Reid Stormzand joins the discussion about his unique project of swapping a CBR1000 motorcycle engine into a Mazda Miata. The episode explores the advantages of this swap, including the lightweight engine and sequential transmission, while also addressing the challenges, such as the lack of reverse gear. Reid shares insights from his background in automotive fabrication and his work with ZZ Performance, where he contributes to building a world-record-holding ATSV drag car. The conversation dives into technical details of engine management, tuning, and the intricacies of performance builds, making it a fascinating listen for those interested in engine swaps and high-performance projects.
Many car enthusiasts have fantasised about a lightweight car with a motorcycle engine swap. After all, what’s not to like about a high-revving, lightweight engine that produces great power and sounds incredible, right?
Reed Stormzand from the YouTube channel Reed Make Car tells us that while the combo can be awesome, it definitely hasn’t been all plain sailing.
In this episode of Tuned In, Reed shares his journey into the automotive world, detailing his self-taught welding and fabrication skills as well as his day job at ZZ Performance.
We discuss his Cadillac ATS-V drag car, ZZ Performance’s involvement in pushing the platform forward, and their pursuit of the ¼-mile world record.
We also cover his CBR1000-swapped Miata, which started out naturally aspirated but is now turbocharged. Reed talks about the challenges of the swap, the intricacies of using a motorcycle engine in a car, and how he learned to tune—first on the stock Miata engine and now on the CBR1000 setup.
Reed never set out to become a YouTube car builder, but he’s built a solid following, and viewers clearly love his projects. His self-taught background, hard work, and willingness to learn by doing stand out as key takeaways. If you want to learn something, just start doing it.
0:00 Intro 3:35 How did you develop an interest in cars? 6:21 Can you talk to us about pulse TIG welding? 7:30 What does your day to day look like at ZZ performance look like? 11:21 Cadillac ATSV platform and chasing 1/4 mile world record. 22:03 Are there any limitations with HP tuners that are holding you back? 23:17 What boost are you running and how much power does the car make? 25:05 Do you set up your suspension and alignment for when the car is squatting? 28:39 How did the Miata with a motorcycle engine project come about? 31:18 Was there ever any other engines considered from the automotive world? 33:08 Is the gearbox strong enough and what are the challenges of running it in a car? 37:32 Is a motorcycle engine swap more complex? 40:24 What have you done with wiring and engine management? 43:16 Have you fitted a bigger set of injectors for fueling? 44:58 How are you controlling timing with the piggyback computer? 45:46 How much power did the bike engine make N/A and turbocharged? 46:29 Where are the limits of this engine's internal components? 46:48 Clutch and gear shifting 49:39 How do you go about tuning this platform when you don’t know the engine's limitations? 52:38 How is the driving experience with the motorbike engine compared to stock? 53:29 What’s the next step? FA20 BRZ 56:19 Let's wrap up the Miata, Are you doing the tuning? 58:35 Tell us a little bit more about your plans for the BRZ build? 1:06:56 Final 3 questions
"We also find out about his day job where he works for ZZ Performance and is also instrumental in the build and development of their ATSV drag car, which is currently I think number two in the world..."
ZZ Performance is a company that makes and improves race cars, especially for drag racing.
ZZ Performance is a specialty automotive performance company that designs and builds high-performance vehicles, particularly drag cars.
"You can always find our latest prize at hpacademy.com forward slash giveaway. It might be an aftermarket ECU or dash."
An aftermarket ECU is a new computer you can put in a car to change how the engine runs, like making it faster or smoother.
An aftermarket ECU (Engine Control Unit) is a replacement computer that manages engine functions like fuel injection and ignition timing, often used to tune performance or add features not available in the factory unit.
"But I did some auxiliary injection in the charge pipe, pre-throwed a body to get some extra fuel in there."
It’s a way to give the engine more gasoline by adding extra fuel in addition to what the main injectors provide, helping it run better or faster.
Auxiliary injection refers to adding extra fuel into the engine’s intake system, usually through a secondary injector or port, to increase power or compensate for limitations in the main fuel system.
"In stock form, you mentioned water to air intercoolers did obviously the sizing of those intercooler cores may have been problematic anyway."
Think of it like a tiny refrigerator for the air that goes into your car’s engine. It cools the hot air coming from a turbo or supercharger so the engine can run better and make more power.
A water-to-air intercooler is a heat‑exchanger that cools the intake air by passing it through a core filled with water, then letting the cooled air flow into the engine. It’s commonly used in high‑boost or drag racing setups to reduce intake temperatures and increase power.
"We haven't actually talked about boost levels and power."
Boost is extra air pushed into the engine by a turbo or supercharger. It’s measured in PSI, like how much pressure is added beyond normal air pressure.
Boost levels refer to the amount of additional air pressure added to an engine’s intake system by a turbocharger or supercharger, measured in pounds per square inch (PSI). Higher boost increases engine power.
"What about the rest of the platform in terms of drivetrain differential?"
The differential is a part of the car that lets each wheel spin at its own speed, which helps the car turn smoothly. It’s an important part of how power gets from the engine to the wheels.
The differential is a gear assembly that splits power between the drive wheels, allowing them to rotate at different speeds during turns. It’s a key component of the drivetrain that affects handling and traction.
Axles are the rods that connect each wheel to the car’s body and carry power from the engine to the wheels.
Axles are shafts that connect the wheels to the vehicle’s chassis, transmitting power from the drivetrain and supporting weight. They are fundamental components of a car’s suspension and steering systems.
The drive shaft is like a long axle that carries power from the transmission to the wheels. It’s what moves the car forward.
The drive shaft is a rotating component that transmits torque from the transmission to the differential, delivering power to the wheels. It’s a critical link in the drivetrain.
"If you're a fan of the podcast and you're interested in topics like engine tuning, automotive wiring, performance engine building, 3D modeling and CAD..."
It’s software that lets engineers draw and test parts on a computer before they’re made in real life.
3D modeling and CAD (Computer-Aided Design) are digital tools used to create detailed three‑dimensional representations of parts or assemblies for design and manufacturing.
"If you're a fan of the podcast and you're interested in topics like engine tuning, automotive wiring, performance engine building..."
It’s the process of changing how the engine runs to make it faster, smoother, or use less fuel.
Engine tuning involves adjusting the engine’s parameters—such as fuel mixture, ignition timing, and boost pressure—to optimize performance or efficiency.
"If you're a fan of the podcast and you're interested in topics like engine tuning, automotive wiring, performance engine building..."
It means putting together or upgrading a car’s engine so it can produce more speed and power.
Performance engine building is the process of assembling or upgrading an internal combustion engine to achieve higher power output, often involving aftermarket parts.
"[2495.0s] And I have a piggyback spliced into that ECU."
A piggyback ECU is a small computer you add to your car’s existing engine computer. It lets you change how the engine runs, like adding more power or making it run smoother, without having to replace the original part.
A piggyback ECU is an aftermarket device that sits alongside the factory engine control unit (ECU) to modify or add functions such as boost control, fuel mapping, or other performance tweaks without replacing the original ECU.
"Obviously when you're turbocharging an engine, the fueling is critical, but so is the ignition timing."
It’s like giving your car a boost by sucking in extra air so the engine can burn more fuel and make more power.
Turbocharging is a method of forcing more air into an engine’s combustion chamber using exhaust-driven turbines, increasing power output without enlarging the engine size.
"How has that been dealt with with this piggyback? Are you modifying the ignition timing and retarding it with boost?"
It’s the timing of when the spark plug lights up inside the engine; getting it right helps the car run smoothly and powerfully.
Ignition timing refers to the exact moment when the spark plug fires in relation to the piston’s position, crucial for efficient combustion and engine performance.
"I'm actually not retarding any timing right now because I'm running such low boost pressure."
Boost pressure is how much extra air a turbo or supercharger pushes into the engine. More boost usually means more power.
Boost pressure refers to the amount of air forced into an engine’s combustion chamber by a turbocharger or supercharger, measured in psi or bar. Higher boost increases the engine’s power output.
"because obviously when you change the airflow into the engine with the cam timing,"
The camshaft controls when the engine’s valves open and close. Changing its timing can make the car run smoother or faster, but it needs careful tuning.
Cam timing refers to the precise moment when the engine’s camshaft opens and closes the intake and exhaust valves. Adjusting it changes airflow timing, affecting power, efficiency, and emissions.
"[3584.0s] But the manifold that they made was all fully welded.
[3606.0s] What sort of considerations do you have around how to deal with manifold expansion and contraction as it heats up and cools down?"
A manifold is like a pipe that sends air to each part of the engine’s cylinders. It’s made solidly here so it doesn’t have loose parts that could break.
The manifold is the component that distributes air (or fuel and air) from the intake system to each cylinder in an engine. In this context it’s a fully welded, short unit designed for a horizontal opposed engine.
"[3591.0s] And obviously on our horizontal opposed engine, you've got quite a long run from one side to the other.
[3596.0s] That was a low mount kind of like you're saying there."
A horizontal opposed engine is a type of engine where the cylinders lie flat on either side of the car, like a pair of pistons moving in opposite directions. It keeps the engine low and smooth.
A horizontal opposed engine, also known as a flat or boxer engine, has cylinders arranged in two banks on opposite sides of the crankshaft. This layout lowers the center of gravity and reduces vibration.
"So yeah, maybe 300 wheel horsepower. And then maybe later I'm sure I'll get the edge and probably throw some rods in it or something and try to make 400."
Wheel horsepower tells you how much power actually reaches the wheels, not just what the engine makes. It’s a useful number for comparing real-world performance.
Wheel horsepower is the power measured at the vehicle’s wheels, accounting for losses in the drivetrain. It’s typically lower than engine (gross) horsepower because of friction and gear ratios.
"The only other thing I would say about them is fourth gear in those gearboxes is a massive weak point."
A gearbox is the part of a car that lets you change gears, like shifting from low to high speed. It helps the engine run efficiently at different speeds.
A gearbox is a mechanical assembly that transmits power from the engine to the wheels, allowing the driver to select different gear ratios for varying speed and torque needs.
The CBR‑1,600 is a fast motorcycle made by Honda. It has a strong engine and good handling, making it a favorite for people who like riding fast bikes.
The Honda CBR‑1,600 is a high-performance sport motorcycle known for its powerful inline‑four engine and advanced electronics. It was produced in the early 2000s and is popular among enthusiasts for its balance of speed, handling, and technology.
Intro
How did you develop an interest in cars?
Can you talk to us about pulse TIG welding?
What does your day to day look like at ZZ performance look like?
Cadillac ATSV platform and chasing 1/4 mile world record.
Are there any limitations with HP tuners that are holding you back?
What boost are you running and how much power does the car make?
Do you set up your suspension and alignment for when the car is squatting?
How did the Miata with a motorcycle engine project come about?
Was there ever any other engines considered from the automotive world?
Is the gearbox strong enough and what are the challenges of running it in a car?
Is a motorcycle engine swap more complex?
What have you done with wiring and engine management?
Have you fitted a bigger set of injectors for fueling?
How are you controlling timing with the piggyback computer?
How much power did the bike engine make N/A and turbocharged?
Where are the limits of this engine's internal components?
Clutch and gear shifting
How do you go about tuning this platform when you don’t know the engine's limitations?
How is the driving experience with the motorbike engine compared to stock?
What’s the next step? FA20 BRZ
Let's wrap up the Miata, Are you doing the tuning?
Tell us a little bit more about your plans for the BRZ build?
Final 3 questions
Select text to request an explanation
I always just thought that, you know, that was like the coolest swap I'd ever seen. If you like small engines or four cylinders, you know, you always want them to rev higher and higher. That's like one of the things that you shoot for. And then on top of that, the sequential transmission. And when I realized you could get both those with Honda reliability for $6,500, it was kind of a no-brainer.
And in this episode, we're joined by Reid Stormzand, who has basically gone ahead and done what I'm imagining a lot of us listening have thought about from time to time, and that's jamming a Sportbike engine into a Mazda MX-5 or Miata, if you're from the US.
On paper, this seems like a matchbait in heaven. You've got a lightweight car that's already well known for its handling, and then you're pairing this with an incredibly light engine that also makes great power.
Obviously, it's not all plain sailing, though. And there's a lot of intricacies that go into putting a motorcycle engine into a car.
We see, one of the advantages is it comes equipped with a six-speed sequential gearbox, which is kind of every where race is dream.
The downside of that is relatively significant in so much as there's clearly no reverse gear in a motorbike. That's kind of a bit of a problem sometimes when it's a car application.
We learn about Reid's background and how he's built up the skill set to perform this engine swap essentially single-handedly.
We also find out about his day job where he works for ZZ Performance and is also instrumental in the build and development of their ATSV drag car, which is currently I think number two in the world and within sight of breaking the world record.
Before we jump into our chat, for those who are new to the tune and podcast, High Performance Academy is an online training school.
We specialize in teaching people how to build performance engines, how to tune EFI, how to construct wiring harnesses.
We also cover topics on fabrication, 3D modeling and CAD, race driver education, and data logging just to name a few.
You can find all of our courses at hpacademy.com forward slash courses. All of these courses are delivered in a high definition video modules that you can watch from anywhere in the world provided you've got an internet connection.
This means you can learn from the comfort of your own place and you can learn at your own pace. All of our courses also come with a 60-day no questions asked money back guarantee.
So if you purchase them for any reason at all, decide it wasn't quite what you expected. No problem, let us know. We'll give you a full refund.
And for podcast listeners, you can also use the coupon code podcast 75. That will get you $75 off the purchase of your very first HPA course.
We'll put the coupon code in the show notes to make it nice and easy for you to find.
Lastly, if you like free stuff, then I've got a great deal for you. We are constantly partnering with some of the biggest names in the aftermarket performance industry to give away some great prizes.
You can always find our latest prize at hpacademy.com forward slash giveaway. It might be an aftermarket ECU or dash. It could be some engine components or engine building tools or just about anything in between.
They are great prizes and we will ship them free of charge to your door if you're the winner. There's no tricks here, no purchase required to get your name into the drawer.
Enough with our introduction. Let's get into our interview now. Welcome to the podcast. Read Thanks for joining us today.
And as always, let's start by diving into your background, specifically how you develop an interest in cars.
Thanks for having me. Let's see my background. Right now, I work at a place called ZZ Performance here in Michigan. I'm a welder fabricator for them.
We sell mainly online, but we do some in-person stuff. It's like small engine GM cars, like 3,800 ecotech, Chevy Sonix.
We're getting into the like 4-cylinder Cadillacs, 6-cylinder Cadillacs, stuff like that. I'm actually, I have some videos on my channel, but I'm actually helping build our ATS-V drag car, which has the LF4 V6.
And we are chasing the quarter-mile world record with that car. And the quickest we've gone is a 8.82 in the world record sits at 8.77.
So we're pretty close to that. Yeah, that's something, right? Yeah, that's been a pretty fun project, but how I actually got into cars was pretty much just from the internet and YouTube.
I don't have a college degree or any formal training. Basically everything that I've learned has come through my own trial and error or from the internet.
So that's including your fabrications go sit that's also self-taught? Yes. So when I got, I started working at ZZP probably about five years ago.
I knew how to weld, but I had some senior employees there really, really show me the ropes and kind of dial it in.
With your welding, what type of welding you're doing? Is this mega-tagled both? All-tag. Yeah, AC and DC-tag. So we're doing, you know, exhaust systems and intakes and intercooler systems and stuff like that.
So it was definitely a definitely good practice. I'm like, then Wal-Tubing and whatnot.
What did you sort of find the challenges when you were sort of working it out by trial and error with TIG welding? Because it is, I think it's much more complicated than MIG, which is kind of a point and shoot sort of method.
Yeah, there's a lot to the machine set up with the TIG much more complicated than MIG. So I kind of, from my own experience, if you've got your settings on your machine wrong, no matter what you're doing, you're not going to get a good result.
Yes, and no, at least for me. I mean, as far as, like, if you're pulse welding, yeah, that's a lot of that's down to the settings. But I mean, the main settings for DC, if you're just welding free-head, you know, is your amperage and then setting up your torch, you know, the cup size and the argon flow and the tungsten stick out.
But yeah, if your settings on pulse aren't dialed in, then yeah, you can mess some things up.
A little sort of down in the weights here, but as soon as you bring it up, can you talk to us a little bit about pulse welding, what that is and what it actually achieves?
The way I kind of think about it, the way I was taught is that pulse welding is generally used for thin materials where you're trying to keep the heat out of it to stop from shrinking and warping.
So basically what it is is as you weld, you're going to have a main on pulse where you're going to get a lot of amperage, you know, the puddle is going to act like a normal weld, but it's only going to be for maybe about a half second or so.
And then the weld is going to have an off pulse. It's not going to go completely off, but the the amperage is greatly reduced.
Yeah, it's the puddle is not going to be melt anymore. So you're basically welding, you know, you're on, off, on, off.
To find using a pulse method like that helps you with your timing of adding filler into the weld puddle to get a more consistent sort of stacked on look to your welds.
When I pulse, I usually just pulse read over the rod, I hold the rod in the weld joint and pulse read over it and kind of weld both sides in the rod at once.
So with your worker ZZ performance, what is a fabricado you're actually doing there? What's your sort of day to day look like?
Day to day is if I'm not working on the the ETSV drag car, I'm in the production fabrication shop. So we're doing large runs of parts, batch quantities. That's that's how we cannot, you know, do it for a little less, make a big quantity at once.
But we're building exhaust parts to jigs basically, you know, you got a flange on either end and then you got to connect them somewhere with a tube.
I just give us a sense of the scale of this business, you know, how many employees are the I think we have around 50 employees. So we have, I guess this is a big operation.
Yeah, we have like five full-time fabricators, bunch of people in our need apartment. You know, we have like three tuners. It's a pretty big, pretty big operation.
It's an interesting business model. Everyone sort of in that GM world is sort of gravitated towards the alias platform, which is the big dog. So why is ZZ performance sort of gravitated towards the smaller displacement, smaller cylinder count engines?
Well, ZZP got their start with the 3800 engine in the Grand Prix. That was that was their bread butter back in the day.
They started racing the the superchargers ones and then they started going into turbocharging them, sending records, winning races.
So and then after that, they they branched off into the four cylinder, ecotech cars, like the cobalt and same thing, you know started started breaking records started winning races.
So I think that's that's always been ZZP's bread butter is a small engine stuff. The markets aren't as saturated, which allows us to kind of take over a market, if you will.
Yeah, I guess that's a valid point. The alias market is is very well saturated at this point. There's there's hundreds, if not thousands of performance workshops around the world, making parts and tunes for them.
So I guess you've you've got a market largely to yourself.
Yeah, mostly, so that's nice.
So in terms of the work that you're doing for ZZP performance, are you involved at all with developing new parts or are you purely sort of a production phase just building exhaust or components on jigs.
So me personally, I'm slightly involved in the R&D department. My main task right now is that ATSV drag car.
Like when ATSV comes in the shop, we will, we'll 3D scan the undercarriage of it and we'll get all the locations so we can drop our own exhaust system and CAD.
We have a CNC two-bender. We'll bend it up, weld it up, and then see how it performs and see how it sounds, which something interesting about those cars actually is, I don't know what it is with that V6.
But if you do not have a crossover or some sort of merge in that exhaust system, they're just raspy and they do not sound good.
So ZZP was actually the first to put an H-pipe in the downpipes on that platform, which is pretty cool.
And that fixes that rasp.
Oh yeah. So it's an H-pipe between the downpipes and then it goes down and merges again with an X and then leaves the rear of the car.
Okay. I can only imagine having access to a CNC bender makes your life a lot easier with production runs.
So to assume that everything just comes off that CNC bender absolutely perfect ready to go.
Yeah, mostly. Sometimes the, well the bender has its limitations. Like for example, bands can't be within six inches of each other.
You need a minimum six-inch leg length between each band. So sometimes we'll have to take some bands and cut them and do some butt joints.
But yeah, it definitely helps with our production having that machine.
We'd like to sort of dive into this ATSV drag car a little bit, seeing as you've mentioned it.
So you obviously as you mentioned, very, very close to that world record.
Let's start, I guess at the start though, for those who don't know what an ATSV is, can you give us a bit of a rundown on the platform?
Yeah, I believe they started production in 2016. It's a Cadillac ATSV. It's Alpha chassis. I think it's called, but it's a factory.
It's a 3.6 liter V6 twin turbo. It's got an 8L 90 automatic 8 speed transmission behind it.
And actually in stock form can make quite a bit of horsepower. We're making north of 600 on stock turbos. So that's pretty exciting.
Yeah, OK. So what was the sort of the basis for building this into a drag platform?
Is this kind of a proof of concept to get ZZ performances name out there for the platform?
Yes, that's exactly what it is. So we want to break the world record and hold the world record of the fastest and quickest ATSV in the world in the quarter mile.
All right, we'll talk just about that journey. Sort of what modifications have you had to go down? I mean, I'm aware, obviously, if you're chasing world records, there might be a bit of IP that you want to keep to yourself, which is absolutely fine.
But at a high level, what's been involved in developing that car?
Well, the first thing we bought an auction car that had some front end damage. And those cars stock have air to water intercooler systems on them.
So they have all these heat exchangers in the front for that. And you know, they have the core on top of the engine.
Well, this car worked out great for what I want to do for it because, like I said, it was it was racked in the front.
So I didn't need any of those heat exchangers because I was going to go air to air with a big single turbo.
So I grabbed a naturally aspirated intake manifold because those engines came in different cars as 3.6 liters NA engines.
So I put one of those intake plenums on and then I mounted a big single turbo up front with an air to air set up on it.
And then we got to tune in it. A problem with those is their, their DI, obviously.
So you're, you're kind of limited with your, with your fuel system, which is unfortunate.
But I did some auxiliary injection in the charge pipe, pre-throwed a body to get some extra fuel in there.
And that seemed to work out pretty good.
So it's with a lot of direct injected engines, not a lot of options off the shelf for larger size injectors.
Yeah, we have some XDI injectors in there, but what we're running into is the pump selection.
The high pressure, high pressure fuel pump selection is poor.
And if someone does make one for it, they're not very reliable.
So yeah.
So better to augment the DI with poor injection or auxiliary fuel injection.
Yeah.
Basically, that's what we're, we're kind of stuck with right now.
Okay.
So a few bits I just want to dig back into in a bit more detail.
In stock form, you mentioned water to air intercoolers did obviously the sizing of those intercooler cores may have been problematic anyway.
But for a drag application to do consider retaining a water to air with like an ice bath.
It's pretty, pretty typical for drag racing.
We can actually get that water down below ambient temperature.
Obviously, already any good for a short run like drag racing.
Yeah, I considered it, but when you look at the, just the ease of plumbing an air to air.
If you get a big enough core and get enough airflow through it, it's going to work.
So that's what I went with.
Sure.
And in terms of turbo selection, what was the, the driver behind going big single versus upgrading the twins?
Oh, that's just something that I kind of prefer was a big single.
I mean, they already come stock with twins.
So I thought it'd be cool to do something different and put a big single on there.
So does that create some complexities for you around the fabrication, particularly with the exhaust manifold routing?
A little bit, but those engines actually have had a folds.
So it's a single exit exhaust port on each cylinder head.
Okay.
And in terms of the engine itself, I can only assume that's been built to handle the additional power and stress that you're putting on it now.
Actually, it's not really that built.
The factory rods are titanium.
We were running stock pistons.
The main problem with those engines is crank flex that we're really fighting.
So we've tried to mess with different bearing clearances for the center to main journals.
We're looking into doing a girdle.
But yeah, it likes to, likes to eat main bearings because that crank is, is moving a lot.
I assume it's still a forged crankshaft in stock form.
Yeah.
We're actually two is the main caps are walking.
We've been seeing some aluminum transfer under the steel caps, which is pretty crazy.
Yeah, I think it's easy when you've got an engine on the workbench to assume that everything's nice and rigid.
But when you're making a lot of power and revving these things, it's more like a sort of a wet noodle flopping around sometimes.
What is going to be the next step to resolving the bearing issue?
We have a billet crankshaft on order right now, so we're going to try that.
And hopefully that doesn't noodle like you were saying.
Yeah, I can.
So cylinder heads and head gasket ceiling, is that all still stock or is that need work as well?
That's actually the last time at the drag strip after I ran that 882 pass.
I did blow a head gasket due to what I think was some knock on cylinder three,
which is unfortunate because we're just having a hard time getting a lot of alcohol in the fuel with limitations of the DI system.
We have to run more gasoline because you need less of it, obviously.
So running into some knock and it blew the side of the head gasket out.
So the next build we're going to go more layers on the gaskets, head studs,
and then we're going to try to try to add some ethanol into the fuel and see if we can limit some of that knock.
So let's talk a little bit about the fuel.
So I assume when you're saying alcohol percentage as you're talking an ethanol blend.
Yeah, so you can't run E85 or E98 because of the DI.
So where have you sort of got yourself in terms of ethanol content?
We've been running like E50.
Typically, I find that you get, it's almost, it's a very non-linear scale when you go from pure pump gas to pure ethanol.
I find by the time you get passed about 35, maybe 40% ethanol, you've sort of got, I would guess here,
probably 80% of the benefits of ethanol.
And from that sort of point through to 100% ethanol, the gains are there but they're much less significant.
You're probably in a pretty good, in pretty good shape if you're around E50 anyway.
How are you going about controlling the additional fuel that you're adding in the charge pipe?
I have two injectors in the charge pipe that are basically pulsing on off with a AM pump controller.
So it just kind of ramps up based on math.
It ramps the duty cycle higher and higher as that math sweeps up.
How well was that sort of controlling your, if you're ratio, if you sort of did a full ramp run on your dyno,
are you able to get pretty good control of the, if you're ratio or is it sort of a bit hit in this?
We have pretty good control over it.
We basically leave the arcs on, we don't touch the arc settings and then we dial it in with the DI tuning on HV tuners.
And HV tuners gives you full support for every aspect of the tuning on that platform.
Yeah.
What about transmission, why is he still running the stock auto?
Yeah, we're still running the stock transmission.
We're having difficulty getting it to shift hard, I guess, for lack of a better term.
Basically what's happening is to make the power on the engine side that we're making,
we have to scale the torque back in the ECU.
So the ECU is recording or showing less torque than we're actually making.
So it's not given the transmission, the line pressure that we would like.
So the transmission essentially thinks that the engine torque is lower than it really is.
Correct.
Yeah.
So with the transmission seeing essentially a lower torque figure, what's the implications on that?
The line pressure you set is lower, so it's just not shifting quickly.
Just sloppy shifts, and it's probably hurting some of our ET.
And it's probably going to, you know, burn up the clutches eventually.
Any work around for this in the future?
We're exploring a 8 HP swap.
Okay.
What would be involved in an 8 HP swap into that platform?
A standalone transmission controller for the 8 HP.
Does that still need some input, though, from the factory engine control unit?
You can use CAN bus for that.
You can feed it torque and whatnot, or you can just run it without that, you know,
and have it see, you know, RPM and throttle position and just the basic inputs for a transmission.
I think that the 8 HP swap sort of at the moment gaining a lot of momentum.
I personally haven't experienced one, but from everyone I talk to, it gives you the best of both worlds.
A gearbox that's basically bulletproof and shifts as fast as sequential dog box,
but then you put it in auto mode and you're basically driving around in a modern BMW.
I guess from a perspective of supporting this platform and shooting for world records,
do you sort of have to consider how far away you move from the stock platform,
you know, a gearbox swap, for example?
Does it make at least relevant to potential customers?
Well, luckily for us, we have several ETSVs that are built at different levels.
So my car is like the all out drag car, but then we have other more streetable cars
that we can show customers, hey, this is where you can do with stock turbos.
This is where you can do with upgraded turbos and upgraded fuel system.
You know, you might only run, you know, mid-nines, but the car is actually streetable.
A mid-nines streetcar is a very fast car.
Yeah.
With HP Tuners, are there any limitations?
I'll rephrase the question.
I think when it comes to deciding between a standalone ECU and reflashing a factory ECU,
that line is not very black and white these days.
You can kind of just about do anything you want with a reflash package,
where I find often it makes more sense to switch to a standalone is for dedicated motorsport,
because you can have controls for things like launch control, traction control, etc.
Yeah, so on that basis, is there any limitations in turning using the HP Tuners platform
that's sort of holding you back?
I would say, like you said, with the launch control, and you know,
to ramp and boost with time, or a lot of things that these serious drag racers are doing these days,
is a little bit of a limitation, but I think at the same time,
if we can run, you know, 850s on the stock ECU with HP Tuners,
I think that is kind of more impressive than just wiring in a standalone
and just having it kind of be easy, if you will.
So I think there is something to say about that as far as, you know, kind of bragging rights,
I guess, for our in-house Tuners.
Sure.
Yeah.
We haven't actually talked about boost levels and power.
What was it running?
It runs 32, 33 PSI.
I mean, we only dinoed it up to, I think, 20s.
It made like, right around 800 wheel horsepower at 26 PSI.
So we're probably right around 1000 right now at, you know, 32, 33 PSI.
Are you doing anything in terms of boost control down the track and I'm talking here,
sort of speed or gear dependent boost to sort of get that power to the track?
Now we're just running a manual boost controller and it gets the same boost for the whole pass.
All of the boost, all of the time.
Yeah.
All right, so what's the next step to get you down to these 850s?
Well, we gotta get into the, in the 870s first.
We need to end in the whole together.
So there are still a couple of events left this year.
We're gonna get some cooler air and hopefully we can at least get the record this year and then try to go faster next year.
So ultimately, you're being held back at the moment by the bearing reliability,
which you mentioned with the crank flex.
Yeah.
Okay.
What about the rest of the platform in terms of drivetrain differential?
Is that something that is reliable in stock form, even at these sort of 880s, 870 mark?
Yeah.
It's like I said, start transmission, start drive shaft, start differential, start car axles,
the fastest I went to a 64 was 132.
And yeah, we haven't knuck in what I haven't broken in driveline components.
So it's pretty impressive.
That's actually insanely impressive that a stock components are reliable,
which is seemingly reliable at that sort of 80 mile an hour.
That's a real credit to them, I think.
Suspension wise, this is something I actually saw on your YouTube channel.
And I think it's something that a lot of people drag racing over look when you've got an independent rear suspension.
You're actually looking at what's happening to the alignment when the car's squat incorrect.
Yeah, all summer we've been racing it.
And it just steers left really hard after the launch and we couldn't really figure it out.
And we decided to take it to an alignment rack and put a ratchet strap on the back and strap it down
and see if it was towing out or doing anything weird during that launch, like you're saying.
And it actually surprisingly, the alignment didn't change much during the squat.
But we ended up putting some toe in in the rear under that squat
and it seems to drive a lot more straight now.
So it doesn't actually see a lot of essentially bump steer between static ride height and when it's squatting.
Correct. Yeah, I mean GM obviously is, you know, they know what they're doing.
So I'm not really surprised that there is no rear bump steer.
But like I said, I'm pretty sure that toe in on the back definitely helped.
Yeah, I would imagine that would definitely help it track straighter.
One of the things we did exactly the same with my own drag car and EVO 9 we built as well.
And it was more about the camber change actually for us.
Trying to set it up essentially with zero camber at the ride height it squats to during the launch.
So at that point, which is obviously the most critical, we've got the most rubber contacting the track.
And I think that does help but you sort of starting to get down into the weeds with very small improvements.
But anything you can do to shave a tenth off to the 60 foot is going to pay dividends at the deep end.
Would you would you ultimately look at swapping this to a standalone or you do want to just carry on and see how much bragging rights you can get on a reflash platform?
Yeah, we're going to stick with HB tuners. I mean, that's what our tuners know and that's what we do.
Yeah, fair enough.
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Alright, let's get back to the episode.
Alright, well I think you came on our radar and the first place was actually another project card that I wanted to talk about, which is your master Miyada,
with a motorcycle engine in it and a turbocharger. So let's dive into that project. How did that project actually start and what was the use case for the car?
The project actually, I didn't know this, but the project actually started probably about 10 years ago.
I didn't even own a Miyada, but I was watching, like I said, you know, I got in the course from YouTube and I was watching a lot of YouTube.
And a video popped up on Jay Leno's garage and it was Matt Brown with his CBR 1000 swapped S600 or N600.
It's like a old Honda convertible, like 60s tiny car. And I always just thought that, you know, that was like the coolest swap I'd ever seen.
I mean, it's if you like small engines or four cylinders, you know, you always want them to rev higher and higher and higher.
That's like that's like one of the things that you shoot for. And then on top of that, the sequential transmission.
And when I realized you could get both those with Honda reliability for 6,500 bucks, it was kind of a no brainer.
So 6,500 is what you have to pay for a road going CBR 1000 RR.
Yeah, right around there. But yeah, so I had the Miyada, I bought one and kind of tinkered around with a little bit.
I ended up turbocharging the 1.8 liter BP engine in it. It made like a 180 horsepower. It was on a piggyback ECU.
And you know, I kind of just did the standard, you know, what everyone does. You do a turbo kit and then you want more power.
So you do ethanol and then you do a bigger turbo. And basically my time I was done with it was built engine.
It was standalone ECU, all this stuff. It made like 450 wheel horsepower.
I would say that's a pretty healthy Miyada.
Yeah, but the thing about me that don't think a lot of people appreciate is I like to build stuff more than I like to drive stuff.
So when I was done with it, it basically just sat in my garage. I didn't drive it. And there was nothing else left to wrench on.
There was no more upgrades to do. So I ended up partying that out and the chassis, the rolling chassis just sat in my garage for like a year.
That's when I started working at ZZP. I started looking around and saying, oh, I got, I got access to CNC machines in a lathe in a mill.
And I know how to weld now. So that's where I kind of went back to that brown video that I had seen 10 years ago.
And thought, oh, you know, it's not as light as his car, but I bet I can get the same pretty light.
And that's why I decided to give it a shot.
With the ever any other engines that were considered from the automotive world as opposed to motorcycle world, or did you have your heart set on doing this CBS?
Well, I knew that obviously there's just about any engine under the sun has been put in a Miyada at this point in time.
Yeah, basically the problem for me with the original Miyada build was I didn't feel like I built it.
It's basically just bolting on parts that other people had made.
So for the next iteration of the car, I really wanted to do something that no one could just buy a swap kit for, you know, not that no one's ever done it because other people have before, like I said, but I wanted to basically challenge myself and come up with something that was hard to do and that no one else could easily replicate.
So that's why I went down the motorcycle route.
And you're choosing from available sport bikes, there's options there.
I would imagine probably high booster swaps are maybe some of the more common.
Again, would there any other motorcycle engines that you considered and if not what was it about the CBR 1000 that just made sense to you?
I kind of had my headset on a CBR from the beginning just because I knew it was possible from that Matt Brown car.
I knew it could be done with enough time and money.
And then the cost those high boosts are getting up there in price compared to like a CBR or Yamaha R1.
And I just like the sound of a flat plane crank.
Like when I envisioned or or here in my head, a one liter sport bike, I hear a CBR 1000.
Like I hear that flat plane crank, you know, screaming to 13,000.
So that's why I went with that.
I think a lot of people consider a motorcycle engine swap for the benefit of getting yourself essentially a free six-speed sequential gearbox that comes along with it.
But of course there are some problems in that motor bikes don't have a reverse gear.
Also, I'd sort of consider maybe the weight of the car versus the weight of a sport bike would be potentially problematic for reliability of the transmission.
Talk us through some of those complexities and how dealt with them.
So those are all fair points, but I figured I could get the car.
I ended up getting the car down to 1,500 and 21 pounds.
You know, that was wet, that was the driving weight with the engine and everything.
So, you know, that's still three times the weight of the motorcycle that the engine and transmission came in.
But to lessen the load on the drive train, I changed the final driver ratio.
So the motorcycle is a 2.6 to 1 final driver ratio and that's with, you know, the sprockets and the two's counting all that.
So I sent the power back to a Miata differential that has a 3.3 ring opinion.
So basically, what I like to tell people is something easy to think about is I traded top speed for acceleration, basically.
So we, does that gearing automatically leave you?
I think I saw in one of your video's first gears about 60 miles an hour.
Is that about right?
Yeah, the gearing on the bikes is kind of weird because the first gear is so long and I think they do that.
Because if the first gear was a normal ratio, it would be so torquy that the bike would just, you know, flip over on itself with any throttle input.
So, you know, first is about 60 mile an hour and then the top speed is like 130.
So the rest of the gears are pretty short in there.
Yeah, yeah, that's nice and nice close gearing for sure.
In terms of adapting, again, the motorcycle is running a chain drive and sprockets.
So how did you go about adapting that sprocket output from the transmission to a drive shaft, a commuter drive shaft?
So basically, if you're sitting on the bike, the sprockets going to be down by your left leg and it's going to be turning forward, driving that rear tire forward.
And then when I put it in the car, I rotated the engine so that normally the sprocket would sit or the output of the transmission is now facing directly rear in the car towards the differential.
And then to adapt it to a drive shaft, there's actually, they're called dwarf cars over here.
It's like a dirt circle track racing and they're these tiny little like many sprint cars, I guess.
And they all run these one liter bike engines and they sell sprocket to drive shaft adapters.
And that's exactly what it sounds like.
The one end has female splines that goes on the output shaft of the trans.
And then it's got four female threads for a drive shaft like a U-joint.
Okay. Easy as?
Well, were there any other sort of, actually before we go further, the reverse gear issue, I know that you actually haven't resolved this in your car, so there is no reverse.
Have you given any consideration to adding one and if so, how would you go about that?
Well, I could either do quave makes a reverse box that's just a one to one chain drive.
I think it's like lever actuated or something.
So I could put that like in the trans tunnel to reverse the direction of the shaft.
I've considered that.
I've also considered letting like a starter motor and like a big gear or something on the face of the rear diff and running backwards, but that would require probably a bigger battery.
Well, yeah, like you said, I don't have reverse.
It is, I don't know, I don't drive the car a whole lot.
It's kind of like a weekend toy or like drive it Friday to work or something.
So it's really late.
I just roll it out of the garage and drive it to work and drive it home.
So it works for me.
And it saves weight and cost, not having a reverse.
100%.
Yeah, there's a variety of options to solve that problem, but all of them require a fair bit of work.
And as you say, there's going to be adding, adding weight to the vehicle.
What are the other complexities in actually performing the engine swap?
Is it any more difficult, I guess, than doing a normal automotive engine swap, other than the transmission that we've just talked about?
Yeah, nothing's really different.
I think what was hard for me was actually mounting the engine because the output of the transmission was offset from the differential.
And it was left and right.
And it was offset up and down.
So I kind of had to mount the engine in a spot where I was going to have drive shaft clearance to go inboard and down.
But then still have the, the angles right, you know, the output angles have to all be parallel with the differential angles.
When you have offsets like that or you're going to have, you know, bad vibrations and driveshaft.
So that was probably the biggest challenge was just holding the thing in place while I made mounts up to it as far as it being the race part.
You know, I had a lease around it and stuff to try to get it as good as I could.
And I mean, there's no vibrations or anything.
So I think I got it right.
Sounds like it.
In terms of actually doing that, are you leveraging any of the technology as ZZP to help you in terms of 3D scanning and CAD?
Or are you doing the old-fashioned way with cardboard-aided design?
Yeah, at the time, I kind of was just doing an old-fashioned.
I mean, there was some things where I'd bring in and throw them on the lathe and, you know, open up the ID of something or put something in the mill to make a little bracket.
But yeah, it was basically all just old-fashioned.
In terms of comparing a motorbike engine to a car engine, what would you consider sort of pros and cons of going down this route?
Cons, the main con, is noise level.
And that's actually something I want to ask you about because I could not wrap my head around why this thing is so loud.
Really?
I have, so now it's turbocharged, but the turbo sits probably three feet off a cylinder head.
And then I have a full exhaust that goes under the car all the way out to a muffler under the rear bumper.
And I don't know if it's the frequency of exhaust passes or something, but it is you're personally loud.
I mean, I drive with earplugs every time.
Yeah, that is bizarre.
I would have thought that there would be no issue keeping the engine pretty quiet, particularly.
I've obviously got a lot more room for an exhaust system of mufflers and a Miata than you do on a motorbike.
Not having had almost any personal experience with bike engines, I don't actually know what I can offer there.
But I mean, ultimately I can't see why it would be any different to a automotive engine.
Obviously you're revving to 13,000, which is a little different, but yeah, I wouldn't have wouldn't have really seen any reason for that.
But let's talk about the rest of getting this up and running, wiring and engine management.
What have you done?
So when I first put it together, like I said, it was naturally aspirated.
So I actually took all the Miata wiring out of the car.
And I put the motorcycle battery and fuse box and the bike ECU and all that in the car.
And you've actually got the motorcycle gauge cluster as well, haven't you?
Yep.
So a big challenge, not a big challenge, but some of that took some time for me was I wanted the Miata ignition key to work and the turn signals and all that.
So that took a good amount of just looking up wiring diagrams and all that.
But yeah, it's all on the bike wiring, little battery, so it keeps away down and that's nice.
That makes a lot of sense when things are stock.
But as you mentioned, now you're turbocharged.
So are you still running the stock ECU?
I mean, there's obviously reflash options in the motorcycle world as well.
How are you dealing with tuning?
So I'm still running the stock bike ECU.
And I have a piggyback spliced into that ECU.
So talk to us a bit more details about how that system works.
So one of the reasons I chose it was because like I said, when I when I had my Miata turbocharged on the BP engine like 10 years ago, I bought a plug and play AM piggyback.
And I didn't wire it in. I didn't tune it.
I didn't really know what it was doing.
So this time around, I thought it'd be kind of cool to use that, but actually, you know, wire it in myself and tune it myself.
But the reason I chose it is because I was kind of looking around the engine at the sensors, what not and how to control the thing.
And I realized it was already running in speed density.
There was no no math sensor.
It was it was a map sensor and an intake air temp sensor.
There was no no two sensor.
So I knew that it was an open loop.
I guess there was no no feedback.
So I thought, well, why don't I just instead add in the complexity of a full stand alone for all these features that I don't really need.
I grabbed a piggyback from used for 300 bucks.
And I did a voltage clamp on the map sensor.
So basically the stock ECU never sees over atmospheric pressure.
And then how it works is it interrupts the injectors and just holds them open longer.
So the stock ECU sends out for this load in this RPM.
I want to see, you know, say three milliseconds of pulse.
And then my piggyback says, well, let's just add 20% of that or, you know, whatever sell I'm in.
So I mean, it works great.
I have my air fuel ratios pretty dialed in.
So are you able with that system to fit a larger set of injectors?
I'm assuming here that the stock injectors would struggle with a turbocharger or they got a bit of headroom in them.
So actually they have a lot of headroom because that engine has eight injectors from factory.
Oh, wow.
Yeah. So there's there's four injectors pre throttle bodies.
They shoot right down into the velocity stacks.
And then there's four injectors post throttle bodies.
Do you happen to know in stock form?
If they essentially are higher RPM, higher load, both sets of injectors are running.
Or do they stage from the primary injectors by the intake valve to the up the sort of further away injectors?
So that's something, that's a good question because I did run into this issue.
I'm only controlling the bottom four injectors.
But like you said, when you get to higher RPM, it favors the top four injectors for feeling.
So I can only modify a pulse width that's already there.
So I do have to add quite a lot of percentage to those lower injectors to get my desired air fuel ratio.
Okay. Yeah, that kind of stacks up with what I'd expect to be.
It was a pretty common way of setting up a naturally aspirated race engine back in the British touring car days.
We actually, we haven't got it up and running yet, but we've tried the same.
I've always wanted to have a player round with injectors mounted outside of the intake trumpets.
And just see what if any gains you actually get, but that's on our K20 race car,
which I imagine that the current rate of progress might see the light of day in about 2032.
But yeah, watch this space.
We'll see how that all works out.
Obviously when you're turbocharging an engine, the fueling is critical, but so is the ignition timing.
How has that been dealt with with this piggyback? Are you modifying the ignition timing and retarding it with boost?
So with the piggyback, you can only retard timing. You can't advance it because you're basically just interrupting the crank signal to the stock ECU and delaying it until it's happening later.
I'm actually not retarding any timing right now because I'm running such low boost pressure.
And I'm running it pretty rich. So yeah, I'm running full, full bike and a ignition timing.
Wow.
And pump fuel, or are you running an ethanol blend on this as well?
No, it's just 93 arc 10 pump gas.
Okay, I'm surprised that you're able to get away with that actually.
In terms of power levels, just going back for a moment to when the engine was still naturally aspirated,
what sort of power were you seeing on it at that point?
I made 160 wheel horsepower naturally aspirated on the dyno.
That's a very strong reason to go with the motorcycle engine. That sort of power.
I can imagine 160 at the wheel was probably 190 plus crankshaft horsepower from a one later.
You're not going to find too many car engines that are going to do that.
With the turbo setup, what are you seeing now?
So I just posted a video on it the other day, but I made 223 wheel horsepower on a GT 2860 turbo.
Okay, where are the limitations lie in terms of the engine reliability and tunnel components?
I'm not sure and I really don't want to find out because those engines are getting kind of pricey.
When I first turboed it, I did have a problem with the clutch and funny enough,
I kind of picked the wrong generation CBR because most leader bikes they have individual coil springs
holding for their pressure plate.
My generation uses a diaphragm spring and no one really makes a stiff or diaphragm spring for the clutch.
I ended up just stacking two of the stock diaphragm springs in there and it holds.
On that basis, is there a student that's still a strong aftermarket for people who are modifying CBR 1000 anyway?
Are there aftermarket clutches available?
There are and this is something I learned.
Do you know what a slipper clutch is on a bike?
I sure do.
Okay, so I didn't know what a slipper clutch was.
They actually may be explained for those who don't.
So basically a slipper clutch on a bike is going to disengage the clutch slightly on diesel.
So you can basically from the way I learned is it's for downshifting because you don't want to have an abrupt downshift because it could upset the bike and you could crash.
So that's something that I have.
The CBR that I use has one of those stock slipper clutch which I don't necessarily know how that works since I have a lot more diesel load on the clutch.
If I'm, you know, maybe slipping it too much with that slipper being in there.
But yeah, as far as aftermarket, if when I looked up aftermarket clutch options for the bike, it was all slipper clutches.
Yeah, I guess in the problem there with a downshift and a car is a few don't rev match with Helen to flipping the throttle.
You can end up essentially locking the rear wheel momentarily while it tries to essentially bring the engine RPM up and a car that can be a problem.
But in a bike where you've only got one tire on the road, that's going to be a massive problem.
So I guess that's that's why that makes sense that they incorporate that.
When terms of the shifting as well with the sequential, I'm guessing that you're not using any flat shift mechanism.
It's just because you're still on the factory ECU.
Yeah, there's some companies that make like a basically string gauge the sensor bolts to like the the shift around the trans and that it'll cut ignition timing to help you clutch shift.
The reason I haven't gone to one of those is because I do use the clutch every time I shift it, because I'm just trying to be as nice as possible to the transmission.
You know, it's already under way more stress than obviously.
So I just want to help it live as long as it can. So I do use the clutch when I shift.
Yeah, that makes sense. It's sort of a, you could almost consider it a bit of a fuse in the system, but yeah, obviously going to put a lot less load on the gears if you are shifting it that way.
Coming back to the power levels and you sort of just mentioned that you don't really want to find out where the limits are.
I mean, a great question there is, so how do you approach that when you don't necessarily know at what power level or torque level you're going to end up finding out that maybe the con rods are not fit for purpose.
Actually, how I go about that is kind of from my, my old me out of days is you want to keep the torque down, put a bigger turbo on it.
Then necessary make, make all your power up top and that's going to help the rods live.
I kind of failed at that, though, because I, I sized my turbo too small, which is shocking for a, for a one liter engine.
But I started with a GT 2560 Garrett rates it for like engines from 1.8 liters to two and a half liters.
And it's like a 45 millimeter compressor and I had a 0.64 AR turbine turbine housing on it.
And I was seeing like 10 PSI back pressure at three pounds of boost, which is not good.
And then I switched to a GT 2860 with a 0.86 turbine housing on it.
And now I'm sitting out like two to one back pressure.
So this is an interesting point there.
I think back pressure is something that most people don't give any consideration to.
But when you actually start measuring that and looking at what's happening, it's a really interesting metric.
Typically, I think you'll find that in most factory turbocharged engines, a pressure ratio of sort of two to one exhaust back pressure being about double intake manifold pressure is pretty normal.
Because it's sort of the, the amount of drive pressure that's being provided to the turbine to help spool it.
So the higher that is essentially the quicker your turbo spools, but it also becomes a choke point for the engine as well.
Did you do any kind of calculations in terms of turbo sizing?
Or was this sort of a garret says this will fit a 1.8 to 2.5 liter engine?
Let's try that and see how we get on.
Yeah, pretty much that.
I just, you know, like I said, I have access to a day now with with a back pressure reading.
So I figured, well, I can, you know, I can always go bigger in the future.
But I just didn't consider the, the high RPM that the engine was operating at, you know, like garret, you know, they, they raise something for a two liter engine and I think, oh, well, you know, I only have a one liter.
So there should be big for my engine, but they're probably not considering that, you know, I'm going to be spin the engine up to 13,000.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
What's the, the move from here? Are you happy with that current turbo sizing or are you going to go, go further?
I'm pretty happy with the, with the turbo sizing now and the power it's making.
So I'll probably just going to keep it at, you know, it's 5 psi of boost and 220 wheel horsepower and just enjoy it.
I'm interested in how this stacks up in comparison to the turbo BP engine that you originally said you had, which I think you mentioned 450 wheel horsepower.
How is the driving experience with, you know, half the power, but I imagine substantially less weight.
Yeah, the driving experience is, is, it's not really apples to apples now because, like you said, the car has gotten so much lighter.
I no longer have any side glass in the car.
So it's to save weight.
So the noise level is increased.
It's definitely not as fast as it used to be, but obviously, you know, that's, that's not what it's all about.
But yeah, like I said, as far as driving experience, I like to just build, build stuff.
So I don't really concern myself too much of like, you know, how it drives.
I just tinker with it.
And then when I get sick of it, I try some else.
And on that basis, when you do get sick of it, what, what's the next step?
The next step for me actually is, is not related to the Miata.
I picked up a Sion FRS or a BRZ, if you will.
So I'm going to do my own, my own turbo setup on that, the F A20.
And finally, I want to do a, a standalone.
So I got myself a, a Haltech Elite.
And I've never fully installed a standalone by myself and tuned, doing the car.
So I'm, I'm really looking forward to that challenge.
I'm interested.
We're a little off topic.
I don't want to come back and finish off on the Miata.
But I'm interested why you went there late on the, the FRS.
Just given the fact it is an engine that uses both port and direct injection.
That becomes quite tricky for a lot of ECUs to control.
Plus you've also got the Canvas communication.
So are you planning to strip out all of the existing electronics and, and run just the standalone?
Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to do away with all the DA stuff and just run it on bigger port and reactors.
And then for the Canvas, the, the Haltech has the BRZ, at least for the first gen,
they have the BRZ Canvas language or speed built in.
So my, my cluster and all that should work.
I was actually, I was actually watching one of your videos the other day because the cam timing, I think,
is going to be a decent challenge for me to learn on how to control these, these four cam shafts.
I think, you know, when you're talking variable valve timing on four cam shafts,
yes, on face value, it seems complex.
But the reality is it's just another couple of parameters to your tuning.
So it sort of becomes a case of fuel ignition and take cam timing, fuel and ignition,
because obviously when you change the airflow into the engine with the cam timing,
that may need to be addressed and then sort of iterate that and then go through the exhaust cam as well.
So I mean, it just, it adds a layer of complexity and is just simply going to mean
that you're going to be spending more time on the tuning side of it.
But why the elite as opposed to one of the plug and play options,
I think at this point in time, we've got Mtron Motek and Link are now offering plug and play,
they might be more as well.
And actually considering everything you do seems to involve fact use.
I mean, reflashing is also a very viable option on that platform.
It is. Yeah. This is one of the things where I'm just trying to challenge myself.
You know, like you were saying earlier, the stock ECU stuff nowadays is getting pretty good.
A lot of people are using it.
So I think it'd be kind of cool to be able to control a semi complex engine by myself with a standalone.
Yeah, I think that's pretty valid.
Let's just head back to what's probably related to this project as well.
But to the Miata, you've got a dyno at work as we've already discussed.
It sounds like you're handling the tuning on the Miata.
Yeah, on the Miata.
But not on any of the ZZP stuff.
Sure.
So how did you develop both skills and tuning is very different to fabrication?
That was kind of from the original Miata build.
I bought a plug and play standalone setup.
And it got the car running and the air fuel ratios were close.
But I mean, that was how did I learn that?
I guess was just from forum posts and YouTube.
You know, this is where you are here for air fuel ratios to be for this fuel.
And you know, this is where you want your ignition timing to be.
And just kind of tinker in with it from there.
I think when it comes to getting started with tuning that the fueling side is probably easier for people to get the head around than the ignition timing.
And particularly when you start adding a turbo into the mix, the timing can be pretty critical.
If you go too far, you're going to end up with knock and it's not going to end too well.
How did you approach that?
You mentioned forum posts, but is that all there is to it?
Basically, look at what other people are running for a similar combination?
Well, at the time, I didn't have access to a dyno.
The knock sensing on that ECU I had wasn't that great.
So basically my strategy was just keep the timing low and make power with more boost.
Yeah, that's a valid way of doing it.
Were you using any form of audio knock detection to sort of help you find where the limits were?
Or was it just be conservative?
Be conservative, yeah.
So I didn't really tune the ignition timing in the real way, but I got by, I guess.
Now with access to a dyno, have you been able to sort of spend a bit more time developing your tuning skillset?
Yeah, a little bit.
I think when I get into this in this BRZ build, I think it's going to be elevated by setting up knock control and listening for knock
and advancing the timing and doing all that kind of stuff.
Sure.
With the BRZ build, let's, well, if I race, I guess they're all the same thing, let's be honest.
It's a car that's pretty near and dear to my heart.
So I'm interested in learning a little bit more about what your plans are with it.
In terms of developing your own turbo kit for it, what's your approach?
Where are you going to mount the turbo?
What turbo are you planning to use?
So I got a GT2871, which is like a 53 millimeter compressor.
And I'm going to mount it up front, like behind the radiator, but off to the right a little bit of the throttle body.
And just, you know, air to air, simple stuff.
But there's not really a lot of DIY-ers necessarily that mess with these cars.
Like it's a lot of just like big companies that make kits and whatnot.
So I think it'd be cool to just have my own setup.
With our turbo charged F820, we actually started that with an Australian built kit, which was from AVO, I think, from memory.
And we actually found that was really problematic.
I think it was probably fine for street use.
But the manifold that they made was all fully welded.
So there was no sort of slip joints.
And obviously on our horizontal opposed engine, you've got quite a long run from one side to the other.
That was a low mount kind of like you're saying there.
Set the turbo behind the radiator, which I quite liked, because I kept all the weight sort of quite low.
And also the manifold was quite short.
What sort of considerations do you have around how to deal with manifold expansion and contraction as it heats up and cools down?
Exactly.
What you said with having the flex in there, when you have something that's that's that long of a runner when the heavy turbo is mounted that far away from the cylinder heads.
I like to mount the turbo to either the chassis or the engine itself and then run the exhaust piping to the turbo with some sort of flex in between.
So basically the idea is that the engine and the turbo are one.
And then it's going to let the exhaust to kind of move and grow and shrink and whatnot between the two to help reduce fatigue on the manifold.
I think what we ended up doing, you're absolutely right, you need something that's going to allow that expansion and contraction without sort of transferring it into the manifold itself or the turbocharger.
We ended up cutting that manifold that we had and added, we just bought some double slip joints from Bern Stainless and Welded Dozen, which actually worked quite well.
In terms of fabricated turbo manifolds have kind of a bad reputation for cracking.
And obviously what we've just talked about is going to be one of the driving factors in doing that, not supporting the turbocharger and having no form of expansion or flex in the manifold.
Material choice, what's your go-to?
For something like that, I'm probably going to do schedule bends.
So schedule 10 thick steam pipe?
Yeah, stainless for at least like the horizontal runs that are going to be carrying a lot of it maybe for the vertical, maybe I can go to some thin wall stuff.
But yeah, for something with the turbo's mounted pretty far away, if it's supported properly and you know the engine's not going to move that much, you can probably get away with thin wall stainless.
In terms of supporting the turbo, you've talked about mounting the turbo to the engine or the chassis.
I'd imagine the engine makes more sense given if you don't have solid engine mounts, the chassis to engines going to move around.
Is that a solid mount that you use or are you using sort of rod ends to support the turbocharger mass, but still actually allow some movement in it?
So like on the Miata, I have the turbo is mounted directly to the chassis, solid right to the framers.
But like you said, that engine is mounted solid, so I know there's really no movement between the two.
But then something like the BRZ, where the engine's going to be on factory mounts, then I'm probably going to try to make some sort of bracket that bolts to the front of the engine and then carries away to the turbo.
But it will be solid and then I'll let the exhaust kind of move between the two.
Any sort of considerations on modifying the engine to handle more power, are you going to just run it stock?
I'm going to run it stock for now.
This car is supposed to be my true daily driver.
Like I always buy these cars and I daily drive them and then they get out of hand and then I stop driving them.
So the aim for this build is to...
It's a pretty common thing, mate.
So the aim for this car is to actually keep it streetable, rain or shine.
So yeah, maybe 300 wheel horsepower.
And then maybe later I'm sure I'll get the edge and probably throw some rods in it or something and try to make 400.
Yeah.
We actually found that the rods are the weak point.
But the only problem we actually had with the rods was I bent a rod just before a live webinar,
which was on launch control.
And I was testing the car on our dyno just prior to going live for this webinar.
And was using obviously a slightly overly aggressive launch control strategy with a little bit too much ignition retard.
And it was sort of popping and banging on the launch limit as you'd expect.
And they came back to idle and I could hear this sort of like rattle, which obviously is not what you even want to hear from an engine.
Now long story short, we bent one of these rods.
But interestingly, we'd run up to just under 400 wheel horsepower on our mainline dyno with the stock rods.
And absolutely zero issue.
It was only the launch control that actually damaged them.
But I think it's pretty cheap insurance.
It's fitting a set of rods.
And we actually found that the factory pistons were incredibly strong as long as you tune them properly.
It was running on E85 fuel and we literally never had a problem with the engine after we replaced the rods.
So I think they are actually a pretty good thing if you keep the power to a reasonable level.
Keeping them cool on the other hand is incredibly problematic.
But we were driving that car on a racetrack.
So probably again, something that's not going to be an issue for a stretch of income.
Now is that something when you made that 400 horsepower close to it?
Was that something where it was a super responsive turbo setup?
Was it made kind of higher in the RPM range?
No, it was actually, I still consider it a perfect combination.
It was a Borgwonna EFR turbocharger.
And it was full boost, which was only 12 or 13 psi by 3200 RPM.
And literally you could give it to someone and not tell them that it was turbocharged.
And it just felt like a bigger capacity, naturally aspirated engine.
There was zero lag, super responsive.
What we did do just for reliability when it had the stock rods was limited the boost through the sort of peak torque area.
And then ramped the boost up once we're higher in the RPM with the aftermarket rods.
Obviously that wasn't a consideration.
The only other thing I would say about them is fourth gear in those gearboxes is a massive weak point.
Once we're sort of up out that 385 wheel horsepower mark,
we could break fourth gear just about every time we went to the track.
The weren't, and I actually think still aren't a lot of off-the-shelf solutions for that platform in terms of transmission.
It's sort of going to a big dollar sequential or something which we didn't want to do.
So we actually just took all of the boost out of fourth gear.
So it had run 12 to 13 psi in first, second, third, and then fifth and sixth.
And then in fourth gear, I think we pulled it back to waistgate, which was maybe like seven psi.
That actually worked perfectly, but it was the weirdest thing to drive.
You'd sort of get to the shift light in third gear, pull fourth.
The thing would feel absolutely flat.
So you'd be in fourth gear for a second and then short shifted into fifth and it'd take off again.
But maybe not the best solution, but it was a cheaper solution.
It kept that gearbox pretty reliable.
Interesting. I remember that.
All right, I think we'll move towards wrapping this combo up.
And we've got the same three questions that we ask all of our guests.
So the first of those is what's next in the future for you.
Obviously, FRS development, but yeah, what else?
Yeah, like I said, FRS development.
I'll be doing some videos on that.
My own turbo set up and watch me learn how to tune with a standalone.
And then we've got some courses for that.
Exactly. Yeah.
Hopefully we get that world record and the ATSV.
I can do some videos on that.
And then yeah, as far as the Miata, I probably just the videos on that are kind of just slow down,
because I'm not really changing much, but I'm just going to continue to drive it
and enjoy it at this power level.
Actually, haven't really touched on your YouTube channel.
We'll shout that out shortly.
When you're running a YouTube channel like this,
how much consideration do you put into the projects for yourself
and what you want to do versus trying to do something that's also going to resonate with viewers
or is it just a case of build what you want and if people like it, they'll come.
That's an easy question because I put 100% of the thought into building what I want.
And, you know, a funny thing is even sitting here talking to you,
it's like, when I built the Miata, I didn't shoot a single video on it.
The first video of it was its first test drive.
You know, I built it for myself and then I posted a video
and people wanted to see more of it and I started making more videos.
But, yeah, I build whatever I want.
I mean, it's not like a...
Obviously, it's not a main source of income or anything for me,
so it's just fun to shoot little videos.
And, you know, I think in 10 years or so,
it'll be fun to look back on and I can show my son.
You know, he can watch videos of me building cars.
You know, so that's kind of why I do the videos.
Okay, fair reason.
Next question, Reid, is there any advice you'd give to a younger vision of yourself
or maybe some of our listeners to help reach where you are today in your career faster?
Or maybe avoid some folks you've come across along the way?
So, actually, I had this question beforehand, so I got a couple notes on this.
But, I would say the first piece of advice I have for maybe someone else
is that you have to be disciplined.
I hear a lot of people saying, you know, I'm going to build this
or I'm going to do this swap.
But, they don't actually have the discipline to finish something like that.
And, I don't think a lot of people understand the time commitment
that goes into building a car, not not from scratch, obviously,
because, you know, Mazda built the car and Honda built the engine.
But, you know, I was on the garage every Saturday
or most Sundays for a year straight.
And, I don't think people have the...
You see a lot of unfinished builds for sale.
I have seen.
I think it's because people, you know, they get to the part that's hard or boring
and they throw in the towel.
So, my advice on that is, if you're going to aim for something big,
just know that you've got to stick with it.
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
It comes down to not understanding just how big a project like that is going to be.
And, it is really easy.
I mean, I'm in exactly the same position with my FJ40 Land Cruiser project.
I mean, that's four years deep.
It's actually getting some really good progress right now.
But, you sort of get to a point where you get sick of looking at the thing.
And, it's also hard when you know that the finish line is just so far down the road.
It's almost better, I think, if you can just bring it back to many tasks
and then take off a task and just have that sense of satisfaction.
Like, yep, done.
That job is now complete.
Now, let's move on to the next one, rather than trying to look at the project in its entirety.
The other thing I would probably say is for those who want to start tinkering
and building a project car or something like that, start with smaller projects.
Like, an engine swap is a big job.
So, maybe that's not the first thing you should be doing.
Some smaller tasks might be a better way of kind of wetting your appetite
and figuring out where your skills lie and would you actually enjoy the process while you're going
so that you don't end up with another unfinished project on Facebook Marketplace.
Exactly.
And then, another piece of advice I have is actually a good quote from the guy who built that,
that CBR-1,600.
He said, the best way to engineer something is to not engineer it at all.
Just build it and see what happens.
So, I kind of started taking that approach because when I was younger,
I would kind of overbuild everything.
And I would buy the best parts and the most expensive stuff
because I was so afraid of something breaking or a part failing.
But, you know, now, or I guess my advice to my younger self would be to just send it.
Just build something if it breaks, then fix it.
You know, learn to make it stronger.
Or if you buy a cheap part and it fails, maybe you can look at it
and come up with something better that's going to make it last.
So, I kind of like that quote.
Yeah, I think that's actually really good advice.
Too many people probably waste money on parts that they actually don't need for the power levels,
for example, that they're trying to achieve engine internal components,
or a classic example of that.
It's often quite amazing what you can get away with on a stock piston and connecting rod
provided that your tuning is on point.
Now, obviously, that doesn't go for every engine.
There's definitely engines out there that are known to have, you know,
such a glass con rods and you want to be careful with that.
The other aspect there, I guess, is when it's something that's going to be safety critical,
I'd probably like to over-engineer that a little bit more than something that,
hey, if it breaks, it's a shame, but it's not going to put you into a wall, for example.
Yeah, on the whole point of like, you know, people over building their car
is my last piece of advice is, you know, the internet in forums and Facebook groups
it's a great place to learn, but a lot of that stuff I've found is just one guy
said something in 2010 that kind of sounded like an expert,
and now that information is just paraded, and it might not be true.
So a good example that is back in the days on the Miata Turbo.net.
It was like common wisdom.
It was on every post.
If you're going to make over 250 horsepower, you need rods.
If you're going to make over 300, you need for its pistons.
And that was just like, that's what you had to have.
Well, I ended up making 450 on stock pistons.
I had rods in it, but you know, I just opened up the ring gap
and tuned it conservatively.
And it's just funny how some of that stuff gets paraded over the years and people just take it.
Yeah, I think that is a really valid point,
just because something is on the internet doesn't make it gospel.
But particularly with the forums, I guess we've moved on a little bit from forums these days,
but the build recipes that were there and people would follow them,
but that doesn't necessarily mean that that's the only way to achieve it.
And again, just results in people needlessly spending money on parts
that at their power level, they absolutely don't need.
All right, last question for today.
Read if people want to follow you and see what you're up to, how they're best to do.
So that's just my YouTube channel at Read Mate Car on YouTube.
Simple name. I'm a simple guy.
And that's how I came up with the name is I'm read and I meet cars.
So yeah.
Yeah.
That was exactly what it says on the label.
Yeah.
As usual, we'll put a link to your YouTube channel in the show notes
to make it nice and easy for people to find if they can't work Google.
Look, been great to chat and find out a little bit more about your MX-5
and when Miata, I should say, and what goes into converting motorcycle engine
to work in a car.
So thanks for your time, Read.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
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