What cars are better to look at than drive? | The Car Podcast #71

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Hello and welcome to the car podcast.

Chris Harris and his friends.

Our locations are interesting.

I'm somewhere in Chiswick, a city in a Bentley Continental T hoping the Batu won't go flat.

Manages in Abu Dhabi in his Bezier little residence.

Neil Clifford has got a torch on and is I think somewhere in the home counties as is Chris Cooper.

It's episode 71, which is, as Chris Cooper pointed out, 69 plus two.

And as Manage Pandey pointed out, the name of our favorite man series, Spike Lane.

Work that one out.

You see?

Oh, yes.

Yes.

Right.

Oh, yes. Here we go.

Any excuse for a drive?

Discuss.

This is the very core of the condition, the very genesis of the addiction.

This is what it's all about.

Chris Cooper.

I love this.

It's the my two favorite phrases when I'm just going for a drive.

Nowhere in particular.

I'll easily say to Lynn, I'm just going to put some petrol in the car.

That's what it is.

Just go to practice car or the least successful activity in the whole of my life.

I'm just going to go and do a few chores, which means I'm not going to do any chores.

Any chores that I have will not be executed on this little trip.

It's just that it's enough, though.

It's that sort of, I don't know why I feel the need to justify it,

but I sort of do really with Lynn and me or even when the boys are around.

It's to say, I'm about to go out for a drive nowhere in particular,

other than to enjoy the act of driving a motor car.

And it's that little code, isn't it?

You sort of that understanding with your loved ones as to

don't expect them to do anything or anything useful other than just the enjoyment of driving a car.

So it sounds like I've got an excuse.

Sometimes when I say I'm going to go and put petrol in the car,

I actually mostly do do that because even if it's really, really near the brim,

you can still get a few quid in.

And I think these days a minimum dispensing amount or value is about two quid or something like that.

Yeah.

Maybe a couple of litres, a bit more than that.

So maybe four quid, whatever it is.

So that's good because you can stop then and you can get out of the car and look at your car

and think, oh, have I cleaned it well enough?

Or there's a bit of brake dust on one of the wheel spokes.

I'll go and get a bit of cloth and the little thing on the petrol pump and clean it off.

But otherwise, I don't need any excuse to go for a drive other than I'm just going to go and do some chores,

which nobody in my household expects any chores to be done.

It is the absolute heart of our disease.

It really is.

No clippers.

Well, we've agreed to do this podcast at a one and a half time speed because I am fucking jet lagged.

It's about one o'clock in the morning with Manish.

Chris is stuck in a car and he's got to drive to Bristol.

So I'm just going to read my notes.

I love just going for a drive.

I've got all the excuses in the world.

I'm going to the shops.

I'm going to the petrol station.

Actually, when it comes to petrol, in the winter, should we leave our cars empty of petrol?

Because petrol goes off or should we fill them all up?

In case, I don't know, something goes wrong with the petrol tank.

Anyway, going to buy Maltesers on a Saturday night, you can't beat that.

Fill up the petrol two gallons and then get yourself some Maltesers.

Eggs on a Saturday morning.

That's a very good excuse, even if you've already got fucking 18 eggs in the fridge.

We can dusk, dusk drives.

We even do that now as a convoy.

It used to be my daughter Ruby, but unfortunately,

she's grown up and buggered off to bloody wherever she lives.

Clap them.

So now we've got Vincent in tow.

And I've got 20 different little 40 minute routes.

One of the best things about moving out of London is moving to a place

where there's not as much traffic.

Therefore, you can have all these different routes that 40 minutes long,

just enough to warm the car up, get all the gauges moving,

fill up with petrol, buy Maltesers and get back home to go out for another drive just after that.

So it's just wonderful.

That's what we do at weekends.

That's what weekends are for.

I like that.

There's a t-shirt in there.

Get the gauges moving.

I love that concept.

Yeah.

When you get in the gauges moving, constantly the gauges drive.

Unless the gauges move, it's not a drive, is it?

That's true, yeah.

Okay, manage.

I'll read that down.

Any excuse for a drive?

Gosh, I would love to have any excuse for a drive.

I think in my soul, I'm so jealous of Neil, you and Chris.

Because this whole central London thing, especially if you have a nice car

that you can't keep anywhere near you, that's garaged.

And if I walked very quickly, it would take me 25 minutes to get to Lola.

Otherwise, you have to take a taxi to get to Lola.

And that kind of takes the sort of real fizz out of that.

And I think it could actually be my excuse for leaving London.

I like to think of myself as a kind of metropolitan person.

When somebody goes to the theater, goes to movies, goes out to restaurants.

Would I give all of that up for a stable full of cars

that I could drive on weekends or weekdays on any excuse?

I would.

I would in a minute, I would, actually.

I have to say, since Lola has been working,

I've been finding any excuse to go out on weekends for lunch.

There you go.

And it's actually, it's a glorious thing to do.

You just, it's your 40-minute journey Neil, multiplied by six.

So I sort of make it a four-hour round trip.

But it's lovely to go up a motorway and let a really rip for a good 30 minutes.

And I found doing that, she's less problematical.

All the gauges move.

I fill her up with petrol.

I've discovered Shell 100V power.

I've discovered it.

It's rather wonderful stuff.

In fact, I don't think I've been to a BP station

since I picked her up from cars.

So you guys told me about it.

So when you go for lunch, when you go for lunch on top of you,

when you go for some...

Well, they're the best gauges.

The best gauges.

I love it.

Chris is showing us the gauges.

Even though all the illumination is slightly different on each one in a Conti T.

Yeah.

Of course.

Well, there you go.

Sorry, carry on.

When you go for lunch...

So I have to say St Albans is a fantastic...

That's very close to where Neil and I live.

Really reasonably.

But you've never invited us.

We could go on a convoy.

Let's do it.

Oh, it's too late now.

Aww.

Please.

Come.

We could do that.

Let's do that.

Yeah.

I promise not to break down.

Or if I do, I'll make it funny.

And really...

I'll bring a trailer.

...big.

Yeah, exactly.

I'll bring a trailer.

I think this phrase might be the most important one that we've grappled with

in the whole of this podcast and its previous incarnation.

Because actually the more you look at it, the more it does hit the very soul and essence

of why we do this and why we love cars and why we sit and prattle about them and why

all of you that listen prioritise cars in ways that you can't really explain to others

or justify to others or yourself.

So the great thing about any excuse for a drive is that all of you guys have expressed it beautifully.

But I think it goes a bit further in that any excuse for a drive can make...

Well, first of all, it's the reason why you do the thing you're doing, even if it shouldn't be.

Right?

So when you go on a mission, you do it for the drive, even if the mission is important.

I can remember going to collect some of my children when they'd been born from hospital.

That came under the heading of any excuse for a drive.

Because I sat there and ruminated, should I take the C55 estate?

Well, that's the right car for the drive.

I'm already thinking, how can I can talk this mission to suit my driving criteria?

It's all about the driving.

But there are other ways that it makes it brilliant.

It's another reason why the car lover is winning.

Because even when we've got to go on a drive for a shitty reason,

we actually get to do it in a car that comes under the heading of any excuse for a drive.

So suddenly, I hate to say it, funerals become less funerial,

because you're going in a car you want to go in.

I hate to say it works.

I was going to say that.

It works on every fucking level.

It does.

And it's an excuse to buy the triple black off of car and classics.

Oh, my day.

So actually...

You can buy a lower, Chris.

She's as black as they come.

I think there are other aspects that I find fascinating as well.

But you did it.

Maybe the fact that you did this before you realized it

cements your status as one of us.

So for example, I would do this the whole time.

I used to nominate myself as the driver to go to the pub,

because I'd get to drive home from the pub.

Even though I wanted to drink.

I preferred driving to drinking at times.

And for me, it was like, great.

You'd sit there and you'd think, I've quite had to get pissed for the last.

But actually, I get to drive home 11 miles through Barrow Gurney when it's quiet.

And there's a fucking great big jump there.

And I really enjoy that.

And that's better than drinking.

In other ways, there was synergy.

So I love the fact that when children are young,

what's the one thing that could put a toddler with teething problems to sleep?

Put them in the back of the bloody car.

Any excuse for a drive.

It's wonderful.

Well done.

Whoever came up with that needs a bloody medal.

I think it was probably clippard.

If all cars were invisible, what car would you choose to daily?

No budget.

OK, so this is the image free car.

So basically, great question.

So you forget what the car looks like and how that might impress people.

So we're moving to a sort of, we're moving to a communist state.

Manage over to you.

I read this two ways.

It was either, is this the paper bag question?

Like would you put a paper bag over your head as you drive this car?

Because it's so ugly and it doesn't matter how much it costs.

Or is it the other way around?

Pick a hugely expensive car that won't be stolen because no one can see it.

That was how I read it.

Is that wrong as well?

Yes.

The context of this question is you're taking away the image part of the car.

So you're not trying to impress anyone.

No one can see the car.

It doesn't matter what it is.

It's not a 911.

It's not an F40.

It's just the pure driving pleasure with no element of showing off.

Or shame.

That's critical.

That goes both ways.

Yes.

Gosh, I was trying to think.

I would really, I'd love to do it actually.

I would love to daily an invisible mirror.

That is what I would love to do.

I've seen Chris do that video.

Do you remember a year ago the red mirror with the blue leather interior?

Do you remember what I said about Lola?

The reason why I did the interior is because you can't see the outside of the car

when you're driving a car.

And I think just to drive that car and park it invisibly anywhere,

to go up and down motorways in that car, just knowing that I'm in a mirror,

that would be an absolute dream state.

No one needs to know just me.

I love that you've answered that question in a way that neither Neil or I expected.

But I sort of, I get it.

Neil, you answer it the way you think it should be answered.

Me.

Yeah, Neil.

Yeah.

Well, we were chatting about this on Saturday, if you remember.

And this chat come up between the two of us.

Because my favorite car to drive at the moment, of course, just like V8,

the answer might be different next week, is the Porsche Boxster Spyder.

Of course, I own one of these cars, but I also do own, I'm lucky enough to own a

more other poncia, more show offy, flashy look at me.

I've got a big knob, even though I've got a small knob type of car.

And actually, the one I enjoy driving the most, even though I don't think the image

maybe is classically as important, is that car.

It's got a brilliant noise.

It's little.

And I think we underestimate how important little cars are in the driving experience in general.

It's got a roof that you can take off.

It's finely balanced from the front and rear weight bollocks.

So you feel like you can drive good.

You feel like you've got more skills than you've actually got.

From an image perspective, clearly it's a Porsche.

So you could be like, oh, he's got a Porsche.

He must be some sort of knobby bloke.

But it's a bit feminine.

You know, whenever you're driving a Boxster, you see a 911 go past,

you're like, I wish I was in a 911 really, even though fundamentally the Boxster is

better to drive.

But if no one can see you, I think it neutralizes everything.

And that's the car I would choose.

I've owned Carrera GTs.

I've owned stupid cars that I've never enjoyed 10% as much as driving that little Boxster.

Are you saying that to enjoy the Boxster fully, it would have to be invisible?

That's sort of what I'm saying.

It's interesting.

Yeah.

I suppose I am saying.

It is a fantastic car to drive.

Neil, I was in South Africa a few years ago, and somebody loaned me one for the week.

It was a Boxster S, and I must admit, the absolute driving pleasure of that kind.

It's everything you say.

It's a Porsche, but it's small.

It just, it was such a dinky thing to drive.

Maybe it's about in line with my capabilities.

You know, maybe I can drive that car at seven or eight out of 10,

whereas if I'm in a bloody four litre 997, I can only drive that car at four or five out of 10.

And that's not as enjoyable because you're not in a period of what the car was designed for.

I can drive a Boxster Spider at eight tenths, and probably that's when the

ultimate driving pleasure point arrives in a car.

Maybe.

I'll refer to Chris Harris on that because I don't really know.

We've probably all seen the video, which is controversial but funny,

the hot, crazy matrix, the thing about that is extremely sexist, but it's a joke.

It's funny.

And for those that haven't seen it, it's a sort of graph that defines,

you know, the hotter a woman becomes, the crazier she becomes.

That's the joke.

And I think there could be a male equivalent as well that, you know, the sexier a man is,

the more, you know, vain he is.

I think it doesn't need to be couched in misogyny, but it works in the car world as well because

there is absolutely, always has been a relationship historically between how exciting a car looks

and how much people respond to it and how difficult it is actually to drive.

So this is always the case in the 70s and 80s and 90s and actually early 90s.

If you wanted a bona fide supercar, you can guarantee one thing.

It was bloody awful to drive or it was a challenge or it was difficult.

And if you actually, if you told anyone that you prefer driving it or find it easier to drive it

than a Ford Fiesta or a Ford Focus, you were lying.

But you, so you had to acknowledge the fact that you, there was a penalty to pay for being

noticed and that penalty was probably very difficult to see out or very difficult to drive

and a bit of a handful and if it was wet, you might fall off.

Then something called the Bugatti Chiron was released and it changed the world forever

because you didn't need to change gear.

You need to double declutch.

You need to do any of that shit.

It just went like the clappers and you could drive it like an automatic BMW.

And ever since then, people have been very lucky and had a skewed view of this

because most supercars are pretty easy to drive.

They really are.

And in that case, actually, you can sort of treat them like Porsche Boxsters,

but there's the other problem that comes in, even if you accept the fact they're easy to drive now.

And that is that if you get it wrong or you prank them or someone opens a door on one in a car park,

you've probably got an enormous bill.

So actually you've still got this intimidation factor that comes with the whole thing.

And so when you're being honest with yourself, actually, you're right.

If a car was invisible, how many times would I choose to have been in something much more ordinary?

Even if the cars we owned, if you've got a few cars, you have to acknowledge the fact

that you chose that car to do that journey because it was visible to other people.

You probably did.

And we've all been guilty of it.

I've definitely done it.

And normally the law of Murphy means that that one chance you stick your neck out and think,

I'll take that one, is when you have to go to a muddy field to pick up a kid or something

and you get the bloody things stuck.

But I think there's definitely a matrix of peacockery versus usability.

You know what I mean?

And you enjoy them.

Yeah, but this is a bit more than enjoyment.

This is about being seen.

We're playing to vanity here as well.

And once you include vanity in people's decision making, it normally goes a bit wrong.

Chris Cooper.

I see it's sort of the mirror image of that.

I think this is a great question.

I think it's one of the best questions we've had because it goes to the heart of

your self-consciousness and sort of self-awareness and sense of self.

And how do you see yourself and how do you fear other people might see you

and worry about what that is, even if they don't know who you are.

You just think, I suppose it's that sort of, oh, I couldn't be seen in that.

I just, I die.

And it goes and sort of the apex of that debate is when you sort of,

even if you've never driven it, you imagine the car is probably really, really capable.

Even if you didn't want to drive it the whole time, it's really, really capable.

It does lots of things incredibly well.

It's the state of the art of what it is.

But you still think, but I couldn't, I couldn't.

And I mean, to my mind, there's only one answer.

It's the Rawlsworth Cullinan because I literally couldn't be seen dead in it.

I would, I would literally die if I wasn't already dead.

I'd soon be dead.

I think no way.

Are you choosing it because you actually want to drive it?

You just don't want to be seen in it?

Correct.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's how he's taken that, the ultimate self-conscious car.

If all cars are invisible, what car would you choose to daily?

I'm, you know, I think it's too big and whatever, but that's the whole point.

If it was invisible, you'd think it doesn't matter.

It's actually, it's a brilliant answer.

And it's the right car, but also it's a brilliant car.

That's the other thing about it.

That's kind of my hypothesis.

Because actually the only thing stopping me, only one, is the way it looks.

But the way it rides, the way it goes is phenomenal.

Yeah, I risk my case.

That's what I said, you know, this question really about the paperback car,

you know, the car that might drive just absolutely stunningly,

but you wouldn't, you'd wear a paperback or you'd put one on the car.

But I think it's a paperback car.

Yeah, it is.

I think that's right.

Although I don't find the colour then as bad as maybe some of you guys.

That's why I said it's about, that's why it's a great question.

It's very personal.

It's quite personal.

Very good.

That's why it's a great question, Neil.

This is a truncated podcast this evening, so I do, this morning for you,

so I do apologise.

We're going to rush on to our hot hatch quiz, which will be prepared by,

and I suspect we'll probably cause quite a bit of anger here.

I'm looking for antagonism.

If we're in the same room, maybe even some fisty cuffs.

Oh, well, it struck me last week when we sort of stumbled across this,

that a number of some elementary and schoolboy errors were made by some of the group.

So I think there are some rules here.

And I think this quiz, as we go through some examples,

it will help us identify the rules so we won't make these mistakes again.

So we'll start with an easy one.

So this is hot hatchback or not a hot hatchback.

Okay, simple as that.

First example, Fiat Panda 100 HP.

Not a hot hatchback.

No.

Yes, has to, no, has to be hot hatch.

Yes.

Too dark.

Not a hot hatchback.

Why not?

Why?

Because it is, as someone has written about these endlessly,

get some tissues out, it's a warm hatchback.

It's not hot, it's warm, but not fast enough.

I agree, I think it's not a hot hatchback.

Okay.

I think it's warm.

Yes.

If it fits some of the criteria, it's come to a moment.

Okay.

Easy one.

Mark 1 Golf GTI.

Hatchback.

Hot hatchback.

The definition of a hot hatchback.

It is the definition of a hatchback.

So the next one should be really, really easy.

No.

Mark 7 Golf GTD.

You're going to say this.

Can a diesel be a hot hatchback without a tow?

You tell me.

No, it can't.

It's not a hot hatchback.

No.

Yeah, not a hatch.

Why not?

Because it's diesel?

No, because it's diesel and it's not tow-recharged.

Well, yeah, we had the Golf,

we had the Golf Mark 7 last week as a hot hatchback.

So we are declaring the diesel crosses out.

Yes.

But I think we probably is correct.

The Lancia Delta HF.

No.

HF Turbo.

The Integrali.

Yes, the Integrali.

Yeah, hot hatchback.

Sorry, Chris.

Absolutely, Delta HF Turbo is a hot hatch.

And Integrali is not.

That's absolutely simple for me.

Yeah, okay.

All right.

I agree with that as well.

I think that's fair, yeah.

I do agree with that.

Peugeot 309 GTI.

But you said no last week.

You did this last week.

It's too fucking long.

Too long.

There are rules here.

So I'm going to write down on my rules.

It's not a GTI,

because Neil Clifford had a negative experience

with something long when he was younger.

No.

If it's a free door, I'm willing to discuss it.

But in my head, I always see a 309 as five door.

I always see him as three door.

Interesting.

They do have three door ones.

They must have been gearboxes.

The Goodwood.

The Goodwood one had five doors, didn't it?

I think there was a five door one.

Goodwood.

With that green.

Yeah, loaded wheels.

Okay.

Peugeot 306 GTI.

Hot hatch.

Yep.

Not quite as long as the 309,

but secretly it really is.

I'm going to write down by that one.

It's three inches shorter, hence the number.

I've got a couple.

I've got a couple more.

Oh, very good.

Toyota GI Yaris.

Hot hatch.

That's a hot hatch.

No.

Why is it not a hot hatch, Mr. H?

Why is it not a hot hatch?

Too fast.

It's too fast to be a hot hatch.

No.

It's only got three cylinders.

I think a hot hatch, and I'm being very old school here.

So for me, Audi RS3, A45 AMG,

all those, they're not hot hatches.

Because a hot hatch...

You've got a 200 brake horsepower line there.

No, but I think a hot hatch...

First of all, two-wheel drive is very important for a hot hatch.

Two-wheel drive is really important for a hot hatch.

They've got to be joint killers.

They've got to be cars in which you have less power,

but you drive them in a manner,

and you have less weight,

that means that you can scalp much bigger,

more powerful machinery.

The hot hatch is David.

It's a biblical creature.

It's David.

And he's got a little sling.

The Yaris.

The Yaris is the modern-day David.

No, it's too clever.

It's too much power.

It's David above his station.

Well, how's the HF a hot hatch on that basis?

It's a lunch, yeah.

I mean, it is.

Yeah, but the HF originally,

before the four-wheel drive,

was a two-wheel drive, 150 horsepower hot hatchback.

1.6 turbo.

Where am I going to go next?

Honda Integra Type R.

No.

It was scuffed last week.

Too long.

See, I think it is a hot hatch.

It is a bit too long,

but I think it must be a hot hatch.

Can I just give you a suggestion last week?

Can I suggest I think there are at least two rules here?

Go on.

Can I answer the Integra first?

Yep.

Because the Integra answer for me is,

will really help this debate.

On every measurement that I think you're going to list,

the Honda Integra Type R is a hot hatchback,

but it isn't.

Why do you think it isn't?

Because it isn't.

Can I tell you why it isn't?

Because I think there's a reason why it isn't.

It doesn't have a hatchback.

It does have a hatchback.

Because a hot hatchback,

I think there are two rules.

Maybe three, actually.

I think one...

What are the first two, quickly?

The first two rules are,

the first rule is,

it's got to be based on a hatchback

which you'd see everywhere.

And people would have it as a small car

for a young couple or an individual or a small family.

And it's everywhere,

like a Golf or a Ford Focus

or a Ford Escort that begat an XR3.

A Honda Integra ain't in that beast.

So it's designed to be for us.

And that's why I think we're being racist

against Japanese hot hatches.

No, we're not.

We're actually being inclusive.

The other thing a hot hatch has got to do

what's it got to do, Mr Harris?

I don't know.

Shall I tell you,

it's got to lift an inside rear wheel

when you're cornering hard.

But the Honda can do that.

Yeah, see, that's not the only rule, though, is it?

And the other rule...

It's got the go-to thing.

Let's get back to my point.

The other rule is...

If we need expert advice...

Come on, put the perimeter on.

Where we want to go to?

We go to the knowledge

in Evo Magazine in the back.

Hot hatches.

Yeah, actually.

I think we can narrow it down from there.

And I think you're right.

Not too much power, probably not four-wheel drive.

Got to cock a rear wheel.

And there have got to be loads of them about.

And the hot version is the one...

It's the XR3, the Golf GTI.

This is the XR3 Hot Hatch.

I wouldn't say XR3 was a hot hatch.

It could be a hot hatch.

It is. XR2.

The XR3 is not a hot hatch.

I don't think so.

We've got so many problems we need to discuss in therapy.

Too long.

We've got one last question for you.

Mark I, Ford Focus RS.

Hot hatchback or not a hot hatchback?

Hot hatchback.

Hot hatch. Mark I, definitely.

Yeah, just.

I think Mr. Harris and I are more aligned on this

than I thought we would be.

That's because you drive and you come back and do more of these.

But the Integra is interesting,

because it wasn't a common ordinary car here,

but of course in Japan it was.

Yeah, so for us culturally it isn't.

Yeah.

Okay, let's go to...

That's very good.

We're doing more of those.

What cars are better to look at than drive?

Name just one.

This is a bit of a score-sattling exercise.

I think this is a bit like saying,

which girl had the worst breath?

Tell me one girl that had bad breath.

Oh boy.

It could be a boy with bad breath,

but not that way.

You know, we're not exclusive on that.

Let's go to Neil Clippard first.

Oh, E30 M3.

Oh, yeah, he's not wrong.

Honestly, I've owned five of the bloody things.

I hate...

I don't like...

It's gutless.

It looks amazing.

You could have it in here for the rest of your life.

You'd enjoy looking at it every single day.

You drive to the petrol station, you're bored shitless.

I think that's hashtag first world problems, Mr Clippard.

That's not the subject in this discussion.

I'm just saying, I could name many of these cars,

but for me, the E30 M3 is the peak of disappointment.

He's answered the question of what he's done, Mr Cooper.

Now I can ask you the same thing.

Me?

I was going to say almost every alpha,

until quite recently,

due to quadrophobia,

but there is one which was an unbelievable discord

between seeing it and driving it.

Late 80s, last of the run, Alphasud Sprints.

What a shit box.

Yeah.

What a shit box.

It was really a colleague of mine,

when I was working at Deloitte's in the late 80s,

when people had...

She was a real car freak.

She had an early M1 MX-5.

Before that, she had an Alphasud.

I had a Renault 5 GT Turbo,

then my famous red M1 MR2.

She said, I've got the ultimate enthusiast car,

an Alphasud Sprint.

I thought, look at that thing.

It's just, it looks 10 times more value than me.

And she said, do you want to borrow it for a weekend?

So she lived down in Canary Wharf,

so I went down to get it.

And honestly, I can't believe how crestful that was.

The steering was shit, the braking,

it just felt like it was going to understeer everywhere.

The engine felt really coarse.

It was just awful.

Alphasud late 80s, Alphasud Sprint.

That little flat four is a cute little engine, actually.

Yeah, it didn't.

I drove a daily one for two years,

between Portsmouth and Guilford Debenhams.

Did you?

In the end, I wrote it off

by driving in the rain without rain tyres.

I'd have written it off on day one.

Yeah.

Get rid of the pain.

I mean, is it not as the fact that Chris Cooper

uttered the phrase, my famous red MR2?

I never thought I'd hear him say that.

That was a bit, that's how you want to be invisible.

That is a t-shirt in the making,

that is my famous red MR2.

I write that one down.

Manish.

I mean, again, I've read this

in a completely different way to the group.

I've read this as, name a car that's fantastic to drive,

but looks even better than it is fantastic to drive.

And I think a 458 Speciale, for me, is that exact then.

It's a fantastic car to drive,

and it looks even better than it drives.

Yes.

I like your interpretation.

It's a very positive way of looking at things.

Everyone's a winner.

Everyone's a winner in there.

We can do that as another subject another time.

Now, there's a few of these.

I'll just get Fiat X19.

A Fiat X19 might fit your box.

I always thought they looked great.

They were rubbish to drive.

I think that's true, yeah.

That was a bad car to drive.

I mean, the E30M3, the E30M3, I agree with Neil.

I had one of those Sportivo ones.

That was probably when I bought it,

it was one of the biggest moments of my life.

I finally, this was my car.

And when it landed, I drove it and I'm like, oh, my lord.

I think I got smoked by a 320D on the way home and thought,

it wasn't what I wanted it to be.

The Integrale, the first Integrale I drove was a bit,

I'm not where, what's going on here?

I've got one now that's got a load of power and it's fabulous.

But if you haven't got a load of power, again, you might be there.

I think, have I had to pin one though,

the most single disappointing car to drive versus its looks,

was a yellow Porsche 911 3.6 Turbo 964.

What do they call them?

Something like 965, right?

Yeah.

Worth a fortune.

It's the bad boys car, right?

But it's yellow.

This thing, everyone thinks they're the bollocks.

That was absolutely rotten to drive.

It had about an eight kilogram airbag on the steering wheel,

so you couldn't turn the steering wheel.

It's horrific.

So that all that lovely 911 dancey steering was just fucked.

It had about, it had 340 horsepower, 360 horsepower,

but it had that for about one RPM,

which was about a nanosecond before you had to change gears.

You never got anywhere near it.

It wasn't, it was utterly horrific in terms of the way you had it.

It just understood everywhere.

And if you backed off, then it started to bugger off into the woods.

And then they bought out the 996 Turbo afterwards,

sorry, the 993 Turbo afterwards,

and everyone crapped on about,

oh, they've lost it with the four-wheel drive.

Well, that car was, it was a pudding.

I mean, they are amazing to look at.

Don't get me wrong.

The best-looking 911 Turbo ever made.

But to drive, bucket of poo.

Yeah.

True.

Yeah.

Right, here we go.

Two car garage, which I haven't got on myself.

Before we do that, just before we do that,

because we're with through this a bit,

can we just say we're not doing most sport this week or F1,

but I just thought we couldn't go past the fact

that the Dakar rally finished last weekend.

And there was a great British victory.

The Defender.

Yes.

Octa Thingybob run and prepared and made better by ProDrive.

I declare an interest.

The chair of ProDrive is a colleague and chum of mine.

But ProDrive also with the Dacia sand rider thing,

for about the a millionth time of trying,

have finally won the overall Dakar event.

You could describe it as the Everest of motorsport.

It's just the hardest thing, so fickle and so forth.

So to a great British company like ProDrive, well done.

Yes.

Winning Dakar in the ultimate category and the Defender.

And I did wonder, we talked about the Yaris earlier.

I kind of, you know, we talk about Jaguar Land Rover and,

you know, there's, if you're trying to sell cars in the United States at the moment,

that's quite hard for various reasons we won't go into.

So for Defender to have such a great result, I thought was wonderful.

And if you're, if you like, if you're British, you feel good about it.

But if you like Defender, wherever you are, you should feel good about it.

So well done there.

I do hope they're now sat in a meeting saying,

let's do the Dakar special Hocter in the hearing aid beige with the wider arches.

I hope they're having that meeting as we speak.

Yeah, I'm sure they are.

I'm sure they are.

Let's charge us 350 grand for it.

Okay, let's go to our two car garage, which is my dear Neil,

may I request a once in a lifetime dose of car buying with them?

I have a genuine two car garage crisis.

Any crisis we're here to solve.

For the past three years, I've rented far too many cars, sometimes once to a month,

briefly living out car journalist fantasies.

The unintended result, I now get bored very quickly, no matter what I drive.

Know the feeling.

My wife, however, has simple requirements, apple carplay, parking cameras,

and ideally something green.

The rest is up to me.

I'm torn, hot hatch, luxury barge sports car.

As a young husband and father, I'm happy to spend,

but always conscious of what living the dream truly costs.

Budget 40k for two cars, the less spent, the happier the wife.

Here we go.

Both cars must have four seats or more, one sensible, one that I won't get bored of,

ideally something that isn't frequent traffic of Dubai.

I'm lost in the desert.

Please help.

So he is in Dubai.

This is car by Alex on Instagram, a lovely friend of mine.

Good lad.

Okay, so we've got two cars.

So there's criteria and he's in the desert, he's in Dubai, is he?

He is, yeah.

Okay, Neil, go first.

Yeah, okay, well, to be very quick and brief,

because I did actually hopefully take some bloody pictures of the cars I've chosen.

I've chosen, because V8s are the coolest, as everyone knows,

until next week.

I've chosen a Ford Mustang V8.

I can't find the picture, but it looks like that.

And I'll put the picture up.

The, I think it's 2016, 17, as I've got carplay,

but you can go to Auto Audio for 500 quid.

He can, old Greg can fit it.

And it's a V8 Mustang in red, bloody fantastic.

That's 27 grand on car and classics.

Lots of car for the money, isn't it?

A lot of car, if you think about it, a lot of car for the money.

And the other car I'm going to choose, which is a Golf Mk7 GTI, obviously.

A hot hatch.

You know, it's a hot hatch and it's got that interior, it's got the check.

Oh, the top.

It's got the golf ball, it's 20, oh, there's the, they're all at 24 grand.

There's the Ford Mustang, bloody amazing.

And then the golf looks like this.

I've only got a picture of the interior.

But anyway, it's 13 grand and he's got 1000 quid to install carplay in both cars.

Because it didn't come as standard in the Mk7 and it's 7.5.

I like it.

Okay, Manish.

Well, again, I seem to be reading standing on my head because I read this very much as

he didn't want to look as if he lived in Dubai, not Dubai.

I thought that was it.

So he was going for two very, very kind of placid, vaguely cognitive cars.

And I thought the one for his wife, I found this rather lovely BMW 330d.

It is white.

So that's touring, touring with just 40,000 miles on it.

And the asking price is 22,500, but I think he could probably do better.

And then I thought for him, I saw the six-speed Audi 2.0-litre, the TT, TFS,

which I think is just a lovely, just a lovely super underrated car.

And I think he'd probably get that for 11,000 pounds.

So I think he'd end up probably with 9,000 pounds left in the bank.

And I think the BMW does have carplay and that is his wife's car.

So he doesn't need to spend any more money than that.

I'd love to do a deep dive onto the Audi TT.

It's such a very interesting little genre of car.

It's one of one, isn't it, really, as a genre?

Yes.

It is.

It does work.

I thought this was a really, really fun one because you could go anywhere with it.

And the car at classic auction and classified size allowed me,

sort of not that I had much time earlier on this evening,

but I had a lot of fun with this one.

So the first car I chose was that lovely Jaguar S-Type.

It's the 4.2 V8, not the supercharged one, the normally aspirated one,

lovely engine, green, silver wheels, clear glass.

You could probably fit, fingers crossed,

carplay in a little retrofitted reverse cam.

That starts on auction on the 23rd.

I think that would probably leave you a reasonable amount of budget left

for another interesting car.

I hope these both are interesting.

And I do think these are quite fun cars.

Well, hang on, wrong one.

I do think these are quite fun cars.

Where is it?

Is that the one?

No, hang on, stay with me, viewers.

It is.

I quite like these.

It's a BMW 135i.

Front-wheel drive hatchback.

This is on the classifies.

It's up for 1990, 1995, 2020, M135 Auto.

I think that's actually quite fun.

I do quite like, that's one of the very few modern BMWs I quite like.

So I think S-Type, Jag, late model, that 4.2 non supercharged, and that.

In Dubai or any other part of the Gulf or nearer to home,

I think they both be great fun.

Okay.

That's true.

First for me is that.

Yarra's hatchback, not a hot hatchback.

Which as I said earlier is definitely a hot hatchback.

And I absolutely love.

And it's obviously, it's a brilliant motor car.

So that's for him.

The best thing about the hot hatch actually,

is it's capable of playing both roles in the family household.

A great hot hatch can do it all.

And this, if he can stick his wife in this, he's fine.

Because it's got Apple CarPlay and everything.

Now the other car, it's another hot hatch.

But this is her hot hatch, which is a Mini Cooper.

Oh, love it.

Now, love it.

I have to say, the great thing about the Mini,

is it's the best car for people that don't like cars.

Because they're charming, the interiors are brilliant, they're clever.

They're just, but they're also loved by people that love cars.

It's one of those, it's a bit like, it's the Simpsons as a car,

because it operates on two levels.

The Simpsons is, you know, so clever,

because it can be watched by children and adults.

And the Mini is the Simpsons of cars,

because it can be enjoyed by people that don't like cars,

but also appreciated by those that do love cars.

I think that's very true.

That's a lovely analogy, that one.

So do you think it is a hot hatch as well?

The John could work as a hot hatch, but the,

and I'm gonna, I'm now gonna muddy the waters,

because there's a definition we didn't acknowledge.

I think super hatch is a, is a genre.

And I think the yellow is, is the entry point to the super hatch.

Yeah.

I think I sent my mini, I sent my mini today to have carplay fitted.

Ah, good for it.

Because I love it so much.

And the only little chink in its armor,

that could force me to get rid of it, is no carplay.

And Greg, from Auto Audio, being a VR in Greg quite well tonight,

I can do that for you, Neil 300 quid, drop it off.

And I'm like, oh, I'm gonna keep that car forever now.

Right, that's good.

So next week, we're gonna give you a longer podcast

to make up for that one, it's a bit shorter.

It's very late where Manish is,

and I'm still sitting by the side of a road in Chiswick.

And Neil's just back now.

So we'll do some quick music now, Neil Clifford.

Angel from Montgomery, John Denver.

Like it, like it.

Chris Cooper.

We're recording this on Monday the 19th of January,

which apparently everyone's been telling us today is Blue Monday,

the most depressing day of the year.

Follow us to that.

Blue Monday by New Order is a great song.

Yes.

Stick it on.

Good.

And tomorrow, today's gonna be a good day.

Tomorrow's gonna be a good day.

Bloody good suggestion.

Manish Paddy.

Well, generally, I think Italian pop music is the worst in the world,

definitely the worst in Europe.

But in 1997, I don't know what made me remember this.

There's an amazing bit of Italian rap,

and it's called Quelli Che Ben Pensanti.

It means the right thinking ones, sarcastic piece of music,

featuring high energy MC and Riccardo Sinigalia.

Okay, you will love this.

This is a piece of music to listen to in a car, loudly.

Fabulous.

Now, I'm gonna go for something a bit more conventional,

but as intros go, this makes you want to get in a car and drive.

So, ELO, Last Train to London.

Love that.

Oh, great car.

Last train to London.

It's another one of those bands that you always thought were from America,

but actually they're from fucking World Grand Trials.

Or wherever.

It's so cool, isn't it?

Yeah.

Oh, brilliant.

In the 70s, you thought they were all from America.

They were.

They were from Warsaw.

Big spaceship on the album covers.

The violinist was called Mick Kaminsky.

What a fantastically exotic American name.

You have to be right.

Dari of Horace Wimp.

I spent hours listening to that as a lonely nine-year-old.

I'm gonna say that was my anthem when I was kind of cut me's older than you,

because I thought I know exactly how that band felt.

Yes, it was a love note.

That song gave me hope.

Honestly, same.

I'm gonna start my engine.

It's been a pleasure communicating with all of you.

Manage in the Middle East.

Chris Cooper in the home counties.

Neil Clifford in the same sort of area.

We're so sorry to split short this week.

We'll make it up to you next week.

We love you lots and we'll speak to you soon.

Bye-bye.

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What cars are better to look at than drive? | The Car Podcast #71

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