General Motors Just Got CAUGHT | HUGE SETTLEMENT | Episode 1068

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It's noon here in Ventner City, New Jersey and our nation's capital, Washington, D.C.,

and this is Car Edge Live from Monday, May 11th with your host, me, Ray here in my living room

in Ventner and Zach hanging out with his life ring in Washington, D.C., and I'm pretty sure the

Wizards are going to use that life ring to bring in the number one pick in the NBA draft,

whether he wants to be in D.C. or not. How are you today, handsome?

All right, folks. Thanks for tuning in on this Monday, May 11th. We appreciate it as always.

I'm doing great this morning, Dad, excited to spend some time with you this afternoon.

First things first, however, today's show is brought to you by CarEdge.com. For those of you

that are unfamiliar, me, my dad and our incredible team for the past six years have been providing

car buying services, car research tools, all sorts of things, including even,

I've got to give it some love here, dealer reviews. If you haven't used dealer reviews,

hover over dealer reviews, either go to the map, search dealers, or in this case, Dad,

I'm going to go to the ratings overview. That gives you a second to put your phone on mute.

Over 12,000 car dealers have been scored by CarEdge. These scores are super interesting.

I'm going to scroll down, unfortunately, to some dealers who have gotten some bad scores.

These are dealers, folks, that you should have some concern about before you go into the dealership.

We tell you exactly why. In this case, this particular dealership, 81% of the time that

CarEdge has contacted them, they've added dealer add-ons of almost $5,000. When we've contacted

them, their out-the-door price quote is 14% higher than what they listed online. Use these dealer

scores and dealer reviews to make an informed decision before you buy your next car, get

dealer reviews, click on the overview, and have some fun. Now, Dad, the big story this morning

is we have a settlement from General Motors. They've agreed to pay almost $13 million in the

state of California after selling driver data. You and I have been talking about this story for

years. Can you help us understand what happened here on this settlement and more broadly? What's

going on with all this data? It's a bummer that Delete Me is no longer sponsoring the show, man.

Today would have been the show for them. What's going on with all this data that these companies

are collecting about? All the software in all these cars, one-star things of that nature,

they gather up data, data, however you want to say it, about us, about how we drive the car,

about where we drive the car, what we might listen to, all kinds of interesting tidbits of

information that General Motors was then, I don't know, selling to data brokers. Oh my god,

so they could share that information and collect, I believe they collected $20 million

from the data brokers for this information. A lot of it was used with insurance companies

and things of that nature to determine your automobile insurance rates based on the information

that was shared. It is, how do you say a major invasion of your privacy that you agreed to

when you bought the damn car because, well, you didn't read any of the stuff that they asked you

to read, they just told you, sign here. And like 99.9% of all Americans, you did, I did, we all do.

And then we find out afterwards, oh, poopies. And General Motors has gotten a lot of heat for

this. It's obviously not the settlement has happened, but they've been in the news a lot

recently. You can see here GM illegally sold data on hundreds of thousands of drivers, including

names, locations, and driving behavior to data brokers from 2020 to 2024 in violation of state

law, the California Department of Justice said in a news release, GM did not notify customers

that their delayed data, excuse me, collected through OnStar was being sold and it retained

and sold driver data quote, long after it was used by OnStar, the state said, so debt.

We've heard about insurance companies doing this. We have now obviously got an automaker through

OnStar doing this. And this was from 2020 to 2024. So there are so many angles to this one is,

is this fair? Hundreds of thousands of drivers over four years to your point, they made 20 million

bucks. They're only having to pay 12.75 million in a settlement. So they make money doing it.

Another aspect of this that we need to think about is all of these auto manufacturers now,

it's almost like a mandate at the dealership that you, when you buy a new car, have to download

their app. Like the salespeople and the dealership gets additional commission and profit from the

manufacturer a bonus for the number of penetrations they have on app download. Like this is prolific.

This is happening not only with General Motors, with all automakers.

And sadly, you know, the vast majority of people download the stuff. But the reality is, is based

on this information that they're collecting. And it's not just General Motors. It's every one of

these damn manufacturers that are collecting this information. So think about this for a second.

They're collecting our information. They're selling it for a lot of money. Perhaps, perhaps

they should be sending us a monthly stipend, you know, to help cover the cost of our car

payment, our insurance, our maintenance, our fuel, since, well, they're still making money off of us

long after we bought their damn car. You know, so, so perhaps, you know, when we enter into an agreement

to buy one of these things. And the monthly payments $973 for 84 months. But maybe we're

going to get 73 bucks back every month from General Motors or whoever it is, you know,

to help compensate for the data they're collecting on us that they're going to sell. And if I may,

this GM nonsense, this was the second time they were fined by the FTC, if I'm not mistaken,

a year or so ago. So yeah, this is just a California specific settlement. The FTC took

action against General Motors. I think it was actually the beginning of this year. But you

can see here, the FTC banned General Motors and OnStar from sharing geolocation and driving

behavior data with consumer reporting agencies for five years. The automaker must obtain a

affirmative consent and give drivers greater control of how their vehicle data is collected

and used for the next 20 years. The case underscores growing regulatory scrutiny of data practices

tied to connected and software driven vehicles, which takes us exactly, Dad, into the next story

that we have queued up for today, written by Zarin, who I'm a huge fan of what Zarin does

over on Xland. Dad, we saw this, what was it? Yeah, you can see here, November 24th, 2025.

Zarin posted over on X this screen that he saw in his Jeep Grand Cherokee, his brand new Jeep Grand

Cherokee. And you can see here, it is a marketing notification showing up in his infotainment system

just announced. $1,500 loyalty retail bonus cash, I own a Chrysler Dodge. Well, obviously,

you do, you're sitting in one. Yet $1,500 in additional bonus cash, blah, blah, blah, blah.

This is some of the insanity that's going on in cars now.

Oh, it is. And when I saw this and I was reading ARC and I was thinking,

so what's the prevent StoLanthus or Ford or Chevy or whoever from selling ads?

Literally selling ads that will pop up in your infotainment system.

You know, what is the prevent them from saying, hey, Spotify, you want to get more subscribers?

How about, you know, we put together a marketing plan and it pops up in the infotainment system

when the people turn on their car that if they were to sign up over the next three days, they

can save X, you know, whatever it is, pick a number. There's no reason that, you know,

suddenly there couldn't be an ad for Verizon that says, hey, we know you use a Verizon phone.

Have you thought about getting a new iPhone? How about we'll make it easier for you? Hell,

we can even send the mapping to your car so it can take you to the closest Verizon store.

I mean, what would be the end point for all this? It is, you spend the average new car today

sells for just under $50,000. So you spend just under $50,000 for the car.

The average finance term is 72 months. And so you pay back $50,000, you pay back, I don't know,

an extra $15,000 in interest. They collect your data, they sell it after you've entered into

this agreement. And then they can bombard you with marketing so they can make even more.

Why aren't they paying us to try these mobile platforms that are nothing but advertising for

them? I mean, it's really to the point where they should give us the damn car. It's like, you know,

when you sign up for Amazon, do you want Amazon Prime? Do you want it ad-free? Or we'll give it

to you with ads and it's cheaper for you. Why don't they give us the damn cars and just bombard us

with commercial after-comer? You want to listen to music? Hell no, you're going to listen to this ad.

It is interesting that here's from HVAC. Soldier, I got an ad of my Jeep for Wi-Fi offering remote

start as part of the service. I had remote start installed through another dealer. So

this is already happening and is part of a broader push to keep cars connected and to obviously both

capture data, sell data, and then obviously sell other services as well. And just to make sure,

I didn't do a great job frame this. I'm going to read this briefly. You can see here on the morning

of November 24th, 2025, automotive journalist, Zaryn Dube entered, excuse me, opened the door

of his Jeep Grand Cherokee, settled into the driver seat and pressed the start button. The

dashboard came up, the infotainment screen ran its boot animation, blinked to the home view,

and then loaded an advertisement on top of the home view. Not a service reminder,

not a recall notice, a promotional offer, $1,500 in loyalty retail bonus cash for the purchase

of a new Jeep. Time to appear at startup, configured to linger for 15 seconds and program to return

at the next ignition cycle if you fail to dismiss it. That's what we're talking about here. And

it's fascinating to read this article, this article, for what it's worth was posted on,

what's it called? Nobody asked for this, which is super interesting. You know,

talks through the history of cars. And it's really cool. The Buick Riviera,

first production car with a touchscreen. Yes. You can see it right there. This is all the way back

in 19, what was it? 1986. Yeah. To where we are now with the Mercedes-Benz hyperscreen,

three displays, 56 inches, one piece of gorilla glass. These have just become, and we know,

we talked about last week with Frank Lutz, too, when we were talking about maintenance costs,

air costs, they're computers. They're big, big, big computers. And so the settlement today for

General Motors out of the state of California is definitely interesting. And it's $12.5 million

going back in the right direction. It's probably what, 149th of what should be happening nationwide.

And these other automakers are doing it as well. And then obviously, the other example here is,

they're not tracking your data, but they're marketing to you once you purchase the vehicle.

We know that Stalantis was hoping that at some point, software subscriptions and stuff were

going to be, what was it, $28 to $30 billion a year in revenue. Well, if you can't get the

subscriptions, perhaps another way to get that revenue is to sell ad space. I mean, what is

to prevent them from doing that? I don't know that there really is anything to prevent them

from doing that. And, excuse me, this stuff can be hacked all the time. It's, you know,

I don't know. The whole thing's scary because they have so much information about us, where we

drive, how we drive, what our driving habits are, what we listen to, who we talk to. Okay,

because your cell service, they can do geolocations through that. All that information is available

to governments, to prosecutors, to whoever it is. If you don't realize that, and the truth of the

matter is, you don't even need the card, because your phone's doing it, let's phone's sitting on

the seat. But if you don't realize that Big Brother is not only listening and watching and knowing

everything there is to know about us, you know, I'm going to have to start doing some crazy stuff

just to throw them off a little bit. Do you remember, Dad, I think it was maybe a year or two years ago,

I think it was Hyundai, had come out with some designs for some old school looking cards. You

remember this? Yes. I'm going to try and find them. I'll search for that in a second. I think a

market opportunity is going to come up here. We've seen it in the smartphone market, for example,

there are dumb phones now, and some people walk around with dumb phones because they don't want

apps and be connected all the time. I wonder if the same thing will happen with cars. We see,

and we talked to Frank again last week, it used to be so much cheaper to repair cars. It'd be so

much easier to repair cars. The right to repair as well, do the work yourself. It's impossible

nowadays with all the computers and components and things like that. I'm curious, you know,

if there's an automaker out there, and again, Hyundai, I'm going to find the photos here in a

second, they showed what it could look like for a car to be an old school looking vehicle,

but I still think it had all the inside parts of a new school vehicle. But it really does create,

at least for me, a sense of maybe opportunity for some of these automakers to do things

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Part of it is because there is so much that is mandated by government, whether it be the

federal government hearing in the United States or European governments that require

safety features. I mean, every time there's an improvement, the backup camera, for instance,

well, that was an option at one time. Now, it's got to be standard on every car.

There's a huge difference. difference between government-mandated

safety equipment and a 56-inch 3-computer screen. They're not apples to apples, in my opinion.

I'm very pro blind, mandated blind spot monitoring. I'm huge. I don't know anyone who

wouldn't be pro that. My point was going to be with that type of stuff that requires more computers

in the car. It increases the expense of the car, so it becomes harder to be able to produce

a older style car that doesn't have as much stuff in it because you're mandated to have

all this safety. I can apologize for coughing today, ladies and gentlemen.

It's a terrible curse, but I'll learn to live with it.

You could have a dumb car that still has all of the safety capabilities. The dumb car, and I

like God, that looks like a Chrysler Imperial. The thing that makes this sad to me is that,

like, why do I still need a giant screen? Anyway, for me, I want to make the point. I definitely

Why can't we have buttons? Why can't we have...

Can you see? Was it Mercedes-Benz, I think, or BMW? One of the German luxury automakers

is going back to buttons. They said they missed the mark.

Well, and because if everybody has the buttons pretty much in the same place,

you don't have to look at it. You know where they are, and you know what you're...

But when you have screens, you have to look at the screen, and they've proven through studies

that you can't use a screen without taking your eyes off the road to locate something in the screen.

So it's certainly not nearly as safe as when we just had buttons and touch points on cars that

you knew where everything was, and it was easy to do. Mercedes is going back to buttons, Dad.

I just pulled this up here on the screen so everyone can see it.

Lesson in their hearts, because sometimes improvements aren't really improvements.

The future isn't really as wonderful as we'd paint that picture to be.

I don't know. Can you even buy a car today with rollier own windows?

I doubt it. I doubt the Nissan Versa has that, but maybe. Maybe the Mitsubishi Mirage,

like the last one that you can still get, maybe it has it. I doubt it.

I remember rollier own windows, and I remember you had a little window vent,

and just be able to open that little window to get some... I mean, we have improved cars to

the point where they might be safer than they were overall, but they're more annoying than

they've ever been. I mean, I'm old. You've seen me struggle with some of the technologies in my car.

How do you find half the stuff? It's not like you can drive down the road and open up the owner's

manual and try and figure it out that way. The owner's manual is in the infotainment.

It could be. Yeah, I mean, the whole thing. So it is... Some aspects of improvement aren't

really improvements. Some things that are designed to make it easier for us

barely miss the mark, and we see that in cars all the time. I mean, how could you be in that

Mercedes-Benz with a 56-inch screen? I mean, why do you need all that?

Dad, actually, here's space. Remind me, we have seen an automaker come out and actually go back

to the basic slate. Yes. Slate's actually a perfect example. This is capitalism 101.

Where there's market opportunities, you'll see innovation. And I think we're seeing, for example,

again, where we started today, with General Motors got caught. They got caught a while ago,

back in 2024. FTC settlement earlier this year, State of California settlement just happened.

I guess it was on Friday of last week. It got reported on over the weekend. At the same time,

you've got articles talking about and showing ads appearing in new cars, new Stalantis cars,

new Jeep cars. That's concerning. And so you pull it all together. Yeah, it's an opportunity.

It's an opportunity for automakers to do things differently, to go back to the basics. And at

the end of the day, it's whoever ends up buying the product. That's what the manufacturers are

going to end up leaning into is wherever they can actually sell more vehicles, sell more...

I am firmly convinced that with all the information they're gathering on us,

that the manufacturer at least should reimburse us, pick a number, X amount of dollars per month

for utilizing their vehicle that allows them to track everything it is that we do,

and then sell all that information to others. To me, it's like it only seems fair and maybe...

Taking a step further, maybe my smart TV, because my understanding is smart TVs

are gathering up information and sending it back to sources unknown that data gets sold.

So maybe my Sony TV, they should be cutting me a check. Maybe they should be paying for a Netflix

for me. Blow your mind. There's a company doing this. They're called Demo. Yeah, they've literally,

what's it say here? Demo is building the infrastructure for the session-based economy

where vehicles, drivers, and services connect on-demand, build apps, and unlock value across

every trip rental and interaction. This whole platform, as far as I'm aware,

is the idea that you can connect to vehicles and then control your data through them.

Privacy by design. Anyway, yeah, there are some people out there, dad, trying to work on this.

And I know... I haven't talked to the Demo guys probably in like four or five years,

but there are people out there that are working on how you can protect your own data and own your

own data, even the data from the car. And at this point, we don't. You know, somewhere along the

line, they will provide documentation that says we signed our rights away. I mean, I don't remember

doing it. Well, that's why I don't remember it being explained in that manner. That's why we're

reporting on what happens here with General Motors because it does set an interesting precedent and

I would push back on you. I think we're going to see more and more of this. If other automakers are

doing it, if other insurance companies are doing it, if other data collection and data broker

companies are doing this, we're going to continue to see pushback on this. FTC and State of California,

both getting settlements here. I think that's good news. Well, and we know insurance companies do it

in the sense where they offer these safe driver things that you connect to your car. So they can

monitor exactly how you drive so they know how to write your policy and what your premium should be.

You know, they're asking you to find us in. For sure. Yeah. And in a lot of cases, it's mutually

beneficial. Someone gives their data and they get a better rate. Like, there are practical

applications of this. It's when, and this was in the case of General Motors, it's when they're

doing it and they're not informing folks or they're doing it in a state, for example, in California,

where it's against the law. That's where you're going to get yourself in trouble. Let's come here

from Baron. Yes. Thank you, Baron. Basic, safe, manual, funds, no screen, $15,000 for a three-year

warranty. If you aren't paying for the product, you are the product. Yes. I like that. And in today's

economy, where people are struggling to be able to afford a car, if somebody would build basic

transportation, reliable, not crap. I'm not asking for you go to come back to the United States,

but basic quality transportation for $15,000, that would save a lot of problems. That would open up

the car market to a lot of people that find themselves on the outside today. And that would

allow more people to participate without getting in way over their heads. So, yes, somebody should

do that. Absolutely. Again, we do see some companies like Slate, for example, trying to do that. It's

where the innovation will come from. Now, let's come here, Rich, keeping us on our toes. Thank you,

Rich. I found another vehicle that doesn't require lard and a crowbar to get right in.

1938. What the heck? The Delahey. The Delahey Pantheon. Did we see one of those when we were at

the Ford Museum? I think so. I almost want to say we did. I'm not 100% certain. Whoa, this thing's

sick. One second. One second. Boop. This thing looks cool, man. Oh, man. Get me in one of them.

Oh, yeah. I could be you. Yeah. Yeah. Man, you talk about a coupe with a long, long hood.

Look at that. Very good. That's gracious. Yeah. That could be me. You know what? Well,

I think will always, that could be me, is that Audi RS6 Avant.

Yeah, one time you got to drive that and that was crazy, but you know what? They are expensive.

Yeah, but that, if I ever had stupid money, and it's getting a little late in my life to have

stupid money, but if I ever did that, that Audi RS6 Avant, that could be me. That was,

not to ever endorse a car, but that was the most enjoyable vehicle I've ever driven.

Wow. That's high praise, Dan. I'm driven a few thousand in my day. I've appraised

thousands in my day, but that is the most enjoyable vehicle I've ever driven.

You're turning 75 on May 25th, right? Two weeks from today, buddy.

Yeah, May 25th. Okay. Yeah, I don't think we're going to be rich enough to afford an Audi RS6

Avant for your 75th, but maybe for your 76th. You know what would be good? A matchbox version of it.

I'm making that happen. It is interesting. The other story I wanted to bring up today,

we don't have to spend a ton of time on it, but there's this op-ed piece written in automotive

news, a real affordability crisis is the 84 month car loan, and it's just fascinating hearing you

talk about how expensive these vehicles have gone, in part because they're trying to build all these

tech into it, in part because they think they can make more money by putting the tech into it,

which again, it's a level set here. State of California, General Motors made $20 million

selling data to data brokers. They paid a $13 million fine. Last time I did the math there,

they made $7 million, so it still works. It still works. We are making it more difficult

for people to afford to purchase vehicles, in part because they are adding all of these

capabilities, but I want to be very clear here. Me and my dad might not see eye to eye on this.

I think safety-related regulations are net positive for humanity, for the auto industry,

for everyone involved. The fact that there are seatbelts, good, airbags, good.

Nobody's disputing that. I am absolutely not disputing that, but I will suggest to you

that there are certain safety precautions that are now either mandated or highly recommended

by governments. Yeah, there's some benefit to them, but I like backup cameras. I'll be 75.

I use my backup camera. I do, but I could still do that. That didn't cost anything. I know that

people are going to say, well, it saves an X amount of people from getting a hit when people are

backing it. I get that. I suppose I should be ecstatic to pay more for something because it

saved one person, perhaps, but perhaps not. I'm not trying to be mean about it, but why does

everybody's cost have to go up? Is the cost increased worth the benefit or the alleged

benefit to the family that might have lost somebody? Definitely. I get it, but there's

just so many. You said before the lane keep assist or whatever, blinds. How the hell have I driven

for 75 years or as many years as I've been driving 59 years without that? How did we do it?

So is it a benefit? Yes, there's a benefit to it. Is the benefit equal to the cost of it?

I'm not 100% certain. So that's my point. I've heard loud and clear. This is the beauty of this

show. You're 75. I'm 30. We think a little bit differently about the world. You're 74. I show

an age. You're 75 in two weeks. Yeah, but 74. You got to get to 75. Anyway, folks, we're back with

more Car Edge Live tomorrow. I should be able to do the show. I will actually be, so for those of

you that don't know, I will be, let me pull it up, I will be keynoting an event tomorrow, the

auto industry AI summit. I am actually the keynote. Oh, look at you. Yeah, that's an old photo of me.

So hopefully I look a little bit older when I show up. They were not too much older.

Yeah. You're going to be wearing the faux turtleneck tomorrow?

No, I have a different outfit picked out for tomorrow. This is at 10 a.m. that I'm doing this.

10 a.m. to 11 a.m. So it should be done. Should be able to come on and hop on and do the show.

I will be doing the show from Maryland Light Casino. Okay. So anyway, I cannot wait for that

video. We'll share it probably once it does come out because this is how I talked to the auto

industry and I'm really excited for our community to see that. It's all about fairness, efficiency,

transparency, trying to make it easier by car. So really excited to share that. So anyway,

that's tomorrow. If there isn't a show, that's why, but dad, I plan on it. I should be here

with you at noon Eastern. Okay. I'm looking forward to it. Just don't do it set up at a

blackjack table because that could get expensive. Yeah. No, no, no. No gambling for me. All right,

folks, we're back tomorrow. Dad, enjoy the afternoon and I love you. Love you too, handsome.

Everybody have a great day. We'll see you hopefully tomorrow.

If you liked the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe. It really does help

the show to grow. Thank you for listening.

General Motors Just Got CAUGHT | HUGE SETTLEMENT | Episode 1068

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