"Your Presence Is a Lie!" The 60-Second Car Deal: One Dealer's Bet on the Future of Retail (& The Numbers Behind It) | Jon Alcorn, Operating Partner at Dogwood Automotive Group
Car Dealership Guy Podcast
Car Dealership Guy PodcastJun 2, 2026
"Your Presence Is a Lie!" The 60-Second Car Deal: One Dealer's Bet on the Future of Retail (& The Numbers Behind It) | Jon Alcorn, Operating Partner at Dogwood Automotive Group
The Dodge Ram is a large pickup truck made for work and everyday use. People buy it to tow trailers, carry cargo, and handle tasks that a regular car can’t. In the podcast, it’s mentioned as part of the dealership brands the group sells and supports.
“Pencil” is dealer slang for doing the deal math by hand—like figuring out what the price or monthly payment could be. They’re saying they stopped doing that with paper and moved to a faster digital process.
It’s a software system dealerships use to show prices and deal details faster, usually on a screen instead of doing everything by phone or paper. The goal is to get you the numbers quickly while you’re in the showroom.
In dealership talk, “grosses” is basically how much money the dealer makes on the sale. They’re saying their profit per deal went up after changing how they present the numbers.
Finance penetration is the share of buyers who take a loan or lease through the dealer. If it’s 89%, that means 89 out of 100 customers are financing with the dealer’s finance options.
“Auto fi” is the name of the software/service the dealership picked to help them show deal numbers and financing details more quickly. The host is saying they like the company behind it.
“Team velocity” is the name of a company or software system the dealership is using. They’re saying it helps manage the customer journey from online to the showroom.
“Touch points” means the different steps where you interact with the dealership—like online browsing and then the in-store paperwork and pricing. The dealer is saying they can follow that whole journey.
Term
free rooftops
“Free rooftops” sounds like a marketing deal where the provider covers multiple dealership locations for free. The speaker is saying bundling those services saved them some money.
Here “credit” means the customer’s financial credit score/history used to set up car financing. The dealer is talking about letting the customer control the credit submission so they can see the financing results directly.
Term
rates
“Rates” are the interest rates you’d pay to borrow money for the car. Lower rates usually mean lower monthly payments or less total cost.
Term
two points markup
“Two points markup” is a way to say the dealer adds a small, fixed percentage to the car’s price. It’s basically how much profit they’re building into the deal, expressed as percent points.
A BDC rep is a dealership employee who answers calls and helps handle customer leads. Their job is to keep leads moving toward a test drive, quote, or service appointment.
Mia is an AI assistant that answers dealership calls and helps customers. It’s meant to respond quickly and handle common questions so shoppers can keep moving through the buying process.
DMS is the main software system dealerships use to run day-to-day operations. It often connects inventory, service appointments, and customer records in one place.
Deep digital retailing means buying a car mostly online, using websites and tools to handle the steps that used to require a salesperson. The criticism is that it can feel scattered if each step is in a different place.
Here, “fragmented” means the online buying process is spread across different systems that don’t talk to each other. That can make it harder for the dealership to keep everything consistent for the customer.
“One unified process” means the dealership tries to run the whole online car-buying flow as one connected system. That helps avoid losing information between steps and makes the experience smoother.
Digital retail is when you buy a car using the internet instead of going to the dealership in person. It usually includes steps like choosing the car, getting financing, and signing paperwork online.
Here, “callbacks” means the dealership reaches out to you after you’ve done part of the online buying steps. It’s usually when a person needs to handle the next paperwork or approval step.
Brand
Autify
Autify is a software tool the dealer is comparing to their own process. The point is that it can manage parts of the online car-buying steps and trigger follow-ups when a person needs to step in.
Term
remote you sign
This means you can sign the car paperwork from wherever you are, not only at the dealership. It’s usually done electronically so the deal can move forward online.
A finance manager (often called a business manager) is the dealership role responsible for completing the financial side of the deal. That typically includes arranging financing or leasing, and managing required paperwork and disclosures—especially the documents that vary by state.
Different states require different forms when you buy a car. Even if you start the deal online, the dealership may need to make sure you complete the state-specific paperwork before everything is official.
Some states want proof that the car will be covered by insurance before the sale is finished. That can mean you have to provide insurance details or documents during the final online steps.
A maintenance package is an add-on deal that pays for routine services for a while. Instead of you paying for each service later, it’s bundled into one plan when you buy the car.
State work is the paperwork the dealership has to do for the government so you can register the car. Different states have different rules, so it can slow things down.
“Fully transparent” here means the dealership shows you the real details of the deal up front. Instead of hiding parts of the pricing, they explain how the numbers work so you can decide faster.
“Outbound activity” means the dealership reaches out to people first, like calling or messaging prospects. It’s tracked because it can create more leads, but it should still lead to real results.
COO means Chief Operating Officer—basically the person in charge of running the business day to day. In a dealership, they focus on how efficiently the operation runs.
“Shop efficiency” is a way to measure how well the entire service area is running. It’s not just one mechanic—it’s the whole workflow and how much work gets done.
“Tech efficiency” means how effectively the mechanics are using their time to get jobs done. It helps a dealership see whether the service shop is running smoothly.
Outbound calls are calls the dealership makes to people who might buy a car. The dealership tracks how many they make and how well they turn into appointments or sales.
Auto Vision is a company that makes software for dealerships. They’re pitching tools that help dealerships manage and speed up the process of getting used cars ready to sell.
Reconditioning is what a dealership does to get a used car ready to sell. It can include repairs and cleaning, and if it takes too long, the car can’t be sold as quickly.
Recon Vision is a tool that helps dealerships manage the used-car reconditioning process. The goal is to make it faster and easier to track what’s happening to each car.
Mazda is a car brand. Here it’s mentioned because the dealership group sells Mazda cars at one of its showrooms.
Concept
one property situation
It means the different brand dealerships are on the same site. That can let employees help with sales for more than one brand, instead of being locked into only one showroom.
A scorecard is a dealership’s way of tracking how well each salesperson is doing. It usually uses a set of targets or rules, and it turns performance into a number so managers can compare people and reward the best results.
Term
washout commission check
This is commission that can be reduced or reversed after the sale if the deal doesn’t end up working out. Dealerships use it to make sure salespeople get paid based on deals that actually complete and meet the rules.
This means getting all the dealership’s customer information into one connected system. If the data isn’t connected, you can’t easily tell what marketing or sales steps actually lead to a car being sold.
Term
predictive of success
This means using early signals to guess whether someone will eventually buy a car. The idea is that some early behaviors are better predictors than just looking at the final result.
A CSV file is a simple way to store data in rows and columns, like a basic spreadsheet. It’s often used to export or import dealership numbers for analysis.
Term
web hook
A webhook is like an automatic notification that sends information from one computer system to another. Here it’s being used to help collect dealership data without manually copying everything.
CRM is the dealership’s system for tracking customers and leads. It helps organize all the conversations and activity so sales teams can follow up and measure what leads to buying.
This is the dealership company the guest works for. They’re talking about how their dealerships are using new software to make car buying faster for customers.
VINQ is the newer platform the guest says they switched to from VAUTO. In this segment, VINQ is described as integrating directly with their AI workflow and helping deliver customer-facing information quickly.
VAUTO is the previous dealership software/tooling the guest says they replaced. They describe the switch as difficult because it required retraining their team’s “muscle memory,” implying VAUTO was deeply embedded in their workflow.
This means getting the important info to shoppers quickly. Instead of making people wait or search, the system should summarize what matters right away.
Term
SOTUCon
SOTUCon sounds like an industry event where people talk about dealership technology. The guest is referencing it as the place where this AI idea was discussed.
A “CTA stack” is the set of buttons on a website that tell you what to do next. It’s basically the page’s step-by-step prompts to get you to request a quote or start the process.
An “AI page” is a website step-by-step form that uses software to help you through the quote process. Instead of waiting for someone, it tries to get you an answer quickly.
“Actual cash value” is basically what your vehicle is worth in dollars, based on its condition and age. Here, they’re trying to give you that number almost immediately.
An “AI deployment” just means the AI is actually being used in the business workflow, not just tested. In this case, it contacts customers around the time they check in for service.
This means buying with as few steps as possible. “Contactless” usually means you don’t have to do as much in-person stuff—like signing or paying—because it’s handled digitally.
Even if the price isn’t actually lower, a smoother buying process can make people feel like they got a better deal. It’s about how the experience changes what the customer thinks they’re getting.
In dealership negotiation, “walking” means leaving the dealership without buying—often used as leverage to push for a better price. The quote suggests customers may pay more when the process is easier, even though they could theoretically negotiate harder by walking away.
Concept
30 and 60 seconds to... know what the impact is
They’re talking about testing changes and seeing the effect quickly. Instead of waiting weeks to find out if a new process works, they want early signals within about a minute.
ACV is a way dealers talk about what a car is worth in real money. Here, they’re saying their site can generate an ACV estimate fast as part of their online sales process.
Term
AI
AI means computer software that can make decisions or predictions. In this context, it’s being used to help generate car quotes faster through their online system.
LIVE
Welcome to the car dealership guy podcast.
Today's episode is brought to you by Mia Reynolds and Reynolds and CDG
circles. And now let's get into the show.
John Alcorn, Dogwood Automotive Group operating partner.
Welcome to the car dealership guy podcast.
Thank you, Sam. Thank you.
But we're pumped to have you for our audience that doesn't know you.
Tell us who you are, what you do.
How many stores, brands, what do you have out there, John?
So we have three brands.
We have Mazda, Volkswagen and Volvo in Winchester, Virginia.
I'm the operating partner here.
My partner is Jim Keffer out of Charlotte, North Carolina.
I know I think he's been on the OCS.
I've been on the daily dealer with you about how it operates here
and the kind of the buyout program that Jim does.
And so we've been gosh, we started here August to 24th.
So we've been here a little over close to a year and a half working on two years.
That's awesome. That's awesome.
So, John, operating partner can mean a lot of things, depending on the auto group.
But Dogwood, what does the role actually look like day to day?
And how does that position give you a different view of the showroom
than a traditional dealer, principal or general manager might have, John?
It's essentially I take that title because I'm buying Jim out over the course of
10 years, which him and I, we talked about last time.
And I think I talked about on the OCS cast.
I've got about a year, eight and a half years left, which I'm just
I can't even begin to thank him for the opportunity I have.
But realistically, I kind of take that general manager role on as well as
Jim's involved, the whole team down in Charlotte is involved.
The Kefer management company, the group is involved in a lot of things.
You know, we look at the contracts together.
I get to tap into all of those resources that Jim has,
you know, digitally with Steve Suggs, looking at it to making sure,
you know, comparing it to other contracts in the group, making sure that we're,
you know, we're not getting the vendors charging us all the way over here
compared to what some of the guys down in Charlotte or even Minnesota
or Alabama or whoever is they're getting charged half.
Why? What is it? Can we do? What can we do to save some money?
So we get to look at that a group session.
You have Frank K. Kyrzevsky, who helps with a lot.
You got corporate controllers that kind of kind of peek in behind us
and make sure everything's running.
And really kind of the cool part is, is they help develop us as operators
and dealer principals eventually so that when we're gone and there's
there's not that to tap into, we have a really good basis and foundation
to build the business on.
In fact, when we go over numbers monthly and that and everything
and the email comes out, we actually get to see all of what Jim calls the alumni,
which is all the stores have finished the buyouts.
And we get to see their nets and their grades and kind of that's a testament
to the relationship he's built is, hey, you know, we these guys kind of got out
on their own and they're still very good friends with Jim.
We're still varying in, you know, engaged in the discussions that we have
on how to make the industry better, how to make our businesses better.
And we get to kind of see what they're doing compared to what we're doing.
It's really it's it's it's cool.
But to answer your question specifically, I take a lot of the general manager roll on,
but I'm also the operating partner and buying him out slowly.
And so I have to think about it in two ways.
And of course, my goal eventually one day would be to just be that
dealer principal with a general manager and give somebody else the opportunity
that I've gotten from Jim and to buy in and take over and move some brands
and see what I can do because that's the goal is to help people bring
other people into that spot that I have.
So an automotive mentorship is important.
You talk about this alumnus group, their mentors, it seems.
How many alumnus are there?
How many are their operating partners that have bought themselves out?
If you know that number, I think Jim's finished like 35 or 36 of them.
Um, and I want to say when we get the reports, there's like 20 or 22 of them
that are still kind of contributing numbers in, uh, in the discussion.
So well, well over the majority of them are still engaged with Jim and kind of,
I mean, the funny part is I came from one of his alumni guys.
Did you come from where was that?
I didn't have anybody in the car business.
My dad was pilot moms in real estate and banking.
And, uh, I answered in that on Craigslist for $18 an hour after I was a commercial
pilot and had gotten furloughed and showed up and got a job at Ashborough
Honda in North Carolina.
And, uh, the general manager at the time was a guy named Chris Morgan.
He had moved on and, uh, when it was time for me to kind of grow and I had hit
the ceiling with the Ashborough group, uh, I went and saw Chris and Chris was
at battleground Kia, which was one of Jim's stores.
And, uh, I was there for a while and got an opportunity to open up and help
run M and L Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram under Chris Morgan and Joe Bryson.
Uh, and then while that was happening, they were planning for Burlington Kia
in Burlington, North Carolina, which was a new point, which was really cool.
And it kind of helped set that up with them.
But in the meantime was doing Lexington.
And, uh, unfortunately, I kind of hit my ceiling where I was at and, and moved
on to a very large group based out of Florida, but was in North Carolina at
the time and Jim knew of me.
And so those two Joe, uh, Chris Morgan and Joe Bryson actually finished
buying Jim out.
And so they now have battleground Kia, Burlington Kia and M and L, which is
all around the Greensboro, North Carolina area.
Um, and Jim had known of me and we've talked several times before and, but, uh,
after I had made the determination to move back home to Frederick, Maryland to
take care of my brother's family, he, um, he called and said, Hey, we got
this store, uh, in Winchester, Virginia.
Are you interested in buying, buying it?
I said, yeah, like, yes, it's like 45 minutes from where I grew up and I'm
moving back, Jim, and it was, it was really perfect how it happened.
So I actually came from one of his alumni and that's kind of how it all happened.
It was pretty cool.
So it's interesting.
And from my vantage point, it's rare to see dealers allowing partners to
actually truly buy out a store, right?
There are big exceptions.
The Rydel group and others, it's rare to have that opportunity.
And it's interesting, you started this process just a couple of years ago.
You're new into it.
Tell our audience, what's one thing that surprised you about going from a
general manager to an operating partner from kind of being command control of
the store, but with significant oversight to being a person who's making
significant decisions with the goal of one day owning it 100%.
What's one big takeaway that surprised you in that process, John?
I would, I would have to say it was a reflective moment.
Um, as a general manager, a lot of times I worked for a really cool group
based out of Lakeland, Florida, um, which I have the utmost respect.
And he's still a very good friend of mine.
I saw a lot of friends in that group and, um, I had left there to come back
and I was always a general manager.
Um, I made suggestions and said, Hey, we should do this and we talked about it.
And at the end of the day, it was his decision.
It was always somebody else's decision.
Um, it was really, really a reflective moment when you realized there's nobody
else, this is you.
This is your family's future.
This is everything you've always wanted.
Like I'm not there yet.
Be very clear.
I'm aware.
But I finally got a ticket to show up to the game and now I have to perform.
And it's, there's nobody else that's going to save me.
There's nobody else that it falls on me.
And yeah, I can't tell you, we're closed on Sundays.
Um, I can't tell you how many Sundays I've been here, um, uh, with nobody here.
It's not, you don't do it for the accolades anymore.
You do it because it's your, I mean, I've got a six year old and a nine year old,
those boys and my wife, it's, um, my absolute rock.
We've been married for 16 years together for 23 and I get to get home and I look
at him and I never get to turn it off because I'm a partner in a business that
is going to be mine one day and I've got to make sure it operates.
So it's that reflective moment of there's nobody else that's going to come save
you.
There's not a life vest.
You've got to figure it out.
And, uh, we were at dinner the other night and I was asking Brian, uh, Ben
socks and questions and he looked at me says, you got to remember, you always
have the right to manage your business and they're not coming.
If they show up, they're not coming for anybody but you tell us, what was the
state of the shirm when you started to dig into that?
And what was broken that most people probably weren't calling broken yet,
John?
Uh, so in my opinion, the next generation is already happening, right?
So I agree.
Um, yeah, we, we talked about AI was just published through you guys.
We heard of the so to con the first digital AI agent to
transaction happened on make worth of it here.
Um, although it's only what like 2.5 or 2.9% of the space right now as far as
leads, it's up 300% something crazy like that.
Don't quote me on their stats, but, um, the fact is, is that consumers know
more now than they ever have.
The FTC is leveling the playing field as far as pricing is concerned.
And the idea and the notion that somebody's going to call up and we're
going to tell them, Hey, your presence is your leverage.
We're not giving you numbers till you show up.
Yeah.
We're not going to give you about the idea of the pencil is dying to slow death.
Um, Tommy uses that, uh, from delivered uses that phrase a lot.
Your presence is your leverage.
And he says it's a lie, right?
Yeah, it is.
And that, that's the thing is, is your presence is your leverage.
You show up and the numbers get worse.
Yeah.
And it's, you know, we have a real focus on.
So about a year ago, I came in and we had taken over from a group called
fire automotive group and they were very, they were just like everybody else.
Right.
Here's your pencil.
Here's this, hold that, do this.
We're not going to give you numbers over the phone.
We're not going to.
And I said, we need to be able to bring information to the consumer faster.
In fact, a week from now, we're actually going to be even accelerating it further,
which is cool.
But I went with a digital retailing tool at the time, uh, that allowed the showroom
to go with it.
So we don't pencil anymore.
We haven't actually printed a paper pencil and over you.
Um, our grosses are up higher.
The, um, the financing is we hold, we, we, we average about 89% finance
penetration on customers.
Um, so, so what's the tool?
You went to John.
So we actually went to auto fi and, um, I love the auto fi folks.
I think they're great.
Uh, we are switching, um, in a week from now, because of some other things
that were kind of a, an issue, um, not having to deal with them.
And I went to, I'm going to team velocity, front to back everything.
They have a lot of the capabilities that auto fi has.
They aren't as fine tuned as auto fi is, but to package everything together
and be able to touch the customer from the beginning all the way through,
see what they did online and transitions to the showroom digital pencil that we
do and actually be able to see all those touch points from the beginning
to the end is priceless.
Not to mention by packaging free rooftops into one, I was able to
save a little bit of money.
Um, so auto fi was cool because you bring a customer in the showroom,
you sit them down and we say, we do things.
Dogway doing a little different, you know, how powerful it is to say we,
we don't control the numbers you do, Mr.
Customer, we don't submit your credit.
You do that's kind of how we do things is we look at a customer and say,
Hey, you get to submit your own credit.
You get to work here and he'll, we're just here to make sure you love the view.
And cause that's really what it's about.
It's a, it's an experience and nobody else is doing that.
So when they submit their credit, they get to see the callbacks right there.
They get to see the rates.
It's not some guy going, well.
We got other callbacks.
They were worse, right?
No, you see, um, and there's safeguards that are built in, right?
So we offer everything at two points markup across the board.
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You talk about having the one tool, how important is it?
Do you think in 2026 today having one versus multiple tools?
One of the big criticisms of deep digital retailing in the past up until now is how
fragmented it is.
You played in the fragmented space, but then now you're saying, hey, we're
aligning and we're taking it to one unified process.
How important is that one process to successful digital retailing?
It's essential.
Absolutely essential.
So Mike Cochin, good friend, David Long.
I like that.
Had me a word at the beginning of the year and I hadn't been introduced this yet.
And he said, you need to pick one word.
And I said, my word is simplify.
And I say that because I have three very, very different brands on the same property
right next to each other.
We run essentially at the end of the day, almost like one dealership.
And to have three brands trying to unify and line all of the requirements up, you
lose a lot of sleep over that.
And then you get into some of these older sites, websites, and some of the stuff that
was built from the old company that, you know, when we bought the place, we just
slapped our name on it and really hadn't torn down some of the SEO and some of the
things that were really important and some of these older website companies that
really aren't tooled up for the new coming AI situation.
And all of the different stuff, all the different plugins you're putting on these
websites, like with Autify was great because I could see when they got in and
worked the quote, but I couldn't see when they were on our website.
I couldn't see if they were to.
So there was a transition issue and I had all of these softwares and they weren't
talking to each other.
Yeah.
So to go to where we're going now, to our new website company, and to be able to
see when they're on, to be able to see, take them literally from the very beginning,
all the way through the digital retail process online at home or in our showroom
because you do, they have the capability where they see the callbacks and everything
just the way they Autify did.
Are they able with your, are they able with your process to actually complete the
transaction and fully purchase the vehicle?
I can remote you sign.
There is, I've done it.
We sell cars.
I've sold cars in California, Iowa, Texas.
We have some pretty stringent verification processes.
You know, the biggest fear there would be fraud.
Um, and we have some very, very stringent, uh, processes to make sure that we are
dealing with these people that we're taking care of things that way.
But, well, listen, if I'm not willing to sell it online and, and deliver it to your
house, then we, we're doing something wrong.
And so I'll deliver anywhere in the United States.
They can complete it online.
They get to a point where they see the callback and at that point in time, the
finance manager or business manager will reach out to them and say, Hey, we have some
very specific state required paperwork.
Some states require what's insured.
Some don't.
And that's where it kind of gets in the weeds.
Uh, we're not that far yet to be able to do some of that.
We still need the finance manager to get involved, revisit products with them to
make sure that we have up.
So some people just say no, and they don't know what it is.
I mean, if you're not getting a maintenance package right now with the oil
shortage coming in, we need to re talk how you're presenting maintenance packages.
Yeah, but you know, they have to get involved.
A lot of the title work and state work kind of messes that up.
So yes, they can complete it on the outline.
Yes, we can send it to your house, deliver anywhere in the U S, but the
cool part is, is if you did show up, I want that to be the best part of the car
business is the people.
The worst part of the car business is the people.
Yeah.
And we need to remove ourselves from the situation when it needs to be.
I mean, you have a 700 750 credit score comes in with 20 grand down time as
your biggest enemy and why they, they probably did all of their research.
So, so what you're talking about is an increased level of transparency in a lot
of ways, right?
And there's a lot of, of dealers out there that would say, Hey,
transparent, parents, he kills gross.
They focus on that quote.
You say pencil, you clearly don't agree.
Right.
Um, do not in your model, how does being fully transparent, uh, help you hold
more close, faster versus the old school approach?
There is a first and foremost time kills deals.
We've known that that's true.
It's been true for as long as age old, right?
And now with transparency and whether you want to call it the perception or I
don't like the word illusion, but the perception of control by the customer.
Yeah.
Then they feel more comfortable.
And when you make a customer happy, laughing, comfortable, and they feel as
if they're in control, they're going to make the decision to move forward.
And I know it for a fact.
I mean, we, uh, we really focused it on this year, making sure we have the right
inventory and making sure our processes are tuned in with used cars and a lot of
that stuff, but it's interesting.
Cause one thing you and I talked about, we talked about it at a soda con at that
dinner was sales person efficiency.
You become very dedicated at grading and looking at what is sales person efficiency.
Tell us, John, how do you measure that, uh, whether they're efficient?
What's the metric?
What's the benchmark?
And what does a high performer at your store look like versus an average one?
Sales efficiency is not a term that's thrown around and I don't know why.
And I think at the dinner, I said, Hey, how do you know, you've been doing this
for a long time.
We talk tech efficiency, but we don't talk salesperson efficiency to your point.
Exactly.
They said, Hey, how do you grade your salespeople?
What, how do they get judged?
How do they get, what, what are they graded on?
And it's like, well, gross.
Okay.
So units don't matter.
We'll know they do.
Well, outbound activity doesn't matter.
We'll know that matters too.
Okay.
Well, how they handle their lead, that doesn't matter.
No, that does.
Um, what matters?
Cause if us as general managers, operating partners, COOs, whatever, if we don't
know what they're getting graded on, how did they know?
Well, we leave that out to sales managers.
Oh, great.
Um, that's going to work out real well.
So what I look at is we do measure techs, right?
We, you know, we have, uh, productivity and efficiency and
NAD, a king of proficiency.
And we look at those things, but most GMs, most operators look at.
Tech efficiency, shop efficiency.
They say, Hey, your number of hours in your Bay versus number of hours we should
go in and David along, and I had that conversation and he kind of inspired me.
And I created a metric based on three major things.
Which are broken down to subcategories and then they create a main score.
And so when a salesperson comes in, they sit down and I go, here are the things
you're getting judged on, and here's your benchmark.
And the crazy part is the, they are organized from most controllable to least
controllable.
So the salesperson can control how many phone calls, emails and texts they sent.
The crazy part is, is I measure them even for just like we try, measure
tech efficiency is your hours turned, right?
And I've done this exercise.
I can't tell you how many times, but I figured out an algorithm to measure how
many hours that are available as I call, um, activity hours.
And I kind of started a side company called Seth score, which is, which is
hopefully going to be pretty big, um, because I really believe in this.
And every GM I've talked to is like, you develop what really?
And to be able to say, Hey, Mr.
salesperson, you are this percentage efficient.
And this is how you get better.
Uh, and then to break it down to outbound activity, lead handling and output.
And then underneath each one of those is small metrics that matter.
But here's your main score is really, really valuable because you print that
list of what they're measured on when they walk in the door.
So John, a salesperson efficiency calls inbound, outbound.
What was the second metric?
So you have calls.
Well, you have outbound activity, which is outbound activity, outbound.
That's what I'm called texts and emails.
Okay.
And then that is the most controllable, right?
I don't need anything to happen.
Correct.
You're less controllable kind of middle thing is you're essentially
getting graded on, um, contact rate.
So we look at how many of your leads are actually, what's your
percentage of contact rate of how many, many of these leads
you actually have to a conversation with?
How many videos are you sending?
Uh, what's your total appointment set and your total appointment show?
Now those are less controllable because I need a lead to start working.
Yeah, I can't do anything until somebody sends, but once I have a lead,
I can get to a hundred percent based on that.
Right.
So if I create a better video, I write a better email, I engage better more than
just, Hey, you know, I called and it's a wrong number or Hey, I called.
They won't pick up.
It's how do I get to that engagement?
All right.
What's the final metric?
So the final metric is going to be out at your output, right?
So these, this is, in my opinion, the least controllable.
A lot of it has to do with whether the sales manager makes the deal or not,
or is there a good TO or how are, you know, there's a lot of customer things there.
So we're going to look at your total sales.
Okay.
Yeah.
We're going to look at your closury, your front PBR, back PBR, and your street purchases.
Okay.
Um, so those are outputs that are the least controllable, but, um, at the same
time it's listed in that fashion of most controllable to least controllable in
each one of those sections create the score and you have a score on each one of
those as well.
So the sales manager can literally go in and go, Hey, um, for instance, Josh,
and you can get over a hundred percent.
Just like a tech can be over a hundred percent efficient, right?
We expect you to make six calls per hour.
You've made seven point two.
You're a hundred and twenty percent effective in outbound calls.
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So John, how many sales people do you have among your three rooftops?
Mazda, Volvo and, uh, Volkswagen.
So currently we have 10.
Uh, so the Mazda and the Volvo, uh, showroom is combined and then
Volkswagen has their own showroom, but we're, again, we're kind of a one
property situation, so anybody can really kind of sell anything.
So thinking about April, well, who is your top, not by name, but your
top, uh, scoring sales consultant was at what and what was your bottom?
Uh, my top one was at 113% and the bottom one ran 58% and is not here.
Okay.
And is there a correlation between that hundred and 100 plus percent, uh, rating
at the end of the month and units and gross, uh, or are you driving towards that?
Like, are you looking for correlation between the scorecard and gross and
unit sales, or do you believe that ultimately the higher the rating, the
gross and the units will come?
So the higher the rating, the gross and units will come.
And at the same time, what I saw, because we deployed this about a month
and a half, two months ago, and I'm, like I said, I started the company.
I've already kind of designing an app for it so that all the sales managers
can have it immediately.
Um, I've started the protection process on all the algorithms on it, but that
being said, what I've noticed pretty immediately was the higher the score, the
better washout commission check the sales people got.
And if they're getting that, then guess who else is getting paid?
The sales managers, the GSM, my net line, my financial statement looks better.
It's a good thing.
And they kind of know where they're at and we run this once a week.
And the goal is once they get everything finalized is to be able to actually
run this daily and have them alert the top three and the bottom three.
Who do I praise?
Who do I coach?
Where are we at?
Um, and I've actually got it dialed in so far with expenses that the sales
people know exactly how much their chair costs per day.
And they look at their total growth and they're like, Hey, have they paid?
Uh, I think dinner, when I kind of told you about this, you said, you, it's
like a barber shop mentality.
Yes, it is.
Uh, I'm not going to run it that way.
That's kind of a stat because as a dealer, I, my expenses could be out of
whack, right?
Um, so that's not really their fault of my expenses are out of whack, but
it's nice to know, Hey, have you paid your rent?
Are you working hard?
Like I don't hold that in efficiency, but at the same time, it's kind of a cool
stat to know, and I've got three sales people right now that have paid their rent
for the month.
Why do you think in May of 2026, why is automotive never done this in the past?
Why have they not created a scorecard for sales people?
We've done it with technicians since the beginning of time.
We haven't with sales.
I don't have an answer for that.
When I started designing this, it was like, I don't know why nobody's done this
somewhere went up between me being a salesperson and which I was okay.
I was, I was a lot better in finance.
Um, somewhere in between me being a salesperson and then becoming a partner
and eventually dealer principal, I started judging the sales department and the
sales people on things they had no control over.
That's right.
Yeah.
Like gross to sales, net gross.
Like they don't care about that stuff.
That's not what drives them when they get up, but I'm judging them on it.
But I turn around and judge a technician on hours turned versus available hours for
the day, which ends up giving them a paycheck and lines the dealer's pocket.
So I don't understand how most of these GMs, general managers and
dealer principals and, and these guys, they came up a lot of them.
The most of the guys I meet again, the majority 51% or more, they climbed on the
variable side and yet they forget what it is to be a salesperson.
And it's not a shot in anybody.
I did it too.
Somebody looked and said, what are you scoring your guys on?
Yeah.
And here's the challenges for salespeople.
They want to know the expectation and they want to know at the end of that
expectation is a sale and is the gross to your point, right?
So by rewarding the behaviors that tend to lead to, to the, towards those, even
if it doesn't, you know, in month one or month two, if it does six months
down the road, if I'm focused on the right things, I will end up selling a
lot of cars and having fun and being successful and stay in the industry.
If I get frustrated because I'm trying to get to the end point, which is selling
a car and making gross, I'm going to get frustrated because I don't know the
steps it takes to get to that end point.
So I think there's a ton of wisdom in having a scorecard.
We'll be excited to have you back on the show.
Once this is six months and 12 months down the road, because I think it'd be
fascinating to see a correlation between the percent and the income for the
individual or the percent grade and, you know, units sold and flexibility with
schedule and, you know, the higher you get in that percentage, the more freedom
flexibility probably I would have as a sales consultant and the more income
I earn, I would assume, John.
Well, here's the crazy part too.
You take the same philosophy because I have a total store score based on
all the salespeople, right?
Because I'm amassing all this data.
Here's the great thing when you have 30, 40 stores in a platform, right?
You're pretty familiar with that.
Yeah, we have 41 stores.
We have over 400 salespeople across our locations.
How cool would it be for you to walk in and say, as a sales department, as a
total variable department, just like they do with shops, total efficiency in
shops, right, or in fixed?
How cool would it be for you to walk in and say, here's our five least efficient
variable operations departments.
Here's our top five most efficient variable operations.
Now, one of the biggest obstacles to that is integrated data.
So it's being able to pull the data points, whether it's calls inbound,
outbound, whether it's engagement with messages, whether it's quality of video
engagement with the video, and then ultimately the sale.
The sale, the gross, those are the two easiest, which I guess to answer my own
question, John, maybe the reason why we put so much focus on CSI units sold in
gross is those are the easiest scorecards to pull.
Some of the other earlier, more predictive of success are the toughest to
pull because they're across various platforms, John.
So yes, and I'm kind of lucky right now.
I'm still developing some of the operating software stuff of it, but I'm pretty
lucky right now because I can just have a CSV file sent out and I can kind of put
a web hook out there and kind of read some of the data off of a manual entry
sales law, but at the same time, your CRM is going to, your CRM is going to hold
the majority of this data.
A lot of your videos, stuff like co-videos now kind of CRM video for
Elieba makes it easy for me, but a lot of these CRMs are, have most of this
data housed in it or people are using and grabbing all that information from it.
So you can have the report sent, which is cool.
And I'm kind of figuring out how to get that done.
It's again, I get to cheat a little bit because I've got my stores and it's a
little bit easy to put the data in for me, but I'll tell you, I would think
it would be easy, but I, as an example and love CDK, we use them across our
auto group, we launch co-video with them, their CRM video.
And to this day, I still don't have enterprise group reporting on the video,
which to your point, if you don't have that group enterprise reporting, if I
can't pull that metric, that's a tough portion of the grade.
And I think it's an important indicator of success.
It's important to be able to say, Hey, of our 400 sales consultants across the
auto group, what percent are engaging in video?
What percent do a great job with video?
If I don't have access to that, I'm blind, John.
A hundred percent.
And so I actually have a report sent out to me for video of you stuff.
But again, with you, as long as their CRMs are separated by store, you could
have that sent to a CSB, who I got an API would grab it.
But the interesting thing is, is you guys, just like myself and my management
staff and the team I get to be a part of, we sent some of the benchmarks, right?
Hey, this is the PVR expect on the front.
This is the PVR expect on the back for salespeople.
They don't know.
Well, they're like, well, I just don't know.
You need the whole gross.
This is how you make a check.
This is, I expect 80% of the incoming phone calls and internet leads get a video.
You have their phone number.
You have their data.
80% So I calculate that out.
Well, this is what you should have sent.
Well, the crazy part is, is a lot of those appointment sets shows what you
should have sold are based on industry data.
So every person is different.
It's not like I'm going in and saying, Hey, you should sell 20 cars this month.
Well, based on the activity that you received, based on the activity you did,
this is what you should have sold and you're not there.
So what happened?
And you can literally sit down and coach off of that.
Now, as far as the data is concerned, yeah, it's, it's compiling that.
And that goes back to what I'm talking about with simplifying.
I'm going into one site handles everything.
And then literally I have essentially Apollo or one system that teaches talks to
E-Lead and talks to my X time and then comes back into CDK.
And so I literally have taken it from six or seven systems into one communicating
with two, which goes back to one.
So I've simplified it a lot.
And I think all the money we're spending because everybody's got their own fees
every time you use their system to be able to simplify it like that.
While developing and delivering a personalized experience to the customer,
because remember, if not what's easy for us, it's what's easy for the customer.
John, what's the platform you're using or the AI you're using technology to
aggregate all these data sources together?
So on June 2nd, I switched or June 1st, we switched to team velocity with
the full Apollo AI package.
We switched from VAUTO to VINQ, which has been absolutely awesome.
The hardest part about switching was changing 20 years worth of muscle memory
from VAUTO, but once you kind of get that down, it's awesome data.
They integrate directly into VINQ, which the whole AI thing, we've talked to,
I don't know who talked about it, or was it a SOTUCon or whatever, it really is
speed of information to the customer.
It doesn't matter that you have 3000 Google reviews at a 4.8.
When AI delivers it to the customer, it's going to say, you're highly recommended.
Here's the top five things people are saying.
Here's the top five things to look out for when you show up.
Hey, here's that dealerships process.
Yeah.
And so we are, as of a week from now, we are home to the 32nd actual cash
value for your vehicle, 60 second real quote.
And I'll stand behind it.
And we're going to...
60 second real quote.
Tell me what a 60 second real quote is.
You're going to be able to click on it, and it'll say it next to the
prices on the vehicle.
I think on our Mazda site, we have to have it in a specific spot in the
CTA stack, but it'll say 60 second quote, and you click on it, and it takes
you to that AI page that literally walks you through the deal, and you can submit
right there and get a bank approval right there.
The 32nd actual cash value for your vehicle, it takes it directly into our
VINQ system and appraises it right there.
I'm kind of piggybacking on some of the stuff that VINQ has been doing with
Brian Benstock on service.
Yeah.
We have an AI deployment, so as soon as they're checked in, actually the day
before they're checked in, if they have an appointment, our AI will reach out
and give them an actual appraisal for their service vehicle, 100% and serve
up to them replacement vehicles.
So you're removing all friction from the process, John.
60 seconds to a quote, 30 seconds to ACV.
What is your goal with doing that?
What do you see the future of automotive in your store in the next six months
or 12 months?
What are you driving towards in eliminating all that friction and delivering
a quote in 60 seconds?
I'm trying to move towards speed of information to the consumer.
They want it, they want it now, and they don't want to have to shop around
and call people and ask for numbers.
I'm going to put it in front of them and I'm going to put it fast.
And yes, is there a risk of a percentage of business that wants to
negotiate and negotiate hard that we lose that?
There is.
We can still follow up with them.
We can see if they left our site, but there was also an interesting stat put
out that for when you have frictionless and contactless transactions, customers
feel as if they got a 15% better deal on that same product.
Even though they possibly paid 10% more than they could have walking.
That two point example is a good one, right?
From earlier, the two point for their own bank, two point, uh, uh, add to their
is, uh, buy, buy, buy costs.
Exactly.
So it's, it's something where, um, if not necessarily about ease for my sales
people to do the transaction, it's about ease of the customer.
How easy can we make this transaction for the consumer?
Again, the most beautiful thing in the car business and one of my favorite
things being in it 20 years is the people.
I love the people.
Um, I, I have always loved the people in the car business.
They're awesome.
I mean, it's really made my dream and my life come true and it's awesome.
But part of the problem is, is we stand in the way from a transaction.
We make it bad.
So, we make it, John, are you, are you far enough down the road of implementing
this, the 30 and 60 seconds to, to know what the impact is?
Yeah.
So the 30 second to ACV, 50 seconds to quote and a full outlined sales
process on our website, we'll go live on June one.
Um, that's the plan.
We all have gone live with softwares and of course there's mistakes that
happen and things, you know, what's your web address?
So people can check it out, John.
So we'll have, uh, June one.
It'll be our main site is www.dogwoodauto.com.
And then I have Volkswagen of Winchester, Volvo cars, Winchester, and, um,
the dogwoodauto.com is the kind of main feeder page for the first time.
Since we've been open, it'll have all of our inventory on it.
You'll be able to kind of click into and get that 30 second ACV.
You'll be able to go to the OEM site and get the 60 second quotes on the
vehicles that go through AI.
Um, and again, in theory, June one, everything will be live in operational.
I'm sure some of the links won't work and we'll figure it out, but yeah, um,
in theory, June one, everything will be live in operation.
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See you inside.
So what you're doing is pretty revolutionary in terms of changing the
process from the way it's been to the way it is today.
And I'm curious in the short amount of time we have left, I'd love to understand.
You know, when you think about grading salespeople in a very different way,
when you think about engaging AI to remove friction, when you think about,
uh, empowering the consumer to kind of guide their own way through the process,
what does the manager layer look like in this model?
When the customer's more journey is more digital and transparent.
How does the sales manager's job change, John?
So, uh, my question to you, and I know the answer to this, because we were at one
a week and a half ago, is have you ever been to a restaurant?
Yes.
Yes.
And the manager comes by and says, Hey, I'm John.
I'm the manager here.
How's your service?
How's everything going?
What's going on?
Temperature, yeah.
And that's really what it needs to be.
Um, they walk in the door.
Hey, I'm the manager here.
You know, I know you're here to see Sam, but I just wanted to introduce myself.
If you have any questions or any problems with anything, just let me know.
I'm going to go over and take temperature checks, right?
EMI.
I'm not going in there to close customers.
I'm going in there to talk and make sure and take the pulse.
And if they're not ready to pull the trigger because they're in control of it,
I'm going over to make sure everything's okay.
Right.
Is everything okay?
Would you, did you not like the vehicle?
What's holding you up?
Yeah.
You got to go, you still got to go over and close it.
They're not willing to close, but, um, and you got a tent, but realistically,
you're removing a lot of the problems that we create by doing this route.
Um, is it foolproof?
No, but I'm interested in being a dealer of 20, 30 years from now too.
And part of the problem we have, we lost an entire generation of sales people
with COVID.
Yeah.
Well, they destroyed the valley.
They stopped learning.
They learned the wrong lessons during COVID.
A hundred percent.
They became order takers, making an ridiculous amounts of money, but people
paying ridiculous amounts of money for cars.
We never treated it.
We never trained them on how to do value building presentations.
All the old dogs that knew all the tricks retired because they finally made the
payday they were waiting for.
Yeah.
Um, there's a whole generation of sales people that started in the beginning of
2021 because they couldn't get a job anywhere else or they were stuck at home.
They didn't learn how to sell a car, build value in the presentation, build all
that stuff.
And then they show up and go, well, they're, I told them about the car.
They just don't want to buy it.
Well, did you go a layer deeper?
Did you ask them?
Well, they're, they don't know how to do that.
And we're not taking the time to train them.
So when we lay out, this is what a sales person's job looks like.
These are the scores we, these are the metrics we score on.
If you change this number, your paycheck will change.
That's a really, really strong thing to do.
And then we remove the untrained confrontational sales people from the
consumer facing situations and allow the consumer to take control of it.
Then there's a lot of possibilities there.
And the sales manager can really start to focus on four or five deals
simultaneously without missing a beat or having to sit there and, you know,
oh, can you pull this pay off?
Can you do this?
Can you do that?
Like the customer's been waiting for 15 minutes for a pencil.
I don't understand it.
Historically, they've created the friction.
So in this, it's watching the friction go away and it's temperature taking as
they go.
It's interesting.
You have, you're not a hundred percent owner yet.
You have a business partner that you're working to pay out.
Are you the first group store in your group to take this approach or in his
portfolio of stores that are buying him out?
And was there an objection or a, Hey, let's actually sit and think about this
for a minute before I fully execute on it.
Because you have changed in a drastic way from grading sales people to removing
the friction, the 30 to 60 second removes all the friction.
Was there an objection as you went to your partner and said, Hey, I got an idea.
What was the biggest objection, John?
So we had the first and foremost, Jim, um, I can honestly say, I don't know
if there's a better partner in the United States than Jim.
He is supporting, uh, he, I can call him any time and talk through things with
him.
Um, he really kind of allows me to figure out what the market is and, and
where direction we're going to go.
Uh, so I, we've had a couple of discussions about this and I started the
pencil, no pencil process about a year ago.
And I'm, I w I would venture to say, just talking to everybody that I'm
probably the most forward thinking guy in the group.
And so far as remove the friction and everything we've talked about, I am
the most forward thinking there.
How'd they respond?
Um, Jim was over, like his first, when I told him I'm going to the 32nd, the
62nd and all of this, I'm kind of taking that pencil list process and
moving it online and moving it to speed to customer.
His first thing was, well, you know, if you were doing four or 500 cars a
month, we should probably have a talk about this, but you know, you're still
growing and building the business.
I sit you up and he said, you know, you're doing everything I would do, which
is you're trying new things.
Yeah.
So yes.
And about two days later, I got an email about an article about AI and the
technology and what's happening in the automotive industry and this kind of
movement of shoppers and how the shoppers are changing and wanting the
speed of information and wanting that stuff.
And he literally wrote in the email, he's like, this article confirms everything
you just told me, keep that a great job.
And it's like, listen, I want to try new things.
If I'm not on the front edge of things, then yeah, so why are we here?
So the next, so the next question though is, is, did you, uh, have you trademarked
the process and as it works or as it proves itself out, are you able to get a
percent from the other partners?
That's the only, I'm kidding, of course, but that would, that would be a
first step for, yes, I have, for the sales efficiency, yes, I am, I already
have trademark for it, all that stuff.
That's actually a separate company that I'm allowed to kind of, that I'm running
the data, that's mine, but for Seth's score, yes.
For the rest of it, they, I think I'm a little bit of the, uh, the, the test dummy
here, where this seat goes, but John, last, last question up as we wrap up here
and thank you for being so generous with your time, cart dealership guy podcast.
So if, if a dealer principle is watching this and he's heard you describe
the different things, the sales, uh, rating process, the, uh, digital
retailing process start to finish and then the complete elimination of friction
in the process and that you're 30 to 60 second and this dealer says, you know
what, there's some things I need to fix and work on in my own group.
We need to fix our digital retailing.
We need to come up with a better way to grade salespeople in May or June of
2026, what's the first real step to take for a GM to head in the direction
you've gone, John?
So I, I actually have a worksheet that I created that re made me realize
how far off base we were.
And I, I said, the first step is to realize that the perception of what
you think should be happening or, or the perception of what the salespeople
should be doing way off of what they're actually doing.
Yeah.
Um, and I created kind of a measurement sheet and this is where I really
kind of tested my own theory of I put in what is it and how, hey, how many
phone calls do you think a salesperson should be able to make per hour?
How many, and I've done it probably five to eight times with gyms and they
are so far off.
I mean, I look at them and go, based on what you're telling me, your
store of eight salespeople should be making 10,000 phone calls a week.
Like that's not real.
Like that doesn't make sense.
And then it kind of hits them like, wow, I'm way off.
I'm not even setting realistic expectations or goals.
And then we kind of back into that.
Um, and that's, so that's the first realization is what you expect the
salespeople to be doing is not what they're doing.
And you have the first step is to, is to create realistic expectations.
It's to get a sense of what realistic is and then clearly express what
those expectations are.
Cause I think at the end of the day, salespeople want to succeed, but unclear
expectations make it tough to do so.
John Alcorn, Dogwood automotive group, operating partner.
Such a thrill to have you on the show today.
It's been fun to learn your metrics.
And then, uh, this, uh, commitment to this digital retelling process
start to finish excited to chart your progress over the coming months and
years, love to have you back on daily deal live.
And even this podcast to talk about it again.
John Alcorn, thanks for being on the show.
Thank you, Sam.
All right.
Hope you enjoyed that episode.
Please give the podcast a rating, consider subscribing to the show and
check the show notes for links to what we talked about.
Thanks for tuning in.
I'll see you guys next time.
About this episode
Jon Alcorn, operating partner at Dogwood Automotive Group, breaks down how dealership leadership, buyouts, and monthly reporting (“alumni”) connect to measurable performance. The conversation pivots to digital retail: moving from “pencil” deals to online-to-showroom workflows, speeding up quoting and ACV, and using transparency to improve customer comfort—while challenging the idea that “Your presence is your leverage.” They also compare lead handling and sales/tech scorecards, emphasizing integrated data and frictionless execution.
Today, Sam D'Arc is joined by Jon Alcorn, Operating Partner at Dogwood Automotive Group.
Winchester, Virginia's three-brand Dogwood Auto Group hasn't printed a paper pencil in over a year, yet grosses are up, and finance penetration sits at 89%.
Jon breaks down the two systems behind that shift: a salesperson efficiency scorecard that grades reps from 113% down to 58% on metrics they can actually control, and a digital retailing stack that will deliver a 30-second actual cash value and a 60-second real quote to every online shopper starting June 1.
Topics:
09:30 Why "Your Presence Is Your Leverage" Is A Lie.
10:00 The Day The Paper Pencil Died.
11:30 Why Customers Submit Their Own Credit.
18:00 Why Transparency Doesn't Kill Gross.
21:00 The Salesperson Scorecard Nobody Built.
30:00 Why Variable Ops Has No Efficiency Metric.
41:00 The Sales Manager As Restaurant Manager.
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