A lively discussion unfolds around the evolution of the Lamborghini Countach, exploring how the addition of features over the years has led to a decline in its original appeal. The hosts debate the merits of various models, emphasizing how 'more' often detracts from the driving experience. Anecdotes about personal car preferences and comparisons to food, particularly burgers, illustrate the theme that balance is key in both automotive design and culinary delights. The conversation also touches on other cars that exemplify this principle, making for an engaging and humorous episode.
Download Car & Classic’s app today to see our 2CG’s, and our weekly pick of our favourite listings: https://candc.li/App_Download_
(00:00) Intro
(00:06) More is less
(15:30) The news
(19:36) You bought a private plate, but you didn't ! Private plate purchasing shenanigans
(28:24) Has Porsche gone a little bit boring ?
(46:37) The pleasure of using a car as it was designed
(59:10) 2CG by Car & Classic
(1:10:02) Music
Welcome to Chris Harris on Cars. The platform where Chris Harris (of Top Gear & automotive journalist) explores the obsessive world of cars. From in-depth reviews and hilarious podcasts, to pushing a car to its limits and debates on the future of the automobile - Chris and his friends bring their unfiltered passion, expertise, and humour. Whether you're a die-hard petrolhead or just curious about our world, this is your go-to destination for everything on four wheels.
"...isn't it supposed to be in a bit like a 512 TR? Isn't it supposed to be a better car, the anniversary?"
The Ferrari 512 TR is a fast and stylish sports car made by Ferrari in the 1990s. It has a powerful engine and is popular among car lovers.
The Ferrari 512 TR is a high-performance sports car that was produced in the early 1990s. It is known for its powerful V12 engine and striking design, making it a classic among Ferrari enthusiasts.
"Hal Boney. When he was asked which one is the Countach for you, he says it's the LP 400."
The Lamborghini Countach is a famous sports car that was made from the 70s to the 90s. It's known for its sharp angles and powerful engine, making it a symbol of luxury and speed.
The Lamborghini Countach is a legendary supercar produced from 1974 to 1990, known for its striking design and powerful V12 engine. It became an icon of automotive design and performance, often discussed for its influence on the supercar genre.
"A normal full-size Range Rover with the very, very powerful petrol engines don't work."
The Range Rover is a fancy SUV made by Land Rover. It's known for being very comfortable and powerful, often used for both city driving and off-road adventures.
The Range Rover is a luxury SUV produced by Land Rover, known for its off-road capabilities and high-end features. It offers powerful engine options and a spacious interior, making it a popular choice among luxury vehicle buyers.
"...absolutely bloody awful 70th anniversary Defender V8. Yes. That was made by, bless them, Land Rover Classic."
The Land Rover Defender V8 is a tough, off-road vehicle that has a powerful V8 engine. It's known for its ability to handle rough terrain and is a favorite among people who love adventure.
The Land Rover Defender V8 is a powerful variant of the classic Defender model, known for its rugged off-road capabilities and distinctive design. The V8 engine enhances its performance, making it a popular choice among enthusiasts.
A V8 engine has eight cylinders that help the car produce a lot of power. It's commonly found in powerful cars and trucks, making them faster and more capable.
A V8 engine is a type of internal combustion engine with eight cylinders arranged in a V configuration. It is known for providing a good balance of power and smoothness, often used in performance and luxury vehicles.
"This is really crap. I thought it was going to be the British G-Wagon. And it's like a TR7"
The Mercedes-Benz G-Class, or G-Wagon, is a fancy SUV that looks very tough and can go off-road. It's popular for its unique shape and luxurious features inside.
The Mercedes-Benz G-Class, also known as the G-Wagon, is a luxury SUV that has been in production since 1979, known for its rugged design and off-road capabilities. It has gained a cult following for its distinctive boxy shape and luxurious interior.
"...it's like a TR7 with a V12 in it, with an automatic gearbox. It was really bad. And I mean, they still hold their money, those things."
The Triumph TR7 is a British sports car made in the late 1970s and early 1980s. It has a unique triangular shape and is known for being one of the last cars made by Triumph.
The Triumph TR7 is a sports car that was produced by the British automaker Triumph from 1975 to 1981. It is known for its distinctive wedge shape and was one of the last models produced by the brand before it ceased operations.
"...with a V12 in it, with an automatic gearbox. It was really bad. And I mean, they still hold their money, those things."
A V12 engine has twelve cylinders arranged in a V shape. It usually runs very smoothly and can produce a lot of power, which is why it's often found in high-end cars.
A V12 engine is a twelve-cylinder engine arranged in a V configuration. This type of engine is known for its smooth operation and high power output, making it popular in luxury and performance vehicles.
"...with an automatic gearbox. It was really bad. And I mean, they still hold their money, those things."
An automatic gearbox is a system in a car that changes gears on its own. This means you don't have to manually shift gears while driving, making it easier to operate the vehicle.
An automatic gearbox is a type of transmission that automatically changes the gear ratios as the vehicle moves, allowing the driver to focus on steering and acceleration without manually shifting gears.
"By the way, go and see a 599 with the rare standard wheel. There's about four of them with the living on the standard wheel. They look superb."
The Ferrari 599 is a high-performance sports car made by Ferrari. It has a powerful engine and is designed for both speed and comfort, making it a favorite among car lovers.
The Ferrari 599 is a grand tourer produced by Ferrari from 2006 to 2012, known for its powerful V12 engine and luxurious features. It combines performance with elegance, making it a sought-after model among enthusiasts.
"where he walked in and said, I want a Ferrari F12. Please do not sell me any options."
The Ferrari F12 Berlinetta is a super-fast sports car that came out in 2012. It's famous for its powerful engine and beautiful looks, making it a dream car for many people.
The Ferrari F12 Berlinetta is a high-performance sports car introduced in 2012, known for its powerful V12 engine and stunning design. It represents the pinnacle of Ferrari's engineering and is often discussed for its speed and luxury.
"...So E32 BMW 7 Series, they bought out the Majestic 750..."
The BMW 7 Series is a fancy car made by BMW that is designed for comfort and luxury. The E32 is a specific version of this car that was made in the late 1980s and early 1990s.
The BMW 7 Series is a luxury sedan that has been produced since 1977, with the E32 being the second generation produced from 1986 to 1994. It is known for its advanced technology and high level of comfort.
"...if you go back and read the reports and if you've drive them, the 735i is a sweeter car. It's just a nicer, better balanced car."
The BMW 735i is a luxury sedan that offers a smooth and comfortable ride. It's known for being well-balanced, making it enjoyable to drive.
The BMW 735i is part of the 7 Series, known for its luxury and performance. It features a balanced design and is often praised for its driving dynamics compared to other models in its class.
"Howdy did the same with the W12 A8. There's so many examples of..."
The Audi A8 W12 is a high-end luxury car that has a powerful W12 engine, providing a smooth and powerful driving experience. It's designed for comfort and advanced features.
The Audi A8 W12 is a luxury sedan equipped with a W12 engine, known for its smooth power delivery and refined performance. It represents Audi's flagship model, combining advanced technology with luxury.
"I think the best one I've ever driven by some margin was the previous generation G-Wagen. There was a V12 G65."
The G-Wagen is a tough and luxurious SUV made by Mercedes-Benz. The previous generation is the older version that had its own unique style and features.
The Mercedes-Benz G-Wagen, also known as the G-Class, is a luxury SUV known for its rugged design and off-road capabilities. The previous generation refers to the model before the latest redesign, which may have different features and performance characteristics.
The G65 is a special version of the G-Wagen that has a very powerful V12 engine. It's designed for those who want a mix of luxury and extreme performance.
The Mercedes-Benz G65 is a high-performance variant of the G-Class, equipped with a V12 engine. It is known for its powerful performance and luxury features, making it one of the top models in the G-Class lineup.
"...they had about 630 horsepower, but it had so much torque."
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful an engine is. More horsepower usually means a car can go faster and accelerate better.
Horsepower is a unit of measurement for engine power. It indicates how much work an engine can perform over time, with higher horsepower generally translating to better acceleration and speed.
"...but it had so much torque. It was a twin-turbo V12 that you could feel the chassis rails twisting when you're accelerated."
Torque is a measure of how strong an engine is at making the car move. More torque means the car can start moving faster and pull heavier loads.
Torque measures the rotational force an engine produces. It's crucial for acceleration and pulling power, especially at low speeds. High torque allows a vehicle to move quickly from a standstill.
"...it had so much torque. It was a twin-turbo V12 that you could feel the chassis rails twisting when you're accelerated."
Twin-turbo means the engine has two turbochargers that help it produce more power. This makes the car faster and more efficient than if it only had one turbo.
A twin-turbo setup uses two turbochargers to increase an engine's power output by forcing more air into the combustion chamber. This results in improved performance and efficiency compared to a single turbocharger setup.
"More was so much less. I think the SL repeatedly did this as well. An SL500 is a sweet..."
The Mercedes-Benz SL is a fancy convertible car that has been around for a long time. The SL500 version is especially liked because it drives smoothly and has a strong engine.
The Mercedes-Benz SL is a luxury roadster that has been in production since 1952, known for its blend of performance and comfort. The SL500 model is particularly celebrated for its smooth ride and powerful engine, making it a desirable choice among luxury sports cars.
"...I think the SL repeatedly did this as well. An SL500 is a sweet car."
The Mercedes-Benz SL500 is a fancy sports car that combines speed and luxury. It's designed for a comfortable driving experience and has a strong engine.
The Mercedes-Benz SL500 is a luxury roadster known for its performance and comfort. It features a powerful V8 engine and advanced technology, making it a popular choice among enthusiasts.
"The SL60, if you've driven one, they're not what you think they're going to be."
The SL60 is a model from Mercedes-Benz that combines luxury and sportiness. It's part of a series of cars that are designed for high performance and style.
The Mercedes-Benz SL60 is a luxury sports car known for its performance and design. It is part of the SL-Class, which features a range of high-performance models.
The SL63 is a sportier version of the SL-Class from Mercedes-Benz. It has a more powerful engine and is designed for better performance on the road.
The Mercedes-Benz SL63 is a higher-performance variant of the SL-Class, featuring a more powerful engine and enhanced driving dynamics compared to the SL60.
The SL65 is a more powerful and luxurious version of the SL-Class. It usually has a bigger engine and more features than the SL60 and SL63.
The Mercedes-Benz SL65 is another variant of the SL-Class, typically featuring even more power and luxury than the SL60 and SL63, often equipped with a V12 engine.
"quite often it's a little bit less. The 911 is confusing. It goes through different periods."
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car that has been around since the 1960s. It's known for its unique shape and powerful performance, and many car enthusiasts talk about how it has changed and improved over time.
The Porsche 911 is an iconic sports car known for its distinctive design and rear-engine layout. It has undergone various iterations since its introduction in 1964, making it a significant model in automotive history, often discussed for its performance and evolution over the years.
"The intuition being I could afford a turbo, but I prefer the steering feel."
Steering feel is how much you can feel the road through the steering wheel. A car with good steering feel makes it easier to control and enjoy driving.
Steering feel refers to the feedback and response a driver gets from the steering wheel when driving. A car with good steering feel allows the driver to sense the road better and enhances the overall driving experience.
"Actually, what are they? Oh, my God. Mr. Harris, you go first. Give me a Stellantis brand."
Stellantis is a large car company that owns many different car brands. It was created when two big car companies joined together, and now it makes cars under several names.
Stellantis is a multinational automotive manufacturing corporation formed from the merger of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles and PSA Group. It encompasses a variety of well-known automotive brands, including Jeep, Dodge, and Peugeot.
"...where is the nine to eight? Or where is the mini Boxster RS thing that's like limited edition? Or where's..."
The Porsche Boxster is a two-seat convertible sports car that first came out in the late 90s. It's loved for its fun driving experience and is often seen as a more budget-friendly option compared to other Porsche models.
The Porsche Boxster is a mid-engine roadster that debuted in 1996, offering a more affordable entry point into the Porsche brand. It is celebrated for its balanced handling and open-top driving experience, making it a popular choice among sports car enthusiasts.
"..., if there was a really cool, pretty new Boxster Cayman coming out now that had a really clever I.C.E. o..."
The Porsche Cayman is a two-door sports car that looks similar to the Boxster but has a hard roof instead of a convertible top. It's praised for its great handling and speed, making it a favorite among driving enthusiasts.
The Porsche Cayman is a coupe version of the Boxster, introduced in 2005, known for its sharp handling and performance. It shares many components with the Boxster but offers a more rigid structure and a fixed roof, appealing to those who prefer a coupe style.
"The new Cayenne is just an electric behemoth. And you can't get the new Taycan is"
The Porsche Cayenne is a fancy SUV that combines the features of a sports car with the space of an SUV. The newest versions are electric, meaning they run on batteries instead of gasoline.
The Porsche Cayenne is a luxury SUV that offers a blend of performance and practicality, and the latest models are now available as electric vehicles.
"And you can't get the new Taycan is so the new McCann is another electric vehicle."
The Porsche Taycan is a fast and modern electric car that looks like a sports car. It's part of Porsche's move to make more electric vehicles.
The Porsche Taycan is an all-electric sports sedan that offers high performance and advanced technology, representing Porsche's shift towards electric mobility.
"...Cayman, a Boxster, a 911, and it'll have to be a 928. And it has to be a 968. And it can't be all thos..."
The Porsche 928 is a luxury sports car that was made from the late 70s to the mid-90s. It has a different design than the typical Porsche, with the engine in the front, and is known for being comfortable and powerful.
The Porsche 928 is a grand tourer that was produced from 1978 to 1995, featuring a front-engine layout and a distinctive design. It was initially intended to replace the 911 but became known for its luxury, comfort, and performance, making it a unique offering in the Porsche lineup.
"...reme cars. I've said this before. I think the VW Golf Mark 7 1.4 TSI is an extraordinary car because th..."
The Volkswagen Golf is a small car that has been popular for many years because it's easy to drive and has a lot of space inside. The Mark 7 model is especially liked for being both fun to drive and good on gas.
The Volkswagen Golf is a compact car that has been in production since 1974 and is known for its practicality, reliability, and fun-to-drive nature. The Mark 7 version, introduced in 2012, is particularly praised for its balance of performance and efficiency.
"and feel just as good driving this car as you do in the back. But it's not my best class to say these. I think it is the Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow 2. And I think that that car is, it's just an occasion. There's one round the corner I've seen. It's clapped out at black."
The Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow is a very luxurious car made from the 60s to the 80s. It's famous for its comfortable ride and beautiful interior, making it a symbol of wealth and elegance.
The Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow is a luxury sedan produced from 1965 to 1980, known for its opulent interior and smooth ride. It represents a significant shift in Rolls-Royce's production methods and is often discussed for its classic status and craftsmanship.
"...she was with my father and they had a B3 Audi 90 Quattro. That fucking thing that was like a bar of soap, ..."
The Audi Quattro is a sporty car that was introduced in the early 80s and is famous for its all-wheel-drive system. This feature helps it grip the road better, especially in tough driving conditions.
The Audi Quattro is a revolutionary all-wheel-drive sports car that debuted in 1980, known for its performance and rally heritage. It played a significant role in popularizing all-wheel drive in performance vehicles, making it a landmark model in automotive history.
"...nce and she was with my father and they had a B3 Audi 90 Quattro. That fucking thing that was like a bar o..."
The Audi 90 is a compact car that was made in the 80s and early 90s. It's known for being well-built and has a special all-wheel-drive system that helps it handle well in different conditions.
The Audi 90 is a compact executive car produced from 1984 to 1991, known for its Quattro all-wheel-drive system and solid build quality. It is often remembered for its performance and reliability, making it a popular choice during its production years.
"... Forget about if it was part, but I found a 1981 BMW 6 Series, a 635 it, it's a five speed manual. And w..."
The BMW 6 Series is a stylish luxury car that has been around since the late 70s. The older models, especially from the 80s, are loved for their classic look and smooth driving feel.
The BMW 6 Series is a luxury grand tourer that has been in production since 1976, known for its blend of performance and comfort. The E24 model from the 1980s is particularly celebrated for its classic design and driving experience.
"...at it is. Six speed manual gearbox, 1994 Porsche 968 convertible. That is nice. Can you imagine chasin..."
The Porsche 968 is a sporty car that was made in the early 90s. It's appreciated for how well it handles on the road and is considered a great option for those who want something different from other Porsches.
The Porsche 968 is a sports car produced from 1992 to 1995, known for its balanced handling and innovative technology. It is often regarded as a hidden gem among Porsche enthusiasts, offering a unique driving experience compared to its more famous siblings.
"... mega. I think you would always look back at a VW Jetta 16 valve. That was the thinking person's Golf GT..."
The Volkswagen Jetta is a four-door car that's popular for being reliable and practical. The 16-valve model is remembered for being a bit sportier and more fun to drive than the regular versions.
The Volkswagen Jetta is a compact sedan that has been a staple in the VW lineup since 1979, known for its practicality and solid build quality. The 16-valve version is particularly remembered for its sporty performance and has a loyal following among enthusiasts.
"...is because this is such a winner. It is. A Lotus Elise S2. That was nice in the auction. I think nice, l..."
The Lotus Elise is a very light and small sports car that focuses on giving you a thrilling driving experience. It's known for being fun to drive because it handles really well on the road.
The Lotus Elise is a lightweight sports car that debuted in 1996, known for its exceptional handling and minimalist design. It emphasizes driving purity and performance, making it a favorite among enthusiasts who appreciate a raw driving experience.
"...n now. And now I'm new to these, but these little Z3Ms in silver are, I've led to believe really good c..."
The BMW Z3 is a small two-seat convertible car made in the late 90s and early 2000s. It's known for being fun to drive and became famous after appearing in a James Bond movie.
The BMW Z3 is a compact roadster that was produced from 1995 to 2002, known for its sporty design and engaging driving experience. It gained popularity after being featured in a James Bond film, making it a cultural icon of the late 90s.
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Did I talk too much?
I can't.
I just let it go.
I was thinking so much.
I didn't know that.
Did I talk too much?
I didn't know that.
I just let it go.
Take a breath.
You're not alone.
Let's talk about what's going on.
Better.
Hello and welcome to the car podcast with Chris Harrington and his friends.
I'm quite concerned because this is episode 75.
Chris Cooper is holding a lage.
You know what that means?
You know what that means?
He can get a bit loose and potty mouth by the end.
So let's go far.
Oh God, Manish has got a red wine.
Manish had a very stressful day getting back from Madrid.
Neil Clifford had a not very stressful day getting back from London.
And I've been in my flat all day because I spent five days in Bonnie, Scotland, where
I watched England get absolutely thumped at Murrayfield, which was the weirdest atmosphere
ever because it's the best atmosphere I've ever experienced in a sports stadium as we
got beaten.
How strange is that?
So to show just how fickle we are and how much we love playing the advocate of the devil,
this week, more is less.
So we've done the less is less.
More is more.
And now Manish is going to start us off with more is less.
So I think there's a car.
There's just one car.
It's always so dear to me that absolutely personifies more is less.
And that is the evolution of the Qantas.
And if you look at the very, very first one, you go back to the first one, it doesn't have
those great big air boxes at the side.
It's possibly one of just the most exciting, simple wedges.
And perhaps the writing was on the wall and that car couldn't be cooled down enough.
So they had to put those two boxes on, which actually I quite like.
I quite like those two boxes.
And you have the LP 400.
Now it came.
And I think it's an object of incredible beauty.
The tires aren't too wide.
I don't think it looks that boxy actually.
I think if you look at it carefully, you can see the curves that Gandini puts in.
You look at that beautiful rear wheel.
It's a kind of ellipse, but with the edge cut off.
I mean, the front wheel, yeah, it's a proper round wheel arch.
You know, the roof, the little periscopio part.
It's a beautiful thing.
And then it starts to go wrong.
They make the, it was the 400S.
They just called it the S.
And they started putting bloody boxes all over it.
First starting with the wheel arches.
And then you get the wall-to-wall titration.
Then you get the wing on the back.
Then you get the 5,000, the 5,000S.
Then you get the quadruple valve with a hump over the engine hood.
It just, this car just gets more and more and more absurd the more they add to it.
But just when you think they couldn't drag it any lower,
they create the anniversary edition.
And that is, it's a sack of shit.
It's my only, it's an absolute, it's an abomination.
If you just look at the original Gandini car
and then you look at this thing with its
bizarre, striked air intakes, that integrated box.
It, what a mess.
Designed famously by who?
Designed famously by who?
By darkness.
Yes.
Well, you know, given a brief and got paid for it.
And did they all sell?
Does anyone even know?
Did they all sell?
Yeah.
One of them to 25?
Those days Lamborghini just made what they could make.
There was no, they didn't say we're going to make 3,000.
They just made what they, is this post-Mimran?
Is it that sort of, yeah, probably is, isn't it?
It just, that car, it just, you know,
if you just put all the silhouettes side by side,
you would see very, very beautifully how over a period of 25 years,
more is definitely less.
It's supposed to be.
I forgot my factoid at the beginning of this.
I want to get it in now.
This is a really good one.
It was posted.
It was sent to Neil Clifford by Jeremy.
To stop Bentley's logo from being copied,
they made it asymmetric.
Count the number of feathers and you'll see that the right side has 10
and the left side has 11.
Jeremy, we love that shit.
Sorry to interrupt there.
Let's go straight back to Neil.
Well, I agree with you, Manich, really, on the anniversary,
but isn't it supposed to be in a bit like a 512 TR?
Isn't it supposed to be a better car, the anniversary?
Wasn't it sort of, maybe it was made uglier,
but also made better to drive and the engine was better?
Who was the test driver?
What was his name?
Jerry Evans, Hal Boney.
Hal Boney.
When he was asked which one is the Countach for you,
he says it's the LP 400.
He feels that the tyres give you just the right amount of grip
and the car had just the right amount of power and it was a challenge.
It was something that he still enjoys and I think by the end,
those things were just heavy washing machines, weren't they?
Horrible.
It's funny, isn't it?
I'm not going to question my Boney's opinion,
but I thought a 5000.
I like the Quattrovalvole and I like the way it looks
because I think that was my poster car.
Exactly.
This is the strange thing.
When I first saw a 400, it looked weird to me.
It looked too skinny and it looked a bit emaciated
and it took me a while and a bit of age
to appreciate the beauty and simplicity of the lines
because I love the wide-bodied Quattrovalvole.
That was the Athena poster, wasn't it?
I only had the Athena poster guy's kuntash,
the Blackwood Blackcar, right-hand drive.
I stupidly sold it.
Harvey, now at RM, bastard,
he bought it off me and he shouldn't have done.
He should have persuaded me to keep it even though I hated it.
Buy it back, Neil. Go on.
No, it's about seven times the price now.
There they are.
Morris Les, Chris Cooper.
Do you know when I realised this was true?
It was last Saturday when I was actually in the house by myself
and Lynn was away somewhere on the weekend.
Boys were both doing their things.
I was at a really, really bastard week
and I thought, you know what?
I'm going to treat myself.
I'm going to do a guilty speak with it.
I'm going to order a burger.
A few.
I'm going to order a burger from one of those app things on here.
And like everything in modern life,
it says to you, would you like extra?
Would you like an extra patty?
An extra slice of...
I thought, well, that's brilliant.
So I went on to the five guys burger thing.
Other burger surveys are available.
Lovely.
And I thought, I'm going to get the burger
because you got your last order,
which is a great thing.
Could you want to add a bit more?
So I thought, well, it's bound to be better.
Adding another slice of meat to it.
And it ruined it.
It's just too much.
It had a catastrophic...
I said catastrophic.
It was still a burger.
It was lovely.
And I had a lovely Saturday night
watching a rerun of slow horses or something like that by myself.
It was a real, like just bit of me time.
It was really nice.
And the car.
This is how fickle we are.
The car that I thought about when I was having that burger
and I thought, I was wrong about that.
It's that one.
Again, it's the one I thought more is more.
I'll change my mind.
I think that is too much.
More is less.
But there is one car that I think...
And this is all first world problems, isn't it?
Where you think it's bound to make it better,
but it doesn't.
A normal full-size Range Rover
with the very, very powerful petrol engines
don't work.
More is less.
Because it's too much power
and the body's got too much pitch
and dive and roll.
And how often, even by yourself,
would you use full throttle,
let alone with anybody else in there?
Diesel engines and those big ranges,
it's fine.
Big petrol, supercharged,
turbocharged engines as well.
So thank you, five guys
and Deliveroo
for proving and reminding to me
that actually more can be less.
Well...
Thank you for confirming
that, you know, next week your opinions will be complete.
Yeah.
Yes.
I guarantee it.
There's something very
poignant in your burger comparison there.
There is.
I'll tell you why.
Because it's not just
more.
It's about upsetting the balance of components.
That's why I chose it.
And I think you're quite right.
Because what happens is you realise that whoever
signed off the five guys burger
really knew what they were doing.
Because when you bite into it, you get just the right amount of squish.
The right amount of meat,
cheese, bread and everything else.
And if you put an extra patty in there,
suddenly it just becomes a meat.
It's not a burger, it's a meat.
Exactly.
And I think cars can be like this.
If you over egg them in certain areas,
you know, if you go too much engine, too much
suspension, not normally those things,
too much exhaust.
I think the exhaust was just too loud.
Yeah.
And actually it just took over.
So more was less.
Where's Neil Clifford on this?
I think the burger analogy could be
the analogy of the year.
Definitely.
It's so good.
We all, we all...
It all just made so much sense
when you mentioned the word burger.
We like he's nailed it.
It's amazing.
My analogy is
the absolutely bloody awful
70th anniversary
Defender V8.
Yes.
That was made by,
bless them,
Land Rover Classic.
Brilliant idea.
That's a very good example.
It looked like they were making
the perfect Defender.
We all got so excited.
Bit of a silly bloody price.
But anyway, this was going to be a keeper.
It would just be incredible.
It's the last proper Defender.
They've taken the V8 from the Jaguar
or whatever it was,
and they're making it by hand
and bespoke,
and it's all wonderful.
It was crap.
Because it wasn't balanced.
There were three burgers in the bun.
Because that's such an over-engined car.
And I knew it.
I went up to wherever that Lamington
Spa or wherever that lovely
Classic Jaguar Land Rover
place is.
Very excited.
With Emma.
Oh my God.
We've got our forever Defender.
This is going to be amazing.
Literally, by the time we got to the M40
going south,
I'm like,
oh Christ,
this thing.
This is really crap.
I thought it was going to be the British G-Wagon.
And it's like a TR7
with a V12 in it,
with an automatic gearbox.
It was really bad.
And I mean, they still hold their money, those things.
So maybe, I think they're like boomerangs.
I think people buy them with excitement
and then they don't keep them,
or they don't drive them,
or they think it's an investment,
and therefore don't drive them,
or they sell them on.
Yeah, so that was definitely,
whatever this thing is,
more is less.
That was the car for me.
And also wheels.
I'd like to add wheels.
You can really get it wrong on wheels.
Massively.
If you, you know,
oh, I'm going to get the 20 ones,
even though the standard's 19s,
or I'm going to get the flashy ones.
Always go for the basic wheel.
I think in the end,
it looks better
than the optional wheel.
I think you might be right.
That's a big topic.
By the way, go and see
a 599 with the rare standard wheel.
There's about four of them
with the living on the standard wheel.
They look superb.
Yes, they do.
As does the F12
on that basic dentist,
German dentist spec,
where he walked in and said,
I want a Ferrari F12.
Please do not sell me any options.
I do not care for them.
I think there's one country's got
a bit of a problem with more is less,
and it consistently gets it wrong.
And that is Germany.
So quite often,
it makes a super duper variant
of a car that's already very good.
And that super duper variant
only serves to remind us how good
the existing one was.
So E32 BMW 7 Series,
they bought out the Majestic 750
with the V12.
But most people,
if you go back and read the reports
and if you've drive them,
the 735i is a sweeter car.
It's just a nicer, better balanced car.
Yes.
Howdy did the same with the W12 A8.
There's so many examples of...
It's like the Peter Principle with cars.
Each model range is promoted
to its level of...
Incompetence.
What's the phrase?
Inability or something like that.
The idea that you would get promoted
to the point where you're no good at your job.
I think the best one I've ever driven
by some margin was the previous generation G-Wagen.
There was a V12 G65.
What's that?
And they made very few of them.
They had about 630 horsepower,
but it had so much torque.
It was a twin-turbo V12
that you could feel the chassis rails
twisting when you're accelerated.
And I remember being in Southern Germany
with Nilo filming it.
And I thought the car was broken.
But actually, the calibration
on the electronic safety systems
was so worried about everything
that if you just accelerated half throttle,
the yellow light would flash and it would just cut everything.
It just felt like a sort of tuner car.
So it really was.
More was so much less.
I think the SL repeatedly did this as well.
An SL500 is a sweet car.
The SL60, if you've driven one,
they're not what you think they're going to be.
SL63 that Chris has got is a car.
The 65 version of that.
It's a bit of a folly, really.
The sweet spot tends to be one run down
from the top of the ladder.
SL60, all you want is the badge.
Everything else is not as good.
You just want the badge.
And the exhaust tips.
You want the exhaust tips as well.
The square exhaust tips, yeah.
They look good.
I mean, sometimes more can be more.
But more, I think in Germany,
quite often it's a little bit less.
The 911 is confusing.
It goes through different periods.
There's definitely a period for a long time
when the turbo was the on paper car you wanted.
But in reality, you just wanted a career.
You know, a little C2 on the smaller wheels
was the sweeter car.
Or it was the one that if you were talking to your friend,
if you wanted to look like a real enthusiast,
you'd always say, yeah, I've got the baby car.
The intuition being I could afford a turbo,
but I prefer the steering feel.
Or some wank like that.
But actually, these days, the turbo is so mega.
I think if you could, you just have a turbo
when you're just a monstrous car.
So I think that does ever flow.
But yeah, there's a lot of these German makers
always make one silly version
that reminds you how good the previous top of the range was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Here we go.
I've lost the agenda.
I've screenshot the wrong thing.
A bit of news.
A bit of news.
A little update.
Do some news.
Here we go.
Do some news.
Let's go to Chris Cooper first.
So I thought we'd have a little bit of a quick quiz.
Oh, here we go.
Because in the news last week,
as in the papers again of FT this morning,
Stellantis has written off 25 billion or whatever it is
in the reversal of their EV strategy.
Car makers generally have written off nearly 100 billion.
Chris, you were saying before we started
that when you add it all up, equity loss, everybody's right off.
The total cost of the flip-flopping on strategy could be a trillion.
And we talked last week about Stellantis.
And Neil, you said,
well, they only make shit cars or something like that.
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