Stories from F.A.T. ICE 2026!

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All right folks on this episode of the podcast

Zach and I went up to big-sky Montana for the fat ice race and we have quite the recap

I brought the Myers-Manks ran it around the track. We had a good time

We saw some people we saw some crazy cars and we give our thoughts on the first ever

Montana fat ice race plus the trailer drama never ends and

It seems that the moda Miami show turned into a bit of a lake. It's the smoking tire podcast. Let's go

Hi, everybody. Good motherfucking Monday morning. It is I have

18 hours in Los Angeles ending at about 2 p.m. Today

in between ice race and going to

Spain lol for the Aston Valhalla

I'll be fun at the oh my gosh my glasses are so dirty at the circuit oh Navarra

Which is apparently a very good racetrack that I have never been to

NAV a r.r.a. Looks nice. It actually looks a bit coda ish

from above

But so only a couple Americans get to go go do this one and there's not going to be

An American press car, so my only chance is to quickie you turn

Don't even put the suitcase away

unpack repack off to Spain we go, but

the things we do

Sacrifices

Not a sacrifice at all volunteered for this just means a very busy 18 hours in in between

I was here at five paying my bills paying my taxes. That's the other that's it

That's just the other side of it go get here at five pay your fucking taxes happens

but a lot of caffeine not panic attack levels caffeine, but

the we had we had collectively a

Pretty bad coffee week in Montana the only thing bad about ice race week

Which are we're gonna talk a lot about in this show is that there was not generally not great coffee

Well, the coffee shop in town was fine the coffee shop in town was fine

But like and they were very nice and we gave our extra passes to them actually for Saturday, but um

Lot of Airbnb shitty coffee grocery store shitty coffee

You never want to be the first renter of an Airbnb ever

And I'm pretty sure we were based on the number of unopened packages near the door that we're probably had the things that we were like

How come we don't have enough cups?

Probably in that pack, but we can't open their mail because that's a federal like a felony, right?

Yeah, so, you know, we probably should message the owner of the house

I'm like, hey, is this all the shit that we feel like this house should probably have

Actually that that house that we rented which was totally fine for our needs was the most

It was like the most food crazy like

The most this is for Airbnb house ever like the our bedroom had fake beams in it

That on one side of the room didn't go all the way to the wall really

They were caught like forages short of like a plastic beam. Yeah, like fake over like to make it look like wood industrial

Oh, the wood. Oh my god. Yeah to make it look like it was like a wood truss in the ceiling

But it was like I mean, obviously it would be fake even if it did go up

But if this is like a steel construction house. Yeah, but like

He's trying to look like a cabin. Yeah, and it was like five bedrooms two bathrooms

Yeah, that's some Airbnb right there and missing some crucial elements

But it was a means to get to the motherfucking ice race and we did it like frat party style with like eight people in a house

This shit was fucking dope this was a this was a pretty pretty cool event. I mean Chris Harris

Described, you know, very he was there for five minutes and he was like this isn't a race

This is a party and there happens to be a hundred percent some

Vaguely motorsport adjacent thing happening in the background now does he say that's true of the one that happens over in

Switzerland, where's it Switzerland? Oh in Austria

He said that one is a little bit more racy

But only because they've been doing it for longer. It's like it's it's like a it's like a heritage sport over there

whereas

clearly, I mean

They were they were racing on a you know, if you go to a real ice race where they're like like an actual rally car

like there aren't

There's not like champagne, you know fancy food and it's not like a

Luxury experience to watch an actual ice race. You're just freezing your ass off on a frozen lake sure, you know, this is

This is a spectator

focused thing

No, like the fucking timing wasn't even like working half the time

It's a praise ski. Yeah. Yes, but with cars as entertainment effectively

You know, so everyone's doing the same thing they do it like the bottom of the hill at 4 p.m

But there's also this little entertainment pond where cars are sliding around some of them

You know hitting walls some of them very expensive some of them going pretty fast

It's a show like it's it's a show and it's reflected in the fact the fact that it's a show is reflected in the fact that like

If like a driver's ticket like to enter your car

Is it comes with a VIP ticket?

But it's about a seventh the cost of just buying a VIP ticket

So like they understand the value of if you're showing up with a car like you are the entertainment

Like we're gonna compensate you in that in that other way

But like not that's not to say that people weren't trying to like get a good time or you know

Proud to get a trophy or whatever like Zwart was absolutely try a number of people were trying to win

Yeah, and then a number of there are people that had clearly done rally training rally driving like at a high-ish level

Yeah, and then there were people that like knew how to drive

Like the kind of middle group and then there were people that seemed like the only time they ever touched snow in their car

Is it's a suburban maybe driven by some like very timid very tepid people that were just and look some of them

We're driving millions of dollars around. Yeah, and they don't want to hit the wall if they're out there

Yeah, no, it's there's a there was a wide gap between and it's just it's such like an

Instagrammable thing like a lot of the people that were going really slow like in freeze frame with like the right shot like you

Catch the right opposite lock that happens for like two seconds, you know, and it like wow that's that looks like super heroic

Whereas if you saw the video, it's like, you know, whereas other people are

Extremely sendy

You know the homie was driving

I guess it was that guy's super car runs like someone else that works for him. There was like mobbing that

Storato, oh, that was wrong. There's a turbo Lamborghini

Storato and the guy was absolutely fucking sending it a big angle entry

Yeah, and actually whoever drove the Pagani on the first day, which it might have been the same dude was was sending it

Pretty hard in that car. I was that was impressive. That was just a crazy thing to see

Yeah, like I remember I was walking up to you know, just the start line to film stuff in front of back

I could it peeked out like it's a very distinctive around on the Pagani and I was like said a fucking Pagani

Yeah, like good respect. Yeah

And the spread of cars it wasn't you know, it wasn't all super exotic stuff

I mean, there was like Amelia went out with her Nissan Pulsar, which was pretty cool

I cool

There's like in the background of this shot like there's Beatles, you know beatle with the antlers

I mean, so like yeah, there's legends the legends cars the gram block like those cars are like 25 grand

Like so if it was it could be very interesting and cheap or it could be very exotic or it could be like in this photo

Which there's photos on my Instagram and I have a lot more photos

Full-on rally cars, you know, there was a whole whole section of full-on rally cars

You have to try right?

It's like yeah, so I think they do a great job of curating a diverse array

Yeah, of you know both things in terms of cost horsepower and the intent of the vehicle and that makes it a much more interesting show

I thought it would just be like, I don't know just a bunch of rally cars and a bunch of Porsches up right there

There were some notable. I I mean, it's probably because you know Ferdy, but obviously there were more Porsches than really anything else

Definitely there were also did you notice there were no Mercedes?

Not a one good not a one Mercedes. I saw I saw Dieter Dieter Heinz

I've seen that kind of long time lovely man, and he has a gullwing and he's like I haven't run

I haven't driven my gullwing in like three years. It's been mothballed. He's like I think I'm gonna like get it going and put some spikes on

He's like he was annoyed that there was no Mercedes representation there. Yeah

Not like annoyed annoyed, but he's like there needs to be yeah, here's Ryan

Ryan Turk in his Celica

Rally car GT4 rally car. I think it was cooking pretty quick

I mean one of him and two it's also like it's a rally car with all we'll drive in on pretty decent spikes not huge spikes

Yeah, Forsberg, you know Chris Forsberg was a fabulous driver

Obviously, so this is not in question had a rear-wheel drive Nissan Patrol with like

900 horsepower that he was really struggling to drive like like it just

It seemed difficult

This is this is a guy who's won the formula drift championship like multiple times like talent not in question

Yeah, it seems the first day. It was basically an ice rink

It was like everything was really frozen. They only ran it for the first half of the day

It was so slippery looking and then the second day it like warmed and got chopped up by spikes

So by the afternoon it was effectively like slush. Yeah, so there's more grip

I I ran at about 1145 both days the first day

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Code tire and now back to the show the first day

It was really hard to drive like i the video of me driving

I didn't even post the video on instagram because like it looks so slow

I had so little front end grip and if I tapped the brakes, I would just like slide. I was like, oh, shit

this is and the Manx is like

I had absolutely no idea how this thing would drive on a loose surface like we had little spikes on it

uh, and you know winter tires

um

But uh, but on ice it was like it was it was pushy. Let's just say it was it was pushy

Your weight balance must be 10 front 90 rear. It's not great. And so I uh

I got around but it wasn't it certainly wasn't anything uh to to to share on socials

The second day, I mean if you watch the video from zack from the metaglass is like it's better

Like the car is clearly like responding to inputs like we're getting some understeer

But also like a good amount of oversteer

I also big when it was a little more it had that couple inches of slush on top of the ice

um

I could make use of the the top end of the power band. So I realized actually

But by the way this as a driver it's a commitment because

I you know your car goes all the way up there

You got to put the special tires on and you got to do all this bullshit

And ultimately like if you're in like the finals or something you might get like six runs

But everyone else gets between one and two runs. So it's like it's a long way to go for

Four minutes of driving each run is what two laps each run is uh, yeah, yeah

Half an out lap and then two flyers and and then in yeah, so it's not much driving

So if you are not familiar with your car on a loose surface and and these the walls

As they warned us and as we saw unfortunately a few quite a few times. They are not soft. They are hard

They're shredder fucking hard. They're like

Like hitting the cliffs on angeles crest hard

You know when I went to finland the soft the snow banks were soft. I put a fucking caiman

GT4 rs into a snow bank at 60 miles an hour and it was like

Yeah, and then they just tow you out and that was it and the car is totally fine

People tapped the wall at five miles an hour in this thing and it was crunching shit. Yeah

It was it was ice the walls were ice. Yeah, it was as hard as concrete for sure. So I had a you know open real car

I was like, uh, you know, but I think in some ways that actually helped, you know

Graham our friend he hit the wall in one of the legends cars

But because the wheels were outside the body he bent the wheel

But the wheel absorbed that shock whereas our friend Ali hit and the first thing that touched the wall was

You know his headlight the corner of the corner. Yeah. So, you know, look, I I didn't want to fucking hit the wall

I went 10 minutes. I watched Ali go out and unfortunately he hit the wall

And and then I was like, well now I have to go well

Don't hit the fucking wall. That's all the first run was just don't hit the fucking wall

And I didn't but it was like I was in second gear low rpm getting a lot of understeer

and and uh, it just

Wasn't great and I was like and then the next time Hannah came out with me

And I saw that it was slushier and people were coming back from their runs me like, oh, this is now. This is way better

So I went all right, so we realized first gear

Slam the rev limiter, you know top of the power band and actually the car would rotate

Kind of nicely

But also it would engine brake better when you lift

So if you were just if you just lift from red line you get enough

Rear brake that it's almost like a trail brake. So I could just hover my left foot on the brake

But really just modulate a bunch of the top of the power band in first gear

So most of the time that was enough engine braking to get the car transferred enough to rotate

So it was actually a lot less braking than I thought

um

So that was more I you know if you got if you got five six if you're a fabulous driver

You can bang this out in one run if you're not or you're unfamiliar if you're unfamiliar with your car or whatever

Really intimidating the first time around

And then the second time around you go, that's the shit my kingdom for a third

But I didn't get one

So the the way how do I do that next year because I ran in the exhibition class. You don't get multiple runs

The way to get multiple runs is to race. We have to enter something in the race

That's the only way to do it

You got to figure out what you have that would fit in the classes that they have or what we can get in between

In between now and then you know, yeah, true

What we can get who can

I've already

sort of

I'm already kind of working Bentley a little bit to drive that

Continuation 1929 blower car mike who is the Bentley mike rolls. We should get him on the show

He's the Bentley historic sky. He's in charge of all their like really old cars

He's a really good driver in the old cars. He's always driving at good wood and stuff

Did he drive the old ones out here? Yeah, he was right. He was the guy in the white suit the very handsome man

A fantastic job. Yeah. So I was like, I want to drive that next year and they were kind of like, well

You don't know how to drive. I will come to England

And spend a couple days. It's somewhere safe and I will learn to drive it

Yeah, racetrack and airfield like whatever the fuck you got streets. Who cares?

I will I'll come and I'll practice and then and then I come drive it here and they're like, okay

That sounds fine. So we have to go to England

And Richard was all

Richard tot Hill was all hey while you're over just come by. Yeah, they have some things happening lots of things Richard tot Hill

That's a man who is awesome. Yeah

him

Him chris harris and maz were like

Not maz maz was maz was like covering his fucking face on the the bus ride home from the concert

Chris and Richard were like giving each other so much shit at a full volume and right in a very crowded shuttle full of like

Yellowstone club members. It was like

Yeah, but those guys those members were if they knew who they were then they were like, this is amazing

Yeah, yeah, yeah

Harris is a championship chip. The two young people on the bus who knew who they were for like dying

Everyone else was like, yeah, because chris and Richard were friends for a long long time. Yeah, they've done a lot of stuff together

and

It was so funny

but uh just like

as a as a social experience like

Like I think the it was a great place to hang out. It was a great place to see friends. It was a great place to like

You know once you were done with your session, you know day drink beers in a in a snowy but sunny

Fucking environment while people are doing fun cool things in fun cool cars

And I was impressed and excited to see the the not just the variety of metal and actually carbon fiber that was out there

but like

Some of the cost of it and people really going for it and trying to slide full corners

You know

It was the antithesis of the people that bubble wrap something exotic

Just so that they can sell it in 10 years or two years or whatever

Yeah, like, you know our friend kevin marshals out there in the uh the chimera

Oh, yeah, he tapped the wall tapped the wall that he and you know, he just received this thing

That car I finally got up close with it

The interior is perfection. We were driving one in July

Have you seen the interior of those? Yeah, you like I mean if you like knobs, I don't know if I fit

It's all knobs. I might have to take my shoes. He's like six

I think you haven't like six four. Oh, yeah. Okay, cool. So you'll be all right. All right. Good. Um, yeah

Just you know the enzo that tapped the wall the first day. Yeah, and it went out when it pulled out of the start line

I was like, oh, look at this kind of careful careful chris out here and uh,

I don't think they have the right tires on that car. They didn't because I have I have footage

I haven't put it up yet, but then on day two

Yeah, I see these I see smoke coming out from between these two men and I walk up and it's I know it sounds weird like

Okay, quintin

No, there's uh

And one guy is hand siping the enzo tires

And the other guy is drilling spikes into them and every time they touch the blade to the tire

Smoke came out like, you know, you want a break and uh, I was like, oh, dude

They're hand cutting every tire for this enzo and so this person hit the wall and went out the second day

Yeah, it's pretty cool with better tires. Yeah, with better tires somebody who's

Somebody came up to me and was like, do you have any spikes? I was like, we're already here. We like

I've solved this a weeks ago

But someone at him like we we uh put the spikes in all these cars the night before and he had a bucket of them

Like I was like they were a little

Unclear about what type of spikes you could and could not use like they really didn't specify

I heard multiple times like

From different people like use whatever you want and I heard others like absolutely not you'll destroy the ice. I was like

Philip was like, I'm just gonna do what we're doing to our cars like fine. I don't know. I'm okay

And so I think we ended up with three millimeter

Spikes which are they're not

They're bigger than studs, but they're the smallest quote spike, okay

Yours are bigger than the ones on on ollie's car

No, they're about the same about the same about the same okay as this the smaller set that he yeah

So yeah, what you guys had and what we were installing was like what you would get on a road legal studded tire

Yeah, and so you know the the protrusion from the rubber is like a millimeter or something like that

But then when the rubber compresses you get a little more. Yeah, but then my car's 1500 pounds. Yeah, you know, so

I it

And I'm not sure it didn't seem it didn't seem to do as much as it should when the track was really icy

And then it didn't really matter so much because they were they were studded winter tires

So it didn't really matter that much once the track was slushy. Right. I was just using the regular tread. So like

They run narrower tires on your cars then you don't really do

narrower

Rears that's helpful. Yeah, we ran the same width as the the front on the rears. Yeah. Yeah, so

I mean in this in the slush

There was actually you could get the car rotated and slid, you know a decent amount and if I had a big

Lake to like huck it in at 60 miles an hour like you probably could but

I was you know, my wife's in the car. You don't want to hit the wall in front of fucking 2000

No, you're effectively learning to drift in front of a crowd. Yeah, I mean that's very difficult

Did it feel like a mini 9 11? Yeah, kind of okay, but it was uh

I feel 9 11's like the the the the rear the front end would be pointier

Like you could you could get the front end set in a 9 11 a little better

This you this it would like push push push catch. I bet your weight balance is really wild

It probably is when you put that car on corner scale and see what it is. I expected it to be

Pretty terrible 30 70 and if you watch the video like it's not terrible

Like did you actually watch this video before you sent it to me or did you just send it? No?

It's not terrible like it's it's tricky and also like

I'm on the straightaways and stuff. I'm sort of trying to mongey it because just for fun

There's why fucking it does not work here

Well, yeah, the if you that's coming out of the start gate if you

Like

Normally you would be on already in a corner at that point

So it's it the car the car is like set up differently there

So anyway a lot of largely you could see you were adding angle, but it's going straight

So here it's like wait wait wait and there's the rotation finally

So it's like a while after and it's a while after you actually add the input

It's like steer and then wait wait and with rally driving it's lift turn break

That's how you set a loose surface car. So it's lift and then just the rear

You know the engine braking catches the weight a little bit turn

Once it sets and even once you turn the wheel

It's like a half a second later that the front end actually goes. Yeah

And what I noticed speaking of that is when I was looking at all the footage on the plane is

The reason ali crashed

Was really it was really interesting

I was looking through the shots and so ali had put these huge spikes on the back of his car

And he had normal studded ones on the front

Which okay acceleration grip sure, but then he was getting a lot of understeer because of this imbalance

And I watched a clip from and uh, he's accelerating and the car is like sliding slightly like a little bit of angle

And then as soon as he lifts the car totally straightens out and starts heading

Poor to wall. Oh, it's like because the back with you know with the diff in it

It just ripped and just said no we're going this way. So that's like if you have a different like a

A drifty if you have a tight diff that on d-cell tightens up a lot

It'll send your car straight. Yeah, and it was the most the clearest example of how a differential setup can do that. Yeah

totally

That's very interesting

I I found that that engine braking with whatever tires I did have

Produced a balanced effect that allowed me to turn the car better

Uh better better than when I was at lower rpm in second gear and trying to slow it down with the brakes because it's just the rears

So it's effectively trail braking

Uh, uh, excuse me. It's effectively left foot braking. Uh, not trail braking. So, um

Man, I wanted some more runs. I was so excited because I thought I was going to get two runs on saturday saturday

And I didn't it was I found out it was only going to be one when I got there

Oh

Wait, oh really? Yeah, I thought there were morning and afternoon runs on saturday, but it was just morning

Oh for me for you for me for the exhibition class

Yeah, because they had to run more because they had to run other exhibition class cars and do like parade laps and stuff

but like

I thought like the the tickets are expensive like the ga's were I don't know $300 or something but I

I do feel that you got a quality product for that $300 ticket. I really do

and the vip was like three thousand which is super expensive

but

I think the hospitality food

service

beverage

and

entertainment and scenery

Was better value per dollar than quail

Oh, uh, like that's a similar quail similar

Well, I mean quail you get like the four different or five different regional restaurant thing

You do but I don't think any of them were as of the quality of the food that we actually got

Oh, okay

I only ate one of the things at the quail because the food was really really good at this thing. The food is really good. Yeah

And I thought the service and like the the cleanup crews and like all that shit was like extremely on point

And the setting like go back to that picture of that picture of Hannah and I I think this was the first picture in there

This was shout out to jeff's wart

I was like jeff I never asked jeff's wart for anything but driving advice and to pay his wccs bill on time

Neither of which is ever a problem, but um

I go jeff I never ask you for anything. I need a favor. I need a photographer come take a picture of me and Hannah

But like this this track being framed by this mountain for you just amazing

It was it was really well chosen and actually the track

Um is a permanent installation

Like that won't just melt and disappear like there's substrate under that like

They are not going to because it's in the middle of a golf course

But like they could run a rally school if they wanted to in the summer

Brian was like the golfers would fucking revolt if we did that

But uh, but all of the infrastructure they built there is like permanent

So it's going to be there for the next couple years. That's pretty cool

Like it's so photogenic and I will say that you know g a and vip get pretty much the same view of things like vip's like

You're if you do g a you're not getting fucked on which corners you can look at and stuff

Which is good. You get to see the cars doing all the same stuff. Yeah

You just you know, you don't get like the food and the cover and the hospitality and things

But and there's no restrictions in like the paddock area or anything like that

Like it's very speak in that way like you can walk into people's pit. You can get right up on their cars

It's kind of like good wood in that way

Yeah, and there was like even if it's g a like the they had like enough like food and beverage and coffee and bathroom

Options that it wasn't like ew. This is fucking. Yeah, it was it was straight. It was good media

And it's nice that it's I mean this would have to maybe evolve over the years

It was an intimate enough thing that you could you could walk to all the cars pits and like the track in

12 minutes. Yeah, so there's not a ton to see but I think there's enough stuff

Now maybe as it grows if they add

Other spectacles that's something that's something I think would be smart is if they added other types of entertainment, especially when

You know if they have to cut the driving short because of the track conditions because it's too warm or whatever

If they added other stuff, that would be rad, but ski slope hill climb

Yeah ski slope hill climb that I everyone I talked to I like the rivian guys. They were like they were like we're excited about this

I said have you seen the germany?

He helped ski slope hill climb. I said no, I was like bring your truck to that

and then I talked to harris about it and

Like everyone should go like scott. Oh, I'm like you have all the outies

No, put them together and bring all the people that are they know about ski slope hill

Okay, good they

And they have ski slopes. Yeah, like they are those are those are things. It's not there isn't a ski slope

At the ice racetrack, but there's one hundred feet away one pretty close by

You know so ski slope hill climb is crazy. Yeah, it's rad

It was uh, I just

It was a it was a good time. It was really really

Well done and then the spread of cars the people to talk to I met some some new friends are really

Really good folks across the spectrum

Really fun fans. I hung out with there were really interesting people

Um

And montana is awesome like it's a fucking gorgeous place to hang out for a few days. I mean it's really nice

Yeah, it is I would uh, I could live there for six months a year. It's pretty easy to get to from LA actually

I mean it's easier to get it's easier. It's as easy or easier to get to bozeman is that it's get to vail

Or any of the colorado or utah ski resorts

Direct from LA those are a bigger pain

Yeah, because you have to land in denver and then drive to denver. Yeah, unless you try to fly to steamboat which gets canceled a lot

Yeah, dude, this that was fucking nice. I like it. It's weird seeing all those montana tags and not cringing

Yeah, not getting mad about it. Yeah

So funny all the rich people up there though, they all have the same exact car

They all just drive a white silver or black suburban. That's it. That's all anybody drops

Like you go to like yellowstone club. It's a billionaire fucking central

And they all drive the same fucking car really only because it's you know, it's their ski house

And it's a utility vehicle and there's apparently just no dealers in bozeman outside of a ford and a chevy dealer

So they all just go to the same fucking dealer with the same car

But if you hang out at the valets like while I was waiting for my car all the valets are just constantly joking about how they're like

almost pulling the wrong car all the time just because everyone has

And like guests are always getting into the wrong cars because it's all like the same black suburban

Caked in grime from fucking steam before key fobs were invented like when I was a valet

You had to write down the license plate because of this stuff because now you can just walk around and hit the button

And you and you you can't get in the wrong car if you're trying to unlock it

No, the valets aren't getting in the wrong car the customers are all getting you said the valets are pulling the wrong car

Well, the the the valets have to you know, they're when they're looking clearly they have a fob

But when they're looking it's like a sea of black and silver suburbans

We have when you have like 19 guys in arcterics. Yeah, and you're like you had the white one or the silver one

Um, and they're not gonna have many I don't maybe they'll open a new dealership eventually

But right now the population of bozeman is like 60,000 people

So I don't know if that can support. Well, I met a car dealership

I met a guy who is not opening a dealership, but is opening a general

European car service center so that your chi-ans and your range rovers and shit can get sir

Which is extremely smart

They should just have that because there's a lot of those people already have those cars and we just send them out

And that's why they don't have them out there because if they break they go well, what am I gonna do with this thing?

I gotta go to salt lake city or something to get this car fucking fixed or boise or something

I don't know where the nearest like range rover dealer is to bozeman, but it ain't close

um

Let's what it was kind of did you see the photos from that moda miami thing though? There was like an enormous

Rainstorm that like flooded the oh, I did see that. I don't I it seemed seemed very inconvenient

I don't want to like but like it is a little crazy that like our ice race was like almost too warm to actually have it and then

The the the miami car show, you know in the right season gets like totally fucking monsoon

I would like to say and this may this may get me on it. Yeah, this may get me uninvited

Mota is weed in spanish from future ice races, but like

You know there was not enough snow

It was warm and everyone around us a lot of locals were saying that as well

So this isn't just zax lefty stuff, but i'm like no no the climate change is coming

But what the the top sponsor of this event is mobile one owned by exxon and i'm just looking at this going

The irony of this is just incredible. Sure. Um

There was enough. Yeah, there was enough snow to race on but people thought there might not be no, that's moda moda, dude

What this is moda

It was just picture a golf course covered in expensive cars with like huge huge lakes of water everywhere

Who's fucking here? Yeah

It was a career. Let's see what footage they used. Oh, it's not going to be on their officials

No way it's on their officials. They should tell the tell the story

Yeah, because I saw like a career gt going through a lake. Yeah, yeah, and that's what people were talking about. Yeah

Motorway, it was like it was very very. Yeah, there we go

I did I you know, I don't I hope these whoa these are all but like

It's just like those cars probably haven't seen rain in like 40 years

How many alligators do you think got to attend the car show?

Because we're looking at car. Oh my god. That oh my god

That is like a pre-war car with like water up to its

Middoors, but it's also looks like it's sunk at an angle

So the front of the car is much deeper in the water than the back. So that's not good. Yeah

Whoa

Was this on a golf course? Yeah

And and it just rained it just rained so much so fast overnight or something. I know during the during the morning too. Yeah

Wow, that is a very I mean, I don't I don't know if the those cars were like ruined

I mean this picture. Is this a singer target? Yes sitting in a lake with a conic sag

Like an f12 and some kind of 9 11

Turbo ask thing in the back here the water at least is only only up to the rim

Yeah, the tires are are submerged, but the lower part of the rim

Um, what's in the next uh, you know walk into that's not gonna be easy. Yeah. Yeah

conic sag

I do like that. I bet you some of those photographers got amazing shots

Yeah, I bet you know what it costs to get one of those flood fucking studio reflection shots

Yeah

9 18 just sitting in a mud puddle

There's opportunity for a few people to do the funniest thing ever there

But so if you're listening, this is a shot of the radar the weather radar at the time and uh, it's you know

Bright red over the venue. And if you know anything about weather radar red red means bad means way more rain

Yeah, oh, there's John tamir. Oh, there's John tamir's instagram

It's good that the uh, it's good that the cold things were warm and that the warm things were flooding. That's good

I think John's about to dump water out of his shoes in this picture. Oh, yeah

Geez. Oh, I didn't even tell the story of the fucking shoes. So I

I had a lot of luggage

I had my ski stuff because I was going skiing for a couple days

I had my camera stuff because I did the podcast with Wes and because we um

Were we're shooting filming with with the banks and then I had my clothes and I'll also my helmet

You know because you need that too. So it was like I had a bunch of shit for for one person to travel with

So the only thing that wouldn't fit in bag were my fucking driving shoes. I have my snow boots

Out my footwear. I always footwear for me is very important when I travel because my feet are big and my every

You know, my stuff is big, but you can't just take a bigger suitcase proportionally. So like

It's snow. So like I brought those boots those Russell moccasin boots that I love and I was like, uh,

That's just gonna be my shoes. Mm-hmm. And then but I was like, but I'm gonna be in the house a lot

And the floors are hard. So I'm gonna bring crocs home shoes. That was very smart

Yeah, and then they but my driving shoes because I can't drive them with the banks and snow boots

Hannah was supposed to bring and she forgot. So I ended up having to drive uh barefoot

Which like it was for five minutes like it was it was actually fine

But it was pretty

Fucking funny that I had to like do this silly shoe thing getting in the car

And I blew up Hannah's spot with the

The announcer came to talk to me on the grid and Hannah was in the car and I was like my wife forgot my shoes

It's I'm driving barefoot the announcer was like put the camera in there

Fucking people were dying. It was a good bit and it wasn't that it wasn't that cold

Like so you were fine if it had been five degrees

Yeah, that would have been a problem. Oh, yeah, and we got the heated seats. Oh, that's right heated seats. Did you use them?

Yes, definitely

I I had no temperature issues the whole well until I stepped in a very very big puddle while trying to get a shot

And like I submerged my trail shoes and I was like, I'm glad I brought two pairs of shoes because I'm not wearing these tomorrow

Yeah, but otherwise it was like a pretty toasty day. It was also bright and sunny

Yeah, great. So, you know alpine sun is like twice as warm as sea level sun

I had spf 100 on my head though and dude manks like

I I have stumbled into fucking gold with this company because like

Because of manks like they shipped the car. They studded the tires

They did the and and uh max shout out to max who is their radial technician from australia

He was babysitting the cars

There were four manks is up there three of them were radials and one had a Porsche motor

Which was the loudest one by the way, which was the loudest one and the only one

That required people fucking fiddling with I love elie

But the radials all started right and ran just perfectly fine and elie had like three guys fucking

Getting the fucking his old school ass Porsche motor going but

Phillip put fucking tank treads on one of the manks is which was hilarious

Uh, because of course he did kind of worked

It looked cool

On the ice it did not work at all because it it was uh the fronts were like snowmobile skis

And so, you know, they need they need that force back from snow to turn

So that thing had a little bit of understeer now and then but the tank tracks looked incredible

Yeah, I did and then they put the tires back on the front and drove it into town like that

But the treads on the back. Well, yeah, that's pretty wild

Wow, apparently if you keep it under 50, it's okay. Yeah, but faster than on tarmac. I bet it gets loud

Shady, it looks very cool. It's made for great photos. Oh, it's fabulous. Yeah

But like they had a whole support. So I all I had to do is like show up with my helmet and my jacket and drive

Yeah, they were like warming the car up for you. Yeah, I'm starting up. You're all parked together

Everyone loved watching the manks because you guys all went out at the same time

At least on day one as like a like a gaggle to race each other

Yeah, and everyone was just like look at these cute little things and like I had a funny shot where

On turn one like the big sweeper past, you know VIP in the start line

Everyone spun and then they wave the yellow flag

But you who have raced and know what yellow means you slowed down

But you passed all the cars that had spun and proceeded around the track. Oh, nice. Do you have a clip of that?

Yeah, somewhere. Oh, cool. Nice

Yeah, the first day I did thread the needle through a lot of spinny cars. I spun myself. You did I spun both days

Yeah, I spun in the in the video up here

Um, oh, yeah in the video from the metaglasses. I spun right like 200 yards before the finish line

I spun I was trying to fucking mongey it in front of the crowd because they were super stoked and uh

Nope, I well I

I tried as I swing it to the right and I have a fucking good good slide out of the corner

And then I try to mongey it back to the left

Before the chicane before the chicane not realizing that basically nobody had driven on that

So as soon as I kick left, it's just insta ice

And then

I'm sliding sliding sliding and then where I come to a stop

It looks like slush, but I look down and it's water and I go. Oh boy

And so I got like a little uh a little like almost stuck there, but I managed to like to get out of it. All right

It's on the next lap. Okay

Yeah, but actually it worked out because the spin allowed all the other manxes to catch up to me

And so we could sort of like have a good photo finishy group shot at the end like in ford versus ferrari

There's a funny moment. I was on day one. I was standing just you know next to some strangers as you guys are all going out there

and this uh

I'm looking at your car and I'm talking about it and this girl goes. Yeah, my boyfriend's driving that car and I go

which car

And she goes

That one I go the blue one or the green one and she's like, oh the green one

Okay, because I know the wife of the guy in the blue one

And she did and she kind of laughs. She's like, well, we're not gonna talk about that. Anyway, I was like

But um, I think I think it was uh Eli's girlfriend. Oh, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah wife. Wife. Sorry. No, it's okay

That that makes one of the two. Oh, no

She was the girlfriend of the guy driving Eli was riding passenger. Okay. Yeah, I think your spin is he's next lap

No, this is my this is a flyer. This is a flyer. This is my first flyer. Got it and uh, actually kind of nice

It was funny that some of the fastest cars of the day

I mean, they were the legends cars because of power to weight

But then it was anything four-wheel drive which included

Raptors and the giant bronco driven by loren healy like all these huge vehicles

That of course have four-wheel drive and they were able to hook up the most

So but there was also some like fabulous rear-wheel drive driving

I mean zort and lee keen were out there pat pat did his best in an impossible car. Absolutely

Pat was driving the 9 11, uh, like the r like the lamar

9 11

And it was just undriveable on that. He drove that and he drove one of bettems thousand horsepower things

Oh, here's my here. So monji right monji left

but oh

sheet of ice sheet of ice

And now it's just don't hit the wall and now my rear tires

I'm trying to move but i'm in water

And so now I loop it or I actually get some front-end traction don't hit the wall please and now

I'll have one of those guys come by and yeah point by there little point by cross the line for

It's not it's not definitely I saw him at the bar on Saturday night and and he's like yeah

My car was too low. I was like you had to come here to think to realize that like you are a smart racing engineer

But there were a couple cars out there that were pretty much like dragging floorboard on the on the ground

And uh, it was just so funny. He's like, I think I need more ground clearance like no fucking shit

I was worried that my car was you know because I have the lower ride

I was worried that my car might be too low, but it was not it was totally fine. Yeah, um

There was some fun like rexie was out there

Which people watch msa racing is like one of the top three teams in msa gt class and to see that thing

Is like as wide as it is long that is a super wide 9 11

But uh, it was just you know throwing rooster tails and doing slow drifts

And one of lee keen's customers. I think won his class. I think he was in the red keen safari

Big spikes. Yeah, I'm driving well. I met him. He was driving very like he was driving super clean

Yeah, like it didn't look showy, but it was actually like good for time

But he had big spikes. Yeah, and I saw I saw a couple

You know you couldn't because of the walls you couldn't see and they had a few flaggers

but

Amat the shape of the course is like a hair barrette with like a straight on one end a light bulb corner

And then a three a triple zigzag before a light bulb corner at the other end. It's like

It's like brass knuckles brass knuckles. Yeah brass knuckles or a hair barrette

Cock and balls ish adjacent. No hair hair barrette. I think is actually more like it. Okay. No, I think it is

I have to look up hair barrette again. I maybe I'm that old that I can use the term hair barrette

But I feel like people know what that is. Anyway, um, it's

Wait, where are we now we're talking about the word of track shape of track

Uh, why was I talking about the shape of track?

Oh, you couldn't oh, I did I now remember sorry

You can't see in the s's you can't see from one s to the next. Oh, yeah

So a couple times people looped it in the third s they went, uh, huh?

Whoa

And then the but they'd have two cars on track at the same time

Opposite ends and sometimes they'd loop it and stall or loop it and their wheels would get stuck in a hole or something

And the other guy would be coming in hot

I saw some incredible last minute avoidance maneuvers from

Zwart did the best one. I've I saw he he downplays it. He was like no, there was more there was room there and I was like

That was pretty there were a couple cost saving maneuvers where people came around a corner and suddenly saw a vehicle

They definitely didn't want to hit. I don't think

I don't think two cars came into contact the whole thing. That's correct. I think that's pretty good

Yeah, that's good because it it could easily happen

I mean you could easily have a car spun out somewhere and a guy sure

You know can't stop because some of the walls are what three feet tall

Maybe maybe taller or probably four. Yeah, you it's easy to come around a corner and not be able to see

You know what's around it and if the flagger doesn't see it or if you don't slow down enough

You know based on the yellow. Yeah, you could have a big problem. Yeah

Um, what was your favorite vehicle to watch?

Oh

My favorite vehicle to watch. I really enjoyed um

The four-wheel drive

Big power stuff just because it was huge angle and huge rooster tails Bronco had the noise

It was like big v8 and and fast and angle. Yeah

You know a lot of the other cars that on the on a tarmac course would be so fast are just so slow

at this and so that's kind of a

A funny thing to see that kind of stuff being

Humbled a bit, you know like I bet if you compared the lap time of like the pagani or something to the manks

It's probably like the same

That old beetle smoked

The tim's cars the other night the singer uh turbo. I mean all those things were going three miles per hour

Oh, yeah, chris was driving the singers and I was like, how is that? He was like misery

He was like not just wasn't there all it they're all at red line and like, you know letting off

Boost and stuff which is cool. Yeah barely and going like nine. Yeah. Yeah, it's in the car like

You know the video of the manks like it look it's slow

It's like Hannah was like we topped out at 29 miles an hour or something

It's like not fast, but like you you have no traction at either the front or the back end

So like it is pretty exciting the walls are there like the walls are very much there

um

But like dude so many nice people all all those the the fucking crew of Porsche dealers I met

Uh and hung out with David and mark and Howard all these guys own their own Porsche stores

I was six of them fucking guys uh and Shannon like all these Porsche dealers

They all had this big this vip tent and and they took such good care of Hannah made sure

She got the best view when I went out and whatever was so nice

Um and all the new like racing people I met and Montana people we met it was fucking cool

Really cool. Definitely have to go back nice, but we have to go back with a with a car that's in the race

Yeah, yeah, I was wondering if they would allow kit copers with spikes

I'm probably not. I don't know. I mean they allow like weird built ships. So yeah, like I probably like who knows

Maybe we could figure out something that would be fun and interesting like

I don't know what but

Uh, maybe I mean

If Graham's going back, maybe we run one of the legends cars. Well, I told Graham like we need we can't they won't let us have like

Seven legends cars. I said four. I think I pitched wheel to wheel legends cars for max

And I you know, I think there's enough room for that the cars are

Cheap enough and I think the liability is fine. Yeah, and he and I'm texting him and he's like, all right

If we do that you have to drive one and I said this text thread counts as a rate contractor and I witnessed myself

Yeah, but I think that would work because they're so little that I could work

It's probably one of the only things you could wheel to wheel race there

They said this year their insurance company said absolutely not to wheel to wheel racing also said absolutely not to ski joring

where you tow skiers

Um, but they said they're really trying to get ahead of that so they can do it next year

So I don't know the ski joring. I mean on the first day you'd need ice skates. Yeah. Yeah, I know

It's so shady. Yeah. Yeah, but I don't love to see it

It'd be funny if if they go back to their insurance and they go we'd like to do wheel to wheel and they say no

I'm like, okay. What do you think about, uh, you know drag race hill climb wheel to wheel and they go never mind

You can do the legends thing

Fuck so fun

Shout out to fucking sam and brian and jack and david and jen and fucking all empty ferty and uh, arena and uh

britney and

vrenny and max and carlos and philip

and and uh

Anyone else who I may have forgotten like they they cultivated the vibe perfectly

It was not an old stuffy thing, which I would say like quail can sometimes feel like that monary car week

It's just this like the music was aimed at people like 28 to 40

Yeah, I mean it was it was definitely a party atmosphere for people around our age and younger and like

You know the creators they brought with you know fordsburg and other people with like big turbo crazy shit

There was a lot less

There was just a lot of playfulness to it, which I really thought was great. It wasn't uh all like 60s

Supercars, you know, which some of the like the saint maritz

Stuff for instance can sort of be that, you know, it's it feels like um

Villa de este but on the lake whereas they're trying to make it more

Young and fashiony and fun. So the people's outfits were superb. Really good. I mean, there's definitely some like

Richy rich cowboy chic all over the place, but also like some very funny like 80s ski outfits and like

But Tim was like fucking

Arctic pimp with

I got a great photo of him and Amelia standing next to each other both wearing long fur coats with me the picture of me and

Hannah, I think there's a there's a gallery that might have but Tim's

fur coat in it, uh

I don't know. Did I not have it? Shit

Shit no fur. Oh, he was in the racing suit instead of the fur coat

Amelia had the racing suit over fur coat look

It's a smart thing

You know, you're raising suits not that warm you throw the coat on until you're ready to get in the car again

Finally got to wear my lotus jacket after three years. Good jacket. Good jacket. Hannah actually Hannah was like it worked out

It made me like a beacon Hannah said I was very easy to find that is very true

It was really helpful for everybody else was wearing those fat jackets

Which are cool jackets, but like you couldn't find any play

They also look like employees

So I kept thinking like oh, they work here and then you'd realize it was person like Harris was wearing one

For half the day and he just looks like someone who works there

I was hoping that if I wore the wrong brands in front of ferdy for long enough

He would just give me one out of frustration lotus come you should have worn a Mercedes jacket

Maybe and then maybe but I was wearing the Ferrari thermal the first night and then I was wearing the lotus jacket

He's like come on man

So I bought that red hat

Uh and a sticker

It was very well done and the logistics of transportation was so impressive for getting people

Yeah in an hour from town and up and down. I mean it was pretty

When they they had like 15 long buses. I thought this is too many buses, but no, it was great

It was actually it was great. We had I had to take shuttles to all three lots on different occasions and they were very efficient

Yeah

Um, so that was uh, that was what zack and I have been doing for the last like a week

We you want to go to the people?

Uh, do we have a few 52 minutes? Yeah. Yeah, we can go to the people uh in the meantime

Can we stop sending me towing recommendations because now the towing recommendations are getting crazier

Like they're not we've already covered all the normal stuff now

It's stuff that's full of like rage and in what's funny is there's extremely

passionate people about towing

On either side

of the

You must have

Double your

Whatever you need to tell you must have double that capacity

And you absolutely do not need that double capacity and here's a hundred examples of people who are doing it this other way

And these people are both fucking adamant

Absolutely adamant and i'll tell you something they can't fucking both be right

It's true. It's like a subjective thing. I guess

um, but I deeply regret

Having this discussion in in public

I I learned years ago that the way that someone like me

Should buy a car is to fucking

Have just buy it and then just buy it and then go here's what I bought or call two people and ask them what they think

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because like

Anyway, anyway, we should please stop now

An email I got like yesterday

Started friendly and by the end by the by the end of the email

It was like enjoy your warped brake rotors and smoked transmission

like

What happened? Are you trying? Were you trying to give me advice?

Are you trying to like pre call me a cock like what are we what are we doing here?

Well, the other side someone messaged me and they have one of these brian was it brian john brian james brian james trailers

And they they they live in the uk and they said that the these trailers are balanced in a way

That is meant to be used with lighter cars. You don't need the big truck all that kind of stuff

So now i'm saying this and if people

Live in america and they have trailers that are also balanced that way don't yell at me

This is just what they were said because in the uk

In europe they don't have big trucks

So the trailer design might be meant to be used with something like that

I mean that was kind of the idea all the photos on the website. They're using a goddamn discovery golf

It's a fucking a disco. It's probably a shitty diesel disco too in england

It's not a svr one the only thing i would wonder is

You know, do they have big mountains and hills in england that you go up and down?

Whereas we you know drive to yosemite with the trailer and come down and crossing through the country

I mean their mountains are not as big their mountains

No, but but if you have a hybrid if you have a regenerative braking system and fucking

Cayenne brakes dude, you'll charge your battery so fast probably

But like you're not smoking a cayenne brake going down a hill because you've got a fucking trailer

I I refuse to believe that that that company would sell a car like that

It was you know

Wes had such a terrible experience with a cayenne he fucking went off on it

But like that's not representative of the larger cayenne ownership experience

Well, he also lives in montana where there's no service center

Also, so also true

Let's go to the people the people who keep the fucking ship floating down the ocean patreon.com

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Let's see a dog named frog in a unimog

Uh, I was super stoked for the rodentrack drive in the northwest, but it rains here in june

I don't want to risk the money on an iffy weather month

Have any of the other drives you've hosted had bad weather. Yeah, of course

Obviously, it's rained. Um, we we can't control that we we tried to

Uh, we try to we try to use the Jewish space lasers

Uh, you know herst set up that system for this eventuality

All herst publications do have access to the Jewish space laser system. It's built into the tower

Yeah, that's what your entry fee buys you. You you do get um

It won't always be sunny, but whatever weather, uh, we do get we paid for

So, uh

It's it's uh 60 of the time it works a hundred percent of the time

I mean, yeah, what are you gonna do if it rains? I mean, um

It it it typically does not stop us from doing anything. Um

So, uh, it's never rained on one of our track days. So that's that's important. Um, and like

it it

It does rain in the pacific northwest in june, but it's not like the super rainy season. It's usually intermittent

Yeah, it's usually pretty nice actually. It's a good time to go there

Panic at my disco says

the career all right

Once the korean taco recipe the problem with the korean taco recipe is it's not like a recipe like you go to the korean market

and you

This is this is fucking hard to explain

You get marinated bulgogi beef or or you marinate chicken or you pick your fucking protein

marinate it and then you

Cook it in an iron skillet or whatever like that's your protein and then you get tortillas and I like flour

That's your tortillas. You can get some qp mayo and make an aioli out of that or you can get

Um, some like sesame kind of you like sauces basically like

You go to the korean market and you get a bunch of the pickled vegetables and kimchis and crunchy

Uh, healthy bits that are like colorful in the kimchis section

And then you get your meats you get your tortillas and then I make a guacamole

Ish thing out of

Dice cucumbers and avocados

And I make a sauce out of soy

Sesame oil mirin and rice vinegar

And that's a sort of a guacamole and I put some sesame seeds on that and then you just like make a spread at the table

With the tortillas which you heat up in the skillet so they're nice and toasty

tortillas the proteins and then and then you just like

Make tacos taco bar kind of the difficulty of the recipe is directly related to your proximity to a korean market

Yeah, right because if you can get all the side things

You just go buy them if you have to make all those from scratch

Yeah, now it's like an eight out of ten because you have to like pick all this stuff

So that's what my only annoying because most korean markets

Don't have tortillas and sometimes don't have avocados. So it's a two stopper. Oh for sure. Yeah

Um

Let's see

The clutch whispered thinking about getting a bmw 230i coop thoughts on the latest gen two series

Slightly used one with the last gen system. We drove the last gen one. It was good. Yeah, it's a very light car

Fun canyon car really comfortable. Mm-hmm

Uh drae from houston. Have there been any

Miss steps in content that you've done that you felt like was a miss or didn't age well

Well age well was a lot. I mean, there's so many

I mean, I there's I there's gotta be dozens of jokes I made from 2009 to 2012 that

That did not age well first 30 podcasts. Yeah, there's plenty of that

So try not to judge me today on whatever the fuck I said in 2010, please

but

You know

Yeah, I mean there's there we tried to put the podcast and the youtube channel on the same channel for two years

That was a bad idea. That would be a big misstep of the of mine

um

I mean our king of hammers video last year was a miss because

We put a lot of work into it and it got like no views

That was a miss in terms of we thought our audience would be into that content and

Incorrect. Yeah, I mean

Y'all don't like trucks very much, you know off-roading. I mean, unfortunately like

We now know what it takes to get like good traffic on stuff and get picked up like I know

We know it's just like it would I would rather fucking kill myself than do it

Seriously, I'll park cars first. So

that's

If you see that there's like

You know down to less traffic or stuff that doesn't do you know do do so well now like

I could make a title that's like this thing sucks or something and it would probably do a lot better

Talk mad shit about stuff and well, we talked to someone recently and you can name them if you want to but

You know the the parts of the video that get the most traffic are standing and talking about the vehicle

Not the driving of the vehicle. Yeah, and for a long time in our it was the opposite in our experience

And what we like to do is drive the vehicle

so yeah

Oh man

Murray long last name says

What italian design studio would you have designed your flagship car if you ran a manufacturer?

I mean, it's hard to not

Say pin in farina

Right, that would be my choice. That would probably be my choice. I think I've liked their style the long for the most decades

Or gi giaro, but probably pin in farina

Uh

Quadrifoldy o-face

Uh, would you would you put white wheels on your car?

Only certain only rally car rally looking cars depends on the color of the car and the size of the car

I think and yeah, they won't be clean most of the time, but that's okay

I think they think they can look cool in the right moments very selectively though

It's like you gotta you gotta really apply white wheels with a gentle touch. Mm-hmm rally cars can work

I think some Mercedes like sedanza can work

Uh

Okay, like a white white on white. Maybe maybe I don't think you could do like red on white or

I don't know. I mean if it's not a rally

Thing or like an imsa type of thing. I would probably well and then the question is does this look better in white than any other color

Like if the wheel is cool and it could work, but is it forcing anyone to look better as silver?

I think most of the time people put white wheels on their car. They would look better in other colors

Except rally cars like clear rally cars like have at it how you can have your white

um

Mustang geek says what do you think of fords low-cost ev platform project promising path forward or an overhype project

That's in the fall short of expectations

Just in yes

Are they it seems like are they going after slate basically? Yeah, they saw what they did and they said okay

Let's try to do that too

Yeah, Ford has a real habit of seeing what other people are doing and then trying to get in that market and sometimes it works

um, you know, they made a better tesla model y with the mucky if you ask me but um

I I

I keep wondering

um, if they're really it because

If there is a market for someone who wants an electric truck

But also but a very cheap electric truck like is that is there a customer for that? I

I assume

Farley and whoever else thinks that there's a customer for that same thing with slate like does does somebody really want like the

Nissan versa of electric trucks

Like wouldn't they just rather just buy like a fucking unkillable?

Like if you if you said for someone for 25 000 you can have this small truck

And it has a corolla motor in it or an electric ford powertrain in it. Which would they want?

Well, I don't know. It's like you could buy the maverick or you could buy a slate or you know a ford slate

Essentially, I just I don't do you think there's a customer for that? I don't know. I don't I think

I think it would go towards fleet sales and commercial use first

And I wonder if slate seeing the take rate be higher

From like commercial stuff than it is from individuals

And maybe that maybe that's the argument

Like if you have a a gardening company and all of your leaf blowers and shit are electric now

Can you charge them off the truck? Sure. So then are they buying it delivery vans?

You know, we're seeing more of those like rivian delivery vans and other companies that make the delivery vans work

But that's not I don't I don't know if that was pitched as like this

I I'm just saying like I don't know if that's where the popularity would be

Versus because you get more torque and power than you would from a cheap ice engine

Maybe that's some of the argument, but I don't know. Yeah

I guess if you are using

Electric tools and then you can then keep them charged off the truck that is a benefit

Um, I'd be shocked if people

Like individuals want this as their daily or something. I think it'd be much more

I think it's there's business cases for it from businesses. Yeah

Yeah, maybe

We'll find out. I don't know

I would I would probably

Buy if I was gonna buy that I'd probably buy a Ford before I'd buy a slate

Uh, I would too. Yeah

Granny Shifton not double clutching like you should two to three hundred k

Pre-owned supercar. What are you buying? Oh, yeah, uh, 720. Oh

Let me inform you Zach glabman that you can put the 750 year set in a 720 for about 26 000

Yeah, I would do a 720s

I was really staring at the 458 for a second because of the sound

But it's not my favorite Ferrari aesthetically

I like the 720s a little bit better and the 720s has like the greatest steering in the world and it's fast as fuck

Yeah, I would do that. Yeah 720 with 750 gears would be a real delight

Roadhead and track marks. That's a good one had rules

Uh, you've stated on the show before that west virginia has surprisingly good roads as a native. I've seen this firsthand

What part of our state were you thinking of specifically? Um

Where's a where's summit point that's that summit point the racetrack is where where I've been in that area

Um, some points in virginia for for the right as I think right

Is in virginia not what no it is in west virginia. I remember being on uh several different

launches

um

That have been originated out of

Uh summit point and the drive routes

In that area, I guess if you go the mountains to the west there

Yeah, it's got to be that looks like the mountains to the west of summit point, which is

Near what what's that winchester? Hey field. Hey field. That's that's the virginia side or maybe the northern

Yeah, over here. What's that say sleepy something wildlife area hunger sleepy creek wildlife management area

Yeah, like what's what's that by that river up there on the left keep going up to the left like

There's some road down there. Is that a windy road? Oh very yeah. Yeah, paw paw and uh, just by paw paw

Exactly doe gully little orleans. Yeah

Basically, this is called highway 9 and 51

Near the town of forks of cacopong

I'm not laughing at that. I think it's probably native american name of some kind. Yeah. Yeah

I will laugh at so it's basically at the corner of west virginia maryland in virginia

Is the is the

What fuck me what is this mountain range?

Is it appellation probably right that's the one that's now the one that runs

Oh, uh, yeah eastern

Right

Basically, yeah, so kind of in the mountains

Yeah, what the western uh

Wester I have no idea which roads I've driven in west virginia. I just remember they were very good and there was nobody around

Like when we did the rally north america in 2015. Yeah, they were just generally of a very high caliber

Yeah tarmac was good quality camber was right

Shape was nice. Yeah, it seems to be just true of the east coast in general once you get out of the cities

Well, considering west virginia is known for having like no money

Like this it's surprisingly good. I think they just like tennessee

I mean tennessee

I don't think has a lot of money but the roads are fantastic because they don't have earthquakes

And maybe they don't have a lot of like freezing temps that then heat up like colorado, so

yeah, um

Royale bro ham with cheese for pretty much the entire history of cars the collector market has followed a pattern of value

Spiking when middle-aged people can afford the cars of their youth which of course we're seeing now with cars from the 90s

And aughts will that cycle be broken 20 years from now?

That's a good question because the people won't be able to afford the hypercars

Uh, because all the cars are still too expensive. Yeah, I mean there's a they're they're making more super cars than ever

Not all of those cars can be investment grade

Very true, you know, I think we might see like right now

There's more people with more money than ever

But will that population dwindle because people a little younger than us. There's fewer people that are going to make that kind of money

Yeah, I don't know

I don't think the cycle will be broken. I think there will be

enough enthusiasm among the youth to

Buy the cars that they

I don't like I see young kids that are into cars. Oh, I don't think there won't be that but like let's just say there were

Let's say there were 40 million boomers

That made enough money to drive the muscle car market insane and also the markets above it, right?

And then now there's maybe like 30 million millennials that have lots of money

They're pumping the radwood cars and everything else

But maybe because of income inequality in the k-shaped economy will there be only 20 million?

Gen Z that have that kind of money. Well, yeah, but you but like there'll be this 1500 billionaires

That will hoover all this shit up

I think

The the price the the the the car price

Market will follow the cycle. There will be the spike

There will just be fewer people buying more cars each and buying at the top

I think so maybe we would see a softening in prices of like the cool, you know

The cool cars from the odds that weren't blue chips. Yeah the gts t's and the na supras and and whatever, right?

um

Voices off camaro arey

Disabling a adas and liability. Oh, we spoke with a lawyer our insurance insurance person about this

And he said and he said in 20 years experience to his knowledge

There has never been an insurance claim

Denied because an adas system was disabled. Now. He said he said he's never heard of it. So

Which I I think would uh

Answer the question post there

Duffel shuffle retirement club any low-key ballers at the ice race

Uh group b rally cars in driver condition or meticulously restored

Euro spec cars

Oh low low-key ballers. I mean there were multiple

Fiat 131 bravas, which I you know, you don't see in one place one was a little scruffy and one was a full-on race car

The white one was a race car was fast. Yeah

um

I mean, uh, I didn't see any like proper group b stuff. There's one escort there for the fort escort

There's an escort cause worth one of the reps all ones and there were a couple other like

There was a bunch of ralified 9-elevens. Yep that were but they were not like uh, ken blocks

Lucy block drove kens east african safari car

um

But nothing that was like there was a there was a dude ripping a fucking real lancy astratos

That's true. I mean that's but there was no there was no tommy mac and in something there wasn't a collin mccray

Subaru there wasn't anything like that

Yeah, I don't think ferdy wanted to

Fill the whole thing with competition rally cars. I think he wanted

I mean because there was a bunch, you know, there was there was um

all-wheel drive

Like huge power all-wheel drive

And then there was like rally car

And then there was two-wheel drive four-wheel drive

or four-wheel drive two-wheel drive

And then like super car

And then classic and then show like that's a lot

So they couldn't have too many cars from any one category

But and I also think a lot of the visual excitement comes from the juxtaposition

Of you know, the super street car or the sport street car in the snow sliding sideways

So if it was just if it was so many rally cars, you go, yeah, I expect rally cars to be in the snow. Yeah

Uh gently used marital aid says thoughts on a aesthetic special editions cool or crap. For example the

BMW m2 turbo design

Uh, you know Porsche does heritage design packages and whatever Toyota crawler s, you know, it's aesthetic, but there's no

So change

I

I don't like hate that they exist

but I don't

Like I don't like when people

collect stuff like this

Because it's supposed to be a collector's edition. You know, I think that's like sort of douchey like if you like the colors

And you want to buy this

As the color package for your car like okay cool

But don't come up to me and be like I have an m2 turbo design edition

You and m2 buddy. Yeah, it's got a fucking color

And I think that's the weird thing of this for you know the original 2002 ti

But their turbo was like

It was a different piece of hardware under the hood and they also wanted to signal that to people out on the street to tell

You that it was different this

You're signaling that but then actually it's the same car as everybody else has

So if you really like the way it looks rock on but I don't like hate every heritage scheme

You know the Porsche heritage edition target that we drove. I didn't love the graphics

But I liked the rest of it. It was a good car with the meatball was dumb the meatball was dumb the graphics are dumb, but like

The let's just you know, we must not

Disperage the mercury nautica villager ever

That's hallowed minivan

But like, you know other examples, uh, this this uh, this person has a Volvo v90

CC ocean race a Julia quad super sport and a lotus amir a Chapman bespoke edition

If I saw you at a car show and you said you have a lotus amir a Chapman bespoke edition

That would that would I would cringe in your face. I think you just you have an amir

So this is the supersport. Yeah, I mean

Again, if you like the color package fucking rock out with your cock out

I mean the good news here is the alpha quad supersport is just black. Yeah. Yeah

And maybe there's other colors too, but it doesn't have like a the BMW had very bright turbo colored graphics all over it. Yeah

don't hate it, but uh

You know it ain't it ain't special. It's just a color if you like it. That's what that that is what is important, right?

um

Lightning Mcdragg queen funny

Taking the work trip to mammoth lakes

In california in april. I'm probably gonna fly into reno and rent a car

Any good driving roads or must-see spots between reno?

I mean, yeah, dude all of them like alabama hills. You're taking the 395

No, reno's north of mammoth on the 395 alabama hills is south, right, but they're flying to reno and then driving

Sorry albama hills is south of mammoth mammoth. Oh, yeah mammoth hills. Yeah. No, I mean like all the roads around tahoe

Drive to instead of take the time instead of driving straight from reno to mammoth drive to mammoth via tahoe

So go around and then make a you know

Spend a night in top. Maybe not spend a night, but like that's the the fun way. Yeah

Because that's why here's 395 and then there's hiking galore like go to bishop and go west up whatever road it is

That goes up to mosquito flats and you can park at 10,000 feet and do one of the greatest easiest hikes

Along little lakes valley if you like walking it is one of the most beautiful places. I've been to that's also where we went to

Um bristle cone pine forest right that's on the east side. It's really cool. Yeah, that was super cool

But basically just like look for the squiggles plan to drive from reno around lake tahoe

And then down to mammoth and then just find the squiggles because there's like tons of them there

Tough owed bought an f 87

Uh, is that is it? What is that? What's an f 87? I don't actually know what that is

I've been using them my daily on the turnpike in the garden state parkway

I find the suspension to be very stiff. Do you have suggestions for softening it?

I was m2 was the before it got ugly. It's the old m2. Yeah. Yeah, I mean an aftermarket solution

Uh

If it's a competition then it's then it's stiffer. Yeah, that was that was a really stiff one

Um the non-competition was better in that regard the turnpike fucking sucks, dude driving an m car down the turnpike is terrible

That tarmac is garbage. I think I mean they said, you know, olens

Maybe the manufacturer is less important than the spring rate

And the intention of the coilover so you could I mean there's plenty of good companies that make great suspension

You honestly might have to do research from like rally forms or contact a suspension company and just say like write them and say

Here's what i'm dealing with

What would you recommend and a lot of them will assemble a spring and in a shock for you and you say hey

We'll put this lighter rally spring on this street damper or something and that might be the solution

Yeah, these are like pretty small companies like they'll they'll work with you on a specific package

but

man, that's a tough

m2 on the turnpike every day that's

That when commuting back and forth to philly on the turnpike from from uh

Where I was from in mustang that was like I did that for six months

I was like get this mustang the fuck out of here and I bought a suv

Uh light bias. What are your feelings on the recent watch market report and it's bad news for brands like long jeans and omega

I didn't read the watch market report mainly because I don't give a shit

But it's it's the k-shaped economy, bro

Everything let me guess

Rolex Patek and ap are making a fuck ton of money

And everyone else is down

Uh and if if you make a mid-tier watch right now your customer is not spending money

Like they're not buying a new watch right now. Um, it would suck to be in the market of

Five to ten thousand dollar watches right now. That would be uh, that would be bad. Um

But if you're selling watches for like

$500,000 you my friend have no problems because in this economy

Fucking 2,500 people globally by all the keep all of those people afloat

Uh

The swinging tire what unusual cars would make fun ice race cars

Depends if you want what do you want fun to mean? Do you want the car to actually drive properly or are you just talking about silly?

Well, there's a catering there. Yeah, and that I think uh needs a little more ground clearance

But that would be very fun because it's like a street driven legends car essentially. Yeah, sam's aerial adam

Our aerial nomad was was that was sam's car. Yeah sam's car that whoever drove it did it well

Because they were sliding it very nicely. That's a good thing for that. Yeah

You know, uh a fucking like a reno r5 turbo it would probably drive terrible

But it would be terrible on the street too. Yeah, they're not great

Uh that off-road viper

That would be cool with some big big spikes

um

I think yeah, I think front engine's great because you can just carry the slide past the whole crowd

So that's what I'd want to do something like, you know big a fucking fox body with big like one inch spikes on it

Anything like that would be super cool that big was it like 944 the one that was like a trophy truck

Yeah with the ls it didn't seem to be running right it didn't you know, you had a trans problem

And it wasn't fat but it just looked like good spectacle. It did look cool. Yeah

9 944s seemed to be about about right as well. I mean people there was a couple different lifts in 944s that were cool

Uh

I know something loud with four-wheel drive would be great

That's light like uh, uh, Amelia's car was rad. Yeah, that's such a cool thing. Yeah

R32 skyline

Rally car rally would be kick-ass actually that would be super fun. I would very much enjoy that

Uh, right country night school you're building a replica code or a cobra and you can choose any engine

But it can't be a v8. What are you gonna use?

Why would you do this? I mean just to make us mad answer is v12

I could be a v12

I

Hate this question. It's so stupid and I'm I'm like really angry about it. I know you kind of surprised me

It would sound wrong and the engine's so long. Oh, no, it's too big. Yeah

Straight six and then you're basically driving a jaguar

But with more steps. What about a w12?

Sure. All right. W12 would be the would be the length of a six cylinder

I

I do like an rb. I guess and just make it 1500 horsepower and just to placate yourself for not having a v8. This is a dumb question

Let's see, uh

Kind of did that tickle your pickle for a triple nickel. What's your favorite wheel design five spoke mesh turbine phone dial

I'm a five spoke person

Dike if I had to just choose one kind of setup for the rest of my life

I'd go five spoke of varying thicknesses or

The the bbs rally cars like that wheel is when it's filled out. That's rad on the right vehicle

The problem is that it's highly for me highly specific to the car. There is no

There is no favorite design. I would put on all cars, but like no like the chroma dora style

Which is basically the ferrari Daytona wheel

through

The 328 wheel so like that five spoke italian star that was on everything

Looks like the three-piece look. I guess it was well. Just look at a ferrari Daytona

Magnesium wheel

That yeah, so it didn't have to be that color but that the that star pattern right

That that you that started on the Daytona and it went through pretty much every ferrari of the 80s

You could get with a variation of this star pattern, right?

So I think that pattern looks the best on the most different types of shapes

You know, I agree

You could you could make a wheel that looks like a five spoke wheel

You could make a five spoke wheel fit on almost anything kind of well

Especially with like that that simple thick spoke. I've seen it on

911 turbos and I've seen it on mustangs on you know, whatever and I think it works on pretty much everything

Stice slice the loans glass coffee table

Uh, the latest season guy Fieri's tournament of champions just started if I could cook

In a competition against another automotive journalist. Who would it be and what would I make?

Who's who else is a good cook that we work with?

Is Johnny a good cook

He's a great baker. His bread is fucking fabulous. I've I don't know if I've ever had his cooking that wasn't bread

but

I've never eaten

Food made by another journalist. I don't know if I've ever

Yeah, who's you know, you know, who's a really good cook Amelia. Oh really Amelia

Amelia made me and Hannah a great dinner. Uh, she was she was a very good cook. I was impressed

Mmm

Johnny's probably a good cook if I had to guess I would guess that he is

Um, who else I bet daniel could cook. He just seems like probably but I don't know this

I bet some of the like

Really fancy people that that go out like people that like the right for like rob report someone some like bossam

Yeah, boss basm can probably cook if I had to guess

Shit someone I'm no I know someone somewhere

Is like I know I bet your hairs can't cook for shit. No, he can't cook for nothing Chris couple like cameraman

Like I know a few production people that are better cooks than than actual automotive journalists

I'd go ahead to head with Amelia

If I had to go cook off for sure

Daytime running with my camel lights nice

If you had to pick someone from the youtube

Space to review each of your cars, who would you choose personality and car? Hmm

Oh, that's fun

Chris I uh, I would want, um

Chris uh to review the manks

I would want

um

Um

Jethro to drive my spider

Uh, and I would like dug to drive the delica. Oh interesting. Yeah, that's a good one

This person suggested regular cars for the delica, which would also be hilarious, but totally different style. Did they do that?

probably they

No, they didn't they did uh, it was they did my delorean back in the day and then nino's dodge nitro

I think

I don't remember

Uh matt's fox body qualified for the bus lane

Uh, a couple shows back you talked about the uh

Uh the chimes in the maserati with no visual indicator the nav and stilentus products picks up red light cameras among other things

And chimes with no visual indicator if you're running carplay

There we go. That's it. It's gotta be a red light camera chime

It's gotta be

Okay, a couple times it did happen at the red light camera near my house between my house and the 90 freeway

Uh in that area where I know there's a red light camera. That's a good note. Thank you

So it's just saying you're approaching a red light

But it's going ding ding ding. Yeah, but like that's you're approaching a red light camera a red light camera

Why did I say red light? Yeah, okay, and that's helpful. It is

Man, if you drove this thing in south korea that thing would have a metronome effect

There's so many. Well, apparently you can once you know what it is you can turn it off. Yeah, okay

All right, so you have to go in and just disable red light camera. Yeah. Yeah fun maserati facts. We have a video coming with that car

Um, thanks everybody. That's our program today

Our next show this week is actually going to be a day late

It's going to be on friday because I don't get home from spain until 7 30 thursday night. It's a weird

It's a weird flying schedule on this one. Um, but yeah, i'm going to go drive the astin martin valhalla

I don't actually know who else will be there if someone cool is there

Maybe I can get us a little bonus podcast content while we're there

But it's, you know, astin martin's million dollar mid-engined thing at, uh,

circuits navara, so that should be a good time

So we'll be at day late the second half of this week, but we appreciate you

Thank you to our patrons for such good questions today

Everyone else get in on the fun at patreon.com slash the smoking tire and I will see you next time. Bye

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