Has F1 fundamentally changed in 2026? | The Car Podcast #86

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Hello, and welcome to the car podcast with Chris Harrison and his little friends. This is,

I'm told, episode 86 of We Were Batsmen. We are still approaching the Nervous 90s,

but we're very proud and we're still in control. So on today's agenda, first up,

name a neighbor, a family friend, or other person who shared or influenced our mad passion

for cars, or I think we could say motor sport as well. I'm going to say,

straight away, I'm going to go to Mr Cooper, please, to tell us about this one.

Well, I'm glad you asked me because this was my little suggestion and it was prompted

by something I read at the weekend that reminded me of somebody that I know.

And this story is all about, it's all about Wallabies and the spirit of adventure.

Wallabies as in the marsupial, not the Antipodian rugby team. On Saturday, I saw online somewhere

an article that an island in Loch Lomond was up for sale.

Inchkenacken is a little island that is being sold by the Kirstie Young and her husband,

the Soho house guy. He's a Soho house guy, isn't he?

Yeah, he is someone. Neil, you're in a Soho house currently in New York. Can you confirm this or not?

I am. Good. They're selling an island and something in the article caught my eye because

they mentioned Wallabies. This island was the only captive collection of Wallabies in the UK

and that caught my ear because we used to have a neighbour near the farm who I remember when

I first started going out with Lynn. They would talk about this rather mad neighbour who had

llamas and wallabies roaming Hertfordshire in this sort of mad eccentric kind of way.

And her name, she died about 10, 12 years ago. Her name was Fiona Gore, better known to some as

Lady Aaron, Countess of Aaron. And I remember a number of conversations with my father-in-law,

John, talking on the telephone to Lady Aaron. It was sort of like listening to some sort of

Chumley Warner conversations in the 1950s and sort of class and deference and all those kind

of things. And she was clearly a lovely lady, quite eccentric. And she had wallabies in Hertfordshire.

That's pretty mad. But that's not the point of this story. I must have been towards the end of

her life in one extraordinary opportunity. Lynn and I were invited to meet her housekeeper

for a cup of tea. And Lady Aaron must have been in her 90s. And we went into the big house down

the lane, where we are. And there were pictures of power boats, speed boats on the wall,

and lots of trophies on the wall. And we met her. She was quite elderly and sort of infirm.

And she had one of those stanner stairlifes, or I suspect an early prototype. She and some of

her family had fashioned up this stairwell that lifted her whole wheelchair. It wasn't just that

and she was complaining. It wasn't fast enough, which I thought was fantastic.

And I noticed all these pictures. And I remember going back and asking my father, I said,

there are pictures of power boats and with numbers on the side. He said, oh, yeah, yeah.

That's Lady Aaron. In 1980, she was the first woman in the world to travel at more than 100

miles an hour on a speedboat on the water, Lake Windermere. Cool. She's absolutely mad. And we

had a couple more visits and had a brief conversation with her about all of her. And she was completely

obsessed with speed. And she was absolutely infected with the disease that we have,

the passion for speed in her case of boats. But when I did a bit more digging,

and this is kind of I want to talk about it today, she was an early she was a recipient

in 1980 of the Seagrave Trophy. Did anyone know what Seagrave Trophy is?

Yes. Seagrave Trophy for those of our listener and viewership,

all of our colonies and dominions across the world and other parts of the world as well.

The Seagrave Trophy was awarded. I'm trying to find my notes on this. I don't get it wrong. Here we go.

It's in honor of Sir Henry Seagrave, who was first person, I think he held the world land

speed record and the world water speed record at the same time. He sadly died,

as is often the way in these things, whilst attempting a new record. And his wife, Lady Seagrave,

commissioned a trophy and an award to be offered in perpetuity, now administered by the RAC club

in Palmel, to mark those carrying on his legacy of a spirit of adventure. And I think it's a spirit

of adventure, which is at the heart of our passion for motorsport and cars and adventure,

and the road less traveled and all those kind of things. And I think it is inspiring. And I think

it's at the heart of all that. And I just thought I'd share with you some of the examples of people

who have been awarded the Seagrave Trophy. So it was first awarded. It's a beautiful trophy.

It's a beautiful trophy. You can see it in, I've occasionally sent you guys pictures when

Motorsport UK has board meetings. We have one every summer. We have one in June coming up.

And we are very privileged to use the Seagrave Room in the RAC club on Palmel, which has just got,

I mean, just wonderful trophies, a picture of Sir Henry. So the people that, so Fiona Gore,

Lady Aaron, she was awarded it in 1980 for becoming the first woman to achieve more than 100

miles per hour on Lake Windermere. Richard Noble was awarded in 1983 for the World

Land Speed Record. Richard Branson was awarded in 1986 for being the first person to,

well, the breaking the blue ribbon, the speedboat across the Atlantic. In 1992,

Nigel Mansel and Frank Williams were awarded the Seagrave Trophy for the 1992 Constructors

and Drivers World Championship. Colin McCrae in 1995, first British winner of the World

Championship. Damon Hill, the first son of a former F1 World Champion, also won it.

Andy Green in 1997 for Supersonic World Landscape Record. Joey Dunlop in 2000,

posthumously for all of his achievements. And there's a whole stream of motorcycling here.

Our friend, your particular friend, Chris, John McGinnis,

was awarded the Seagrave Trophy in 2015. Was he? How cool. I had no idea.

He's the kind of guy who would never ever say that, doesn't he? He really is. Say again?

Just saying, John is just the kind of person he would never tell you something like that.

The most famous trophy in Get For Speed, John is never going to mention that.

Alamut Nish, now running Audi F1, has won it twice in 2008 for exceptional

endeavour in motorsport and 2013 for being the first Britain to win the Tourist Trophy,

Le Mans 24 Hours and the WEC Championship in the same season. More recently,

Billy Munger was awarded it for his response and recovery from his awful accident.

In 2023, the Birchells, Ben and Tom, won it for an outstanding TT

ship on their sidecar in the Alamut. They are amazing, those two.

Amazing. And it's not awarded every year. The most recent recipient, which we were

asked for our opinion on as motorsport UK board. And we were all unanimous that Nick Tandy,

who again, Chris, you know, was a recipient in 2024, being the first person to win the top

four 24-hour races around the world, Le Mans, Daytona, Nurburgring and Spa.

So, because I read a news story at the weekend about an Ireland and Loch Lomond being the home

of waterbees being for sale, it sort of sparked that thought about this eccentric, yes, she was

absolutely a fully paid member of the aristocracy, but she had the disease that we have.

And when I pulled that thread, and I looked through all of the winners, the award

nominations for the Seagrave Trophy, I thought it's an absolute, just

fanfare of extraordinary individuals who everybody could take inspiration from.

The award in 2022 was made to a 17-year-old boy,

Mac Rutherford, became the youngest person to fly around the world solo.

Land, air and sea, cars, motorsport, aviation, water motorsports, they're all kind of part

of our passion. So, God bless her soul, Lady Aaron, Fiona Gore and her waterbees.

So, if you want to kind of share in that, and you've got the necessary, please do go and buy

the island in Loch Lomond that Kirsty Young and her husband are selling, and join the passion.

Limey, okay, follow that, Lil Clifford.

It's quite difficult to follow that, but I'm going to talk very briefly about my brother, Trevor.

Life is about contrast, isn't it? So, Lady Aaron and the Seagrave Trophy to my brother,

Trevor, you know, it's always difficult to pin down where we got this bug from. I think we probably

need to dig deeper into that at some point, don't we? Because I can't really put my finger on it.

I sort of felt that I was born with this love, because no one really ever sort of

crushed hard against the door for me to get excited about cars. It was always there.

I mentioned Top Trump, so I remember, you know, I mentioned seeing the first V12

V-Type down my road walking to school. We've all got those tiny little glimpses of memories,

haven't we? But it felt like it was always there, but if there was a person,

it would be my brother, Trevor. As I've mentioned before, I've got four brothers,

three brothers, lucky now. Three brothers. There's four of us, but I am one of them. I am not my own

brother. So, in fact, there is three. And we had a bit of a bumpy start, or certainly I did, because,

you know, our father passed away very young. So, it was all a bit sort of rubbish for a

but Trevor, who is the closest to me, so he would have been 17 when I was

four or five, because as I've said before, I was a bit of an accent. He was always the guy that I

looked up to and had all this sort of driving around in a bond bug, you know. I don't even think

he owned it, but he certainly was driving around in one. So, if anyone got me into it, it was him.

And he had about four jobs. He worked as a panel beta. I used to go and help him spray

cars in a garage, try and carry the oxyacetylene torches around with him when he was doing his

welding. It was always an escape for me. It was always an exciting place to go and just hang out

with Trevor when I was 789 years old. So, if anyone, if there was a human, it would be

him that helped me on my journey of car addiction. Yeah. I'm ruminating and reconsidering my answer

now. Manish, go on. You were the baby, weren't you, Neil? For sure, yeah.

The family. So, and what, but none of your other family were into cars?

No, Trevor was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, they were all boys of the 70s. So, you know, we

used to hang out in Hillman, Minx's and Mark, you know, my father had a Mark III Cortina that we had

to sort of figure out what we would do. And my mum had a Morris Traveller. There was always cars around,

you know, Hillman Avengers. Yeah. So, there was always cars around. My mum bought a

four door, very rare, PCR924M Mark I escort from Hendy Lennox. Hendy Lennox. Yeah, in Ferrum.

So, there was always car chat going on, but Trevor had a career in cars. So, I used to go and help him,

basically. Yeah, funny. Where did your addiction come from? I really had to ruminate over this one.

This was really tough. You know, occasionally, Mr Cooper, you said that a question that we ask

inadvertently hits a nerve. And you become quite emotional about it. And I, you know,

an immediate answer just didn't come to me with this. And I realized it was just sort of

provincial Britain in the kind of 70s, was all about football. You know, and just as in a way,

what you've answered, Chris, is about, actually, you haven't, your passion speed, you didn't really

mention cars. Cars were on the side. It was about speed and Neil's answer in a practical way. I guess

my, my passion is really Formula One. And I was thinking, you know, this made me think,

no one liked it when I was a kid. It was all about football. It was always about the culture

of football. It was on TV every two weeks, just about. And, you know, I used to buy

sort of when I could, Grand Prix International. And it's not exactly the most stocked magazine,

but it, and it just really, really, really reminded me about kind of our idiosyncrasies as

people. If you wanted to be passionate about cars when I was a kid, there was no tribe.

There was no top gear in the same way that we have it. There was no entertainment around cars.

You really had to find it. And I didn't have friends who I would spend Sunday afternoon with,

watching Grand Prix or, or, you know, get into school on a Monday morning and go,

did you watch that race? Did you see that overtake? It wasn't like that until my very,

very late teens. And I think it's left me, the big bad taste it's left me with is I have a real

problem with football. No matter how I watch football, where what I just

associate it with just kind of the most vile kind of human characteristics. And it's very weird

because my son absolutely loves football, doesn't like motor racing. And I used to find it very

difficult, actually, early on, even sort of taking him to football and watching football. But

I actually have an answer for this. You know what it is? This is mad. It was Murray Walker.

He's my absolute inspiration. I realized that would turn on the TV

and 10 minutes before a Grand Prix, that man would paint a picture over the lot of the last two

weeks. And in the last two weeks, they're my Claren team of, you know, and he would do that,

he would do that in 10 minutes, and have you ready to watch. And then, you know, he and James,

with that kind of fantastically maniacal and also considered commentary, would transport me

to Monaco, or to Monza, or to Las Vegas. I mean, basically, Murray Walker was my TARDIS,

he was my 747. He was my everything into this amazing, amazing world. And, you know, just

I'll just kind of just a little, you know, end point to the story. I didn't meet him for a very,

very long time. And then what happened was, when we were making Senna, and we had the premiere,

Universal asked me who we thought we should invite. And obviously, you know, Bernie was at the top

of the list, because we did the archive deal with them. And I said, let's invite Murray Walker.

And I got a phone call. This is absolutely true. Two days later saying, oh, he lives at the sort

of really bottom end of Petersfield. And, you know, we understand he's close to sort of 85,

or whatever Murray was at the time. And they said, oh, it's going to be far too expensive

to send a car and bring him up. And I was like, I'm sorry. And so I spoke to this wonderful

woman called Sarah Jane, her working title, and she was head of production now. And I said,

Sarah, I think Murray's got to come, hasn't he? And she said, of course, he's got to come.

And I said, well, you know, this is how much a sort of proper car would cost to send, you know,

down there, pick him up, bring him back, and then send him back down again. And she said,

fine, I'm going to charge it to Nanny McPhee. And that's what she did. And it was fantastic.

So we have the biggest British hit. And it has Murray Walker. And it was wonderful. He came,

he watched it. And I remember as he was driving back, he wound his window down and said,

Dumanish, you made passionate about Formula One. Thank you. He literally weighed him. Thank you.

What a great movie. That's cool. He was gone.

Nanny McPhee. Do you know that my girlfriend sometimes calls me Nanny McPhee because one of

my teeth sticks out a bit. She calls me Nanny McPhee, which I think is a lovely touch.

I find this one tricky because I've answered it quite a few times in my life. Because if you

present a car show about cars, you get asked it quite a lot. It's a standard question from journalists

in the sort of non specialist media. They said, where did it start? And then you write a book,

you have to write an entire chapter about that. So I've been over it. And I'd be careful that I

don't undo anything I've said before. But I've slightly altered my view of this over the last week.

And also listening to your answers. So the obvious answer is a bit of a violin solo.

There wasn't really anyone. And I think the reality is that as Manish so beautifully put it,

you were on your own slightly. I'm a bit younger than you guys. But I didn't have friends at school

that liked cars. It wasn't encouraged. I didn't really have anyone else in my peer group that

liked cars. So I didn't have an obvious person to talk to. Football was everything. But also

because I went to a pro school rugby and hockey and other things. But football was the game of the

masses. So I didn't even I really didn't like that at all. And I had this wonderful mother

who had raced cars. And I love that it was it was amazing and something that I just

dined out on and I would tell people at length about how my mother had raced cars. But actually

she didn't really talk about cars, like all racing drivers. She didn't like cars that much.

She liked having a nice car. She drove it like a Wally, whatever she had, she drove like a Wally.

But I couldn't sit with her and go, Oh, did you know that Ford have just changed the

Cortina into a bar of soap called the Sierra? It's got a CD factor of naught point, whatever.

I had no one to talk to about that. And she really wasn't someone I could talk to about that.

So and on the back on the other side of that, my father almost was so anti car chat that it was

I was disincentivised to talk about them. And I knew he really didn't want me talking about cars.

So I had my toy cars. I had car brochures. Remember those you'd have you'd have a stack

of car brochures. And I reread them. I would just sit and reread the words about the BMW 3 series

over and over again. That's all I did. And I'd know the colour combinations you could have

with paint, exterior, what trim levels you could have. I just memorised all of that. I

couldn't memorise my schoolwork, but I could memorise that. It's a bit weird. But the reality is,

it was my father that I have to credit with helping me here. Because in March 1982, we went to his

office on a Saturday morning, probably to Nixon biscuits or whatever he was doing. And I was left

in the car outside like I'd often be on small streets in the centre of Bristol. And I think he

looked at me and thought I'm going to be a bit of time here. I need to keep him amused. And there

was a little one of those tiny little sort of kiosk open. It wasn't a shop. It was like

someone had a display of magazines on a road. You used to have the whole time. He didn't have it

in London now. But it was weird. And he bought whatever he could find. It was a car magazine.

It was the April 1982 edition of What Car. And I think something utterly boring was on the cover.

And he handed me this thing. And that's where mine began. I still have that copy of a magazine.

And I just sat there and thought, this is my world. I want to be a part of this.

The same copy. Not a replacement copy. The same copy.

Yeah, of course I have the same copy. That's my moment in time. I can't ever get rid of it.

It's obviously falling apart. And I'd love to say it was something dramatic,

like a car magazine with a Daytona on the phone. It wasn't. It was What Car. I think it had a

Montego on the phone from memory. But I know it couldn't have been a Montego in 1982,

could it? It must have been in 1984. That was. Yeah, yeah, I can't I mean. But I think

it's fascinating to recall how insular it could be having a passion is that managed so beautifully

put it. If you weren't into football or one of the something that was in the public domain,

you didn't really have any way of talking to people. And that's why when people say is the

internet evil, I've got a bit of an issue with that. Because now, if you if someone likes cars,

and they hear us talk about the Seagrove trophy, and they're young, and they hear their parents

listen to this podcast, they can just Google Seagrove trophy, and they can go into that world

and find it. Whereas if you said to me in 82, you know, tell us all about the Alpha Sood, I had no

idea. Absolutely no idea. So I think, yeah, it was my it was buying that car magazine changed

everything for me. And after that, the voices that mattered were the people that wrote in the car

magazines. They were my Oracle. I didn't give a monkeys who the latest footballer was. I didn't

know who George Best was. I didn't watch football. But if you said to me, would you like to meet Steve

Cropley? I'd have fallen off my chair. I remember watching Steve Cropley on my first day of work

experience. I watched him walk from his long term E 38 BMW 728 I to the back door of the

auto car office. And I might as well have seen God. Yeah, because it I didn't believe these people

existed. So like all of you, I've got a weird way into it. I should be saying God rest her soul,

my mother, because she actually did so much more to nurture that and make me proud. But she didn't

buy me that car magazine. He did. So he gets the credit. And I think, I think, yeah, I have to

rewrite a chapter of a book now, won't I? Because I was going to say that bloody book. Yeah. Yeah.

I think I think to, if I may just say 30 seconds on today, the wonderful thing about today is it's

really much easier to find your gang. It's really, you know, social media understandably gets a bad

rap. But Instagram, particularly, you can, it's, you find wonderful friends and people that share

your passion and are as strange and as quirky as you. In fact, this podcast has given us access

to incredible people for me. And I think you have to celebrate the today, because we, when we were

kids, we wouldn't, we wouldn't have, it wouldn't have been so easy, but you can find your tribe now

much better. And it's really good. Yeah, it's good. I agree. Before the internet reminds us all in

the comments on wherever they listen to this, I have, again, not answered the question that I've

posed. And the reason why I went the way I did with it was because it was about somebody that you

know, that you sort of didn't realize had that passion and that extraordinary spirit of venture.

And sort of the wormhole I went down by looking at all of, I printed them all out last night,

I mean, go to the RAC club website and look at a couple of drop downs of all of the winners

in their story. But when I thought about actually listening to you, Chris, okay, so where did it

start? And, and it's very, very similar, actually, it was a copy of what car? A few years, it would

have been the seventies. It's a copy of what car that one of my father's colleagues, he was an engineer

and he worked in an engineering business involved in mining engineering. Lots of engineers were

interested in cars. My dad never really was. He was interested in fixing them. And it was excited

by able to fix them and to buy a cheaper car and make it run longer because he had the skills to

fix it and mend it. But I distinctly remember a copy of what car appearing and I have this in

my memory somewhere that said, one of the chaps at work, one of the blokes at work, thought you

might like to read this. And I got captivated, my brother and I, by all of the data in the back,

all the nought 60 times and you get that nought 60 in the top speed thing. And how many cylinder

data and all that, all that lovely sort of data stuff. And you sort of read the words and then,

and that was it. And then motor magazine. We were always originally, my brother and I,

we were motor magazine rather than auto car. And I remember a bit like your Steve Crop,

and I never got to, clearly, I didn't have the extraordinary start to working life that you

did. But I do remember this sort of otherworldly sense and feeling when the then it would have been

like 70s, early 80s, the then editor of motor magazine, because I, by that point, if you read

these things, you realize they're a long term test cars, which sound even more exciting because

you get to live with this thing. And the editor of motor magazine in an article announced that he

had a lotus elite as his long term. And I just, I was overcome with the exoticism and excitement of

what must that be like? It was, that was it really. It was the magazine was the

the person you could talk to without talking to them, because it was very, very similar. It's

yeah. And I think Neil, you're right. It is for me, the car magazine was, was really the wardrobe.

It opened the door to Arnia, didn't it? It was, it's where you went to hide. And I suppose that

paints like the unfair picture of very lonely children who've been, you know, rejected from

society because they don't like association football. There was a bit of that. There was a

bit of that. I like football. You're allowed to like two things at once.

Well, that's a, that's a topic. I'll write that down. You're allowed to. Okay. Let's, let's,

we've done a few minutes on that. Here we go. Don't look back, comma, sell it with an

exclamation mark. That's unusual that we have an exclamation mark on the agenda. I don't know who

wrote that. I'm going to go first to Neil Clifford. I wrote it. We're having, we're having a, we're

having a deep, deep podcast today, I think. I think on the surface is a very simple question of

if, if, if you don't look back, which means for me, obviously at the petrol station,

when you go to the petrol station, you fill up your car and do you look back? Do you look back

at your car? And if you don't, you don't love it enough. There's something wrong with it

in my head. And that I, I use that filter often. Clearly I've got a big addiction and I have too

many bloody cars, but some, if I don't look back, I don't think the car is perfect for me. And I

then consider whether that car should stay around. But I think it's for me deeper than this because

it's an emotional connection to an object. And it doesn't have to be pretty. I think that's the

key bit for me. It doesn't necessarily have to be the most gorgeous, bloody F12 or a lovely little

Mazda MX-5 that's perfect from every angle. It's not just about the visual elements of the car,

which of course, for me, cars are, the large majority of the love of cars is that, you know,

I'm not into sort of driving at nine tenths or being able to understand whether tires make a

difference and all that shit. It is about aesthetics quite often with me, but it doesn't mean the car

has to be pretty. It means, do you have an emotional connection? And can, can you be in love with a car?

Can you? I know it's quite deep, but it's a separate topic. But you know what? It is part

of my looking back thing because that Mark I escort in, whenever it was, 1984, 3, 4, was my

TARDIS was my route into escapism, freedom, adulthood, music in the car, which is so critical,

particularly when you're young. You can just escape from everyone and put music on and you're on your

own. It doesn't matter if, I mean, actually the Mark I escort is a beautiful little thing, by the way.

But the fact that I, you know, you got a tenner off your mum and you put some petrol in and off

you went up to ports downhill or down the seafront and picked up your mates and you just sort of

drove around listening to to Pesh mode, that for me was everything. And that, and of course I looked

back because I was totally in love with that car. And then when, you know, the last, last point on

this, when I got that first company car, very, very lucky and I was 23, 1990, G-Redge, Renault 5

Raider, picked it up from Renault in ports within Milton. I didn't even have the money to put petrol

in. I didn't have the grade for a petrol car. So I had the car and I didn't have any money to

was put petrol in. It was such a sort of stupid situation. But you know, I wangled myself quite

early into what was, I've never achieved anything in my life as important as the day I picked up

that car. And you know, I've been very lucky. But that was my moment. It's all been slightly,

not downhill, of course, but that was my moment. That was the pinnacle, the fact that I had a brand

new car that no one else had farted in, no one else had driven. You know, it had great stereo.

It was the last of the tape. You know, Corrado took me to CD. It was the last of the tape,

but that was fine. And add the gadgets, add the electric windows, add all the numbers, add the

stats. I was given the keys by a salesman. It was just fantastic. And that car for me,

I used to look back at it for two or three minutes every time I filled it up with petrol,

because it gave me everything. And therefore, don't look back, sell it. Of course, you have to

fall in. You have to be having an emotional connection with the car. So it's not just about

looks. Looks really are quite important to me. And I think they are to all of us. It's part of the

cocktail, isn't it? But yeah, it's a big thing that looking back, even if it's ugly, if you love

it, it's fine. Blimey, very well put, Neil. That was lovely. Let's go to Manish.

So the way I read this question was, don't look back, sell it, as in, you know,

two opportunities to do that. So I decided I would bring something of a Mr Cooper

into answering this question. So go with me, because this is extremely disconnected.

But I hope I can make it relevant in some slightly tangential way at the end.

I completely stumbled across something called the First Overland from 1955 to 1956. And it's

also known as the Oxford Cambridge Far Eastern Expedition. Six young men from Oxford and Cambridge,

I think it was five from Oxford, one from Cambridge, maybe on the other way around, took two 1955

long wheelbase series one Land Rovers, 86 inch wheelbase, modified them with a larger fuel tank,

beefed up the suspension, used aluminium panels, and drove from London to Singapore.

And they filmed much of this. And there's a point to this. And I think there's something,

you can see this on YouTube, and we will put the link up, it's in two parts. These,

there's something so romantic about men in their early 20s. They're all super skinny,

completely lean, very strong. They grow beards because that's what you do when you go on journeys

like this. And what they did was they went through France, Monaco, Germany, Austria,

Yugoslavia, Greece, Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Nepal, Burma,

Thailand, Malaya, as it was then, and finally arrived in Singapore. It's 18,000 miles,

averaging approximately 16 miles an hour. And if you watch this video, you'll see things that you

cannot believe in Syria. I saw, did you guys know about something called NEN buses, N-A-I-R-N

buses? They took modified, it's a British invention, they took Buicks and Cadillacs,

modified them into what can only be described as trucks, American trucks. Imagine that connected

to an American diner at the back, so slightly aerodynamic, and passengers went from Damascus

to Baghdad across desert roads and these boys kept up with these NEN trucks. It's incredible,

when they got to bridges in Burma, they had machetes, they'd have to test, test

these bridges, they'd hack away at these bridges, you see them driving over rickety bridges,

bandits in Burma, so they were accompanied by the army till the army cars broke down,

but these landrovers carried on. I mean, it's the most romantic thing you've ever seen. And

the reason why I mention this today is because the podcast is coming out on Friday, which has

made the eighth, and this would not have been possible, nor would filming this, had it not been

for rotary cameras, so clockwork cameras that were pioneered and first used by Richard Attenborough.

And what am I saying? David Attenborough is going to be 100 today.

They could have been Richard. He was a young producer at the BBC, he was a young producer

at the BBC, so Friday he will be 100, and he bet on these boys. They just came to him and he

would like the BBC are supporting you. Here are a couple of clockwork cameras, here's a chunk of money,

go and do us proud. So I know I'm not answering the question, but I've got a lump in my throat,

so I'm going to stop. That's brilliant. Fabulous, fabulous. I want to go and watch that now.

So Link's coming up now. Here you go, that's where you watch it. Go and watch it now.

Chris Cooper. So I think about the petrol station

moment too much, really. And I think about where can I, which pump do I park at? So as I walk away,

I can still see it. So I tend to like to, if you've got like, you know, the rows of pumps and there's

like two or even three, I know, two or even three pumps in a row, I want to park at the one at the

front. So as I walk away, I can see it. So no one's parked in front of it. Because there's that moment

if you like looking back. But in my weird head, there are some things that get in the way.

Is the car clean? If the car isn't clean, it will nag me. It's not looking its best as I walk

into the shop, the kiosk thing to go and pay the bill.

God forbid, if I've curbed a wheel, I can't look at it. It's like a dog that's pooed in the

corner of the kitchen. I can't look at it. I can't, I know it's there. I can't look at it.

Is it, is it love? I think it is love. I'm not sure it's in love, but it's, it's definite sort

of love. And I think I mentioned this before that a car you do happy things in is a really,

really big part of that. So if you don't look back, there are times I don't look back when I think,

oh, I've curbed a wheel or there's just something about it. It's something not visible. I know

that the tracking on the steering is not right. It's in my head, it's not quite the car it needs

to be. I can't look back at it because I've let it down and I need to fix it. And until I do that,

I can't fully enjoy it and absorb it because I know there's something I need to do that I

haven't got around to doing. The service is overdue. That gets in my head. So that,

that look back moment is full of complexity and emotion and sort of the frustrations of life and

getting in the way of, you know, doing all that you should for your car or your cars.

Have you ever saw something, Neil, because you think I haven't looked back on it,

it's gone the moment it's passed? Yeah, yeah.

I could sort of... Yeah, a one-on-one Bentley Continental GT3R. Honestly, it's true. It's for

sale now. I've seen it for sale again. Here it is. And it's done no miles since I sold it. And you

know what? When I bought that car, I thought, oh my God, that's so amazing. It's such an amazing

spec. It's perfect. It's not the white ones. It's not the black ones. I adore it. It's, you know,

blah, bullshit, bullshit. I didn't look back at it. Why not? Because. I tell you, that's such a good

question because it's got that wanky spoiler. And I didn't like the spoiler. The spoiler ruins that car.

Did wonder when you had that. I thought, it's got the spoiler on it. I can't ask him what he thinks.

I did honestly consider, because obviously it's not going to make any difference, is it? Because

I'm not going 200 miles an hour around Milbrook. I did really consider, and this is a podcast

chat, isn't it, slight little modifications to new cars just to improve them because there's one

little thing that's annoying. That's quite a long subject. But I did consider taking that off.

But then I thought, if I take it off and I still don't love it, it's a right bloody

palaver because then it's difficult to sell. You're going to have to put it back on. People

have seen the car without the spoiler. So then it's not all original. The paint's not original.

So then you get caught in a EC Escher trap of maze that you're fucked, aren't you? You can't get out.

So in the end, those thoughts, that can compute in about 10 seconds in our heads, can't it?

You go through all the processes of what you could do and then you come to a point of saying, no,

it's got to be sold. And that was it. Bloody hell, this is so complicated. By the way, before then,

it's a question to all people that host a podcast, how do you stroke your dog under the table when

he approaches you? That's looking like something really bad is going on. So the look back is a bit

of a, yeah, a bit of a Pandora's box for me that because it reminds me that I think I had a traumatic

episode early on in my car owning life. And I never really allowed myself to fall in love again,

because my first car was stolen, I poured all my love into it. And it was, it was pinched and I

couldn't really get my head around it. In fact, that feeds back into the previous conversation,

which was, I couldn't explain to people how hurt I was, because they couldn't understand how I could

be so in love with an inanimate object. I mean, I was weird or making it up or seeking attention,

but I was, it was a total bereavement. And I don't think I've ever really committed

in quite the same way since, as everyone does when they've been hurt, you don't go there again,

do you? I think in the context of looking back at it, I mean, it's such a powerful phrase, but it's

so meaningful. Because to be in love with the motor car, and to have a passion like we do that

many people wouldn't understand, that's a key part of it is turning around and looking at it.

And it's, it's powerful because you know that if anyone saw you doing it, you'd look a bit sad,

but you don't care. Even people lacking self-confidence, if they love their car enough

to turn around and look at it, even if people they know it might make them look a bit silly,

it's one of those few areas of life where it's a bit of a two finger wave, I'm going to look at

my car, don't care what you think or not. And in the modern era, we get one of these things and we

take photos of our cars. I've had people go, I've been taking photos of my cars and people have

gone, why are you taking a photo of your car so sad? And I'll just say, because I love my car.

Yeah. So it is fascinating. But I don't have quite the discipline you guys have in this area,

because I do think it's too harsh a cut off or a denominator to say if it doesn't pass the sort of

turnaround test, it goes because there are cars in our lives that don't have that wow factor and

they're not really looking to be admired. You know, how many times did I turn around and look

at my beloved Land Cruiser, Amazon V8? I didn't really. It was just a part of my life. It was

just an amazing tool that did a job that I appreciated. And I adored it as much as probably

more than many other cars. But it wasn't an object for me. I didn't objectify it by looking at it

in that way. So where I absolutely have a problem is if a vehicle lets me down in a certain way

or in a certain circumstance, it's kind of gone. And if it's if it fails, failing to complete a

journey, it's a bit of a problem for me. Even if it's old, I can be quite irrational and just

it's gone. And it's a bit like, I feel like a very, very brutal friend. You know, you know,

when in the playground that control all the friendships, that bastard, you come to school

one day and they wouldn't talk to you and you'd be like, what have I done? They were just not a

very nice piece of work who got off on controlling your emotions. I feel like that person sometimes

because I go to the shed and there'll be a car in the corner and it's looking at me going,

take me out for a drive, daddy. And I'm like, no, you've balls this up. You didn't work last time.

You're out. You're out the door. And I do feel sometimes a terrible pang of guilt

that I've done that. But the cull for me is not completing a journey. I think to turn around

and look and not feel something isn't enough for me to sell a car. But I totally get

how important that can be. And also, if you're looking at your absolute doyen vehicles,

you know, if you're talking about things that you love, if you do turn around and you see it

differently, well, that's the same as a schism in a marriage, isn't it really? If at one point you

look at someone in a different way, it's hard to come back from that. And I think that's happened

as well. I've definitely had my own chug on. I'm not looking at you the same way anymore. Is it

because the new ones come out? Is it because that ride height's always niggled me? And I sort of put

it to one side? Is it because of the way the last journey went or didn't go that I no longer like

you as much? It is amazing. You can draw this back to the concept of just turning around and

looking at your vehicle. But I do. And I suppose I also read this completely differently. And it

was only when you started answering it that I pivoted there. I thought it was don't look back

as in if you've got stuff from your past, don't look back, you know, flog it and move on. In other

words, have a clear out. So you're all the masters at writing things that can be interpreted in

several different ways. But that one, yeah, that look, I mean, you could write an entire book

called, you could, couldn't you? You could. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Okay. Voice control.

Why is it still shit? That is a complicated apostrophe there. But it works. It's, yeah,

oh my God, I mean, I don't even know where to begin with this. I can tell you now,

I've never owned a vehicle where I've used it. So let's go first to Chris Cooper.

I don't think it works. I don't think it's ever worked properly. I mean, it was a,

I won't say which vehicle it was, but I was in a vehicle recently,

particularly make a vehicle we think was bound to work.

And I said, I, it was a vehicle I hadn't driven much before. I hadn't redriven at all before.

But it had that little button on the steering wheel, with what looks like an outline of

the person's head with words coming out. I thought that must be the voice control button.

And it was, I was on, I was wrecking before we went to Gaiden, how to get there from a place

I knew we'd be beforehand. So I just thought, I wonder whether it recognizes Gaiden. So I pressed

the button and I thought, well, nothing tells you, how do you start this question? So I just said,

I pressed the button and I sort of paused for a bit. Maybe that's what put it off.

And I said navigation Gaiden. And the voice came out and said, I'm sorry, we don't have any contact

details from Gordon. I said, no, I don't want to telephone Gaiden. I want to get there. And in the

end, I started having like a chat GPT type conversation, pressing this button. And in the

end, it clearly said, I'm sorry, we don't understand the instruction. And it turned itself off. And I

know 20 or years ago, on top gear, they had a slightly sort of fetish as to how

he knows who was, you think, there are so many other aspects of technology and cars and life,

which has got better, but sort of that, I want to go somewhere. Why are you looking for a telephone

number? I don't understand. And chat GPT work. So why is it, is it a running joke? Is it, haha,

let's put that little button on the steering wheel and just wire it up differently. So it says,

Oh, yes, yes. You know, I'm going to Margate or Broadstairs. Oh,

what service would you like your car to be booked in for, sir? It's just like, no, it's just,

am I, have I got this wrong? I just being old and Fuddy Duddy was it? Do you think that she

were? Because I'm with you, Chris, I don't really use it anymore because it's frustrating.

I know. I'm going to ask Neil to answer this while I just quickly check why my dog's walking

around out there. One second, all right. Yeah. Well, when did these buttons start arriving? Sort

of early 2000s. Yeah, it was the big jump. It was the big jump forward and the so-called

technology. It was a bit like the head up display. All of these new things started arriving, didn't

it? And we thought, Oh, you know, it's a brave new world now. We're all going to be sort of,

it's all going to be so much better in the cockpit. And fundamentally, they are all a bit

shit. But I would say since carplay, carplay to me has made a difference because it isn't

the technology that's in built within the car, those silly buttons with the mouth, the face coming

out. They never, ever, ever work. And even God forbid when people say to you, Oh, you know,

you can open the sunroof by just doing this. They've got what I don't even know what German

BMW is it or Mercedes, they've got the hand control thing that you don't even know.

And they utter shit as well. But for me, the Hayes Siri does work. And I think that is quite

clever. And when you do the Hayes Siri, and you get that that voice that comes back,

I think that's really quite cool. And I use that. And it normally works. Please could you play

Radiohead on Spotify? It works. Okay, so the Apple Apple carplay have nailed that there's been a

jump forward on voice control. The car companies never nailed it. But I think carplay possibly

has made it work. Very possible. Manish, have you ever used voice activated controls in a car?

No, my two cars have dials and not digital boards. Neither has carplay. I do have a Bluetooth system

in both, which allows my phone to kind of, you know, plug into the speakers by an amp.

But that's about it. What I did, though, was I found these three things which I thought in some

weird way gives you the spectrum of what's available. Inside EVs report that a Lincoln

co Z 20, when a driver was driving it in China, he asked the internal lights to switch off at night.

So that he could see out of the window and the car switched off the external lights and he had

an accident. And so they're not very happy about that bit of software. There's a hilarious thing

on Instagram where a guy gets into his AMG Mercedes and he says, Mercedes computer.

What do you think of BMWs? And the computer answers, I think of BMWs. As you think of BMWs,

otherwise you wouldn't be driving a Mercedes, sir, which I think is very witty. But the best one

is the BBC reported that Sarah's I think is that how you pronounce it Chinese car company,

they have patented a sliding toilet that's going to come out of the passenger seat.

Yeah, these exhausts and everything else. So there'll be no notches fumes. It has a

flushing system. Apparently blow dries urine. It dries it dry. Yep. And the whole thing will

be voice controlled. What could go wrong? I ask. I think it's blow drying something else,

not the urine. No, no, no, they made a point that it's a hot wire blow dry system to make sure

that there is no urine at all in the pan. I always say, what could possibly go wrong?

I mean, you think about, you know, you probably you probably have to come up with your own phrase,

don't you? For the thing to come out and the thing to Sarah's, I'm going to do a number two.

I don't intend to stop. Here we go. What heating elements required to evaporate a litre of wee?

No, I think the leader of we's going to basically go into the tank. It's so that the actual bowl

itself. Okay, right. So sorry. Okay. Much as I love sort of reducing this podcast to the

the juvenile, I'm not going to go there because I that's ridiculous.

Fading dead. I don't get these things at all. But I'd like to be positive. I'm doing my nail

clip and put my positive hat on. I'm not going to winch. I'm going to tell you two ways in which

this technology has worked for me. The first is vocariously, because I was recently filming on

tenor reef, which if you didn't know it is the windiest place on the planet. I went there.

Lots of people go on holiday there. I don't really get it. It was it was a lovely place.

The sun came out, but it was so windy, you couldn't stand up. So if you don't,

if you're not into windsurfing, I don't know why you'd go there. Anyhow, I was collected by a lovely

woman in a Mercedes V class, and she used her voice control all the time. And it was great to

watch someone who actually it's always good to watch someone operating a product in a way it was

intended. So she had completely embraced this. The computer obviously liked her voice and everything

she did was she just did it by voice and the car responded. And it looked seamless and brilliant.

Do I think for a minute it would have liked my voice or I would have had the patience to use it

not for a second, but it was great to watch someone use it correctly.

The other the other situation which really did make me very grateful for it was I was in a

BMW of some sort, a very one of the new ones that just has the massive screen that goes right the

way across the dashboard. And you have a sort of you got a home button and to the right of it is

the squares and the squares bring up all the apps for the car. There are 100 maybe more and it's just

not safe to search these things or look for something when you are driving just you can't

it may be much safer to sit and text someone on your phone because it's so complicated. And I

thought I think I was looking for something quite specific like tire pressure or monitoring or something.

And I thought I'll press the speaking mouth button and I'll ask for it and it found it for me.

So actually in the increasingly de-buttoned world of the car interior one can find buried

functionality in a way that you wouldn't otherwise. So those are the useful things and I also have to

sort of revert to type and say that I think for the most part it's an absolute waste of money

and I don't get it. I've never got it at all but it's been going for a long long time. You get

into cars that are 20 years old and they've got the speaking mouth button. And I've never actually

met anyone beyond a couple of taxi drivers that actually use it have you?

No, no, no, no. It's the only way it's the way you connect to car play. The only reason you

use that button is quite often car play says that you have to hold that down.

Yeah, okay. I suppose when I read that on the agenda I thought I've got no interest in that at

all. It's one of those ones where I thought they're not interested.

But have you ever been on a car test, you know, one of these sort of new car BMW Mercedes things

where they tell you how amazing these things or the hand-controlly thing to open the sunroof?

Mate, I stopped doing car launches of stuff like that probably before that came.

That's sort of a post-lockdown thing really. I remember having an S-class lady sitting in

and the driver, good old Mike the driver, was sort of doing this with his hand and

was going off and he was like, what's going on here? It was confusing. But yeah, that's another

subject. I do remember when car makers try and demonstrate their new technologies and it goes

wrong, there was obviously the live feed where Volvo put out a live feed to watch a car of its

do a reverse part manoeuvre live autonomously. That was a long time ago. So we all sat and watched

on sort of 240p on a screen in the office and it just drove straight on and I think it

reversed straight into another car. It was like a monster python sketch. It was terrible.

And the Mazda Demio launch stands to mine as well. It was in Berlin and they wanted to

demonstrate a new navigation system it came with. So they inputted this into the Mazda Demio and

you just drove off and none of us made it back for the meal. Because we were all just completely

lost and had to find the hand line going back. It was just hopeless. In Germany, I love that.

It was again, Monty Python jump of the 100 meters for people with no sense of direction when it

goes off and it was like that. Demio spread around Berlin. But yeah, they never, it's a really good

point Neil. I never had a car maker encourage us to use that function. It was there. They never

really encouraged us to. Okay, let's move on to mispronounced Carnate. I'm going to go straight

to Mr. Bentayaga because he's the king of this. And I think, and I love the way sometimes Neil

will just plow on with a name because that's what he said. The name is what it says in your head,

not what's on the back of the car. So tell us how you feel about this, Neil.

Yeah. I suppose, I suppose it's the, it's the dyslexia, basically. And therefore,

words come out differently for me often. And yes, I've merged the Bentayga with Balenciaga.

So I've put both of my two little worlds of the fashion industry and my love of cars.

I sometimes merge them into one and it comes out a funny word. Often with dyslexia, you know,

I say to my wife, how do you spell where? And bless her, you know, she was a librarian when

I met her. And now she's become much more tolerant and doesn't laugh. You can't see words. If you

try to spell things or you're trying to write things, you just can't see them. You have no idea how

often words are said or pronounced. So yes, I do sometimes struggle. Trying to think of,

you know, it was, it was always a challenge. Pinaforena was always one of school. Pina,

because actually you never really heard anyone say it correctly. So for years and years and years,

you obviously thought that your pronunciation was correct because no one was very interested in this

sort of very, very long Italian sexy word. It's often the foreign words, isn't it?

You know, and actually, I think some brands take the piss a little bit really. I mean,

they make it just too pure a sangue. I mean, come on, did you really need to call it that?

Pure a sandwich.

I'm sure to an Italian, you know, this 12-cylindry thing, I've never attempted

to call that the correct name. I think it's a slight hindrance when you overcomplicate a car's

name, because aren't you, you're cutting off the dyslexics.

Yeah, but it's fascinating. I think to a much like the spectrum chat we all had,

sometimes off air. I think to some degree, we're all slightly dyslexic and that can happen

when you're tired, you know, as you become fatigued. I think some of this does creep in,

you could be 100% functioning and be the most lucid, literate person ever. But you'll have

moments where you'll misread something. You will, you just will. And car names are a bit of a banana

skin. Like when Lamborghini launched the Murcielago, I remember thinking, unless someone tells me how

to say that, I don't know how to say it. I don't have a working, you know, sort of lexicon of bull's

names. I just don't, I don't have that in my head. So someone's going to have to tell me how you say

that. And of course, then you'd say, you'd get it slightly wrong. They'd say Murcielago. And you

had to sort of do that, that Spanish lispy thing. But we don't speak like that in Bristol. We don't.

A Kuntash, Kuntash was always one, wasn't it? That, you know, for at least three decades,

it was Countash. Exactly. And I think, actually, you look at it, it's Countash.

Actually, I think if you have to ask how a car name is pronounced, it fails the basic test of

being a car name. Yes. For me. Yes. So Chris Cooper, sorry, carry on.

Is this the Nestle, Nestle's thing? Do you remember the Milky Bar kid when we were growing up?

Yeah. And the song was Nestle's Milky Bar. And then at some point, because we just,

we didn't know what Nestle's was, because it was, we thought just assumed it was like

Cadbury's or round trees or whatever. And at some point, somebody from Switzerland,

where Nestle is her quarter and originated, must have thought, when are we going to tell them

they're saying it wrong? It's Nestle. So presumably the British part of Nestle,

how many years did the technical get around that, must have thought, okay, we're going to change it,

we're not going to change anything else. We're going to have the same advert,

the latest version of that young kid off the production line with the little white hat,

the Milky Bars are on me. And they just crowbarred the word Nestle into a rhythm which wasn't

designed for it. Porsche or Porsche? That's Porsche. But equally, but if you say Porsche,

so what? Does it matter? Yeah, I did for years. Yeah,

Porsche. Have you lived in Essex? You've got to say Porsche. I mean, it doesn't sound like a

Porsche. The one that I've noticed most recently that has made me think, oh, for goodness sake,

why is it literally in the last six months that Skoda, which we all got used to,

we could, we could work that out, you could look at it. It's not Skoda anymore, it's Skoda.

When did that happen? I can't cope. There's, there's a lot of it out there.

There's a lot of it out there, though. And I suppose, unless, unless you're told your sort of

given direction from the daily car companies appear, you're going to refer back to the inner

voice in your head refers back to the young kid reading the car magazine. That was the difficulty

for me was that no one told you how to say these things. And until you went to an office where

people dealt with them professionally, I realized when I went to AutoCast for the first time,

that I was saying half these things wrong. I really was. But then how, how do you say

facile vega if you've never heard someone say it? It could be anything. a

faece or vega. It could be a, I have no idea. And I think there's a whole load of this out there.

And as it becomes more and more difficult to give a car a unique name, they've, you know,

there were accidents on cars. I remember someone was saying, well, you've not acknowledged the

accident. And I say, you, you've not acknowledged secondary rider prick. So I, but I don't,

I just don't really, yeah, none of us are really useful because you can't get, you can't get a

number wrong. Can you? That's right. That's true. Yeah. I still think Benz, you answer this one.

Sorry, Chris. I was just thinking maybe there is some kind of minor rosette we need to give out

to someone who really irritatedly pronounces all of these right, because there is just something

a bit wank about getting that exactly right for all the cars. He's been in Farina. He's a muschielago.

Well, you just want to slap someone who gets all right. When I was a kid, in that sort of isolated

way, I came across a Porsche via top trumps. And I remember I was seven and the poor parts really

easy to pronounce, isn't it? P O R, poor, poor, easy. But S C H E for a seven year old. What

is it? We encode human beings encode in these things called, called phonemes. So basically

monosyllabic little lump. So you look at S C H E. And so until I was 12, it was a porciche.

That's what I call them. I call them porciches. And I think my little homunculus whenever it's

especially a seventies Porsche. I go, that's a porciche. Of course it is.

It was an episode of Crown Court where they had a witness and he said he was driving a Lamborghini.

I mean, how do you know it's not a Lamborghini? How? No, it's not a Lamborghini. Exactly.

You're not. Okay. Pagani, H U A Y R A. Come on. I remember being told this one because I went to

get an early test car from the factory and I need coaching and it's a Huayra. Exactly. It's a Huayra.

It's like W I R E R, but with an H at the front. Huayra. But I would have looked at that and said

Huayra. He said Pagani Huayra. Why wouldn't you say that? I think when you're presenting the video,

revert to the one after the Zonda really, don't you? You sort of try and avoid saying that. You do.

Yeah. Very, very tricky. Very tricky. I think there should definitely be,

definitely a prize for someone who gets them all exactly right. There is satire to be found

in these areas as well. And let's not forget that one of the greatest sitcoms of all time was based

around a woman whose surname was Bucket who called herself Bouquet. You know, it's such a simple gag.

And I think car makers are guilty of this self-aggrandizement sometimes where they think, you know,

I had no idea how you said Van den Pla. I used to see this badge on the back of cars endlessly as

a child. And all I could work out was it made the car look worse. And I didn't know how to say it. Was

it Plass or Pla? Or I didn't understand it. It was Plass on the growing up. You were brought up.

Like M&S. Why did M&S have Sam Michelle written in their bloody clothes? I like,

did I go to M&S or did I go to Sam Michelle? I've got no idea. Remember that?

St Michael. You'd write St Michael in the clothes, but it was called Sam Michelle.

It's all a bit Michael McIntyre really. But I think, yeah, it's great. Yeah.

Okay, let's move on to F1. Who watched it? Put your hands up.

That's interesting. So only myself and Manish have raised our hands and I didn't watch all of it. I

watched until about, I'm left with 15 laps to go probably, because I had to go and have some food.

I did watch a race and I have to say I quite enjoyed it. I know that there's an artificial

element in the overtaking. And so when you see an overtaking maneuver,

you kind of wait for the complimentary maneuver. But if it doesn't happen, I guess someone makes

it stick. Miami is less energy hungry than other circuits. So I think you were seeing drivers

attack the corners a little bit more here. But at a personal level, I'm eating a bit of humble pie

about Antonelli. I remember two years ago on the pod saying that Toto was hiring a driver

based on data. And that was very dangerous. But my little caveat to that is that the data,

maybe this is increasingly a data driven sport. Maybe it is a sport where, you know,

the data drives it, you find a driver that can drive the data, not necessarily a car. But,

you know, McLaren and Red Bull have made big steps, really big steps. And I think before the

race, I think all the wise money was on the step and winning, actually. He wasn't that far behind

Antonelli and qualifying. I think they've really made some big improvements to the car. Max looked

pretty jolly. It was very out of character for him to spin like that. He was, you know, a little

bit aggressive. Again, I didn't think it was particularly classy. His move on Lewis, whereby

basically they both went off. But that's, you know, you gave the place back. Ferrari,

and they had upgrades here as well. And it was, I think, a bit of a weekend to forget for them.

You saw some real frustration at the end from Charles. And normally he's as cool as a cucumber.

And I wonder what it is to be in a team like that where, you know, for eight years, they've

told you you'll have a championship winning car and for eight years you haven't. And then kind of,

in what might be, I mean, this might be his last year. So in his penultimate year, last year,

they hire a driver who is, you know, Lewis is a great driver. He's not at his peak.

And Charles has put him away and paying basically double the money. That must be even more

annoying. And you can say, oh, well, they pay him double the money for lots of other things. But,

you know, in the end, this is a sport. And it's a very difficult, it must be very, very difficult,

the Charles. And for me, I'm starting to slightly, slightly see that come out. Ferrari wasn't great

on its tires. Normally, you'd have thought with this upgrade, it would be ominously Mercedes are

bringing new bits for Canada. And if they've managed to hold on to this race, and let's not

forget, they've won all four races. They pushed a little bit harder here. If they bring new bits

and they work in the next race, it could be back to status quo. Apparently Aston's vibrations have

stopped so they can focus on other things. And just, you know, sneaking into the background,

Williams are back, aren't they? Williams actually had a really, really good race. And perhaps this

is the car that they were hoping to start the season with. But certainly they've got a good

platform. So listen, I mean, I enjoyed it. Yeah, that's really all I can say. I enjoyed it and

tried not to think too hard in the couple of hours that there were to watch your race then.

Chris Cooper.

And I said this to manage, actually, I think when we were on one of our little trips together

recently, during the five week unexpected break with the cancellation of the Bahrain and Saudi

races, I didn't feel like I was missing it. And I didn't feel like I was missing it or anticipating

it like you do at the start of the season. And it sort of, it sort of didn't really, the idea of it

coming back hasn't grabbed me. And there's now is another three week gap. So they clearly didn't

design the season. Three weeks to Canada. No, it's three weeks to Canada. Three weeks from last

Sunday for the next race. So it's kind of all, stop, start. So the moment is kind of, in part

because like Neil, I follow football. And the team that I follow since I was seven years old

last Sunday is sort of on the brink of, and I found myself, I can't watch football, get too

nervous, particularly when you get to this end of a season, you think, oh, I don't know what to,

we might lose. But I didn't notice this weekend, I was sort of, I was less interested in, okay,

the race, it's just something, something's changed about it. We've talked about it before.

And I think the, it sounds exciting that the FIA has announced that Mohammed

Binsulian, the Fi president's announced that the eight less of a hybrid

assistance will come back. And almost makes it worse thinking, crack, we've got three years,

I've got to, I've got to drive all the way that way before I start driving that way back to where

I want to go. The very strange situation announcing, announcing

what the potential reg change might be when you're just months into a new regime is a very

strange thing, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. I've watched the, the most part of the race.

I'm slightly struggling with my reaction to it really, I feel guilty. I think I should like

it more than I do. Because at a basic level, there's a lot more overtaking going on. And I,

should want overtaking to be the ultimate representation of whether the sport's working

or not. But it makes me, it's made me realise it's about much more than just overtaking because

there are overtakes and there are overtakes. And I think if you, if you just watch motor racing

and you see one car overtake another and then immediately overtake back again,

I think it devalues the currency of the overtake, if I'm honest with you.

And that's, that's the bit that I struggle with. Because there was, there's lots of overtaking

going on, but it just sort of becomes the noise of the race. It doesn't feel, and this is really

unfair, because some of those are very well thought out. They're chess players, they've worked it out

eight corners before. And I still think that's going on. But if all that clever chess play can

be undone by your, some acronym in your car, giving you a bit more oomph and then you sneak

back past again, I'm not sure what it says about the sport. So I suppose I struggle with it. Normally,

I'd have turned up late to a meal to watch the end of the race, but I didn't. I turned up on time.

And I just, and I didn't really care too much about the outcome of the race. I thought Max was,

I think an angry Max at the beginning of a race is pretty sensational. And I think there's no

doubting now that Max has the status of, of Senna back in the day. Senna, if you go back and watch

old footage, Senna could be outrageous if he ended up in the midfield. He'd just throw it down the

inside in the knowledge that a red and white car with the yellow helmet, no one was going to mess

with it. Max has got that status now. He was just topping it up the inside. And in the knowledge,

they'd have to get out of the way. So it was great to watch, but yeah, pretty full on. And I,

I have to say, Antonelli, if someone's repeatedly winning like that, they're doing something really

special because that, you know, you've got to beat your teammate to start with. And he's making

George look a bit average at the moment. So I don't know how George responds to that, but it's

certainly, it's unexpected. I don't think any of us thought this would happen. And maybe we should

be celebrating the fact that this new formula is throwing up all sorts of results we didn't expect.

But there's some, I'm not gripped like, like Chris says, I'm not.

My problem is, and I don't know the detail, really, it's synthetic. It's like, if I was watching

tennis, but you had a button that could make your tennis racket twice as big. It doesn't,

doesn't feel like it's real. That's my problem with it. And maybe that's not true.

But, but motorsport to some extent has always been

complicated as a pure sport. You had a machine that had a huge impact on the outcome. So it's

always been like that. But there's something about, I use that phrase, the currency of the

overtake. Once you diminish the importance of that particular maneuver, I think you're in a bit

of trouble because then it's just cars sort of swapping positions. That's it. It's swapping

positions rather than overtaking. And I think that's a bit of a problem.

I mean, there's always a place, and this is what we're all talking about, isn't it,

for the purest form of motor racing, where it's just the car and the driver and all the cars are

the same. And I don't know, just off the top of my head, randomly, you'd say, catering racing,

catering racing was like that. And maybe I should talk about my catering championship one day

on this podcast. Maybe not. You should. We've got the pause button there, Vinnie.

So this is turning into marathon, guys. Can we move on to the two-car garage, please?

Now, have I got this one right? I'm looking at 30 years ago when you had a Ford RS Turbo.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Okay, great. Here we go. You and your partner met almost 30 years ago when you

had a Ford Escort RS Turbo, and she had a Vauxhall Calibre. Doesn't specify which one. Could have

been a Turbo. Your only child is through uni, and it's time to relive your younger years and buy

a car each £60,000 shared budget. And the only restriction is that they have to have only two

doors that would fit in an old-school car meet in Southend on C. There we go. Let's go to Manish

first. Oh, I actually thought this was fantastic. I really did. It's just like the sweet spot. I

know I wasn't married 30 years ago, but the little clues in this, apart from the kind of them,

I actually like the Calibre. Can I first of all just admit that I like the Calibre? I know

it's a little bit marmite. We all love the Escort RS Turbo, but the Calibre, I thought the styling

was kind of cool. And Southend on C implies to me that the two cars you've got to pick

should be kind of 80s, 90s British icons, two-door British icons. That's what it means to me. If

you go to Southend on C, and it also has a bit of a reputation, hasn't it? Southend on C for

people driving a bit nautily, doing donuts, getting there very, very quickly, but

increasingly just for the kind of museum quality of the car. So the first one, the expensive one

that I found was a 1980 Ford Capri Mark III, the three-litre manual. Look at that in silver.

It's got 45,000 miles, and I think you look bloody cool in that car. I think that's why it's

expensive. It's just got no miles. And the second one, and I think you'd look very cool in this.

Slightly leggy, slightly leggy, 131,000 miles, but a 1986 right-hand drive Lotus Esprit S3.

Look at that. That is cool. You bastard. Exactly. Sorry. Two two-door cars,

they're just Capri and Esprit. You're going to look great at that show. Your wife picks one of

those. You pick the other one. You're living the 80s dream, living the 83. You are. You're

certainly wrong footed me there, man. She's gone for us. I didn't think you could have a super car.

I've just been looking at the obvious ones. It's funny how we blind-tied ourselves.

No, Clifford. Yeah, very good choice, obviously, one of those.

Okay, we've got two. Both cars have two doors. So I'm like, hmm, this is a bit weird.

How are you going to differentiate between those two cars that they both have a use?

Because, of course, it could just be husband and wife cars, but you don't go for a drive with your

wife and she just follows you and you go together, don't you? Unless you hate your wife.

But if you don't hate your wife, you want to go with her. Therefore,

both cars have got to have a slightly different job, is where I came to this a little bit. So

I'm buying a Corrado. Oh, I love those. Right. So good looking.

But it's so good looking. And I wish, you know, I wish they had a current one.

The G60 versus VR6 is always quite a good debate. I couldn't I couldn't get the VR6.

So I went G60 in my company car after Renault. I was always a bit jealous of VR6,

but there was something sexy about supercharger. So it was sort of, to me, it was in line.

I've gone left hand drive is my is my slightly left field move here. Because if you're going to go

for, you know, you're going to drive down to classic Le Mans, you're going to go to Paris

for the weekend, you're going to go to Barrett's or that other funny place in Spain, where they have

all the funny food up the North. You've got you've a left hand drive one.

Sort it. In white. In whites. And of course, white is the new green, as we know.

You've never heard San Sebastian described by that.

Yeah, I can't remember. I pronounce it wrong. Anyway, San whatever. So look at that. White

white bloody Corrado. Then I've got money left because that's that's in auction. It's going

to go 12 grand, 13 grand. I've got a load of money left. I am going like managed supercar.

And I am going Lotus Esprit. Nice. I'm going early. And the reason why I was thinking it's

got to be Essex. Essex is pure Britain. You don't want to show up there in something a bit naff

that no one can pronounce. And it's all a bit sort of foreign. You want British. I wanted a Lotus

Esprit Essex. Yeah. Basically, there's I can only get one that was a replica of a real one. And

that I thought that's a bit too far even for me a replica Esprit. So this is this is some sort of

s one stroke s two. There was a sort of what there was a one in the middles and s one and a half.

And yeah, converted from an s one to an s. Oh, there you go. So it's two. Oh, no, no, no,

it's too late. It's a 2.2. It's all very good. And by the way, the only check that you need to do on

a car as I've experienced in the last couple of weeks is check all the buttons work and the Corrado

because nothing goes wrong, particularly when you deal with fabulously trustworthy dealers.

All the all the buttons work on the Corrado. So you're absolutely fine there. You're not going

to get into any problems. That's a t shirt, by the way, do all the buttons work question mark.

Chris Cooper. So it's south end, isn't it? It's always sunny in south end. South end is in Essex,

the sister shire on the eastern side of London. I had my first job in south end a million years ago.

So I think you've got to look back 30 odd years. I haven't gone British because I think it's just

it's an old school car me anything. So the first car I get, and it's from our dear friend Andy Noble,

who now runs seven in classics has run for a while. One of those. It's good. Good. On the

south end, I think that's just how much 29 950. It's done. Not many miles, 30 or 1000 miles.

So I thought I was a winner 25 for cash says from Andy, sort of the earth, he'll sort us out. And

then the other one has a great story about the running sport spider

interrupt very quickly. Apparently on the launch, it was launched with no windscreen. You remember

the car with no windscreen. Yes. And apparently all the journeys got in the cars and drove off

onto the a eight. And the police or the john, I'm just pulled them all over and just just said

you're knit. There's no windscreen. That's illegal. Really? Straight away. Because the race car series,

the one make race car series, which was 1989, 1999. That had that sort of like low scuttle with a

little sort of deflector, but no windscreen. They look recall. I actually now really like the ones

with windscreen. The other one, 28,000 pounds. It's the Z three m coupe. Yeah, that's good. Yeah,

but I think you could do this. This question every week on car classic and have just a

dramatically different answer. It's a real sweet. I am, I obviously didn't read the,

the two door bit. So I've been scurrying myself now to replace what I really wanted to buy,

which is a Renault 21 turbo because I can't have it because it's got 22 doors. I read this

slightly differently. I think that I think there's a strong tone of reminiscence going on here. And

that what you buy really needs to hark back. I'm looking at the ages. I'm going first off for a gen

one escort RS turbo. Yeah, because you might be a bit snobby about fast forwards,

but I defy anyone not to tell me that car just looked Bob on. They got it absolutely right.

And I read the first drive in car magazine on the throne about a week ago and it reviewed well.

Quite often these fast forwards didn't review well, but this had a locking diff,

thick end of 130 horsepower. And they just said it was really remarkably exciting with not too

much turbo loud. I didn't expect that review. Oh, it's good. Fair play and have one of those.

And south end on C, you've got to be in a forward or one of you's got to be in a forward. Yeah,

you have missing that. And so I've gone exactly what Neil told me not to do or something he wouldn't

do. I've doubled up on my disciplines because I someone needs to buy this. If this was a 205,

it would be worth 30,000 pounds. But it's a 309 GTI, it's done 24,000 miles,

absolutely Alan Mitter. Look at that. Yes. And it's 15 grand. Jesus Christ. Is that a six speed

box? Is that the six speed? They drive brilliantly. They handle better than a 205 in many ways.

They look a bit awkward. But how much car for the money?

So I've got a load of money left over. I don't presume I'll use it to ensure them

all to go on holiday. Yeah. Let's do some music after this marathon podcast. Let's go first to

Neil Clifford. Songs that you love to sing along to that no one really knows that you do it. But

I've never heard it, but I'll go and listen to it. I've kind of listened to enough dollar

since last week. I've listened to a lot of dollar and it's really good. And I'll hear no criticism

of David and Theresa. I think it's just brilliant. And I'm really happy with my even though some

people on social media thought I was being ludicrous. I think it's wonderful. So I have had

this week is Johnny is 80s. I'm in the Philistines corner. Yeah, it's just Johnny hates jazz shattered

dreams is mega in the car. Yeah, it's good. That's good. It's good. Manish.

If you ever see the film The Piano, the music's by Michael Nyman, and there's a piece called The

Center of Love, which starts as a bit of a piano. It's basically the piano theme from

the piano. And then it becomes this massive orchestral piece. I urge you to listen to that

in a car. You're just pootling around. And then suddenly you're doing light speed on an auto

bomb, opening your sunroof like this. Every probably six months, I have a moment when I

realise that Daft Punk no longer exists. And there'll be no new album when I get angry about it.

Because we because I think we've been sold short and they should be making more music.

And this time I listened to Giorgio by Maroda. That that is just an extraordinary piece.

It's a great tune. So go and listen to that. That was a bit of a marathon. Thank you very

much for listening to episode 86. 86 of the car podcast Chris Harris and friends. We've got a

So on Saturday, the 6th of June, as I'm sure you all know, we are having an unlimited noisy

track day at Thruxton in Hampsteadshire. We would like to award a little prize. It might

be a very long speech from me or a much better shorter speech from one of my colleagues to

find Britain's noisiest car. It's got a big car. You can't just turn up with a jet engine. Although

if you do turn up with a jet engine, you get in for free. Okay, I'll pay you a ticket to get in

for that. We want Britain's noisiest car because the noise meters at Thruxton are very, very,

we want it to be louder than a crow landing on the noise meters at Thruxton, which apparently

has got the record for the noisiest noise at Thruxton. Bring the noisiest car, all the noise

meters will make a little award in the day. So yeah, sign up. If anyone's got unsilenced

two-stroke Saab, bring that along. That's one of the noisiest cars I've ever heard.

Bring one of those along. It's a happy, happy birthday, David Attenborough.

Happy birthday, David. National treasure. So Attenborough. He hasn't had his birthday yet, has he?

He will when the podcast comes out. I'll try to, from Morrell. Okay.

Ah, okay. Managed to be in clever. Thank you very much to my co-host,

Neil Clifford, Chris Cooper, Managed Pandy. We look forward to boring you again next week.

A lot of work advice sounds good in theory, but falls apart when you actually try to use it.

I'm on a mission to change that. I'm Molly Graham, a company builder and the new host

of WorkLife, a podcast from Ted. I've spent my career inside fast-growing companies,

and one thing I know for sure is that work is messy. In this new season, I'm excited to share

my conversations with founders, operators, and creatives about the real story behind

their shiniest successes, the lessons that no one ever posts on LinkedIn.

Listen now on WorkLife wherever you get your podcasts.

Has F1 fundamentally changed in 2026? | The Car Podcast #86

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First Overland

hot wire blow dry system

new regime

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catering racing

Vauxhall Calibre

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low scuttle

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