Whose Fault?; EV Moto Opinion Change; Q&A

What up, everybody? Welcome to the Smogentire Podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by Off the Record. We love Off the Record because they make it easy to beat the system. If you get pulled over for a moving violation in any of the 50 states in the United States, you don't plead guilty, you get off the record. You go to OfftheRecord.com, slash TST. There you fill out some basic information about what happened,

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Get you 10% off all legal services that you book through off the record. Do it. On this episode, we are back from our 4th of July break. I have been riding the Can Am Pulse Electric motorcycle, and I've been reading Adrian Nui's book How to Build a Car. Plus, Zach and I review some crash footage of the Nurburgring. See if we can assign some blame.

And talk about scooters a lot. Plus a bunch of questions from our lovely Patreon over at patreon.com slash the smoking tire podcast. Let's do it.

Without it being like a chant, when it's spoken, it loses all of its power. I needed to be like, it has to be like, done like the commercial. We are.

Right. I'm giving it a free ed. I'm going to pay it over here. You remember all the designers of cars. I'll remember the jingles and we got it all covered. We want to all mini-tunes. I believe you called them commercials.

What is that for? Demolition man. In the future. Demolition man. Commercial jingles bar. That is music. That's music. That's right. Yeah. Which by the way, I don't know how many music videos you've seen recently, but the two are the two are rapidly merging.

Every time I hear like a party song, I remember when little john came out with shots shots and how bars would respond. Like people at bars would go by shots. And I was like, and now if I hear that kind of attitude in a song, I go, this is, is this paid for by big liquor to just get people to go to the bar.

I can't say definitively that there was like no product placement in the nothing but a gfang video, for instance, or the smells like teen spirit video, but like I'm pretty sure Kurt's flannel and Dre's low rider were not sponsored in those videos.

New genres, so I bet companies were very cautious first. And now, but there was there. Okay, but like, let's call it the greatest hair metal video of all time, Pepsi and Bon Jovi is what we're asking, I think.

Yeah, he had a video where he's like, Oh, and it's label out and he sips the coke. He might have done a commercial, but it never would have been in the video. No, I know you're saying like right now.

Well, I think didn't I didn't we talk on a recent show about the four seconds of non-continuous product placement? Yeah.

Was product placement in 80s videos? I'm sure there's an example of it somewhere, but it's got to be much, much less.

Let's see. Well, this random website, who knows if they're right says it goes back to the early 80s, but it's definitely accelerated.

Anyway, hi everybody. Welcome into the show after the 4th of July, Zach, Zach went to Colorado family time. I stayed here. Wife time didn't do much.

4th of July was fabulously mellow in Los Angeles. The number of fireworks were substantially reduced last year, which was last year was fucking a war zone.

This I attributed to two things. I think one may be wildfire awareness. Maybe people were like, Oh, remember what just happened.

Yeah, better not because there was lots of fireworks, but substantial drop in mortars. Right. So I think they're also more expensive. My barber.

Oh, I was talking about it. I don't know if it's that, but he said a mortar used to be 150 bucks. And him and his brother would like his two brothers, they'd share it. They'd all thrown 50 and they get one big mortar.

And he's like, now they're 300. It's all black market for in Los Angeles, you know, people.

Someone has a shrink flation story about fireworks, please. I guess inflation tariff danger. I don't know what it is, but they've doubled in price over time.

And so maybe that's hurting people. I mean, the kids that make them charge more.

I think a lot of them are made. Well, there's a lot of US firework companies. And if you, if you ever go on Google Earth and look at their facility,

it's a big building surrounded by huge berm just in case. Yeah, yeah.

150 to 300 per shell. Yeah, he said per mortars 300 bucks. I haven't bought mortars in 15 years, but there were nothing like that.

These were, I think these are the big ones. These aren't the little like boom. This is.

I mean, the ones I was buying back in the day had probably, you know, a two inch tube.

Is that what are you talking about? Are you talking about a four, six inch tube?

He didn't whip it out, but I think he was inferring that it was the big professional stuff that shakes the ground.

Okay, well, yeah, there was a lot less of those. I think wildfire was, and I think I think possibly the Hispanic population was keeping a lower profile than normal,

and not lighting off a bunch of fireworks in the neighborhood as they may have done in the past.

That's a guess. But the city was pretty empty. Like traffic was the life.

Denver was going off because we, I was at a red rock show during 4th of July, and our seats were high.

If you could see beyond the stage to downtown, and it was, it looked like a smaller version of LA.

Wow. That must be what a nice day to see a show at the theater.

If that's your like, yeah, that's an extra special background. They planned the viewpoint.

Yeah. And it was like blues traveler.

It was spin doctors, then gin blossoms, then blues traveler. Nice. Yeah.

Who was, did anyone still have it? I think spin doctors sounded exactly like they do on the album, and their lead singer is like, he's friendly charismatic.

What the fuck is that guy's name Chris Barron? Yes. That guy was like great on Twitter when Twitter was fun.

Oh, really? When Twitter was fun, that dude's Twitter ruled. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He does, he was good. Jim Blossom is not really my sound, but I also think their bassist might have been unplugged by accident, or the sound mix just in it.

All their guitars and the guy's voice are very high pitched. Like it's kind of tinny. It is a high pitch.

And I couldn't hear the bass that might have been part of it. And I texted Christian James Handlater, and I was like, what do you think of the gin blossoms?

He likes the gin. He said their first album is near perfect. He and I are very pro new miserable experience.

New miserable experience is an exceptional album. I think I need to listen to the album mix and maybe I'll come around on it.

I mean, it's all the time. If you don't like that type of music, you're not going to start liking it now.

But it is a really good album that if you do like that kind of music, it's a start to finish record. For a band's first record, it's amazing.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Big famous. And then in Blues Traveler, we're good when they were good, but I think I texted you.

I think John Popper had some health issues. And like literally he had a health issue a few months ago.

And then on stage, he thanked the local hospital, and then he kept alluding to something.

He's like, we barely made it here today. I want to thank doctors and the lawyers and everybody, like the team that came together to make it happen.

And everyone's like, what happened? And he won't tell us what's the thing?

So there was a big thing. I get it, you don't want to go into it, but something happened that definitely impacted his health and his ability to perform consecutive songs.

Hook is played that last. Possibly the funniest and best rock song ever written.

It is trolling. Lyrically, I think possibly the best rock song ever written. And if you don't know, go act somebody while that song is so fucking good.

When Christian and I were doing, I think he has, Christian has a breakdown of it that exists somewhere that probably can't be shared for legal reasons.

And he and I did one in the studio during COVID on Instagram. And it was so fun. Hook is such a fucking perfect song. I hope John Popper is OK.

Yeah, me too. This is the first date of their doing. They're all touring together for a while. So this is what it is.

Does it have a cheeky name of a festival?

The middle age middle. I mean, who played first and who played last?

And was that considered?

It was been doctors Jim Blossom's then Blues Traveler. Do you think it'll be that every night? You think they'll rotate?

I don't know because Blues Travel, I guess, has played Red Rocks on 4th of July for like 20 years.

So that's their headline show, but as they tour, maybe they'll rotate. I don't know.

Copy.

Yeah. Right on. Well, over the weekend, I did two things, really. It was pretty slow and mellow, which was great.

I read a bunch. I finished Adrian Nui's How to Build a Car, which I read like the first few chapters of like a year ago.

And then it's a big, thick, heavy, it's like a textbook. It isn't, but it feels like one in your hands.

And I went on some trip and I was like, I'm not carrying this to Europe and I just forgot about it.

So I finished that, which is an amazing book and everyone should read it. You should read it.

How about it? Yeah.

And you don't have to understand much about engineering to like it, although it helps if you do understand some like fairly basic engineering concepts.

And it's really not like, it's called How to Build a Car. It's his autobiography up until about, I don't know, the year like maybe 2018 or 2019.

Wow.

And so obviously some things have happened since then. So it's not complete, but it's, it's each chapter, it's like how to build a, whatever the car was, he was building during the period of this of his life.

Got it.

And it's a pretty cool way to like categorize your whole life because it's like, here's the challenges I was having at work.

And like here's how those challenges at work, like rolled into my like personal life also.

And like they always did like everything in his personal life was like kind of like this reflection of like what was happening at work.

Wow.

And so, you know, each chapter, it's how to build a, you know, the McLaren, whatever this, how to build a Williams FW this, how to build this.

So it's a great book.

Got it.

He joined Red Bull in 06.

Yeah.

So it's like half or more than half of his, it covers more than half of his Red Bull time as well.

Oh, yeah.

It covers like almost all of the Red Bull time up. And I mean, I think, I mean, it's, yeah, cool.

I think it's, it's still, it holds up even though it was written a few years ago.

Definitely recommend that.

And I wrote that thing.

The Can Am Pulse.

So we talked a little bit about it last show.

Briefly.

So how has your extended time been?

Okay.

Could you make it to Malibu in back?

Yes.

Okay.

I could.

Now, it's the, okay, I made it when I left the house full charge.

I, it said 48 miles to empty indicated on the gauge.

The funny thing about this is they advertise this as a 100 mile range.

So already, you know, I guess starting because I'm fat, right?

So the problem with electric motorcycles, specifically electric motorcycles versus electric cars, or any other thing,

is the weight, size, and shape of the rider matters so much in terms of aerodynamic efficiency.

So if you could get 100 miles out of this thing at the very perfect speed, which I think I found,

the most efficient speed.

If you had the most efficient rider in the most efficient clothing, you know, full leathers and like a...

A jockey.

You need a jockey.

I think it is possible to get this thing to go 100 miles.

I wish I knew this, but if you, let's say the jockey is 130 pounds, if you double the weight of the rider,

do you cut the range in half?

Like, is that the mathematical formula?

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I don't know.

And there was nothing on the bike to indicate that it has some kind of a weight sensor on it.

No, no, just like I'm wondering if someone's listening, put in the comments, like physics wise, if you double the weight of the cargo on this motorcycle.

And it depends on the efficiency of a motorcycle and tires and all that shit.

But it seems like when you're accelerating the weight matters.

When you're going at sustained speed, the aerodynamics matter more than the weight.

So it depends on the answer to your question lies in what kind of riding are you doing?

So anyway, here's the story.

I woke up with 48 miles on a full charge indicated.

From my house to the country, mart is 22 miles, 22.0, exactly.

And as I, it's about a mile or so from my house to the highway.

It's, you know, I don't want to be too specific, but it's like between eight and 10 miles on the highway.

And the remainder of it is on the Pacific Coast Highway, which as of right now is limited and heavily enforced

at a 35 mile an hour speed limit and heavily enforced.

I must have seen 25 CHPs out there.

Now they will let you get away with 40, especially if you're on a silent motorcycle.

And you smile and you wave.

40 seems acceptable, but there's other places.

You know, it's actually, it really makes you realize because the full lanes are open.

But some of the shoulders are closed.

Obviously there's everyone staring at the burned out structures because they're tourists and whatever.

But it really, it really blows up any arguments that you really have to go faster on PCH,

because at a really constant 35, like it takes the same amount of time.

So once you get to PCH, you're holding 3540.

So on the gauge cluster, which if you click over a couple of, I think the very second and last slide on this Instagram here,

that's a different, that's not the actual screen you see wall writing.

That's a screen I just pulled up to show the screen wall writing on the right side of it shows a miles per kilowatt hour.

So this thing has an 8.9 kilowatt hour battery and it weighs 340 pounds.

And I am at a svelte for me 260 pounds.

So at writing around town, I'm seeing like five miles to kilowatt hours, which means like 45 mile range,

which is how I had been riding the bike around LA light to light.

When I get to the highway, I'm seeing like between five and seven.

So like, okay, maybe.

And then on the on PCH at like 35 to 40, pretty constant, I'm seeing like 10.

Right. So if, if I were somehow able to just pull out of my driveway and go 35 miles an hour exactly,

I could probably get this thing to like 85 miles.

Right. Okay. So that's the, that's the magic speed is before arrow really comes into play.

Yes. But above where your weight inhibits your acceleration from a dick.

It's just less efficient at low speed. Okay.

That's interesting. I wonder if that, that's how they calculate these things.

I mean, they, they, I don't know how the EPA if, because, because I don't think motorcycles have fuel efficiency ratings,

they certainly have most don't have any kind of emissions controls really at all.

So I don't know if there's a standard. It's just on their website. It just says range, whatever 100 miles.

So, okay. So that's the range bit.

So I was able to get to, and if you show that screen, that last screen on Instagram there is, is when I plugged it in when I got back to my house.

So when I got back to my house after riding 44 miles on a couple miles of surface streets, about, and then about, you know, 40% high, 20% surface street, 40% highway, 40% PCH.

I ended up at 25% battery with 14 miles remaining. So that means in theory, I could get 66 miles riding like that.

Which is not 100.

And, and, and I certainly wasn't riding in a particularly sporty manner.

I never exceeded 75 on the highway. And I really was not goosing it except for maybe once or twice.

So, you know, it's great for like running around short distances, right?

So it rides really nicely, actually. It feels lighter than 340 pounds would suggest.

I was surprised when I saw that number. I would have thought it was something that started with the two.

It has this really cool feature where you twist the throttle forward away from you, which applies regen as a break.

Yeah. Like it has, it has a three setting like auto regen. So when you lift the throttle, no one lower high, right?

But then it's like extra regen if you twist the throttle forward, which does line up with your inertia when you're breaking.

But if you use that as like your brakes, you can extend the range, you know, meaningfully in the city.

I think that's very cool. I think that's a fun use of electricity.

And just the suspension isn't like super sporty, but it's firm. It's great.

I think for running around locally, it's fun. I hope they have a good cargo box option because it would actually, after a couple of days riding it, I was like,

oh, I would probably swap the Vespa for this. I could get as far as I need to go. And then I looked up the price.

And it's like $13,500.

Yeah.

And the problem is I keep trying these electric things and I keep going, oh, these things would be great in the city.

But the value proposition is just never there. No, it's never even close.

That's a lot of money. You can get a lot of motorcycle. You can get a lot of new motorcycle for that money, right?

And then if you get the use market, even a little bit, like, do you get a monster for?

Exactly.

Within a thousand dollars of, excuse me, a monster within a thousand dollars cheaper than this.

Yeah. So that's what I'm saying. You can get so much of our complaints with new cars is like, oh, the sound goes away because the engines are getting smaller.

But like, you can get a Ducati, which sounds amazing, I think.

Like, you can get a lot of different musical notes and have that experience and it costs you less money and the gas is so cheap.

The problem with electric motorcycles is that even the highest performance electric gas motorcycles are still very efficient.

And they're not only very efficient in fuel economy. They're very efficient in performance.

They're very, they're, they're assuming you're not worried about the safety aspect of a motorcycle versus a car.

The amount of performance, the amount of efficiency and the amount of practicality you get out of any gas powered motorcycle is absurdly good compared to any gas powered car.

And motorcycles are cheap. Great motorcycles are cheap.

And so, and if you're talking about urban practicality, my Vespa 300 smokes everything.

Everything. Two cargo boxes, 70 miles a gallon, highway speeds, ABS traction control, a water cooled engine, USB ports.

Dude. Yeah.

My Vespa is going to cost me over the life of it. I guarantee my Vespa cost me less than a thousand dollars.

Ducati hypermotard starts at 13. Yeah.

And choose your upright sitting, you know, non-race replica motorcycle and they're all around that price.

Yeah. And the range is much further. Yeah.

It's, it's, it's a bummer because what sucks is it's the electric motorcycles are really fun.

Like, if, if, if, if, if, if my Vespa is like, you know, flying a little piper cub airplane and a, and a Ducati is like flying a fighter jet, this is like flying a glider.

It's, it's just like that's rad. Yeah.

And being able to do something different with the electricity, with the invert, the regen controller on the throttle, like, that's really fun.

That big, that big display can do full car play. So like, that display, I didn't, I didn't do it because I don't didn't give a shit enough.

But like, you can make a full, like, ways or display on that, which is pretty helpful while, while driving.

Did you write it at night at all? Was it? Yeah.

Was the display at all distracting? No, it flips. Oh, okay. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's still a black display, but it's, it's pretty, the black is pretty black.

Okay. I didn't find it to be probably listening. It's wide. I mean, that's like, was it seven inch wide screen? Yeah, it's like an iPad mini.

That basically, that screen looks almost as big as the one on like the Mazda CX 50 or, you know, Mazda has like those narrow screens on the top of the dash like that.

Yeah. But honestly, I find the overall experience of riding it to be extremely pleasant. Like, if there were, you know, not, not in this administration.

But if there was like tax, you know, tax credits, 2500, 3 grand. This thing was like 89, 89, 99 or something like that.

You know, and the dealer made you like a little bit on the back end. You go, you walk out the door for a grand. I mean, I'm totally in because this thing rips.

Like, it, it does zero to 60 in under four seconds. For sure, it will do wheelies. Absolutely will do wheelies. It go, it, it cruises very comfortably at 85 miles an hour.

It's clearly electronically limited to 85 miles an hour and could go faster. It's very well composed on the highway. Like, generally, it's nice. And like, I don't actually need a motorcycle to go.

Like, this isn't, I wouldn't go hit the canyons in it. It's a run around town thing. Same as my vest, but as long as they make a really good cargo box on the back.

Because it's got to be able to carry shit. I got two bags of groceries or a 12 pack. It's got to be able to go in there. Right. But, excuse me.

But like, I hope they don't like, I hope companies don't give up on this because the value proposition isn't there yet because they're really fun or good time.

It's probably hard because, you know, they have to amortize the cost. Right. So if way more people bought them, maybe cost would come down. Yeah.

But I mean, you can see in the comments a lot of people who probably might ride their, I mean, you know, core rides a lot.

They're just like, these are really expensive. The specs aren't great. You know, I mean, the price of them is really high.

And that hurts to take great because the difference is like, EV cars have usable range.

And you, and you, I think you get something from a lot of EVs that you can't get at that price.

Like a Rivian is as fast as most super cars. Yeah.

At least zero to 60 Ys and, and it handles as good as some super cars from the 90s in early 2000s.

So you get this amazing performance at a lower, Tesla Model 3 performance. Like get all that go. And it also is really convenient thing.

This is like not as fast as a fast motorcycle. Doesn't have great range. Like it has a, it doesn't have a lot of the attributes and EV car gets.

It would, it would be a fantastic commuter tool. Like if I had a commute, like a legit 10, 12 mile commute, this would be great.

Just perfect. Or if you could, you know, you charge at work, whatever.

But it's how, you know, it's, it's a very narrow window of who this thing works for, you know, at that price.

Did you, because you, you've driven a lot of EVs, you've owned EVs. So I think you might be, you're a good person to pitch this to because you go, I like the propulsion.

You know, now if someone's coming into this without having an EV experience, do you think they will miss the sound of a motorcycle engine?

Or is it quiet and is that more relaxing the same way we feel when we get out of an EV versus a nice car?

Yeah, like I'm saying, like it's like flying a glider. Like I would hope. And it's probably not true. But I would hope that people are not so set in their ways that they wouldn't be at least willing to try.

A new experience. And like I think that, you know, with motorcycles, people who like motorcycles, often they get a kind of a bunch of them.

You know, they're smaller, they're a little less expensive. You can fit four or five of them in the space of a car. And so if you only like Harleys, are you only like Ducati's, are you only like a specific type of thing?

Like, okay, but like the people that I know who collect motorcycles tend to go a little of this, little of that, little of that. It's an opportunity to have each motorcycle for what your mood is.

And like I think those kind of people that have five or six bikes would find a good use for, you know, electric bike.

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So that's a question that I want to know. What's the charging situation? Like do you have a plug that you carry around with you? No. So it is a.

Sorry, one second. There's none of those things were that important. But also when I went down there, a person was delivering a car. So brick and mortar folks, brick and mortar.

But that was not algorithmic. It didn't the algorithm didn't feed me that car because of my previous tastes. A customer who paid just dropped it. Oh, right. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.

I just ran up and down the stairs twice. So forgive me. The charging question. So okay, charging. If you flip back to the photo that shows the right side of the bike.

Other side there. Okay. You'll see above the yellow bit at the bottom, basically right where my right hamstring would be. There's a door. There's a little door. Yeah. And actually now that you mention it, my only real gripe with this bike from a quality perspective is that door.

It's very much the kind of plastic that you would find on like the cubby for like a razor or something. And considering how often you have to charge this bike, which is basically every single time you use it.

I think that door is a little chinsy and that may become problematic. It'll get loser and loser. Yeah, because it's just like a plastic little pop tap.

It's a little pressure. Yeah. It's not an actual latch. It's just a little tab. And I'm like, that's, I don't know how long that's lasting, but probably not long enough.

So that pulls up the, what you would call the level two charger, destination CCS chart, not CCS.

J 117, whatever, my, my Porsche Taycan's home charger fits into that. Got it. And then it takes about 90 minutes to charge from like 15% to full, which is not quite as fast as I'd like.

It's not. So if you're out for a ride and you, you got to plan this charging stop. Like you got to have lunch. It's not like there's no, and there's no DC fast charger. You can't, you can't plug into a DC.

So the onboard charger for the bike is not that fast. The live wire, I think, has a more powerful onboard charger, but it's also heavier and more expensive.

So you really, if you buy one of these, you really want to have like an out and back situation, like charge at home, go for ride.

Well, look, here's the, here's the thing you could do. If you had, for instance, you can probably order from can am like a portable charger.

And if you, I don't know, depending on your commuting situation, you could get like a level one portable charger for like your office and plug it in while you're at work on a level one.

And that would give you enough range to get back home. If your commute was like 30 or 40 miles.

If your commute's 30, 40 miles, this is not the motorcycle for you. By the way, there's no fairing. There's no windshield. If you're riding fucking 80 miles a day, you should have a windshield on your motorcycle.

Otherwise, like what's wrong with you? But so anyway, that's the charging situation. You do not, at least as far to my understanding, there isn't a cable that you carry around with you.

And there really isn't in the photo on top of what I mean, I guess looks like a fuel tank, but it's not a fuel tank. On top of that, you can see there's like a pop up cover.

In that is like a cubby that would basically fit the bike registration, your phone, and your wallet. Like, and that's pretty much all. Maybe a pair of sunglasses, but you're not fitting a charge cable in there.

Well, it looks like I'm on the website and the only charger they reference or have a link to is to install in your home through a company called wall box. So there's no like take this with you.

So you can get a big cargo box.

Yeah, but you could also, I mean, you can buy on Amazon if you want, like, like, I hate to like plug Amazon, but you can get a you can get a generic but quality level one home charger.

Just like a generic but quality level to home charger, like what I have, like I mine is like, fuck what is mine? I can't remember what it is, but it's like a fairly high end, but like not automated with automaker got it.

You know, when I literally ordered on Amazon. Yeah, oh cool. Oh, the top holy shit. So that's a God that's nuts. So the problem with that is you can't kick your leg over that.

Like, you have to stand on the peg and then and then stand and you know what I mean? Like a horse you'd step through it or step over the seat.

That's a high step. Yeah, without that's a high step without without being able to kick your leg back because that's mounted on where the past quote passenger seat would be.

It's not hanging off the back of that. Yeah, because this this furthest rear part, I don't know how strong that is. That should be like a mud deflection. Yeah.

I mean, really, that just holds your license plate and you're pulling. Nothing comes close to the Vespa when it comes to running errands around town, dude, nothing because the Vespa box is mounted further rear, right?

Yeah, it's mounted aft of the back seat. So you can still have two people in the box and then you have an under seat box also. So like, if I'm not storing groceries and I hate to look and harp about my awesome Vespa, but like it's better at this than everything.

Like, and I got it used for $5,000, like a year old with three digit mileage under warranty. So like, I can took when I go, I have my jacket, my gloves, my sunglasses, my helmet, my gloves and my sunglasses go fit in the cargo box with plenty of room to spare.

And my jacket, one fold fits under the seat and now I'm just wearing normal clothes where I am and everything's locked. Yeah, that's, that's great.

Beat that anybody, anybody beat that without like some giant like chunky shit on the bike that that takes away from your cargo.

Sure, because this thing has this, there's this graphic, yeah, I mean, where, where your storage is in the Vespa is like filled with lithium ion down in here, right? Well, that's where my legs would go on the Vespa.

Yeah, there's a black bit behind here. Yeah, there's the plug too. Yeah, that's where the plug is. Yeah. So, yeah, it's, it's not a very fast charger.

20 to go back, it just said from 20 to 80% in 50 minutes. Like that's not very good. It's not the live wire was faster.

But, but it's like with so many EV things like, all right, you have to plan your ride now. So if you ride a Malibu, you plug it in, you go, I'm going to hang out.

Like, we know you're going to have a coffee, you know, you're going to have lunch, something like that, but you can't go.

I'm just going to keep moving down the five to ride the Santa Cruz as quickly as possible. And look, a lot of people will, a lot of people who complain about not being able to go on a road trip on their motorcycle will never go on a road trip on their motorcycle.

They just want the option. You know what I mean? I really hope they don't give up on these things because they are fun. And I still have it for another like three weeks.

I have this thing for a month. I'm just talking about it now because it was a light weekend. I wrote it a bunch. I did the experiment I wanted to do.

If I couldn't get to Malibu and back, which is a completely reasonable thing to do on any recreational type thing, like 44 fucking miles.

I can't, you know what I mean? I would have been so annoyed if I couldn't have done that. But like, the fact that I was, I was like, all right, cool. Like, I can do that.

Like, I can pretty much get anywhere I need to go in the city. You know, so all right. Cool.

Thank you for letting me have a go, even though I'm going to continue having to go. And by the way, the EV power train in this thing is made by Rotex.

There's Rotex. You can see the branding on it on that page. You just had up had branding on it. But you can see it here too. Actually, it's on the side of the bike right above the yellow bit that white writing says Rotex EV on it.

So like presumably, maybe they'll license the technology or the power trains to other manufacturers.

That might bring cost down a little bit. That'd be cool. Yeah.

Did you see this accident at the number of rings? Everyone's okay? No, but it's really bad. Well, it's it's an interesting crash.

Okay. People are talking about people are talking. So the reason people are discussing it, if there's a Porsche that's making a pass on the left side of an M2.

Okay. Two things about the crash caused a big fireball, which is rare for a new car. Sure.

Again, everyone's all right. But the discussion I'm curious what your take is is who is at fault in this pass on this in this moment?

Okay. And we do and we have good enough coverage. So you think make an accurate. Definitely.

Definitely. Definitely. We've got helmet cam from the Porsche. Okay. Cool.

And so. All right. Let's see. So.

Porsche's going real quick. All right. Coming up on the M2. M2 moves right. Porsche goes by. Oh god. Damn it, dude. That.

Oh, back. Oh, back it up to that. That's a fucking nasty wreck. Yeah. Wow. Full brake caliper. Okay. Yeah. Go. Oh, that's the shot we need.

Because I actually want to see you can see it from that camera. Yeah. Where the M2. Yeah. Okay.

In my opinion, the M2 driver is at fault because look. Look where. Okay. It's where was the Porsche when the M2 started to turn in.

Not quite alongside front of Porsche might be at M2 door. Yeah. But I think M2 driver should have been.

Have seen that Porsche in the side mirrors. Like that's. And that's a skill is paying attention with behind you when you're on a track.

But I feel like they should have known they were there. So here's the thing. It's funny that this accident happened just like this.

This happened to me this not at the Nürburgring at streets of Willow, but this exact thing happened to me. And I was the Porsche. Okay.

In that in that incident. And. And and and it was a regular track day on a regular track. It was not as the video says tourist day at Nürburgring. That's a little different. That's not a track.

So. Rightfully or wrongfully whatever there was no I didn't dispute from the minute it happened. I claimed responsibility for it.

I said that was my fault. It was not clear. Even though it was open passing session. It looked like they were moving right for me to get by.

But they weren't moving right for me to get by. That's kind of just where the line was.

Which I think was what the M2 did. The M2 moved out right. And then people listening. It's a left hand turn. It's a big long one.

But then they start coming in towards the apex. And they push the Porsche up onto the curb. And then it all goes real well.

And I fortunately when it happened to me. The hit was very, very small. And I literally wrote the guy a check and apologize and we walked away friends. I think it cost me a thousand bucks.

And I wrote about it. And this was not a secret. I wrote about it was when I was to the Evora GT five track days and seven days. I did that. Okay. Yeah. And by the way, that was like track day number three. And I kept going. That was a tough mother fucking car.

That car was awesome. But point being what happened was the guy. The guy appeared to be moving right. And because I was so much faster. The other car was in S2000. I had way more horsepower.

I was able. It looked like I was able to get by. But he wasn't lifting. It wasn't he. He wasn't a point by and a lift. It was I was just faster. So I was like, okay, go. But he had no clue.

No clue. I was there. So that's where I that's where I come to the Nürburgring in the Nürburgring even though the overtaking car does have the responsibility to be safe. I think on tourist days.

It's the responsibility for the other car to keep right and to know that faster traffic is approaching. And so it's a little murkier to me on a tourist day.

It's it's a little muddy because, you know, if you go F1 rules, it's like was Porsche alongside enough.

Track day, I would say it's probably the Porsche's fault. But tourist days different from track day.

Tourist days, you're taught explicitly to keep right. You're not taught to run the racing line unless nobody's around. You're supposed to know if

you're approaching from behind and keep fucking right. Yeah. And I, you know, as someone who's done, I haven't done a ton of track stuff, but enough, especially with like lemons, the speed at which this Porsche came up on the car.

Yeah. I know would pop into the rear view mirror filled a view of the M2. Like, it's going to be empty. And then suddenly there's a thing. And it should draw your eye to that moment.

It was, they were there for a minute and you kind of get lulled into this Porsche staying behind me. And then they go for me. This guy was coming up fast.

So I feel like they should have seen that car. I mean, it's just a, it's a bad situation, but it's been.

Yeah, I feel, I feel like here, if I'm in the Porsche, that M2 is, is pretty far to the right. Yeah.

I, I'm in a feel body language, body language of M2 says I'm opening the door for you. I agree. And so it would be a big ass fucking surprise when overcrest, they come down for a late apex. And there you are.

And for people listening, the M2 almost pit maneuvers this Porsche. But from the front.

Oh, no, from the, no, no, from the back. I think it's already forgotten. It's next to him. Oh, no, he hits the back. He hits the rear fender.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they both get sent into the arm code. That's a holy shit, a really hard hit. And they're going fast. They're well over 100.

What does that say? 164. I think what? He's at 192 kilometers per hour. Yeah, that's 120 miles per hour. Right. This contact happens. Yeah.

So, so the Porsche thought they had the line, but really the M2 was just taking a late apex and didn't even know he was there. Yeah. And that's true.

The Porsche chose to go up on curving or got, or pushed him was like, oh shit, they're coming over. And the M2 just kept coming. Yeah. That sucks.

God, what a big hit. Huge hit. And wait, which? Wow. Porsche flies up in the air.

Fireball. I honestly watched everyone lived. Yeah, they're all fine. Oh, as I wouldn't put this up there. Wow, that's nuts. And you know, they're out of it.

And like watching this made me want to get a new car because my car wouldn't handle that hit as well.

My car's got side airbag and stuff, but you see shit like this. It's not a guarantee, but it's not a guarantee. Those are two very safely designed cars. Wow, that passenger compartment in the M2 is incredibly intact.

Yeah, exactly. Every airbag. The thing looks like they put down curtains to sleep. I mean, all the mirrors are covered by airbags.

I don't know. I think there's a, I think there's, wow, the front of that Porsche is literally gone all the way to the firewall. But then the back of it looks pretty good.

Well, I guess I mean, the fuel tanks in the front, right? So that's what we're about ripped to right off. Yeah, that's crazy.

That's scary. So that's fucking nuts. I think it's a little murkier on the Nürburgring track day. Unfortunately, that is the Porsche drivers fault for going for this.

Yeah, for not for it being, you know, a place to overtake without enough room and without a point by. Yeah, I think that I think so. Yeah, that sucks.

Nürburgring, man, it's just a tricky because there are so many the tourist days. There are a huge variety of cars and drivers and they're all, I mean, it's, it's like lemons. There's fast shit, slow shit, good people, bad people, everything in between.

It's, yeah, it's very wild stuff. Okay, wow. Yeah, that's crazy. So I have some fun news. I have been upgraded.

I've been upgraded to premium economy. Originally, the plan was to tow the manks to pebble with a cayenne, but my Hail Mary has come through. And I have procured the only Bentley bentega press vehicle in America equipped with a tow package. Wow.

And so we will have a British racing green satin over Cumbrian green diamond quilt, a Mullen or specification interior in order to tow with.

So that will be a good time. So we will be able, we've been invited to display the entire rig together at motorlucks on Wednesday night. Really? Yeah. That makes so much sense. Honest to God. If you had a cayenne, they'd be like, no, thank you. I wouldn't have even asked. Yeah. I, as soon as I, as soon as I fucking got this, I called art. I was like, dude, we got to do it.

I guess the MSRP. I haven't seen this sheet. This one. So yeah. So, so it's not a, it's not a, um, it's not a speed. It's not a, it's not a, it's not a hybrid. So the regular business starts at 207. This one, uh, wait, no, this is a black edition.

They see what that starts at. That's, I have it that starts at 262, 62. Yeah. All right. So this is green, a fancy green satin.

It's a fancy green satin interior. Mullen or interior. Do you want to know what other big ticket items they have? And not how much they cost.

LED welcome lamps. The toe package. Jeweled fuel and oil filler caps. I can't wait to see this. Rear acoustic privacy glass, sports pedals, mood lighting, bang and Olfson stereo. That's probably like 10, uh, the satin paint.

Um, so here's one, uh, four plus one seat configuration. Now I don't, does that mean it's five, it's a five-seater that it's a bench and not captain shares. Yeah. So it's an optional bench rather than captain shares. Probably like those molded buckets, but there's a bridge in the middle of the back.

Okay. So that that we got that is the paint. Uh, over and sorry, precision diamond quilt specification and self, self leveling wheel badge by Mullen.

Oh, so it stays upright. The B, which I've said in other Bentley reviews is the by far the best value in all Bentley options. It's shockingly cheap. It looks cool. For how awesome it is. It's like 800 bucks. It's less. Wow. Yeah. It's by far the best value in Bentley.

Can I guess the paint cost? I'm going to go with over 10, but less than 20. Yes. All right. So it's like 16, less 12, five. Close. Okay. Uh, stereo.

You don't have to go option by. I just want to do those two. Okay. Yes. Is the stereo a standalone option? Or is it a part of a package? Uh, it's a standalone.

Is like 19 speaker shit doesn't say banging all of sin for Bentley. I think it says close. Okay. All right. So total. This thing's probably 348. No. Actually, despite what we've just said, this is a relatively low option vehicle.

It's not. It has only 39,875 dollars in options on it. And the total is 3067. Wow. But if you ask me, it looks like a million. I was going to say this just sounds. It does. It sounds like five. It sounds like someone has chosen the options for this with a real eye towards fucking greatest hits. Cool. Yeah.

But but satin green towing sparkly blue. It's great. You're going to look insane. No, it's good. You're going to the place where Bentley goes. Yeah, we want to see. We want to show that this can toe stuff around because that's who's there. Yeah. Cool. That's cool. And by the way, we're going to unload it after the week. So the, you know, we're driving up Wednesday. The parties Wednesday. So I have to like just make a swing by the house, like throw my luggage down and then drive straight to the event and load it in.

And then unload it for the tour the next morning after the party. So, yeah, it'll be a hectic day. But at least you don't have to unload the, the manks and then load it or you just. Yeah, no, we have to unload it once and then load it up again at the end of the weekend. So that is very, very exciting.

Shout out to for Bentley. And I mean, I'm actually, I'm going to write a story for road and track about towing with Bentley. By the way, we're going to have to figure out the logistics of some car to car still photography.

Exactly. Ali can come in handy with that. For what? For we have to get card to car of the toe. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Right. What we really need is a manks. Cheating your towing manks because they'll find one air. Everyone will be there calling out of a car. There's going to be like seven manks is up there. Ali, you know, it's going to be funny. Ali will bring like his ego and I'm just trying to get a still photo of this car.

Something funny. Okay. Do you want to talk about something that's kind of funny or kind of depressing? Let's go funny because I showed a car accident.

So there's a thing I've been seeing repeatedly on the internet that is sort of funny, which is people trying to say that people who are do our jobs don't really know what we're talking about.

Because they have X car and get used to X feature that we complain about. Sure. And I think that is funny to me because you getting used to it doesn't mean it doesn't suck.

Well, I think both are true. I think there's times where we say we call it out. We go. This is a journalist problem. I wasn't familiar with that control. Found it. But then there's stuff where.

We've become compared to the car. I don't know where people will go. I got used to go. Yeah. But all of its competitors do this in a way that is simpler to use or easier or whatever.

And it can be less convoluted to control. And so I think that's an instance where that person is just like I got used to wearing a flip-flop on a hiking boot and it's fine. Like sure, but other places sell you two shoes that.

Yeah. It just it made me chuckle that people don't put that together. I mean, I guess it's most people do put that together and we try to be honest about those types of things like when you can.

It's weird when the second half of that sentence, the one I saw this morning was they prefer to read owner reviews.

Someone who owns a car and then reviews it, which is weird because that brings like other sorts of problems. Like you don't have the journalist problem of you only get to use this car for a week and then really settle in with it.

But the other problem is like sunk costs and things like that by bias that like which I see way, way more. I see way, I read some of these owner reviews sometimes.

And I see way more apologizing for shittiness in their own car than I see journalists mistakenly calling features bad that were actually good.

Yeah, of course. It's that trait of not wanting to be wrong. Yeah. I mean without going into the main topic of it, like there's a lot of situations where that arises.

And I think it's it's it's a rare gem when you find an owner who goes I own this car and here's what I don't like about it. And they're very forthright. I think most people want to tell everyone like, hey, this thing was awesome either because it makes them feel correct or they want more people to join the club because they like they like the car enough.

And then they'll, you know, kind of minimize the problems that they're dealing with. Sure.

I don't know. Maybe I thought that would be better radio this morning. Never mind.

Okay, we rarely do we have big stinkers, but that was just like this makes sense. I understand. I understand where we're coming from. We'll go, we'll go to the people. How about we do that?

The people have the people they continue to speak. Of course, we forgot to talk about our shows in Texas. Come see us. Grab tickets now.

Zach, where have we put the ticket links on our our Instagram link and bio and do we put them in the show notes for these weeks shows. We very much also that July 24th in Houston, July 25th in Dallas.

We are going to be there live with Christian James hand. We are getting some exclusive merch for Nino is making our concert poster.

I sent him some very silly photographs of myself last night in order to hopefully turn into some sort of Hunter Thompson like monstrosity for our show.

And it's going to be a good time. Christians excited. We are all excited. Cool. It's going to be fun.

Right, but the Patreon, of course, is where you get the show early. It's where you get the show alive. In fact, do you get it like now? Like you're looking at now, sir, if you're a Patreon, if you're one of like, I don't know how many people are here now.

It's where you get exclusive early access to collapse, where you get the show without ads, and it's where you get extra show. All of those things can happen.

At patreon.com slash the smoking tire podcast. And let's get to some of those Patreon questions.

Disillusion in Detroit says watch nursery. Did you see the new Winder that time X made with the New Yorker for the 100th anniversary? I didn't.

And Zach will pull it up right now. And oh, I think that's a very cute little watch. It's a, it's a, it's a time X Marlin with, I mean, I don't know what that dial is actually made of.

It does look like porcelain, but it something tells me at $249. It isn't. But if you really like the New Yorker, I think that's kind of cute. I do too. Yeah. Kind of into it.

I think it would be really fun if you got took that and like, sent it to like, the homey, the dial artist and had him like, go to town coloring it in in the fun way. Oh, yeah, that could be cool. Sure.

I like the little comic drawing.

If you are on a tight budget, time X makes a fine quality watch. They're, they're GMT's and shit are like real dope for $200.

We explore ST says are we going to the all drain this year?

We're not going to the concourse in October.

The, we haven't been invited to the veteran tour yet. I hope they invite us again. It's certainly a good time.

But we'll see. No plans right now. Third Ferguson is looking for value in his car and is looking at Miata's but then shifted to Z3's and then M Roadsters and now on to S2000s.

What are your thoughts on value for roadstering?

If you fit in an S2000, they are good time and they're very well made.

And I mean, they're all like the newest one is 20 years old now, most right. But, but they were, they have a good, good supportive community and they're well made and there's a bunch of like low mile ones out there still.

I don't know about high mile ones, what if they have a lot of needs, but I don't know. I'm not sure like they're fun and they're special.

And S52, M Roadsters and M Coops are unloved, but are I think really nice cars to drive.

Yeah, and I drove on that had mild suspension stuff done and it made it feel a lot lighter and more fun.

And that, I think that's a better like do everything car can be fast and also kind of grand touring ability, whereas the S2000s light, loud, high rev, you know, all that stuff.

I think the Z3 will have a little better insulation on the top stuff like that in my, I've not, I don't have a lot of miles on Z3 roadsters with the top up, but I think they're a little better insulated than Miata's or S2000s.

I mean, I mean, also like, you know, don't, don't rule out boxsters. I mean, boxsters. I think if you're going to talk about an M Roadster, you should talk about a boxster.

I mean, yeah, the engine's in the middle and not in front, but it's, it's seats to modest power, very high on the engagement level, convertible, you know, competes.

And all those, all them competitions in the 2000s at the magazines we're doing, we're like boxster as through that, like that was all of them, you know, I don't fit in S2000s, so I don't like them, but they have great shifters.

Really good shifters.

Wait, oh, super fast, super fast. That's how you pronounce that. You must say it with lift an ultimate drive. Wait, what?

Oh, this is hypothetical, hypothetical. I couldn't, this seemed like a news item when I read it, I had the same thing.

Okay, because any, maybe when I read it, you'll hear it this way too. An ultimate driver just won the lottery and drove through the dealership showroom wall, which let's just game that out for a second.

If you really did won the lottery and you drove an ultimate and a dealership like fucked you. Yeah, you might be like, I'm buying a window to try.

I'm returning this car. You lose all your winnings to get sued. Yeah, like in, I did that last year or earlier this year in the Subaru, he pissed off.

I don't think he won the lottery though. No, no, he won a court case, but he returned his car.

If that guy, what the billionaire in LA who won the fucking Powerball Edwin, whatever his name is if he did, that would be legendary.

Because in the, in the movies, like heroes do that all the time. Yeah, there's no questions. Well, they're almost famous.

They fucking smash the bus through the gate and say me want to buy a gate hero movement. Sure, you know what I mean?

If you want a billion dollars, you're like, they charge me 37% on this piece of shit.

Fucking I'm buying a dealership window to that. Yeah, you just buy the dealership.

Oh, but that wasn't super fast half of question, which was what dealership did they hit and what high end zero-taste car are they buying with their wealth?

So this is like a cool admin situation. They crash through the dealership of the car they want, right?

Oh, that's the thing. Okay, it's basically what would a ultimate driver buy if they won the lottery?

It's funny that they like, they're going to crash through a dealership and then expect good customer service.

You know, I think some dealerships, if you show up with a big check, they might go, that's fine. And then they're going to mark up whatever exotic car a huge amount.

I mean, it's got to be like like the most unsellable like no, here's what they're going to do and ask me how I know this.

What they're going to do is they're going to spend way too much money like 50% over over MSRP buying a singer or a gunther like at auction somewhere or like from a dealership here in Beverly Hills or something, right?

They're going to spend like $2 million on the singer classic because they don't want to wait to get a new one from singer, right?

And then they're going to send it to singer to have them strip it and repaint it and retrim it in the color they want.

And that's going to cost another like 800,000.

And then by the end of that, they'll have paid like two and a half times more for a singer than just like waiting for one, like putting down a deposit and just like waiting to build their own, which you can do.

So that I think that's what they're going to do is they're going to spend two and a half times what it costs.

And because they're going to send it back to singer, they're already own it, but they won't actually have the car they want for as long as it would have taken them to just order a new one.

Okay.

I think they're punching through the window of like a secondhand sure own dealership and they're going to walk out with that.

Okay.

Yeah.

And then sell it when they figure out what a service costs.

Yes.

Nice cam says F8 spiders are all trading in the 400 to 450 range.

God damn.

That's crazy.

I didn't know that.

I don't watch F8 spiders, but like that's what they weren't new.

Like you could you could have bought one of those new.

If you could get it for MSRP in 2019 and been driving it for, you know, seven years for zero dollars.

God damn it.

Does it make sense to buy one with a much higher sticker, higher options, rather than a lower one with less options since you're paying around that anyway.

Or do you think that values will come down now?

Here's the question for quick reference.

Yeah.

There's four spiders that were sold on cars and bids last year and this year and they all are below 400.

They're like 330 to 390.

Okay.

No, I don't know if the question that nice cam is asking is should he buy a higher spec one or a lower spec one.

But if we're talking about used, I don't know if he's saying should he buy one with like a thousand miles on it that's top of the market or one with 15,000 miles on it that's 50, 60,000 dollars less.

I would rather buy one that has miles on it.

It's been driven.

It's been serviced and like I think that's fine.

I wouldn't necessarily, you can get so many options on Ferrari's that I'm not yet.

Like the car would be the same.

Right.

So you don't want to go, I'm going to go full sticker it out because people could choose shit you don't want that no one else cares about.

And cost a fortune.

That.

But also the base one might not, you want it somewhere in the middle, I think.

You don't want plastic all over it, but you also don't need, like I would skip carbon fiber engine bay.

Yeah.

Like I would skip all that shit.

Like you stuff that you, is in your hands or that you're looking at all the time, make it nice, skip the rest of it.

I'd probably pay more to get a great color that wasn't red, you know.

You show me an awesome color and I'll pay extra for that.

Either of us driven the Aston Martin Verage, you mean the one from like the 90s?

I've driven one from the 90s and it's not particularly impressive until you start talking about the like V550 and V600 this one.

Well, there's the, there's the DB9 Verage.

So that one, that's the, the Ver, when, I don't know, 2015 or something.

2012, 2011-12, the very end of the DB9, they tweaked it, they made a little nice and they call it the Verage.

Yeah.

We actually have one at WCCS, it looks, it's a really beautiful car.

I think these had on the interior.

I remember seeing one in Europe.

Yeah, this was before, I mean it was, it was one of those interiors where like it's hard to see some of the buttons, but I just like the way this design.

It looks great other than that pop-up screen on the top, which is the Volvo screen that stinks.

And the PR and the drive buttons on the dash I don't like.

Yeah, but very pretty cars and they drive very nice.

I don't know if this, if nice cams means the one from the early 90s or the one from 2011 or 12, but the early 90s one you need the V600, the V550, the fast one.

What a weird design it is in my opinion.

It's like a tiny canopy, huge body.

Yeah.

The ones with the beefy arches and shit, like the one in the second wrote that one.

Like that one, like when you make it look beefy, it looks pretty good.

It's got kind of a touring car kind of vibe.

Yeah.

That looks nice.

And then the V600 Le Mans.

That's why I had the twin superchargers, right?

Cool engine bay.

Yeah, like this looks nice.

And that has the slightly smaller V550 Le Mans, which they did for one year before doing the 600, which also has two superchargers.

Like if you told me that this was Chrysler's sports performance concept, the early 90s ago.

Yeah, sure.

They did a shooting break concept.

Look on the right side of the screen there.

Yeah.

Little wonky, but I kind of dig it.

I dig it from a pillar back.

Yeah.

Yeah, kind of into it.

Okay, where are we here?

Piggly Wiggly Deluxe says my Mazda was stolen yesterday.

What a bummer.

Other than the obvious police report telling friends, family, and co-workers, what else can I do to help find it?

I mean, I've seen a lot of people on Instagram, you know, FD drivers, their friends, trailer, stolen, they post a thing.

Basically, I get the word out.

Crowdsource, social media, and especially if you have friends that are local and have them repost shit.

It's just keeping eyes out.

Depends on where you live.

Like has it already gone to a shipping port?

Or is it just being driven around by someone?

I don't know.

I think you get the word out and keep it on Facebook Marketplace, too.

Truly.

Yeah.

Look on Craigslist.

I mean, you know, literally places where people sell used cars.

Like, you can look on Craigslist and be like hashtag, like no title.

Yeah.

Like, if you know, IYKYK, like.

Yeah, I guess it'd be hard to sell that kind of stuff on the car.

Start going to takeovers.

It might just show up there.

That's a bummer for this person.

Oh, man, Hannah and I.

Hannah, there's some show that's, I think it's called like Mean Girls.

And it's about like girls that murder, right?

Okay.

And there's one that's about these girls that like go to street takeovers.

And they're like a girl click.

Oh, I've seen clips of, you've seen that shit.

I haven't seen that show, but I have seen street takeover clips of women driving like SRT

this or CTSV that and like whip in and drifting us.

Yeah.

The impression I got of these particular women was not that they were drivers.

Oh, okay.

So they were there to be like candy.

Okay.

Sure.

That was their vibe.

As told by them.

Right.

To this television show.

It's like fast and various one.

Yeah.

Jawroll.

Basically.

Yeah, basically, but like at, at takeovers in Sacramento.

It was like, right.

It was rough.

I'm not surprised.

Any of this.

Rough.

Yeah.

Not great.

Charles Clair's clinical depression.

Reno posted an $11 billion loss regarding Nissan in the first half of this year.

At what point does someone have enough and put the brand out to pasture?

Uh, yeah.

That's not so good.

$11 billion.

That's a lot.

I mean, I don't know what the answer is to that.

How do you lose that much money like while selling cars?

Like there's Nissan's all over the place.

I was looking at, like, I'm trying to think of other companies that lose a lot of money.

I was looking at Rivian.

Yeah.

Because they were losing a lot of money per quarter.

Yeah.

But their first quarter of 2025, they had $206 million of positive profit.

Oh, okay.

Which might be the first one.

No, high for Rivians.

So that is a huge, I mean, yeah, Nissan started a long time ago.

Dude, that's half a year.

That's not even the whole year.

Yeah.

That's so bad.

I don't know.

I wish I could say I studied the, uh, like, I don't know in the scale of Nissan.

How bad that is.

It sounds horrible.

Like these people play with numbers.

I don't fucking comprehend.

And there's always ways like restructure things.

Yeah.

I think what we, what we can say is that it's very rare for a car company with any kind of history

to just be thrown in the garbage.

Yeah.

There is life support for everyone, you know.

You know, there's more of it for a cool company.

Ask them aren't bankrupt seven times, I think.

Yeah, if your cars are pretty, someone will save you.

Yeah, exactly.

So Nissan, I don't know.

There's a lot of four in there.

Yeah.

Um, it sounds bad.

It does.

And also they don't really have any good new product.

There's also that.

But they also are so big like they have all these factories.

I, I think it's hard to let that stuff just go because you have all this equipment and ship.

Who knows?

That's big.

That sounds like a ton.

It does sound like a lot of money.

Yeah.

That sounds out of context.

That sounds so out of touch.

Like 11 billion does sound like quite a bit of money.

No, but when you're talking about multi-national, who the fuck?

They could.

I couldn't tell you right now if Nissan is supposed to be making.

I'm sure they're supposed to be making more than zero.

Right.

But like I couldn't tell you if a good year for Nissan is two billion.

Right.

Ten billion.

I mean, profit, good.

Pretty billion.

Sure.

Do they just accept that we're going through a couple years of restructuring.

Yeah.

I mean, what there's really needs is a private equity douche company to come in.

Buy this, saddle the debt on someone else, and then they can like call Nissan Save or something like that.

Sounds good.

Yeah.

Mission accomplished.

Yeah, great stuff.

Peter Panarki.

That's funny.

I like that.

Okay.

How do you.

Okay.

In the future, if you want people to pronounce that right, I would lower case P capital A.

Sure.

You know what I mean?

I mean, don't make me do so much more.

Peter Panarki.

Peter Panarki is pretty fun though.

That's a very good one.

Um, wants to talk about a couple drawbacks that EVs have while off-roading.

Uh, one is a lack of low range.

Minimum wheel speed is just too high.

Uh, I would, I mean, maybe when rock crawling, but I've, I've never had an issue.

We haven't.

And now this person does say that they have a third gen taco.

They have a, their brother's a quad motor R1T and a built samurai.

So they do have some experience.

Uh, it's possible that if you did, uh, rock trails more difficult than we tend to, that you might need lower wheel speed.

We haven't really tested that.

But our, on our trail where it's, it's pretty steep and there's some big like, I don't know, one to two foot tall rock ledges.

You have to get up.

Uh, I have not experienced the wheel speed being too high.

It seems like it works really well.

So maybe that would be come a problem on a more difficult trail.

Yeah.

Um, yeah.

I mean, I appreciate the input.

Totally.

Um, that wasn't, it was not my experience.

And it certainly wasn't my experience in the electric G-wagon, which I think does have low range, by the way.

I'm, I am fairly certain it does.

I drive a lot of cars, but I really think it has low range.

Zach is looking.

Duh, duh.

I think it has 4L because it has the, like, it has, uh,

uh, it does.

Yeah.

It has a low range gear reduction and can replicate the action of locking differentials.

Yeah.

Okay.

I'm not, I wouldn't make that up.

But I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't, I don't think Ruby and Stu, uh, barbecue sauce on my, oh, wait.

What?

Hold on.

Holy shit.

Wait.

I can't read that.

Okay.

After driving.

Okay.

After driving the forerunner, do you wish it had a small V8 or what V8 overlander would you pick?

I don't have no allegiance to any type of cylinder count for an overlanding vehicle.

I, I don't, I don't really see any argument that somehow a small V8 would be better for

overlanding than whatever's currently been decided on the power band in the torque.

I mean, because this hybrid assist on the forerunner helps with that.

For, uh, some context, my, uh, brother-in-law who I saw in Colorado, he has a last-gen

taco.

It's really built.

He's done a bunch of stuff to it.

Um, if you're into that, go watch his YouTube channel Infos Bunch.

But riding in that thing, I go, I ask him, I go, does this thing hunt for gears all the

time?

He's like, absolutely.

It sucks.

Like this old five-speed, he gets like 14 miles per gallon at best.

I mean, he's put some bumpers on and stuff.

But I think where I'm headed is the new powertrain is more efficient and seems well suited.

And is quieter and has less vibration than that old V6.

So if you put a V8 in it, you know, there's tradeoffs.

Like, and it only, it would only help if it was a really torquing low-range V8.

Um, but it also might get shit gas mileage.

I don't know.

It would be fun in some ways, but it would necessarily be better.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't, I've never been like, oh, this, this would, this turbo six overlander

would be better if it had a V8.

I've never thought that.

And by the way, like Vinny, he's gone through a couple Lexus GXs.

Both have V8s.

He drives them on the highway all the time.

They get terrible gas mileage.

Yeah.

They're super inefficient.

Yeah.

So it depends on what you're doing with your overlanding vehicle.

Yeah, most people who are overlanding, if they actually do out the math,

they're overlanding vehicles driven on the pavement, like 95% of the time.

Most of the time.

Um, Derek, I have no thoughts on the Aston Martin Valhalla.

We've never driven it.

Must drive to have thoughts.

Sorry, kid.

FSD had the wheel fastest, alleged speed while actively smoking.

It's a weird question.

But I mean, while having a cigarette.

I guess so.

I mean, back in the day when I smoked cigarettes, I'm very certain that on our trips to

Rump, we sat on the fucking rev limiter of the Raptor at 100 smoking cigarettes.

I think he did 112.

Yeah.

Something like that.

No, that was the one.

My Raptor was 100.

That was.

Yeah.

Okay.

It was dangerous.

It felt okay.

It was dangerous when you were trying to make a pass.

Oh, yeah.

And you hit the rev limiter.

Oh, right.

Yeah.

At a bad time.

Um, yeah, surely.

I don't know.

Probably.

Probably 100.

I mean, not.

Yeah.

I mean, it was a good thing to have a cigarette.

It's like actively having a grid.

Yeah, I can't imagine going faster than that.

It's like not pleasant to go with a thousand miles an hour.

I don't think you were not a person who would like put your cigarette, you always have the

window down.

Yeah.

So you weren't a person who would like close the window on a vet.

Put it in your mouth and be like, watch this shit.

Yeah.

And then you go 150.

So you were not that person.

I mean, uh, Dick trickle must have the record.

Obviously, respect to the king.

Right.

But was he smoking while racing or just during the yellow, the cautions?

I mean, just during the cautions, but that's in a NASCAR.

That's still probably 120.

Just chill it, or I don't know what they go around at.

Yeah.

Yeah, your price is probably 120 regular.

Yeah, he had to figure it later in a pack in his NASCAR.

OK, wait.

I want to save Dre from Houston's question.

But the problem is I am unable to sit here

and come up with a bunch on the fly.

I think that's a question that deserves some actual thought,

not just like real time.

What can I think of in five seconds?

But we'll save that one, and we'll make it into a topic

for a next podcast.

Enrico Palazzo, would you rather have

a single $5,000-ish switch watch or $10, $500-sacos?

When I first started collecting watches,

not, excuse me, when I first started living my fucking life,

I had one nice watch.

And one nice watch.

Yeah, I'd give you a rule.

And I looked at people that had 10 watches, like they were idiots.

I was like, I have one nice watch.

It goes with every single outfit.

Why would I need more?

And I was right then.

And now I have a whole bunch of watches

and change them around for fun for no reason at all,

other than I like doing that.

And I was right both times.

There's no right answer.

So if I was the me of today, but on a budget of 25 years ago,

I'd rather have a bunch of sacos.

But back then, I was perfectly happy

and never saw any reason to not have one nice watch

for everything.

That's fine, too.

Both strategies totally fine.

Have you ridden this?

I asked about that.

It's that weird looking BMW.

Have you seen that thing?

The weird looking, the BMW C-E-O-4

is this sort of very futuristic looking BMW scooter.

Whoa.

Yeah.

Very judge-dread.

Yes, very judge-dread.

The second one, wow.

It's almost as expensive as the can-am.

But it does have the under seat storage

more like a Vespa.

$12,300, weird.

Yeah, the front of it looks like Scooter.

Yeah.

It's BMW EV Scooter.

Uh-huh.

So it's weird looking.

And it does seem interesting.

I've seen a couple of them around L.A.

Haven't seen one with a cargo box on the back yet.

Still waiting to see that.

It's very like design-y.

And that's cool.

It's honestly more interesting than what

BMW's doing with their car division right now

for the most part.

I'd like to try one.

I think they only have the C-E-O-2 at the press fleet.

And it's like that's like the less good one.

I need the O-4.

You know, it looks like a snowmobile.

Yeah, but wheels on it.

Yeah.

All right.

Yeah, one or two more.

And then we will end because I very much have to pay.

Jake Shores, uh, wait.

OK.

Least reliable, but best brands to lease,

but never own out of warranty.

Land Rover.

So I brought this up.

Like, Audi got dead last in this initial quality study.

So that's not very good.

That's not great.

OK.

Wow, Nissan is way right up behind Lexus.

How about that?

It's amazing.

Reliable, but they can't sell any of them.

Yeah.

How interesting.

The very bottom, let's see, uh, the very bottom Rivian is real bad.

Now, how amazing is it that infinity is fifth from the bottom,

but Nissan is second.

How do you do that?

Maybe the Nissan, maybe they're built in different factories.

I'm actually really bummed to see Mazda that far down.

Yeah, I thought they were better.

Land Rover, not as bad as you'd think,

but they're right next to Mercedes.

Yeah.

I mean, I wouldn't want to own any EV out of warranty personally.

That's where I would start, really.

So brand, brand agnostic, but, uh, you know, I think there's

a lot of things that are probably OK.

But still, yeah, Land Rover would be scary.

And Audi or a Mercedes or BMW would be scary.

And for people listening, I'm referencing this JD power

initial quality study, which is not like long-term ownership

of liability, it's problems when the car is, I think,

was it under 100 days?

Yeah.

When the car is pretty new, it's like, what are people struggling

with?

And I think we read this before.

And some of that comes down to like their confused,

go back to confusion.

They got confused by the screen or something.

Yeah.

But it's a bunch of shit.

OK, last one.

All right, let me do that.

And it says OK.

How, oh, you know what?

I think Sly's question is a kind of a joke.

But TST, Sugar Daddy's, what is the worst roadtrip snack

mistake you've ever made?

Ooh.

I'm sure I've eaten things that my stomach did not like

very quickly.

I mean, I can't necessarily say, like,

I've had, like, the stuff I buy at gas stations

is going to be predictable.

You know, I'm buying beef jerky or chips or nuts or something.

I'm not getting some weird gas station hot dog.

I bought, this was on a trip where we looked up the law

and you were allowed to drink in the back seat.

It was on our big East Coast trip in 2012.

And I bought, like, a buzz ball, like, wine something.

Those drinks, they sell the Costco fish bowl size.

That stuff's disgusting.

But that was the worst tasting wine I've ever had in my life.

That was really grim.

A buzz ball.

I remember seeing them.

And I guess I should have bought the brown one.

That's, like, a mixed collada.

But I got that.

And it was really terrible.

I should have expected that to be terrible.

I mean, I could easily say that drinking seven cups

of coffee on my drive back from Tauho

and having a panic attack.

I think probably qualifies as worst roadtrip snacking

mistake that I have made.

I can't think of any other roadtrip food

that I've had that literally, like, caused me

to have to stop on the side of the road for like an hour.

I'll tell a story.

It's not mine, but, well, we're filming with,

I'll just think it was that.

And he's listening right now, but we're filming big muscle.

Oh, I know where you're going.

And I bought him, like, a monster energy Starbucks coffee

thing, because this was before you could get cold brew,

like, in a can.

And we're up on top of the mountain of, like, the 33.

And he drinks this thing, and he just comes over.

He goes, I need the keys to the battle wagon.

I'm like, and mustard, I'm like, what do you mean?

He's like, I have to go down to the bottom of the mountain

right now.

So he's a bathroom.

And he looked, that looked very serious.

He's a very large imposing man.

And I gave him the keys, and he drove down.

And mustard and I were like, I guess I will shoot beauty shots.

And he comes back 20-ish minutes later,

and he hands me the keys again.

And he says, never buy me one of those again.

It was the Starbucks, like, vanilla latte in the glass.

That's what it was.

Oh, you know, one of those things.

I just remember, never buy me one of those again.

Oh, shout out to that.

All right, thank you, patrons.

That is a good one.

We'll save Drain Houston's question for the next show.

We love you guys.

We'll see you on Thursday.

Thank you for listening.

Get tickets to our show in Texas today while they last.

See you later.

Bye.

Whose Fault?; EV Moto Opinion Change; Q&A

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