four races ago I've just never been a believer

when you've got a system which gives you 25 points for a win and um eight points is it eight

points yeah it's eight points for a sprint win if you you can have a delta of 33 points any weekend

so even a 70 point lead is just you know it it's it's four DNFs two sprints and two races I you

know this will be over when it's over that's kind of the maths of this what I meant by Mexico by the

way was just I think we we haven't seen McLaren kind of full operational strength for a couple of

races and I think this is a really good race because it really should suit their car I think

actually Austin would have suited their car I'm not saying that Red Bull might not be the fastest

car what I'm saying is that Red Bull should be the fastest car but with the McLaren second and

third I think what we've seen is McLaren kind of slightly for operational reasons sometimes

falling behind Mercedes sometimes also falling behind Ferrari so I think that's what I meant

my lip test but can I can I add again here that what's happening to Oscar is he's he's making

tiny errors yes and then you realize how closely stacked these cars are if you make if you're just

two percent off form you're not second or third you're suddenly seventh yeah yeah and then you

start seventh and then your whole weekend you're on the back foot then you think in that first

corner I've got to get past four cars we've all done it everyone's race what you don't realize is

that you're it all started going wrong way back in earlier in your weekend and you're just playing

catch up and the moment you're playing catch up you make mistakes and you you open yourself up to

serendipity which will shit on you it always does but the part of this sorry is just that he went

after Lando and Oscar for the last four or five races his only rival in his mind was Lando and I

think deprogramming that might actually help him back off slightly I think that's the point that's the

real point and also just quickly before we go on to our two car garage yes papaya rules

it now sounds like a stupid fucking thing isn't it always sounded like that yeah

if they don't win the championship I think we can say it was because of papaya rules

I do think they've ended up with around their necks well intentioned and it's something you

can do when you've got an epoch defining car that so many better than everyone else is but once

you're back in a fifth fight I'm not sure papaya rules is that useful it's like walking into a

brawl carrying a bible isn't it really it's like no lads it's not going to help you so I think

yeah as you pointed out last the last Grand Prix when McLaren became championships

was effectively the end of papaya rules I mean it doesn't in a way now it doesn't matter

it really doesn't matter which of the two it really doesn't matter you're saying the papaya

rules is what's let's is what has let max in no I'm saying if McLaren don't win the world driver

championship yes I would I would say that it was because of papaya rules not because I think

papaya rules are what have let max possibly become champion I mean let's see yeah yeah

okay let's go for our two car garage I'll read it out now this is a long podcast sorry but we're

giving you extra material because we took a week off last week we're lazy let's go to our two car

garage two car garage brackets not for fucking OAPs as Neil would say I'm not supposed to read

that bit out am I um you had dreams of being a rock star all your life and giggled sorry giggled

gigs proficiently did some session work and even got the world's smallest record contract but it's

been a hard life of rodeeing and odd jobs then Chris Martin from Coldplay heard you jamming in

the studio between sessions and went gargar for some of your old tunes he's remixed three

they're all hits and you're going on tour with them woohoo you're 55 you've got that hair transplant

and you're a millionaire rock star you need two cars one that says I'm a baller baby as you drive

into Soho the other that says I've got a country pad with its own recording studio the budget is 200

of your uk thousand pounds or whatever so within reason chaps keep it 200 if you can go a bit further

let's delve into car and classic and find some goodness um let's go first Chris Cooper

I found some goodness yep I think Neil's kind of got one of these and I just I really cover

Neil's it's lovely um 280 se convertible goes on auction goes on auction in about 10 days time

um and anywhere in that car anywhere monaco f1 in the square 100% and actually that is a good test

because and Chris you've kind of already said this there's another car that passes that test

you can go anywhere in it yeah range over and this goes this starts on probably I think on

Saturday or Sunday just so just after we this this goes um this goes live I mean that is just with

those the three spoke it's the only three spoke and I will that I think has ever worked

and that's all classic AX GT Saab Saab apart from those two

Saab's a good shout out man okay two really good cars I think Cooper is Cooper has got a lead here

and I'm not convinced that that um that Neil Clifford is going to catch him but he's confident

well I'm just adding cars you can turn up anywhere too on them yeah

we've got a few add we've got a few additional yeah oh come on Rolls Royce come on

fucking look at that yeah that's yeah I do like those showing up and in in a red wow

come on yeah that's from factory a red mark if you're smoking into Soho with window down

air conditioning probably doesn't work anyway big cigar parking in poland street you know what I mean

up that little smelly where everyone's at a piss the night before

we've all been there in there that's what we've been doing but yeah can't keep going

we've all been there in that poland street oh god I've got to walk through the

down the stairs pretty quickly but nevertheless what what a bloody car and then I'm really torn

but soon as you've taken the Range Rover I'm not going the Range Rover I'm referring back to my

supercar just on the line supercar a brown with tan Maserati Bora oh yeah okay and those two cars

can be interchanged the Bora at a dawn through Soho so that's the thing I think that is in terms

of potential issues going forward the best ever two-car garage you might never see either of them

you basically gotta have a bottle of water in both cars you imagine something like Maserati

tell you what let's make a Maserati that's got like Citroen SM bits in it that'll be really

reliable can you imagine splicing together two more troublesome things so Manish what are you

gonna go for 97 Bentley Azure convertible you're going to say in that baby I think they are such

beautiful cars they are genuinely such beautiful cars and I think you know same thing cigar

you know pate replete with new hair straight through uh straight I personally I drive it you

know you go up to Greek street with you you just you'd leave it for the valley at Soho House to park

you'd wander up you'd order yourself a martini park outside Baratalia even better even better

and then the other one I actually found so that's actually on sale in seven days I think

and I found this I'm sorry there's a bit of group thing but this is the 94 soft dash

Range Rover yeah well I think that's about the most beautiful five door Range Rover to my eyes

it really is and that just says country pad to me isn't it such a long wheelbase or standard

I think it's a long wheelbase car LSE LSE why was that color um yeah LSE cool

yeah uh I mean I like these these are some of the strongest pairings

ironically enough I chose them one of the cars we discussed earlier I would have an SLS yeah

it's a blue one it's actually in it it's in Italy that one um it's blue but I just I think that

dark blue that they did the car with the tan interior that is perfect Joe Joe McCarrie's got

one oh I miss mine it was good and mine had ceramic brakes of a bloody rare option so um

I great minds and all I'm going Brit I'm going Bruiser I'm going Conti T there's a leggy one

it's a dark blue car no we love it we love that and it's it's it's that DD classics whatever

they're called it's just stunning I I'm obsessed with Conti T's at the moment so those be my two

I think Conti T is just about country paddish yeah I don't want to range really let's do some music

before we go um I will start with Mr Cooper so it's episode 58 so obviously I didn't choose

anything to do with a number 58 I did choose however 99 red balloons by Naina hanging tune

and I saw a little bit English which version I prefer the German version and it made me look

up this week that great TV series because the world's in a certain place right now there was a

fantastic TV series few years ago called Deutschland 83 yes the most popular German language show

ever seen in the UK it's on channel four years ago it's a brilliant story it's kind of like

follows the history of 1983 perching missiles abel archer you love that kind of stuff which

we kind of do it's lovely so and I watched a bit of that I thought 99 red balloons for episode 58

would be perfect yeah it's a good video that Naina was as far as I was concerned one of the most

beautiful women I've ever seen in my life but with the hairiest armpits it was just no there's

just no need for it sorry but it's a fair observation and some people just into that

what did Neil just say no need for what manish or hairy armpit

I'm with you manish thank you let's go let's go for um milk lippard right Dave Ball passed away

the keyboard player of soft cell yeah oh no no when um yesterday oh no no I miss that very sad

non-stop erotic cabaret is one of my favorite albums you know it was 81 yep it was called disco

no one new tainted love was a was a cover no it was fucking it was a digital song you've ever

heard it so 20 years later you realize it was a cover version but that that whole album you know

I can I can I just to do it but um bed sitter oh what I mean that that is a tune the the lyrics

of that I mean that is the proper London so ho in your Maserati Bora that's just fantastic

and bless him rest in peace let's go to manish um bluish the cult don't fear the reaper drive that

it is such a great piece of music when you're driving good song so my subcategory for this week

was songs whose intros when you hear them make you melt with a memory or just the sheer brilliance

of the way someone manages to start a piece of music get into their tune so quickly but it

I think there's those opening bars are so clever when they're done well go and listen to

Stevie Wonder golden lady oh massive that is just caramel first 20 seconds it's good word

just makes me yeah we want to hug people it's gorgeous so without being moaned out as a name

drop we just tell you a quick Stevie Wonder story before we sign off there was a very very tiny

period of time where I almost got to do a project with Stevie Wonder didn't happen

but I got to drive in a in a car with him to Gatwick Airport

I spent that such a cheap joke even for you Cooper

so we arrived at Gatwick Airport and I was talking to him about this project and explaining

something he's he's a real you know he I mean he is an extraordinary human being we got out of

this four by four we got we got out of this minivan at Gatwick Airport and his PR team

had not told Gatwick Airport that he was coming to take this flight so thank god this was Britain

it's one of these stories so the doors open I get out with this producer with Stevie and with his

mind and we get into the lift the normal lift to go to the departure section of the British Airways at

Gatwick Airport and people are crashing their luggage trolleys into each other and so I'm in the

lift I mean I'm in the lift with this very normal family who are obviously going off on their holiday

and the dad he's so English right and so is the mom and they're staring the kids don't know he is

they're staring at him the dad mouths the word is that Stevie wonder you know he just mouths it okay

and all I could do is go like that I nod and then he goes he just goes which is wow

the door opens we go out and I go up to the check-in and I just said to them

listen I don't think anyone's phoned you but I've got Stevie wonder with me and he's catching the

flight this is no bullshit he's catching the flight to Geneva and the guy looks over my

shoulder see Stevie wonder and suddenly about 5 000 British Airways people descend and create a VIP

area just off the check-in and sit down and just surround him and every single one of them wants

some kind of autograph or could you um something it was the man he was amazing I mean sat there

hung your wave whatever it was that was actually the most starstruck I've ever seen anyone the most

starstruck I've ever been sorry he's amazing I don't know if anyone was there at the in Hyde Park

all those years ago and he did songs the key of life starts finished just did it he just did the

album in order yeah it was just another planet okay so that was 58 I apologize if he didn't look as

good as it should do Finley's away we miss him Finley get back will you this is a bloody disaster

without you um and uh I'm going to do my best to try and edit it so if I if when he says 205 t16

there's a picture of a reliant Robin or something do that anyway okay no no no don't pop up the Aston

Martin bit for God's sake that's a bit yeah I don't think we've got time to put all the pictures of

the 10 supercars let's just stick with the two-car garage because it is actually Thursday night okay

so um thank you very much we love you all come back next week for 59 right housekeeping don't ring off

your Chris and Neil says you're 99% yeah I'll leave it running you're only on 69 yes you just

stay I'm gonna press stop record fucking virgin media fuck them

What car punches above its weight | The Car Podcast #58

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