What makes the Porsche 911 so cool? Betim, Vinny and Scotto debate why the 911 is so special. VV010

What's up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Very Vehicular. I'm your host, Brian Scotto, and today we actually set out to answer a question that's right. We're gonna stay focused today, and the question is, are Porsches still cool? And does it even matter to discuss and debate this today? I've got my good buddy Vin Anatra, who just recently sold his 9 9 7 GT three Rs, and I also have Betim Berisha who runs BBI Auto Sport world renowned for building really fast nine elevens. So whether you love nine elevens, whether you hate nine elevens, whether you think the whole nine 11 thing is over, listen to the three of us wax poetic on why the cars mean something special to us and sort of why the hype came about and why we think the hype is really valid and, uh, disagree with us. 'cause that's the kind of stuff we want to hear. Enjoy the episode. What's up boys? Hey. Alright, so today we're gonna do something we've never done before on this podcast.

Keep it simple.

No, we're gonna keep it focused. We have a single topic. You guys both know what it is and the topic is Porsches are more than just cool. They're fucking great cars.

Yeah. I love it.

Yeah. And the conversation being that we are at probably, I don't know, are we at peak cool? Or maybe we passed peak. Cool. But it's now to the point where you're starting to hear people hate on Porsches because they're too cool, but like that's not what the cars are about.

Yeah. I mean, I personally think we might have crowned the peak Cool. Mm-hmm. For like out there, but that's not what's

important. But before we get there, 'cause I want to hear it. You had a pretty crazy day the other day.

Oh yeah.

You spun Project Evo at 130 miles an hour.

It was actually a little more than that I think.

Um,

yeah, it's a little story. Time to start.

So we're at Apex out in Arizona, in Mesa

also, by the way, before you get into it, for people who don't know, just briefly explain what Project Evo is.

Project Evo is a 9 9 3 based crazy maniac machine that we built. Jeff Sword actually drove it to Pikes Peak. We put it in some street live now and we're still continuing to test and gather data with it. So we're at the track. Um, it's a paddle shifted, 3.8 liter air cooled engine. So Sequential gear box, still air cooled.

Twin Turbo.

Yeah, twin. Big old set of Garretts on it. Um, and it's, I mean, it makes every bit of 840 horsepower. Uh, I was Dr.

What is it Way.

20, 2600. I'll just say 2600

800 horsepower. Have you been in it? 2,600 pounds? No,

it's scary fast.

Oh, you haven't? No. You, that was not, that

was when I was on the 700 tune.

Yeah, that was 6 35. 6

35,

yeah. Yeah. And that's, it's

even scarier now.

Yeah, because that's, the turbos are still asleep. Boy skates are just doing everything they can to keep boost down. But I was running at 1.2 bar, which is seven 40 all day. And that's, I think, the sweet spot. It's just the entire time. Anything below third gear is you're, you're just looking for grip. And TC is just,

you could literally hear the trash control crying. Like you could hear the clicking in the Bosch machine just going like, no, no, no, no

smoking, no. Sander did a good job on, on tc. So it's manageable, but it's just, you know, Sander's got a running joke now that every he, he's like, man, the data shows, there's like. It can make a whole shit load more power. Everything's just fine. And every time you ask the driver, do you want more power? They're like, ah, I don't think so. No, it's okay. It's okay.

When normally drivers like, I could always use more.

And then finally Sander went out and drove it and he goes, I get it now. Okay. Nope. Doesn't need more power. So it's, you know.

Yeah. 'cause even if you could get it to hook hookup, 'cause traction controls are so sophisticated now. Yeah. That amount of power to wait means once you're in fourth, fifth gear on track like you are. Fucking hauling.

Yeah. Fourth and fifth tcs back

off, and you're just getting all of the power. Yeah. Yeah. That's a tremendous amount of speed.

Yeah. It's been a brutal winner for most of the country. Fortunately for me, I live in California. It hit AB the other day. Perfect timing to bust out my new Vyper Industrial fan. That's right. These guys make great stools, amazing creepers and fantastic tool cards, but they also make really, really good fans. Assembly was simple. It comes with legs or can be wall-mounted. It moves an incredible amount of air. It's got a variable speed control, so you can dial in the perfect RPM for your fan. If that's something you so desire. If you're looking for soothing therapeutic white noise machine for the garage, try out the natural wind function. Anyway, go get [email protected]. That's Vyper with a Y. Be honest, we all do it. You fire up an incognito tab and you hit up the configurator page of your favorite automaker to build out that dream spec. You are never gonna buy. Good news. Heat Wave visual also offers an online customizer. Little bit easier on the pocketbook than a paint a sample GT three Rs. First you choose your frame style and then you pick out the colors, the lenses, do you want 'em polarized. And on top of that, they have over 40 different arm designs to choose from, even down to the emblem. Look, I'm not saying they don't have great off the shelf sunglasses, they do, but if you're like me and you've got that itch to mod everything, head on over to Heat Wave visual.com. 20 years back, I stumbled on this really unique tool. It'd be a disservice to call it simply a ratchet. It's got a self-adjusting head. You can use it like a screwdriver, but if you have a DHD like me, it also makes for a great fidget spinner. It's called the Zyklop, made by Wera Tools. If you haven't heard of them, they make premium tools that are highly over-engineered. Hardly surprising, they're German, but it's not just the quality and the engineering, it's the evolution. I mean, these guys actually reinvented the wrench. We connected after they saw me working on my Audi with their tools, and I'm stoked to welcome them as the newest partner on the pod. Once again, I only work with brands whose stuff I actually use, so check them out. Weratools.com and I apologize now. Because you're likely gonna empty your bank account there.

Yeah. Yeah.

So anyway, back to the regularly programmed, uh, off, yeah. 140 miles an hour backwards at thermal.

Uh, fourth, no, we're at Apex at, and there's, there's this big right hander complex, uh, that goes into, it's actually kind of cool. It tightens up at Apex and then it, and then it opens up into a break zone. So you can actually get through there, wo the car down a little bit, and then get back to throttle. Uh, ideally your fifth gear, you get a thing moved out down into fourth, and then you start squeezing throttle right off Apex. If the track wasn't there, you'd be smoked. But yeah. Anyways, I went into a re um, I had a good run out of two or three and into fifth gear, deep into fifth gear. I'm like, should I pull sixth? I'm like, nah. I started to turn in. I'm like, why? In my head, right when I started to turn, I was like, why do I think I can go through this corner like that? And, and it just, there was like literally, there was just like, that was it. And then Sanders's like, yeah, you went off track. A guy tried to. Uh, you know, you're kind of along for the ride there. But I did feel the car go backwards and then does, does the Porsche lawn dart thing. So I just kind of went left hand down to get it to keep going. And I was in, I was in the dirt, couldn't see anything still spinning. I was like, man, this has taking a long time to slow down. I was like, I, it felt like I was at the edge of like going over, you know? But then

yeah, which is always scary when

you're in

dirt. Yeah.

And then, so got iTWO down and then by the time the dirt saddled, I could finally get it back into neutral, in reverse. I'm looking around, I'm like, I, I don't even know where the track is. I was so far off the track because the track's up a little higher. I, I was like, okay, that's the barrier. I'm looking around and I'm like looking for somebody to drive to like get a point of reference and finally I saw this car go by. I'm like, okay, I gotta go back over that way.

And you were going so fast that the. That the arrow popped the rear hatch. Oh

yeah. So when I

went back and did it blow the rear window out too,

when I went, when I went backwards it, it ripped the deck lid, the engine lid open, and then that slammed into the rear glass and broke it out, and then de lambed the rear deck lid. So I was like, ah. I thought they, everybody thought I hit the wall. I'm like, no, I never hit the wall. But they're like the whole back.

You hit a wall of air.

I hit. Yeah, that was, yeah.

Yeah.

But anyways,

is that your fastest off

you

had?

Yeah.

Yeah. By, by a pretty significant margin.

Yeah. Did you tell the wife about it?

I undersold it a little.

Okay, cool.

Yeah.

Well, she doesn't listen to this podcast, right? No, she's

not gonna listen to

your

podcast, Brian.

So I shouldn't clip this and put this on Instagram. Leave this part

out. Probably we could leave that.

Okay. Yeah, sure. Got it.

But yeah,

so, so I, look, I wanna get into everyone's background here. 'cause you started with Mustangs, right?

Yeah, early on. Early on, uh, when I was 14.

Like Fox Body Mustang?

No, the early 60. The early stuff, yeah. Early stuff. Yeah. 67. And then alls I wanted to do was drag race and street race and, and then when I was in my early teens or late teens, I got a job at a car dealership that was, that had a lot of Porsches there and I just started building up this, like this affinity for nine elevens and it, you know, then I got to drive a nine 30 turbo once and I was just blown that was, that was game over.

I'm pretty sure Vinny and I's story is exactly the same, which is that we belong to the cult of Volkswagen. And Volkswagen told you that first you'll own a VW and then you'll own an Audi and then you'll own a Porsche. Good. But like that was just like the,

yeah, that was every,

the ownership progression, every

kid's progression. But I will say back in the day, I never drove a nine 11. Actually, I don't even remember. I think my first nine 11 I drove was my friend had a 9 6 4 and I didn't like it at all.

Mm.

He had a 9 6 4 C four

mm.

Um. That had like 120,000 miles on it, nothing special, mostly stock.

And you're kinda like, man,

not really that great of a car. It was cool to look at, but I was like, I never really cared that much about it. Mm-hmm. I always liked the water cooled cars from afar. Mm-hmm. I just thought they sounded cool. They looked cool, whatever. Mm-hmm. But never had any experience driving them. So I didn't really fall in love with nine elevens until I got to drive some.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Like some really nice setup ones.

Yeah. That I, I, I don't blame you. When I first drove a 9, 6 4 and a 9, 9 3, I was like, ah, I don't know. I dunno. And then I got to drive a boxer, like a 9, 8, 6 boxer base model. Yeah. I was like, ah, this is so much fun. Yeah. Yeah. And then actually was a lot of fun. So like the progression you guys are talking about. I had a mark 3G TI with a VR six in it.

Oh, no way. How did we just find this out today?

Oh, I knew, I

knew, yeah, it's why close. And I loved, loved, loved that car. And then I'm

trying to convince someone to build another one for T tr punks this year.

Yeah, they're probably gonna have to. And then

I just found a black who's found a 98 black 1 4500 bucks. Want it stay

focused. Okay. Yeah. And then I had a 9 44, bought a 9 44 for 800 bucks when I was like 18, 19. So I can go SEC air acing with it. And I love the 9 44. That's a slept on car except the engines break.

Yeah, you can finish my wife's if you'd like to. We'll talk about that. She doesn't listen to this pod either. I want to finish it and just surprise her with it.

Yeah, I mean that, I love those cars. They're good cars.

Vinny's like, I can't believe you're asking your friend to do that.

I love, I I love watching both of you guys. Anytime you suggest something, Vinny's. I've got news for you, Brian. That ain't gonna work.

You, you would think we hate each other, but don't

we Were

just talking

about, it's like we actually, you know, it's like the old expression of like, you know, you go any direction too far. Like you go far enough left, you want guns again. Yep. Right. It's like Vinny and I love each other so much. I think we hate each other. It's like, you guys are, it, it depends on where the pendulum's swinging at that time between you guys' relationship.

I think my thing with Brian is I just default to arguing with him so much so that sometimes I agree, but I find myself arguing just for, for club.

I'm not gonna give it to him. That's 'cause both of us combat is our love link. Like literally like, like fighting, arguing, conflict is what makes me feel loved and it's how I show love if I'm not disagreeing with you. I probably don't like you.

I love it. That's awesome.

Anyway, 9 44 is good cars, huh?

Awesome.

Great cars. So, but for me, um, I had never, I had never driven to nine 11 when I was younger and then I became a journalist. I got to drive with the water cooled ones, and I think it was like the first, I drove so many cars. Like, that's one really interesting thing about being a journalist is you get to drive a little bit of everything. So, and most people don't get to do that in their lives, right? Like they may, you know, they may own this, they may own that. You've obviously owned a ton of stuff, but you this, this cool thing to be like, Hey, I drove a vantage this week and then the next week I drove a Ferrari and then the week after that I drove a Lamborghini and then I drove a nine 11 and the nine elevens just felt. Different.

Mm.

And not as special, like to me, uh, nine 11 is a sports car. Doesn't matter if it's a GT three RS. Mm-hmm. It's a sports car. It's weird.

The only ones special feel like they're super cars. But before that, the nine 11 was king sports car.

It's just king sports car. It is like the quintessential sports car. But I, and I just, I loved how they drove. I loved how they drove on track. And then I got to drive in RS America just went into a test drive. And it's funny I mentioned Aston 'cause I drove an Aston Martin Vantage V eight to go test drive in Old RS America. Mm. So one, the vantage was way faster. Mm-hmm. Like just everything about it was nicer, but like, just going around a couple corners, I wasn't pushing it too hard 'cause it was a test drive for a car I wanted to buy. And by the way, the car was $20,000, 2009.

Ouch.

$20,000 Rs America. And it had a supercharger kit on it.

Insane.

Yeah. Which actually made it feel like slightly heavy. It wasn't as fast as a turbo.

Yeah.

But there was just this thing about the turning in it and. The, especially on the air cooled, I think like the glass house is something no one really talks about. Right. Or maybe it is like, maybe I'm not enough in the Porsche circles, but like nothing feels better than that cockpit. And that was just it. Like I got into all these other cars, I drove all these other cars and all of them were either, you know, could have been better in straight line performance could even better in cornering. But there was something about how it felt to sit in the nine 11 and how it all looked.

And they've kept that throughout all the generations. Right. I made a video where we did like base 9, 9, 7 all the way up to GT three RS and like how they all compare and stuff. And the thing I said when I drove Alex's C two s was you get in a nine 11 and it feels incredibly unique. Like you look out the steering wheel, the dash is the perfect small size, and then you see just the tops of the two fenders and like the leading edge of the headlight. And it's such a unique nine 11 only feeling. Mm-hmm. And they did a great job at like keeping the cabins small as the cars got even little bigger. Like they feel really intimate. So I think driving a nine 11 feels like. Majorly special. Just from like a ergonomic standpoint.

I, yeah, I agree completely. Um, you no matter what nine 11 you get into, whether it is an RSA or even a new GT, three Rs, you know, you're driving a nine 11.

Yeah. And,

um, granted they're very different. Yeah. But you know that I'm in a nine 11.

Well, that's the thing I always found interesting. 'cause like, I love 9, 9, 7, it's like my favorite car in the world. I boast about this constantly on paper. Most nine elevens, like they're not that special. Like when you're like, oh, it's 3,100 pounds, it makes 400 horsepower, it's a six speed. Like it all sounds fine, but a lot of cars fit those stats. But then you drive a well set up one and you're like, I can't. Quantify what it is, but it's the best car ever. Yeah. Like I told everyone, I was like, drive a 9, 9, 7 GT three and tell me there's a better car. Right? Like, I can't find one.

Mm. I mean, I, I think, you know, you have this, like Jeff Swer agrees that the GT three Rs is one of the greatest, like 9, 9, 7 GT three s is one of the greatest cars.

And by the numbers, it's not that impressive.

But it just takes all of that And does it real, it, it does it really well. Like, like you said, nothing stands out from the stats, but when you bring it all together, Porsche did such a good job on extracting the most out of all those new, not nuances, but those, I would say subtle. Yeah. Subtle stats.

Yeah.

So I've never driven newer than a 9, 9, 7. Like at anger, like I've, I've driven

like, oh, they only get better, like a little bit more numb and, yeah. Right. Assisted, but Mm. Right. They just get better. Like it's insane how good they are

because I was a journalist when the 9, 9 7 was out. So I've like driven those on track and like, that's just a car that just felt great. Like it was just, I mean, I, and I, the newer ones seem really big to me and I've driven them like around town or like been in them, but like

they're big.

Right.

They just seem big. Yeah. But the 9, 9 7 feels like, it's like the right evolution from this, which was a nine six.

Well, I'll add my 2 cents of a normal guy. And then, but Tim could talk as an expert and like a race car driver. Yeah. Yeah. But 9, 9, 7 drives like an old air cooled car and that it's hard to drive on track. I had to ask Jeff Swart like how to drive this frigging thing because like it's, it's so difficult. You have to drive it like a nine 11 lot heavy on the brakes. Lots of trail breaking, like patience on the throttle, very stabby when you're ready for it. Mm-hmm. Like it's a certain way, whereas the 9 9 1 and then the 9 9 2 rss, holy shit. Like. They're just so much easier to be incredibly fast in. And I'm sure the threshold is higher than my driving ability, but like a 9, 9 2 Rs, I don't even know if it drives like a rear engine car. It just feels like you do whatever the fuck you want

a hundred percent as a company, that company has to evolve, has to show you laptop, have to show evolution of performance right. Across the technologies that they're applying to the car. It'd suck to build something and then all of a sudden it's slower. Right?

Right.

Yeah. And so they can't, but with, when they do that, they have to take all of our skill sets, everybody's, and they gotta say, well, how do we make everybody quick? You're not a pro driver. I'm not a pro driver. You're you, you know, maybe that guy is. So you start to get into this world of numbness and I think there's a point where I don't give a shit about my lap time. I, unless you're competing, I care about the driving experience. Yeah. I don't, you know, like, to, to your point, my favorite track driving car outta the box is a.one GD three s.

Mm.

It's not the dot two, the dot two is, is quite a bit better, but I don't know why I felt so connected in the.one

9 9 7

9 9 7 0.1. I could throw that thing around and just drive it like a complete extension of me. Maybe that's just a product of my time, my generation spending the most time in 9, 9, 9 7.

Because that's what the gen when you were working at Porsche Motorsport,

right? Yeah. Well we were, I was in the transitional period from 9 9 6 to 9 9 7 there. Yeah. Um, and then, you know, you, I next to a G Body car that's well sorted. I don't think there's a more fun, fun nine 11 to drive right. Than the 9 9 7, like, to your point. But then you get into, I had a 9 9 2 career SI had a 9 92 GD three and a GT three rss. The Carrera S was so easy to, to crush lap times with. It was unreal Bone stock. Alls we did is Oh wow. A little bit of an alignment to it.

Talking about a car no one talks about.

We were out at Willow doing like sub. Sub thirties, like one 20 nines, 28, which

is really fast

all day long with my son's child seat in the back. And I just passed. I just had every, all my employees drove, everybody drove it and then just drove it home with smoked tires. That's incredible. Everything was perfect. Then my wife drives us to work, you know, so, but it was like, it was numb. I didn't have that, like, oh, I'm in front of this thing. I'm, you know, that was like, it didn't reward you for a saw at the wheel, didn't reward you for rotating it on the way in, and then getting back to Apex on Throttle, highway nine 11, takes a seat and does it, it rewarded. Rewarded you for hitting the brakes. Nice and smooth. Turning in, looking at your apex, and as the car starts to unwind, you just squeeze the throttle a little bit and you cruise across and then, you know, you're, you're piecing together a lap like that. Yeah, and that's to me, great. Awesome. Well engineered. I like my personal driving style. I like to work a wheel. I like to throw a car in.

Yeah.

I like to feel the edge.

You know what's kind of crazy? I just had this thought because it makes sense, like you said, that cars get almost too technologically advanced and you want feeling, and OEMs are never gonna go back to making cars that are more analog. Like we could only keep going forward. I think speed and, you know, horsepower and stuff eventually will plateau maybe. I don't know. But it's crazy that like the Evo project is what you want to do to get back at that. There you go. And the the price you're gonna have to pay to get an analog experience new now is going to be. These, uh, independent, you know, what do you call it? Like, uh, coach builders. Coach builders, yeah. Who are making cars like the Evo or like Gunther Works singer. Mm-hmm. Like these, and I don't know, there's probably other ones outside of the Porsche world, like the Pat Hills like roof. Yeah. But like, you're gonna have to pay such an exorbitant amount of money if you want that experience

in a car that has newish

tech. Yeah. But I think it's really cool because it has a zero mile type

car. We've reached this point where like new cars are, are so crazy. I mean, we were just talking about the Lamborghini, um, uh. What the hell's that new one? Alto.

Oh yeah.

And like it's so fast and it's got a V 12 and it's hybrid

isn't running like low nines outta the box

or something like Yeah. But like, you feel nothing.

Yeah. That

you drive this thing in anger and you're just like, you feel nothing. That, so now guys like yourself who have the technical ability and the the resources to do something are like, I'm gonna take some action at this. I'm gonna make a car for the people who want this, like, actual feeling of connectivity to a car with like, not no expense spared, but like no compromises,

right? So it. Exactly. And that's, you take everything that you've loved about all of the car, like, like you, to your, both of your points you guys have are very lucky that you've been able to drive a lot of different cars. Mm-hmm. I'm also very lucky I've been able to drive, I mean, every, every car we've ever built really in the last 1920 years of PBI, all our hill climb cars, anything that rolled off the line new, uh, you know, I got to drive a new 9, 9, 7, new nine. Yeah. Every time they were new, I got to be a part of this. So, you know, stacking all that in my head and just watching the driving experience go away and the velocity and speeds going up and the fun diagram of where, where fun and, and the

Venn diagram starts to spread

out out. It does it, all of a sudden, all of a sudden they're getting pulled apart and you're like, fuck, how do we re, am I allowed to say that? Sorry.

You can say the

fuck if you want. Okay. Um, how do we, how do we get back to create an experience but still having something that's speed and engaging? Right. So my,

yeah, I think like at the core of it, we all probably have the same criteria, which is like, I want a race car. But I want it to be street legal and kind of comfortable. Like everyone wants the same shit.

You want, you have to flex duality. Yeah. And that's one thing that technology does do though, is we, you have versatility, duality, and

variabilities.

Right.

I actually think one of the big problems that's going on right now in like the modern automaker world is speed is relative. When you're on the plane, you don't realize you're doing 550 miles an hour. Right? Right. 'cause you're, you're not, you're not experiencing it. This nine 11, which is a, you know, 19 91, 9 6 4 feels fast at 80. Mm-hmm. I mean, it'll do one 50, I've done it, but like at one 50 it's terrifying level of speed. You don't

wanna do it.

But my. You know, my old Audi a l, I've also taken to one 50 and Tony Harmer was sleeping in the passenger seat in it and didn't wake up.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Like modern cars have actually removed so much of the noise, vibration and all of that, that you remove that sense of speed. So you actually have to increase the speed. So in order, so like you're actually adding speed, which is actually like arguably also adding danger to something just to feel what you were feeling before. Oh yeah. It's like sex with or without a condom, right? Like you know's, like, I dunno, it's like that, that element of like you are. You're creating this barrier that you don't feel the speed. It's why carting feels so fast. I think you drove it. Feel

that it, but you don't, I don't know if you did the new Lotus, uh,

yeah,

the Amira, was it

Amira?

The Amira was so bizarre because they made it fairly analog and that it had hydraulic steering and like a cable shifter that fell pretty good. But they deleted all the NVH out of it otherwise. Yeah. So you had this car that had pretty good steering, feel good shifter feel. I thought it had

great steering

feel. It

felt really good, but

the chassis was way too smooth. Mm-hmm. So you almost felt like you had these two like inputs that were like. Analog and then the rest was like silk. And I found it to be very jarring. It almost felt almost like

a simulator.

Yeah. It was very ing. Yeah, I was say get

that. Yeah. Like some pieces of it felt right.

Yeah. I was like, damn, you need like a couple spherical joints and uh, and like solid motor mounts to make this thing give you a little bit of grit. Like you need just a little grit in this thing. Add

some delrin in here. Yeah. I wanna lose a filling. Right.

Not that bad, but like certain cars like to be visceral, need a little bit of like that

and it doesn't always have to, uh, equate to all out speed. You can create an experience,

right. No, and that's what I think we've created is we've made cars actually so fast that I think it's going to, and this is a whole other conversation, but I think cars have become so fast now that we're gonna see speed cameras and stuff like this in America because. It used to be that the average person didn't break a hundred miles an hour.

Yeah. Now it's so easy.

Now it's like everybody does, right? Because you can buy a, a Hellcat, you can buy all these things that just make phenomenal power.

Yeah. And

it's so easy to go

that fast. But I mean, you could see it. Just to bring us back to nine elevens and Porsches is um, new ZR one verse new GT three RS. There you

go. Yeah.

Lap times are, you know, all things considered pretty close considering the ZR one delta, the Delta power over two times the amount of horsepower. Mm-hmm. But the nine 11 stayed true or truer to its roots and was like, we're gonna optimize everything at 500 horsepower. And that's why I still like the 9 9 2 GT three RS. Mm-hmm. Because it's like you still get a 9,000 RPM four liter, you know, flat six. Whereas I drove the ZR one and it's a blast, but it's honestly too fast.

Yeah.

Like no one needs that much power. Like on the racetrack, I've driven. Didn't

you say it actually made you nauseous?

I was gonna say, I've driven countless cars on track. I've driven race cars, I've driven production cars. The ZR one made me wanna throw up

while driving. Not in the passenger seat,

no driving.

Oh, geez,

dude. Going at Coda on the back, straight 180. Two miles an hour to 60, back up to one 20. Four seconds, you know, you're just,

yeah.

On those carbon ceramics super hard and you're like so many Gs breaking and then tons of lateral Gs turning and then the torque out of the corner. 'cause there's a pretty str fast straight section after that is like, you're just, dude, it's insane. And I was like, this is factory. It's a bone stop outta the

box.

Had a three point seatbelt on.

Yeah. Geez. You're going one, I was

just looking at this

180

lap

after lap after lap, which is like something I think about now that I'm older. Like the amount of ridiculous shit I did in press cars on track with like no helmet and a seatbelt because they were like helmet, oh, you don't have to wear a helmet. Helmet they

made for

helmet. I drove the new M five in whatever, 2008, 2009 at Road America. Like flat out, flat out like no helmet going into that, like down like the downhill section. And at one point I was like, this doesn't end well if it ends. Yeah.

Yeah. That's gonna be bad no matter

what. Yeah. But it was just like normal, like yeah, you sign the paperwork. Okay. Yeah. I, I wanna rewind this though, because. I'll get back to our original point and discuss that. So all of us, at some point, we either liked Porsche's bef, or as an early age it was something that we were, we were bred into or whatever it is. And now we are at like this really kind of crazy peak like Porsche moment, right? And the other day, this is, I think one of the things that kind of initiate this conversation is that James Humphrey was like, he made the announcement that nine elevens are officially no longer cool. Mm-hmm. Something like that. Right? And I, but

my, my argument was that James, like, there's a lot of different types of car people, right? Everyone likes cars for different reasons. And James is definitely more of the cars are an accessory to your personality,

right?

Like, you get a car, they're,

they're fashion el

it's a fashion element and you enjoy other pieces of it, of course. But if you like, if you just like a car to be an accessory. Yeah. Nine elevens are sort of played. 'cause it's like for this, for 80,000 bucks to buy a G body to, you know, to look cool. You could buy a E 28 5 series, you could buy a one 90 E, you could buy a 500 e, you can buy countless other really cool vintage cars to look interesting. Right. But once you get into the driving dynamics saying it's not cool, it's blasphemy. Yeah, it's, that's insane.

It's

pretty

wild. Well this is like, we, we had this conversation the other day 'cause I jumped on one of, uh, Vinny's episodes to talk about the Ferrari 360 and I said the difference between the two is that the nine 11 is a driver's car and the Ferrari is an enthusiast car because like the nine 11, like you really have to enjoy driving a car to love. Like it, it's what makes you really love it, where like the Ferrari just makes all the right noises and the right smells and

you wanna hear the worst dis to the 360.

Yeah.

Um, so I try to like categorize cars that I want for like, I think cars need their purpose and I don't wanna like double down on cars 'cause I don't have enough space or mental capacity. And like I feel

personally attacked

or whatever. I know, but that

was right at

you. So like 9 9 7 GT three is like canyon car or like track car, Ferrari. 360 cars and coffee car. Because going to cars and coffee around in LA means you're driving on some boring ass straight highway and then you're gonna sit at a million red lights and then you're just gonna show up somewhere and park. Mm-hmm. Ferrari 360. Mm-hmm Car is super comfortable. It's super easy to drive. It's like it's great. People think it's cool, whereas like you go to the mountains or you go to the track, I wanna take the Porsche.

Mm-hmm

a hundred percent. Like I think it's a way different car, you know, where it's like, I don't think nine elevens are that impressive to show up to cars and coffee and stuff. Like you're not like oohing and on over 'em. But I think that when you're going for the driving experience, nine eleven's way more fun than the 360. Yeah. Would you not agree even like 9, 6, 4 to.

Oh, 100%.

Yeah.

Like the 9 6 4 is just such a more fun car to drive. I mean also like mine's manual and like, I think it, I, I actually like the noises that the nine 11 makes more than my Ferrari personally, but I know that the noises, the Ferrari maker more exotic.

Yeah.

Does that make sense? It's

like more unique in a

way. Yeah. Like it's also something I never had ever seen myself driving.

Same.

So like a lot of times I'll be listening to the 360 and I'm like, I'm making the car I driving. Yeah, yeah. Is making that noise. I know the feeling. Well, you know, but Tim built the exhaust on my nine 11, so it sounds like a fucking race car. Yeah. Like it's just obnoxious. Like every, you needed to

match the look.

Yeah. It has to look, match the look. And it's like, so it's a different kind of sound. It's more of a like, it's a real fucking, that's a pissed off noise.

That's actually one of my slight tangent. But back onto Porsche is one of my biggest gripes. With rwb is like, I love this generation RWB, I'm not really a fan of a lot of the new stuff. Um, you build a car that looks like this, it's gotta have some bite. Mm-hmm. But like, you see people building a car that's like seven inches wider than this and it has like scoops on the bolt on rear fenders and like a huge wing. And then you're like, oh, what is it? Like, oh, it's a three liter sc. You're like, oh, so that makes 142 wheel horsepower.

Yeah.

Like, but you have a 18 by 45 inch rear wheel with a 400 inch tread.

You look like you built like a, an endurance car out of it, you know, out of a war movie. It's like, yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And that was, I mean, my, for me and for, um, I would say, I would say a lot of other shops out there that have some racing background breaks your heart when you see that. Mm-hmm. Like, well, the whole point of a bigger wheel. Going from like sixteens to eighteens, just put more brake under it. The whole point of a wider wheel is to fit more tire on it. So you gotta cover it with some fenders so you can go quicker. So you have, you know, better contact patch and so on. Yeah. So you gotta fix the geometry, but when you're just shitting all over your scrub radius on the front, like, and you got, you got no uh, no, no stank out back. It's, it's kind of, it's a hard pill to swallow. So then they, then you're moving. You're moving. So there's kind of a good point. You're moving from the driver to the enthusiast, which is nothing wrong with everybody. Look, I like all forms of the automotive world. Yeah. It just depends on what you think is cool. So you guys were saying earlier

what. Well, I think, I think I wanna get back to this point. Yeah. Because I think we, we just we're such Porsche files, we immediately just jumped into just slobbing the Porsche knob. Mm-hmm. Just talking about how fucking great they are. And, but like, I'm also like, I don't consider myself a Porsche guy. Are you a p You're like, you might be a Porsche guy now.

Uh, I would say that I'm, I'm a fucking loser. Uh, for sure. So like, I, dude, like I'm on like Ren list. I'm on the forums. He is

more of a Porsche guy than I am.

I like, I like, yeah, I'm a fucking Porsche guy for sure,

because I obviously, my favorite, my favorite car I own is a Porsche. If I had to sell all my cars, but one, even though it would be the least, make the least practical sense, I would keep my nine 11. My nine 11 is like, it's just the most important car I own to me.

Yeah.

I should drive it more. That's a whole other conversation. Yeah. But I really love this car, like, and I've known it. You know, forever now, right? Yeah. Just go had it for decade plus and Oh, shit, even more than that. Um, and I just, I absolutely love the car. I love driving it, but like, I don't, I don't know, like I, I don't know if I'd, I would buy another nine 11. Maybe I buy a 9, 9, 7. But like, I don't, I'm not like here to collect a ton of them. Like, one of them works really well for

me.

Like where I think like a lot of people now are like, oh, I'm collecting nine 11. So I'm like, that isn't must be nice.

Yeah, I shop cars a lot 'cause like it's my autism. I love looking for cars. Especially now that I could buy and sell cars more. Um, always looking at nine elevens. Nine 11 is my most searched car. 'cause I will buy, like, I want a fucking cool air cooled 9 6 4. I want a 9, 9 6 turbo. I want another nine. Nine seven GT three RS. I want a 9, 9 1 Rs. I want a fucking nine. Nine, seven turbo. I want. You know, 9, 9 3 turbo, like they're all so fucking cool. Like so many of 'em are sick.

It might be because of when I got into, but when I was searching them, like a 9, 6 4 was a 10 to $15,000 car, right? Yeah. It was a turbo. Uh, a 9, 9 3 was a $40,000 car. Mm-hmm. Like those all, like, now when I look at them, the price is so crazy that I couldn't bring myself to like buy another.

Yeah. I guess for me though, because we're so different, like, you buy a car and you spend a hundred thousand dollars, you're never getting that a hundred thousand dollars back. Right? 'cause you're keeping the car forever. Right. For me, I'm like, I'll buy it 9, 9, 3, whatever. 'cause I'll drive it for six months and I'll sell it and like,

make a couple.

It all comes back. They're all worth what they're worth now. Right. It's not like you're gonna buy a 9, 9 3 for, you know, 75 grand and then three months from now it's worth like 40.

Right.

You know, like they're, they're just worth what they're worth. So,

but still, fundamentally

at 9, 6 4 to me is still. A 25, 30,000 car. Totally. Like when, you know what I mean? No. Well, I mean, Vinny had this great line about E 30 sixes and he said an E 36 is like a $6,000 experience.

Mm-hmm. That was Matt Fara, but I supported a hundred percent.

Oh, Matt Farris. Okay. Yeah. I always thought it was this, but whatever. I

know, me too. Maybe I said it then Matt stole it.

Yeah. Whatever it is. But I, I think that that is a very true moment where it's like E 36 M threes could be worth 25 grand, but it's a six to $7,000 experience. Mm-hmm. I would say this car to me is a $50,000 experience.

No. That I, I've never driven this car.

Maybe you've driven it. Oh yeah. I love maybe. Okay. Maybe it's a 75,000

experience. No, would say in current market, like

not in current market,

no. Just like the, but just like in general. Yeah. With what else you could get. What else are you gonna get for the savior experience? Okay.

Okay.

It's a six-figure experience. It's fast, it's fun, it's raw. It sounds cool. Like is

it a $300,000

experience? No, but I don't know what is, I had the same problem my GT three. And that's why

you sold your GT three RSI. '

cause I don't know what a, to me, a $300,000 experience is. Like an ex, like an exotic car. Right. It's a hyper car.

Right.

You know, like some people were like, oh, like you're so dumb. You sold your car. Yeah, yeah. Whether it's 300 K or $3 million, I feel like it's the same shit. It's like such an exorbitant amount of money for an experience. So I, I feel the same way, but I just am more privy to the current car market.

No, and I, I get that. 'cause like I'm kind of stuck in like where I spent money for it.

Yeah.

And I think you and I have talked about this before, but it. The car, the experience that the car gives me is less, the more the car is worth.

Totally.

One, because you just in your head that this is worth a crazy amount of money, but also the maintenance or if something was to happen to it, the replacement cost is

just not. Yeah. And it's all, it's all like that I think is super sub subjective. It's like that's your tax bracket. 'cause like there are guys and we're girls who are gonna buy an EVO for, I don't even know how much it costs. You could say it.

Many monies.

All the monies

and won't think twice about it. I know. And he'll park it next to other cars that are so millions of dollars. Yeah. So like one of my friends just text me, he just bought a Carra gt and he's like literally ripping it around on the street, drifting it everywhere. He just put like 400 miles on it yesterday. That's awesome. Like doesn't care. Right. But like. He might be a lot more well off than we are to be worried about

it. You drove the car at gt, right? Mm-hmm. What'd you think of it?

Oh, it's awesome.

Yeah. It really truly is.

It's awesome. I don't like the clutch situation, but it's awesome.

Yeah. Yeah. For me, I, it's interesting because I, I don't look at this car as an investment. I always say like, I'm, I don't plan on selling it. So the raised value is actually just more of a nuisance. It just makes me worry about it more. And like, I, I don't wanna be one of those people who's like, and I'm mad at all the people who made Porsches cool for making them ridiculously expensive, but I do think that they are cost more than the experience is worth.

Mm-hmm.

Like, we've reached that point where they are more valuable than what the experience you get out of

it. See, I'll, I'll counter argue that though, because I think, like you drive, we talked about like a stock 9, 6 4. Mm-hmm. Or like a, you know, you drive a. A DSC bone stock, I think it's horrifically boring. Like I can't stand them. But if you're buying that car for a piece of the lifestyle, uh, entrance into the community, the way it looks mm-hmm. Whatever, whatever, whatever, is it not worth it?

Do you really think, I, I wanna go back to your initial statement here. Do you really think a stock nine 11 is boring?

Horrible.

I know.

I, I

think, I still think I, I mean, I've driven like stock C 2 9 9 7 at the C two launch. Oh.

But I drove, I drove Alex's stock. It was

still really fun.

Stock 9, 9 7 was great. I'm talking like air cooled stuff I think needs some spice. I think it needs some spice.

Yeah. The older ones are a bit, a bit slow.

Yeah.

But not only that, the suspension's numb. It's very like they have 'em Right. Us ride heights and Yeah. It's there. There's so much you can do for so little to improve that experience. Just in initial turn in. Yeah. And, and the way the car feels, just. They immediately need coil overs and probably sway bars back then, and then, then you start to have something fun. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, you're talking like sevens and eights inch wide wheels on the, you know, it's

my sc I kept a bone stock motor, had 400,000 miles on it. We, I brought it to BBI, we did, uh, all the elephant racing stuff.

Yep.

Um, we did kw coilovers, some bigger brakes, bigger, uh, 16 inch wheels with, uh, I think 2 0 5 and two fifteens or something like that. Mm-hmm. And did like a sick corner balance and stuff. That car ripped so much fun. Fun. The transmission in that car kind of sucked, but, um, but it was, it was a blast. And they probably made 150 wheel horsepower.

Yeah. My, my st is one of my favorite cars to drive in the engine stock.

Yeah.

And it's, I mean, the car's, it's just fun because it's small. You can get in, you can get that engagement feeling without going too crazy. Yeah. You know, and it's, it's just so you feel a lot more planted and connect like your asses this high from this. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

And like segwaying into. I know we're, we gotta get into this a little bit, but the relative comment, our Porsche's still cool. I mean, I, I personally think that after the cars started getting pks, I think that in that brought the accessibility of a nine 11 up to a point where

Oh, interesting.

Yeah. Where. You know, people who had Audi Rhs, BMWM threes, m fives, it, it, it, it allowed an accessibility to what was called the widow maker or you know, like the ass happy h pattern, harder to extract that lap time out of a car. 'cause like, you know, to Yeah. For, and I think that drove, uh, and I, I saw my business, I saw it in the clientele that we were getting. I saw it in other shops popping outta nowhere that used to work on all the other cars. And then their buddy went and bought a 9, 9 1 GD three. Mm-hmm. Rear steer. PDKA big, big car on 21 inch wheels. Yeah. You know, so all of a sudden this car became accessible to you can go to the track and still be a hero out there, whereas. You take your Rs and you actually have to huff that thing to get a time out of it. Yeah. Right. And not a lot of people like that.

The first day I had this, I spun it at a hundred miles an hour on Woodhaven Boulevard in Queens. It almost killed me and Ron,

because you probably sent it like I thought it was a normal car

I sent and I was a journalist at the time. I had driven a bunch of stuff. I had driven nine, nine sevens. I'd driven nine, nine sixes. But this was still widow maker level. Yeah. And the car spun in a straight line.

Yeah.

Like

you probably probably hit a bump under boost and it's

like Exactly. And I, and I lifted off and the weight transfer and the thing came around and I was going backwards through an intersection. I was all, I may or may not have also been on like. Like blue pilot sports that were like, that had been um, that had been uh, shaved and were like track tires. I took off my friend's dad's car that hadn't been on a car in 10 years. That may have had a little bit to Yeah, that could it. Yeah, that could do it. But like everything I could do to get the car straight wasn't happening. Yeah. And it was wildly outta control and it made me both fear the car and also loved the car.

But I do a lot of research before I do stuff. And when I was gonna take my 9, 9, 7 to the track, it was the first time I ever had tracked a Porsche, I think. But definitely a 9, 9, 7. I remember I hit up a Tim for like pointers 'cause people online made it sound like this car was gonna be deadly.

Yeah.

Whereas the newer cars, I think. Like, but Tim said you're a little, like you've removed that barrier. And I always kind of find it funny when you have, um, McLaren's at your shop.

Mm-hmm.

Because I'm like, what the hell is this doing here? And then I kind of realized that 9 9 1 9 9 2 GT buyers mm-hmm. Are probably cross shopping those and like six 70 lts and shit. Right. Like it's the same person at this point.

It is. And that, that's, yeah. And you know, even down to how people ma their cars between, uh, post 9, 9 7 into 9 9 1 9 9 2, um, the cars have just gotten so quick and the drivers. Haven't been able to keep up with that and the, you know what I mean is they haven't been able to extract what just the factory is gonna give you. Right? Yeah. Where they can come back and give constructive feedback like, well look, I, you know, I've got, I've got some mid corner exit over steer, you know, normally like on a 9, 9, 7, we're like, all right, cool. We'll do the diff, we'll do this. I would say

95% of Porsche owners couldn't actually define what mid exit corner over steer is like. I think like that's part of like mid corner exit. Exit over steer. I think that's actually part of the issue too.

Well, I mean that probably is, and then so, you know, I also wanted to ask your guys' opinion. When did you think or were, was there some catalyst in. Going and buying a nine 11 to join the buddy club or you know, like the, the separation from enthusiasts and driver where you saw the enthusiast crowd growing a lot more than the driver's car.

Oh, I can tell you. 'cause I was there when it happened. So I bought my nine 11 because I, when I, I always wanted one. Um, I never thought I'd own more than a 9 44.

Mm-hmm.

Like, so my heart was set on a 9 44. The prices then sort of tumbled on the nine 11 market. I was looking at three 50 fives 'cause they had hit like 40 to 50 grand. And I was like, wow, that's really cool. And then I stumbled on nine 11. I was like, I cannot believe this is this cheap. Like you're talking 10 to 20 grand. This is crazy. I'm gonna go buy a nine 11 right now. This is such a, you know, it such a great car. And when I bought that, um, you know, I bought this thing for whatever 30 and change, um, and. Which was expensive at the time, it felt like, but none of my friends had nine elevens. No one thought they were cool. The joke always is, is why didn't you buy an evo? Mm-hmm. Like, those were way mm-hmm. Those were way cooler. So like, and when I bought mine, there wasn't a community of nine 11 guys that like I wanted to be a part of. Mm-hmm. It was like PCA, like going to Lime Rock and going to autocross, and they would've been annoyed with me for whatever. 'cause I had the 4.0 wing on the car and shouldn't have mm-hmm. Or whatever it was. Right. So, um, and then all of a sudden I, I think you had like this perfect storm of three things that happened at once. Here we are with another story time interruption, brought to you by my good friends at FCP Euro. Look, if you are a frequent listener of very vehicular, you know that I have been threatening to call the herd sell cars. That's what I've been threatening to do. Couple days ago, I decided, you know what? I'm gonna make the first step. And the first step is posting. Feeler post, see who's interested. And to my dismay, a lot of people were interested. The car in question is my 1991 Audi 200 Avant 20 Valve turbo. The problem is it just doesn't fit what I want right now. I got a couple other wagons, I think I wanna swap this out for something else. I figured put it up on the chopping block over the weekend. I decided it was time to clean it up. Take those photos. Try to actually move it and sell it. Unfortunately, I fell back in love. How could I possibly get rid of it? So I deleted the post and immediately went to fcp euro.com and just started filling the cart with a bunch of things. 'cause see, for me, if I have a lot of parts to finish a car, it makes it a lot harder to sell, right? I mean, this, this makes sense. So I started getting all the basics and the first thing is suspension bushings. This immediately makes a car better. It had a squeaky belt. I replaced that. I needed a clutch master. Pick that up and a few other things. And of course, a whole bevy of liqui moly, fluids, you know, 'cause it makes the car feel happier. So anyway, I did all that and, uh, I guess the car's not for sale anymore. If you two are looking for an excuse not to sell a car, head over to fcp euro.com, invest in some more parts and get that project of yours back on the road and off of the classified posts. Keep it off a marketplace, guys. Stop selling cars unless you're selling them to me. And then all of a sudden, I, I think you had like this perfect storm of three things that happened at once. Magnus Walker.

Mm-hmm.

Nikon, RWB. Mm-hmm.

And singer.

There you go. I, I

agree. These three things came out the same time. Mm-hmm. Like, I remember when Singer came out, I was at the magazine still, and we were just blown away that anyone would put that much effort into an air cooled car. Right. And they

let alone a 9, 6 4.

Yeah. And it was, yeah. Right. Because the nine six,

that was, that was like the black sheep.

Right. It was the black cared about it. It was the, it was the perfect car for a project like that. If you could rub a magic ball look downstream a little bit, but

yeah. Yeah. It wasn't the 9 9 3, which was the last of the air cooled, and it wasn't the, you know, it wasn't the G body. It, it lived in a weird world. It wasn't a long nose, right. Mm-hmm. Like no one seemed to care about them, and then they built this car. Especially the first one I thought was, was beautiful and there was just a bunch of really cool stuff and the press went crazy for it. And now all of a sudden you had magazines, which still mattered at the time. Waxing poetic, about nine 11 air cooled again, nobody had been talked about 'em for a while. 'cause we had already, we were well into the 9, 9 7 at this point. Mm-hmm. Like the 9, 9 6 was there. We had the 9, 9 7. Mm-hmm. Porsche, in my opinion, was losing all of its steam. You had this era where it's like they cared more about the Cayenne and the Panama than they did about their sports cars. That was obviously what, you know, I know the economics of it. I know those saved the company, so on and so on.

That's, that's what birth a four gt.

Of course. I mean,

sorry, the career gt

the gt. Right. Like all of these things, like all that stuff came out totally understand the value of it, but the brand was losing kind of the concept. And I don't, I don't wanna tangent too much. I think this is a really important

story. Well I think, I think it was that and then the, the final. Fucking boss of Porsche Coolness, loof cult.

No, but, but let me get on the first three. 'cause I, I was there. So the first one really was singer and that got magazines to be talking about it again.

Mm-hmm.

Now air Cool is like back in front of people again. Right. Then you have Magnus Walker who. Just, it was like a completely different approach. He changed

the optics of

nine. Absolutely. He changed the stigma of, you know, here you are dread and,

and also punk rock. And, and also it was also like a Volkswagen aesthetic applied to nine 11. It's like mismatched panels, like, you know, just this aesthetic that didn't, I mean, likes

in the back Fs in the front.

Right. And it wasn't the dentist nine 11. Mm-hmm. Like that was what nine elevens were. They were like, I mean, they were so uncool. They were tragically Unhip. Mm-hmm. So tragically Unhip that Porsche would not give zero to 60 magazine a nine 11 for a test drive because they told us that our audience couldn't afford them.

Hmm.

So I wrote them this letter and I wrote them this letter, and I basically took PORs of America and I said, look, they said, oh, you can drive a boxer, you can drive a Cayman, you know, and I said, no, no, no. We wanna drive the new nine 11, like the 9, 9 7. Like, that's what we want to go drive right now. And they're like, no, you know, that's just, it's just not where your audience is. And I was like, look. I want a nine 11. I will one day own a nine 11 because as a kid, that was a car that was important to me. My cousin, who is more than 10 years younger than me, wants a GTR because he grew up playing grand. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And no one played with the roof cars. Like, you guys have forgotten your audience. You have forgotten course

when it even

licensed you forgotten, of course

in the, the early

course.

That's crazy. I forgot about that. You could, you

and they wouldn't let us Jalopnik auto blog, like all of the young media was prohibited from driving the, but look at the

generations now. We were those kids

I know

playing with the roof, you know,

but they were, they were this close to, I think never, I think to the nine 11 falling away. I think they were this close and they, it was none of their own decisions that saved Porsche in, in the element of it being cool because in my, in my feelings from just like the culture of Porsche Singer. One brought a premium audience in a big money spender, supercar audience got, got the journalist. Yeah. And started comparing it to Ferrari's again.

Yeah.

Right. Because shit man, we were doing nine 11 verse GTR nine 11 verse three 70 z comparison because that's where the car had fallen into in terms of what people were expecting outta Right. And then Magnus kind of makes this whatever cool thing. And then I don't care what you think about R wb if you weren't there in 2000, you know nine. Mm-hmm. When that first started showing up on Awa Taku and everything, Nikai made nine 11 Cool. To a, to a market of people who would've never even considered a, that was me for sure. I, I the JDM market. Mm-hmm. The Super Street kids, they all of a sudden thought these were cool and added like a cool style to it. And I think that made the air cooled cars. Boom. And then that obviously spun off all these other things, right? And we dump their works and everyone else who went on and a bunch of cool people bought the cars. And that continued to kind of expand it and grow it. And there's more and more people talking about it. And you can talk about the negatives and bad of that. And then I feel like one day Porsche woke up and they caught on and now all of a sudden they understand spec, they understand making a bunch of cool variants. They understand things like the nine 11 R, like they got in and they were like, oh, we get it. These people want these cars to be special, they want to make cool

stuff. But it was, it wasn't until the aftermarket. And individuals went out and ironed that all out for them. It wasn't until the enthusiast said, Hey, we're gonna build a culture around this. Maybe not. Maybe unwillingly or not knowing Yeah. That that's what was gonna happen. But it showed, you know, three really passionate groups getting after something that they loved, you know, from an artistic standpoint, from an expression standpoint, you know, Magnus from a, you know, personality standpoint. Um, yeah. And it blended a bunch of worlds. It was a very, it was a great genre

be, but also during that time, I'm gonna let my Porsche nerd show here. Yeah. And I'm pretty embarrassed, but, um, but during that time, uh, well one economic downturn was pretty rough. Like Yeah.

2008 recession.

Yeah. But if you look at like 9, 9, 6 GT three, GT two production numbers, this is early thousands. 9, 9, 6, GT three in the US started in oh 3, 0 4, and then oh four, I think. Yeah. You know, went through 9, 9, 7 in 2010, like, dude, you're talking about, they made less than a thousand. For the US market. So they weren't look like worldwide production numbers on 9 9 6 GT three was like 1300 cars on 9, 9, 7 0.1. It's like 1500.2. It's like 1500 or less. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like so you're talking about like, think about how little they were putting into their top level cars. So you're like, we're making this halo car. We're gonna sell a thousand to the world. That's like nothing. Right? So I don't think so. To your point, I don't think they were really looking at it as like, oh, there's a big market for this stuff. They're like, we need to go racing. We make this fucking GT car. Like

I also

think homo car

that some

people might want.

Yeah. I also think that this is a very American conversation because Porsche was still on a pedestal in Europe. Just they lost it here.

That's a

good one. I think there was still very much a pedestal for Porsche over there. Um, I can't speak as much for other countries, but I was paying attention to what was happening there. Like I do think that here they just lost sort of what made them cool.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Right. And it wasn't that the cars weren't good. I mean, I, I, everyone has their feeling about the 9, 9 6, but like the 9, 9 6 is a fantastic great car. I love a nine six compared to a 9 9 3. It is a huge advancement on the nine. I mean, you look, I think the stat is like the stock 9, 9 6 was faster than the 9 9 3 turbo or something, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, like that's a huge advancement. Yeah. Like it was a really good car, but they sort of, I think just missed what the audience wanted. When, when that came

out. You know, what I think happened to Porsche with all the, the crazy hype around like Loof de Cult and RWB and Singer and all this stuff, and like kind of like top of funnel awareness of nine elevens is. I think the Ferrari effect happened and it's that Porsche used to be looked at a brand that is for enthusiasts and people who care about cars and the driving and all that. Then it became super popular to where it was more of a status symbol thing. It was more of like a, like, you're buying this thing 'cause it's expensive and, and sought after. So to me, like I used to look at Ferrari people. It's like you just have money and you wanted a cool car, so you bought a Ferrari. But like, you don't fucking care. You're not into cars. You don't work on 'em. You're not like living it. Right. And now nine elevens weren't that. But then like, now I know a bunch of guys who have nine elevens that don't own a tool set.

Yeah.

They don't, they don't think about cars. They just were like, I have money. I, I want something cool. If you, you asked

them what their tire pressure is, they'd say, I don't know what that the, you know, the TPM TS sensor doesn't say it's all, yeah. What are, what are, what are my out lab pressures gonna be at?

Yeah. Like, no, they don't, they don't know anything about cars. They just know that they wanted a nine 11 and they got one. And that I think was kind of that tipping point of like, oh, maybe they're not cool anymore. Because it's like, once you know, everyone had their favorite band as a kid who then made it onto the radio and then you were like, Ew, I'm not listening to them anymore.

But isn't that kind of the thing?

But this is exactly right. Yeah. This is where I wanna bring the conversation though, because Skinny jeans were cool and then they weren't cool functionally. They were just pants that fit a little snug. Nine elevens could still not be cool and still be an amazing car. Do you know what I'm, that's

like people who want them would prefer they weren't cool. Right.

But do you know, do you know what I'm saying? Like I think that this is cool. Is

subjective. Yeah.

That there's like a fashion element. There's like fashion and function that like drives trend. And right now nine elevens not even right now, the past 10 plus years, nine elevens have been like just the top A hype. Yeah. I mean the amount of people I know who own nine elevens just because they're cool, they're nine elevens in music videos. There's, you know, air Cold nine elevens in fashion ads and all of these things. But to me that doesn't make a nine 11 any less. Cool.

Right? Well it's the one thing, 'cause the silhouette of the nine 11 is,

it's one of the most iconic

shapes you cannot mistake. Silhouette of a nine 11. Whereas other cars like an E 30 M three for example, it's all nuance. Like

you realize you can't, you realize the silhouette of an E 30 M three is basically what my child draws when I say draw a car. Yeah,

for sure. About this, right? You like, is

that a Volvo or is that an M three? Yeah,

if you want to impress someone

or a Dodge area.

Yeah. If you want to impress like general people, a base nine 11 and a top level nine 11 look pretty similar. Like the shape is there and you're like, oh yeah, that's that. Right, right. Whereas if you have an E 30 M three, if you have a one 90 ei, if you have a fucking Audi RS two, it's a if you know, you know thing, that's literally your license plate. Yeah. So if you're trying to like flex to the general public that you are this unique person. Driving an old Audi station wagon that has Porsche parts on it, like isn't going to express that enough except to deep nerds.

Yes. But those, that's who I wanna talk to.

No, no. I know. But that's

when I'm in a gas station. I want the deepest of nerds Yeah. To ask. Yeah. Because you appreciate

that

about my

Audi. But then that comes back to the whole thing about when somebody says, what's the guy's name? Who said that Porsches aren't cool anymore?

James Humphrey.

Yeah. When he says, um, Porsches aren't cool, what does cool mean to who? And you guys, you guys kind of kicked this off with that. I don't want Porsches to be tremendously cool to people who don't, I think add value back into the, the, the, the culture and community of it. I want them to be cool because they're robust. You can do almost anything you want with them. Yeah. Aside from turning into a monster truck, um, they, they're strong, they're well built. They're engineered to out punch anything in their weight in horsepower class, you know? And that's, that to me is cool when you can take something like that, what the, the ripple effect. To, to, you just said something 10, you said 10 years ago, and I thought back 10 years ago, the 9 9 1 GT three came out.

Mm-hmm.

And that to me was like,

that's crazy.

Yeah. And that was 2014 or 1516 now, but like 2014 that was introduced. And that was when I started to see the, the seriousness of the driver fade into the darkness with their three cards that they have, their F body, G body, and a new nine and a 9, 9 7 GD three. And they just kept those and they didn't move on to the nine nine ones. And so the people who did move on to the nine, nine ones. Yeah. Maybe there were track rats. Yeah. And they wanted something. And then, but Porsche had a hiccup then, and it almost killed it because the people who said, oh nine one one's gonna be a lot faster. Then the engine started blowing up. They had a Right, the f the F engine. Yeah. And then that almost, I saw that almost kill the track enthusiast. Right. And they started looking back at the 9, 9 6 and 9 9 7 GT threes. And they're like, you know what, actually, actually I can get a cup car for half the price.

Yeah.

You know, and, and go get a, you know, and so it was a, it's a weird, a weird gig here.

Well, I was gonna say like, financially though, it has to be great as a business owner who services Porsche's because the values have climbed up. So your clientele who are buying 'em should have more money or are willing to spend more money on 'em.

There's, there's a different viewpoint on that.

Yeah.

There's, you know, when with ADMs on, and the dealership, the person who could go get a 9, 9, 7, 9, 9 1 9, 9 2 GT three or Rs, they're, they're paying a lot more for the car. So now what that's done is created a. A value appreciation model that then if I'm, is it still gonna be worth as much if I mod it? Mm-hmm. Yeah. There's also, there's also, holy shit, I just spent my, well,

you also are buying them as investments now,

right? I also spent my entire mod budget just to get in line for a fraud. Right, right, right. And so,

oh, that's interesting.

Yeah. And then, and then you look at like nine, nine sevens. They, they shot up. What are you doing with year nine? Nine seven, right now you're putting it kind of back to stock. You're the the new one. Yeah, the new one.

Yeah. I'm putting not back to stock, but

like, but you're getting it more street, right? Yeah.

More

treatable. Well, I, I've done more conversions back to stock on cars lately than I have modifying them. I mean, that's an exaggeration, but

No,

but I know what mean that, that is the flip side. That's kind of sad. That is the, and that's that

I, I wanna buy a car that was built by you guys and the dude's like, yeah, I know it's not gonna be worth as much because it's built.

Right.

It's a nine, nine, a white 9, 9, 7 GT two.

Yeah. Okay.

So he, he like, thinks he wants to sell and he is like, I don't know where to price it. 'cause like the mod ones sell for. Fractions of the price.

Except there was a time right before the GT twos went up the 9 9 2 or the 9 9 7 GT twos, right? They were they're still in like the $200,000 range. Yeah, and we had two modified ones out there, heavily modified and they, it was the one time I ever saw getting a premium for a car. 'cause it was built by us.

Sick.

Yeah, this, it was a black one. That's the car that made like 1600 horsepower. And we, we proved that it was a reliable package. And then another white one earlier on. And those are the only two that went above market. What

do you do with 1600 horsepower? I don't know. 11. Like

remember we drove that R

eight.

What

does mine make? 400?

Yeah, maybe

It's plenty.

Remember we remember we drove that IRR eight. On a drag strip. Yeah. On a airstrip.

Yeah. It was

bonkers.

Bonkers.

Like,

although

I was, I literally drove it and I was like giddy for like 40 minutes after. Yeah, it hank So

yeah, it was Hank IRA's. It was, it was giddy. But

I even said, I was like, this is stupid. What do you do with this? But

there were definitely,

definitely can't do anything. It

wasn't raw. It was just fast.

It was insane.

It was insane. It's 1600 horsepower, two wheel drive H pattern nine 11 is as fucking raw as you'll ever get. Like there was H

pattern. Gotta

be nuts, dude. No. 'cause the car's constantly trying to drive in front of itself with the rear end every shift, it's slowly on weights and it gets back down and starts smoking the tires again. And it's like, that's why when I look at I, I'm like trying, you know, trying to set records out there. This was a little while ago. I haven't gone to the strip in a long time. But then I was like watching people in Lamborghinis and Rh just like drinking coffee, you know, making the same horsepower, dusting me, you know, like Right,

right.

So, but it's part of that driving experience that you just get out. You're like, whoa, what?

Yeah.

Whoa. It's like. Grabbing a tiger by the tail and slapping his ass and like let go.

Like Brian said, we drove the R eight 6,000 horsepower. Yeah. Fucking dual clutch, whatever. It's very like managing. I didn't even know what gear I was in. I was like, ah, ba ba ba. And I was like, oh, watch a video back to find out. I made it into six. Yeah. Whereas like with an H pattern car, you, you know exactly what you, you're doing,

you

know?

Well, like even in Evo, Evo makes 800 horsepower when we got it yanked up, maybe seven 40 when I was driving it. That is so, so, so much car. But here's the thing, it's not really the fastest car out there. No. It's, it's very, very engaging. It's very like, and that's what I'm after I'm after, I'm after that feeling that this car requires your attention and it requires your respect. And it doesn't matter. It could be a G Body at 150 horsepower and a Canyon road. Yeah. Or it could be 800 horsepower paddle shifted Evo. But I want that feeling that I get when I downhill ski or mountain bike or shift a cart. You know where other people, yoga, meditation, they get that same singularly focused. Yeah. Met, you know, you get out, you're just like, oh, I needed, that's why

the, the, the, the focus required to drive cars is probably why a lot of these kids are just like driving their cars off Angeles Crest. 'cause like you get G 87 M two and you're like, I don't need to do shit. And then you're just doing a hundred on a decreasing radius corner and you're like,

and you just pilot. Yeah, exactly. So like the level of respect that you have to have for a vehicle that. Can bite you.

Yeah.

It, it, you don't, that element that's numb in these newer cars, like it is unbelievably how quick they can go. But you still have a loss of physics. Again, I don't care what kind of ace traction control you still have lateral in the minute acceleration versus, versus one G and like.

And the minute you break traction, physics takes over.

Physics

are like, and it doesn't matter anymore how well the car was handling until the moment. It does.

Yeah. Right. Like when I spun the car, it is the same thing. It's like there's no TC or a b, s or vectoring that could save you. I left the limits of, of, of physics, right? Yeah. And I was like, now I'm along for the ride. Like a lawn dart heading toward the wall. Yeah. But

and again, and like this might just be because of my age now. 'cause I have a kid, but like I am so much more attracted to a slow car, fast than a fast car. Slow

admit. Just admit it. Admit it. We are getting older. We are appreciating things a little differently now, but, but we're not going for that. Those accolades that we went and ran.

But I also wouldn't want to drive a new car slow. 'cause it's just not exciting.

Yeah, but you don't feel like you're driving a new car fast until it's way too late. Oh, I it you that's the problem. Yeah.

Yeah.

You won't get that

feeling. You guys take out my Audi 200 Avan on snow tires. Yes. By the farm. It's terrifying. Car slides all four wheels into most corners.

And guess what you're,

and you're doing like 30 miles an hour. And guess what? If you fuck up, you barely go off.

Right. But guess what? I promise you one thing. You're only thinking about that, but you're not thinking about like, yeah, yeah. You are. You are focused, you're focus, there you go, is what everything's doing. That's the idea. And

you're sawing the wheel.

To me, that's what makes a car cool. Not how fast it is, not the lap times, but that connection that you can get with it, where all of a sudden you, when you get back out of it, you're like, oh, I, I, I actually didn't think about it. Anything. Especially a DD mind, like you and me and Oh yeah. Vin's a lot more collected, but um, like, you know, it's like it gives you that feeling of almost just like relief

I

times it's my meditation.

Yes. Driving. Exactly.

That's why I was offended by the Porsches aren't cool anymore thing because I was like, Porsches are only not cool in a certain vertical. Right. Which is.

Segmented in a, I bought this because I was a in line for an appreciating asset, or B, I can go hang with other people who have Porsches, who I think are cool. And that's obviously what they drive.

Yeah. And honestly, and if you just wanna buy your way into a community, like I'm not even mad at that. I'm just more like, that's a

cool community. Also admit it and don't tell me that Porsches aren't cool anymore because you got into the community. You don't really like half the people in there anyway.

So I, I actually, 'cause like James is a, a good friend of mine, so like I, I love giving my friend shit, but like, I wanna let him drive my GT three and be like, tell me this is, that's a great episode. Tell me this is a cools a great episode because I know, but I, but again, I know where he's coming. Put him on

Evo on track

again. I know where he's coming from is like, James and I like, did he

preface that? I didn't watch that

episode. No, but I get what he's getting at because it's like, James and I enjoy cars differently. And I think that he is looking at it specifically from like an aesthetic and like optics situation, not like a. Experiential driving thing.

And I,

I, which is fine,

I get

it because I do agree on like that surface level.

And I get it. And I have say this like, I grew up as like a kid in the punk rock scene. The minute a band got on the radio you didn't like him. Yeah.

But that's what

happens, right? Like green's the natural

progression

of success,

but success, unfortunately.

Yeah. Like, that's just what happens. You get bigger, you're bigger. Trust me, there are people who hated Hoonigan once Hoonigan got too big. I get it. And I respect it. I think with the Porsche thing right now, it's

such a paradox though,

isn't it?

Like

Well, no, but, but like, it's weird 'cause like I'll tell people like, oh yeah, like even just forget, I mean this is a different conversation, but like, people hate R WBS now. I don't care. I fucking love this car. I love how it looks. I love how it drives. I love everything. It does. I've had people hit me up and say, oh, are you gonna remove all the RWB stuff? And it's like, why? Because the internet made some memes about Mackay. Like, I care, man. Like you're losing sleep over my car. Like that's funny. Yeah.

Guess what? I still think rws are irrelevant. I still think they, they're a huge, huge fixture in what created the culture that we're just sitting talking about won. Like you can't hate on that no matter what.

Yeah. You know, it'll be remembered.

Yep.

The good parts of it, you know, it won't be remembered. The memes. That's true. Like the time he got caught, like mocking up a toe hook, like that was funny.

Yeah,

that was great. Internet apparently brain rob, but like, no one's gonna remember that in 15 years.

Yeah. And apparently the story, 'cause I reached out to them and was just like, Hey man, just so you guys know this, like kind of like does, like you guys should respond to this and whatever, and it's like. They were doing it for the photo shoot. The guy had an air tank

that's I know. Yeah.

In the front of the car. So they couldn't actually mount it. And then they kind of glued it on as a joke and they filmed it glued on as a joke. But it didn't translate.

But it didn't translate. And there's nobody's 75 people watching you do it. Yeah. So like you can't,

yeah. And you have, you have the energy of the internet wanting to just shit on you for something. And they're like that. See

what happened? I'll say this. The fact that you put air on a nine 11 is a problem to me. Yeah. And that's a whole nother, that doesn't belong on there. It's a different audience, but whatever.

But also it's like, uh, and I'm sure you deal with it with like clients and like who's actually gonna spend money, but it's like, you know, people make fun of RWB for doing that glued on tow hook thing, but then you're like, none of y'all motherfuckers are buying one. Because the guys who are like, I know a couple of guys who have built them recently. They're still buying 'em. They're not like worried about it. Nah.

You know, they live in, they live in the price bracket they live in. Memes don't go to their house.

Yeah, exactly.

Memes are, they get stuck at the

bottom of

the

house for

slow work class people.

Yeah, yeah. They get filtered out over at my

house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Memes are different. They don't, they don't get past those.

But if you have, if you have air on, a air cooled. Nine 11 glue your toe hook on. You're not gonna the track.

Yeah. If, if you have air on any nine 11,

just glue your toe hook on. Yeah, you're fine.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah. Or you put rain light on a car and you live in southern California. That to me it's also,

I'm so happy I didn't finish doing that on the 360.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I thought about you put a rain light, you know the FIA rain light?

Yeah.

Yeah. On

yeah. The, the, like the the brake flight.

Yeah, the brake bud mid. Yeah. You do that on a car and you live in Southern California. Like okay. Are you half of the track days get canceled when it rains Anyway. See I'm

a little bit of a loser 'cause I'm like, it looks cool. So

it looks cool.

But that's just me.

That's right. I'll be a little bit So

it's a different verdict. It's a different vertical.

Do they make 'em for the 360? I want one too

dude. It's got the perfect spot in the big diffuser forehead.

See we just,

oh, I love it.

Risotto Brothers over here.

Damn.

Um,

you're risotto

brother. I know that you have a hard out. I gotta go 'cause you gotta pick up your kids. So I'm gonna ask you a couple quick questions. Hit me so. Type 99 Evo.

Mm.

We talked about this is you trying to take all the best parts of all Porsches, you've driven over the whole gamut of the existence of the nine 11.

Right?

And stick it into one car.

Right.

What to you is the best driver's? Nine 11.

We just built it,

well, not a modified one. Like if you had like off the showroom floor.

Oh,

what, what

would be oh 9, 9 7. One gd, three Rs.

Okay.

That to me was the most fun I had in a stock car ever.

And then of, of the air cold generation, what would be the top for you?

Um, I would say, I would have to say a nine 30.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Because it just, look, you're not going for all out speed in any G Body car, but it gives you this feeling like. I'm in a fucking nine 11. Yeah, it's making the noises you've read about like the turbo car. It's, and it is just so much fun to lean into one on a stock nine 30 and then get on the throttle and feel like trying to fight for, like, I've

never driven one, but I want

to Yeah. So bad and there's something so special about that. Um,

well my car, not anymore, but originally was basically a nine 30 with revised rear suspension.

Right.

Because it's, that's still nine 30 engine set up before they went to the three six, right? Yeah,

yeah. Still the MFI engine and all that stuff, but yeah, it's a banana armed car. And then on your car particularly, they had the wider rear link, so it actually had a lot more rear stability.

And it still stepped out on

you. It still Yeah. Multiple times. Yeah. You still almost wiped out, but yeah, that's, to me, I think the nine 30 and the 9 9 7 thought one GT three RS.

That's a good one. That's a

good one. Yeah. Yeah,

yeah.

All right. But Tim, well thanks for stopping by unless you have any other questions for you. Got any last moment? Last things. 'cause I'm gonna keep Vinny here for like another three hours. We're gonna keep going. I

thought you were my ride.

No, I saw y'all drive two separate cars.

Well, why don't we see how a one hour and nine minute pod does?

Nah, it's not, trust me, all the hate will go right toward towards you. These guys are in for the long run.

They get hate on me. It's fine.

No, we all right boys, I gotta go. All right, bye. Peace and love. See ya.

What the fuck are we gonna talk about?

Oh, hey, you know, this is a good time for me to remind you guys that if you like what you're hearing, there's more of it on Patreon. For example, I could read you articles from zero to 60 that I. I don't actually have to do that. I wasn't planning on it. But the cool thing about Patreon is I can do kind of whatever you guys want because on Patreon you're the boss. Go subscribe. So ready to get into the conversation. You,

yeah, I'm ready. I'm like, I know. Trying to jump in first. I know it's hard. I feel like I got the train. It's like we're waiting. I got the train break on. Trying to jump in front of Brian. Let's

quiet sec. And

yo, the two over talkers. Brian dedicated some time to being on my YouTube channel as part of our deal. And I kept them for too long. So now this podcast is gonna go till tomorrow.

That's right. Here we go. Okay. I, I wanna get back to the core of this, which is, and, and like I wanna be careful 'cause like I'm not trying to gatekeep like people wanna come spend a hundred thousand dollars on nine 11 and belong to whatever. That's cool. I think the thing that worries me, and it's the same thing that worried me in any of the hobbies or things I did, was the minute it, and I feel about this way just in car culture in general, but like we can be specific on nine elevens. I was really into snowboarding. Snowboarding got really big. It was really cool to watch snowboarding get big. It went to the Olympics, all the mountains let us ride there. There was all this plus side to it. And then all of a sudden like snorting died and like you watched, like everything kind of drained out from it, right? And obviously people who were riding in the sport lost sponsorship, right? Like all of a sudden, like the whole industry shrink. I've seen it in the automotive space multiple times.

Damn. You think the automotive industry is gonna shrink? 'cause right now, now it's like hotter than ever.

I think it's gonna shrink.

Yeah.

With a lot of phones,

people who like don't care. Because I've been once before, like the pimp, my ride era, it was massive. There was so much money in automotive everybody was spending in automotive. And not just automotive but like non demic, which created all this jobs and it created all this industry and it created a lot of like fake sense of security for people. And then it rippled

because I think people are jumping into automotive 'cause it's cool. Yeah. And then, which is

awesome.

Obviously everyone who's trying to fucking cloud up is starting businesses and ways to generate revenue. And I think that that second, that shit doesn't work out. They're gonna be like a mass exodus. So they're just gonna be like, I'm out.

So I think like the way, yeah. And this is what. Know, always worries me. So I, I, you know, back in the day, I always used to say this, like, one of my most important goals at Hoonigan was to bring younger audiences into cars. Because like when we started Hoonigan cars were not, um, like that, you know, young kids weren't getting their licenses. Like it just wasn't Yeah. I

remember the whole campaign, the

deck, everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. And it was like, we were, it was like a, it was a thing and it wasn't just a thing that we put in a deck. It was like, I really believed it. I wanted to see more kids find the same hobbies that we did. 'cause I, I, I love cars and I love car culture. Yeah, same. And that's the reason that all of us are friends and it's great. Um, the scary thing is though, is that when it gets too big, it's like a tidal wave. Like it pulls all the way out, like as big as the wave is coming in. Like you get this like retraction. Yeah. And the retraction part is what scares me where. The nine 11 community gets huge and it, I mean, loof, all these things are amazing. Like, I, like I've said this, hands down, I think Loof de cult changed what the concept of a car show should be.

Totally.

I think that that, you know, pat and like that whole crew, they, they did a fantastic job with it. I always enjoy going. They're highly curated. It, it, it inspired a bit of what we did with Tre Punk. Um, I, I just think they do a fantastic job at it and it's during this and I think that one, it couldn't have happened if Porsche's didn't peak the way they did, but I also think that they're part of what helped to peak, right? Yeah. Because they gave a, a place for all of this. And I think my fear is that I, I don't think I could think of any single mark that felt as big as Porsche's fill right now.

No. Yeah.

And it's like, what happens if the floor falls out on that and like, what does that look like for. You know, Porsche tuners all the cool parts. 'cause without question, everything that has happened with Porsches right now has been good for Porsche owners. One, totally. The value of a car has gone up. But even if you didn't want the value of your car to go up like me, 'cause I have no intention of selling it. Like the accessibility to parts, to aftermarket stuff, like to all this like really cool bespoke stuff that people make. Like, you know, all these things have come out in the marketplace now because of it. Um, that's really cool. But like, does a lot of that fall away and then you just get to this world where like, I. You know, I, I, I want to be careful 'cause I don't wanna be like, I'm so punk rock. Once other people like Porsches, I didn't like them.

Right.

Yeah. I still love my Porsche.

Yeah.

It doesn't change anything about the way I feel about my car. It does make me feel a little bit different about other people's cars though. 'cause you're like, I've just seen this a lot. It feels saturated. It's kind of like the same thing. See,

I actually don't, I don't have any feeling about the Porsche scene. Like, I don't care. Mm-hmm. I don't care how many people are into it. I don't care anything. Like, it doesn't affect me at all. I think the only topic I was really thinking about was like saying they're no, no longer cool. Yeah. Is kind of crazy to me.

And by the way, we've called James out for this and I don't wanna single him out. A lot of people are

saying no, I, no, this is like, it's a thing.

It's like become the new thing is to be like, oh, Porsches aren't cool. And it's like, no, Porsches are hyper cool. Yeah. Like, like as a driver's car. Like they are fantastic

people. Yeah. And that's why I guess I really don't care because I, you know, you, you enjoy things the way you enjoy them. So for me, like I go to cars, coffee meet and stuff, but like you. Like, you use your car for what it is. Yeah. Like, you know, I, I don't know if I give a shit that, you know, Deus is flooded with nine 11 es and you know, all these guys driving targets that don't care about 'em. Like it doesn't affect me. Right. I'm just like, I think it's kind of corny, but I'm like, you do you.

Yeah.

You know, like,

but like to me, yeah, I think there's a part of it where there was this surge of like, I'm gonna buy any nine 11. I can, I don't care what it is Totally. I just wanna belong and I want to own a nine 11. And, and it's like, it's a targa or it's a worse avert. Um, like, honestly, like just pause for a second.

Uh, I actually, uh,

why, why about Build nine 11 convertibles?

Uh, a subscriber just hit me up Uhhuh and I was so excited. 'cause I had just mentioned that I was like, gonna start a dealership and I wanna like, sell cars. Yeah. And I'll say something about that in a sec. But he offered me a car and he's like, I have a 89, 9 30. I was like one, I thought 89 was nine. Six four, but maybe not nine 30.

No, no. So late 89 became nine. Six

four. Yeah. So I was like, wow. Yes, I want this. And he was like, all right, got good and bad. What do you wanna know first? I was like, gimme the good. He's like, car is great, G 50, blah, blah. What's the bad? He's like, it's a cab. I was like, not interested.

Yeah.

Damnit. I was like, dude, the fact like finding an off market nine 30 is like incredible, but a cab, I just couldn't do it.

I said we were gonna stay focused, but I just want to have the convertible conversation because 10 years ago I heated all convertibles unless it was a suicide door, Lincoln like, or like a vintage drop. Yeah, right. Like big body.

Yeah.

I slowly find myself wanting a convertible again.

Yeah.

But I can't cross the line with an nine 11.

I hate

because we talked about like a a 9, 6 4 convert. I hate

nine 11. Convertible.

Nine 11 is just a weird shape to me. So are beetles by the

way. You know what's also a really bad convertible? The three 50 and three 70 Z, the Nissan Duke or whatever. Like there's just,

I mean, what's good about the Duke?

Yeah. I dunno. But it's just the same awkwardness where you're like, this doesn't look good with no roof. You know? What's a good looking convertible? E 30, E 36. E 46.

SOB nine.

Dope.

SOB nine three.

Hard convertible cabby. VW cabbie. All right. Maybe I stand alone there, but we were like, all we were, we were, we were, we were going for a second. We were there for a second.

Yeah. Does that make any convertibles? TT doesn't count.

The tts a convertible. They do make

it, yeah. It's like a speed

thing because it feels more like the Roadster. It's like a

Roadster. Yeah.

You know. All right, so this is a complete tangent, but, uh, B six S four. Cabs.

Oh, sick. We went to H two. It was tight.

Are are actually really affordable right now. Like I've been thinking about buying one as a daily because it's kind of dope,

so I don't hate all convertibles. Yeah. Mercedes, the king of cool

convertibles. Mercedes. Mercedes crushes the convertible.

Come on. I mean, Mercedes.

No, no, it's true. Convertible sell. Convertibles are fresh.

Day

nine. Way back all the way back from the sixties.

Nine 11 convertibles. Can't do it. Just

doesn't work. Just

doesn't work for me.

Is that because they stylistically don't look cool or just that the card needs to be a hard top

Everything. I don't know. There's something about it like makes me mad. Like I just wanna punch 'em when I see him. Just like I hate you. I don't know what it is about your face. Just change it.

No, I get it.

You know, you're just like, oh so

bad. It's like, it's like, you know what it is about the nine 11 cab To me it's like someone who has a ton of like God-given talent that they don't use. You're like, you were like Austin

sports.

Yeah. Like playing something like, like a six foot eight man who could have played ball instead. You got into sports for the Nick Lockers. But instead I got into things that were meant for short people like snowboarding, BMX and sports cars. Exactly. Yeah. That's the kind of frustration I had, I guess. You

know, today is a big mental clarity day. I think the wow. You also have a two by four that holds up lights. That's incredible. Um,

they don't see that on camera. We don't talk about

that. Yeah. It's a good move. That's it. Honestly, this guy's, one day on the Patreon, Brian's gonna show you through. I'll show you my two by

four.

Incredible. Um. I think today made me realize the reason why I hate nine 11 cabs is because to me, you buy a nine 11 because they're like a sports car. But like if you buy a nine 11 cab, you're, are you sports car it, you're probably not sports car it.

No you're not sports car. It, it,

so then just get cooler.

Just get a cooler car cruise. Yeah. Because it's actually, 'cause honestly a nine 11 is not a fun car to cruise. It doesn't cruise. Well

get a convertible that you could put people on the back.

Yeah.

Like,

like a SOB nine three.

Yeah. Yeah. Or a Mercedes sl.

The one good use for cabs is to give them to TJ Russell so he can make Baja nine elevens from them.

Yeah. That was

good. That's pretty cool.

Yeah. Or sell 'em to like singer and they could put roofs on 'em and stuff.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's, I thought about buying,

we should start a campaign to like, like, you know, it's like help, like, like help put a roof over your cabby. You know, it's like a, i I, we like run the whole thing, like it's a homeless campaign, but it's really just like, let's put roofs back on cabbie.

I thought about. Seeing if that cab was cheap enough that I could put a roof on it. But then I was like, ah, nine 11 people are a little finicky on the 'cause, like the turbo's like a collector. So like, I don't know if anyone's gonna buy it, but I was like, that would've been fun.

Yeah, I

think whole project,

I think you can put the Targa on it a lot easier

probably.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah. But I was like, yeah, I don't care.

I judge the, um, the Porsche Classic event and someone found. I think it was a cabbie, no, I think it was a targa. And then they converted to a cabbie and then they converted back to a targa. And like the painstaking steps they did, just to get the cart back to like what the window sticker said was kind of incredible.

Yeah, that's

crazy. Like I really like, I'm not that kind of person on the purist level. It's equivalent of like my wife did to the house. But it was kind of cool to see the amount of work that they went into like restoring the car because when they looked at the paperwork, they realized it was like a one of seven.

Yeah.

And I'm not a like, oh my God, it's a one of seven. But, you know, I respect people who wanna do

that stuff, but I mean, uh, you know, again, being a full blown fucking loser, um, follow the car market and stuff, like, you could easily put this 9 6 4 turbo back to factory and sell it for half a million dollars.

Which is wild

because,

well, it was a red, it was a white on red car.

White on red,

and it was dealership and deal

spend. You could, you could put it back to stock and sell it for a ton of money because like. The rare car world is kind of crazy. So like big, big, big money cars that were preserved will always like be, you know, 10 x because I just sold my GT three RS. So I've been watching the market, you know, 'cause I wanna see like what other ones are going for, seeing if I made a mistake. And there's one right now selling on bring a trailer for a tremendous amount of money. And it's a GMG car also. Mine was 19, this one's 23. And it used to be two years ago, a year ago, if a car came up and it was modified and put back to stock, it broke. The people came out with the pitchforks and like tank the sale. 'cause they're like, you're not pulling one over on us, right? You want collector grade cars. This thing had a sequential shifter. It had every arm replaced, every suspension. It had stop texts. It had J Z's, everything. Now it's dolled up all stock carbon ceramics back on it's stock suspension, everything. And it's selling for a tremendous amount of money. And people don't even give a shit that it has been put back to stock now.

But that's 'cause all the original ones are gone. And I, I watched that happen in the air cooled community where at first it was the turbos that got expensive and then it was the C twos.

Yeah.

And then it was like the track cars converted back. Right. And then it was the C fours and then it was the targets. Yeah. And then even the cabbies went up in price. I mean, I would, I never thought a 9, 6, 4 cabby was gonna be worth more than

20 grand. Yeah. And I didn't buy my 9, 9, 7, the new one to sell it. But I'm like, you know, I probably could put this back to stock and leave the four liter in it.

Mm-hmm.

And get a tremendous amount of money. Let people, I mean, I make YouTube videos like I'm not hiding anything. Yeah. But I guarantee I could show everything, show putting the car back to stock and still sell it for money.

Right. Because

the market amount of money,

the market demands it.

Yeah. It's not like, get another one,

you'll find another one

for cheaper. Yeah. There's two listed for sale. Have fun.

Yeah.

You know, like,

but then you'd be without nine 11.

Yeah. Which I can't be

like if you had to choose right now between a Ferrari and a nine 11,

uh, nine 11. Well this is so fucking lame for the internet. The Ferrari crushes.

Yeah.

So

because it's, this is what we said in that episode. The Ferrari is a special car.

Yeah. Internet. Internet me needs the 360. If I were just like, if I deleted my internet and I was like, I get one fun car to drive, it's gonna be the nine 11 all day. A hundred percent. I love the 360. But if I only could have one and I didn't care about anything else. Two, three. Yeah, for sure.

When I spend like a day driving nine 11, like I get home and like I begrudgingly pull it into the garage 'cause I want to stay out in the car. Like, it just, I, it is an experience that none of my other cars have. Um, I don't know, it just, it just is and not, not that I don't love the Ferrari, it, the Ferrari is super special, but I'm happy to take it in like one hour long dosages where the nine 11 like is just

jolly. And I got back and we were fucking jazzed. We were looking at rollers and I was like, this is so cool. Like having those two cars out. It was like incredible. I was so pumped.

I'm not saying it wasn't cool. I'm saying like, we didn't go run canyons. We like just cruised around industrial

areas, driving around. In Long Beach area of California, I, anytime I get home, I'm like, I'm so thankful to not be in a car.

Dude, there was one moment where we were like, you had already gotten over to the left lane and I was behind you, and then you went over and I realized that there was just like an opening in the earth that went all the way down to hell.

Oh yeah.

It was just like a 10 foot hole. Yeah. That I had to, and I got like one tire stuck in it 'cause I couldn't move over faster.

Sometimes I watch these car YouTubers in the UK and they make like car videos and they're just out in like whales. Driving and it's like quiet and beautiful. And then I think about the day we had, we were driving around fucking Wilmington and it's just like, if there's not a homeless guy yelling, it's a fucking 18 wheeler with its rear axle locked up, driving by. Did you see that next to me? Yeah. Like you're just like, what is, I

was like, this is gonna be the moment I lose my car. It was just the, the whole back of the trailer was just bouncing

next to me. Yeah. I was like, what goes on here? You can't get a single moment of silence. It's like insane.

Yeah. But anyway, but I don't know. Back to the Porsche thing, it's, uh, I, it's, it's a weird place to be. 'cause it's like, just like as I'm now older, did you like Green Day when you were a kid?

No,

because they were just like too poppy or because they were on the radio. I

think by the time

you were,

you

were a lot younger than me because

I'm, I'm,

you're almost 10 years younger

than me. Yeah. I'm almost 10 years younger than you. So by the time I'm

three seven.

Three seven,

yes. You're nine.

So by the time. Yeah. Like I learned about it. It probably just felt like another radio band.

Yeah.

To me, like, you know, I didn't get the cool experience. It was just like a band I listened to on K Rock

for me in that era. I was like super dialed in. I, I mean, literally like my lifestyle was hanging out at punk rock bars and hanging out with punk bands and, and all of that, you know, and like, you know, doing all that stuff. And it was like, if you didn't hate Green Day, you weren't welcome in that space. Right?

Yeah. Yeah.

And like, I now listen to Green Day and Blink 180 2. I didn't listen to any of it when I was younger because it was like, I was just like, oh, it's not cool. Too many people listen to it. But like, I don't know, like the Dukey album's like pretty good. And like, and like as you get older and now it's like, I respect that those guys like did their thing.

Yeah.

Kind of bummed that No Effects never made any money 'cause they never sold out or whatever. But as you get older, you're like, ah, yeah. You kinda like see it from like, from a different perspective. And I, I bring that up because I think what we're talking about today, verge is on the like Yeah. Porsches were cool when I was into them. Yeah. But now that everybody else is into 'em, I don't think they're cool anymore. I'm not saying that. I still think Porsches are really cool. I don't think Porsches will ever stop being cool. I don't think Porsches were, I think Porsches were just as cool in 1988 as they are. They'll be in 19, in 20, 28.

Yeah.

But there's a trend that like made them like hype. Yeah. And like the hype thing is different than the cool thing.

Totally. But I think we'll see like the hype train, we, we've seen hype come and go at a ton of different things that we're into. Yeah. So I don't know. I, I feel like. It's been pretty evergreen though. Like the Porsche hype has been up for 10 years, like usually 10

years plus

Now. I wonder if that's because for most people buying a car is such a big purchase that like once you're in, you're kind of in and you're like, I'm not gonna just sell this thing.

Oh, I think Porsche ownership right now is like Los Angeles real estate. Like you're afraid to sell because you know you can't buy back in again.

Totally. Yeah. Especially if you've been into it. Like if you got on kind of the early kick when you bought a car and left was just getting it started.

Or me, when I bought this at 30 grand. Yeah. And it's 10 x or 35

grand. Yeah. I mean, dude, I I, I bought my GT threes for half of what they're worth. Like it's insane, you know? And I'm like, I actually am, I'm one of the guys. I bought a car, I sold it, and now I'm like, I kinda want one. I could afford to buy it again. Yeah. But like, I won't, you know? Yeah. Like I still have the money. I could just go out and buy it, but I'm like, I uh, don't want to.

That's why like, 'cause you used to gimme so much shit for not selling this and they were worth even less back then.

Yeah.

But you supposed be like, dude, that is the biggest come up. Like

that's the craziest thing ever. Yeah. To buy a car for 35 grand to have it be worth $300,000 is like, fuck man. That's insane.

And the problem is, is like, if right now you were like, here's $300,000 in cash and I handed you the title. I couldn't hand you that money to buy the car back.

Yeah.

Because like, but for right now, like, it, even though it, it's worth that in my head, it's like it's on paper. It's not like real life.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah. Right.

Until you cash

out. It's not like once that money's in your bank account, like I could never trade that for this again.

I guess my thing with you is I, you know, I never understand you. You're an enigma. I know. It's fine. You're an enigma of a person to me's because you are, um, you know, RWI and I talked about the GT three RS sale and I was like, you enjoy cars by having them and collecting 'em and owning them, and like, that's like, and I get it. And you go to his shop and they're all under like clear covers and

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know?

Right. He's a collector.

You are kind of a collector too, but you don't take care of anything. Like you're, I'm a, I'm a hoarder. You're like, I love this car so much. It's like disrespectfully dirty. I wanna fight you because of how dirty this car is. I'm like, can I clean this? I'm almost about to get you spon. This pod is gonna get sponsored by gtech and they're not even gonna pay you. They're just gonna have DBG come here and wash your cars once a week.

No, I would take that sponsorship, no money, just keep the cars clean.

Just, just pay Gustavo to come wash the cars once a month.

That's for the love of praises. That's, that's the deal. Just so Vinny can sleep at night and then he's sitting there going, I don't even like the S eight, but he put a car cover on it without cleaning it.

Oh God.

And it's black, fresh paint. Yeah. Yeah. So

you're just different. You're a special boy.

Yeah. Like I, the last thing I would want is like a Jay Leno situation where like all my cars are just like on display. I'd be

insane.

Like that's not what I want them for. Um, but for me, I just think that my timeline is a lot longer than everyone else's. Totally. Like I, and I,

you know, I realize

that like, it doesn't matter if it takes 25 years for me to get the Audi Cup. Quatro start, yeah. Finished. And by the way, that sounds like a crazy amount of time. It's already been 22 years, so I got, I got three years left.

No, you know, it's crazy 'cause uh, the first time I went to your other property and you were talking about building a barn with like a second story and whatever, and you were like, you said like super casually or like Yeah, I mean, it'll be, you know, it's probably 15 years out. I was like, oh my God. Scotto is so different from me because to me, I think about projects that I need to do like next month and I'd be like, I need to get that done now. Like, I'm so impatient. To a fault in a lot of ways. Like

you said this once to me at like Hoonigan, you know, you said those first two years you would drag us into these meetings and we would take, we would come up with these ideas and I just sat there saying, these are never gonna happen. 'cause two years went by and none of them happened. And then they all happened and it's like, I think that's just the difference is like my like it's probably like a bit of it. I don't mean to put everything on A DHD, but like there's this big joke in A DH adhd, which is like it for A DHD people. Time is only in two variables. One is now and not now.

Yeah.

So it's like I'm either working on it now or not now and not now could be like five years down the line.

Yeah. I guess 'cause, and this is totally tangential from

the, think about most of daily transmission and scumbag labs and all those ideas were ideas that we had had on the table for years. Yeah.

But I think, 'cause I think about things very practically with like what I can accomplish now or what I'm capable of now. Yeah. Whereas like you were thinking about stuff at Hoonigan that wasn't possible with the team we had and then we like. In some ways felt like we didn't plan for it and then we were like, oh fuck, now we can do it. And then we did it. I don't know if that was like fully planned 'cause I was a grom when I started there, so like who knows? But you know, like I'm just, you did you think in a different. Like in a different world, I think like right in front of me,

right? Like I have projects that require me to become a master fabricator before I can finish them. So anyway, I don't know. Um, I just look at projects differently.

Yeah. I respect it. I, I start to, uh, I start to realize it and I'm like, oh wow. Like. I think as I get older, I'm just better at like understanding how people function. Yeah. And I'm like, wow, we're all so fucking different. And like when you understand kind of what makes people tick and like how they think it, it's interesting. And that's why I always say to you, I'm like, I don't know. I don't really fucking understand you. Like,

yeah, I had this thought the other day. 'cause you'll say things to me and like in the moment I'll kinda laugh them off and then I'll like lay in bed being like, Hmm, that's weird. Maybe I should, maybe I should like talk to someone about that because

I'm like your practical friend that says it.

Yeah. Because like, I look and I, I've said this 2026 is the year that I get my car collection, you know, under control and like under control for me might be different than under control for you.

Yeah.

But like, I think I actually realized something that, like growing up as a kid who, you know, I, I, I'm not gonna say we were poor 'cause like a lot of people were more poor, but like we didn't have a lot. Right. And it's like that, I think when you do get stuff, you hold onto it like dearly. Because you're like, oh, I like if you got a good deal on something, you know, like my BMX bike, like I had a cool BMX bike, but like almost all the parts were bought secondhand.

Yeah. Same

got my Peregrine wheels, you know, and a trade like got my a three piece cranks and a trade. You know, like, and then once you got them you're like, this, I never will like go of this because like I could have never bought it at full price.

Yeah.

And you joke with me all the time. 'cause you're always like, you act like you're still poor, right? Yeah. But to me there's a bit of that with the car collection, which is like, I would never sell my nine 11 because I'm just too cheap to buy another one.

Yeah, same.

But you just sold yours.

Yeah. Yeah. But for a, for a business reason and I think like, you know, we had talked about, uh, my dealership and how to do it with content. I think like the red thread for like long-term viewership is my fucking goal is to get an F 40. Like I've had it in my bio forever that it's paperclip to F 40 and the goal of the dealership. What is an F

40 cost today?

2 million bucks. That's insane. And I'm not gonna buy one for me, like I'm not gonna buy an F 40 and drive it. But my goal for the dealership will be to transact an F 40. That's cool. Meaning like, I work my way up to earning enough money where I can buy an F 40, make two fucking videos on it and drive it and then sell a couple times and then sell it. Like, 'cause I don't wanna own a $2 million F 40, but

if this makes you nervous,

if my goal was to be like, I'm gonna build up my business so I can, I can transact them, like that would be sick. And I think that will be fun for me as like my North Star, because then I'll never feel like, oh, I got rid of this car that, you know, I, I'm bummed about missing. It'll be like, no, I'm fucking, I'm trying for the top, you know? 'cause that was always the joke. My bio has always been Paperclip F 40 and I'm like,

the F 40 just seems so outside it of it's

so nowhere near reality.

Yeah. I mean, all of those cars, car gt, like, they all just feel. Just so removed. But my

thing

is, remember, I remember when that car was 400 grand.

And like I said earlier though, it's like I, a lot of times, like I look at the price of cars, um, differently because I look at like inverse out, right? So it's like, to me, if you're like, I'm gonna spend, you know, 200 grand and buy a X, Y, Z, yeah, but I know I'm gonna sell it for 200 grand. Not even making profit. Like if you're just like, I can use it and I could sell it for about what I paid. Like, it's not really like a big drop. Yeah. So if I'm like doing a business and I'm buying and selling cars, like buying a $2 million car might not matter if you're gonna sell it for two point. Like 10% is what brokers make. So if you buy a 2 million car and you sell it for 2.2 million bucks, you're like, bro, you made 200 grand.

Yeah. It's sick.

You know,

it's sick.

It's insane.

Are you, uh, did your parents, um, like. When I say buy and sell, do they swap out cars often? Uh, because your dad worked at a dealer.

My dad worked at still works at the same dealership. That's

wild.

Crazy.

That's such a Long Island thing.

Yeah. Um, my mom had like three cars our whole life.

Yeah.

Uh, she didn't go through cars, but uh, my dad used to get demo cars every Okay. Every six months or every six weeks or something.

I ask. 'cause my parents would buy, my parents never would buy used cars. They would buy brand new cars and then at some point a tow truck would take them off our property.

Oh. My dad,

like my dad would literally drive a car until it just wouldn't drive anymore and nobody would buy.

That's how my dad is though. So my dad gets new cars, uh, from the dealership as like demos.

Yeah.

Uh, constantly. Now he gets used to ones, but like, he used to get new ones when I was a kid. But every car he is ever had, like my mom's cars. Used until nothing. Yeah. Like they have a E 46, uh, ZHP convertible.

I know. I've been in it.

Oh, that's right.

Yeah.

And um, he bought that car for like 4,500 bucks. It had a OEM hard top. They sold it. So he is into it for like nothing. And it's a kind of nice car.

Yeah, yeah.

But like it's on the path.

That's another good, that's another acceptable convertible,

good looking convertible. That's ano, that's a car that in like three years, he's just gonna sell it for like. Like a pizza, because it's gonna be like, yeah, every bushing will be blown out. The transmission won't work. All the seats will be ripped. The steering wheel will have fucking holes in it, and it'll just be like, smoked. And you'll just be like, well, the kid down the block said he'll buy it. You know, like that's where it'll go.

The only car that my parents ever sold that they didn't have to pay a a junk company to come get it and tow it off the property is the My mom's Z,

which got totaled

because. We bought it off of them and I forced my parents to sell it to me. Like that's it. Yeah. Actually it's not totaled the guy, they fixed it. It now has like, what's the later engine? Whatever came in the Gs. Wait, didn't,

didn't your mom get in like a horrifically

bad accident with that? No, that, that was her second Z.

Oh, okay.

So she missed the Z so much that she went and bought a low mileage, 40,000 mile cream Puff Z. Oh, okay. And then got T-boned in it. Oh, okay. And okay. I mean it was, it was horrible. Yeah. I mean I've, yeah,

Jeff, Jeff Stoneback bought the other one.

Jeff Stone, well actually no Hurt. Bought the other one and never paid me for it, and never paid my parents for it. And then gave it to Jeff Stoneback and then I had to go chase Jeff Stoneback down for it. And then Jeff had never paid us for it. And then Jeff had sold it to someone else. And then finally Jeff paid my parents for it. I

love that. That's

so my parents finally got paid for it. But um. When we were at the, uh, when we were at eTown for Drifter, my parents were there and someone came up to us and was like, my buddy has your car to my mom. And was like, yeah, he's got it now. And it's got, I guess, the VK 37 because they put a G 37 engine in it. Yeah. All

right.

Yeah, so thing lives on, it's still still crushing, still a drift car. That's incredible. And the club Loose Boys. But yeah, I love it. So, but no, but I, I bring that up because I think when I look at cars, I like the concept of selling 'em just doesn't exist. I never think like, oh, I could get my money back out of them. I mean, I tell Ashley that, so like, she justifies it, but like in my real, like in my heart of hearts,

yeah.

I'm not going, oh yeah, I'm gonna sell this one day and make money.

Yeah.

That makes, I've, I've, I only have lost money on daily drivers.

I think for me,

every other car I've made money back on.

So, yeah, I think it was just, 'cause for me, I like made such shit money my entire life until the last like, I don't know, 10 years or so. Maybe less. Yeah. 5, 6, 7, I don't know. Um, but I was always like punching above my weight class with cars. Like I worked at SK speed making 8 25 an hour and I had a oh five STI. Right. That shit was cool.

Yeah.

You know, and I, so, 'cause it was always like, I would just like trade my way up and stuff. So I think that just like stuck with me in that if you want to continue to have cool stuff, like you gotta get rid of shit. Yeah. Like, you gotta like, you gotta like get to a point and then like cut it off and move on.

Yeah. I think I went to, for me, I got this card such a good deal and I, I didn't know they were gonna explode. I didn't know that the entire nine 11 market was gonna shift and it was gonna become like this icon of cool, but now like, I love it so much, but I, I wouldn't, I would never be able to. Spend what it was worth, what it's worth to buy it now. And it, it's actually ruined the car for me because I would drive it way more. I would, I would drive it way more, but it's now so irreplaceable because of what it would cost for.

But see, this is, this is what I always, I have it in short. I always counter argue that because your car is the perfect car to drive and enjoy, if you have it properly insured, this car can get ran over by a fucking dump truck and then you could rebuild it and it doesn't matter because Interesting. It's already had the roof cut off. It's already been fully repainted. All the panels have been cut. Nothing is original. So like you're not saving it from anything.

Right. Like

the

person who wants this card doesn't care.

Yeah. Or you like, I don't care. The originality is gone. 'cause some of the guys, like I always said, I don't really like, and why I kind of hated my GT three RS in some ways is 'cause it's like. Pure, you know? Got it. Like if you, if someone crashes into it now, it's like now your whole side car's repainted. It's a whole thing. Like this is already fucked with like, you should drive this scene. Mine's already been molested. Like it doesn't matter. It's already got childhood trauma. That should be freedom. You know? Like, you like my 360? I just got it repainted. Dude, I was following you on the freeway for the shot and I was like, one inch off your bumper. And I'm like, I don't give a fuck about this paint job. I don't care about anything. Like it's all aftermarket. If it gets repainted again, like who cares?

Yeah.

So like I think that there's a lot of freedom in the RWB because that thing's so fucking cool. You should drive it every day.

I know,

I know. It's so sick.

And ensuring it's not fun.

No. Yeah. Insurance is expensive.

It's crazy what, what they asked for. So, I mean, look, and I realize these are, these are like really nice problems to, but

you know what, you're, you're that guy. So we'll wait until nine elevens are no longer cool.

And then I'll

drive

every day and then you'll start driving. It'll drop down. Like, guys, I've great news. Yeah. My nine elevens only worth 40 grand. I'm gonna to street drive it and park it in

front of my house every day. It's not even, because it's not even the value. It's just gonna be, guys, guess what? Nine elevens are fucking lame.

Yeah.

Like universally known. They

are,

the rappers are saying they're the, they're

the Pontiac Aztec,

and all of a sudden you're like, I love this car so much. You have it as your fucking, you're MySpace background and like you have a shirt with it on it and stuff. Like, you'll be so into it once everyone else thinks it's lame.

Fuck, I wish you were.

Yeah.

Anyway,

on that note, I did bring a really special car here for your Patreon page.

We'll do a little walk around on it,

do a little walk around

it. So I, I wanted to ask you a question before, but I wanted to let the Tim talk a little bit more. So your, your original nine 11, which was an sc

Yeah.

Right. What year was that?

80.

In 80. Your Volkswagen Golf, which is a VR six is faster than the sc.

Yeah.

What car is a better experience?

Easy. Nine 11.

Even though it was slower.

Yeah,

yeah,

yeah. The GTI is is weird to me. And I think about this all the time when I'm driving it. It's really cool for nostalgia, but it's not that good. And I don't know if it's like, honestly just the interior ergonomics, like the seat sits high, the shifting's really low, like it's a little bizarre. Uh, solid rear axle sucks.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I don't know, just something about it. Like I love the GTI. It's cool. That's a car I'll never sell because it's not really worth shit. But, uh. I don't know. The nine 11 felt more fun.

I only asked that because before you were just talking about how like the older nine elevens aren't fun and a lot of the reasons they're not fun is 'cause they just have like no power in

that matter. Oh, see, I meant to, I meant to say on that, like, I actually don't care about the power. Okay. I just felt like stock ones, they just felt like sloppy and bode and like

Right. Okay, okay.

They just didn't feel like they didn't ooze personality. It just felt like a Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

Thing. And mine was like in good shape too. But

I mean, like, I was like, you know, and I, I, I wonder if like, we're now rounding to the end of this episode and hopefully it makes sense to people, but like, I, I was trying to think while you guys are talking about like, what are my three favorite things about the nine 11, not just Porsche's. 'cause like, Porsche's, like a 9 44 is a completely different experience, like of nine elevens. Is that, I realize so much of it is ergonomic. So much of it is the driver position in the car.

Yeah. I was gonna say like if I had to list out the three best things, it's like. Driver perspective and ergonomics, exterior aesthetics and just driving experience. Like,

yeah,

I don't care who you are. Like, you can't say you don't like nine elevens 'cause of the way they look at all. Like you park a fucking nine 11 in your driveway and you just look at it. It's beautiful. Yeah. They're pretty, from a, from a bullshit base model all the way up to the top. Like they're sick.

Yep.

Yeah.

Even a 9, 9, 6, when you're looking at it from behind.

I love a nine. A 9, 9 62. Yeah. I'll take a 99 with drive by wire and a factory. Limited slip, I mean, drive by cable and factory limited slip all day. I don't give a shit. They're sick.

The turbos look really good.

Turbos are super nice.

Yeah, they look really good.

Yeah.

I, for me it's the, the glass house. I mentioned this before. There's something about just how small the A pillar is, especially in an air. Cool. Yeah. Right. It just feels like it's not there. Right. I've never been in a car that feels as small inside. Yeah. Which makes it feel like a cockpit.

Yeah.

Right. Like people joke about how small my rabbit is, my rabbit feels spacious. I, it's like the being inside of a box.

Yeah.

This thing just feels like it's all about me. And just that this, I've never felt steering the way a nine 11 steers. Right. And like, you wanna call it turn in or whatever it is, but just like the way that that grip's under braking, like that just feels really unique. And the last one, which I is like, I think like, look, they just drive great, like they, they, there's a point and shoot element to the or point and squirt element to them of like if you're, if you're okay with the car sliding a little bit, like you just kind of steer where you need to go. Yeah. Right. But the other part of it to me like is it may just be. Like a mental thing, but there's something about being like the engine feeling like it's pushing from behind. I can't explain it. 'cause the front gets light under acceleration. Yeah.

It's so cool

in a way that like a normal car doesn't that, like the term scoot like really applies to a nine 11. Like when people are like, oh is your nine 11 fast? I'm like, it fucking scoops.

It does scoot

it like scoops.

It puts it, it puts the butt under.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it just, ugh. Like it likes, it's a big thrust from behind and it's like there it

pushes power. Like a dog scraping its butt on grass.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it doesn't, it's something that just, I don't know, it just makes it, it makes it special.

I'll say other things, other in

the shape.

Other thing that's really cool about Porsche, at least in the GT car world, I don't really care that much about like the base carreras as we get newer. 'cause they just become like luxury cars. But in the GT car world from 9 9 6 to 9 9 2, they didn't really get that fat. Like they got heavier. 'cause you got technology, but they're not real like. An M two or an M three, we could talk about M three went from being, you know, 3000 pounds to 40 some 4,500 pounds.

The current M three is the size of my se.

Yeah. Whereas like the nine 11 got big, but they still kept it pretty light. You know, like them and Subaru. 'cause like the STI made 300 horsepower out of a four cylinder turbo from oh four till now or whenever they killed it. Right. And then like the nine 11, the GT three is like the same. Like na flat six, barely gained weight over the years, like just got bigger. Like I respect that. That's cool that Porsche did that. Yeah.

I would admit, like I'm a little bit of a hater on how big the car has got.

Yeah. '

cause I just feel like the, there's something about a small car footprint that makes it more fun on roads, but you get to take up less of the road.

Yes. My friend, uh, especially

on canyons,

Nikita and I were like driving through canyons. Yeah. We did a couple tight canyons. He had a 9 9 2 manual and he was like, he's like, dude, I can't even drive this car on this road. It's so big.

Yeah.

But if you get inside of it, you'll still feel like you're 9 6 4. Yeah. Like, it still feels like tight and intimate and like, but not in a claustrophobic way. It still feels like small and like proper on the inside. Yeah. It's just everything on the outside. Got like,

so let, let, let's end on this because I think we've, we've talked about why we love nine elevens. We've kind of shit talked people who've got into them just for the, the trendiness of it. But I think we we're generally kind. Why do you think nine 11. Became so cool. Like what do you think it is that attracts everybody else too?

I think it's a general coolness that we all looked at already, so it's from Magnus to LT RWB. Like it's the trifecta of things being cool and then people being, the thing is that it's based on undeniable. Cool.

But do you think this could have happened to any other mark?

No, no, no. That's what I was saying, like it's, it's, the base is undeniable. Cool. The nine 11 was cool and then it was amplified into the mainstream. It's not like saying, you know, the, the Scion FRS is now cool. It's like, well that's only based on like if influencers tell you it's cool,

right?

Which means nothing. But like the nine 11 had racing pedigree, right? It had everything and then it was like brought to the mainstream attention of like, oh, this is actually sick. And it's beautiful, right? And it's fun to drive and it looks good, blah, blah blah. You know? So like I feel like it's like the trickle down.

No, I just think it's an interesting thing of like, I don't know if any other mark could have become what Porsche has become in the past 15 years. And look, I'm not gonna say that there hasn't always been a cool around Porsches. There was a hyper cool around Porsches in the seventies, but a lot of people don't realize the reason the 9 44 came out is because in the eighties to the Wall Street crowd, the nine 11 felt old and was your dad's car like they already lost Cool there. Yeah. And honestly, they didn't really gain it back, I think until the Magnus Walker singer, R WB era. Yeah. Like not saying that it wasn't cool. There's obviously a ton of motor sports history throughout the nineties, and I think to that core like motor sports fan. Who's listening to this, they're like, I dunno what the fuck you're talking about. Porsche's always been peak, right? Yeah. But when you look at it from a cultural reference, like yeah, you had bad boys. Like Bad boys made a nine. Like, that was like nine 11 Turbo really cool in that movie, right? The original one.

Yeah.

Um, and there was other elements of it, but I, I think now it's like, it's such a part of culture that it has like, well transcended us.

Yeah.

Like it is well beyond us. And like every cool person, you know, either has one or knows of one. You don't have to be a car guy to be into them. They're part of fashion. You and I are both into architecture. How often do you see a photo of a house and there's a vintage nine 11 in the driveway.

The, my SC just got a job. It was, uh, used for placement in an ad for this beautiful mid-century home in Pasadena.

Yeah. Like, I mean, and, and I think that those fit there because those cars, I think that's the aesthetic element of it.

Yeah.

Like if the nine 11 looked different, I don't, maybe it wouldn't land as well if the nine 11 was the 9 44. I don't think people would much,

which is funny 'cause like it pairs with mid-century so Well, but it's not mid-century at all.

No,

I mean sixties. No, it is the

sixties.

Sixties, yeah. Yeah. But I mean, like the cars they're using aren't all sixties. Nine 11 es or nine twelves or like

Yeah, like long noses.

Yeah. Like

canary yellow.

So they'll be using like eighties cars like mine. And you're like,

but I think that's because

it, it

modern stayed the, some is such a thing about minimalistic design. Mm-hmm. And the nine 11 is a minimalistic silhouette.

Yeah.

Right. That's true. Like if you think about what makes, like, what was the, what was the Ferrari or the Lamborghini you were talking about earlier? Some crazy new Lambo that's like, oh,

the. Thing.

Yeah. Whatever. Or some new McLaren or whatever like it, they're, they are pushed to the extreme.

Yeah.

Like they look absolutely. Extremely.

Yeah. Even

our three

sixties like look pretty crazy in comparison to like a nine 11.

Yeah. And nine 11, just like simple silhouette. It's the Eames chair of cars. This is now like the third time I've e I've Eames dropped on this show. People who know, know.

Yeah.

Um, I mean, and I'm like, by the way I'm saying Eames 'cause I want more people to understand if you're sitting there going, that is so pedestrian of me. We only have one Eames chair in the house. The rest of 'em, you wouldn't know the designer,

but that Okay. They

Scandinavians.

But that's a, that's the thing though, is like, I think the nine 11 is like the Eames chair because honestly, Eames share was really cool a couple years ago, and now you like see 'em in everyone's houses. Even if they live in like a stucco box.

Right.

That's not,

they've got like a Spanish revival and they have an Eames chair.

Yeah. And you're like, that doesn't make sense here. Yeah. And it, it's like that's why the nine 11 doesn't make sense in a lot of people's garages. It's like, you don't fit the mold to have this, but you bought it because, you know, it's cool. That's the Eames chair.

Yeah, I get that.

Yeah, that means that's it. The nine 11 is the Eames chair of the automotive community. It

took us about two hours. We've landed here. The nine 11 is the Eames chair, and do you know what that means? Is that the

pod is over,

baby? The pod's over, but the Eames chair is still comfortable. The nine 11 is still a fantastic car. Whether or not you think it is trending out, and if you'd like to listen to more about rail car, I'll talk about it on the podcast.

I support that statement.

The mailbox. The mailbox, the mailbox. Cannot accept any messages at this time. Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye.

Hey, look, it's okay if you don't actually wrench on cars. You don't need to feel left out. You can still have Vyper Industrial in your life, for example. Pick up a creeper. Use it for covert naps. Got a problem with all the clothes on the floor. Their robust stool makes the perfect wardrobe. It's also really good for downhill racing. Got guests coming over tonight. Roll out the tool cart to serve up a decade in spread of charcuterie. Paired with a side of fine libations, stressed out at work. Use the Turbo fan for a little white noise guided Zen meditation. Or take your fancy sim to the next level. Adding Molson straight grade wind speeds direct to the face. Interested. Head on over to Vyper industrial.com. That's Vyper with a Y 'cause. Why not? Of all the sunglass companies out there, you might ask why Heat Wave? Aside from them being friends of mine, they just make great shades, awesome styles, cool collabs, smart tech. They even have extra large sizes for big heads like me. And for those of you wearing this on the job, they make ANSI Z eight seven spec safety glasses too. But what really attracts me to Heat Wave is that they are physically a part of our culture. You'll find them everywhere from King of the Hammers to formula drift. You'll see everyone wearing Heat Waves at your local track day. Damn. You might even turn laps with the co-founder Justin, because they're one of us. So one more reason to choose Heat Wave visual to fix your face. I'm a tool dork. My obsession might even dwarf my addiction to cars. I love collecting unique and specialty tools, which is how I initially fell in love with Wera. First off, they just make aesthetically pleasing tools. They feel good in your hand. They have a great finish. Their sizes are universally color coded, and they are super strong. In two decades, I've never broken a tool from Ware. I wish I could say the same about my other tools, but the thing I like the most about RA is that they create clever solutions for your wrenching woes. Because you need over-engineered tools to work on today's over-engineered cars. So if you're ready to step up your tool game, whether it's the Xop Ratchet or the Joker wrenches, find 'em at wear are tools.com.

What makes the Porsche 911 so cool? Betim, Vinny and Scotto debate why the 911 is so special. VV010

About this episode

Request an Explanation

Want to learn more?

Help improve this episode

More from Very Vehicular