Is Tesla Finished? | The Car Podcast #73

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Welcome to episode 73 of the CarPodcast.

Chris Harrison is a friend, so housekeeping to start with.

I'm about to have a tooth pulled out, so I'm slightly drugged up.

So if I look off my tits, it's the codeine.

It's really taken hold.

And you know when you want something out of your body?

I can't wait. It's coming. It's going.

I've rejected it.

But the big news is that Neil Clifford's in New York.

And Chris Cooper has decided he's going to take advantage of this empty nesting

and has moved into Neil Clifford's office.

He's sitting in the seat, in the throne.

He's got access to the caps, the headgear, yes and no buttons,

which helps ensure he'll abuse.

He's already sent me a note.

Chris Cooper, that's what he's saying.

Episode 73.

73 is 69 plus four.

FNAF, FNAF.

It's impossible to underestimate you, isn't it?

Yes.

So I will grow out of that joke at some point.

The first point on the agenda.

By the way, Manish and I are simply in the UK.

Such boring people, aren't we?

The audio from Chris Cooper is of very poor quality.

Finley, can I just ask what's going on there?

Hello, hello.

Yeah, is your mic on or not?

I'm using Neil's mic.

It feels like it's not that one that's selected.

Or it's a shit mic.

No, you never sound like that.

I've just tried this with Teams just to test it,

and you sounded, Sarah said it's fine.

Yes.

It's still the same, put it over there.

No.

Hello, hello, hello.

That's it.

Is that any better?

Yeah, that does sound better.

We should just play all this.

Don't stop the recording.

No, no, I leave it all on.

This is behind the scenes.

Yes.

Yeah, that's exactly, yeah.

Okay, so we'll just keep going.

So Chris Cooper is doing an impression like he's recording in 1977.

The rest of us are in 2026.

The first point on today's agenda just says, spring is in the air, which I think is a remarkably

positive way of looking at the weather that I've experienced in the last week.

But I suppose I've been to a car event and I get the feeling that the green shoots of

car events and what you might do with your four-wheeled friends are just beginning to

take shape, aren't they?

Let's ask Neil Clifford, who sounds like he's from this decade.

I think it's a lovely little Chris Cooper suggestion, this, because it's all about mornings

are getting a little earlier, aren't they?

The sun, we're beginning to see the sun peeking up a bit earlier.

I'm not sure the sun isn't lasting any longer.

I'm not sure which way it goes around.

But probably it is a little bit lighter in the morning.

It is about 38 minutes longer than it was beginning of.

Yes.

Yeah.

And it's all about getting prepared, isn't it?

Make sure your MOTs are done.

Make sure your tyres are pumped up.

I know it's raining a lot, but you know, cars don't shrink.

You know, get out and drive them anyway.

And there's lots to look forward to.

I know we're not allowed to disclose any of this, but we've got things to look forward to.

In April, we've got things to look forward to.

In May, we've got things to look forward to.

I think Mr. Cooper in June, it's only July.

Yeah.

So we're going to share some dates in the next few weeks about things to look forward to,

which unfortunately involves us.

But we're going to try and make it interesting.

I'm going to tease this, all right.

We are about to revolutionise the uncompetitive slow-moving track day scene

in a way that has never been seen before.

We're about to subvert the whole genre.

Yes, we are.

Maybe we should we share a date in May?

Should we at least pick it up?

I don't think we can yet, but I think we've got to drip this.

So I'm going to say now.

Let's drip it in, yes.

This is a track day at which it'll be more important what sponge cake you turn up with

than how fast you are or whether your brakes last.

In fact, we'll be offended if anyone at this track day can really drive fast.

Or get into fourth gear.

Yeah, exactly.

So lots to look forward to.

Spring is in the air.

I like it.

I think I'll do a bit of a we've got to we're doing our weekly round up.

We aren't going to go into that straight away.

But I can do it now.

Well, I sort of it sort of the two have dovetailed a bit for me

because I went to the fat ice race at the weekend,

which I've always looked at these things a bit from afar,

because I'm a miserable bastard, as you know.

I'm like, well, everyone's out in the ice and someone's driving

a McLaren F1 on the slush scene or don't really give a shit.

I'm a bit like that.

But once I got to 30s party on the ice, I thought it was absolutely brilliant.

The key to a good event is there's always something going on.

You know, that's the key to these things.

It's like when you go to a really good concert, you know,

with the three support acts of brilliant somehow,

the main act is even better because you just is a crescendo of activities.

And fair play to this.

There was always something going on.

There was a BMW drift car that burned to the ground right in front of us.

Then there was everything from Bentley speeds, pre 30 Bentley speed sixes

to World Rally car skidding about then a helicopter,

Redpool helicopter put on a show of aerobatics

that I'll put up on my internet, which made no sense at all.

If you understand physics, there was a stunt plane,

which I think was a yak, which sort of aimed itself at the crowd.

Somehow missed us, was just phenomenal to watch.

There was lots of happy, smiley faces.

No one cared about winning anything.

I told the wonderful Hedvig, who's a Norwegian skiing ace,

check out her Instagram now, I'll stick it up.

She's amazing around the place behind the Bentley.

Do you know what?

I just reminded me that these events that happen out of season for us Brits are really

they're really important because it's a chance to use your cars.

It's a seasonal hobby being Carthus just in the UK.

It really is a lot of people don't want to get their cars out.

I get the whole cars don't shrink in the wet,

but they do rust like feck if you go out on the salty road.

And no one wants to come back to their car in March, having parked it up

and find a load of bubbles on the arches and stuff.

That would be shattering, wouldn't it?

Yeah, I think it just I like looking forward.

And actually, you don't need to be doing anything.

You need to be planning, don't you?

So you should it's about it's about the joy of sitting down and going,

well, what road trips am I going to go on?

Who am I going to see?

What events am I going to go on?

How long am I going to go to the Isle of Manfall?

All that I like aspect of it.

That's what I get into.

So I've got lots of other things I've done this week.

I drove the old Bentley Continental T all the way to Zell Amseye back

at the two thousand three hundred miles.

Fuel consumption was.

I think the only adjective I can use is interesting.

It's absolutely bizarre.

But but it is sometimes it's wonderful to do something in a car

that it was designed to do.

I don't I think the the Conti T's reach is probably beyond the shores

of this island.

You know, it feels like it should need a bigger planet.

Yeah. And so and I'm glad that we did that.

And you're allowed to tell us what it's sort of vaguely averaged at.

Broadly speaking, miles per gallon or kilometres per litre.

Do you know what I'll go out?

I'll do some mass, some accurate maths for you.

But I think 10 it's a it's about on a on a on a whisper throttle.

It's about 10. Yeah.

Use it because, of course, it's not at 90 miles an hour.

It's doing about two thousand two hundred RPM because it only revs to four and a half.

It's not it's not great if I'm honest with you.

And if you're in if in Austria, you're buying super unledded, you know,

I think again is you're spending a hundred pound a day just moving around.

So but it's a there won't be around forever.

And I'm so pleased I've got it.

And I'm Bentley's making some moves at the moment.

I'm very glad that I'm playing my little part in my little quantity.

So that's it.

There's other things that have happened this week,

but we're going to do that later on.

I'd rather come back to this.

It fits in with this spring thing.

I our message is go out and do something.

And if you don't want to do something, start planning, planet, planet.

It's almost better planning it than actually doing it.

So I think we agree.

It's like we said about the car purchase, wasn't it?

Once you've done all the research, then the bloody thing lands.

You're like, oh, move on, move on.

Manish, what have you?

Spring is in the air.

What's what's your thoughts on this, Manish?

You know, I came to this from a slightly biological angle.

I was thinking to myself.

What is spring?

It's spring.

Spring is a time, really, if you think about a fertility and fecundity.

It's all about creatures.

That's how many kids you can have.

So another one for him.

So the only view was this, then, if you think about cars and spring and procreating,

what you really are asking in this question is cars that make you horny.

That is what it's getting at, isn't it?

And that then takes us well into kind of Derek and Clive territory, doesn't it?

Tell me a car that makes you really, really horny.

Well, I do like and it's got to be some kind of convertible Ferrari that makes you horny.

And then you have to have that Derek and Clive negative thing, don't you?

Which is if John L.

Can phone me up and he said, you can have a Ferrari Roma.

I wouldn't take it.

It doesn't make me horny.

And I think that's what spring is about.

It's about thinking about the cars that are going to be beautiful.

They're going to be out in the spring that are going to make your jaw drop.

They're the things that you're going to say.

That's what I think spring is in the air means to me.

So Lola's having a service.

She should be a big service, can't high performance, doing a beautiful job.

I will be picking her up next week.

She makes me horny.

My future R107.

I bet you will make me very horny.

And Chris tried to put me off a Conti T with his 10 miles per gallon.

Well, I'll tell you, fat international makes you horny.

Are you confusing this morning

with the only fans version of our podcast Manish?

I mean, just perhaps I am, perhaps I am.

But spring is in the air in an interesting way.

Manish has always proved to be

sometimes the more tangential member of this quartet.

That one, that one really does take some beating, but I like it.

I think spring spring is a fascinating thing,

because I'm not even sure spring exists in the UK anymore.

You sort of we sort of stumble out of winter.

And then then you find it's that one day

you're wearing your thick down jacket and the next day you're in a t-shirt

sweating, aren't you thinking, well, where did that come from?

And I think with car usage, I've always found

actually spring does exist to us car lovers

because spring is not necessarily the day when the when it gets that much warm.

But it's probably the day when you feel I can go out in the car.

There's not going to be too much salt on the roads.

I can normal service resumes.

And of course, TSA, it was completely wrong about April.

But if you love cars, it's not the coolest month at all, is it?

It's the best month of all.

I think I think apart from salt,

I think the UK probably has the best climate in the world for cars.

Yeah. You know, I'm here in New York.

It's minus was minus 15 on Monday.

Wow.

And then suddenly it's 34 degrees.

We're very lucky with the sort of average.

I think what we average 11. Yeah.

I think I think I can't remember.

It's true, actually, that ratio of those more convertible cars sold

in the UK, the most other nations.

That's because we've got a lovely climate for convertible.

It's not too bloody hot.

We've we've actually that's actually taking a real beating.

Last year, we suddenly stopped buying convertibles in this country.

Yes, Cooper, what does the spring bring for you?

You've all said it.

And I think the reason why I thought about this as a question

on Saturday morning, Saturday was in the UK, was a rare day

when it didn't shed down with rain all day.

And a little bit of a glimmer.

And you got out early with stuff to do on the farm

and you could hear birds in the trees.

And there's nothing more optimistic than that.

Now I'm sitting in Neil's office as Neil.

I feel even more optimistic.

Neil's office, I think, is permanently spring.

That's what I think.

I feel so good about it.

I've given everybody here the day off.

Yes.

Yeah.

So, no, honestly, it's the right thing.

I feel so good about it.

I've given everyone the day off.

Why not?

He's.

It is.

It's it's the it's the planning.

It's the anticipation that you can hear the birds

and the rate of acceleration of the length thing

in the days as we get to the equinox.

Yeah, that's true.

There's a graph there.

Is accelerating away for every day is a little bit more of more.

Planning what we're going to do, thinking about,

I'm going to start checking all of the tyres.

Think about where I'm going to go.

Think about the events that we're planning,

which has been really exciting to talk about with sort of people

outside who are going to help us do stuff.

And that sense of optimism.

There's too much negativity and angst and extremism in the world.

And I do think the car, the car brings so many people together.

And that sense of it's the happiest time of the year.

Honestly, it is the greens is just extra green.

The snow drops are daffodils are nearly coming out.

It's going to rain a bit for another week or so.

But after that, it will just be, I think it's for car people.

Thinking about getting run race license renewed,

did that this week.

Might not use it this year, didn't use it last year,

but at least it's there.

And like it knows there and it feels optimistic

that might even go testing and something or whatever.

But it's just, it's the thought of renewing it

and thinking about going out and doing some driving.

It's all lovely, lovely stuff.

I think that's a lovely subject.

I won't use it, but it's there.

Exactly.

And not having it feels really negative.

And when you'll never do anything,

you know, what's that famous phrase?

Was it about baseball or basketball?

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

Yeah, that's a very good.

I almost expect to find that little piece of wisdom

written somewhere about Neil's office,

because that's a very Neil thing to say, I think.

Let's move on, let's move on to the next.

We're using phrases this week.

We've become very nuanced.

Less is more.

Now, I think we all know that we all sort of believe this.

Or rather, are we a bit fraudulent?

Do we like to say that?

Because we think this ingratiates us with you,

the great connoisseur of car enthusiasm.

But actually, we all drive around in 1.7 tonne family saloon cars,

because we like the comfort, we like all the creature comforts.

And if someone said, do you want to drive your AXGT to Zalabze,

I'd go, of course I would.

And then have the thing trucked over and fly.

That's the man from Aston Martin's thing.

He's phoning me because he wants me to invite me

to drive the Valhalla.

Should I do that or not?

Yeah, I won't.

Oh, no.

All right, right there.

Let me just answer it now.

Kev, mate, we're just recording the podcast live.

So you're actually on the phone call.

There's old Kev.

Stick him on there for you.

There we go.

There's Kev.

That's Kev.

There we go.

So I'm just going to say,

I'm going to sort the dates out with you later on, all right?

But the lads are in their love,

and they're very interested in me coming to drive your car, all right?

Brilliant.

Cheers, mate.

Good luck with the podcast.

Thank you, mate.

There you go.

Little Kev.

He's a ledge.

So I fear there's a little bit of fraudulence in this phrase.

And I'd like to unpick it because it's a it's a philosophy

that I think you feel you should adhere to.

But sometimes if you are scrutinised, you don't always do it.

Is that fair enough, Neil Clifford?

You know, I am looking forward to almost the most

getting back to the UK and driving my little alpine.

Yeah.

So I do think often less is more,

but often more is more.

The good thing is we can just change our bloody minds

whenever we want, because it doesn't really matter

what type of car we're driving.

Old, new, fat, skinny, heavy, fast, automatic, manual, V8, V6,

whatever, doesn't really matter what bloody car.

It's just I'm driving a car and I'm moving along and I'm dreaming.

And that's what, for me, is gets my imagination going, driving

and makes me more optimistic.

But today's thought is the Alpine 110.

What a spectacular little car.

Yeah. Yeah.

So what we're saying is I love this less is more and more is more.

Yeah. Yeah.

Managed given your current mental state, I'd love to know

where you're going to go with this one.

What are we going to start talking about?

I'm going to talk to you about my favourite subject of all,

which is F and Senna.

There we go.

And he had a little bit of an itch about this,

because the one thing he didn't win in terms of World Championships

because of funny rule changes, this kind of thing, that kind of thing,

the count backs was the World Go Karting Championship.

And he regarded Go Karting as the best test of driving skill.

Full-air-ton.

Exactly. Full-air-ton.

That's why I thought full-air-ton was so brilliant.

Because if you have an accelerator, a brake pedal and a steering wheel,

that is the ultimate basis of driving.

And that is the ultimate less is more.

And he always felt the truest measure of a driver

was to just simply manipulate those three things in equal machinery and win.

And he never quite managed to do that.

And I think certainly in Formula One terms,

you know, I look at cars, how they've evolved, how the racing has evolved.

There's a beauty and there's a simplicity to those cars in the 50s,

on the 60s, you know, they added basically a gearbox.

Then it started to go a little bit squidgy, didn't it?

They started to add wings.

And, you know, you're suddenly dealing with a kind of different way.

And then, you know, we get the advent of something like a turbocharger,

which needs a different kind of driving.

And perhaps Neil is right, you know, as each system augments the racing,

you know, you find it, indeed, you find a different kind of driver.

And it kind of brings me to where we're going or to where we've got to.

You know, we got to a point with modern motor racing,

where we felt we needed to have DRS.

In other words, we made the racing, if you like, impure.

We added something.

We added something more to make it sort of, you know, almost artificially exciting.

And now I'm...

That's true.

So this is my, so from my sort of, you know, F1e racing-y, I read about it.

I don't actually do it background.

I mean, I'd say the most fun I've ever had in a car, ever, by Miles,

was doing the Formula Ford driving at Silverstone when we got...

It's just a four-speed gearbox.

The movement from first to second is what?

Five inches, four inches?

A little bit more.

The lateral movement's an inch?

No, it's seven inches.

Four inches.

That's so rude.

No, exactly.

But it was so...

There was no really skinny tyres.

So actually, even I could, you know, oversteer a car.

Even I could do a 180 in a car.

You know, just...

And it just had enough power.

And it was really the most exciting thing.

One step beyond a go-kart.

And I just...

I do wonder whether, certainly in Formula One, maybe less is more.

Maybe, you know, it's one of those things where I can be a bit of an old foggy

and go, I wonder if it was sort of better then.

And this year, for me, is going to be quite a year with all the bits and pieces,

all the things that they're going to have to do,

all the sort of slightly counterintuitive stuff.

There's no doubt someone will get it right or a bunch of people will get it right.

But I do wonder whether, certainly in racing, less is more.

We need a go-karting day.

Oh, I'm in.

I'm in. Only if you teach us.

Will you teach us properly?

Yeah, OK.

Yeah.

I'm doing a go-karting thing tomorrow for FAT actually,

which is this amazing league they've started, which is a great thing.

Yeah, a FAT-karting league, yeah.

I must have missed the invite.

Yeah.

Well, no, it's not an invite.

I'm actually going to do some presenting.

You're more than happy.

I know that you're a man of many talents now,

but I'm sure the TV career is looming.

I can't wait to see it.

Um, so...

Well, I've made a film.

I mean, well, I could have made it.

You're basically a star.

Stop it.

Oh.

You bastard.

Right.

Oh.

Neil Cliff, I'm sorry, Chris Cooper, Less Is More.

Less Is More.

And I thought about this two things I saw,

maybe think we've lost sight of Less Is More.

I saw somewhere on some Instagram a really beautiful DB12 coupe

coming out of a showroom or a shed or something.

People standing around it.

It's just too big.

And I thought if it was a 90% version,

910 scale version of that, that would be just perfect.

Why can't it be?

I know there's lots of reasons why,

but if you start from all the regulations and all those kinds,

you'll find a reason to make it bigger.

And you think customers want more space and more gadgets

and gizmos and so forth.

But if somebody just said, you know, I'm not going to do that,

I'm actually going to start.

I'm going to, the first thing I'm going to write down

is not all the regulations, not the business case,

not the styling and the marketing department's requirements.

I'm just going to write down the piece of paper, Less Is More.

And I think it ended up where Gordon Murray has ended up

with his cars.

They are really small.

They are, yeah.

They are really small.

I've had my thoughts about the one with the big vacuum cleaner

in the back, but put that aside.

They're beautiful because they're small.

I totally agree.

And also, they really grow on you.

That T50 when I first saw it, every, now I've driven one as well.

Every time you see it, you go, oh, okay.

And they're doing lots of pretty,

they're doing lots of different, prettier versions,

but I've got a funny feeling the original T50

might be the one in 10 years time.

Yeah, it might be.

Another thing I, the other thing that made me think this,

the other day, we've got a nine year old,

Mercedes A160 in the family.

It's in that doom blue, the one they all came out on.

There must have been lease cars at the time.

And tiny little engine.

It's about 1.3, 1.4 liter engine turbo thing.

Not very powerful, but it's nice and dinky,

quite a good automatic gearbox.

And it's small and you can drive into London.

You can go on the motorway, you can go on the M25,

you can go to Cornwall and there's something nice about,

this is as small as it could be.

And I think we've missed that.

And I think somebody writing it down would be really good.

It's my-

I fundamentally agree with this,

but I still maintain that it's become a little bit of a badge

that's worn falsely by people to demonstrate their car

enthusiast credentials.

And if anyone actually came out and said,

look, small light cars are a bit shit.

I really like having all my creature comforts,

and they tried to turn on his head.

They'd be immediately thrown out the door

because they wouldn't be part of the family.

And that worries me slightly,

because I think the church should be broader.

And I've bought this podcast before with the story

of Midsunosan when he told us,

when he launched the R35 GTR,

and he just turned around and said,

I wanted the weight.

And I've got a car that needed traction.

I've done it so much I could do.

Weight gives me traction.

And on the road, it doesn't matter

whether you have 1,600 to 600 kilograms,

we're clever enough, you don't feel it.

And I often drive cars.

I had a discussion with, is it the G87 M2?

Is that the current one?

A lot of people shit-cam that car,

but I think people are learning to love it now.

One of the main criticisms

of all the people that had never driven it

when it came out was it's just twice too heavy.

And it is a heavy car,

but it feels lighter than its predecessor.

Human beings are clever things.

And I think mass is only a problem unless,

if you feel it, if you don't feel the mass,

it's just a number that you might see in fuel consumption.

But as we discussed,

our church doesn't care about fuel consumption,

we just pay for the fuel.

So I think where less is more becomes very powerful to me,

is that I can talk about this broad church.

I've got heavy cars.

I saw Gordon Murray at a do a while ago.

In fact, no, it wasn't, it was on this podcast, wasn't it?

He came on this podcast.

That's a do.

That's a do, yeah.

He took the piss out of my company.

I thought it's when I saw him,

I thought it's when I saw him recently at a do, it wasn't.

He was on this podcast and he went,

I haven't bought Bentley Continental.

And I thought to myself, yeah, he's right.

I'm being a bit anti my own philosophy here,

because I do find great joy and interest in heavy cars

and the way they go down roads and what they were built for.

And I like pretending I'm someone else.

That's why you buy a Bentley Continental T.

You want to pay someone else.

So, but there's something,

there's a revelationary aspect to light cars,

to small cars that only belongs to small light cars.

If you drive a very healthy small light car,

an ASGT, a 205, a Lotus Elise,

it's rarely a modern car,

because nothing is old enough or still has unassisted steering.

There's a moment of revelation where you think this,

not only is this brilliant, but I'm really enjoying it.

And I've got options,

because the road suddenly feels so much wider to me.

And I do believe it's a moment of revelation.

It's not an entirely biblical reference.

People aren't going to be on a horseback running past me,

but I think that's the great thing

about the less is more philosophy,

is that when it hits you hard,

it hits you right in the side of Plexus,

and you realise that it is important,

and that it does matter,

and that Colin Chapman was right all along,

because he just makes you smile more.

And you feel like you feel like you're beating the system.

And I love that.

And also you feel like you're slightly on your own.

And also you have the ability to look around everyone else

and go, you're all getting this a bit wrong.

And I'm getting it right.

And then you have a crash and you die,

and you realise that you probably

shouldn't be in a two-tonne Range Rover.

Let's move on on that happy note.

Coding's amazing, makes you feel fantastic.

Here we go.

You should take some Tramadol.

That will really make you feel fantastic.

I might have one of those.

I'll write this down.

No.

It's off-top that look better with a hard top.

Well, this is really good, this is.

Let's go to Neil first,

he'll have a strong opinion.

This is a Neil one.

It is.

Oh, I'm obsessed with this.

By the way, is the reason why convertible sales

have dropped in the UK

because there aren't any good electric car convertibles?

I think it's partly that,

but I also think it's partly,

there's the type of person that buys a convertible

is either hanging onto their car because of that,

or they're buying used convertibles.

If I wanted to buy a convertible in sports car now,

I wouldn't buy a new one.

I'd go and buy a two-year,

I'd buy a late 991 cab,

or I'd buy an SL or something.

The great convertibles are gone, aren't they?

I think it's a valid point.

I think that it's all connected, I think.

I think that, you know,

it probably is part of the death of the convertible,

is the EV maybe,

but anyway, that's another subject.

I think, oh, I love a convertible with a hard top.

Do you?

Yes, I think it obviously is quite inconvenient,

is the reality of it is quite inconvenient

because they're bloody heavy, those things.

And there's not many of them you can take off

with one person,

but I think there's something,

it makes the car more complex.

It sends a different,

oh, this guy, this guy must be,

he must use that 365 days a year.

He's such a hardy chap.

He's got a convertible,

but he's also using it in the winter.

But I think from a looks perspective,

which really is the question,

I don't think you can beat E-Type,

Series 1, Roadster with hard top.

I think that that hard top,

and we can debate whether it's color matching.

I almost like it non-color matching.

I like the sort of the practicality or simplicity

of the black hard top on the green car

or the black hard top on the red car.

Although I've got a very good friend, Paul,

that's got a beautiful, beautiful blue,

fabulous E-Type with a blue hard top.

And just, I mean, just looks bloody gorgeous.

If I was going to say another one, R107,

I think R107 with hard top.

I think that's also magnificent,

but bloody hell, you need three people

to lift that thing off.

And you're bound to sort of mark the back

and then you can't get,

because it's all that sort of German mechanical thing,

locking it down.

You can never get the bloody thing on or off.

So once you've bought one with a hard top,

you're never getting the soft top out.

Good luck with that, Manish.

Yeah, I think it's just a lovely thing,

soft top with hard top.

Manish.

I mean, Neil has stolen it from me, the R107, I think,

with the hard top looks fantastic.

In fact, there's one, which is about 200 yards away.

It's that very, very light.

It's almost like a lime green,

and the hard top is on all the time.

I've never seen it with the hard top off.

And now you've explained why,

because I'm going to need his Parisian friends

to take it on or off.

But there's a good R107.

No, it's a Pagoda hard top story.

Apparently, Bernie once did a deal

with another used car salesman.

And let's say that guy was a little economical

with the truth in the car that he sold to Bernie.

Exactly.

So, you know, Bernie being the charitable human being

with no elephant-like memory that he is,

doesn't forget this.

So 10 years later or something,

he puts an ad out saying,

Mercedes hard top for sale.

I don't know whether it was a Pagoda R107.

I almost suspect Pagoda because of the year,

but so the guy turns up and he can't believe

how cheap this Mercedes hard top is.

Just can't believe it.

So they do the deal.

He hands over the money,

go into the parking lot,

and there is in a parking space a hard top, just no car.

And that was the deal that Bernie did to get this guy back.

He paid 10,000 for a hard top.

And fair enough, you know, decade later.

I think I've just Googled, would you say that,

Ferrari convertible with hard top?

Because all you do is get Portofino's and Calli T's.

And I think what I agree with Neil is that

the modern convertible that is a hard top,

I'm glad they're going,

because I think they don't respect the romance

of the Favorese car.

Yeah, absolutely.

Chris Cooper, where do you go with this?

Until you said Neil, that Series 1 Jag with that beautiful,

and your friend Paul put it on his Instagram,

it's beautiful, it's like a baby blue colour, isn't it?

Guy blue, that is very, very pretty.

I was going to say, I don't think any soft tops

are better with a hard top.

Really?

And I think it's to do with,

I'm a bit of an aesthetic,

because, and I remember, because I'm older than all of you,

I remember I grew up in Kent,

and there was an outfit in, is it Lenham hard tops?

An outfit called Lenham made hard tops.

I think in the little village of Lenham in Kent,

somebody, great, I never got that wrong.

And they were quite functional,

because in those days soft tops didn't work very well,

they let the rain in.

So in the winter, if you didn't have a garage,

put your thing in, you put a hard top in,

keep the thing from flooding the whole time.

So they were kind of functional,

rather than aesthetic or usable.

Now, it's sort of, when you see a soft top with a hard top on,

you think, oh, I can't use it, I can't get to the soft top.

It's stuck, it's sort of like, it's locked in this shell.

And it just sends all the wrong signals to me about,

oh, you've kind of emasculated that soft top.

It's not quite what I wanted to feel like.

That's maybe why Porsche have never done,

oh, they did it with the boxer, early boxer, didn't they?

But there's very rarely a 911.

They did, the 996 had a hard, I had a 996 cab.

996 had one, yeah.

And it came with a hard top, that when the thing was delivered,

I thought, actually, what do I, I took it off,

and I never saw it again.

I don't know where it was.

In fact, when I sold it, nobody had bothered even asking me,

have you got the hard top?

It's become buried somewhere.

So, Chris, you know, I was gonna say,

they can be very, very ugly, all right?

And if you look at the AlphaSider, look at the hard top,

no one made a good hard top with that.

Part of it is aesthetic, but part of it is the,

how it makes you feel about the soft top.

It's sort of been encased, and it's sort of slightly caged,

and you can't, you can't get at it.

It's interesting this, because I've got a 129,

and there is always that moment

when you've had the hard top on for the winter,

and you go, you press the, you have to,

that amazing big sort of bold, sweet,

Haribo red button that lights up,

that basically is the key to enjoying your car,

because sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Everyone holds their breath

when you try and do the long release,

as to get the bloody hard top off,

and it doesn't always work.

And then the special spanner comes out,

and then you start, you phone that one bloat

that's got the manuals that tries to help you get it off.

I'm gonna take it off,

and you've got to put it on the special stand,

which costs a bloody fortune.

So...

We had a situation on that, didn't we?

We did with yours, didn't we?

One of yours.

Yeah, we couldn't get it.

Bloody nightmare.

You start, you can manually release it,

then you end up with it sort of,

you end up with a semi, don't you?

We're sort of half on, half off.

You're not quite sure what you're doing.

Oops.

And I, I quite like,

I suppose I quite like the theater of it all,

because it's always good fun,

but there is a heart in mouth moment

when one is hoping it'll work.

I've got one for you.

This is strange for me.

I've got two.

I've got one that I think,

I still find it odd when I see one.

I think it looks so good.

And the other one is me being a little bit,

a little bit obtuse and trying to show off,

because we like to show off now and again, don't we?

So the first one is the first generation MX-5.

I was just about to say that.

They look really bloody good with a hard top.

I think they look great.

And it's a bit of chrome on the back of the erm,

and I just think that if the,

if that was an homage to a 60s sports car,

it looks more like a 60s sports car

with its hard top in place than it's really.

That is a good observation.

Do you think you can lift that by yourself?

Is it?

I bet you can.

Yeah, probably.

No, they're bloody heavy.

No.

Well, you've got one, goodness, yes.

By the letter of the law,

the one that I'm really, it's growing on me is,

it doesn't have a removable hard top,

but it's actually a convertible with a permanent hard top,

and it's the Porsche 997 Targa.

So what we don't know, many people,

is that the Targa isn't a coupe with the roof cutter holding,

it's a convertible with a structure built onto it,

with a Targa, and it makes it a hatchback,

but also with a Targa roof.

And I have to say, when they were new,

I thought they were shite,

but now, I think 997 Targas looked really good,

because I like the facelift rear light

with the droop on it.

Oh, yes.

So I think I could, I think I could do one of them.

So it's a, it's a, what it is,

it's a convertible with a permanent hard top.

There's a T-shirt for you,

a convertible with a permanent hard top,

definition of paradox by the C-H-O-C podcast.

That's being added to the T-shirt list.

Can we make sure that the letters are small enough

so that all of the word hard top gets printed?

Yeah.

Is there something about the hard top?

It's a bit like,

on a farm at the end of the winter,

animals come out of the shed and go back into the field.

And it's a punctuation of, it's the season thing again.

And I can sort of see that the moment where it's time,

it's today, we're going to take the hard top off,

whatever it is, and put it in that little cradle

on the garage or the back of the shed

on a little bit of a sack sort of towel thing,

the bottom edge of it doesn't get dirty and crinkly.

It's that punctuation of, it's the soft top again.

I kind of like the theatre and the symbolism of,

it's that day, it's today, it's six, seven, eight months

until it goes back on again.

I sort of get that.

It's all very well until you can't get the fecking thing

to go on or you can't take it.

I mean, if a Mercedes can't do it,

then nothing can do it, can it?

Right, best or worst horn position.

Now this, I have to say, there's no levity in this at all.

This is an important subject.

And I don't want any jokes in your answers, you take it,

you treat this subject with the seriousness it deserves,

because when this is wrong,

this is one of the most frustrating things,

because when you're pushing hard as an airbag,

hoping it will make a noise,

because you've been offended by someone,

it's bloody annoying.

So, and you realise that the horn is actually located

by your left patella.

You're like, what's it doing down there?

It's no use to me at all.

Let's go and manage.

I think best horn position has to be right

in the middle of a steering wheel.

I think it was my idea or something.

And it had two smaller horn buttons

on the cross-members of the steering wheel,

and you just can't find them.

You sort of miss them.

That's horrible.

I'm not also a massive fan of cars with horns,

and this could be controversial on stalks,

on indicator stalks.

Not a massive fan of that at all.

Friend had an MGB.

Can't remember what year.

It was the 70s.

I had it back, you had to keep doing that.

All Citrins did that, didn't they?

For a while, basically Renault's did that.

It was a very 70s French phenomenon

that we seem to have adopted.

And I think you know where you need to be

when you need to make a horn noise,

and it's that, isn't it?

You've got to punch the middle of the steering wheel.

There is just...

Is there an alternative?

Really?

Oh.

Well, that's interesting, because I reckon

I'm not going to demonstrate this

if you can't see, you're listening,

you can't see this.

So I think that if you're driving a car like this,

the horn position is naturally...

It's something you do with the ball of your hand.

Absolutely.

Fine.

Because I think there's a metaphor in there.

What you're doing is you're saying,

fuck, you're like, it's got to be...

The horn is that, you know?

It's not this, that's not a horn thing to do.

That's not a horn, that's a game of thumb wars.

You know, maybe you should have that one,

which is right of enough for you,

or as you did on the original many little...

That's a two gesture.

That's a get out my way gesture.

So here we go.

What do you think, Chris Cooper?

See, you kind of got to the heart of what I think

this question is interesting,

because this question...

I think it's a great question,

because it goes to the heart of temperament

and how you want to feel when you're driving.

And I think that the big thing

in the middle of the...

It sort of plays to that getting worked up.

My favorite horn position, and my Defender has it.

So in the end of the stalk.

Yes, it's...

It's a fiddly stalk.

And you can't quite reach it from your hand being on the steering wheel.

You've got to take your hand off the steering wheel.

So it's a measured and considered gesture.

And you have to think about it.

That's a very British Leyland horn position.

It's a very...

They were all like the minis.

That was all where the horn was.

I'm not sure.

I think the movement,

unless you're from a certain generation,

that movement is associated with a washer.

I think you're going to take that with...

That means I'm going to clean my windscreen.

Doesn't mean I'm going to give someone a toot-toot.

He doesn't agree, you know.

He doesn't agree.

Because you're sitting in the CEO's chair today,

doesn't mean you can behave like one.

No, no give her thoughts.

Maybe it's an age thing.

Maybe the man of the 70s is always a stalk horn man.

Yeah.

That's a pretty sure.

The man of the 70s was always a stalk horn man.

I've just had a week in India.

And the use of the horn in India is incredible.

I almost think that the horn is on more than it's off in India.

And to contrast that with the UK,

which if there was in the back of the...

What are those things you never read?

The Economist of the stats of countries.

Yes, the horn use percentage of the United Kingdom.

I think we would be right at the bottom of that graph.

Do you?

It's a very...

Yes.

I think it's a very rare.

Now, the point I'm getting to is when you want to make that move,

which I think is maximum three or four times a year.

I mean, we really don't use the horn.

You find...

I don't use the horn to, you know,

it's only when someone literally is reversing back

or their car is rolling back into you on a hill and you're like,

you idiot, you're going to ruin my day

by just fundamentally falling into my car.

That's...

But you want the horn instantly.

It's...

There's like a...

You need it within point two of a second

or there's going to be a disaster.

That is the centre of the steering wheel.

The instant move is back on the steering wheel.

I totally agree on horn usage as well.

I just think it's...

In the UK, it's a slightly redundant object.

It just doesn't...

No one really pays much attention.

It's like a car alarm or a house alarm.

There's a house alarm went off near me not long ago

and people were just pictured coming out of the house with their goods.

But everyone just thought it was another house.

No one gives a shit.

No one pays any attention to house alarms or car alarms.

I think if you stop beeping your horn,

the first thing...

The first people don't think is,

oh, what can we do to help this offended person?

They just think, who's that swap beep in their horn, don't they?

No one cares.

It doesn't really get you anywhere.

So why would you use it?

I think the only time I use a horn, actually,

now I'm sort of deep diving into my horn usage,

is small country roads.

Because there is a use of the horn,

which is not an aggression or a statement.

It's about, I'm coming around the corner

and now driving in the United Kingdom,

which is also wonderful,

is you are being part of the Tour de France every weekend

because obviously everyone has given up golf

and they're now on bloody bicycles,

which is a little bit annoying,

is that you've actually got to toot your horn

because if a man in his lycra comes around the corner,

it could be quite a dangerous situation.

And of course, there will be your fault.

Always.

So you do have to use the horn

when you are driving sometimes

on very high-hedgy, narrow country roads.

Well, I've enjoyed, in the last week,

we have several times,

spent some time, I drove out there with Christian,

who does a bit of filming with me.

Used to work for me 10 years ago as my assistant,

somehow he survived that experience.

And sometimes you'd say,

which horn shall we select?

Because it's got the an,

and it's quite funny when we decide,

we'll go for the urban horn.

They don't deserve the full twinge.

So I personally think the worst horn positions

are anything that involves you doing this with your thumb,

because a horn is redundant if you have to look where it is.

If you look where it is, you've missed the moment.

You just need to be there.

The hidden little buttons within the steering wheel

is the worst place.

Normally with corrugated leather

or some sort of holes that make you think...

You could own the car for 10 years,

drive it every single day,

you still won't remember where the horn is.

No.

And what you wouldn't do is you'll put the airbag,

you'll either give it that one,

the airbag won't move,

or you'll do this and you'll let the water on your screen.

But the one thing you won't do is activate the horn.

Just saying the central London horn use, 99% of the time,

is the second car at a traffic light.

Noticing the guy in front is on his phone

and misses the traffic light change.

That is when I hear the horn in London.

Or someone that's just bloody impatient,

that's behind you,

that's just a bit of a knob.

Could be, yes.

The country road thing is interesting, isn't it?

We live on a little lane that's got some sort of 90...

Don't know why,

they're just almost random 90 degree bends and blind bends.

And there are those who clearly think

the only way to navigate the lane

is to almost be on the horn the whole time.

And it's bloody antisocial.

Whereas if you just slowed down a bit,

you wouldn't have to use the horn.

Yes, if somebody came around at a million miles an hour.

But they're going to hit you anyway.

Are you accusing me of driving up your lane?

We've got CCTV, I'll go and check.

Number plate recognition.

So I do think it's about temperament.

And I do like where it is on the Land Rover.

I think listening to all of you,

I use the horn a lot more than all of you put together.

I just don't feel like I do.

It's sort of...

But that's going to circle straight back too.

Sprigg is in the air and managed being horny.

Yeah, I think a teacher should be use less horn.

I don't think too much horn doesn't help anyone.

I'm adding it to the list now.

Less horn is more.

Use less horn.

Okay, so we're going to go on this week to...

This week's car industry news.

And there's Tesla's been in the news.

And our resident Tesla correspondent,

who basically he's got...

He's got...

He's tracked two words on the internet managed us.

He sits there with a bottle of vodka that's warm.

Because he doesn't like it cold.

He's got a warm vodka and he has l-can

and he has must on his screen.

And if there's a story that comes up, he's on it.

He's honing it.

So let's get going on Tesla this week, Manish.

This could have been a diatribe.

I'm going to make it really, really punchy.

Because how could you possibly know I do that?

It's completely true.

We know.

Because you always share it with us.

Brilliant.

I'm so sorry.

You're right.

You've got a weird form of Tourette's about these two words.

But it's wonderful.

Go on.

It's great.

It's such good entertainment.

I'll figure it out.

Look, my bugbear with Elon Musk from day one.

I don't think he's a car person.

And he's never been a car person.

And it's really, really bothered me.

I think he is.

He...

I've met these people in banking.

You get these people.

They've got balls the size of planets.

And they are very smart.

So they can find a highly, highly persuasive mathematical model

to support what is basically their bullshit.

And I think, you know, he wasn't a founder.

He is listed as a founder of Tesla.

But he actually...

He came in.

I've forgotten the two men who actually created it.

And I mean, I was just finding some of his bullshit.

There's a wonderful article that Jamie Kittman wrote in Air Mail

called Autofiction.

And by 2022, Elon Musk had stated for nine years in a row

that next year the Tesla would be fully automatic.

It would be full self-driving.

Nine years in a row.

Another brilliant one.

If you can be bothered,

Fine Patrick Boyle,

his YouTube channel is one of the greatest channels out there.

And he just explains that governments made a decision

that we were going to have this 2030.

And the only way, his argument was the early pure electric cars

were basically more like iPhones or bits of beta technology.

And they were adopted by people with lots of money,

not people who had actual need for these things.

So what governments had to do was just have massive subsidies.

Now look at what's happened to Tesla in the United States.

And Trump has got rid of the subsidies.

He's loosened the EPA regulations.

The cars aren't selling.

Now, if Elon Musk was a car guy, if you were Mercedes,

or if you were BMW, or if you were Nissan,

if you were, you know, if your sales fall,

you don't have too much refuge.

What you've got to go and do is you've got to make your product better

or cheaper or something.

What does Elon Musk do?

He just says, well, I'm just getting rid of two of my models.

And how much innovation have we really seen in the Model 3,

the X, the Y, the S, the S special?

I mean, really, have they evolved enormously

in the sort of decade that we've had them in?

His last post was that by 2030,

Tesla would be selling 20 million cars a year.

And last year was 1.63 million.

And what's he pivoting to?

Robots that are going to be in outer space doing the AI work

because you can use solar power and you don't have cooling issues.

I mean, as if that wasn't enough, he's taken his SpaceX.

He's taken a load of money from SpaceX.

He's pumped it into his AI business, XAI,

which is way behind all the others.

I mean, it's just, it's pure snake oil.

And listen, and I'm not saying, you know,

you can get 100 billion in sales.

You must have something going for you

if you can sell that many cars, of course.

But in the end, you know, the Chinese have mobilized,

you know, the Europeans have mobilized.

I think in a nutshell, if we didn't have artificial government

in produced targets, we didn't have the kind of fallacy of 2030.

Snake oil salesmen like this couldn't jump onto subsidies

in the way that they have and effectively,

you know, create these massive businesses

that they're going to just simply move out of.

As soon as you find something that's going to be

much, much more profitable off fuel going dirt,

with the same kind of 20 million Teslas a year,

20 million robots a year,

all on Mars, all doing something, don't know what.

So there you go, end of diatribe.

So do you think he's done these things

and he's, you know, Tesla has gone the way it has done

because he's not a car guy?

Yes, it's exactly that.

Okay, for him, XAI, you know, SpaceX, for him, robots, you know,

they're just optimist robots.

These are just, these are brilliant ideas.

And he's able, through some combination of,

you know, great mathematical modelling,

to, the other thing he's going to do now,

he's going to make chips.

If you want to read about making chips,

read about how hard it is to make chips.

There was a company called Global,

I can't remember, Foundry,

that were going to make the new Intel,

then they worked out how difficult it is actually

to make a new Intel.

Intel tried to make a new Intel and worked out,

they couldn't really make a new Intel.

These things are incredibly, incredibly hard to do.

And I don't think he can do five of them.

What I think he can do is finance five of them.

I think he can, you know, he can get out there.

He can, he can, this man can raise money and move money.

But I think fundamentally, is he a car guy?

Look at the problem.

He clearly likes cars.

I mean, he's bought.

I mean, I don't know him.

I never met him.

Right, brother.

You saying you don't know Elon Musk?

Well, my name, my name, my name,

my name is not in the Epstein files.

So I don't know him.

Some of your notices, I've just put on,

it's quite cold in your office, Neil, actually.

I've just put on this little sort of Gila thing.

If you're cold in your office,

Gila's are available.

Yeah, I like it.

The Tesla sort of almost, but not quite,

became a synonym for the electric car,

like a Dyson or whatever it is.

Hoover.

And all those things.

And it, it clearly lost interest.

And the product, you know, there's lots to talk about

always Tesla suffering compared to other EVs

because of his political,

must political views.

Who knows?

I'm sure for some people it is.

But the same, for me, the much more obvious reason is,

the products, nowhere near as good

as what is otherwise now available.

That usually a cheaper price.

It's simple as that.

The customer has chosen journey.

Why hasn't he been able to innovate

from his massive platform at the same rate

or even at a, at a close to the same rate?

I've got, I've got a.

I think it lost interest.

I, I've got, I've got, I've got a suggestion on this one.

So I went and saw,

by the way, I don't know Elon personally.

So I, I went and saw someone very, very clever last year.

I won't say who they are,

but they're really clever and they work in the car industry.

And I was talking about mass market cars

and asking him about, you know,

where does Europe go from here?

And he just said, I went to China 20 years ago

and realized we were ghosts.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I think Elon's partly lost interest,

but I think he, I think he knew this was coming.

I think he knew that he had a window

to create Tesla.

And really it was a battery pump.

The idea was to get people, you know,

start car companies to launch a battery business.

And I think he knew there was no point

in taking on the Chinese.

Well, you know, effectively he's a private individual

who's competing with the state run industry.

You know, the Chinese car industry,

his state supported, you're not going to,

how are you going to battle it?

What are the Chinese have proved to be brilliant at copying stuff?

They don't really acknowledge intellectual property.

And he always knew that at some point

they were going to get hold of one of his cars,

take it apart and work out how to do it better,

which is what they're, actually,

I'm quite disappointed at how bad a job the Chinese have done.

Although, you know, the JQ, whatever,

has just outsold everything this month

because they're cheap.

But that can't go on forever.

You know, at some point, you know,

the Chinese are brilliantly clever.

They buy, market share, but at some point,

everyone's going to turn around and go,

well, these aren't very good.

They're a bit horrible to live with.

They're probably, you know, there's going to be issues with them.

And also, the prices will not stay low forever.

At some point, they've got to make some money.

But my, my thoughts on the must thing is he's,

he's got SpaceX.

The boring company is an incredible story.

Watch out for that one.

You know, it's just leaving me clever.

He's basically going to be soon at a stage

where he can leave robots in a town

and they'll just start building a tunnel network,

run by about three people

because the robots do it themselves.

I think the Starlink thing, you know,

it's amazing how going to other continents

makes you realise that we have a very

more epic view of the world and technology in Europe.

Now, I was in, in the middle of a,

the bush in Kenya,

and I could put this little dish on the roof of my car

that said Starlink on it, this panel,

and I could, I could connect my phone to it

and I had better internet there

than I'd do in my flat in Bristol.

Yeah.

Because of Elon.

I don't think that those are the,

those aren't the sort of actions of a stupid person.

No.

I'm not, I didn't say you were stupid.

I'm not, I'm not someone that thinks he's the Messiah,

but I do think, I sort of agree with Chris Cooper.

I think he's lost interest,

but I think he's lost interest with,

from a pragmatic point of view.

If he tried to beat the Chinese at the car game now,

you're probably going to lose, aren't you?

It's already, it was too late.

Yeah.

And, and you're right, he probably,

I think he had more of a go at it

than he thought he might do.

My, my instinct has always been that SpaceX,

which has revolutionised how you get stuff into space,

and has made stuff that NASA was doing look incredibly long-winded,

drawn out, expensive.

And, you know, he's, he's definitely,

which is why everyone's salivating over the,

the IPO of that business.

Yeah.

He's, he's, he's done his bit and, you know,

who knows where it'll make, may go.

BF.

I, Neil Cleves, you've answered that one of you.

No.

I don't, I don't want to.

But I would like to bring some more automotive news,

because this section is developing, as we know,

into the news section.

Exactly.

Well, I thought equally as interesting,

maybe as the Tesla thing,

is the fact that Bugatti have actually done a rest-o-mod

of their own car and created a Veyron out of a Chiron.

And I thought, how brilliant is that?

Because obviously the Chiron is a better car,

but it's not as cool as a Veyron.

I think Veyron on the list of cool could up be up there

in top three cars of coolness of evermore.

And someone at Bugatti has said,

you know what, there's a bit of money to be made here.

Why don't we make a Chiron look like a Veyron?

And then, which I thought, oh, just incredible.

And if you have a look at that,

I think it's like nine million quid or euros or dollars

or something, you know, it's ridiculously expensive.

But it does look really bloody good.

And then my brain started going,

well, what if the other manufacturers did this?

Because the Ferrari have obviously tried to do it

in a slightly crap way by just using the name,

which is just a little bit limp-wristed, in my view.

Testarossa.

Yeah, but it's, you know, it's a different conversation

at Testarossa, isn't it?

But wouldn't it be wonderful?

And I suppose it goes back to maybe we're old farts

or maybe the cars were better in the past and all that.

You know, maybe Porsche could become

a little bit less interesting, a little bit less boring,

because I do think we need to talk

about a little bit boring Porsche.

And I know Singer have already done it.

But of course, Singer is very, very, very blood expensive.

And if you could walk into a Porsche showroom in Swindon

and buy yourself a 930 Turbo,

could be quite an interesting,

I know that's a bit looking back

and automotive companies are engineers and a future focus.

But you know what, I thought the Bugatti thing

was just a bit of a fascinating bit of news.

Can I tell you a story loosely connected to this?

It's quite heartwarming.

And also, casts me in quite a good light.

So I'm here promoting Auto.

I'm on a hospitality stand at the Fat Ice Race.

And I've just had a delicious espresso.

But the bar's quite unwilling to give out bottles of water.

They'll do you an espresso, but not a water.

And this guy behind me is with his wife and his daughter,

little kid.

But I managed to get a bottle of water out of this guy,

the barman.

And as a waterway, this guy said to me,

oh, do you have to be famous to get a bottle of water?

And I was like, oh, OK.

And I said to him, do you know what?

No, you don't.

And you should have a bottle of water.

So I went back to the bar and I got a bottle of water

and I handed it over to this really nice chap.

And we had a chat.

And it happened to be Jan Philip Schmidt,

who was the Bugatti designer that designed that baron.

So we had a lovely chat.

And on social, I posted a picture of myself for the 917.

And he replied, thank you for the bottle of water.

So there you go.

There are lovely people working in car companies.

That's really good.

One of the most automotive news that I spotted this week,

I think it was this week, was that the head designer of Audi,

not one of my favorite car brands,

has, like many other people said,

these big screens are a mistake inside cars.

And I think we will view 2022 to 2026 as the screen era.

And I think there might even be a lovely reaction to it,

where I can see dials becoming something that people work on,

that they go to watch manufacturers

and they make beautiful dials as a reaction to all this shit

that we've put up with for the last few years.

I think we might luck out or luck in, sorry,

on the back of the screen era

and end up with people going nuts about dials.

And I could see Mercedes launching a car

with a thousand buttons on the dashboard,

like one of those AMGs from the 1990s.

So maybe life's thought about circles, isn't it?

And you go full circle.

It could be rather lovely.

I think that...

I was going to say, first time I saw a very big screen in a car,

it was a Tesla, all over the place, Tesla.

The button thing is moving.

The button thing is interesting, isn't it?

It's, there must be somebody sat there in the design thinking,

it's my moment.

Actually, no one's really given much fuss about

what the buttons look like and how they feel,

because it's all gone to the screens and the dials are electronic.

My hope is that somebody listening to this

in one of those design departments thinking,

right, the texture, the tactility, the weight of the button,

how it moves, when in the travel you feel the click,

when you know it's done, the button thing is supposed to be doing.

All of that stuff, that would make...

You can feel and see all that stuff with a watchmaker.

You kind of just got to take it on trust

that it's in there, that's what you've paid for.

The button, you can feel all of it.

I think a couple of...

What I'm loving about this podcast this week is that

the three of us are on Radio 4, but Chris Cooper's on Radio 4 Extra.

You know, when you go to Radio 4 Extra and they play like a Sherlock Holmes

from the 70s, it just sounds like, it just sounds hilarious.

I'm here to help.

So, I'm going to move on to a subject.

This is not a dire child from me, but it's a very interesting week around

content and the nature of ownership.

So, yesterday I woke up to some messages about the fact that

there was a car dealer in Belgium that was...

He didn't like the fact that someone had used

the footage of a white Veyron film I did last summer

in a film about that.

It was Mark McCann, who's a very, very successful YouTuber now.

And I have to say, I looked at it and I thought,

yeah, he's used a bit of my film there.

I was the one that had to fly to Utrecht to get the permission to drive the car

and I spent thousands filming it and he's just used it.

But he did credit me in the film.

It said my name on the side and the film's seven months old.

It's not going to do many more views.

So, why not?

I don't have a problem with that.

The fact that he credited me is really important, I think,

because it showed that he was respecting the fact that I'd done that.

I mean, that certainly someone sent me some footage of Matt Armstrong

that had basically used a load of my 296 film and there was no credit there.

But I'm not going to tangle with the bloke that gets 11 billion views on YouTube every week.

I'll leave him to it.

But yeah, it would be quite nice if we just put in the corner my name

just to acknowledge the fact that I'm not a robot, but such is life.

And then I saw something, I was asking around on our internet group,

our WhatsApp group, about something called Carfolio.

Now, this is interesting for me because this young chat,

I don't know what his name is.

He used the load on my footage about a year and a bit ago.

And I called him out because he was in quite a similar space.

I think it was when we were doing the previous business.

I thought he's in slightly similar space to me, this bloke.

And he just used the load of footage.

And when I called him out, he said, well, I'll take it down.

Yeah, he probably should.

And it was quite recent footage.

And yeah, we did it again at the end of last year.

And I sent him a note saying, I don't think this is on, actually.

I think you just, you know, you're getting views based on using my footage.

If it was incidental, but it can prove that because your footage looks good,

because you're using my clips, then you shouldn't do that.

Anyhow, poor souls just had his Instagram page pulled by Instagram.

And I have to say for once, tough shit.

If you nick people's stuff, then you're going to get found out, aren't you?

It's just theft.

So he was creating content by clipping stuff from yours and putting it out.

Yeah.

So what he'd do is he'd furnish his, he'd stand there and talk to the camera about

whatever his business was, investment cars or something.

Investment cars.

It's autofolio, by the way, Chris.

Autofolio.

Autofolio, that's kind of the name, right?

Yeah.

So, but it's just, you know, if I went to his house,

opened his garage door and just took his spanners and walked out again.

I think he'd be quite pissed off, but that's kind of what he's done for me.

So, I think you should do that.

But I just think I've got a bit of karma, really.

They've gone about it a different way.

By the way, I wouldn't waste my time talking to Instagram about it all,

but I think he's going to try and get his channel back.

Maybe if he does, he'll start stealing stuff and he'll make his own content.

But I do know that if he'd used his own clips, they'd have been shite.

So no one would have watched it.

So there we go.

I think it's very interesting how the world of content is working.

Because it is, it's definitely changing.

So let's move on to our two car garage for this week.

No one's going to beat mine on this.

Oh, apart from me.

Well, I can't say that, Neil.

Okay.

50 something bad and 21-year-old son at university.

Share a love of cars.

You've already got me in.

It's a heartwarming story.

One day, you need to get the 15 miles to the train station

and provide son with enough credit with pals at the gym when home.

One toy for North Devon Sunset Runs, weekends on Welsh B roads,

and Le Mans Pilgrimage Budget, 45K, leaving 5K insurance and running costs.

I'm going first, because I always say I never go first.

And people comment and say Chris Harris always goes first.

I don't.

I'll get someone to run the stats of every podcast.

I average, I reckon, 3.5 on the order.

Here we go.

Only for you to do that stat.

What I like about this is that, frankly, the roles of these two cars need to be mixed up.

Because they're not quite distinct enough.

That's the trick here.

We don't have two totally distinct cars.

So I'm going to mix these up.

First one is B7 RS4 of Anne.

Dark blue, clear glass, bad of being.

Get it decarboned.

Don't go too crazy with any engine tuning.

Maybe fit a mil-tech.

But other than that, you've got one of the great cars that really,

just a fabulous estate car.

Looks brilliant.

And that is, that's a great.

Is it dark blue or is it black?

I think it might be black.

Very good.

Is that the daily?

Well, I don't know really.

I am merging, emerging genders here.

You know, we are, we're in a sticky place.

Because I think you could do both with that car.

That's a daily that you could go to La Monning.

Now, my other car is obviously a Renault 5 Turbo.

Because then you've got, you can go, that can be daily.

Because that'll probably do 30 to the gallon with the range.

And you could also go to La Monning.

And I've spent 40, I've spent 46 grand on paper.

But who wouldn't want to own those two cars?

And Neil Clippard is suddenly not looking quite so confident in his choice.

I am.

Is he?

Yeah.

Come on then.

Let's see the size, let me see the size of your dong.

Come on, let's go.

Okay.

Well, I'm going to the second car first, which is the Sunset Drives in Devon.

But I also think it's, as I've said many times, probably the world's best ever car.

But I've gone, I've gone a bit Chris Harris.

I've gone a nudge to Chris Harris.

I've gone, I've, I've gone a later Boxster.

And I found one manual, very important really.

The 981.

I've gone a bit like this because I'm, I'm actually talking into my phone.

So, oh shit, it's disappeared.

The, the 981 in silver, one of the prettiest ever cars, it's a Crera GT but better.

And it's 29,000 pounds.

And who cares if it's got 58,000 miles on it.

It's never going to break down.

It's silver, same colors, the first ever Porsche, Porsche number one.

And that car, you have so much joy in that it will be unbelievable.

And then I'm moving to the car, which is the daily strobe the sun can use.

I think that was the thing.

I can't quite remember the story.

But I've got two sons, both of which have recently ish past their driving test

and are also surrounded by all of their friends and their peers.

So I've watched the debate and also the discussions I've had with my sons about

what is an acceptable first car, second car, third car.

And what elements in their peer group are vital.

And I'll just talk about that for 10 seconds.

German, wherever we like it or not about the rise of the Chinese or the rise of Tesla or

it's all, German gets a gold star.

If you're Audi BMW or Mercedes and you're one of the lads, you've already got,

you're already ahead.

So I'm going German.

And of course, if you're going Mercedes, German or Audi,

the only right choice in there, sorry, or is BMW.

BMW is the one because you get another gold star.

If you're an 18, 19 year old boy with a BMW, then convertible.

Convertible with hardtop, the fact that you can be outside your mate's house, streaming,

Drake, but you are showing them how the hardtop goes up and down

is another really massive.

You're definitely going to get the hottest chick in the pub

if you've got a BMW with a hardtop that goes up and down.

And this thing, I don't know what it is.

It's a four series, but the idiots should have called it the three series.

It's only got three doors.

And why they called the four door the three and the four, the three, the four, they messed that up.

But this one is another meeting I need with BMW to explain to them what they got wrong.

This one, I think it's only about, I can't remember the price.

It's like 20 grand for a four series German convertible with DAB and streaming,

because that's critical.

19 year old boys don't actually give a shit really about the car

as long as it looks cool to your mates and you can play music.

OK, I love it.

It's really good.

By the way, all these cars are on car and classic and we'll be on there once we've chosen them.

They are on car and classics.

I will send the links.

I had a look at my search time on car and classic over the last week.

I have to say it's not a number I'm willing to share with anyone,

but it is absolutely, some will call it horrific.

I call it brilliant.

I also look at my search history of what cars I've been looking at.

And you know, when you start off somewhere and you go down the proper doom hole,

I started off looking for a Rover Safran by turbo,

which is the left hand drive M5 rival, which never came to the UK.

So they made a twin turbo Safran in the early 90s to rival the E34 M5.

It then goes off into this weird whatever.

And then I searched pretty much every Fassel Vega available in the world on car and classic.

That's where I ended up.

I woke up thinking I'm going to buy a Fassel Vega.

That's how it was amazing, isn't it?

Where your head goes.

It's a brilliant wormhole.

Okay, let's go to Manish.

So I viewed this from the point of view of my son who's 19

and is really no matter what I seem to do, not massively into cars.

So my plan is the car that I take him to the train station in or share with him

has got to be a car that I wanted when I was his age

and that I can wax lyrical about that I thought was utterly cool.

And it was this, it was this.

I found a 1983 Ford Fiesta XR2.

I mean, look at, just look at the color of that car.

It's a Mark I XR2.

It is, it's a Mark I XR2.

Look at those stripes.

It's got the fog lamps.

It's just the whole thing is completely beautiful.

And it's an auction cart.

It's a bit leggy, but I'd love to drive him in that.

I'd love to see him drive that because that's just me.

I got this wrong before.

That one does have the Kent engine, doesn't it?

Exactly.

Yeah.

It's a beautiful car.

And I just, what a great car.

And then the second car, I wanted something that,

I wanted something that was a bit stylish actually that I could go to them on.

As you all know, I really like MX-5s.

I think they're great.

But I found a 2021 MX-5 Mark II Platinum Edition Jasper Conran.

So they were all silver.

It's a manual.

Look at this interior.

They all had this beautiful red leather interior that you,

I mean, just look at that.

They pulled it very still for us.

Oh yeah.

Didn't know about that.

So I am going to go to Le Mans, go to these Devon drives and my silver

Mark II Jasper Conran Platinum Edition.

And by the way, this car's 48,000 miles has been garaged all the way through.

So I speed that.

I'm Chris Cooper.

Well, as ever, I have done this properly because I have selected two wonderful cars from the auctions.

Mine were in the auctions.

Well, they were very good.

And they're coming up.

Mine were.

They were.

I like this one.

This was from Rich Carr.

Great name that.

Might even be his real name.

Rich Carr.

Thank you very much, Rich.

I like this because it was kind of a couple of years ago, this was me and my boys.

I think young lads do care about more than just what they look like.

I think they care about what it's like to drive and what they feel like and so forth.

After that point, I've lost all reason because none of the cars in here,

a 19-year-old, 21-year-old is going to be able to ensure.

But I think it's all about Porsche because I think.

You've done this properly.

I think car plastic is about Porsche more and more.

And I found two fantastic Porsches.

So I think the sort of the fun car, the one you drive to Le Mans, I found a 997 Gen 1

Carrera 4S Cam.

Just fantastic.

No.

It's got all the work done.

And that one, that auction starts, that ends on the ninth.

So sometime next week after this comes out.

And then the other one, I have to say, I love this.

In fact, I'm really tempted to go for it myself.

And this auction, this one starts on the 11th of February.

It is a Cayenne Turbo S, clear glass.

That sort of browny, is that lava gray?

Slightly bronzy gray.

2008, Cayenne Turbo S.

It's got a de-catch.

It's got 600 million horsepower.

I think both of those are on car and classic.

Auctions coming up like a winner.

It's a very strange world we live in.

We can watch Neil Clifford getting changed.

I'm going to get so amazing.

You really are looking out here, a little fashion show.

Chris Cooper is sitting in his office.

It's very strange.

Let's move on to a bit of music before we leave.

Manage, enlighten us.

Come on, give us something that makes us feel clever.

Okay, well, going down that wormhole of which car would you like your son to drive?

I went down the wormhole of music I listened to in my teens.

And one really stood out.

I think it was the ultimate one hit wonder,

but it was such a good song.

And it was always in the nightclubs.

And it was called Woodbees by a band called Scritti-Politi.

Scritti-Politi's Woodbees.

That was such a good song.

He was more than a one hit wonder.

He was.

What did they do?

Did they did Scritti-Politi ever do another song?

Yep, they did.

So they, wow.

Yeah.

Can't remember.

Scritti-Politi Woodbees.

Chris Cooper.

We started this podcast today talking about springers in the air.

And they don't do it anymore, but you can go and find it.

Years ago on radio four in the morning,

right, right in, when we're all out and about,

five o'clock in the morning when radio four started,

they would play something called the rivelle,

which was a series of beautiful,

orchestral sort of get up and go.

The day is here, spring is here.

That always, I used to go sailing a lot

when I was really, really younger.

And you get out of the boat, go to a regatta,

and you'd be on the water at half past four in the morning,

do the round the island race in the UK.

And we'd all listen to that.

I think for a car person to get out in the spring,

because spring is in the air,

download the radio four rivelle and play that

as you leave home and you go to your little cup of tea

or to go and get your breakfast, or whatever it is,

radio four rivelle.

Park it, no kefford.

Sorry, I've got to get to a meeting.

Oh, what did I choose?

I can't remember.

Oh, free falling Tom Petty.

Yeah, there you go.

You know what, if you're feeling miserable,

getting your bloody convertible,

take the hard top off, bollocks to the salt,

and go and play that and it'll cheer you up.

It's amazing.

I think, this is one of these ones,

when I was 21, I wouldn't have chosen this,

even though I liked the song,

because I probably would be scared and hardly perceived,

but Eurasia, a little respect, is a superb pop song.

That's a great song.

I mean, it is crafted with genius, very uplifting,

a great one to shout at your windscreen too.

I know it's got to get going.

I've got one last message to say, it's important,

so just give me one minute to say this and we can go.

They've announced the new hosts of the Grand Tour.

They are James Engelman, Thomas Holland,

so the throttle house guys,

and Francis Bourgeois,

who's someone I'm making a show with at the moment.

I just want to say,

to everyone out there that says it's not the three amigos,

as one of the few people on this planet

that's tried to follow them in an iteration of Top Gear,

please give them a chance.

Please treat their content with respect

and judge it on merit.

Don't just whinge about the fact.

It's not Jeremy James and Richard,

because we know Jeremy James and Richard are brilliant,

but that following them is the toughest thing I ever did.

Definitely broke me.

I'm not the same person I was,

but I'm back and fighting now,

but I don't want those three to go through the shit I went through.

I want them to be treated with respect

and I want them to have a good time

and I want us to celebrate what they do.

So let's watch the Grand Tour with these new hosts

and celebrate the fact that there's still a car program out there

that's going to be global, have money spent on it.

That's my message.

Have a lovely weekend.

I'm going to the rugby tomorrow,

so come on England and Twickenham.

Nelcliffe will be flying somewhere.

Chris Coop will be somewhere.

We'll see you next week.

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