If You're Cold, They're Cold

SFJ 4x4 Studios presents

In my oversized four-wheel drive Jeep

A Jeep podcast starring industry experts

Cure monocity

What? Say that again!

With mad scientist Scott Brown

I use my drill press as a sort of lathe

Our host, Neil Simpson

If one light goes on they all go out

And Philpuss shenanigans

We are really professional with Jeeps

This is I Speak Jeep

Good morning, afternoon, evening

Wherever, however you are joining us

This is the I Speak Jeep podcast

Presented by SFJ4x4.com

My name is Neil

With Simpson Family Jeeps SFJ 4x4

And I'm joined in Grandma's couch studio

With the venerable, the decorated

Producer Jeff that can't get the clock

The Italian stallion who once again

For like the 11th episode

It doesn't even matter. It's like two years in

And we still just can't make this in-studio clock work

For our countdown timer. Remarkable

I want one that's just hit the button

Oh man, like the chess timer

Just a hard mechanical chess timer

No, because on your excited days

You will be smacking that down so hard

That's true

That it will break within the first two or three episodes

That's true. And then we'll be back to this thing

I get so fired up sometimes

I get such big feelings

Additionally, we have the maddest mad scientist

Coming off a cold

Doc Brown, yeah, took a day or two off

At the end of the week there

A day

Yeah, whatever

Felt like two

It's like when Jeffrey goes on vacation

13 years on vacation

Anywho's a what-set

That's so awesome that I go on vacation

And it's like I was gone longer than I've even worked here

10-year-olds

That tracks

In the comments, we got Nate with first

Saying good morning

I would expect nothing else

I know he was back at it this morning

Billy Joe saying good morning

Nate's asking how everyone's enjoying the snow

Daddy Jeep saying morning guys

Bill McWilliam saying good morning

Joe Bryan saying darn Nate

I expected Joe

Joe is the ultimate underdog

I mean, he shows up every single time

Just in the comments

Swinging

Always Nate about three to four behind

And then Jagadjeeper says good morning

And take away his Mickey Mouse watch

And get him a digital one

That's fair

Fair

Alright

Well today we are going to be, you know

Addressing the, you know, incredibly talked about

All pervasive weather system that is coming through

The United States

The entire US

Other than the west coast

No, they were complaining it was cold

Oh yeah, they got cold

But by standard of what the rest of the US got

Yeah, it was pretty underwhelming

Yeah, it was like, you know, 50 or 60 or something

They were really cold

Oh no, oh no

Yeah, and then ultimately, and I know we have

A number of acquaintances in the good customer base

And listenership in the Florida region

But James Highlands and our Hemi TJ

Sent pictures of his beautiful pool

You know, open currently and said

You know, it was going to be 80 in Florida

They were poolside

But, yeah

But today's topic, in part

Is inspired by one of our customers

As we have most recently shared

Jeffrey had kind of alluded to the fact that

One of our customers had talked about wanting to know more

Or hear about audio systems, specifically in gladiators

But, you know, by extension newer vehicles

Today's topic, in part, is addressing jump packs

And jump starting, which may be more important

In these unprecedented times of extreme cold temperatures

Right, so I tried to throw as many cliche talking points

In there as possible, because that's what the news says

Yeah, yeah

So we are going to be talking about if they're cold

Or if you're cold, they're cold

And what that means and how it relates to your vehicle ownership

Now, if you're one of the lucky ducks

Who, you know, garages your vehicle

This might be slightly less pertinent

Unless you're in one of the unfortunate places

Without power right now, I know there's hundreds of thousands

Without power

And there is lots to be conversated about here

There's a number of angles that we can explore this topic

As always, if you'd like to hear about our own personal lives

And my own personal take on the weather

We will talk about our weekend updates

Following the outro credits at the end of this program

So hang in there if you do so

Choose

Where do you want to start?

I mean, Doc, you always like to go back to the horse and buggy

Do we have to go quite back that far?

No, okay

Because realistically...

Unfortunately, I have the blanket on in the stall somewhere

There, he did it

But I know that if you wanted to talk jump packs

I feel like Scott's probably got some random knowledge

Of this 1930s version of a jump pack

What you used to do is you take the oil out of the car

And you go warm it up in the house

And then pour it back in

So the car would start first thing in the cold morning

So we're glad we don't have to do that anymore

Yeah

Alright, so

And on that note, wonderful

I have really enjoyed seeing

Authentically arctic temperature individuals

Who are living, you know, maybe a little more off-grid

Or are individuals who are on the oil gas fracking industry

More in the northern areas

Showing how they're trying to warm up their vehicles

By building these tents and small wood burners

Or having a torpedo heater

And trying to concentrate and keep that heat

Under the front end of their engine

And warm up their engine

Before they even attempt to turn the key

And they talk about if it's a wood fire

And you're doing it kind of the oldest way possible

You could have a wood fire going in there

Between two and four hours

Torpedo heaters need roughly 30 to 45 minutes

To get that confined space up to temperature

Likewise, I think that certainly generationally

We have a lot of recollection of the

Fun covers people used to put on the grills

Of their vehicles, and I certainly remember

Our school buses having that

And of course, if you were just an enterprising

Local farmer or individual, you just went out

And you found yourself some cardboard

Or a piece of plywood that you would wire

Twine a wire tie to the grill of your vehicle

Why would people do that?

Because you don't need airflow right now

Yeah, and so ultimately

We have this recollection of these blankets

Or these provisions at which we did

Well, then we got to this point in society

Where we would go out and we would pre-heat our vehicles

And of course, big truck drivers and diesel guys

They might let their truck idle through the night sometimes

And a lot of trucks have shutters that will shut or open

On the grill

And just because you made me to 30s cars

Like my 36, it was an option to get a Pines

Winter front grill

That you could block off most or all the radiator

And now if you have one for like a 32 Ford

It's worth like $3,000

Of course it is

And people are just buying it for the aesthetics

Yeah, it's just fun to own

But they would have a cable inside you would pull

And it would shut or open

Sure, so

Sure, sure, sure

Well, and so we went to this

This warming up the vehicle conversation

To, within the last decade

Being told that warming up the vehicle is unnecessary

And I think that it will be valuable to talk about

Why that might be as well in our progressive talking points

I had a good friend just recently

You know, talk about how all the auto manufacturers

Many of them at this point in time

Remote start is almost standard, right?

Almost, it's not actually standard

I need you to know that

It's actually gone so far that now it's subscription based

In some capacities because that subscription

Is Wi-Fi related or app related

So that as the plane is descending

Into the subarctic Cleveland airport

You know, and you start because you paid extra for the Wi-Fi

You can actually remote start your vehicle via your phone

You know what I mean?

Yeah, but it's gone to the extreme that it's only on your phone

You don't get remote start on the key fob

In the key fob

Yeah

Right, that's your Subaru, isn't it?

That's my parents too

Yep

So we've got this weird discrepancy, right?

We've got these technological advances

With these cumbersome talking points

And yet we have some what I would call

Just nuts and bolts of weather related challenges

Right, so like we have this root core conversation

Which is like electrical components don't love cold

Oil, viscous fluid

The viscosity of the oils, the potential antifreeze

Wind-shell washer fluids, you know, that kind of stuff

And what does that mean for the people who are using that product

Because of course our southern customers, listeners, friends

And family in the Jeep community

Do not necessarily need to pay for the extreme cold weather stuff

That might be normal for us

Just like snow load is different in, say, Texas

Trying to trigger me a little bit

Just like snow load, you know, building to code

Is, you know, kind of is different in Oklahoma

Than it is here in outside of the Great Lakes

Insulation values, right?

So we have these realities

And that is why then we blow up these big proportions

Because anything that then we, we are used to this

Yeah, right? This is kind of the norm for us

Yeah, you actually miss, because we're going to trigger Scott Moore

You miss one of the big talking points on building construction

And that's digging depth for freeze points

For frost lines

And now that there's an ice storm going in

Subarctic temperatures hitting, you know, southern areas

You know, that frost line can extend

Yeah, your foundational areas can heave, like you said

Or trees can explode

Which, that's also a thing

What? What are you talking about?

He wasn't on the internet today

I wasn't on the internet today

Ever, because this is the real thing that happened

My first day

The sap in the trees expands with the rapid freezing

And it'll actually, they don't like shoot

I wanted spontaneous explosion

But it sounds like a gun went off, it splits the tree

Some of them will fall in half, sometimes it'll drop branches

If you're near one when it does it, it'll scare the crap out of you

Huh, go figure

Well, so we all have this, like I said, this loosey-goosey experience

And we go back to kind of a rudimentary technology

We go back from the 30s

And I hate to even say this, but really, arguably up to the 80s

Because we have a lot of mechanical, naturally aspirated vehicles

With low electric demand in the grand scheme of the world

Right, and we're talking Bell Curve, right?

Because Lincoln and Cadillac and Mercedes and all those folks

Yeah, they were playing with electronics and more sensitive technologies

You know, decades and decades and decades before the rest of us

But this is a Jeep off-road podcast

And so for us, we were still in the Stone Age

And realistically, being able to choke your carbon-motated vehicle

Was a critically important part of the start-up process

And then, God forbid, you had any moisture in your fuel

As we know from Saturday, I had to bring the tractor in

To let the tractor thaw out for purposes of preparing to plow and whatnot

Because I got the water in my fuel filter code

Because, of course, my tractor shansy

Gellin' in Magellan

It wasn't Gellin', you know what I mean?

It probably was frozen right around, you know, probably the water particularly

Had frozen at the sensor, and of course, you know, had tripped the sensor

And, you know, I was venting to Jeffrey and Greg

I only used pump gas, pump diesel at that rate

And we talked about how there is an acceptable moisture content

Or water content in fuel

That's a given

We don't want to exactly talk about that as automobile enthusiasts

But that's why they make products like dry gas

It is

And a form of, you know, dry gas or stable

Or any of these fuel additives that have some type of, you know, bonding

Snake oil stuff in them to try and help some of the impurities

In our pump tank fuel that is permissible by law

Of course, back in the day, when we had less weights and measures

That frozen fuel line could actually plug up

Your ability for your carbon rotator, the float or the bowl

Or the actual fuel line to function appropriately

Reasonably speaking, our new modern fuel injected vehicles

Have a little less to worry about unless you have

I was gonna say, it's a lot more rare to hear somebody had water in their fuel

That prevented them from starting it

But it does happen

Right? And it's not out of the question

And, you know, there's outliers to kind of every conversation, you know

So little less to be concerned about

But I do think that Jeffrey's talking point regarding the fuel additive

This is the time to use it, right?

This is the time to use it

And this is one of those things that if it works half as good as they market it to

Then you have taken a step in the right direction, you know

Of course, we have to talk about block heaters

Because our Canadian-born vehicles and Jeeps come standard with those

We actually found one underneath the hood of the Jeep last week

And I said, hmm, that went over to the door and it said imported by blah, blah, blah

A little further down and it had a little maple leaf on it

100%

It originated in the Great White North

That being said, I know you could

Even when like the 19 Cherokees were out

You could buy the block heater as part of it

And mine came that way at that time

Because it was just almost standard for those

So objectively, you know, covering fuel system

There's not tons and tons to move there

Because other than a little bit of particulate in the fuel

Gas won't freeze, diesel has the ability to gel

It slows down

Yeah, otherwise that's all you have to worry about

But I love the block heater conversation

Because quite frankly, there might be a number of people

Block heaters are not nearly that common

Unless you have a diesel, older diesel

And newer diesels do not always require them now

Older diesels dead

We had

And without getting way down the rabbit hole

Diesels don't have spark plugs

They don't use ignition

They don't make little explosions themselves

They use the compression of air

And more or less they need warm air to do that

So when the air is frigid

You can't start a diesel, right?

That's the summation of it

It doesn't start easily

So between glow plugs and grid heaters

Grid heaters and warmers and all that kind of stuff

And as you're saying that Charles just said

This is the first time he's ever had to plug in his diesel

Right, and of course Charles is from Texas for us

For those of you who listen in

And I think that's a great recommendation

And so block heaters, and this is the thing

My sister moves to Alaska in early 2000

Late 90s, early 2000s

They have heaters for their heaters

Yeah, and she drove a little Mazda

A little Mazda car

It was super cool

She's a super tough nut

Her and my mom packed up this little Mazda car

Why is it for the life of me?

A Mazda 3 was a little sedan

Four-door manual

It was a five-speed manual

Probably the Mazda 3, though

Yeah, I think it was a Mazda 3

I mean, dude, the thing had been on like 14-inch wheels

We put some new rubber on it

Loaded it down

Couldn't see out the back window

Took a cardboard sign

Put three cardboard signs on it

Alaska or bust

And her and my mom

Drove from just outside Cleveland, Ohio

To Fairbanks, Alaska

Camping alongside the road in a tent

And, you know, hotel as necessary every couple days

That is quite the drive

It's quite the drive, right?

And my sister just packed up everything she had

And just moved to Alaska, right?

Obvi...

Obvi, that car was not a good Alaskan vehicle, right?

So she ends up buying a nice S10 Blazer

And it had a block heater on it

And this was...

I mean, I'm a teenager

And other than some loosey-goosey stuff

From some diesel tractors and stuff like that

I was not particularly familiar

So for those of you who are listening

We as a society have tried this

You were talking about your oil conversation

There was one...

It was a tube that slipped down your dipstick

That one liked to catch on fire

I need you to know that one was the dangerous one

Because Farmer Jim Bob would rip it out of his...

He would not appropriately install it

His electrical connections would not be great

It would be too close to the mechanical fan

Or some type of moving thing

And the wires would chafe

Or he would rip it out when unnecessary

To check the oil, actually

And it would get damaged

And then you had an exposed electrical element

Next to oil

Or in oil

Or in the oil, right?

And so that product

While on the market for a long time

Is not one that we recommend you use

If you find it still lingering around out there

There was, at one time, conversations

About regulating that product

And not making it available to domestic markets

I don't know if you can or can't get that anymore

It was in part stores up to like ten years ago

I agree with you

The next most common block heater conversation

Is basically a patch

That adheres to a primary side of the block

And think of it as a small heated blanket

That adheres to...

They usually put those on oil pans

You can also put it on your battery

On your transmission pan

If you're in Alaska, you have all those

Correct

And then you have a power strip

You plug everything into

And if I recall, that one was the one my sister had

And then there was some actual

Threaded, bung, mechanical

Or electric mechanical heaters

Which was probably the most permanent insulation

Which you're going to see on diesel applications

Or some gas gas

Canadian jeeps

Or if you're Scott Brown

Right

Well, the cool thing is my sister

Real quick, Jeffrey, before you get this

To finish up the story

Two things were true

One, you could just go to any store

And the vehicles were just running outside

And that was a very, very common place

I experienced that this weekend

Just ourselves at the local dollar general

Five vehicles running but empty as it could be

You're relying on your fellow man

Not to steal your vehicle in the middle of the frigid Arctic

Two, there was actually extension cords

Provided by, like, the local convenience store

The local hardware store, the local grocery store

And so you would pull your vehicle up to, you know

Is that where the idea of plug-in hybrid came from?

Well, and I think there's a good joke there

Right? I think there's a good joke there

And your workplace would have extension cords

So that you would go to work

And you would not have your vehicle

Sit there and idle all day necessarily

You would plug your vehicle

And that's part of your work-life, personal-life experience

Super kind of fun thing that I was exposed to

Alright, so in the comments we got Zach saying

He was disappointed to discover that his 23 JTDR

Far-out edition did not come standard with a block heater

Had to buy it from the dealer

No way

Jeanie said good morning that she's late

And then, Red, he's got a story here

He says you could always just have your alternator fry

And not unhook it in time while it kills your brand-new battery

And melt wires

Yeah, that is how jeeps burn down

We want to avoid that

Which is why the conversation about, you know

Zach buying the appropriate block heater

Or, you know, our recommendation not to buy the dipstick one

In a pinch would be, you know, recommended in part

And then a tie-in to going to Circle K and all the cars running

Ohio felt the need to release a thing

But they just, like normal, chose their words poorly

And it was, you should not let your vehicle puff

No, it did not

During the storm, they did

They did that on purpose

Yes

That's awesome

And people are like, what is puffing?

And basically it is, you're not supposed to, you know

Let your vehicle sit and run for a long period of time

It's not good for it

It's not good for the carbon monoxide build-up that can happen

The one that I thought was the best though

Is I don't remote-start my car for it

Or you remote-start it for me

And it's like, I feel seen

That was a comment, somebody put

Because people are like, oh, you don't need to do that now

With the newer vehicles

And it's actually bad for the engine

And this person's like, kind of don't give a fig about all that

So this is that opportunity for us to transition

Into why this discourse exists

Because I did loosely mention

Again, the school bus and the cardboard we put on the front

Because we don't need wind flow across the engine

Which was because they were diesels

And even our car application

We were trying to build up heat

So that the engine came up to temperature

It ran a little more efficient

If there was moisture in the fuel lines

It was not freezing or blocking anything off

It got burned off

Right, it got burned off

We were doing that with intentionality

To help the vehicle be more efficient

I stand upon the soapbox

And say that was a thing

Likewise, semi-trucks that were idling through the night

There's countless RVers and HDT RVers

Which is people who buy HD trucks

Class 8 trucks and try to RV out of them

There's people who don't know what they don't know

And they go out and they're in Colorado

Or they're in Wyoming

They're in higher elevation areas, I should say

And they go to bed and they shut the truck off

And then the next morning they wake up

And there's, you know, 8 to 10 inches of snow

And Starbucks airs have, you know

That's a different weather pattern

And the vehicle just says, nope, I'm not starting

Right?

That's because our trucking industry experienced this

I don't know, 60 years ago and they just knew better

And so that's why the truck ran overnight

Because they could then wake up and go about their day

So modern day vehicles

God, do not need warmed up

The tolerances of which they are manufactured

Are tighter and so therefore

The ability for them to computer regulate

And come up to temperature in a controlled manner

Is more efficient, it's faster

And does not require

That natural, ambient, organic manner

In which you bring a vehicle up to temperature

That being said, on the really cold days

I still try to let mine run for a minute or two

Before I immediately drive out of the driveway

And start revving on it

So that's a best practice

Right now I'm standing on my soapbox

Manufacturers will tell you

That does not need to be warmed up

That's because the bell curve of people don't

They started up and as the starters disengaging

They're putting it in gear and they're going down the road

I'm gonna get back on my soapbox

And talk about folks, if you own a Jeep

If you own a Jeep, don't do that

Mother Chrysler did not give us a vehicle

That was particularly robust to do exactly what Scott said

If they do do that, they should be penalized

And make them drive O3 through O6 TJ

With an automatic

And then they have to pause

And with that said

And I know this is a gross exaggeration

For our most modern JLs and JTs

But certainly the period of time

That you're disclosing and earlier

And quite frankly your early JKs

I'm gonna say all your JKs

Because until we go to the 8 speed transmission

And even with the 8 speed

I still, I get in, I start the engine

I sit for a couple seconds like Jeffery's saying

I put the automatic transmission shifter

Because I'm lazy, I hate to say

I'm not lazy about anything, I love an automatic

So whatever, I put it in the neutral

And I let the oil pump pump

Because of that TJ experience

And I encourage you now to do that exact thing

I will never forget the phone call

It was, you know, hey I go to take off

And it like delays and then

And then it slams

Yup, cause it doesn't pump in park

Yup, and the fluid's not moving

And it's thick, and it's maple syrup

And you need to actually get the pump

To start moving stuff around, right?

So because of these tires all this

Because of the computer control

Because of all these things

There are actually detrimental factors

Like catalyst efficiency

So the problem is

Our catalytic converters

Need to actually be at a high degree rating

Which happens more so under

Higher temperature, more in the 1500 degree range

Which actually only happens with greater RPMs

They call it a flash off point

Thank you

And so therefore sustained idle time

On a catalytic converter

Can actually lead to particulate build up

Now, if your cats are new

And your O2 sensors are new

And new enough

The likelihood of this is low

But if the vehicle is aging

And the efficiency of the catalyst material

Within the catalytic converters

And maybe the O2 sensors ability to accurately read

What's going on in there has diminished

Then you could end up with greater particulate build up

Likewise, because the tolerances within your cylinders

Are so tight by comparison

To the loosey-goosey stuff that we used to have

Under the carbon-motated vehicles

Sustained idling can create cylinder wash down

Now, basically, while we don't exactly think of this

There is a degree of lubricity that is happening

While the explosion is happening inside your

Each individual cylinder wall of the engine

And our tighter tolerances had actually

Some degree of oiling

I mean, looser tolerances

Looser tolerances, is what I said, tighter

Our looser tolerances back then

It would get up in there and lubricate things

It was more forgiving

You actually got some of that oil from the actual cylinder

From the actual crank case pushing up past the cylinder

Whereas our modern-day tighter tolerances

We really don't get a lot of that pushback

That blow by, that oil coming up

And helping lubricate the cylinder walls

We're relying on the lubricity of the fuel itself

And while there are detergents

And we've had a whole conversation about different types of oils

And viscous modifiers and yada-yada

There's less and less of that

So sustained idle combustion can actually reduce lubricity

And therefore damage the cylinder walls of your engine

Take it or leave it

That's a reality of why people say not to let your vehicle warm up

I do have a lot of comments coming in

Charles said he used to drive from Houston to Edmonton, Alberta

And the hotel that they stayed at had plugs located all throughout the parking lot

That's normal, right?

I appreciate you sharing that

Jeep and Joe said good morning from North Carolina

It's cold for us and he's got the diesel plugged in

And speaking of cold, it was 27 degrees on top of Big Island, Hawaii

I'm not even going to try to say the name of the island

And then he said he jumped out of the rental Jeep at Sunset

And the SFJ 4x4 Merry Christmas what he did well

All the tourists loved it and his white beard

And then Zach says I don't care how much diesel costs

I'll warm it up before I go out

Amen to that

Dylan asked what is your thoughts on the Gladiator with the Equal Diesel

Really thinking about buying one

So we'll go back to that in just a second

Daddy Jeep said if they don't need warmed up

Then why do they have a remote start and we'll come back to that as well

I answered that

That was a good say

No, we don't need to come back to it

Scott answered it

We're not doing it for the vehicle

We're doing it for ourselves

Creature comfort

That's why my steering wheel and my seat turned on automatic

Charles said driving a TJ and laughing

And then Redd also acknowledged that too

So back to Dylan on the Eco Diesel

I also mentioned we don't need heated seats or cooled seats

That is not for the vehicle

That is for me the occupant

And the manufacturer is not dumb

They recognize that that helps

Those creature comforts help sell vehicles

I think in a standard that should be in the vehicles

That is for the safety is heated mirrors

That's fair

I don't care about the heated seat or the steering wheel

Those are nice

But the heated mirrors

Man, I miss having heated mirrors

That makes a big difference in this kind of weather

You're absolutely right

Because my big trucks, my Ram had heated mirrors

The International has heated mirrors

That's really standard

Those are slightly older vehicles

With not all the bells and whistles

And you are factually correct

There's a visibility issue in your mirrors

If you don't have heated

And prior to ever owning a vehicle with heated mirrors

I did not recognize how dramatic of a difference it is

To have heated mirrors

And then you get used to having it

And then you switch back to non-heated mirrors

And you're like, how am I supposed to see?

That's fair

It's like delay wipers until you don't have them

You don't appreciate them

Correct

I was there once

So all of those things go into this hot, cold, extreme weather situation

Because those creature comforts

Much like remote starting the vehicle

Have seated themselves into our everyday vehicle expectations

Experience

Vehicle experience

Sure

And so we desire to have those things

Because if I was to go out

And I was to give the bell curve of our society

A rear wheel drive

Bias ply

Carbomertated

That would be at the end of days

It would be the end of days

Nope, there would be people dying

The hospitals would be packed

And that's, you know

Jeff would have to become a fireman again

That is a real and challenging reality to this situation

That these things exist for us, the consumer base

More so than the necessity and need of the vehicle itself

And it's a little off topic

But the thing that's pertinent is, you know

Because we just can't help ourselves

We're at a purveyor of every group we own

So I'm sure you're on tractor groups

For your specific tractor

I'm on for mine

That's a you and me thing

Just so you know

That's fair

I was gonna say

That's a you and me thing

But because of that

You see

Normal folk

You see the snapshot of society

That I've gone out and bought a diesel tractor

A lot of them have never owned a diesel before

I agree

Or you have the die hard

I'm the fix it my Crescent Ranch guy

And there was this whole hubbub

Because this is a nationwide thing

People are feeling of

Why doesn't my John Deere tractor have a block heater?

Yes

And why doesn't it, we're gonna start up right away

So we had both sides of the argument

And we had people having to explain

Like you see that little light

That comes on with the dash

And then that's your glow plugs

You gotta let it run

And then the other guy going

No, you really don't need a block heater

On these new diesels

Correct

Unless it's like Antarctica

Correct

Subarctic temperature

Which in some situations

We have seen that with

Some folks who are experiencing this weather system

And I'm gonna sidebar for a second

Because I feel like it needs to be said

I think that you're part of

It's part of your fault

Of some of my challenges

Because you and I met at a pretty young age

And I really thought the winner

Which we related to the world

And the idiosyncrasies that we fixated on

Was more normal

Yeah

Is Jeffrey saying?

Nope

Because you're right

I got all excited about

Undercoding the other day

Customer asked me about undercoding

I had to explain that I'm in the undercoding social pages

And the guy just kind of looked at me

And I was like, you know what

I'm just gonna be quiet now

Just gonna be quiet, you know

I was like, he likes to nerd out on that kind of stuff

Yeah, but anywho

You're absolutely right

And there are different technologies

Like

Actually like the international series built engines

They do not have

They do not have some type of glow plug

Or pre-heat operation on them

And really what it comes down to is

Whatever you've chosen for being your

Equipment or your daily vehicle

You need to research it and know what's important for it

You know, it is

Just because you had a diesel once

And it was this way doesn't mean it's this way now

Same way with a Jeep

Just because you once rode in an open top Jeep

At some point in your life does not mean

That is how it stands hold for your current Jeep

So, for example

If you had a TJ and it took 1030 oil

Well, that doesn't mean 1030 oil is right for your JL

Just because they both

When you squint, kind of look like the same vehicle

Doesn't mean they are the same vehicle

So if you have questions

Or maybe you should have questions

You should go and research that specific

And know what you need to do

Because when you don't

That costs you money

And time and effort and all that stuff

Which also costs you money

So as far as Jeffrey had started on the

Eco-Diesel conversation

I really have a special place in my heart

For the

The 3.0 Eco-Diesel

Amongst the

You know, Stellantis lineup

Now with that said

Before you go to that

I'm going to say I think the 3.0

Is the best diesel

They've ever put in the North American

Released Jeep

Compared to the other

Diesel's we've had options

So what Scott did there

Was he chose his words

Incredibly wisely

For our main

Market demographic

Because in the grand scheme

Of the world

Our diesel options have sucked

For 40, 50 years

And now this will make me

Get all passionate on my soapbox

We're still doing a bad job of it

Because yes

While the option exists

And that I challenge you

To go out and have

Easy to digest

Pull of vehicles to purchase

With the 3.0 in it

I looked

Hard and far

And I had

Option

I had to give up 90% of what I wanted

On that truck

Just to get the diesel

So I chose not to

And I got a gas because

They don't do a good job

Of supplying the market

For that option

I think they just don't take us serious

Well I'm gonna

I'm gonna not

I'm not gonna try not to get on my soapbox

Regarding

Federal regulatory

And incentive programs

For

Diesel versus

Gas combustion engines

Because if we incentivized diesel production

Like we do gas or hybrid

Electric previously

Then we would have better diesel technology

With that said

Go back to Scott's conversation

This particular diesel engine

Is the best we've ever seen

In a production jeep vehicle

The

EGTEGR

EGR

System leaves a lot

To be desired

But it is something that you're going to have

On any

New production diesel

Over a certain horsepower

Trading

And so I think that

We see that particular

Option set

And we also have start-stop technology

Which I think is valuable as we transition

Slightly this conversation into electrical load

In extreme temperatures if you will

But finish up

Kind of the comment about the

Eco diesels

We have seen a great

Utilization out of them

Pretty good reliability

We have yet to have them

Around long enough to

Get that good

Warm and fuzzy diesel

Feeling of 200-300,000 miles

I did hear that the earlier

Models which were

Pre-jeep installation

This is Ram specifically

Had a lot of teething

Problems and issues

And the second generation

Which is what then we started seeing

In our JLs and JTs

Is a much better

Sorted engine

These were in grand Cherokees as well

So the grand

As we always talk about

Testbeds a lot of stuff

The Hemmy Bob

The 1500 Ram as you mentioned

When there was

Conversation around the Hemmy

They did a big push into the

Eco diesel market

The teething problems are absolutely

Accurate

And again

This is going to be your first diesel

Should definitely learn

A little bit

I tried to buy a diesel grand

And my wife

Was not equipped or prepared

For the diesel-ness of

The diesel

And when we say that

Compared to some of the trucks

I grew up around

It was a very, very nice

Experience

She just didn't like the smell

Of the exhaust

Or of the fuel

Which there's a little really hard to

Have that

I love the smell of diesel in a cold morning

Oh my god

If they could make cologne out of that

I'd absolutely wear it

You may only attract yourself though

The best part is my wife tolerates these things

That I play with

Tolerates

She just really likes you

I know

She's weird

I don't want to kick the dead horse

Any more than that

But I do think it's valuable

And I had mentioned it loosely

With

My international

That has a lot to do with cylinder

Sleeve design

Additionally newer

Modern diesels

Requiring less

Of the preheat situation

Or none at all

Some of these tractors

Some of these small diesel engines

That's not to be spoken for for the older ones

Where that

Conversation

Transcends is then they need to have

Maximum

Voltage supply

From your electrical system

And

This is super valuable

In

Extreme cold temperatures

You may

Kind of

Make worse

A failing or dying battery

There's no question

It's going to be worse because

As we alluded to earlier

That electrical load

And robustness of that battery

Is going to be diminished

When the temperature drops

So if you have an ailing

Or old battery

It's going to show itself more

Which is why

Coldest day

Every year

If you go like a Sam's club

Or

Automotive place there's going to be people

Backed up buying batteries

Because we are a response

Society now

We don't plan, we respond

All the car barely started

Or it didn't start

So now I have to today

On the worst day

Which I've been there

I may or may not have been sitting

In a Sam's club parking lot

Putting a battery in my wife's car

Years ago

There was a line to have it installed

With some ridiculous saying

So I got them to allow me to do

The installation and still get the warranty

Because they were so pressed for time

I was like

I can do that

So I get it

But

Test your stuff

Look at it

Make sure that your batteries are up to snuff

Because you need them to be

We know factually that a weak battery

Overnight

In cold or subzero temperatures

Can lose 50% of its capacity

And that a

That's actually expected

Right, right

That's expected for a weak battery

For a new battery 10-20% loss

Over night in those temperatures

So kind of put that in perspective

If your battery has a

CCA of 800

Which is actually pretty high

That means you have 400 CCA now

To actually start the vehicle

And CCA is cold cranking

Amperage

Or amps

And that's the first time you hit the key

Every time you try

It's going down

Correct

And so ultimately you're hitting that key

And it's sending a signal to your starter

And the starter now

Is cold and unhappy

In its current position

Because it is not actually frozen

But it is sitting there

If you have other things plugged in as well

Overnight

The dash cams that people are using

All night 24 hours

That will also put a load on the battery

Normal conditions

That's probably not a big deal over time

But when it's cold

It's going to suck that battery power down

Even more

All of this

Is part of that starter conversation

The starter is unhappy

And now it's requiring

Even more voltage

Those electrical components are requiring

Even more voltage

Because there is a higher resistance

And we could get into

Actual electrical

Specifications

You just need to know there's higher resistance

Because of the cold

Your cables start to corrode

Over time

All of that adds more electrical load

To the starter

With an example first

The eco-diesels do have a bigger battery

With the JLs and the JTs

And you can install that larger battery

Into your regular JTs

And JLs

And JKs

With that said

The reason our JPs

Currently have two batteries

Is because now we have double

Whatever the ratings are

They combine

It's like Captain Planet all over again

Wow

Try not to break out in the song

I'll be honest with you

So anyway, when you've gone in

And that little battery has wronged you

And you don't like the start stop

And someone told you

That you removed the little battery

And your start stops in the stop working

Which is false

And now you've removed the little battery

And you still have your smallest top battery

And

You suddenly have the worst weather

You've seen in ten years

And your Jeep doesn't start

That's your fault

Because as part of

Our Jeep's work

There is now a degree

Of checks and balances

Electrically

That immediately happens

Again, we go back to that older model

The battery supplies voltage to

The starter

The starter might be unhappy

The engine might be slower to turn over than usual

But realistically

It's a mechanical action

Once I get that mechanical action running

The alternator take over

And fill that battery back up

In our modern engine

It's just had a epiphany

What happened is we got spoiled

From 91 to

06

And we just had a very simple

Kind of rudimentary, robust vehicle

And we've

Got in our heads that all vehicles are that way

Which is not the case

I think it's the people who hit their

Stride, right?

I think that's the hardest part

Is that people who were getting their driver's license

And learning about vehicles

In that time frame

Is where the

Challenge presents itself at the most

Because in 07 it starts to get a little more

Complex and by, you know, the currently

Are JKs, current JK

And JLJT production

When that initial electrical

Signal happens

Not only is it starting the engine

But it's waking up the computer

And it's having to go through a complete series

Of checks and balances with all these

Sensors, with all these modules

You need lots

Of electricity to do that

Where the early

4-liter HO series was pretty much

Like two guys on two hilltops

Going, hey, you okay over there?

And it was like, yep, okay, start

Go ahead, that's pretty

Shit

So I just want to jump back to the comment real quick

Because Red commented, well crap, that happened to mine

With a junk brand new battery

And there is something to be said about the quality

Of the battery as well as the age of the battery

Well, and that's why these

Kind of these talking points regarding cold cranking

Amperage and reserve capacity

And talking, you bringing up

Your conversation

Regarding the

Dose batteries

With the big battery and the small battery

The big battery is your primary start battery

Right? The big

Challenge we have, much like the eco-diesels

And the grand and the

1500s being less than desirable

The initial

Small auxiliary batteries

Were

You know, left something to be desired

They came parasitic and they ate off the big battery

Leaving you stranded in your

Relatively two, three year old vehicle

Not to mention modern day battery technology

Is not what it once was

Pre-COVID

Whatever happened

It broke the battery industry

I don't know what was happening federally

At or before COVID

But COVID broke

The battery industry and I'm not sure

What regulatory processes happened

Again, 18, 19, 20

But batteries have never been

Good again, right? And I need you

I stand on my soapbox

Take that to the cleaners

Somebody prove me wrong

Tell me why that is

Tell me why batteries are good now

I don't know but they haven't been

With that said

We need all of that

Extra capacity

To run the checks and balances

To start the starter to do all that stuff

What happens when we don't have it

And that is obviously why we're going to address

This for one of our listeners

We're almost to the point now

With current vehicles where a battery tender

Is more important than a block heater

Stinkin' men

All of that

The battery being a tipty top shape

And maintained

Is pretty much your most

Important thing

Especially with all of the sensitivities

Of the newer system

And you think about my truck

It's a 21JT Rubicon

I

Because it's me

I started from my window

Immediately

The route of frosters on

No lies detected

The seat turns on

The steering wheel turns on

It goes on the full blast

On the blower motor

All of that

Is extra load

On that electrical system

Just started

So

Yeah

We're asking things of battery systems

That we've never had before

And as you mentioned

Our first and foremost recommendation

For anyone who has the capacity

To do this

Is a smart

On-board battery

Tender charger

We specifically

Utilize the

Hashtag not sponsored

The Noco 2.0

Genious series onboard tender

Noco, if you want to

Slide in the Jeffries DMs

We're open for it, right?

I can't begin to tell you

How many of our

Still have the pictures

How many of our customers

Joe Berlo's got some good pictures

I don't need to see

How many of our customers

We have installed this specific battery tender on

And as you mentioned, I'm just reiterating it

I far more believe the value

Of that particular unit than a block heater

For a vast majority of people

Yeah

And to mention though

Because I've been working with

Red and he's commenting

This becomes a challenge

Because Red lives in a space

Where he does not have access

To plugging in his vehicle

And so

There then presents a challenge

And I know that the angry turtle

Once lived

In a, you know, a space

Where he could not

Run an extension cord out to his

Vehicle, it just was

You know, not permissible

By the area that he lived in

And so that

Becomes incredibly challenging

We then have to kind of protect

Our best interests

With that

I am, I need you to know

I'm a moke

Oh my gosh, I need a moke

I need a moke a lot there

I am a NoCo fanboy

And the NoCo jump packs

Are

Amongst our preferred

You know, jump pack operation

Now that is

A

Lithium Ion

Based, small

Compact, big voltage

Jump pack

USB charged

Yeah, there's a bunch of

Value to those jump packs

I am very confused

By your standard

Suitcase, briefcase

Jump pack that's still sold

At the, you know, box stores

Today

New stuff is scary

Yeah, that's weird

And that one has a battery in it

So they feel better

It has like a lead acid

Like a lot more battery

Yeah, some type of

I don't know, I can't

Ask battery

The little battery in your vehicle is not okay

Yeah, that's weird to me

I don't understand that

It's lost on me

And so

It's valuable

And part of this conversation

And just for the listener

Who requested this

The conversation is

Utilizing

A jump pack, or jumper cables

Because we still jump

In an efficient way that does not

Fry the sensitivities of our system

And I feel like

You just made a trigger moment

Because I remember newer driver

Had jumper cables

Didn't know how to use them

Red is positive

Black is negative

Don't put red to black

Nope, things will go

Bad real fast

So can kill both vehicle batteries

And the jumper cables

And I've seen them on fire

The challenge, you know

Today I actually jumped a jeep

Dead as a doornail in our parking lot

Showed up last week at the end of the week

Probably Thursday or something

I don't know how it got here

But it's dead as a doornail

And I popped the hood to jump it

You didn't know jeeps just randomly

Pop up in our parking lot now

Like a teleportation thing

So challenging

There was no red

And there's no black

Now this is something

That the jeep owner

May or may not have done

Based on the fact that they've replaced

Some things

Then you look for the plus which is red

And the slash which is negative

Correct and that's the value

Arguably I've never seen a battery

That did not have the

Molded negative or positive

The battery might be dirty

You might have to excavate it under some grime

But if you are unsure

You need to explicitly

Verify

That

I think it's also important to note too

With the jump packs

It's more specific

To have the red to red and black to black

On older vehicles if you're using

Jumper cables

As long as the same one went to the same one

It was fine

So if you put black on positive on one vehicle

Black better be on positive on the other vehicle

And vice versa

That is fair

We don't recommend that folks

Sick with red and black it's easier

With the jump back conversation

And part of my reassurance

To those of you who maybe don't have

A jump pack as part of

Your onboard

Tool kit

Is that

The no-cos and a number of the

New

Smart jump packs

I'll be honest Harbor Freight even sells a no-co

Knockoff, Amazon sells them

Whatever

If you put them

Black to positive

And red to negative

It yells at you

It won't allow you

To fry your battery

Or to fry yourself

They don't want to test it though

I was going to say I would trust

Some of the more advanced ones

But some of the cheaper ones that you find on Amazon

They may not actually be that smart

They say they are

And that is a

Smart source

We are relying on a bit of

A computer chip control

Knowledge

That that little unit has

I just got to call out Rob

He's been behind the conversation this whole time

I think Rob's internet

Is lagging

Rob do you need coffee

It's all the wood he chopped up

On the mountaintop there

We're just playing in the background

And he's just kind of dwayning

And sporadically

He's too busy building this bumper

That's right

So as far as that

Smart

The smart jump pack technology

Now there is older

Jump pack technology

The briefcase ones that I was talking about

Or the big rolly cart ones

That you can absolutely flip a switch

And if you are hooked up

Incorrectly

Things are going to go south very fast

Yep

And so while

Best case scenario we encourage you

To

To be conscientious

To identify the red and the black cables

To find the positive and the negative cables

And I'll just give you my PSA

From my dad

You hook up the positive first

And you then hook up the negative and you do the reverse

I don't know why

The piece

I had a Chevy Impala

I just

This is the God's honest truth

That would not jump start

If I hooked up

The ground cable

Direct to battery

I needed to hook it up to a good ground

On the chassis

I had this car for almost

A decade

And it would not jump start

If I went battery to battery

It is a Chevy Impala for you

And so my piece with that

Is

Don't be afraid to

If you're not getting a good jump start

Either jump pack

Or vehicle to vehicle

To go ahead and wiggle

Those cables a little bit

The actual alligator clips

That are in your hands are on

That are part of the jump pack

To ensure that you have a good strong

Bite out of them

To the electrical components themselves

And something else just flashed in my head

I saw someone trying to jump start

Something that was on the video

And some sparks happened

And they were bound determined

They were going to get electrocuted

No can't

It's 12 volts

It's not going to electrocute you

The only thing is the coil

And there are new coil pack vehicles

That's really hard to get

Even zapped by

That has nothing to do with this conversation

So don't be concerned about that

As long as we're going

The worst thing is

If you do switch those jumper cables

And don't jump start it with 110

Oh god

I watched that

And I think it's like AI

Or somebody trolling

If you do sparky sparky

It's okay just remove the cables

Kind of expeditiously

The thing is they will

Weld themselves

Underhood welding is always fun

That is not recommended

So have some confidence

Have some reserve

And recognize that

It's okay we don't need to panic

And go wild and crazy

With the alligator clips in our hands

I will give the further

PSA on my fanboydom

I had

Went to move

A jeep

That's in my possession or a jeep of mine

And it has probably been sitting

Off and on for

I don't know two months or so

And in it is one of my

No-co jump packs

And it's just kind of sitting

Honestly my son and I took it

To when we went west

To Las Vegas probably the last time I know that

I used it

So early November that jump pack has been sitting here

I would have topped it off

It's important that you keep

It's in my opinion you keep your batteries maintained

And topped off

Again that's what the battery

Manufacturing technology

Desires to see

And expects

It expects a topped off battery so I come in

After I've used these things

I plug them back in and I top them off

This is not NICAD technology

If that reference is lost on you

I'm sorry we don't have time to expand on this

In this program

But I top it off I've left it in there

It's gone through all winter

I hit the power button

I was like I wonder what this is

Over the weekend

Fully charged

Last piece of this conversation

With the smart jump pack technology

The biggest complaint

I see with people

Is that

They'll put it on

And the battery is a stone

It has a bad cell

It's a problematic battery

And that the jump pack

Does not want to

Play nice with it

It's the best way to put it

They don't really want you to say hi

Just so you know

Oh hey buddy boy

That's my son

Saying hi on the program

He's watching in as well

My son knows how to jump start a vehicle

Fortunately

For multiple reasons

How many times has he had to jump start

For multiple reasons

Everybody in our family should be equipped

Let's finish this

No

So

That was

There is an override

There is a way to override the smart technology

Of those jump packs

And each jump pack is going to be different

And that is

People put it on and the jump pack stops blinking at them

And they're like well now what do I do

There is actually an override button

For the no-cos

You push it and you hold it

And it will force

Voltage into the system

But when you have that happen

Your battery is really not healthy

Your battery is not healthy

And this is when you can

If hooked up incorrectly

You can cause further damage

And so it's not no-cos fault that your battery is junk

That's the situation

So in these extreme and cold temperatures

I hope there was something there you found of value

I think we're going to have to actually do an episode

On battery technology

Because there's a lot of questions and comments

Especially with the ox battery

And workarounds if the ox battery is dead

Zach brought that up

Charging your battery

How long does it take to drive

These are all questions we're going to have to answer

In another episode

Yeah and I know that

One of our new

Watchers, listeners had jumped on

And asked about our preferred battery technology

I'd love to expand upon that

Because

Just factually

Not all batteries

Are created equal

And there is a price difference

For a reason

The battery that you buy

The bottom end, the value craft

Battery at AutoZone

Or the Walmart battery

Is affordable

For a reason

If it says value on the battery

Panic

And that's not to say that

You cannot find an economical battery

But

And like we said earlier

Just because it was good

I don't know 10 years ago

Doesn't mean it's good today either

Totes

I think we've got a podcast

Topic in the making

And we will

Look forward to expanding upon that further for folks

If you have any further

Pressing questions

You can reach out to us at contact

C-O-N-T-A-C-T

At s-f-j-4-x-4

Dot com

Or just go to the s-f-j-4-by-4 dot com

Fill out the

Contact form submission and it'll send in to us

And we can help expand upon that

Either in email or

On air for you next time

Until next time

Jeep on

If You're Cold, They're Cold

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fuel filter

block heater

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diesel

glow plugs

Mazda 3

Chevrolet S10 Blazer

Jeep JTDR

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Jeep JL

Jeep JT

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O2 sensors

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blow by

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heated mirrors

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